CTV News | Detainee treatment a concern 'for some time': MacKay

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Detainee treatment a concern 'for some time': MacKay

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CTV National News: Todd Battis on the firestorm
After suggesting Richard Colvin, the diplomat whose allegations about Afghan detainee transfers sparked a firestorm, is a Taliban dupe, the defence minister eased up on his attacks.
CTV News Channel: Peter Mackay and Robert Gates
Defence Minister Peter Mackay and U.S. Secretary of Defence Robert Gates both say the federal and U.S. government's realize big challenges are ahead in Afghanistan and they are committed to securing the safety of all Afghan citizens and solid defence relations with the country.
Power Play: Gar Pardy on the allegations
The former director general of Consular Affairs alleges the government is 'absolutely' trying to cover up it's knowledge of Afghan detainee abuse and is now involved in 'gutter politics.'
Power Play: U.S. Sen. John McCain
U.S. Sen. John McCain, who was a victim of prisoner abuse in Vietnam, weighed in on the allegations of detainee abuse, saying such things often propel insurgent recruitment.
Power Play: MPs debate detainee issue
Conservative MP Laurie Hawn, Liberal MP Ujjal Dosnajh and NDP MP Paul Dewar debate the allegations of Afghan prisoner torture and it's implications on the government and Canadian Forces.
CTV News Channel: Allan Cutler, whistleblower
The former bureaucrat who blew the whistle on the Liberal sponsorship scandal discusses the pressure that has been placed on ex-diplomat Richard Colvin for his testimony on the Afghan detainee treatment scandal.
CTV News Channel: Jack Harris, NDP defence critic
The NDP defence critic says despite the governments objections over Richard Colvin's claims he still believes an inquiry should be launched and says the issue is not about Colvin but whether there was a real risk of torture to detainees in Afghanistan.
CTV News Channel: Tom Clark on the fallout
The host of CTV's Power Play says despite Richard Colvin's senior position within the federal government, the Tories will continue to try and tear down his credibility, but many are wondering what's in it for Colvin and what is his motivation behind the allegations?
Canada AM: Graeme Smith, Globe and Mail
The federal government has turned the tables on a senior diplomat and are questioning his credibility over allegations of an alleged Afghan torture cover-up.
Canada AM: Jane Taber, Globe and Mail
The co-host of CTV's Question Period says Peter Mackay's attack on Richard Colvin was a strategic defence, but she also notes that Colvin did the right thing by revealing his findings.
CTV National News: Roger Smith on the response
Defence Minister Peter MacKay responded to the allegations made by an ex-diplomat that Canada knew Afghan detainees were being tortured by attacking the credibility of the evidence supporting the claim.

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Nov. 20 2009 2:35 PM ET

The treatment of detainees at the hands of their Afghan captors has been a concern "for some time," and Ottawa wants to help that government improve its human rights record, says Defence Minister Peter MacKay.

"The issue around the handling of detainees by Afghans...has been of concern for some time," he told reporters at a news conference in Halifax on Friday.

MacKay said Ottawa routinely compares notes with other NATO countries to see how they transfer detainees to Afghan authorities.

"The reality is this is a responsibility of the Afghan authorities that we want to enhance and support. We've made decisions in the past...to halt the transfer of detainees when credible allegations have come forward."

MacKay said Canada has invested heavily in the Afghan justice system and corrections centres and has worked to put in place "better practices for their handling of detainees."

"That's what we're there to do, to increase their capacity so that they can have a better human rights situation and obviously adhere more with international conventions and improve their standards," MacKay said. "That's very much what we're there to do."

U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who was present at the same press conference in Halifax, was also asked if the United States had concerns about the treatment of detainees by Afghan authorities.

But Gates deferred to MacKay, saying he did not learn of the issue until he picked up a Canadian newspaper on Friday morning.

MacKay previously said that the testimony of Richard Colvin - the Washington-based intelligence officer and former diplomat who says that likely all detainees handed over to Afghan forces in 2006-2007 were tortured -- was an ill-informed "suspect source" and painted him as a Taliban dupe.

But when asked about the doubt that he had cast on Colvin's allegations on Friday, MacKay said his remarks weren't "personal" in nature.

Colvin testified before the House of Commons special committee on Afghanistan on Wednesday, where he detailed his allegation of the prisoner abuse that he believed was taking place at the hands of Afghan authorities from 2006-2007.

