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Prisoner transfers halted more than once: Natynczyk

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CTV National News: Todd Battis on the evidence
An Afghan human rights agency that monitored treatment of detainees on behalf of Canada released a report, documenting hundreds of cases of torture.
CTV News Channel: Kamran Bokhari, Stratfor
A Middle East expert says he is not surprised by torture claims because some intelligence agencies in that area do not 'shudder' from those extreme methods. Bokhari says the situation in Afghanistan could worsen as 2011 approaches, and it will be difficult for Canada to stay only to reconstruct if there is still fighting going on.
CTV News Channel: Murray Brewster, CP
Gen. Walt Natynczyk confirmed the stopping of transfers of Afghan detainees from Canadian to Afghan custody because of evidence of torture, but didn't say when, or how many times it occured.
CTV News Channel: Errol Mendes, U of Ottawa
The beginning of the detainee torture issue may have started during the signing of the prisoner transfer agreement in 2005, which didn't include any follow up provisions for the transfers.
CTV's Question Period: Defence Panel
Tory MP Laurie Hawn says the senior diplomat who made explosive allegations about detainee transfers, isn't credible. Opposition MPs Bob Rae and Jack Harris however say there may be something to his testimony and want an inquiry.
CTV's Question Period: The Globe's Graeme Smith
Journalist Graeme Smith broke the story of the detainee transfers in 2007. When asked whether Richard Colvin or the government is more credible, he said he doesn't know, but is looking at who has 'more reason to tell the truth.'

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Sun. Nov. 22 2009 10:32 PM ET

Canada's chief of defence staff said Sunday the practice of transferring detainees from Canadian to Afghan custody has been stopped on more than one occasion over safety concerns.

Gen. Walt Natynczyk did not say when the transfers were halted or how many times.

But it's a staggering admission given the charges levelled this week by intelligence officer and former diplomat Richard Colvin, who told a Commons committee this week that likely all detainees Canadian forces handed over to Afghan officials in 2006 and 2007 were tortured.

Colvin's allegations appear to be corroborated by an April study from the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission. A translation of the study obtained by The Canadian Press found 47 cases of abuse in Kandahar, which had the third-highest incidence of abuse claims in the country.

"Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment are common in the majority of law enforcement institutions, and at least 98.5 per cent of interviewed victims have been tortured," the study said.

Abuse claims were recorded between 2001 and early 2008. Most took place in 2006 and 2007, when Colvin said he was warning the federal government about torture in Afghanistan.

The Conservative government has acknowledged that the Canadian Army halted the practice of transferring detainees to Afghan custody due to torture concerns on one occasion, in November 2007.

But the issue will likely continue to gain steam this week, when former military commanders, including retired Gen. Rick Hillier, appear before the Commons committee.

Earlier Sunday, the NDP's defence critic said an inquiry "is the only way" to get to the bottom of what the Conservative government knew about allegations of torture among detainees by their Afghan captors.

Speaking to CTV's Question Period Sunday, MP Jack Harris said the government should be ashamed of its attempts to discredit Colvin, who also said that many of the prisoners were likely innocent of any crimes, and that he was told not to mention prisoners in his reports from the field.

Colvin was the political officer at the Canadian-run provincial reconstruction base when Canadian troops began transferring prisoners to Afghan authorities three years ago.

Defence Minister Peter MacKay and other members of Prime Minister Stephen Harper's cabinet questioned Colvin's claims, saying there was no evidence to support them and even calling him a "suspect source."

"This government has been trashing this guy as if he's some sort of Taliban dupe. I think it's shameful, and the government should be hanging its head in shame as to what they've been doing to this man in the last few days," Harris said.

"But the underlying theme still is that this man was making the reports as early as May of 2006, changes were not undertaken until at least a year later and it's questionable whether they were ever in effect," he said. "So something is going on here and we need to get to the bottom of it and we think an inquiry is the only way."

Errol Mendes, a professor of constitutional and international law at the University of Ottawa, said he was "astonished" that the government questioned the credibility of Colvin's claims, considering that the charges have been made by other organizations.

"If the government is calling his credibility into question, they have to also question the credibility of NATO, of the U.S. State Department, of the UN, of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission -- just about all of our allies in Afghanistan who have corroborated the fears of Richard Colvin," Mendes told CTV News Channel Sunday.

Mendes said that under international law those in senior civilian and military positions are responsible to take all reasonable steps to stop potential war crimes such as torture.

