CTV News | Hillier says torture allegations 'ludicrous'

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Hillier says torture allegations 'ludicrous'

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CTV National News: Robert Fife on the testimony
Canada's former top general, Rick Hillier, launched a counter-offensive against Afghan torture allegations leveled by a diplomat, and received high-level support from two colleagues.
Power Play: Defence analysts on hearings
Retired general Lewis MacKenzie and U of T professor Wesley Wark say that although the testimony by the generals was compelling, the issue can only be cleared up if MPs receive the documentary evidence.
CTV News Channel: Ret'd Gen. Rick Hillier, part one
Former chief of defence staff Rick Hillier speaks at a special committee on the Canadians mission in Afghanistan.
CTV News Channel: Ret'd Gen. Rick Hillier, part two
Former chief of defence staff Rick Hillier speaks about the transfers of detainees from Canadian to Afghan custody before a House of Commons special committee.
CTV News Channel: Retired Col. Michel Drapeau
Until the documents related to the transfers of detainees from Canadian to Afghan custody are made public, the Canadian public may not be satisfied that the allegations outlined in former diplomat Richard Colvin's statement are false.
Question period: Liberals question government
Asked by the Liberal leader to release documents his government received alleging torture in Afghanistan, the prime minister responded that thee reports weren't 'proof' of torture.
Question period: Bloc MPs question government
The PM would not directly respond to Bloc questions about why all reports pertaining to the torture scandal weren't released, only saying they have handed over 'thousands of pages of documents.'
Question period: NDP question the government
The Prime Minister ignored NDP Leader Jack Layton's continued call for an inquiry into the torture scandal, turning instead, against the Parliamentary Committee on Afghanistan.
CTV News Channel: Mercedes Stephenson, analyst
A military analyst says the committee will be looking for additional information regarding the allegations from military officials. She also discusses what to expect from the testimony of Rick Hillier, but says the issue will eventually fall back on the Canadian government.
Canada AM: Amir Attaran, University of Ottawa
A university professor discusses what can be expected at the special committee hearing and says Hillier will have to explain his negligence about the allegations, but says a public inquiry would be best and the government's hesitance to call one indicates that they do have something to hide.
Canada AM: Graeme Smith, Globe and Mail
A reporter with the Globe and Mail says he's curious to hear the testimony of Canadian military officials and how they will explain discrepancies over torture allegations at a special hearing in Ottawa on Wednesday.

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Nov. 25 2009 9:28 PM ET

Former chief of defence staff Rick Hillier called former diplomat Richard Colvin's statement that Afghan detainees were likely tortured "ludicrous," in testimony before a House of Commons special committee Wednesday.

Hillier also said the allegations that he knew about torture were "absolutely untrue" and "discredits" Colvin's testimony. He said the diplomat's 2006 reports on torture allegations would not have been handed to him when he was Canada's top soldier because the reports only contained second-hand information.

"We didn't base our work on things like reports written in May or June 2006, which said nothing about abuse, nothing about torture or anything else that would have caught my attention or indeed the attention of others," he said.

Hillier said only a few innocent farmers would have been detained by Canadian troops in error, and those innocently detained would have been freed quickly.

The retired general said most detainees were taken after attacks and they were found to have physical evidence -- such as explosive residue -- on them.

"We detained under violent actions, people trying to kill our sons and daughters," Hillier said.

Maj. Gen. David Fraser, who led troops on the ground in Kandahar, and Lt.-Gen. Michel Gauthier, also testified Wednesday and both backed Hillier's testimony, however in much less heated terms.

Hiller said he recently re-read the reports to make sure he didn't miss something three years ago.

"There was no reason based on what was in those reports for anybody to bring it to my attention," he said.

Gauthier, former head of Canada's expeditionary forces, said he first heard of the torture allegations in April 2007 from a Globe and Mail reporter. The first field reports of torture came on June 4, 2007.

Hillier said that when Canada temporarily stopped transferring detainees to Afghan authorities in 2007, it was based on substantial evidence and not on Colvin's reports.

The testimony from Canada's top former generals appear in stark contrast to that of Colvin, but opposition MPs say they cannot clear the matter without seeing Colvin's reports and other documents on the issue.

But the government has yet to agree to release the report, and there is no indication that the report will be uncensored if it is released.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said he will release all "legally available" documents related to the matter, and has called out opposition members for playing "petty political games."

However, Colvin's lawyer, Lori Bokenfohr, says the Justice Department has said that they do not accept the opinion that written or oral testimony before Parliament is exempt from national security provisions of the Canada Evidence Act.

Earlier, the clerk of the committee said parliamentary immunity would apply to almost all testimony.