Globe and Mail reporter Graeme Smith told CTV's Canada AM that Colvin was "somebody the Canadian government obviously trusts," who currently holds a sensitive position as Canada's senior intelligence liaison in Washington.

"He's a senior Canadian official and this is probably not the last of it that we've seen, in terms of senior officials throwing accusations back and forth because we're talking about war crimes here. And the blame for all this is percolating upwards in the system and it's going to be a question of who knew what when," said Smith, who has reported extensively on Afghanistan.

Since Colvin's testimony before a House of Commons special committee earlier this week, opposition members have begun campaigning loudly for a public inquiry into the torture issue.

NDP defence critic Jack Harris said an inquiry is necessary because the government's position on Colvin's testimony is "not sustainable."

"I think it's pretty clear that Mr. Colvin's statements, that Mr. Colvin's reports that were made did have credibility, they were based on a variety of things including intelligence reports from other agencies, local human rights agencies," Harris told CTV News Channel during an interview from Ottawa.

In the House of Commons on Friday, Liberal MP Ralph Goodale made a similar argument for having a public inquiry.

"Yesterday, the defence minister was out to shoot the messenger, but the more he called Richard Colvin a liar, the more the minister contradicted himself," Goodale said.

"After four years of denials, he now admits that he did, in fact, receive and read at least one of Richard Colvin's reports. He also admits that at least part of Colvin's story has been corroborated by the Red Cross, the Canadian ambassador and the Canadian Forces."

Goodale then challenged the government to explain why it won't "help Canadians get the whole truth in this matter through a full, independent judicial inquiry?"

In response, Transport Minister John Baird said Colvin did not have any substantial evidence to support the allegations ha made.

"I think it's important to note that in his testimony before the committee earlier this week, Mr. Colvin confirmed that he never witnessed abuse first-hand," Baird said.

He added that much of Colvin's information was second or third-hand, or in the worst case "information that came directly from the Taliban."

"He won't even identify the sources for which he makes these allegations and that's unfortunate," he said.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Ron from NS
said
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For anyone who is standing by the Conservatives on this issue, you support torture. Torture is illegal, no matter who the person. For those who support torture or don't care, how would you feel if it was your son/daughter who was being tortured by the Taliban? I think you would be against torture then wouldn't you.Conservative supporters, give you head a shake.My Canada doesn't support torture and respects human rights. Does your Canada do the same?


Portes
said
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Something strange in Colvins statements. I have my doubts about what I heard yesterday. Didn't we already go through this serveral months ago, why drag it out again. It will not serve our troops in Afghanistan any good, and I hope that none of them are killed by the loose mouths in our Parliment. If they do, then the people who want glory for themselves I hope they suffer everytime they see another soldier die. Sometimes in war you had better to keep your mouth shut than to blast it all over the world, that is how we won WW2, by not blabbing


Ron from NS
said
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McKay, as leader of the PCs, reneged on the Orchard deal. He wasn't to be trusted then and should not be trusted now.

Barb Bull Lake,NB
said
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What next is the Libs & NDP going to try to do to hurt Mr. Harper , I can't believe that they would sink so low that they would take the Taliban side doesn't this show that they are gasping at straws don't sink so low if they want an election defeat the government and let the people deside who they want to run this country also the media is trying so hard to take down the harper government they go right along with the Libs & NDP.

CMQ IN NB
said
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My only thought is this.... If this guy had access to MP's and other officials directly, face to face then why did he wait and send letters and emails? If something so high priority was going on then why didn't he share this openly? No one is denying he had access to people higher up, not even CTV! This alone makes one question his integrity. So did he get back to his cushy office and think, "Gee, Peter M and I were having such a wonderful time at dinner, I forgot." I find that really hard to believe. Anyone who feels passionate about something speaks about it first and foremost. That is why I find his credibility lacking. It's not what the news says, MPs, Lib or Con, but what this guy didn't say when he had the chance to say it directly....


John In Edmonton
said
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1. Did the Military violate any international agreements in turning over the prisoners? No.

2. Is Canada the current legal government of Afganistan? No.

3. Will the current leadership there answer to international courts? No.

4. When we leave there will things be different? No. This whole thing stinks but it is what it is.


James Isherwood
said
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Two questions:

1) What does Mr Colvin personally have to gain by what he is exposing ?
2) What has the Goverment gain or protect by discrediting Mr Colvin?