"Statements are being flung around now that people didn't know there was a substantial risk of torture -- that is a defence under the doctrine of command responsibility under the Geneva Conventions and the International Criminal Court," he said.

The charges

Colvin said that when he learned of the torture allegations, including that prisoners were subjected to beatings and electric shocks, he wrote to officials in Ottawa throughout 2006 and into 2007.

Those reports were widely circulated in the Foreign Affairs and Defence Departments, yet senior members of the Conservative government, including Harper, say they did not see them in 2006.

Globe and Mail reporter Graeme Smith, who broke the story of abuse in Afghan prisons, said Colvin has "torpedoed" his career by levelling charges of illegal activity against government ministers.

"I nearly fell off my chair, to be honest. I didn't expect Colvin to be the kind of guy who would talk in the first place," Smith told Question Period. "Colvin is this very British, stiff-upper-lip, by-the-book, by-the-rules kind of guy."

"For the government to be coming out and calling him a Taliban dupe, is astonishing to me," Smith added. "He works in this highly, highly classified environment, I don't quite understand how he's a Taliban sympathizer."

Laurie Hawn, parliamentary secretary to MacKay, said that there are two issues: the timeline of who knew what and when, and what was happening inside Afghan prisons.

"Clearly Afghan prisons are not like Canadian prisons," Hawn told Question Period.

"But at that time, under the agreements we were operating under, no Canadian soldier or commander, and no minister and no member of the government, knowingly transferred prisoners in to be tortured."

Hawn repeated MacKay's comments from earlier this week, in which he asserted that once the government received "credible information" about poor conditions in Afghan prisons, it made a series of changes to its transfer policy and boosted funding for prison infrastructure.

"And according to all sources that's when things really started to improve and things are much, much better now than they were," Hawn said.

Liberal foreign affairs critic Bob Rae said assertions that the prime minister and others did not know about Colvin's allegations in 2006 are not "credible."

He and other Liberal MPs accused the government earlier this week of trying to quash Colvin's reports and cover-up the fact it did nothing about them.

"It's about what happened to the detainees," Rae told Question Period. "It's also about the fact that it took a long time for the Canadian government to change its policy and to try and deal with the problem... It took a year-and-a-half from the time the first detainees were transferred."

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Matt
said
0 0

What about what the Liberal government knew for the first 4 years Canadain forces were in Afghanistan. Were there no prisoners transfer taking place during 2002 - 2006? Why do Mr. Colvins unfounded allegations only start a few months after the Conservatives took power?

Don Jones
said
0 0

It cost the Canadian tax payer over $14 million to find out that Brian Mulroney got an extra $300,000 for the work he was doing or supposed to do. How much is this inquiry going to cost to find out that the policy on Afghan prisoners was something the Liberals put in place that the Conservatives inherited? This policy got changed eventually by the Conservatives and now things are supposed to be much better for the Afghan prisoners. Has anyone an idea of the cost of such an inquiry?

eddieo
said
0 0

To NOT fully investigate these allegations would not only be morally reprehensible, but illegal under national and international law; as it was to let an admitted war criminal - G.W. Bush into the country recently. We must get to the bottom of this, no matter what our government officials say. To not do so would make us all complicit in these highest of all crimes.

Scott/Hfx
said
0 0

This is completely absurd! The NDP, a party that supports Chavez and Castro type politics, trying to start an inquiry on the Conservative Govt. regarding treatment of prisoners. OK Canada, how much taxpayer money, and time are we going to let the NDP waste????

charlie
said
0 0

Let's not investigate and see what was happening - let's go immediately to a public inquiry. Great idea - not. This is so typical of the opposition parties trying to smear the government at any cost. The pursuit of power at any cost - makes me gag. Don't confuse the issue with facts or evidence - they have their agenda and want to stick to it. In Ignatieff's earlier writings he advocated "enhanced" interrogation kmethods - now he is aghast! Bobby Rae (he is a Liberal today) is still showing his NDP roots. For good or bad, when Canada is bringing home dead and maimed sons and daughters who have given their all for this msssion, I really think that most don't care what happens to these prisoners - if indeed anything happened. If they were tortured, that isn't "moral" - but they were being taken to task by the same countrymen who were on the receiving end of their attacks - what goes around, comes around. The second and third hand "revelations" of the diplomat are NOT credible evidence. Queensbury's rules are good only if both parties agree to them. To date, I don't see evidence that the Taliban have agreed - or did I miss the part where suicide attacks against civilians, acid in the faces of schoolgirls, killing teachers, and beheadings are ok afterall?