The special committee has been probing the issue of prisoner transfers in Afghanistan, which a former diplomat has recently suggested was a topic Ottawa was repeatedly warned could lead to torture.

Colvin, now a Washington-based intelligence office, told the committee last week that it is likely all detainees handed over to Afghan authorities were tortured from 2006-2007.

Colvin, who was the former No. 2 at the Canadian embassy in Kabul, testified that he sent warnings to high-level officers and officials in Ottawa about the issue.

New charge

Harper and his cabinet ministers have insisted that they never saw Colvin's reports at the time they were filed -- though a report in Wednesday's Globe and Mail says that Colvin says he did in fact contact one cabinet minister's office.

While Colvin initially testified he was unsure if he had sent his reports to ministers, he sent a letter to the special committee on Tuesday indicating that he did send some of these reports to the office of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, according to the Globe and Mail report.

University of Ottawa law professor Amir Attaran says Defence Minister Peter MacKay -- who was serving as Canada's foreign minister throughout much of the time that Colvin was in Afghanistan -- will now be under pressure to explain why he didn't see these reports at the time.

"It's really quite a step up in the entire set of allegations. It's a big change for Peter MacKay," Attaran told CTV's Canada AM during an interview from Ottawa on Wednesday morning.

"Peter MacKay has been saying: 'Why didn't Colvin tell me? I didn't know.' And this morning it comes out that, in fact, Mr. Colvin sent his warnings about torture to the minister. We're going to have to see what the minister says about that later today, but I think he has a very, very tough road ahead of him."

Following his testimony before the committee last week, the Conservative government has attacked Colvin's credibility, despite the fact that he was promoted to work at the Canadian embassy in Washington where he is still employed today.

MacKay and other MPs have suggested Colvin's allegations of torture were based on hearsay -- though they acknowledge the government changed its policy on prisoner transfers in 2007, partly on the advice of the former diplomat.

However, a new Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey suggests Canadians are twice as likely to believe Colvin's allegations that detainees were tortured by Afghan authorities after being handed over by Canadian Forces members.

Fifty-one per cent of the 2,036 respondents in the Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey said they believed Colvin's testimony, while only 25 per cent said they believe the government's view that his claims are not credible. Additionally, 70 per cent of respondents said that it's unacceptable for Canadian soldiers to hand over prisoners if it is likely that they will be tortured.

Colvin's explosive allegations have also led opposition members to push for a public inquiry into the matter, a proposition that has also been supported by Amnesty International Canada and the B.C. Civil Liberties Association.

The House of Commons special committee has also sought to block the testimony of David Mulroney -- a senior adviser on Afghanistan at the time Colvin said he was sending reports warning of torture -- until they can secure the release of selected documents on the detainees issue.

Mulroney, who now serves as Canada's ambassador to China, is eager to have a chance to respond to the "very serious" allegations Colvin made last week.

"Some touched directly upon my work, that of my colleagues and of the government of Canada. I would welcome the opportunity to set the record straight," said Mulroney, who has flown back to Ottawa from China.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Frank (London)
said
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The top dogs getting their wagons in a circle to stop a whistle blower - this is pitiful politics


charlie
said
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I would prefer to hear what Hillier and the rest have to say rather than have someone tell me what they are going to/are expected to say. Clairvoyance is not evidence.


Bill in BC
said
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Gen (retired) Hillier and these others carry far more credibility than this twit with an obvious agenda. If there's an (unneeded) inquiry; I want this question answered: "what were you promised and by whom?"


odatjo
said
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It is time for the Cons to come clean and let this committee do its work.... For them to bring Mulroney to Canada before the committee requested his testimony, is another example of how Harper rules and muzzles everything. One way for Canadians to get the right answers to the detainee question is by having a Public Inquiry, otherwise we just listen to Harper, McKay and the military continue this cover-up........... Why can't the papers/documents be given to those who request them? What is this government hiding? This is a government who promised transparency? Please help me understand that lie!!! So far Harper has governed like a dictator/controller, so everyone who even thinks they may want to speak is terrified of the consequences. Such is the atmosphere that this Prime Minister has created, and the taxpayer is paying his wages.. oh what a shame!


George V.D.
said
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This Special Committee is starting to look and sound exactly like the Mulrony committee, very partisan, very expensive, with no concrete results other than the grandstanding. A great waste of time and resources. Everyone trying to score brownie points in front of the media to improve their election standings.