N.D. Peer
said
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Look, I don't think people are seeing the big picture here.. Somehow I just can't seem to get past the 'war crimes' statement in the article. If war crimes were committed,, it was under the watch of Hillier was it not? If he was the main guy over Canadian forces HE should have had at LEAST the the same information as Colvin..Was it not his duty to report this back to government? Surely there must be a record of this.I guess I need to go out and purchase his book,, the truth may be there......


The Man
said
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I don't believe torture is right but I also don't believe Canada should be held responsible for the actions of the Afghans. If you have an issue take it up with the Afghan government. Of course the Canadians are going to hand over their prisoners, what else can they do? Open up their own Gitmo? Wouldn't the Liberals just love that.Bottom line, Why make it look like Canada's the one doing the torturing? If these allegations are true, then an inquiry should be launched into the Afghan goverment, not us.


Mike
said
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It's all about plausible deniability . The truth no longer matters to any of the players in this mess.


Ron from NS
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CMQ IN NB: It's pretty simple why he didn't say those things in person. Because he knew that if he didn't have a written/emailed record of the exchange, then it would be denied that he said anything. Given the current governments track record of denying anything, even when it is recorded, is spectacular in it's cover ups.


Jim
said
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Colvin is credible.He did his job.Harper knew.He is currently posted at Canada's embassy in Washington as a senior intelligence officer. The embassy is hardly a backwater on the Canadian diplomatic circuit. It is not the kind of venue where rogue officials are normally posted until they can be quietly put to pasture.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said
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For all the right and wrong reasons you can imagine, this bad smell isn't going away until there's a full accounting of what was reported in writing to the government, when it was reported, to whom it was reported, and what the facts are/were surrounding the allegations of torture. If MacKay manages to dismissively talk his way out of some sort of basic investigation or formal inquiry, and make this ordeal disappear, then he'll amount to one impressive Political Magician. (For the moment, I'm reserving judgment, as I know that the Taliban has alway been quite effective in playing with the hearts and minds of those they try to dominate, by crafting and spreading lies. "Stories" about torture don't equate to proven evidence.)


Bill in the Hat
said
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With complicated he said, he said issues like this it is sometimes a good idea to take a step back and try to determine the motivation of those involved.What would Mr. Colvin hope to accomplish by making false allegations? He certainly won't make money from this, it definitely won't enhance his diplomatic career (that will probably be over soon)... I can't see any reason someone of his stature would step forward to make false allegations. Mr. Colvin is in fact so credible and so good at his job that he has been repeatedly promoted in past several years and now holds a very important security job at the Canadian embassy in Washington.... interesting enough all of these promotion were by the very people who claim he is now unreliable and not credible.What motivations would those who are dismissing Mr. Colvin have to "miss-remember"? Reputations, careers and financial security are at risk for many, many people if Mr. Colvin's assertions are correct.At the very least this needs a closer look; attempts to sweep it under the carpet just make people look less and less credible.


The Peter (Lack of) Principle
said
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Please as if I will believe Little Petey Mackay, a CAREER LIAR/POLITICIAN over Colvin a CAREER DIPLOMAT (why would he want to sabotage his own career unless he was ashamed of what the Canadian government was condoning)! Mackay already told a boldface lie when he sold out the Progressive Conservatives to the Reformed Alliance, so he's already established a precedent.For all those saying it's ok to torture Taliban, the problem is that the 'detainees' aren't all Taliban. If a grenade was lobbed from the direction of a house and they round up 10 ppl from 3 neighbouring houses, all are turned over (whether or not only 9 actually live there).Btw - anyone ever heard of the Canadian Airborne and the Somalia Affair? And that was during a peacekeeping mission ... STAND UP FOR CANADA!


Gord. Robson, Nova Scotia
said
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Colvin did not report this face to face at the time!He admitted that his information was second and third hand! He also admitted that he did not know if it really was Canadians that handed over theprisoners! Why are we listening to Talibanprisoners information (second & third hand), they are terrorists! These prisoners are often released the sameday and really have not had much time to be tortured! What if there was a case of torture andthe Canadians saw evidence? What could we do? It is not our country! Tom Clark (Mr. Liberal) appears to be on a witchhunt to "get " the Conservatives. I can not figure out why he appears to support the welfare ot terrrorists and not back our hard working government/military? This is going to backfire on the Liberals and NDPbecause most Canadians do not feel Terroristshave any rights or care what happens to them, remember they are terrorists who kill the innocent!