GTA
said
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To put it in perspective, one must remember that the NDP idea of torture is forcing prisoners to watch regular TV instead of HD, and giving them dial-up instead of DSL. If they don't like what the Afghan Government is doing to the Afghan prisoners, take it up with the Afghan Government, not ours.


Chris in Kingston
said
0 0

Why does the NDP care what our military does? If they ever get elected (after pigs start flying), there wouldn't be a Canadian Forces anymore anyways, so its a moot point.


dusty - ottawa
said
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What kind of crap is coming out the NDP mouths now? Is there ever a day goes by without them or the useless Liberals wanting some kind of enquiry? Why don't we just take all of our money and have ongoing enquiries? These enquiries are very costly but the NDP doesnt seem to understand that. The Taliban that have been imprisoned are for being Terrorists and everyone of them is going to claim they were tortured, it's in their code of conduct when they are taken prisoner. Get on with the business at hand and forget this garbage about enquiries for people who throw Acid in the faces of their own people and have KILLED over 135 CANADAIN SOLDIERS. Is their death going to be in vain because of what a Taliban Prisoner says?


JR Expat
said
0 0

When are these opposition parties going to start spending their energy on contributing to helping Canadians and getting the business of government done!!! All they ever do is constantly attack the Harper government. I was a Liberal for years until the Liberals got so arrogant and the NDP will just bankrupt Canada if they ever (God Forbid) got to power, the Cons are the only government in over 20 years that are actually doing realistic things and actually helping Canadians, so please stop wasting everyone's time and money on useless inquiry's!!


Ryan
said
0 0

Matt,It was not until December, 2005 that we signed an agreement to transfer them. That is why. And it was signed during the election the Liberals fell. So they can't be held responsible if they weren't in power when the prisoner transfers started. I want an inquiry. I want to see what the Tories did...or failed to do.If the allegations prove to be true, our reputation in the international community will be ruined. And it would be because of this Conservative government.


Lionel Cold Lake, Alberta
said
0 0

Very sad with no proof that the Liberal party accepts the word of person who decided to accept the word of terrorists who have a play book say you were tortured if captured.


Paul
said
0 0

I have a better idea to spend our tax payers dollars. Its called Harper calling a federal election so we can get of the idiots who inisit of calling for an inquiry over everything.


Gord. Robson, Nova Scotia
said
0 0

I for one do not want to see an inquiry that is going to waste millions upon millions of tax payers money! Yes you and I have to foot the bill for a senseless inquiry ! Mr. Colvin information and was second and third hand and appeared to come from the Taliban. I trust our Canadian Government but I do not trust the murderous Taliban. This is how the NDP want to help our economy by wasting millions! The Taliban, as faras most Canadians feel , have no rights, they areTERRORISTS !! We will remember those that vote or try for an useless waste full inquiry at election time !


Terry Tarr
said
0 0

We allegedly send troops overseas to quash oppression and barbaric acts. Now people think it's okay to enact these atrocities on the people that live there. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.


CDT
said
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wow, seems to me the posters here have missed the point. Canada has signed onto the Geneva convention which is very specific that there will be no transfer of detainees to countries that may toture them. If Canada was indeed sending detainees (many of whom were ordinary villagers who got caught up sweeps of Talban partisans, and were guilty of nothing) to centers where they would be tortured, than Canada is in violation of the Geneva convention. That's us, our country, our miltary, our government. And it doesn't matter whether it was the Liberals or the Conservativesd who werein charge at the time. It means one big black mark on our international reputation, which is getting blacker every day.


Sk Doctor
said
0 0

More useless 'liberal' rhetoric and contradiction...


Pat - Ottawa
said
0 0

To quote Graeme Smith on Question Period today, "this is old news". He and several other Canadian reporters did real research and published the articles that caused the government to change the policy. As for Colvin's email reports, is it worth millions to find out that Ministers and Deputy Ministers do not read all their emails?


International Law - what a concept!
said
0 0

As someoe who served with the CAF, and not some armchair warrior who thinks putting a yellow magnet on the car gets the job done, I welcome an inquiry. We are not Americans, and obeying international law is something Canadians - and everyone else - should do. And while they're at it, maybe they could look into a couple of the things (like the trans-afghan pipeline) the war criminals in power have on the agenda when they send brave young men and women to die for their corporate masters and campaign financiers. And do me a favour. If you really want to "support the troops" don't put a yellow magnet on your car. Go and fight. It is despicable to support (and extend) a war you aren't even willing to go and die in yourself.