Fog of Life
said
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Mr. Colvin,So you are certain all detainees were tortured are you? You saw it with your own eyes? You can show us pictures can you and you can identify each one and documented how each one was tortured right down to the last electrical shock?I didn't think you could, and I don't think you can support any of your supposed findings cause everyone knows you witnessed nothing and only heard second, third, and fourth hand what the situation was. did ou ever stop and think that of course you were going to hear these kind of allegations from the population, but wouldn't you expect that considering the environment?The fact of the matter is Mr. Colvin, the only thing you are sure of is that you heard some heresay.I can't believe they promoted you based on heresay reports,,,,that's just sad.Maybe if you keep writing fiction, you'll get that dream job you are obviously looking for.


simon
said
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Quote. "I hope the committee, if it's serious, will hear testimony from all who want to testify," the prime minister said Tuesday. Unquote.Rather...........THE COMMITTE WILL HEAR TESTIMONY FROM ALL THOSE THAT THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO HEAR FROM.Nobody gives a statement in court unless they are summoned.I am sure Mulroney will be summoned.There ARE Procedures !!!


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said
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Any time i see the phrase " it's a waste of time and resources " i know somebody is scared of what might be revealed. It's just an inquiry. If nothing wrong was done, than the accused should be happy to clear their names.


SK Businessman
said
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Like all liberal fairy tales, this one will end with a whimper...


Brian fr Langley
said
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To all you hand wringing arm chair quarterbacks out there. Just imagine you're on patrol you've discovered a couple of IED's, just last week one of your buddies was killed by one, you come across some suspicious looking types in close proximity, you have enough grounds to detain them, but wait Canada operates no jails or prisons, (and if we did you hand wringers would find that just as unacceptable) I guess I'll just have to let them go and hope they're not the bomb builders, and hope they don't kill another buddy or me, because if I turn them over to the lawful authorities I'm not sure what will happen to them? I've heard these rumors, What to do?? what to do??


Between the Lions
said
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"Fifty-one per cent of the 2,036 respondents in the Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey said they believed Colvin's testimony, while only 25 per cent said they believe the government's view that his claims are not credible."What the heck??? The House Committee meeting hasn't taken place yet and these kinds of irresponsible polls are happening. That's like a court judge deciding on the testimony of the prosecution before hearing the defence. People, lets hear both sides before deciding on who we believe.


Hammerhead in Hamilton
said
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Just so sick and tired of the b.s. being slung against the wall from those losers Iggy and captain jack in the box. Get back and do what the people elected you for and help get this country out of this messy recession. Knock it off with all your pre-election garble......neither one of you are going to win and you will always be on that side of the House of Commons so it's time to "get over yourselves." It's not always about you so pull up your socks and get on with the business of the day and stop all the nit-picking and being so obnoxious. DO YOUR JOBS.


MHB
said
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My Friends, I have no doubt that these allegations are true. The Canadian governments under both Liberals and Conservatives conspired to send INNOCENT CANADIAN CITIZENS to be tortured abroad. The people who can do this to one of their own, would do anything to others.


allan
said
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I believe the Liberal/NDP/Bloc are out to revive the coalition of the stupid, and discredit the Canadian Armed Forces. They insult every serviceman and servicewoman who died serving us. I would not want to be a soldier under their regime.


Guy Smiley
said
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I doubt if Harper's new PR campaign will succeed in distracting Canadians from the fact that the story from the government keeps changing. First they said that they never got Colvin's e-mail, now they're turning arounf and arguing that they acted on them and found nothing. At this point, they need to prove that because they've already lied once.Their story keeps on changing as more information comes out. We won't know the whole truth without a judicial inquiry, where the penalty for lying is prison. They won't tell the truth unless they are forced to do so.


Ian Ottawa
said
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My wife is military, I was military and I have many military friends. I do not care if the terrorist sympathizers are tortured if it leads to saving innocent lives. If you are so intent on feeling sympathy for the prisoners in the custody of there own Countrymen then have the guts to pick up a rifle and walk the walk. If you won't then "Shut your Keg Hole and sit back and watch" The view is always good from the cheap seats because you can sit back and be comfy. Do you think for a second that these prisoners care about what happens to you in there custody? Oh I forgot....They don't take prisoners. Must be an annex to the Geneva Convention that the Conservatives are hiding right? Opposition Cowards!


Ted
said
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why the concern about handing over detainees. If they didn't want to be tourtured by thier OWN people maybe they should have thought about that before being part of the war mongers. Canada, you need to stop your bleeding heart. I say again, circle the wagons, only in this context, circle the country and leave them alone.


