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Ottawa mulls random roadside tests for drunk driving

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CTV News Channel: Jonathan Rosenthal, lawyer
A criminal lawyer explains the motivation behind the feds considering making sweeping changes to drunk driving legislation, including tougher penalties for repeat offenders and allowing random breathalyzer tests on Canadian roads.
CTV Edmonton: Federal plan for random breathalyzer tests strike a chord
Reaction has been fast and furious on a controversial plan by the Harper government could give police the right to conduct random roadside breathalyzer tests

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Mar. 12 2010 10:35 AM ET

The federal government is considering making sweeping changes to drunk driving legislation, including tougher penalties for repeat offenders and allowing random breathalyzer tests on Canadian roads.

The Justice Department has released a discussion paper on the proposed changes, seeking the input of provincial officials, interest groups and the public on 20 suggested amendments to the sections of the Criminal Code dealing with impaired driving and related charges.

The law has been amended at least 12 times since Parliament first criminalized drunk driving in 1921, including four times in the past 10 years alone, resulting in a confusing legal hodge-podge.

"These many amendments have created a part of the Criminal Code that is very difficult to understand," said the report, posted on the federal Justice Department Web site. "Indeed, the Law Reform Commission … in 1991 wrote that some of the provisions had even then ‘become virtually unreadable'."

The government is proposing recasting the law entirely, making drunk driving just one part of a new section of the Criminal Code dealing with all transport-related offences, including street racing and dangerous driving charges.

The new section would cover a total of seven charges: Criminal negligence (including street racing); flight from police; dangerous operation of a vehicle; impaired driving; refusing to give a breathalyzer sample; leaving the scene of an accident; and driving while disqualified

"Instead of creating separate offences where there is bodily harm or death, these could be addressed by increased penalties," the paper noted.

But the most contentious recommendation will likely be random roadside tests to nab drunk drivers, a measure recommended by a Commons committee last summer and which Justice Minister Rob Nicholson has said he favours.

Civil libertarians oppose random testing as a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantee against unreasonable search and seizure.

The group Mothers Against Drunk Driving however, is a strong supporter of such random testing, saying action is needed because progress in catching drunk drivers has stalled over the past decade.

"Millions of Canadians continue to drink and drive because they can do so with little fear of being stopped, let alone charged and convicted," MADD said in a study released last July. "Canada has one of the poorest impaired driving records among comparable developed democracies, even though most of those countries have far higher rates of per capita alcohol consumption."

Canada's current legislation dictates police can only administer breathalyzer tests if they have a reasonable suspicion of drunk driving, usually through roadside sobriety tests.

But the federal paper noted that "some studies have shown that many drivers with illegal (breath alcohol levels) succeed in getting through roadside checks."

The Justice Department recommends random testing as a way of catching more drunk drivers, citing studies from Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland where deaths due to drunk driving accidents decreased by as much as 36 per cent after it was introduced.

"Random Breath Testing has had such remarkable results that in 2004 the European Union recommended that it be a part of every EU nation's traffic safety measures," the federal study concluded.

The government is open to input on the proposed changes until April 30.

Comments are now closed for this story

Glenn C
said

I think that it is a good move. We have got to cut down on the amount of people killed by drunks!! Bringing the limit down to .05, random testing and having your vehicle towed would be a good start!!! Long prison terms wouldn't hurt either.


Simon
said

I am all for it.


Mike
said

Whats next? Random knocks on doors to see if you're smoking weed?? This flies in the face of your rights to privacy !!!


Pip
said

I wonder if it could be considered that, since drivers hold a permit issued by a government, that un reasonable search and seizure would not apply? Both vehicle and driver are required by law to be safe; a random breathalyser test would then be just like a random vehicle safety stop, and the latter have not been challenged, as far as I know. I'm rather glad that such random stops take potentially unsafe vehicles off the road - a certain brand of rental truck comes to mind - and feel that doing the same to licensees and removing potentially dangerous drivers is reasonable. Of more concern, though, is the fact that past tinkering has made the current laws virtually unreadable. We should have a public iquiry to determine if ALL Canada's laws should be examined and clarified. Such a commission would increase demand for legal professionals and staff, thus contributing to higher employment, and satisfy the demands of NDP and Liberals that something be done about employment ;-)


Angus mac
said

This is a good idea and should make roads safer.If possible also throw out the Charter that has given so many criminals loop holes to avoid being found guilty.


BG YYC
said

Random tests…don’t we have that already with road side check points? Drinking and driving is still way out of control 25 years after the first big push to have drivers take the issue seriously. In my mind we need to push our politicians to change the law so that people listen up and take the issue seriously. First offence you lose your license for at least six months, no if and or buts Second offence is mandatory jail time, Third strike, life time ban on driving any type of motorizes vehicle, several years of jail. Only when we make the consequences really in your face, will people ask themselves do I want to take the risk!


Mead
said

Random tests are illegal. Say no to random tests. What's next - random search of homes, where they kick down your door looking for drugs or weapons? Or throw you up against the wall when you are walking outside to random search you for illegal items you might be carrying.Random searches are crazy and an infringement of the rights of law abiding citizens. If a law abiding citizen gets tested - who should compensate the innocent victim for the time and embarrassment for the public humiliation in assuming he was drunk?


Ian
said

Bring on tougher laws. By no means do I consider a non drinker, however it infuriates me aroiund Holiday season when radio stations broadcast where roadblocks are being set up. Perhaps a ban on that activity as well as increased random testing will prove positive. Let's also throw in lower blood alcohol levels, raise the legal age of drinking and really enforce the law when it comes to penalties. I have no use for those who get off with a slap on the wrist and those who are repeat offenders.