Chris In Ajax
said
0 0

Torture is against international law. If Canada transferred prisoners to Afghan prisons knowing that they would be tortured it is against international law. We already know that the Conservatives do not take a stand against torture(re: Kadr in Guantanamo) so why should we believe them now? That raises another question: How can high ranking conservatives (including the PM) say that they did not see these memos that were widely circulated around the hill? Would that not be negligence in their jobs? How much effort does it take to read a memo? Canada has signed numerous treaties stating that it is against torture and will uphold international law. When will it start adhering to these treaties again? I am a proud Canadian but am disgusted with the idea of torture. The argument that these people perpetrated terrorist acts is not reason to suspend basic human rights. In Canada you are innocent until proven guilty and torturing someone to glean information before guilt is ascertain is deplorable and morally reprehensible. Why are we following the US down this path?


Laurie
said
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"Gen. Walt Natynczyk did not say when the transfers were halted or how many times. "So, the transfers were halted several times! I wonder what MacKay and Harper are trying to hide? How can they not have know about Colvin's concerns? Here's an obviously credible person(Colvin) and all they can do is try to discredit him! Disgusting! But, oh so typical of the Harperites and their secrecy. I hope this is fully investigated. Harper and his cronies have been smearing everyone in their path for the past couple of years. Now I hope they get some of their own medicine in return! It looks good on them!


Laurie
said
0 0

Charlie said: "If they were tortured, that isn't "moral" - but they were being taken to task by the same countrymen who were on the receiving end of their attacks - what goes around, comes around."Well, that's just the problem, isn't it. Many of them were likely innocent, and had nothing to do with the attacks. As a country, we cannot be complacent about torture -- we can't stoop as low as Bush and his cronies.


Charles
said
0 0

Quite frankly I think Candians as a whole do not give a damn about this subject. In my view this is strictly another effort by the media in their continual efforts to support their Liberal party friends by trying to brainwash Canadians into believing that we have a rotten Conservative government. Like the rest of their efforts this will be ignored at large.


CF Officer
said
0 0

International Law - what a concept! You sound like one of the "armchair warriors" you complain about. As a serving officer, I follow the Geneva Conventions, not because they are "international law" but because they are Canadian law. Section 130 of the NDA states an offence under any other federal statute is an offence under the NDA. It says nothing about "international law".


Pat - Ottawa
said
0 0

Laurie, believes that most of those Afghans turned over to the ANSF were innocent bystanders. To set the record straight, if the CF detained them and they were handed over to the ANSF and not returned to their village, then they were guilty. No question! No doubt!


Gayle from Edmonton
said
0 0

"What about what the Liberal government knew for the first 4 years Canadain forces were in Afghanistan. Were there no prisoners transfer taking place during 2002 - 2006?" You cannot compare the two unless you have some evidence there was torture, and that torture was reported to the government of the day. The key here is not only that prisoners were tortured, but also that the torture was reported to the Harper government and they did nothing. Trying to turn this into an attack on the liberals is consistent with CPC strategy, but the attack is without any factual foundation.

Albertaboy111
said
0 0

"What about what the Liberal government knew for the first 4 years Canadain forces were in Afghanistan. Were there no prisoners transfer taking place during 2002 - 2006? Why do Mr. Colvins unfounded allegations only start a few months after the Conservatives took power?"Thats a good question. Let's have a public inquiry and we will be able to answer that and more.


Goldens
said
0 0

Much to do about nothing! The Liberals sent Canadian personnel to Afghanistan ill equipped to do the job and the CAF did a magnificent job. There is an ongoing problem at the prison that has been addressed. Just a short while back it was in the news that a girl was beaten in a jail here in Canada. If our system is not perfect how can you expect the prison system in Afghanistan to be perfect. They can only work at making the system better which they are doing. John Wilson Bridgetown NS


willowway
said
0 0

It is my understanding that Canada is not technically at war. Rather, we are taking sides and assisting one faction of what amounts to a civil war. We should get our troops out of there! Our opinion as to how and by whom that country is administered is irrelevant. Do I believe that Canada's troops handed over prisoners without any assurance as to the treatment they would be subjected to? Yes, they probably did.Do I care? No. Just bring them home.


Bill Mars
said
0 0

What kind of Canadians support the torture of detainees (especially innocents caught up in sweeps or tribal vendettas)? Apparently CONservatives do.