Michael
said
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Year in and year out the disgraced Liberals and supporters post their obnoxious venom at the Conservatives and its frankly getting a little annoying.Instead of critical thinking they just offer criticism and ignorant partisan statements which to me only serves to illustrate how the Liberals and supporters aren't really interested in the truth on this issue but use it as yet another episode of bash the cons using their lies and spins wherever possible to create confusion and a cloud of doubt.I highly doubt my fellow Canadians are going to entrust power to these fools.


C
said
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To quote again:The House of Commons special committee has also sought to block the testimony of David Mulroney -- a senior adviser on Afghanistan at the time Colvin said he was sending reports warning of torture -- until they can secure the release of selected documents on the detainee issue. Globe and Mail reporter Graeme Smith said the committee is "trying to get a hold of some papers, some reports, including reports from Colvin that they do know exist, but they can't get their hands on them." "They want those papers so that they can question those witnesses a little more carefully, but at this point, as far as I understand, they still haven't got them," Smith, who has reported extensively on Afghanistan, said during a telephone interview with CTV's Canada AM. I will say it again so they will not let Mulroney testify without documents so they can tell if he is telling the truth BUT Colvin needs not to give any documents and we just take him at his word??? Seriously??? People the troops stopped transfers on several occasions until their satisfactions on detainee treatment were met. This should mean to you that yes they do care about the people they are transferring. Wake up everybody..


Gord. Robson, Nova Scotia
said
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Mr. Muroney was in charge at the supposed time of the alleged torture. He wants to testify but the Liberals and NDP appear to not really want the truth! It is much nicer for them to hear Tom Clark go on night after night (like a dog with a bone) trying to dig up something on the Conservatives. I am hearing most people say, give it up and let the Conservatives get on with their good work on the economy! Rumours,second hand hearsay! Millions of dollars wasted on what...nothing because no Canadian knowingly turned over a terrorist to be tortured! No we are not afraid of the facts because no facts have been presented to date!


Paul on Beautiful Vancouver Island
said
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Mr. Rick Hillier has denied knowlegde of torture of Afghan peope to date; no reason why he would change his "story" today. Mr. Peter MacKay just got caught up in his lies; it's only a matter of time before Mr. Hillier gets caught up in his lies. It is really up to Mr. Stephen Harper to come clean; honesty starts at the top; but as long as the PM sends out the signal to deny all; then his "followers" will continue to deny and lie for the leader of our Country.Interesting how conservatives get on these sites and vote on mass on each comment. It's actually very funny they wast their time doing that; I guess instead of providing required information to the Committee they'd rather play on these site.


John from B.C.
said
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So and why will the oposition not hear from Mr. Muroney? I want to . Is he going to appear on Power Play? All who are so concerned about Mr. Colvin reputation being attacked. How about Mr. Muroney and his reputation, not being attacked? does not matter? Do not want to hear it?


Al
said
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Most of the respondents here have no idea what war is like and seemingly no knowledge of the Taliban. Afghans tortured Afghans, so what? Maybe you should go throw yourself at the mercy of the Taliban and see how valuable your rights are in their eyes. If and when they get their hands on one of our soldiers I'm sure they will demonstrate what they are capable of once again. Get a life people and support our troops and government instead of putting up roadblocks whenever possible.


Anthony from NS
said
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To be honest, even if these allegations are true, who really cares? If they are tortured in Afghan custody, it's the Afghan's problem. Canadian soldiers did not do any of the torturing, so why should I care what happens after detainees are handed over to their own army?Let's get back to reality people, seriously.


Chris Ottawa
said
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I'm a bit confused, it was okay to have Colvin testify without all these documents but it is not okay for Mulroney to testify? Why ? What is the difference? Just another ploy buy the left to take the word of the person who they side without all the paperwork but have already made up thier minds that anyone who disagrees with them is wrong and not to be trusted, great from the people who like to claim to be on the side of right, oh yeah on the sid eof right as long as it is thier side. Pitifull


jim from winnipeg
said
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planes hit the world trade centre killing thousands including canadians, and we have iggy, jack, and the rest of there cronies crying torture of terrorist by afgan officials. my question: who tortured who ?


James Paton
said
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I hate to say this as it is as so obvious, however thes people are taliban combatants who do not abide by any rules and indiscrimiatly kill our soldiers. do we want to slap them on the wrist and let them go??? If the Afgan security forces information saves even 1 Canadian soldiers life through discovery of where an IED is to be planted then it is worth it!!!JP


WEAK ON TERRORISM
said
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Harper and the Conservatives want to be seen as TOUGH ON CRIME. So they allow prisoners to be Tortured. They turn a blind eye and do not want to be questioned about it.What might come as a surprise to them is that this very action or inaction favours TERRORISM. It creates fertile ground for the Taliban because there is an absence of the Rule of Law and with corruptuion in abundance, the stage is set for the reversal of the invasion of 8 years ago. The conservatives are weak or do not have the will to fight TERRORISM!!!!!