B. Kelley, Ontario
said

Consolidating and clarifying current legislation makes good sense. Harsher penalties for impaired driving, especially for repeat offenders, should also prove to be effective. However, giving police the authority to randomly stop vehicles and force breathalyser tests without having reasonable cause is a dangerous way to go. It may prove effective but passing such legislation on the basis of the end justifying the means is another step toward the much feared police state mentality. One of the basic tenets of our legal system has always been that police authorities must have reasonable cause to believe that a crime is being committed before they can stop and question or test anyone. Otherwise, whatever evidence they might collect cannot be used. That principle protects you and I from being singled out on nothing more substantial than a police officer's whim. If this dangerous initiative can be justified then so can allowing police to randomly enter our homes without cause on legal fishing trips just to see what they might find there. Some will argue that such invasive measures would deter law-breaking and save lives and they're probably right but it would be at the cost of yet another chunk of our liberty.


Shawn
said

I'm not a lawyer or anything but if the Government states that drivers can be given a breathalyzer at random how does that still constitute "illegal search and seizure"? Would that not be the same as check stops? They don't stop all cars at check stops, so it seems random as it is. Stop giving these pricks more loop holes to get out of a charge. End of the day you're drunk, and driving a car you should loose your license for a year, and a big fine. Second offence... loose it for life, do not pass go, go directly to jail! I believe in second chances. No third chances!


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

As an ideological libertarian who votes "conservative" for practical political reasons (liberals are usually left-leaning weenies who don't employ a credible or intelligent compass), I can't support a federal government measure that precipitates a needless provincial intrusion into the lives of the people. The whole underpinning argument behind random roadside testing of "saving one life" is only a reasonable justification for ignorant pinheads willing to sacrifice whatever "freedom" fought for (and claimed), at the leisure of the state. This is rather outrageous and entirely dangerous. Just because law enforcement would love the latitude doesn't make it a sound idea. As for MADD, their credibility vanished years ago when they became a radicalized anti-alcohol crusader-group. As for the EU throwing basic principles of liberty out the window in a collective fit of wrongheaded political "do-gooding," no surprise. (European legislators are seldom able to think straight.) Addressing the legal mechanics of, and punishments for, established crimes related to drinking and driving, or driving recklessly, is welcomed. Granting law enforcement the ability to pull anyone over, for no apparent reason, is without welcome. I hope Canadians fight back with all their might; as this is more important than changing a word or two in the National Anthem for the sake of gender neutrality...and look how bent out of shape we got over that. Come on, folks.


Mark
said

I'm all for catching drunk drivers and really stiffening the sentences given to them, but I'm totally against random testing. The police have to have a suspicion of drunk driving before administering the test. Random testing without suspicion of a law being broken is a violation of civil rights. The problem with tougher sentencing laws is that judges refuse to enforce them to the full extent. Instead many judges give the minimum sentence.


Robyn in Toronto
said

If drinking and driving can cause bodily harm, maiming and death, allowing random breathalyzer tests on Canadian roads is not an invasion of privacy or human rights, it's a law and measure to use to protect the general public and isn't that our goal?If studies in Australia, New zealand and Ireland show a decrease in deaths due to drinking and driving by as much as 36 percent... what are we in Canada waiting for? Let's do it. This is a preventative measure. We should have started this years ago. How many people have to die first before we finally make this the standard?"Instead of creating separate offences where there is bodily harm or death, these could be addressed by increased penalties" does scare me though. Unless the penalties are laid out in no uncertain terms, based on the damage suffered by victims, this can end up being a loop hole for many, i.e. based on a suspect's clout in the community. I'd feel much better knowing there were hard and fast rules regarding the penalties. I can envision one person getting 5 years for killing someone, another getting 10 years for the same thing and someone else getting off lightly with no jail time at all and that wouldn't be fair.


Kevin in Edson Alberta
said

Random stops for no reason is Bunk! What is next? Random home searches in the name of drugs and piracy? A very slippery slope once started. Stiffen the penalties. Ban driving for .08 for life. It is a privilege, not a right. Jail drunks who kill people in DUI collisions for 10 years or more as if they murdered them. I mean, what's the difference if they shot them or killed them as a result of being drunk? We all know better. Stop giving out these traditional weenie sentences, if any at all. The laws already exist to allow officers to pull over drivers for weaving, driving too slow or too fast. Road side check points. They already have the powers they need. Courts just need to start handing out the proper sentences for the crimes. Same old lack of justice problems. So if the Fed wants to make mandatory minimums because the judges don't have the guts to perform their responsibilities, they have my support on that part. But a resounding NO!! to even more power to the police on this one.


Dave- Toronto
said

You live in a regular neighbourhood. Most likely someone is doing something illegal in their house. How would you feel if police came randomly to your house whenever you wanted to do random searches. Totalitarian states did this and thats what's going to happen if we allow random stops. A drunk drive is a drunk driver, these won't stop them, instead it infriges in our rights that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms allows us to have.


Patrick
said

Sorry Mike, if you want to get wasted and stoned in your own house, fine with me, and the Government has no place there, but once your drunken stupor decides to take a drive down the street, your now in the public domain. Congratulations to a common sense law for once and I hope it passes!


Joe
said

This is not an invasion of Privacy as Public roads are not a private place and your expectation to prviacy is nil. This is equivalent to saying that looking through the window of your car is a violation of you privacy. They should ammend the Driver's License itself to include acceptance of Random Searches. You don't want to be searched, don't drive! It's not a right to drive, it's a privelage to do so and must be done so safely.


Gilberto
said

***But the federal paper noted that "some studies have shown that many drivers with illegal (breath alcohol levels) succeed in getting through roadside checks.***Hmmm I think what they should do is have the police administer random Driving School Tests to all drivers on the road.


Joe
said

For those that think this is the equivalent of kicking in your door at home are missing the point. You are in a public place while operating your vehicle, not your home, and this legislation is about protecting the public from people who don't care about you rights to begin with.