Ryan
said
0 0

The Liberal-NDP Coalition at work once again for all Canadians...This is a recycled issue that has been dealt with....Most Canadians don't care and it's reflected quite clearly in Liberal-NDP popular support.


blair
said
0 0

as a father who has four sons in the CAF and one currently in Afghanistan,,what do you suppose would happen if he was captured by the Taliban?? what?? no answer?? well i know , he knows, and so do most others.and in the end the Taliban would not be looking for any public inquiry.seems to me that the liberal and NDP, are in this for their own political good, nothing more.don't people realize, that when you are captured you are trained to lie like hell??Mr. Colvin really got conned it seems.. and why would he ait, all these years to come forth with these allegations?, something smells here


Dan
said
0 0

CDT said: "Canada has signed onto the Geneva convention which is very specific that there will be no transfer of detainees to countries that may toture them. "Fact: Yes, we did, however, fact, Geneva convention only applies to prisoners of war, and to the transfer of soldiers. It has never affected civilian criminals trying to pass off as soldiers. They're not soldiers, their terrorists, there's a key difference there look it up. That is how the American's have gotten away with Guantanamo.CDT says: "If Canada was indeed sending detainees (many of whom were ordinary villagers who got caught up sweeps of Talban partisans, and were guilty of nothing) to centers where they would be tortured, than Canada is in violation of the Geneva convention."Fact: Not so, these taliban fighters are not soldiers, therefore they are not bound by the Geneva convention, they routinely bomb their own people to try to get them to turn against the forces risking their lives to keep them safe, they also will use every tactic, including strapping bombs to kids, to get at our forces. They lack a rank structure, ethics code, and service number to fall under the geneva convention.Better luck siding with the Liberals next time =)


CMQ in NB
said
0 0

I saw the interview Mr Smith gave on Question Period. What he said was that he interviewed people and asked them questions. He did not say he was actually present when they were interrogated or tortured. You could tell he had no hard evidence other than here say because if he had the "hard" evidence he first said he had then he would not have flinched when asked who was more credible, Colvin or the government. I found that when he was asked this question his confidence suddenly slipped and he turned into a political sounding back tracker who seemed to be walking on thin ice, thats when the whole interview changed. If you are going to call into question someone's integrity then you better be prepared to be asked tough questions and when you are asked the tough questions you better not backtrack. All I know is that in war there is interrogation and some tactics may not suit our tastes here but war is "hell." I have never fought in a war because others have fought for my freedoms and continue to do so. I applaud our military both men and women who sacrifice so much for our country. Therefore before we go around on a "witch hunt" that can only hurt our soldiers, how about we get the facts straight then report. For Mr Smith to come out and say he has the facts and then to waffle on a question really destroys his credibility for me. It is too bad that good "news" reporting seems to be reduced to nothing more than mere tabloid. Let's get back to substantiating the facts then report, that's what is credible not this circus.


John E
said
0 0

Although warfare has changed dramatically since the Geneva Conventions of 1949, they are still considered the cornerstone of contemporary International Humanitarian Law. They protect combatants who find themselves removed from combat and considered prisoners of combat, and they protect civilians caught up in the zone of war. These treaties came into play for all recent international armed conflicts, including the War in Afghanistan (2001–present), the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the 2008 War in Georgia. Canada is a signatory of the Conventions and are legally, by treaty, and morally obligated to adhere to and enforce it. If not the signatory is obligated to investigate and deal with breaches.


Hiesh, Vancouver
said
0 0

International Law - what a concept! For your info. I proudly display the magnetic decal in support of our troops as I have a son in Afghanistan in the frontlines. Knowing the people back home support what they are doing does help the troops in the frontlines no matter if the war is popular or unpopular in general.

Peter Kamloops,B.C.
said
0 0

it is very sad that only Conservatives will stand up for Canada, I use to vote Liberal or NDP I now consider myself an independent and will vote for who best defends Canada and not bash them as so far that is the Conservatives.


jamie carleton place
said
0 0

war criminals ? not the Conservatives - please say it ain't so, Joe


Jeff Dion
said
0 0

The politicians will soon head for the hills, claiming the Military never told us about the torture. This smells like a Somalia - part 2. As a member of the military, I do not condone torture. I know of no one who does. That said, if anyone in the Forces knowingly sent prisoners to be tortured it would be a violation of the Geneva Conventions. I pray to God that we are as innocent as we claim. I do not want to see the entire military smeared for the actions of a few. The media has never done a good job of separating the bad members of the Military from the Military as a whole. There are over 50,000 of us and we are, by far, law abiding, good people.