JB in Ontario
said
0 0

There is no need for an inquiry. The soldiers were doing their jobs and most likely had no idea torture was being used on handed over Afghans.


Joe MOntreal
said
0 0

Let's see, we are in the middle of a recession, schools and hospitals need money, what should we do??? Ohhhh lets spend money to put more pressure on our brave soldiers. Lets spend millions on a useless enquiry. Let's not use the money to create jobs, but lets make sure to protect jobs for bureacrats or jobs for politicians.


R.E.Lee, Cold Lake , AB
said
0 0

All wars leave a tale of atrocities and abuse by both sides to a varying degree; whether it be the bombing of Coventry and Dresden, or the abuse of prisoners in Afghanistan. As long as Canada is in Afghanistan we will be exposed to these allegations. We need wealthy Muslim countries tho replace Canadian and American troops with their own soldiers and aid workers. The United States did not start WW2, but they helped to rebuild a strong, peaceful Europe with their Marshall Plan. Instead of building more resorts and huge office towers, the people of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, and other oil rich Islamic countries should be helping to protect and help their fellow Muslims in Afghanistan, the same way as the Americans helped the Europeans. Enough of our blood and money has already been spent in Afghanistan, now is the hour for Muslims to rally together for the sake of the Afghan children and their future.


Aaron from TO
said
0 0

NOBODY CARES GUYS!!!!!What a waste of time & energy. Instead on focusing on the ECONOMY & JOBS & HEALTHCARE the IGGies & Layton's want to waste our money & time to investigate a bunch of nothing.Not surprising though Libs & NDP have absolutely no chance in HELL of ever coming to power any time soon,Choose your battles wisely....Canadians are a very patriotic bunch & to have someone on the inside try to smear the name of our Men & Women in Uniform is a disgrace.


CMQ in NB
said
0 0

Finally we are hearing from the people on the ground, directly involved in the situation instead of second and third hand reports quoted from the Taliban "if you get captured" book (Which by the way I hear is a best seller for the average terrorist). Before we hang everyone out to dry and slobber over who is going to get hung, let's allow the panel to do its job and seek out the truth. Then, when those directly involved have spoken we can judge whether this is a huge cover up or just more hot air from the opposition parties with punch (Iggy) and Judy (Jack) and their mime (Gilles) putting on a good show!!!! Hopefully for us, it will be their final act!!!!


PB_Toronto
said
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For all the comments relating to Canada's alleged wrong doing and coverups...Enough! I for one am tired of Inquiries and it apapears like most, I dont think they get to the bottom of anything. They have become nothing but witch hunts that ignore common sense with a predetermined conclusion to appeal and appease the mass (mob). Mistakes happen and always will, we dont need endless bureaucratic nonsense to tell us that a mistake has happened. Providing that one even has. I hear many on unrelated stories talk about 'rights', 'freedoms' and 'innocent until proven guilty'. How come they only apply to a few select? The governement and those that work for it are entitled to the same nonsensical 'rights' and 'freedom' I keep hearing all the intellectual morons yap on about. If you are so quick to sell out Canada ( and I note its mostly these same commentors), do us all a favour and move to another Country and take your conspiracy theories and unpatriotic views with you. You have become a poison to this Nation. I couldnt imagine you morons being around when our forefathers fought in many wars to give you these freedoms you seem to think we have and only apply to those you deem fit . You no doubt would be demanding inquiries and compensation for the Germans and Japanese for all the inconveniences we did to them. Shut Up..plz.. Hypocrites!


Griffin
said
0 0

Why do most of the previous posters think Obama wants Guantanamo closed? Barbarism breeds Barbarism. Why do you think we prosecuted war criminals after WW 2? Torture is never acceptable, that is why those who perpetuate it can be prosecuted.


LS
said
0 0

Anyone wonder why this is only coming out now? Convenient to sit on it for ..what 2 years? Anyone who believes Mr Colvin is doing this simply from the goodness of his heart is sadly mistaken. Other people's agenda is driving this.


Albertaboy111
said
0 0

"There is no need for an inquiry. The soldiers were doing their jobs and most likely had no idea torture was being used on handed over Afghans. "Just to be clear, no one is accusing our soldiers of anything. They would never be a willing party to this kind of attrocity. The only people being accused here are the top brass of the military, government, and diplomacy. They were the ones that allegedly ignored Mr. Colvin's perceived torture. The Men and Women of the military have done nothing wrong. Their orders may have been wrong, but they did not know of the torture themselves.