Scott
said

As a non-drinker I abhore the idea of being stopped for random checks. This is becoming more of police state, where rights are becoming more and more eroded. Already the police have the right to stop a driver, take away the vehicle, suspend the licence right on the spot, without any judge or jury. Some say as an innocent driver, one should have no fear, however I have seen/been in countries like Russia, Mexico where the police can do as they damn well please. Giving police more rights, why would it not also happen here.


RealityCzech
said

Mike said: "Whats next? Random knocks on doors to see if you're smoking weed?? This flies in the face of your rights to privacy !!!"Drunk driving and smoking illegal drugs are two very different things. In the case of drunk driving, the right to privacy clearly must be trumped by my right to life!


Phil
said

Entire generations of people who are intelligent enough not to drive drunk still don't know when they have had too much because there is ZERO effort to educate people who aren't drunk. How long should I wait after having a couple of beers or a glass of wine with a meal? If I have several drinks in the evening, how will I know that I'm good to drive the next day? MADD and others have dropped the ball for decades by not answering these questions. "Drinking and driving is bad"...thanks...that's really informative!


Rolluptherimtolose
said

MAJOR infringement of our rights. I can already see the police abusing this law big time. They'll pull you over for a speeding ticket and then just for the heck of it they will issue a breathalizer, and we will have no option to refuse. MADD is an organization that is full of it, they are only self interested and we should all think critically about the stats they are using to prop themselves up. Drunk driving is a serious issue no doubt, but the infringement of every citizens rights should not be an option in combating this issue.


Jay, Ottawa
said

I don't care for the idea of having to prove that I'm not doing anything wrong when there is no reason to suspect I am.


johnnyjack
said

A law like this would give police far too much power. Moderate drinkers are not the problem. It's the drunk drivers with readings of .20 and above that are causing accidents.


Spongebob, Bikini Bottom
said

Prof. Pye Chartt said "As an ideological libertarian who votes "conservative" for practical political reasons (liberals are usually left-leaning weenies who don't employ a credible or intelligent compass), " >> Haha, does anyone else see the logical fallacy here? Maybe it was intentional.


simon in Montreal
said

Anf if you are caught driving Drunk and Speeding twice over the speed limit and in possession of Cacaine, the Maximum Penalty will be $500.00.


Smith
said

Random assumption of committing a crime? This is disgusting to think that Canadians would put up with Guilty before proven Innocent tactic. There should be absolutely no legal way to detain, question, or test Canadians without proper PROBABLE CAUSE!


charlie
said

"Civil liberties groups" (unnamed) are against this initiative, although the article quotes no one. Given their vested interest, that's not a surprise, I guess. Seeing some of the tortured logic that is often used by defence lawyers to classify police and other enforcement actions as "unreasonable" in the court process as counsel seeks to have a client "beat the rap" (oops, sorry, "give an accused the best posible defence") is disheartening to those seeking "justice". Could this focus on proceedure rather than principle be one of the reasons why so many people have lost faith in the justice system in this country? Justice, as opposed to law - and they are not the same despite any best efforts to make that so - is not always done in court. We have seen another example of that recently in a high profile matter. The carnage caused by drunk and otherwise impaired drivers is enormous - and stopping it should be supported by all citizens. I wonder how many relatives of those killed or seriously injured by drunk drivers will see these proposed measures as "unreasonable" infringements on the rights their fellow citizens? I don't feel these to be unreasonable, and I have not had a personal loss. The SCC has long ago ruled that random CheckStops are not unreasonable under the Charter - this is just the formal law catching up. Perhaps we should consider that some other "unreasonable" infringements might be in order to stop shootings in broad daylight on major streets in our cities which kill innocent bystanders?


Gerry
said

Its a good move however the NDP and the CBC will not like it.


realist
said

Patrick: I agree with you 1000% If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. Your stop will be quick and painless. If you anti-check people want to be mad at someone, don't be mad at the government, be mad at the people around you continue to drive drunk and make these checks necessary. I am happy to be stopped randomly on occassion if it increases the chances of getting a few more drunks off the road each day.


Rob
said

Believe me I am totally against impaired driving but the impetus should be against repeat offenders receiving much stiffer penalties.


John
said

GO FOR IT!Three years ago the vehicle I was driving was hit by a drunk driver. I came out of it with a torn rotator cuff. I have had an operation but there is still a lot of pain. Does the law just have to include alcohol? What about drugs...including the mis-use of prescription and over-the-counter drugs?I speak for the millions of people in North America who have had a similar experience.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

I'm waiting for the day the Ontario government runs a 30-second LCBO (Liquor Communism Board of Ontario) ad spot for party booze during "Holiday Cheer" season and allocates part of the spot towards reminding people not to drink and drive (contrary to implicit, self-interested encouragement)...because provincial and municipal police will be combing the roadways, "randomly" pulling over anyone who rubs them the wrong way, based upon driver/passenger appearance or type of car driven.


Michael, Cambridge On
said

How about ban driving to bars... If any people seen walking from car to bars should be fined.. Searching people for keys at bars then confiscated them just until morning. How about no parking policy at bars? How about no bars on roadside out of nowhere which people will have to drive... relocate them to city only or designated area.How about more checkpoint around the bars area by policesDesignated Driver should be wearing wrist brace which will singled them out and if they got caught drinking then they will be fined.Many ideas... How come we still actively supporting the concept of driving to bars the place where you are getting drunk!


LDL in ONT
said

Just as a comparison, on your return from leaving the country, Canada Border Services will randomly search your luggage or vehicle and I don't hear anyone complaining about their rights. It's a part of life that we accept because we recognize that ultimately it is for our own safety and for the greater good. So why the indignation when it comes to something far more tangible? Meaning we all know impaired drivers have, and potential could, kill someone. I couldn't imagine you would hear any disagreement to random checks from anyone who has lost a loved one to this crime.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

@ Joe: By logical extension, Joe, I guess you would support the idea of being stopped at random, and searched or tested, while walking along a public sidewalk. Brilliant.


