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Canadians play key roles in atom smasher success

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The "worlds poor" are better off than if we had never invented atom smashers. The end products that come from pure science do pay off. If you don't look, you don't find better ways of doing thing and invent things that were never possible before.

Allen - Vancouver BC

Canadians play key roles in atom smasher success

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Canadians play key roles in atom smasher success

Geoff Nixon, CTV.ca News

Date: Saturday Nov. 28, 2009 8:21 AM ET

As the Large Hadron Collider prepares for full-time operation at an underground site near Geneva, Canadians continue to play key roles in harnessing the $10-billion machine's potential for unlocking secrets about the makeup of matter.

The massive particle accelerator -- which sends high-speed protons racing around a tunnel that measures nearly 27 kilometres in circumference -- is finally up and running after months of delays. It was first started up in September 2008, but an electrical fault caused a premature end to its initial debut.

The people at the helm of the world's largest atom smasher say they don't expect any further problems, after a year-long delay and $40 million worth of repairs and improvements.

"The LHC is a far better understood machine than it was a year ago," Steve Myers, the director for accelerators at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), said recently.

"We've learned from our experience, and engineered the technology that allows us to move on. That's how progress is made."

Days ago, the LHC was switched back on, a major step towards getting the machine's much anticipated particle collision experiments underway.

And as the weeks go by in this year and next, scientists will slowly raise the energy of the proton beam inside the accelerator, to the point where it will eventually reach 7 TeV (trillion electron volts).

At present, the Chicago-area Tevatron operates at 1 TeV and is the most powerful collider in operation. But the LHC will soon take that title once it exceeds the 1 TeV mark, likely by the end of this year.

By the first two months of 2010, scientists plan to start testing out the LHC's atom-smashing prowess by deliberately smashing together protons together to learn more about their fundamental properties.

Each of the tens of millions of collisions that occur each second inside the accelerator are recorded by sophisticated and massive, cathedral-sized detectors, which will provide scientists with that data. And Canadians have helped to make sure that data can be accurately observed, collected and distributed to the worldwide scientific community.

Canadian connections

Canadian Jeffrey Joyce was inside the control room at CERN only days ago, presenting a review of one of the LHC Beam Interlock System -- one of the two main critical safety systems for the atom smasher.

Joyce, co-founder of the Vancouver-based Critical Systems Labs Inc., is typically involved in looking at many types of systems that depend on safety-critical software, such as rail-signalling and air traffic control systems, or medical devices.

The safety system for the LHC, however, was something altogether different.

"It's not like turning off a flashlight," Joyce said in a recent telephone interview from his Vancouver office. "You have this huge amount of energy you have to dump somewhere."

The Beam Interlock System, Joyce explained, is what helps shut down the powerful beam of protons in an emergency, so that none of the equipment gets damaged.

Joyce said the system functions like "a huge, very fast, off-switch", which uses magnets to redirect the high-energy beam of protons out of the accelerator tunnel and into a graphite block. It all happens in about 100 microseconds -- or about one-ten thousandth of a single second.

Joyce made contacts at CERN a few years ago when he was completing some work at a Geneva airport. And when the LHC's safety system needed checking, its masters came looking for expertise from Joyce and another Canadian colleague who performed the review.

The scale of the LHC project is a spectacle in itself, he said, with each one of its massive particle detectors looking "like something right out of Star Wars."

Joyce is just one of dozens of Canadians with connections to the LHC.

University of Victoria physics professor Robert McPherson estimates that some 200 Canadians are currently working on the LHC and its related ATLAS particle physics detector -- a 7,000-tonne, 92-metre device, one of a small number of experiments built for the LHC.

At least 150 of these Canadian professors, researchers, engineers, technicians and graduate students, are working on the LHC and ATLAS on a full-time basis.

In fact, Canada has contributed tens of millions of dollars since the idea for the LHC was first hatched more than 20 years ago, said McPherson, who also serves as spokesperson for the ATLAS Canada collaboration.

"I think very much our involvement has been underplayed," McPherson during a telephone interview from Victoria, B.C.

To date, McPherson said Canadians have chipped in some $40 million into the LHC accelerator, $20 million for the hardware contained in the ATLAS detector and another $30 million for the computing resources that scientists will use to analyze the data that LHC will produce through its collision experiments.

With up to 40 million collisions per second taking place inside the fully-active LHC, McPherson said the amount of data produced by the experiments is immense -- estimated to be as high as 1 million Gigabytes each year -- so large that it has to be spread out among computers across the world. Canada will host one-tenth of that data.