Jim McB
said
0 0

The lefties won't like his part of the episode. They prefer people who cast aspersions on hersay: it easier to get media attention that way becaue of the ensuing controversey.This whole thing is about improving the fortunes of the NDP and the Liberals with the public. They are in the dumpster and desperate.


dino
said
0 0

what are we suppose to do with captured detainees? Instead of answering that question we go on a witch hunt. we are at war people, hello. How about we set up our own Guantanamo, (not)Instead of pointing fingers come up with a solution.


If I can stop docs being shown, they don't exist.
said
0 0

So Colvin wants to supply the documents to the committee to back up his claims, but lo and behold Harper's minions have now said that the documents that didn't exist cannot be presented. Which is it, the documents don't exist or they do and you don't want anyone to know the real truth? CON-artists please keep the blinders on and go ahead and shoot the messenger again.


mahanna ali
said
0 0

this harris decima polll and the postings here with the "agreements/disagreements" do not seem aligned what so ever---it would appear the liberal pollster harris decima is at it again.... personally i don't think the majority of people(voters) are going to be overly concerned about the fate of murderous thugs...the main thing is,it's not our soldiers commiting the "abuse"..... i implore you (CTV) to put this to the public via "question of the day" in a straight forward manner-than we will see a true "poll"


Steven Leblanc
said
0 0

why are making the rights of these guys so important when if we were captured we would suffer an extremelly painful ordeal !! They don't even care about their own people when a suicide bomber blows up in a crowded market or street !!


Paul in Chilliwack
said
0 0

Oh, folks hang on.Liberalism at it's best. Non uniformed combatants, blowing up women and children. They are killing our brave young men and women and we are making a deal out of Hmm, lets see. The truth.These terrorist are getting far better treatment than they would get from allah, even he says retribution is mine and not yours.CANADA these are terrorist, let our soldiers deal with them the way they would with our children in school. They would blow em up or shoot them, let our military men and women, deal with these scum bags.Truly Canadian.


Raj
said
0 0

I like Hillier, I hope he sets things right. If the libs and the NDP dont stop banging on about this.I am going to have to chnage the chanel to something I can listen to.Just like H1N1 the libs and the media whip everyone up into a frenzy, this is not going to happen in this family.Our Son in law returned afrer 9 months in Afganhistan, and he is disguested with what he is hearing and reading.He said if I am watching this, then so are the taliban, and they are loving this.Well done Canada! the left are wrong, very wrong


charlie
said
0 0

It never ceases to amaze me how those purporting to be in favour of human rights and the rule of law are so quick to junk it when it suits their own interests and agenda. The report of the Afghan authorities has been around since April - and not a peep from the Opposition until now. Six months - a long time to incubate their outrage. There was also no media coverage of the report - was it really not much of a story? Were the Opposition parties asleep or did they hold back until they really needed something to take the heat off their leaders and the fact that there was beginning to be success in the Government's efforts to bolster the economy which needed to be diverted? I wonder how Mr Ignatieff would like to be on the receiving end of some of his own questions - "When will the Liberal Party tell the truth about what it knew of the torture of prisoners? When will it come clean with the people of Canada? When will it produce all the documents in its possession covering the years 2001-2006?" - tough stuff, right? I go back to my previous comments that the Opposition really does not want an Inquiry - they merely want to continue the dog and pony show to squeeze the maximum benefit out of the posturing about the Conservatives. Proof of the allegations - who needs that? The Conservatives are obviously hiding things - everybody knows that. How many miscarriages of justice have occurred in the past because investigators and prosecutors succeeded in fitting the evidence to their theory? I think the people of Canada deserve better than an Opposition which is trying to tear down the Government and the military for partisan reasons.


charlie
said
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Colvin couldn't remember if he sent any memos to a Minister - now he remembers he sent one. I would have thought if a lower rank by-passed the entire chain of command and sent a memo to a Minister - the Minister of Foreign Affairs yet, he would surely have remembered that!


Marcel From Norther Ontraio
said
0 0

From what I read and see on TV the real issue is the lack of current problems that the NDP or Liberal can find to attack the Conservative. The Liberal are limited to going back a few years since the last few decades were ruled by the Liberals and they never made one wrong move. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAWhy do politicians think the people are so disconnected from what is going on. These politicians should log on the Internated or maybe get an true email.


Ivan
said
0 0

Wow - left for 30 min. and the thumbs up/down rations changed dramatically. I guess those 90-95 Cons. party hacks who click on every political story, all got back from lunch.