Sheila
said

Why don't we just give up all our rights and live in a communist dictatorship. I'm not impressed with the government on this one.


Alan
said

Hmmm, the last time I checked, driving a motor vehicle in this country is not a right. Bring in random checks, we already have it with Check Stops. Bring in very strong punishments. You get caught drinking and driving, you don't drive again for LIFE, because that is what you may take if you smash into some poor schmuck. As a victim of drunk driving, I've seen first hand the stupidity in plea agreements and having charges reduced to make this more expedious in the courts. I fear that many of the people who are too weak to change the laws are afraid they will be caught themselves after a few drinks too many. Grow up people and take responsibility for your own actions!


Doug # BC
said

Well,I'm not a fan of government intrusions into out live.But,for one thing,what constitutes the "reasonable cause" ? Is the smell of beer enough to meet that criteria? Is erratic driving,or even one improper maneuver in traffic good enough? As to the Intrusion,in BC we already have road blocks.Isn't that an intusion in itself ? Having already "intruded" on what some call our "rights",it does seem that the next step,a breath test,is reasonably justifiable if it gets a drunk off the road. A couple of things bother me a lot more than being required to do the breathalizer. One being suggestions that the blood alcohol level be reduced.MADD once said it should be reduced to "zero".Some legislators have offered other numbers ranging from .02 to .05.In my opinion that doesn't address the problem if research done to date suggests that most people are capable of driving safely up to the level of .08. Police will nab the two beer guy while the real drunks will not change. The matter of consequences.In a nation that doesn't puinish drug dealers and rapists who attack our kids,we need to proceed with caution.The left always states that there is no evidence that stiffer penalties reduce crime.I suspect that would be the case here.As it is now,the consequences fro DUI have become severe enough,that drinkers now find fleeing the scene their best option.At the very least,leaving the scene must be more criminal that the infraction itself.Otherwise,a driver facing the runination of his/her life,will take the risk,and run. The object of the game is not to jail a whole lot of people.It's to get people to stop drinking and driving.We will need some creative thinking if we are to succeed.Criminal law on it's own,will never do the trick.


Gord
said

Drinking and Driving is a brutal crime that the majority of us have committed. I love reading the holier than thou comments above. Everyone is so self righteous until they are caught. Then, these very same people who espouse "throw the book at them" try every trick in the book to slither their way out of trouble. The laws we have are enough. Soon, we will all have criminal records for having a glass of wine. I say no to random violations of my rights and yes to stronger enforcement of existing laws.


Mike
said

I am really happy to see that people see this for what it is, a loss of privacy and a return to a Police State. The RVCA wanted the legal right to randomly search peoples property without obtaining permission from the landowner. This was squashed even before it got started. This random searching is the same thing and gives the police way too much power.


Dave, Ottawa
said

I'm on the fence on this one... on the one hand, I do not believe that police should be able to stop, question or test anyone at any time without probable casue, and that includes "RIDE" checks. On the other hand, I recognize that driving a motor vehicle is a licenced activity to which certain conditions can be attached. So long as the "random" testing is limited to properly organized RIDE checks, I suppose this is ok. But it should not give cops the ability to just pull you over on a whim while you are driving down the street, minding your own business and obeying the law. That is a very slippery slope leading to "May we see your papers, please?" and "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."


HowBouThat
said

Remember this. Once the Police pull u over, they can search your car and you. They will use this law as an excuse to pull over anyone the want whenever they want.The east side of the Iron Curtain worked just like that.


GHW
said

Sounds like a step toward a police state like Nazi Germany. Why not just make alcohol illegal. Killing people on the road is only a small portion of the damage it does to our society overall. I personally would rather live with the current level of risk on the road rather than give up my freedom. What are we becoming, a bunch of mindless servants to the state just for the sake of small amount of personal safety. Life is full of risk all around us every day. Reasonable rules are okay but life is not all about being safe. Our current laws are adequate and suitable. There is a balance between imposing rules on the population and preserving personal freedom. I for one think this crosses the line.


Pierre
said

Slippery slope! No need for reasonable suspicion for being stopped, and tomorrow: maybe knocking on your door to insist on seeing what you've been downloading on your computer? You don't get my vote on this one. The lattitude given to law enforcement at the moment seems to be enough for me to sleep comfortably at night or drive on our roads. Lets not forget that drunk drivers do not have it as easy as they used to, everybody can be a cop today with the use of a cell phone to report wobbly driving.


zaitrancer
said

I don't drink and drive; I've also been involved in an accident where our family was hit by a drunk driver swerving around a curve. I have very strong feelings about what should be done to drunk drivers, but I would refuse a random breath test and risk jail time and/or criminal charges to protest and defend the erosion of civil liberties that threaten the basis of democracy.We live in a day and age where people are being lulled into a passive state where they have bought into the concept that giving up civil liberties is worth it for a more secure and safe state. History bears out where that path can ends up.


Narin, Montreal.
said

In stead of improving road infrastructure to reduce the high loaded traffic, our government have an idea to add more harm to the travel delay.


Andrew
said

As someone who never drinks I find this incredibly invasive. If you smell alcohol on someone's breath - great administer the test. If not, you have no right to impose it on those of us who don't drink and drive.


tsktsk
said

This is indeed a slippery slope... While I'm all for safer streets, I totally oppose the notion of random police checks at their discretion.


ED
said

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."Benjamin Franklin


gary joe
said

I am so in on this I think it would be a good idea to start doing them more often because you shouldnt even be drinking and driving in the first place.


MARG MM
said

Obviously we need to get these drunk drivers off the roads, and if random testing will help, I'm all for it. I realize that it seems a " bit over the top" for some, but If you're not drinking and driving, then you have nothing to worry about. As far as suspending licences, we all know that there are hundreds, if not thousands of drivers on the roads with suspended licences. The laws need to be harsher, and they need to be inforced. Anyway,it looks like the Government is asking for a lot of input into this, and it is important that all sides are heard.


