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Exit dates compromise success in Afghanistan: McCain

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What, now we're supposed to take advice from the guy who thought Sarah Palin was a good idea?

John in Victoria

Exit dates compromise success in Afghanistan: McCain

talking about
Exit dates compromise success in Afghanistan: McCain

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Nov. 23 2009 5:31 PM ET

Setting exit dates from conflicts such as Afghanistan "defeats the entire purpose of sending people over there," according to United States Senator John McCain, who said Monday that establishing security is paramount for success in the country.

McCain, who spent the weekend at a security conference in Halifax, told CTV's Canada AM that the primary goal of warfare is "to break the will of the enemy."

However, with the Canadian mission scheduled to end in 2011 and the Dutch and the British threatening to withdraw troops if President Hamid Karzai doesn't take steps to tackle rampant corruption, militants know all they have to do is hang in until the pullout dates.

"If you announce that you're leaving after a certain period of time, then of course you have the opposite effect on the enemy, who decides they'll be there and they'll just hang around until you leave," McCain said. "So the key to it is to devise a successful strategy, implement it, and then as we are in Iraq, go ahead and leave. But setting exit dates and times for withdrawal defeats the entire purpose of sending people over there."

McCain said he "regrets" but "respects" the Canadian government's decision to wrap up the military mission in Afghanistan in 2011.

He also expressed his "appreciation and sorrow" for the sacrifices Canadian soldiers have made in the country.

But while he acknowledged that success in Afghanistan also depends on the eradication of corruption and better economic opportunities for Afghans, he said soldiers are necessary to establish security because without it, "none of the rest of it will work."

While some NATO allies are considering exit strategies, U.S. President Barack Obama is mulling his country's next steps in the region -- including the possibility of a troop surge.

On the one hand, his commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, is calling for tens of thousands more troops to get a handle on security. On the other, his ambassador to Afghanistan, Karl Eikenberry, has expressed strong dissent about a troop surge until Karzai demonstrates he's willing to clamp down on corruption.

According to McCain, success in Afghanistan can come "within a year to a year-and-a-half" if NATO allies establish the right strategy.

"If we provide the security and the training and Karzai understands that he has to address this issue of corruption, we can succeed," McCain said. "But one thing I am sure of is if (we maintain) the status quo...we are going to lose, and we'll have to leave."

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Scott-Regina
said
0 0

And what would Mr. McCain's definition of success in Afghanistan be? There have already been quadruple the number of souls lost in this needless war than were taken on 9-11, so that can't be the reason (that and the fact that if it was because of 9-11 they should have invaded Saudi Arabia and not Afghanistan and Iraq). Is success in Afghanistan for the Americans when Gog and Magog have been defeated? Maybe. My point is that we always here about this so-called success in Afghanistan, but the details of this "success" are never outlined in detail. Maybe it's just me, but with over 750,000 soldiers and civilians dead between Iraq and Afghanistan since 9-11 this farce of a mission will never, ever be a success but one of the saddest tragedies in human history.


Madeline B
said
0 0

Why in the name of good sense do you give this old has-been a forum to praise the train-wreck he brought onto the political stage. When Sarah Palin is finished with the US, they will be the most laughed at and reviled country in the world, simply because of her total unawareness of anything but herself. It is plain to see that $$$$$$ is the god most americans bow down to and if SP can attract hugh crowds and make lots of money, her neanderthal followers think that is enough to qualify her to be president. I only wish we weren't so close to the US as to be sucked up into the vortex that is Sara Palin. McCain is culpable of the biggest offence against the country he professes to love than any other. He should apologize to his country for the rest of his life!


R.E.Lee, Cold Lake, Alberta
said
0 0

Afghanistan ,like Iraq, probably requires a solution generated by its own people. As so many "Taliban" are coming from Muslim communities outside Afghanistan, it may take Muslim initiatives to bring peace and stability to the region. There are some people who will fight Canadians just because they are not seen as Muslim, and will travel from other countries to do so. They will also be drawn by the perceived corruption of the Afghan government we are supporting. The world's Islamic community must step up to the plate and not leave others to fight for their freedom in repressive countries.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said
0 0

Success in 1 to 1 1/2 years. It's nice that McCain is letting us in on the " right strategy ". Maybe if the Republicans would have found the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, they would have shared this secret strategy sooner. Remember, as far as the U.S. is concerned. It ain't over till the fat pipeline sings.