Vince
said
0 0

I have never seen such disrespect for our troops as I see here in our own country. The best general we have had in decades tells you something and "He must be in bed with the Conservatives". The officers under him are reporting the same. "Must be circling the wagons". Diplomats, except for a single one who is reporting heresay, come forward to support the general and still not enough. "They must be at Harper's beck and call". You believe the Taliban over your own people... think about it... you actually believe a group of terrorists hell bent on destroying our civilization and that would behead you in a second over your government and your soldiers. For the sake of cheap political points the committee and some of you blogging here are putting our troops in danger. And when it all comes out that there was nothing to the story our troops will continue in danger and you will have moved on to complain about what Harper is doing next. Hang your heads in shame.


Afgan vet
said
0 0

Steven Leblanc commented :"why are making the rights of these guys so important when if we were captured we would suffer an extremelly painful ordeal !! They don't even care about their own people when a suicide bomber blows up in a crowded market or street !!"Because we are better then that. They are still human beings and deserve some dignity in their treatment, as hard as it may be to do. In 2008 I was in Afghanistan, and I lost friends to the Taliban. Some right in front of my eyes. But did we ever become a band of savages, and torture prisoners because our friends had died? No. Even though they were the enemy, we always treated them like human beings. It matters a great deal how we treat them. We aren't a band of savages, and we aren't like them. Another commenter said "savagery breeds savagery" and this is the absolute truth. Did the military know that the insurgents were being tortured when they were released into afghan custody? If they were and nobody knew about it, that's a disgraceful oversight. If they knew and nobody did anything about it, that's criminal.


tom smith
said
0 0

The liberals just keep giving me more and more reasons NEVER to vote for them!


Between the Lions
said
0 0

The assertion that 3 Generals knew of torture happening at Saraposa prison during the transferring of Canadian detainees and yet did nothing about it is absolutely absurd. Wake up to reality people!! This is the Canadian military doing it's job to the best of its ability in a difficult situation. The only person who has yet to fork over his documentation is Mr. Colvin. Where is it? Where was it when you first came forward with these allegations??


John
said
0 0

Of all the voices in this story – career bureaucrats, politicians, rights organizations, military, etc. – Hillier is the only one with any credibility.


edd-medhat
said
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The recent Harris Decima (Lib) poll is so out of touch with the rest of all the comments on the various blogs regarding the purported torture issue in Afghanistan. I did a quick count of for/against from three blogs including this one and the the tally is about 80% of responders disagreeing with the Harris Decima poll. These loopy lefty's will do anything to get back in power, because it is their entitlement to entitlements their after.


Maureen
said
0 0

It is a standard playbook statement by any Taliban captured to claim that they were tortured - because they know that the West will get themselves tied up in a knot about it - and this just goes to prove it. I will believe the generals in the field rather than some diplomat given second or third hand information.


MARG MM
said
0 0

Well, it looks like the Generals are in disagreement with Mr Colvin. What are the Liberal/NDP to do now??? I suppose they will say that the Generals evidence is not reliable, but still believe that the second and third hand evidence of Mr Colvin is. Just more political posturing to gain votes. I think Canadians are smarter than that.


Gregory D
said
0 0

Does anyone really care about this?


Doug, Medicina Hat
said
0 0

Hillier, talking like a true politician.

John from Saskatoon
said
0 0

I guess the tables have turned on all the people decrying those who questioned the credibility of Colvin's report. Do you all have the b@#$!@s to question the Generals credibility. If so how is that different then what was being done to Colvin's testimony. Seems to me that it would be the same thing. Even the media, who were basically lambasting the govt. and military, are now saying the generals were very credible and that the generals have seen the reports and felt they should be released so it looks like the tables have now turned on Colvin himself. Sure looks like the opposition and thier supporters jumped the gun in using the war crimes moniker. Disgusting political opportunists.


gar
said
0 0

Lets see if the left wing opposition have enough guts to force an election saying they have no more confidence in the government. They tried it once it did not work. If any of the so called reporters in this country had enough guts they would ask one question to the opposition parties. Are you prepared to bring down the government if you are so concerned about Canada's reputation. Just a one word answer Yes or No


Jake
said
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If Colvin did write all those reports he alleged to have written, he must have kept copies of them if he is any kind of official. So why doesn't the Committee ask Colvin to produce copies of those reports rather than insists the government to produce such reports knowing that the government may not have ever received them. Furthermore, do we insist on so call "transparency" in our war efforts, even if it violate "national security" laws, and provide the enemy with information which should best be kept secret?