M. Cameron
said

What better way to make it less confusing but to change it AGAIN!


morvin
said

Another example of Harper's neo-conservative political strategy. One step forward, two steps back. Who comes up with this unconstitutional crap? MADD no doubt, the neo-prohibitionist zealots that highjacked what was once a responsible and resonable anti-drinking and driving orgranization. And what's next? Ihere Papiere, Bitte? (Your papers. please?).


JRG
said

i belive this is a great idea, people who decide to drink should not drive.


George from Thunder Baqy
said

I like the governments proposal. Impaired driving is a serous criminality and should be treated as such. I would go even further and on the first offence advocate for the one strike and your out rule . Out of your license for 6 months and the loss of your vehicle PERMANTLY! A second offence would mandate a minimum one year jail sentence.and a indefinate suspension of your driving privleges, Too harsh you say? Well might we suggest that if you don't want to suffer the consequences.DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!!


levi
said

I think its a good idea to have the roadside tests to keep drunk drivers off the road and other drivers safe


lc
said

The brain washed sheep keep applauding every time another right is taken away past generations fought and died for.Naked images at airports to protect you from the terrorists,internet tracking to protect you from the pervs.What next will people be bending over.Micro chipping Junior?ID cards containing your life's history? Makes you wonder how many would have been content in the Soviet Union where these tactics were a way of life.


Walt
said

Random is getting closer to a police state! Reasonable and probable grounds are easy! Odour, driving erratically, and roadside checks are all available now. Random means you on your way to the mall, or your wife going shopping, or your family on a trip to anywhere, on your way to or from work. Actual enforcement of the current law would sound good to me. Police don't take the time now to check people leaving the local drinking hole let alone wasting time getting people to blow just because they can.I am all for getting the drunk drivers!


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

People. People. People. If you believe that the combination of alcohol and the operation of a motor vehicle represents such a dreaded lethal threat to society, and that the consequences of same are so utterly frightful and intolerable, then please lobby your government for the mandatory installation (factory and after-market) of pre-ignition breathalyzers in cars, trucks, and motorcycles. Have a single drink; can't start the car; can't drive. Period. If the whole "liberty" thing is lost on you, and you don't care, even though you should, let's carry the "issue" and the prescriptive prevention thereof to the proper end-point, and dispense with all the silly discussion. (This is, after all, what the new MADD, ultimately, wants.)

Paul
said

What is the point of catching more drunk drivers if we are not doing anything about it once they are caught? Forty one percent of all vehicle fatalities are directly from drunk driving. Drinking and driving is premeditated murder.First offence should be at least a permanent loss of drivers license and a jail term.Second offence should be life in prison without parole.Too harsh? Tell that to the families of the 1278 people that were killed by drunk drivers in 2006 and the thousands since.


Annabella
said

What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Random breathalysers fly in the face of this basic principle. If police road checks are not catching those drivers who are driving over the legal limit then they need to find legal ways to perform better screening and better identify those breaking the law. Once they identify those who are breaking the law by driving with a blood alcohol above the legal limit then they may perform a breathalyser. Not taking those initial identification measures and jumping straight to a breathalyser is a gross breech of my civil liberties. No one wants to see drunks on the road but the innoncent should not be punished in a search for the guilty.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said

Remember when Margaret Miller ( president of MADD ) announced that Rahim Jaffer's deal was common occurence. If she knows this, then why doesn't MADD corect the legal system, instead of high fiving the harassment of innocent people. The police caught Jaffer and charged him. It was the system that failed. In short, if you want to correct a problem, look in the right place.

sc
said

I'm all for stricter laws.I wish that it would be "no tolerance" meaning blood alcohol of 0. This would take out the guess work of whether someone is ok to drive after a drink or two.Impaired is impaired...somehow those under the influence of drugs (illegal and prescribed) need to be counted in on the stricter laws too.Random checks are a good start. Tougher laws and penalties also need to be put into place.I'm looking forward to the changes.


John, Halifax, NS
said

Ahh the convict gov't at it again!Let's make a pile of Laws for everyone else, but hey we don't have to follow them eh Jaffer? How's the cocaine Harper....that good? As long as it's not a citizen and just you right?Lookup the word Hyprocrite in the dictionary and you'll find Conservative.Let's randomly tap people's phones, internet, and homes too please. Any other rights you'd like to violate Harper?


kentington, ottawa
said

I am for this specifically because it produces results: a 36% reduction in deaths due to drunk driving. *deaths* I am typically not involved in drunk driving related murders, and have so far been in no position to stop such an occurrence, but if all we have to do to prevent 1/3 of drunk driving related deaths is to get our boys and girls in blue to be more vigilant, I have no problem with that.To those concerned with privacy, I too value privacy and can sympathize. I can appreciate that it is a minority of drunk drivers spoiling things for the rest of us, but a minority of idiots will and have always spoiled various things for the rest of humanity throughout time. Alcohol is a more dangerous drug than it is given credit for. Weed is a less dangerous drug than it is given credit for. Life is not fare, welcome to walking out of the front door every morning.


John, Halifax, NS
said

Angus macsaid This is a good idea and should make roads safer.If possible also throw out the Charter that has given so many criminals loop holes to avoid being found guilty. --------------------------------------------------------------------Throw out the Charter of Rights and Freedoms? WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE? God, natural selection doesn't work fast enough for some of you.


Kevin
said

Drunk driving has always been a concern on the roads and it needs to be stopped. These tests will probably help prevent drunk driving in the future.