Andrew in Alberta
said
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So the Lib's want another public inquiry? As we all know, public inquiries solve every thing. Adscam: Public Inquiry, millions spent, people went to jail and all problems were solved.....Mulrooney: Public Inquiry, millions spent, people went to jail and all problems were solved....no wait a minute, other than wasting millions NOTHING WAS SOLVED. Can't these guys for once, stop slamming our troops, stop making allegations based on "hearsay" and "I think I saw" and get on with their job they are getting big bucks to do.....If you're so concerned about the Taliban then get over to Afghanistan and monitor the situation yourself!


Saskatoon guy
said
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Peter McKay is a fool. There is something bad that comes out in the daylight, what does he do he calls this guy names, and says there is nothing to worry about. How bout do your job, do the public enquiry and clear your government's name. But No Call names sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away. Seems to be a Conservative Cowardly way of thinking. I find that even the people that vote for this party are cowards also.


Dan
said
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The Canadians have been under a lot more combat strain than any other national force. They're trying to stay alive and it is quite understandable that they didn't keep tabs on what happens to detainees after they're handed over. Personally though, I don't care what the 'rules' are. If I catch someone who tried to kill me and perhaps killed some of my brothers-in-arms, I'd hope that the b@st@rd got a little torture. You people have such ignorant high ideals but have absolutely no idea what the real world is - especially a real war-zone. War isn't nice and historically, the only wars that have been won decisively have been the one where the victor deployed tactics at least just as brutal as their enemy employed - Example - the carpet bombing of German cities and dropping a couple A-bombs on Japan. It was these types of brutal events that brought an end to war. If Canada, and by extenstion, NATO want to win in Afganistan, they must become much more brutal in their tactics. If they are not willing to do that, then they WILL fail. That is a fact.


Ron from NS
said
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The Man: If you know that it is almost certain that someone is going to be tortured and you hand then over to those people, then you are just as guilty as those that tortured.The Dutch contacted the Red Cross before they handed over captured Afghans so the Red Cross could follow those detainees so they wouldn't be tortured. Why didn't Canada do the same? From what I read, it was policy not to contact the Red Cross. Why?


Sub Mitter
said
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Great Lord Harper must return quickly and save us from the stupidity of MacKay and Cannon. They are not supreme masters of lying like Lord Harper.


Myles NWO
said
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Ron from NS, and what would the taliban do to our soldiers? would they respect our human rights? no they wouldnt. now what else are we supposed to do with prisoners? I bet you would like it if we brought back the death penalty wouldnt you? hahaha


Love is all you need
said
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Torture is terrible. No one doubts the integrity of our men and women deployed to Afghanistan. Accountability was suppose to be essential, according to Conservatives. Which brings us to the faith of a wistleblower. For his ethic as much as his values, Mr. Colvin should be treated with respect, dignity and fairness. Peter McKay should take a step back and a deep breath... Either Minister McKay was deceived by some of his closest collaborators (senior bureaucrats) hiding various reports and emails, or he doesn't have the intellectual capability/rectitude to assume such important duties on behalf of Canada. It would be terrible if Minister McKay heard references to "torture" during briefings without requesting a thorough investigation and detailed report. Peter McKay would then be seen as having betrayed the trust placed in him by his boss, prime minister Harper. After all, "torture" must be a work raising alarm bells during any DFAIT or DND meetings... But, if Peter McKay didn't know, like prime minister Harper will surely contend that he didn't know about Mr. Colvin's reports, then there needs to be an urgent and INDEPENDENT review of any and all senior bureaucrats who could derail accountability to Cabinet. Mandarins manage the army and even our national police. But, these senior bureaucrats are NEVER subject to outside and independant scrutiny. There probably has to be a public inquiry in regard to Mr. Colvin's testimony. Or, we may want to consider a Royal Commission of Inquiry in regard to the abuse of power by senior public servants. Across the board. Would be costly. But, not as much as if we continue to allow Mandarins to run the show with our money.


Bill in the Hat
said
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Unbelievable!!!! Do all you thumbs-downers really believe that getting more information and either proving or disproving Mr. Colvin's allegations is a bad idea?"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."