Richard Teuscher, a Canadian scientist based at CERN's Geneva office, says that compiling 1 million Gigabytes worth of annual data, would be the equivalent to a stack of DVDs that would fill the CN Tower each year.

The worldwide scientific community expects "a great breakthrough in our understanding of matter," from the experiments that will be possible through the LHC, McPherson said.

Joyce said the science that the LHC is set to probe will help in "understanding questions of pure science."

"I'm quite excited to watch what's going to come out of there," said Joyce.

Background on the LHC

The Large Hadron Collider has been in the works for about 25 years.

In 1984, the plan was hatched for the LHC at a symposium in Lausanne, Switzerland.

Ten years later, the European Organization for Nuclear Research (better known as CERN) approved the project in December 1994.

Over the next 15 years, the nearly 27-kilometre long unit was built up at a site that straddles the French and Swiss borders, at an underground site near Geneva.

The previous CERN particle collider -- the Large Electron-Positron Collider -- had to be dismantled in order to build the LHC, meaning workers had to evacuate 40,000 tonnes of material to move forward. This process began in December 2000 and ended in February 2002.

Because the LHC is much larger than its predecessor, more ground had to be excavated to make room for the incoming atom smasher. Excavation continued until March 2003, but the full construction of the LHC wouldn't be complete until 2008.

Renilde Vanden Broeck, a member of the CERN press office, confirmed for CTV.ca that more than 6,600 international suppliers and contractors were involving in the building and development of the $10-billion LHC accelerator itself.

But that number does not include the people who worked on the detectors, nor the subcontractors who helped with the LHC, he said.

The massive ATLAS detector had collaborators from more than 37 countries and 169 institutions, according to figures provided to CTV.ca by Teuscher. Eleven Canadian universities and institutions worked on ATLAS at various stages.

A diagram that can be viewed on Teuscher's website shows the 92-metre tall ATLAS stands approximately as tall as the top of the Peace Tower on Parliament Hill in Ottawa.

With files from The Associated Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Donna
said
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I have a question: How is it that the people who have encountered numerous problems in activating this monster of a machine are being trusted to contain any problems it may conjure? The problems that I refer to could have dire consequences for the world as a whole. I wish their track record was as strong as their arrogance...

SciGuy
said
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Donna, just because the "check Engine" light is on in your car doesn't mean it's going to explode. Do some reaserch and then make an informed decision before jumping to conclusions on subjects beyond your scope.


Donna
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I'm sorry my comment upsets you SciGuy. Perhaps when you learn to spell "research" you can be taken much more seriously.


John
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This machine is only a theortical physicist's wet dream. New toy just in time for Christmas!


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
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Donna, thousands of the world's best scientist have studied every given senario. Remember when we first harnessed atomic energy for power consumption, we really had no idea of it's full potential ( Google Bikini atoll 1946 ). That didn't stop us from tweeking and testing until we arrived where we are now.To say humans are curious in nature is an understatement. But there are many who think that this could be the end. These are the same people who use things like the Mayan calender as there reasoning. We may be taking a large step. but i'd trust our scientist. In my opinion, it's a step in the right direction. I hope that there are no black holes in my comment.


Kevin
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The idea that the LHC will produce a black hole or any catastrophic event that could destroy the earth is just a joke being played on the world of laypeople by a bunch of overworked nerds. These guys don't get out much and need to get their fun from somewhere. Plus doom and gloom always sells so by playing along it increases their exposure. Because a true scientist can never say 'anything' with 100% certainty, it means that technically 'anything' is possible, even creating a black hole that could swallow up the earth, even if the possible chance of that happening are less than 1 in a trillion times a trillion.


Pat Hicks
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Read Dan Brown's book Angels & Demons - it's all about CERN and antimatter.


Bill in BC
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It's bad enough the wingnuts are predicting the end of the world once the collider comes on line without using a work of fiction as a reference. Come on! Donna, any new technology has glitches. Hell, even your toaster at home has problems from time to time.....that's not a signal that "the end is near". BTW, funny how CTV and the media are using the collider as a distraction from the CRU fraud controversy. Too bad they have thuroughly wedded themselves to the climate change fraud instead of being impartial reporters of news.


Jennifer
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My dears, unfortunately ALL of us are not in a position to truly know what will happen. Donna is right in her comment that the scientists who have worked on this project have not been stellar in their successes - so far a lot of bragging and no results. I do not trust their abilities. Backroom reasoning netting a variety of scenarios isn't good enough for this level of testing. Please grow up.


bear
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Good God. We have found the lunatic fringe.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said
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In my first post i mentioned certain people using wierd reasoning to denounce the Hadron Colider. Well Dan Brown's fictional book " Angles and Demons " is a perfect example. Try a text book, preferably university level. Scientist are now questioning the existence of black holes.