Rose
said
0 0

Taliban fighters are not troops they are terrorists . I don't think they would think about or worry about the international laws or laws even of their own country. They don't even respect woman and children why would they treat our troops kindly ! Give your head a shake iggy or Jack you are supporting the terrorists by believing anything they say. They would give anything to get Canada to support them in their cause . Every thing our country stands for is at risk even our troops with stupid comments .from Iggy orJack Layton


RP
said
0 0

Make the basic deduction: Gen says more than once the transfer of prisoners was halted due to safety concerns. No kidding. Why were they stopped again? Need more proof, repeat the Gen's sentence a few more times. Why else would the inner circle of PM Harper, the present and past general, circle the wagons yet again to fight against the truth. Hello Somalia.

Doug @ BC
said
0 0

More and more it seems to me that the government did it's due diligence on this.If they stopped the transfer of prisoners when suggestions of turture arose,they,in fact,were living up to their duties.Tranfers then resumed after our military was assured there would be no torture. Power hungry Liberals and panty waisted NDP'ers can spin this any way they want.I'm quite sure they won't let the truth get in the way of an attempt to put more left wing pacifists in the drivers seat in Ottawa. For those who don't read the papers or watch the news,there is a war going on there.Aside from lies,lies,and bloody lies,the country is filled with well meaning citizens of Afghanistan,all wanting to know more about what is going on every day.It should come as no shock to anyone that the rumour mill is rife with lies,half truths,and false allegations.The media is hardly the right place to be if you're on a fact finding mission. I'm no fan of Mr.Harper's.But he has a tough job to do.I cooemd him for the support he gives to our military,and I trust those close to the situation to do all they can,their due iligence,to ensure that prisoners are not tortured.This IS NOT A PARTISAN isse.We all want the same result. We sent people into harms way.We cannot expect them to enter a street fight with terrorists and criminals,or be micro managing their every move.Nor should we expect them to abide by Marcus of Queensbury rules when confronted by thugs who think nothing of killing women,or throwing acid in the faces of little girls. Harper is showing leadership by asking the Generals in charge to do their jobs.Both he and I trust them to do that.They are our best and brightest.. PRO PATRIA


Dick Richards
said
0 0

Just consider a public inquiry to be a stimulus package for the medialegal profession It can have its own website with a link to Stephen Harper playing the piano


Linda in Vancouver
said
0 0

Once again the real story is being subject to the biases of the Harper Haters.I wonder if the'll be lined up to retract their outrageous accusations when it is actually shown that their horror stories are wrong. This reminds me of the outrage they expressed when a African Canadian citizen was stranded In Africa because she could not verify her identity.When more information became available,even the left wing CBC news showed that there was more to the story than this woman was willing to admit.And if fact,security cameras at the airport suggest that she was NOT the woman who presented her passport to airport security,There is enough evidence available to suggest that her SISTER tried to enter Canada by using this womans passport.It now appears that the Harper Haters go that wrong too. Canadians are such suckers.It's nice to be able to trust people,but that trust has to be placed in the right places.Before we jump to our usual conclusions,perhaps we should adopt the "trust but verify" principle before we start crucifying our military or our government. I don't see any real intent to lie here.Both the diplomat and the government genuinely believe what they're saying.It's just that someone may be genuinely mistaken.Now they're working to rectify that.Isn't that how they're supposed to work? We should wait for that..But not expect government to telegraph all of their intentions.Our troops are far safer if the enemy has doubts of it's own.I think whether you're Liberal,NDP,or outright Communist,every Canadian should want that.


International Law - what a concept!
said
0 0

With all due respect for your service CF Officer, I also happen to have a degree in political science. The term "International Law" as I use it - is not a reference to "law" in the normal sense of the term. It is a reference to the looser, morally binding agreements that define conduct between nations. You are correct in your reference to the Geneva Convention and the NDA, however it is correct to say that the Geneva convention falls under the loose characterization "International Law". Also with respect to the father who supports his son. I must respect that. My point is that many slap the yellow ribbon on they're car and absolve themselves of the horror of war for others. I am guessing that 7 out of 10 people can't even point out Afghanistan on a map, 8 out of 10 can't tell you why we are there and 9 out of 10 can't tell you why we are REALLY there. Since Vietnam paved the way, war is ALWAYS fought for profit. Otherwise we wouldn't limit our fight against "evil and injustice" to places that are rich in oil, gas and drugs - and provided strategic advantage for the invasion of Iran - but that is another story"