Portes
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I want to know how many of the people who are posting on this site have actually been in a war zone? It seems like they all have. I have and I know that when you are in the middle of a conflict that last thing you worry about is the emeny. There are two things in war you either get killed or you killl someone else, that is the long and short of it. it is time to stop worrying abou the poor Tlaiban who would not hesitate to kill out troops any way they can. I really have no sympathy for them, they should all rot in hell and with the Politicans who are backing them. I am sick and tired of people feeling sorry for those who want eveil on our troops and all of the Western world. If that is what they want let us let the Taliban have Canada and then they will change their tune


André in Ontario
said
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Conservatives can't be trusted on anything. Since they've been in power nothing but lies has come from this Republican/ George Bush wanna be. Then you have the Conservative sheeple that are just as bad. What an embarrassment to Canada & all Canadian across the world. Shame on you sheeple.


CON-artists
said
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Typical Conservative pattern and practice adopted from the Republicans:Don't like the message, then we'll attempt to discredit and smear the reputation of the messenger.Unfortunately, for Harper and Mackay, they've just been caught again and reprimanded by the Speaker for spreading lies about anti-Semitism and in this case, the diplomat has a spotless career. Candians don't take kindly to Con-artists like Mackay and Harper.


charlie
said
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Watching the circus over this set of "revelations" which are not revelations but rather rumour, innuendo, re-hashing of old and unestablished allegations, and that old stand-by "common knowledge that everybody knew" - I am reminded of some previous acts which were based, not on demonstrable fact, but on what some people with an axe to grind tried to turn into fact. It reminds me of trying to turn lead into gold - lots of attempts, everybody knew it could be done if they only had the Philosopher's Stone, but no solid results. The believers ascribed that lack of success to failure to find the Philosophers Stone - not to a flaw in the basic premise. Children once learned that spreading stories was like throwing a bag of feathers to the wind and then trying to gather them up - you can never collect them all and undo the damage. Some damage will always be done once an allegation, no matter how little foundation it may have, is made especially, when there is a lack of responsibility on the part of those banging the drum. Some people will believe any story, especially if they desperately want to believe it or have some interest or something to gain by believing it, or at least purporting to do so. Joseph McCarthy tried to convince many that there was a vast Communist conspiracy in the western world, and many believed - the hysteria, and continued feeding of that hysteria by self-serving politicians who misrepresented any event which could be held up as "evidence", together with the fear of being labeled as a Communist sympathizer if you spoke out, trumped any common sense or rational examination of the facts for a long period. He may be long dead, but his spirit tries to live on.


Colin
said
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Correct me if i am wrong, Rick Hillier, all the other generals, officers, ncos, enlisted soldiers and rcmp officers that had anything to do with afghanistan are not only lying, but are war criminals. These thousands of people have kept this torture story a secret and one person who did not see but heard from "credible sources" that torture was taking place is to be believed. Some questions for him, why did he not notify every government representave of these "credible sources", if that failed, why did he not notify the news media and the United Nations right away. If torture did take place, he is just as guilty. It is interesting that this now comes to light after Iggy brouht back chretins henchmen, you know the ones that brought us the E.I money disapperance, the long gun registery, who directed taxpayers money into the pockets of the Liberal party plus many other thefts and lies to the canadian people. Now we have the opposition parties saying that not only are the members of Canada military lying but so are the rcmp and that they are all war criminals. Shame on them. Does Colvin have a grudge against the military and rcmp, was he passed up for promotion or is he buddies with the oppisition. The only credible witness's are the members of our armed forces and the rcmp. No politician or news reporter even comes close to being that credible


Tom Hawley
said
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Ron N.S.I am with you on some of your points.The one that I am not is the one where you commented that if one supports the Tories than they support torture.I believe the ones that support the Tories,some are denying that this could have taken place.Barb Bull,Lake N.B.According to reports any info regarding torture was to be given verbally .As for why Mr.Colvin is speaking now ,only he knows.Perhaps his conscience got to him.The Man: No one is making it look like Canada is doing the torture.But if torture was/is happening ,does it not defeat the purpose of what is being fought for ? Why did we have brave women and men die and continue to fight if people in our government knew and hid the fact that perhaps prisoners and in particular innocent people were/are being tortured?Mr.MacKay in response acted more like a lawyer than a parliamentarian while being questioned .I too question ,why did Mr.Colvin get such a promotion for being such a "dupe"? Mr.MacKay was not able to answer this question.