Donna
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Bill this is the biggest "toaster" in the world. Think about it before being glib. We have a team of Igor-like miscalculators playing with the giant toaster. If one of their forks electrocutes them, we go with them. I think it would be better to send the "wet dreamers" a naughty magazine and lock them in their room without interruption.


Wai
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And millions of more children die for lack of food, yet here we are spending $10 billion on a machine which will sooner or later help man build and even more powerful weapon then already available. Embarrassing to see how man just continues to look like idiots.

I would love to have been at the meeting: Hey everyone, we have $10 billion to use what should we do? We could wipe out world hunger by giving them resources and food. Na that would make us look unintelligent; We are scientist, we need to use big words and intellectual thought processes.

Hey, let build a big machine, waste lots of resources, break it, so we have a job for a longer time, waste even more resources (even though we already know how to fix it), and then smash particles together, so we can actually just wipe out starving people. Oh, and get a raise, and a nobel prize. Oh and maybe the Order of Canada too. All in favor say I. NICE!!!! Praying for all of you misguided scientist. That is why we are not the final judge.


TomTom
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Ahhh, yes. And I see that the granola cruchers have joined us.....


jennifer
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Wai has a great point. Thoughtful and factual. The would-be scientists on the line should learn that facts are reliable, conjecture is not. When in doubt, wait until you have more facts. Having seen interviews with the scientists involved in this program, I have no faith in them. They gave statistics on the probability of black holes but could not say it would not happen. To remind everyone of the ability of scientists to predict, please review the historical record of the environment. I suspect that to most, the environmental catastrophe will not be real until polar bears are swimming down the Mississippi River. That will probably be scientifically expained as a preference for eating Mississippi fish.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
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Wai. I see where you are coming from, but if Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Edison, Volta, Marconi would have spent there time trying to end world hunger. Where would we be now? Think about it before you say " well fed " .


Bill in BC
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OK, so on one hand we have someone (no name - no pack drill) telling us all scientists are idiots and with the next keystroke telling us that global climate change (a fraud by a group of scientists at CRU) is real. WOW! Talk about cherrypicking data! So which is true? All scientists are idiots or only the ones you like are smart?


Allen - Vancouver BC
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The "worlds poor" are better off than if we had never invented atom smashers. The end products that come from pure science do pay off. If you don't look, you don't find better ways of doing thing and invent things that were never possible before.


Jennifer
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Bill in BC, please read the post before you accuse someone of cherry picking. It is factual, that the earth is heating up. It is factual that pollution is related to it. It is not factual to say that there will not be a black hole produced by the collider. Twisting words, calling names and labelling are all idiotic tactics used by those with poor arguments. Also, in my opinion, Wai has made a valid point.


Big papa
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Hey Donna, Although I strongly disagree with you (in this instance), I am still glad we have people like you that. We still need to stop to take inventory of what we are doing and where we are going. Thanks


dr.manab chowdhury
said
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I want to understand how protons are produced. as far as I know protons can't exist as such.


Dr. M
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@Rick: Where did you get the idea that scientists are now questioning the existence of black holes? This sounds about as likely as the creationists' claim that scientists question the theory of evolution - in other words, not reliable at all. In fact, this collider may very well create microscopic black holes, but contrary to popular misconception, they pose no risk, as they will disappear very quickly by emitting Hawking radiation. The lifetime of these black holes is measured in billionth of a second.

Events just as energetic occur in our upper atmosphere every day when gamma rays collide with particles in the outer atmosphere. This has been going on for 4.5 billion years, and so far, no earth-swallowing black holes have been produced. As for the ignorance about why this collider is necessary, read some material on string theory, quantum mechanics and relativity. We need to reconcile realtivity and quantum mechanics, and to test out certain predictions made by string theory by testing for a massively heavy particle. If we find it, we will have made a major step on developing a Grand Unified Theory that will tell us exactly how the universe was created, and how it will evolve. Far from being a "wet dream", this is an heroic attempt by some of the world's brightest people to move mankind forward in our understanding of our very existence. Even if you don't understand the science, be adult enough to show some respect for those who do.


Bob
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Who cares how matters were made up. What a waste of money which could have been spent on cancer research instead.