Bill
said
0 0

Why is it that CTV simply cannot understand what it has been told 100 times a day. Does it not listen. The Defence Minister has been telling you exactly the same thing that General Natynczyk has said at every opportunity. As much as it seems to be the case, it is difficult to believe that CTV can be just plain stupid. Rather, it appears that CTV is so caught up in its political positioning on behalf of the Liberal Party that it cannot see and it does not listen. To consider that our incredible men and women in Afghanistan are giving themselves so completely, including death and injury, and the Liberals, their mouthpiece CTV and the opposition parties are playing these unbelievable political games, is reprehensible and disgusting.


kate
said
0 0

Not to worry, there is fabulous news at the Guardian tonight. Testimoney and evidence is finally going to be heard that paves the way for Tony Blair to be charged with War Crimes for his part in misleading the public about Iraq. Hopefully he'll take down Bush and Cheney and the rest of the neocons next!! Patience is a virtue and finally these criminals will have their day in court!


cam
said
0 0

Jeff DionIt is partisans that give the impression part the population is anti military to gain political advantage.It is a lie!There are differences on how parties think the military should be used but the vast majority applaud yours and others service.


Fred Victoria BC
said
0 0

Here you are, busy helping Afghan society to become humane, respecting their women and children, getting a way from the tortures freak show of the Taliban. What do you get ? Body parts of your comrades and friends all over your face. Is a little pain for these diabolical monsters justified? Should we give silent support to our soldiers that transferred the evil out of their site?


KImO
said
0 0

Isn't it a little strange that Ignatieff's supporters are the ones doing a number on Stephen Harper re Interrogating Prisoners in Afghanistan, when in fact, Ignatieff admits acceptance of "COERCIVE INTERROGATION" in his personal writings. Check out the internet, or ask former Liberal Leader Stephan Dion's Wife. This is sickening.


Joe C
said
0 0

I think that these allegations are worth investigating by any means necessary. If even our highest ranking soldier is saying there is something to investigate, we need to do it.I don't care who implemented the policy of handing over soldiers, as long as those who have been found to break the law are prosecuted. Full stop.


charlie
said
0 0

After reading this, and many other, articles on this issue, I come to a conclusion that the concern of the Opposition parties is more motivated by a chance to tar the Government than by any real concern for the issues. Self-interest taints the purity of their motives - and does a dis-service to the Forces, and supports those who would harm them and this country. We can choose our causes and battles - we have to ask ourselves why they chose this one. Is this really a concern for human rights? Did Bob Rae personally look into this in any depth? So far, he says there "may be something to the allegations" so let's have an inquiry to see if there is anything concrete - at whatever cost - as this is so important a matter. This is a far cry from "there is evidence of mis-treatment" and the Government knew so let's have an inquiry to see who knew and did not act. If things go south, of course, the Opposition can take a position that they went with the best information they had but, in the meanwhile, the circus plays out to no advantage or conclusion except whatever partisan one may be spun. No one knows whether the prisoners were tortured or not except the Afghans. I am sure that the Afghans would deny it - if they can stop laughing at being asked the question. Too bad the Opposition cannot see that if they are seeking the "villan" in this play that it may be the Afghan authorities, not our troops, but that would not be as easy as lobbing accusations and pontificating about lofty principles when you can embarass your political opponents. Joe McCarthy would be proud of the approach taken.


Alex Roberts (Halifax)
said
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“Charlie†noted: "The (Liberal's) pursuit of power at any cost makes me gag"That's rich my myopic friend, considering some of the shenanigans the Tories have been up to. You may recall the "dirty tricks" hand book that was given to Tory committee members in order to help them to disrupt and stymie meetings; the absurd level of pork-barrelling that is going on with regard to the stimulus package whereby Tory ridings are receiving absurdly disproportionate shares of the swag; the ham-fisted and borderline unconstitutional lengths Harper went to stave of a confidence vote; offering Chuck Cadmen a bribe in order to get his vote in a non-confidence vote; the scramble for the sound bite and the contrived piano solo with Yo-Yo Ma; the breaking of their own fixed-date election; Peter MacKay’s disgraceful bullyboy tactics with regards to trashing Mr. CorvinThese Tories are as gag-inducing as any party in Canadian political history.