Ron from NS
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Myles NWO: Are you saying that we should be no better than the Taliban? I hope that is not what you are saying. Are you saying that you support torture? I hope that is not what you are saying.My Canada is better than the Taliban, I guess yours isn't.As for the death penalty, I don't want my Canada to start executing people. There are over 100 cases in the US of people on death row that were proved to be innocent, how many were innocent who didn't get proven. Are you willing to have innocent people executed? I'm not.


Bill in the Hat
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Quoting PortesI really have no sympathy for them [Taliban], they should all rot in hell and with the Politicans who are backing them._______________________________________I do not believe that any of our politicians are supporting the Taliban. They are supporting the principles of civilized democracies. Many things distinguish civilized democracies like Canada from barbaric hoodlums like the Taliban, the regimes in Sudan, Uganda and Rwanda and the Nazis. One of the most important things that sets us apart is how we behave in war. As much as I support our troops and also believe that the Taliban "should rot in hell", we are civilized democracy and MUST behave like one.


Fred
said
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Attacking a civil servant personally for telling the truth serves no good purpose for the government .What would have been better is simply asking Colvin for evidence - like a video interview - that could be investigated. Since he didn't do that, the answer would be simple, that he has no credible corroborated evidence.Attacking a person personally makes the government look weak.


len
said
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Amazing how under a Liberal government the right took every word uttered by a whistle blower as gospel but now categorize anyone who tells tales of the Harper regime as traitors to the cause.This man gains nothing but stands the chance of ruining his career by stepping forward.Yet Tory supporters continue to slander him.Sad.No wonder you all like to harp about the Taliban so much.You have so much in common!


bert
said
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If the opposition is sure of their facts let them topple the government. Call an election on the reputation of the government. If not let's just get the hell out of Afganistan and let them stew in thier own muck. We are just wasting Canadian lives and money and reputation on a lost cause.


Albertaboy111
said
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1. Did the Military violate any international agreements in turning over the prisoners? No "Actually yes. If they were tortured it is called the Geneva convention. You cannot torture the enemy just becuase you believe them to be barbarians. Hitler attempted to dehumanize his enemies to the same goals. Way to go . Torture Yay. Kill all them taliban and the innocents who live there, who could on eday be taliban. Ya thats it.


al from calgary
said
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To Ron from NS You said what if it was your son or daughter, well if it was my son and he was doing what the Taliban are doing then whatever he gets he deserves. Now if it was your son or daughter who was about to be beheaded or killed by the Taliban would you support torture in order to save them, or would you just let them be murdered for your principles. I hope this gets posted and I hope that I get an answer back from you.PS I find it odd that every single prisoner was tortured, but then again the left would trust hteir word before they take the word of the Canadian troops. HOW SAD IS THAT


Layton in Moncton
said
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While it may appear that Ron from NS has some sort of bone to pick with Peter MacKay, he is absolutely correct. MacKay sold out his own party to the Reform Party after avowing that he wouldn't do just that. But I am absolutely AGHAST that ANYONE could defend the government on this one. There is no way that any government could look at these allegations and not call an inquiry. If the Government is not guilty or complicit with torture by handing over detainees to be tortured, then call the inquiry. If there is nothing to hide, stop hiding. And to address those who feel everything is hunky dory because 'it's the Taliban, and they use torture', please allow me to pry open your minds to the light of day:1) Since when did this country lower itself to the level of the Taliban? 2) Is it conceivable that we may have turned over innocent people to Afghan officials with a world wide reputation for torture? After all, I'm pretty sure the Taliban don't have special uniforms and badges that set them apart.3) And finally if the top echelons of government and military were 'shielded' from this high ranking diplomats reports... shouldn't we find out by whom? And then prosecute them for what they are, war criminals. Only an inquiry would or could find the truth in the matter. I say the opposition should demand in inquiry in the form of a confidence vote. The Tories can either call an inquiry or they can lose what they cherish most... their power.


carl
said
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I see Rick Hillier is giving I don't recall routine.Was expecting plenty of this from politicians but was hoping for better from our military.