BJ
said
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Not only was Hillier commander over in Afghanistan before he was made CDS, but while he was the CDS, he made countless visits there. If anyone had a handle onto what was going on it was him. He knew the situation there better than any one person. He would have first hand knowledge, up to the minute updates. As for him being in the Conservative government, let me quote him as that being absurd. Everyone knows that, not a kept secret. As for the comments about the Taliban congratulating themselves on this. You are bang on. They must be laughing themselves silly. And right now, we as Canadians are looking pretty silly. This is war folks. Go over there. Stay a spell. Say 6 - 9 months, then make a post.


Paul
said
0 0

Just money and wasted media space that should be given to our troops and the tremendous job they're doing.


Written Evidence
said
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The FEW documents that were available have probably been destroyed by the Tories!!!!REMEMBER, Reporters were asked to stop sending letters or e-mails or put their pens to paper.They were asked to just be VOCAL..... so that they could be asked to JUST SHUT UP !!!!Therefore, there can be NO PAPER TRAIL !!!!!!


André in Ontario
said
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I see a mass email to the Conservative sheeple has gone out to side with government on what is going on with this inquiry on this site. Why isn't Harpo & his band of misleader not willing to release all necessary documents? Are they afraid of the truth? Probably so.


Ian
said
0 0

Another prime example of the opposition and their blatant hypocrisy. It's OK for Colvin to answer questions put forth but not for anyone else, who just might have a different version to tell. Sure let's have an expensive Public enquiry which will probably take several months to convene thus giving the opposition even more time to make unsubstantiated claims in the HOC before the government can offer any rebuttal. A parliamentary committee will hear both sides quickly and cheaply. What the heck, let's only hold a committee if we can be sure that what comes out of it will be beneficial to our side eh? We are willing to immediately believe that our government willingly sent people to be tortured, yet give the benefit of the doubt to beasts who throw acid in the face of women who have the gall to try and go to school or go out in public. Let's not forget that the Taliban manual orders that if you are caught by the enemy, claim that you were tortured. They have this in their manual because they know what suckers we are.


Jim-Kingston Ontario
said
0 0

Has the Afghan government or representatives for the AFghan gov't been contacted to provide details/answers to address the alleged torture of detainees captured during military operationsand later transferred to Afghan prisons?? From the recent media reports, I get the impression that the Canadian minority gov't is the only party/group responsible for this issue. Going on a head hunt in Canada doesn't solve the problem in Afghanistan.


Portes
said
0 0

The General is a supporter of the Liberal Party and I doubt that he would say anything to help the Conservatives. I think these allegations are dead on arrival. As I have said there is something more to this story than we know and if I were the Liberals I would tread carefully


Joe C
said
0 0

I trust what Hillier has to say on this more than I trust any politician of any stripe. If he says that there is nothing here, then that's it. Let's move on now.


Mike In BC
said
0 0

Let's not worry about what the Taliban and Al Qaeda is doing to women, children and other civilians...let's get all our focus on what might have happened because it's good politics for some fools. It's stories like this that makes me sick about our political system...When will the NDP and Liberals realize that we are at war???


lc
said
0 0

Hillier sure has a future in the conservative party. He can slander civil servants with the best of them.

sherry
said
0 0

When it comes right down to it, both Wars and invasions were illegal. For one thing, the Taliban(wretched as their agenda is) did not bomb or fly planes into the buildings in New York on 9/11. America had other reasons for unseating them but it was not 9/11. Supposedly Bin Laden and his small rich organization called Al Qaeda were responsibe but there are many other possibilities. The 100's of thousands of civilians who have been tortured, bombed with white phosphorus to writhe in agony, including woman and children, both in Afghanistan and Iraq have paid more than enough for enept or manufactured information about Iraq and Afghanistan and the role they played in 9/11. Rick Hillier and some of the others have spent much time lobbying for America's Militarization of Canada and support for their unfair corrupt foreign policies. You can all believe what you will but someday you will find out this whole venture including Afghanistan and Iraq are the biggest lies of the Century. Donald Rumsfeld is one of the owners of Tamiflu. Don't think I'll stand in line for that one.


Kadjere CNDA
said
0 0

This controversy is fast becoming a credibility issue among the different sources of evidence. While they may also questions about the reliability of what we are being told, the reality is that no single source should be given undue prominence. The truth definitely is somewhere among the documented pieces of evidence that we are being deprived from seeing. As I have said numerous times in my earlier posts, the Tories need to do the correct and object thing by releasing EVERY piece of evidence in their control either to the committee or to any panel that is given the mandate to investigate this Afghangate. The sooner this is done the better for everybody. Even if it turns out that there may be some pieces of evidence that may tarnish the government's credibility. The Tories owe the tax payers that minimum degree of compliance.

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