John, Halifax, NS
said

It is VERY apparent that CTV news readers do not have the slightest understanding of privacy laws, nor public laws for that matter.Those saying hooray Cons for this, please education yourselves on the laws of the land and stop looking so ignorant. Its' mind-boggling that you people claim to know things and then you open your mouth....in goes the foot, out comes the crap.


rob
said

about time, when do you think that you are ever going to stop drunk driving. when you give the law some teeth. first offence 10 years no if's ands or butts. second life sentence. Maybe then and only then will you get the scum off our roads.that goes for pot heads as well. driving under the influence period should cost you all the material things that you have, and automacticlly you should pay the family's you destroy.including your own. this is the year 2010. lets see our politicians grow some ------- .


Laurie
said

I am against this. I agree we must stop drunk driving and the way to continue to do that is impose even tougher penalties. Random checks are just wrong.


Dina
said

I think it is a good idea, how many times have certain roads been avoided because word got out of a roadside check going on. If they do pass the random stopping they should also dedicate a specific court and judge to handle just DWI offense. The court could be set up on a 1-year contract position. This way offender would be sentenced within 1 month of being charged with DWI and maybe DWI would be taken more seriously. A separate court would avoid DWI cases being thrown out of court due to the length of time offenders had to wait for a hearing.


AFNBSK
said

People are complaining about this being a violation of their rights but if you haven't been drinking and you get stopped and they ask for a breathalyzer you have nothing to fear. I would gladly take randon breathalyzers if meant police would catch more drunk drivers.


amysk
said

No where does it say that they will pull you over with out due reason. This possilbe law implies that if they pull you over for speeding/swerving etc and they cannot tell if you have been drinking, which in some cases (functioning alcoholics, etc) is difficult to tell, they can then administer a breathalyzer. I support it.


Peter
said

The problem I have with this is your giving someone just a little to much control. I have no problem with checking someone or everybody if the police have another reason for pulling a person over ie: driving erratically, speeding. I do have a problem with being pulled over just because the officer feels like it. What is next random searches of someone's home. We still live in a free country and this just doesn't sound like freedom.


Scott ONT
said

I'm really on the fence on this one. Not one to see our civil liberties given away, I can agree with some of the points made by Pye Chart. And right below him, Mark states that police should only be able to pull over those who are driving suspiciously. Well, that's easier said than done. I've occasionally gotten behind the wheel when I'm at the point where I'm questioning whether or not I would blow over. I'm by no means stumbling drunk, nor is my judgement impaired ( in my eyes ) but nonetheless when I take that risk, I drive more cautiously than I normally would just to avoid getting pulled over. This law would probably make me say, you know what, too close to call I'm taking a cab. So I guess in the end, I'm in favor of it because frankly, it's not that big of a deal. Takes only a minute and then you're done. Slightly more inconvenient that the RIDE program, but not much and if in the end it saves a couple lives. It's well worth that minute to me.


Bob,Calgary,Alberta
said

I think this is the first time I have disagreed with Professor Pye Chartt and , indeed, all of the people who say random stops and testing is an infringement on one's rights. When someone gets behind the wheel of an automobile with a valid license one is operating a machine that can "KILL" people and we have had a slew of drunken driving fatalities in my city over the last several years. I see absolutely no problem with ongoing checkstops with consequent testing and charges if warranted. Arguing otherwise is indicative of that stupid logic promulgated by Trudeau and his ilk that individual rights always trump the rights of the collective. NO DRIVER has a right to kill and maim. It's about time that this escalating problem be attacked.


pierre
said

As well as leaving your comment here, write to the PM, your MP and MLA to let them know your views. I'm sure somebody reads these feedbacks for them, but just in case, send your views to the people that are responsible for the laws in your province and country. Thank you to CTV and CBC to providing this space to comment on issues that matter to Canadians.


Bob Simpson
said

Just one more step to a full police state.Special interest groups ie-MADD cant think outside of there little view of the world.The stats given for other countries do not apply in Canada. If they are serious, then require all Citizens to carry ID in some form at ALL TIMES ! The cops can stop you anywhere at anytime in public to force you to produce it. Saves a lot of time all fournd. Welcome to the 4th Riech !


Keith
said

I would rather they spend time and money on more preventative measures. Why not have a mobile breathalyzer unit sit outside a bar and test people as they leave. If they fail, just send them home and not charge them? Or is it more important to make people criminals and pay large fines or sit in jail after the act has been committed (possibly resulting in injury or death)?


Jimmy Twocents
said

My first CTV comment! (Former CBC news site commenter - the last straw was when they completely removed all traces of my comment (it alone vanished), well after it had an agree/disagree ratio over 2:1 and responses....unbelievable bias against those whose opinions do not match the CBC. CBC's loss, CTV's gain, I hope).Anyway, I'm all for coming down hard on those people who decide to drink and drive. However, random stops for a breathalyser test is a step too far. Like others have said...it's a slippery slope. Can we expect to be randomly stopped on the street and patted down as part of the war against terror? Sounds like a good idea to some people, if it'll stop terrorism, until you start to consider all the implications and the fact that laws are quite often used in ways people don't anticipate at first. People should be wary....very wary, of giving up basic rights in order to gain a little security, be it on the road, walking the street, or sitting in your house.


Adam
said

I am against "random" testing. Considering how do they make it random? Is it determined on the spot if you are pulled over? If the officer doesnt like your face or the veichle you drive it could mean a "random" check. If they are to implement this it should be implimented as a mandatory check for everyone. This way every time a person is pulled over they would have to blow a breathalizer... This also eliminates embarassment because it includes everyone... Random is not random when an individual gets to determine who is checked and who is not! The only other problem i can see is the variance of peoples tolerance to alchol... some ppl can be drunk and blow under! In general it still is the judgement of the officer that pulls you over in the first place... the mind boggles!


Dave
said

DaveCollingwoodI'm against it. Why ? The last thing we need to do is provide the Police with more authority to stop and detain members of the public.The Highway Traffic Act already gives the Police the right to stop a vehicle to ensure a person holds a valid license. The police don't need additional authorities to stop a vehicle.If you want to reduce the tragedies caused by drinking and driving then fine. Stop doing things in half measures. If we have a Zero Tolerance for Drinking and Driving then let's make it a zero tolerance. If you consume alcohol and get behind the wheel your guilty. You will be charged and have to face the consequences of your actions. Make the penalties more severe, institute longer driver license suspensions or lifetime bans, jail terms, etc.But the last thing we need is to give the Police more authority, let them use the authority they already have.