Brian fr Langley
said
0 0

For over a century now Canadians have fought valiantly for freedom on foreign soil. Just as world war 1 (the war to end all wars) was closing the mayor of a Belgian town exclaimed at a public celebration "O Canadians you have shed buckets of blood for our freedom" . To this day most Europeans (the Dutch in particular) maintain expressions of public gratitude for the same hard fought sacrifices. What the Taliban Government did to us and our allies was a declaration of war. While the Taliban Government has been defeated the Taliban has not. What a shame to spend the blood of some of our finest for a cause as noble as liberty, then not receive that for which the purchase has been paid.


Dr. M
said
0 0

McCain is right- announcing withdrawal dates does mean that the Taliban wil be able to outwait the Americans and Canadians- but so what? Success in McCain's terms is not possible even with a surge of 40,000 troops. The best estimate is that it would take an additional 400,000 troops to subdue and hold the country. All we are doing now is a delaying tactic, while more Canadian lives are lost. And what exactly is the mission anyway? We initially went in to catch Osama bin laden, but he's no longer there. Then we were bringing democracy to Afghanistan, but that's turned out to be almost impossible, and probably none of our business. Karzi's government is corrupt, and the CIA now gives money to his drug lord brother. Opium crops are booming, and heroin exports are thriving as Americans make deals with drug lords around the country. The presence of Canadian and American troops exacerbates attacks on schools, and Afghanis feel trapped between troops and Taliban. If the people of Afghanistan want a theocratic government, we ought to take a lesson from that about how religious fanaticism threatens democracy, and let the Afghani people forge their own destiny. I'm more worried about democracy here at home, given Mr. Harper's attitude towards the press, than I am about how the Afghani people choose to live. And when I see how some people are being corrupted by this war here at home, becoming so callous that they now accept torture as a legitimate tool of war, I think we are doing more damage to ourselves than we are to the Taliban. Success? At what cost?


allan
said
0 0

I respect Mr. Mccains sacrifice to his country while in Vietnam, but this is not the 60's.Afghanistan cannot and doesnt have the desire to be civilized.


Doug @ BC
said
0 0

It would be unfortunate ig a lot of people used their anti American biases to pass judgement of this entire mission. That said,this mission has been poorly handled since Mr.Bush decided Iraq was more important than what even Mr.Obama calls "this war of necessity". But McCain is essentially right.If you assume the mission has value,to announce an exit date is counter productive,and almost ensures the mission will be lost.While exit objectives need to be discussed at the highest levels of NATO,the decisions need to kept from the Taliban. One thing constant in this conflict is the need to get the support of the people of Afghanistan.THe second constant,sadly,at this stage of the mission,is that they remain unconvinced that NATO will be successful.For that reason,to show support for NATO is akin to asking the Taliban to slay or torture your family.Most average people in Afghanistan remember how they were left to fend for themselves after the USA covertly helped them send the Soviets out of the country,and how the Taliban rushed in to filll that void.Surely we can understand how reluctant they are to believe that the same thing won't happen all over.If NATO,ISAF,or anyone else puts a firm exit date on the mission,the Taliban will simply wait for that,and the people of Afghanistan will cover their own butts by not being seen to support NATO. This is a war.You either fight it,or you do not fight it.Both decisons require determination and commitment.The most vile decision is to go into a country with forces and them leave when the country is in chaos.Just like Mr.Bush's ill conceived invasion of Iraq.Going in was a bad idea.But once you do,there is a moral obligation not to leave the people in a worse situation than the one you came into.


Bear
said
0 0

Hogwash, bring our troops home now since we're in a losing battle anyway. Never gona solve their problems.


Memoryofafish
said
0 0

There is no "success" possible in this region, unless the local population buys in, and controls it. Ask the Russians, they are much more brutal, and they spent many years trying to gain control there. Eventually they came to the realization that they would never win...we should learn from that. Find another way to transport the oil.


Joel
said
0 0

John McCain does make a good point that setting an exit date before the job is done is pointless. You wouldn't normally do this in your daily life. I'm sure most people would be a little bit irate say if their Mechanic quit working on your car when it was half finished. I think Canadians have a lot of misconceptions about who the Afghanistan people are and what they believe in. I've travelled to the Middle East a few times now, and the majority of people I've met were really quite friendly and want peace and stability just like anyone else. Regardless of what happened on 9/11, the Taliban was terrorizing their own people, and the Afghan people were to powerless to remove them. Regardless of where we live in the world, we should all have the same basic human rights and Canada's postion in NATO and the UN is to help that happen.