Jim from Ottawa
said
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Can't say how fed up and disgusted I am by the navel gazing of the far left liberal, terrorist sympathizing media and their minions. Let's make some things clear here. The vast majority of "real" Canadians including myself could care less about what torture pactices might have happened by afghans who have prisoners or suspected terrorists and real terrorists turned over to them. It just does not matter. Canada has much more serious problems to address and here they are:
The extreme anti christian and anti canadian stance taken by the mcguinty liberal government.
The wasteful word called multiculturalism.
The discrimination called visible minority hiring rights particularly in well paying secure jobs such as government.
Special interest groups.
The garbage charter document.
Wasteful spending and give aways of hard earned tax payers to the Arars and lawsuits from canadians of convenience.
The sham and waste of giving welfare and refugee payouts to people who never worked or contributed a day in their life to canada and were only let in due to canada pathetic lax immigration policies.
Let's get our priorities straight.



Observer
said
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@eddieoJust when exactly did Bush admit he was a war-criminal? By that logic we should have also barred Castro from attending the funeral for his buddy Trudeau, because of his decades of human rights abuses. Saddam Hussein used chemical agents on civilian populations making him a war criminal too. But I suppose that those are different circumstances not worthy of your anger.@RyanDo you think that we only started to take prisoners after we signed a handover agreement? Do you not remember the famous photo of JTF2 leading prisoners off a helicopter, followed by the buffoonish Liberal defense minister of the day beaming with pride because we could see that Canadian troops were in the action and that we could tell by the fact that they were wearing green uniforms in the desert? Where do you think those prisoners ended up? I doubt that the Liberal government gave them a nice semi-detached bungalow somewhere in the suburbs (although it wouldn't surprise me if someone in Chretien's cabinet floated the idea). We were in Kandahar during the first 6 months of our involvement in Afghanistan, before transferring troops to Kabul, do you think that no more prisoners were taken during that time or subsequently in Kabul? If you do, dig your head out of the sand!@International Law - what a concept! As CF Officer pointed out, your allusions to frontline service seem a little thin. If they are charging the 9-11 plotters in the USA as criminals, why should taliban detainees be considered enemy soldiers under the Geneva Convention? In reality they are transferred over to Afghan authorities for the crimes that they committed on Afghan soil. As for your cliched conspiracy theory about Afghan pipelines and war for profit, just how stable and profitable is a pipeline through a warzone? Just how many American oil companies are benefitting from the invasion of Iraq? The last I heard, when they opened up the process to bid on the development of Iraqi oilfields, the only country that made a deal was China. Furthermore, if this was about profit and pipelines, we would have taken care of the fashionable cause of oil rich Sudan or the pesky problem of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela a long time ago. Save the conspiracy theories for the "alternative media" chatrooms.


Terry Wiens
said
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Possibly because he wasn't assigned to the Afgan position until 2006.


Pat - Ottawa
said
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Joe C said, “I think that these allegations are worth investigating by any means necessary.” Great Joe, please forward your credit card number. If you want an inquiry so much you can pay for it. I think it is a waste of my taxes.


V aka Layton in Moncton
said
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Thumbs up or down, eddieo is right. Regardless of political stripe in office then or now, a war crime is a war crime. If we do not investigate this PUBLICLY, we lose the moral authority to criticize such pillars of human rights like China, Syria, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar. I for one do not want to be seen in THAT light. George Bush IS a war criminal as he authorized torture by his own troops. Harper and MacKay may be war criminals, for allowing prisoners to be handed over to Afghan officials, who would use torture. The law is the law, and if you haven't read it, please do. Agree or not, thumbs up, thumbs down, the law IS the law. And I have read it.


Joe C
said
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Re Pat - Ottawa: That's a bit of a low blow. As long as there is reasonable question on WHETHER OR NOT OUR POLITICIANS BROKE THE LAW (which there is), why wouldn't you support an inquiry? Especially considering so many groups (with nothing to gain, I must add) have raised these allegations.


Ken Conrad
said
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My son served there for 7 months. I could care less what happened to a bunch of terrorists who were turned over to the elected government. If beating the crap out of them would save my son's life so be it. If the Canadian Forces didn't turn them over to the government; pray tell what would they do with them. Give them back their weapons and turn them loose to kill more Canadian soldiers; or maybe turn them over to the Americans to be intermed in Cuba. The media and opposition are making a big deal out of this; but I'm afraid that 90% of Canadians could care less; especially parents of soldiers serving over there.


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