LDL in ONT
said

A sub note to all this "slippery slope, police state, loss of liberty" bunk. Random checks seems to be working in parts of the EU to their satisfaction and I'm not hearing that they feel overly oppressed by it. Having said that, I do object to hanging a hat on number. I recognize that some threshold is required. Can we not stick with the established .08. The driver beside me could have a B.A.L. of zero, but is technically impaired from the couple of Tylenol 3's they took.


David, Mississauga
said

A law like this won't survive the first Charter challenge, nor should it.


Chris
said

Yes Mead!! All for it and I would be interested to come to see what's in your home!!! I'm sure we could find something illegal that would put you in jail for few months at least. Whatch out dude!!!...


Dho
said

Welcome to the police state.What happened to innocent till proven guilty?


Doug
said

Conservative party has officially lost my vote. This will only nail the guys who are in the warn range or just over, the hardcore drinkers already avoid these checks like the plague. I think some of you are wrong about thinking what this is, its still the same RIDE checks only now when they ask you if you've had something to drink and you look fine they let you go, now they'll make you do a breath test.


richie cunningham
said

I have a good idea, how about actually sentencing those who do drink and drive to stiffer penalties? As I belive those who drink and drive are also habitual at doing so, numerous people are caught multiple times so actually make them pay, not me. We are walking a very dangerous path with this one, I already seem to feel that my rights are stepped on all the time by special interest groups such as MADD, and the like. This is not my Canada I thought i would have as a child it seems more like the Russia, i would see.


Linda in Vancouver
said

I'm not in favour of this madatory,random test akl all. WHile driving is not a "right" as some people seem to think it is.There must be a better way to deter those who flaunt the laws we now have in place,and do it without undue intrusions into our lives. As to the so called "Charter of Rights and Freedoms,,I woul ditch that piece of trash in an instant.The intent may have been good,but the only people who got more rights after this extremely flawed document was penned,were the criminals,lawyers,and illegal immigrants.The rest of us,ordinary,law abiding,hard working,tax paying citizens had far more right and liberties BEFORE Trudeau and his cronies cursed us with that documant.It's a piece of crap. I have no use for people who drink and then go driving.But I think imposing sentences that are extremely tough may be counter productive.Like someone esle said,it the penalty is to high more people will hit and run.And moore people will get expensive lawyers to find a loophole,and thus get off Scott free.In studying sentences for murder convictions,it has been shown that juries are much less likely to convict the accused if the death penalty is on the table.It stiffer sentences for DUI are the ONLY suggestions we have to work with,I expect that same principal might apply there too.Especially if the driver has no previous record,was forced to take the test,and only blew .03,or even .05. For a conviction,make sure the driver is actually DUI.Not the consumer of two beers after a day at work.And,make sure he/she was actually driving the car.Not sleeping in the for a while before driving home because he/she was unsure about whether or not to drive,and opted fto err on the side of caution.


Damian Noble
said

Allowing random breathalyzer tests on Canadian roads is tantamount to random rights for Canadian citizens. Allowing these types of 'sweeping' infringements is a wide-open door to the police state we're already becoming. Wake up Canada!


charlie
said

Before getting upset as a result of the CTV description of what the Government is proposing, please go the to the Justice site and read the document to see what the Government committee is actually proposing/considering. I don't see anything about police randomly kicking in doors or harassing citizens - just shows that it is a bit dicey to base an opinion on a precis rather than the full version. You may still not like the proposals, and there are many, but you will at least have a full version to consider.


An avid beer lover
said

One stop solution; make the legal limit .00If you know that any alcohol in your system is illegal you're a lot less likely to be sitting at the bar doing the 'how many have I had vs. how long have I been here math' and more likely to use a taxi or 'Key's to Us type service.I think these services should be subsidized making it a cheaper and there for more desirable option. My local drivers know me, and I don't mind because the police don't.The random stop I am not a fan of, but I am not at all a fan of eliminating the problem.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Would those taking, effectively, a "zero tolerance" stance kindly consider that your over-employment of law enforcement in the matter is a foolish waste of public resources when the issue can be brought to a complete end by the mandatory installation of pre-ignition breathalyzers. Don't be hypocritical; for I get the sense that you folks want to be able to have a drink or two (or three) and drive, but are deathly afraid of anybody else doing so. Come on. Let's move the argument forward. What are you afraid of? (I think I know.)


Ed in Alberta
said

Don't we already have random roadside checks? It's a program called CHECKSTOP.


Joe
said

Bravo! What a wonderful initiative. I have nothing to hide and would welcome the oportunity to line up with other drivers to help make our streets safer. "Social" drinkers, assuming they do so intelligently, will have nothing to worry about. To all the "progressive," bleeding hearts who are writing in about "right to privacy", cry me a river. The silent majority, as it once was called, is beginning to speak up again. Joe


Bill Johnson
said

Do it NOW......... Its About time! Criminals and Drunks are the only ones that should be concerned, 99.5 % of Canadians wont even see a difference.


Ron from NS
said

For those that are for this, then I guess you are for random drug tests when you are walking down the street. I guess you are also for random DNA tests. I guess you are for random body searches. Do you feel the same if your place of work did random drug tests?Random anything flies in the face of having any rights.