Dr. M
said
0 0

uh, Brian, the Taliban didn't do anything to us or our allies. 9/11 was perpetrated by Osama bin laden, a Saudi Arabian. The Taliban allowed al-Qaida to train in their territory, but they were not directly responible for the attacks on America, any more than Iraq was. And the Saudis attacked America because American troops are stationed on their soil supporting a Suadi dictatorship. And the Americans support that dictatorship because American corporations depend on the oil. American foreign policy has been held hostage to dependence on middle eastern oil since 1974, when they began importing more oil than they produced. As far as the Muslim fundamentalists are concerned, it is America that has been waging war on them. Jingoistic rhetoric should not take the place of reasoned analysis. Otherwise we might find ourselves caught up in a never-ending war that promotes the interests of the corporate elite at the expnse of Canadian lives.


Ron J.
said
0 0

Makes sense. You can't guarantee success by a certain deadline. It's like saying we'll stop all car thieves by a certain date. Good luck. The Liberals got us into Afghanistan, but the minute it got nasty they shouted Run and Hide.


Paddy
said
0 0

Imagine if the United States had said in 1941, "Ya, we'll stick around until the end of 1943 but if the job's not done by then we're outta here." Boy the world would be a different place....


Kadjere, Canada
said
0 0

McCain continues to live in dreamland. Thank God he failed to make it in the Presidential race. Anybody who believes in a military success at this stage (nine years into a war) with no end in sight must either be driven by illusions or unrealistic aspirations. I'm no military expert (by any long shot) and yet in retrospect, I continue to see signals that this war should indeed never have been started.The reality in field is very clear. There is no foreseeable military solution to this conflict. Anybody who has been to Afghan and talked to the members of the local community will confirm that the influence of the Taliban at the grass root level is so entrenched that no outside forces will easily penetrate and destroy their solid and well guarded secrete to this war.I'm sure McCain knows as well as many observers that continuing this conflict with no meaningful and effective timelines is the wrong way out. If McCain thinks that NATO and its forces are the only sustainable way out, he is definitely backing the wrong horse. He further states that establishing a deadline simply means encouraging the Taliban to hold on until the deadline runs out and then striking back. That same logic I must confess applies in a situation where a timeline is effectively established a priori. The Taliban forces will continue to dominate the daily activities of the Afghan people for the foreseeable future and that in essence means a military solution to this conflict is no viable option. President Obama’s careful approach is the way forward and should be applauded and supported by all. This is one of the few objective options of mitigating human loss and at the same time trying to provide help to vulnerable communities.


AlbertaBoy111
said
0 0

This is one area where I agree with McCain. If we are going to be there to do a job we should do it right. Coming home early because we are getting bored of the war, or think we have lost too many men is simply cutting and running. Either we decide the war was never worth it and pull out, leave them to become even worse than before and have more anger against us, or we stick it out. It will not be pretty. Lives will be lost. But you cannot leave the job half done and pretend you did a good thing. I personally think with the U.S. troop surge Canada should move to an entirely non-combat role. They are allowed to defend themselves, but their main focus should be re-construction, building roads, bridges, schools, infrastructer and the most important thing, JOBS. Hit the Taliban where it hurts. In their propaganda machine and grassroots support.


Linda in Vancouver
said
0 0

Some good points. I lean towards agreeing with Paddy,Doug in BC,Ron,J,and a few others who see the folly of trying to be exact about a situation that is changing on a daily basis. I can understand how those who didn't support the mission in the first place,are now using this issue to support their original decision.But to th point someone made,the decision to take part,or not take part is past.The reality is,we are in there now. We have an obligation to leave knowing that we did not just make things worse for the people of Afghanista..They cannot suffer consequences and torture just because they wanted basic human rights in their own country,and helped ISAF and NATO work towards that goal.

Dr.M may have a point about oil.I'm not sure I agree entirely with that.My point is more about the contention that,even if his point is true,that the fault lies entirely with the USA,or with oil consuming nations.What is missing from that analysis is that the producing nations are just as involved.Those middle east nations actively lust after American dollars.And American (or all western dollars) paid for a lot of developement in middle east societies.While it's apparent that those dollars are not always spend for the betterment of all citizens,it is a fact that it's up to the citizens in those nations to demand their fair share.Not for the USA or anyone else to meddle in internal affairs. RIghtly or wrongly,we made a commitment to help the people of Afghanistan.We now have a duty to keep that promise.To do otherwise would make us complicit when the Taliban returns to close schools and throw acid in the faces of little girls.Without the schools,Afghanistan can never move forward.Those students are our best bet for success.


John in Victoria
said
0 0

What, now we're supposed to take advice from the guy who thought Sarah Palin was a good idea?