R. E. Lee, Cold Lake Alberta
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As many have said, the Stone Age did not end because we ran out of rocks, we just found something better. Money now spent on war should be spent on schools , hospitals, and food. The internal cumbustion engine is old technology and uses oil. Whether you believe oil is a fossil fuel, or just another hydrocarbon as found by NASA on other planets and their moons, it is time we progressed. Leaving the Oil Age behind would solve many geo-political and pollution problems. Perhaps the collider may lead to a new discovery or two? The incandescent bulb is fading fast; Rudolf Diesel wanted a much more fuel efficient engine than the steam locomotive. Progress was made due to research and experimentation. Just as climbing a mountain requires more money, time, and skill than climbing your basement stairs, so does making scientific progress when you start where other past scientists have reached so high.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
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Dr. M. You've caught me by the short and curlies. What i know is that every friday on our local radio show there is a phone in hosted by Richard Zurawski a meteorologist. This week while talking about coliders, he brought up this point. Later that day on a quick search i found Stephen J Crothers. He claimes that neither Einstein nor Schwarzschild admited that black holes exist. Stephen has some interesting papers on the subject. Don't want to burst your bubble, but black holes like dark matter are theories, not discoveries.

Allan
said
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The world bank estimates that there are over 500 million people living in absolute poverty which means they live on less than a few dollars a day. $10 billion would give each of these people $20 or food for at most a month. We need to keep perspective here that $10 billion is not a lot of money at a global level which is the level that CERN is acting on. Besides, although feeding the world or cancer research is a noble cause, that is not CERN's mandate. CERN is trying to deepen our understanding of nature. We could debate all day what a bigger waste of money is. For example, major league baseball salaries alone cost $2.5 billion a year. This is spent in 1 country for 1 year simply for entertainment.

JR
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It is the same as with the early rocket scientists, they learn through the experience to avoid future mistakes. So, please have a little faith.

roger watson
said
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while the new machine is considerably larger than the old one is it big enough to make the leap to the next level? its a shame the collider in texas was abandoned it potentially dwarfed the swiss/france collider

Just Do It!
said
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If we were to believe in those who said that the WORLD was FLAT this Continent would never have been discovered.RESEARCH and DEVELOPMENT is essential for the SURVIVAL of the SPECIES whatever it may cost. What we discover now may not be of immediate use to any of us .... BUT it will be of Benefit for the next Generation. I say, spend more Billions now to find a cure for CANCER.Carry out more R&D to slow down or prevent AGING ! It is a Good thing Canadians are involved. Tell Harper that we have the Technology to Produce Medical Isotopes again !!!!Harper being a Non Believer in Science .....Let Canada be more ENTERPRISING ! Let us stop being NEGATIVE. Let us stop saying "It Cannot Be Done."


Norman
said
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The CERN Haldron Collider is a great project. Yes it is pure theoretical research in very esoterical physics. The posters whining about spending the money on the poor are missing the point about research. Most of Einstein's theory is still just theory 100 years after the wrote it. Yet things like hard drives developed from footnote observations of experimental physics.World poverty is due to massive planetary over population. The old psych 101 readings on what happens when you overcrowd rats explains overpopulation and its horrid results. Consider that the USA spends one million dollars per soldier fielded in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now if that money was put to work on a refurbishing ol' LBJ's War on Poverty rather than Bush's War on Terrorism you would be after the right issue.


pma
said
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Science is what makes us human. Learning how things work including this awesome universe of the unimaginable large and infinitesimally small is a large part of our existence. Of course one can spend time lecturing about other very important subjects like hunger on their computer and internet link paying monthly fees that could solve the very problem that forms their platform. Hats off to the scientists and engineers. Education has always set us free and will always feed the hungry once fed to every human on earth.

Bill in BC
said
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Jennifer: Thank you for making my point for me.

Will
said
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CERN is just a govermental welfare program for theoretical scientists. The results and benefits of this machine and organization to the average citizens of this world (let alone 1st world countries) is basically ZERO. Does it help in chemisty? Biology? Computer science? The answer is a resounding NO to all of those, yet those are the things that make the biggest impact on our everyday lives.Yes, the whole thing actually works and may give us really interesting data for years to come, but at what cost? Is answering the question"Do Higg's boson exist" really worth $10 billion dollars? It's like studying for the LSAT when the house is burning around you. Studying in itself is a good thing, but a fire is a much more pressing matter than reading.We have finite resources and should be spending our research dollars more efficiently. I'm much more into the space program where technology actually trickles down and helps us common folks. But as for smashing atoms, you might as well be smashing gold bars.


Samuel Prime
said
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Rick in NB, black holes do exist. Double star systems have been studied where one of them cannot be seen because it does not emit light and it's the black hole. When you compute the behavior of the visible companion it shows that its companion is a black hole with exactly the gravitational properties that the black hole induces on its surroundings. Cygnus X1 is a good example. For a short summary I recommend reading the Ency. Britannica article under "Black hole".


Wade Ens
said
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What a waste of 10 billion dollars. They want to know more about the origins of the earth pick up the bible.