DUI
said

Speaking from experience this would cost a lot of money & not be very effective. I think drinking & driving is 100% wrong, but give me a couple of drinks & all my good thinking goes out the window. I personally had 7 impaired driving charges, most of the road blocks I went through didn't catch me, I was a well seasoned alcoholic, almost impossible to tell whether I had one drink or 30. The only way to effectively deal with the problem is, mandatory breath analyst machine in all vehicles, that would disable the vehicle. The machines they have now set off an alarm that won't discourage most drunks from driving. From my personal experience jail sentences plain & simply do not work. After being released from jail I would drink even more & be twice the danger to myself & the public. In court on my 7th impaired charge, the judge said: you are not a criminal, but you need some serious help. I cried, for the first time someone understood & treated me like a human being with an illness rather than being treated like a criminal with no regard for society. I haven't had a drink in 5 years. For all of you that think jail is the answer, it's not, jail only makes the problem worse. Give your head a shake when you scream for tougher laws & longer jail sentences, because if I wasn't given the chance to seek treatment, I wouldn't be able to help the young people I help to overcome their addictions. I was always a person with good morals & values, no one told me alcohol was powerful enough to steal 25 years of my life & make me do things I would never do. It is an illness.


mr_vencie
said

Certain jobs (Government and Industry) require drug testing. If the populace can be randomly pulled over and tested, let's bring in drug testng for welfare and social assistance users as well. If this is not a violation of my rights to be randomly pulled over, how can testing recipients of social assistance claim testing is against their rights? Testing may lower those wishing to receive assistance, and tax burden on us all.


Alan
said

I was out fishing last summer and a Conservation officer came by to check my license. Was I doing anything to arouse attention? No, it was a random check. He also checked my hook to make sure it wasn't barbed, as per the regulations. I was involved in an action (fishing) that is regulated by the state. Driving is also regulated by the state. We already put limitations on some actions. Again, getting behind the wheel drunk can KILL people. Yes, dead, deceased, gone, 6 feet under....and it is FOREVER! Hmmm, your right to operate a dangerous motor vehicle while possibly impaired versus everyone elses right to live and breathe? Tough choice here


James Stewart
said

A great idea, hope it makes it through to law. It just irritates the heck out of me to hear that the Civil Libertarians would oppose this. Apparently none of them have had a sibling or two killed by drunk drivers.This seems to work in other democratic countries, we need to take their lead. Enough of coddling law breakers and killers behind the wheels of cars. Give the police and courts power to stop 'em, charge 'em and put 'em away.


Alberta Mountie
said

Government intrusion arguments should stop at the front doors of our homes or when we are not in a position to harm anyone else. Driving a 3,000 to 4,000 pound bullet down the highway while you are impaired at the same time innocent and unaware people are driving down the same highway is a completely different context than what someone might do that is illegal in their own home in private. As a police officer myself I can attest to carnage or both property and life that impaired driving causes. I am not a big government liberal but rather a minimal government conservative. However the government is charged to protect the people and this is a good thing and I hope it passes.


Chris from Ottawa
said

Why doesn't the government just force car manufacturers to put breathalizer ignitions on all cars?


Matt in the Tdot
said

Judging from alot of the comments there are a few people on here that might Drink and Drive. Invasion of privacy my foot. This law is designed to protect the innocent not the guilty o wait I see the Liberal Problem with that.We all know your not suppose to be Drunk and driving at the same time, we all know that there is a limit of 0.8 to which you are not allow to go over. If you Cannot follow that and get drunk take a taxi, bus, train etc. I believe the word is called Self-Control in this case.


Retired in Burlington
said

People who do not drink and drive have nothing to fear, only those who do drink and drive have to worry. This is not and infringement of our rights because after all being able to drive a vehichle is not a right, it is a privledge granted to us by our gov. If this idea can get drunks of the road then I'm all for it.


Charles of Brockville
said

The courts should stop saying "Tsk, Tsk" over and over again. They should give the drunks a good whack, at least on the second or third try, then file them away the next time. Eight, nine, ten offences is just plain too many, put them away before they kill.


Mead
said

Next up - Canadian random searches for terrorists. Be prepared to be water-boarded at random. When walking down the street, the Gestapo will pick you up for 'questioning'. You will have to prove you are not a terrorist, just like an innocent driver has to prove he is not drunk. All in the name of safer streets - we can make a difference.


Wally from Montreal
said

As a retired police officer, I had only to suspect that some one leaving a bar at 2-4 am was tipsy, I waited and followed and as soon as they got behind the wheel and started the engine, bang 9 times out of 10 they would fail and be charged, this was about 20 yrs ago. Law enforcement can't be in front of every bar at any time of day, keep on doing the road blocks and tests, because the next road block will occur because of a fatal crash, involving a drunk, so those people, who find it an inconviniace in being stopped, live with it, because the driver behind you could possibly be the one that could cause an inconviniance and put you or a loved one in intensive care or the morgue. Yes impound the car, like they do here in Quebec charghing $$$$ 145 for towing, 8$ a day impound fee, 30-90 day suspension of driving privilages, you don't get your car back for 7-30 days, all because the driver could not afford a cab, service exsists for 2 cabs to drive you home with your car, just like Operation Red Nose (Nez Rouge). They drive 12,000-15,000 people a year that are over the limit, and it's free. Small donation is in order but not required. Happy St.Patties all.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

I want to be able to pull you over because I see you leaving a nice restaurant, and fear you might have enjoyed "too much" red wine, and be over the limit, even though your driving is fine. (You won't mind, because you've got nothing to hide, right?) I want to then be able to follow you home, and search your house, because I "think" your vehicle smelled a touch like cannabis. (You won't mind, because you've got nothing to hide, right?) I want to be able to check your computer while I'm there, because I saw a picture of you and a young boy on a table in the vestibule, and you don't have a son. (You won't mind, because you've got nothing to hide, right?). Slippery slopes aren't silly, folks. Rather, they're dangerous. The arguments most of you are making in favor of random roadside testing can be woven into a little nightmare of abuse quite easily. Think it through. A police state where everyone is supposedly "safe" (while everyone is perceived as a potential criminal) is the wonderful garden at the end of your pathway of logic.


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