Freeman Blaze
said
0 0

"no one starts a war-or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so-without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it."- Karl von ClausewitzThat in a nutshell is the problem with both Afghanistan and Iraq. The Bushites wanted revenge but preferred oil. Thus 2 wars. Canada is in Afghanistan along with Nato and with no plan. R. E. Lee from Cold Lake is right. Let the Muslim's solve this mess. The Taleban is a creation of the Saudis and Pakistan. Let them defang this monster. Declare victory and come home. Next time use nukes and plenty of them.


JB in Ontario
said
0 0

I agree with Senator John McCain about getting and maintaining security before a pullout. I don't think that was accomplished during the Vietnam war.I also agree that pulling out before security is there, will not be in the best interests of the fighting forces over in Afghanistan. The Soldiers need to see why they are over there. Bringing them home too soon will be all for nothing unless they can secure the areas and take out Insurgents.


Dr. M
said
0 0

Linda in Vancouver: Thanks for your well worded, thoughtful response. The reason that I say that the reason for the invasion of Iraq was for oil has to do with the history of the region, as well as the fact that John McCain himself, during the election campaign, said that he hoped America would become energy self-sufficient so that "America would never again have to invade a foreign country for their oil." Right-wingers in the States and Canada who continue to insist that America invaded for weapons of mass destruction, or to bring "democraacy to the region", need to remember that McCain himself has admitted the real reason for the invasion. Furthermore, the presidency of G.W. Bush was financed in large part by the oil industry. Donald Rumsfelt is on record as saying, before Bush was elected, that he'd like to invade Iraq, but that the American people would need a "traumatic event" in order for them to support an invasion. 9/11 gave them that pretext. But the war itself had been planned for years. Iraq, by the way, has the second largest oil deposits in the Middle East, and Americvan troops have been pulled out of the cities and re-positioned to protect the oil supply. You do the math.


GHW
said
0 0

I have an idea. Pull out all troops from the Middle East then spend the money you’ll save on developing alternative energies. - The removal of troops from their sacred soil will put an end to terrorism and our need to have troops there in the first place. - The new alt-energy development will create local employment, help clean up the planet, reduce dependency on foreign oil (which will run out eventually anyway), and by reducing the need for what little oil there is left on this planet we could avoid WWIII.Obviously I’m over simplifying but even if more well thought out plan could be put in place the large corporate interests like Big Oil and Military Hardware and others (who are the real masters of this planet) would never allow it.War, war, war… when will it ever end? When we’re all dead!


Dave
said
0 0

Any loser dumb enough to think Palin is a good idea should stop sharing his opinion and spare us the diatribe.


eddytoronto
said
0 0

McCain is a hard-line neoconservative who buys into Bush’s “preemptive war” theories abroad and his concept of an all-powerful “unitary executive” at home.The scientific community is buzzing over thousands of emails and documents — posted on the Internet last week after being hacked from a prominent climate-change research center — that some say raise ethical questions about a group of scientists who contend humans are responsible for global warming.The correspondence between dozens of climate-change researchers, including many in the U.S., illustrates bitter feelings among those who believe human activities cause global warming toward rivals who argue that the link between humans and climate change remains uncertain.Some emails also refer to efforts by scientists who believe man is causing global warming to exclude contrary views from important scientific publications.“This is horrible,” said Pat Michaels, a climate scientist at the Cato Institute in Washington who is mentioned negatively in the emails. “This is what everyone feared. Over the years, it has become increasingly difficult for anyone who does not view global warming as an end-of-the-world issue to publish papers. This isn’t questionable practice, this is unethical.


Steph
said
0 0

I know it would be a lot of work but what about an embargo on Afghanistan? Iran and Pakistan would have to be dealt with at the same time but it would save lives in the long run.Steph

Fred - Brandon MB
said
0 0

I understand Mr McCain's position, but I think it is important for Canada to make it known that we are not prepared to stay in Aghanistan indefinitely. This country has been in conflict for 600 years, and may well be for another 600 years. They seem to know nothing else, and are incapable of living in peace.We have spent 8 years there (that's longer than WWII) and most of that time has been in the most dangerous and volatile region. Canada has done its part, it's time for another country to step up.I doubt very much that the opposition parties will suggest we stay longer, and they are just waiting to crucify the Conservatives if they propose to.


John E
said
0 0

Most of these comments are pure hogwash. Bring the troops home. I for one am fed up with this nation being sucked into something it has no real desire or need to be directly involved. Let the nations in the region sort this one out. All we are doing is creating problems instead of helping. One of the problems with the US republican party... they have too many ex-military like McCain trying to be politicians and try to make us believe they are being rational in their approach to international problems.


Tom in BC
said
0 0

Thank you GHW. At last some realistic sane suggestions.


Rick
said
0 0

Do any other citizens get tired of American politicians coming into Canada and dictatate potential dangers of not following Them blindly?


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