Charles
said
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Is this the $10 Billion Dollar Toaster that was shut down by a bird dropping a piece of bread into it? Literally!? Now after a year and $40 Million in repairs and after removing two terrorist linked employee's its now back up? Sure Now the Toaster should be fine. With fumbles like this we need not worry about creating a black hole. They already have a $10 billion Dollar Black Hole!! A Joke.


R. E. Lee, Cold Lake , AB
said
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Roger Watson may have a point. Perhaps the CERN is not large enough, but maybe they will learn how to buld a larger one without so many problems. NASA planned to go straight from the Murcury to the Apollo program, but had to come up with the Gemini program to learn and apply techniques needed for going to the moon. Though today we could do the same mission with robotics, it is not the same as actually being there.If the American program does not go ahead, what does that say about all of us and our desire to progress, and the decline of the United States? Besides, cancer is made of matter, so who knows where we will go with this research.


david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
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Good to see debate on this one.. I can't seem to figgure out if this is a left-wing freedom machine,, or a right-wing human oppressor...Personally, I still grapple with my stainless steel thermos,, it keeps liquids hot OR cold,,,, how does it know????????


Dr. M.
said
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@Rick Sorry Rick, but you're wrong. My field is astronomy, and black holes have been discovered and verified in hundreds of galaxies through observation of the core. They are now considered necessary for the formation of galaxies in the early universe. They are the only phenomena that can account for certain types of supernova, and have been observed in the centre of galaxies swallowing entire stars. The energy output of these events mathematically entails the existence of these objects. In fact, the mathematics of supernova explosions requires the creation of these objects. Furthermore, in certain binary star systems, the orbit of the visible object, often a red supergiant star, requires the existence of a much more massive, but invisible object which is slowly sucking the red giant into itself, emitting huge amount of energy in the process. Far from being a hypothesis (not a theory, by the way) they are now considered to be as confirmed as any other astronomical oddity like pulsars or neutron stars. I know of no one in the field todaywho seriously questions the existence of these objects, because without them, a huge number of astronomical events would be inexplicable.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said
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@ Samuel Prime. Again, thats an excelent theory, but not a fact. Sorry that i didn't read your comment sooner.


Dr. M
said
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@Wade EnnsWade, the people who wrote the bible thought that the earth was flat and that the sun and stars orbited it. They thought it was only a few thousand years old, and that people were descendents of two imaginary people called "Adam and Eve." How reliable do you think they are on any scientific matter whatsoever?


reece
said
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To those who believe this expensive experiment is gonna give us clues to what sparked the big bang....you are dellusional. NOBODY can know what sparked the big bang. The reality of our universe began the milli-second after the explosion and we live within that reality and can't know what the causation was even a milli-second before the explosion. Unless one of you owns a time machine you can loan to CERN. Ask any scientist to throw in a very very very wild guess at what sparked the bang and you'll quickly find a muted response. I assure you.


Samuel Prime
said
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Rick in NB, what is your reason for saying black holes are not fact besides simply saying so? I trust that you know that in science the same approach is devised by which we detect electrons, protons, muons, photons, x-rays, etc, things that cannot be seen by the naked eye but can be detected and measured---ditto black holes, neutron stars, supernovae, etc. Measurement is an important part of science and various parameters of black holes can be measured and tested---such as on the visible companion of Cygnus X1 and other binary stars like them. On another topic, it is rather sad to see many anti-science people here (Rick excluded) even when they reap all the benefits that science has to offer (like the computers they're using)---even science which at first seemed without application but which later proved quite significant in our lives, esp. thru technological advances. I really hope they're in the minority because Canada is at the forefront of scientific advances. In any case we scientists will continue to advance our fields so as to help our society (even if some are ungrateful).


Dr. M
said
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@Reece: Actually Reece, string theory may very well help us understand the conditions that existed before the big bang. String theory talks about how universes are formed (among other things), and if we can use string theory to predict the results of experiments done on this machine, we may be able to have some ideas of where our universe came from. The problem is that we cannot currently decide between alternate versions of the theory. Unless we can narrow the possible candidates down, we may find ourselves forever unable to have any confidence in our ideas of what came before time zero. It would be incredibly frustrating to find ourselves unable to penetrate the final mystery because our technology simply wasn't good enough. Worse still, no technology may be good enough. If that's the case, the god of the gaps is as good an answer as any. People like Mr. Ens may still be able to hold on to their beliefs, but god will have been limited to existing before 10 to the negative 42 seconds of time. But it would be nice to know if this question has an answer, wouldn't it? And that's one of the reasons why they're doing the experiments.


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