kblake in Ontario
said
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For those comentators making this a partisan issue you couldn't be more wrong. This is about a record of a Canadian government that turns it's back on recognized treaties and then tries to cover it up. Our Government, by not acting on the reports placed our armed forces in international legal harms way by not providing orders to prevent the torture of human beings. It is a proven fact that tourture achieves the opposite effect of its intent. We also need to be very cognizant of the fact that this behaviour is one of the very reasons we are in Afghanistan. As Canadians we were appalled at the behaviour of the government of the time towards its own people. It is Mr. MaKay that can not be trusted and it is appalling that the government would defend its actions by discrediting a well respected Canadian diplomat.


olli
said
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Personally, I think this diplomat is creating controversy where it does not exist. Canada performed it duties properly and cannot be denied by the evidence. Canada did not employ any method of torture and is innocent. If the new detainees, their country of origin tortures thereafter, it weighs heavy on their global reputation not ours. I am tired of Canada being maligned for issues that are not relevant to the Country. The detainees Country of origin should answer for their actions, be on trial and pay for their own inquiries into their behavior. We are spending money on issues that are not Canadian, and that is ridiculous.


Rene - Vasey
said
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I am sick of hearing about the claims by Richard Colvin. He uses the term "likely tortured" - in other words, he has no proof and is only looking for sensationism to get his name in the papers. The news media get on the bandwagon by using the term "tortured" thus giving a false impression. The Liberals and NDP should shelve having another expensive enquiry as this will not endear them to the Canadian public nor get them up in the polls or more votes. We are tired of paying for this type of politics. If you need clarification, read Gen. Hillier's latest book - it sets out the prisioner situation at that time. Congratulations to Peter MacKay for having the backbone to respond.


Sober, Newmarket
said
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Just another futile effort by the lefties to get some attention, but this will not put them in government.Our Canadian soldiers did not do anything wrong. We know about a lot of wrong in the world, yet it does not make us responsible for it. What about the atrocities in Zimbabwe - we all know about it - does it make us responsible for it? Sudan? South Africa? Burma? China?Lefties always look for a reason to feel guilty about. Self-mutilation has never been a solution to anything. Fact is: we live in a broken world where things go wrong all the time.


Gerry from parliament hill
said
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The Conservative government has been lying to Canadians from day one. They will continue. The real issue is who is going to stand up to this bully government. Who will say, and Colvin has stood up, I will speak the truth. There is no reason for Colvin to jeapardize himself. Now the Conservatives will try to destroy him and they will continue to run a party of intimidation. This is dangerous politics. We've seen the results of around the world when governments refuse to honour the law, refuse to engage in conversation, etc. This is absolutely unacceptable.


Wade Ens
said
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Colvin is looking 4 a book deal on his phoney story.


Readthedetails
said
0 0

Lets be clear about something. It wasn't our soldiers acused of torturing the prisoners. Look at the headlines (that sell papers) and you'd think the media is suggesting that Canadians are the ones torturing prisoners.It's not our place to tell the Afgan prison guards how to or how not to treat Afgan prisoners in an Afgan prison. Afgans don't tell us how to run our prisons, and we wouldn't listen to them if they did.How long are we supposed to babysit and protect Afgan prisoners to be held by Afgans in an Afgan prison in Afganistan?


melissa
said
0 0

We deserve better. We deserve a nation that we are proud of. Canada went from being an intelligent, generous and strong financially capable, peace supporting and green envisioning nation to dumb bullying and dictatorial-like behaviour. Wow. Shame on MacKay. Shame on Harper.Colvin has courage. He will need the people's support.


charlie
said
0 0

Reading many posts from contributors who are decrying the use of "torture" - which is an undefined term and can cover almost anything that the user of the word defines as torture - I wonder how many would decry the use of torture to obtain information if their interests were at state? If their relatives, husbands, wives, sons, daughters were in harm's way and the captive could be co-erced into revealing information, would that be permissable or would they sacrifice their lives to support the principle? If the issue were, say nuclear or biological attack which could cause thousands of lives - would they still stand on their principles? When is the survival of one preferable to the survival of many? Would it have been permissable to torture Nazi agents to secure information about the German atom bomb project? Isn't it the same in "principle"? Standing on principles is easier if you have nothing but the theoretical principle at stake. Unfortunately, the real world does not work that way.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said
0 0

@ CON-artists: Contrary to your misinformed assertion, the Speaker has NOT rebuked the Conservatives over the alleged "issue" of (supposedly) labeling the Liberals anti-Semitic. The Liberals have simply filed a complaint. Try to have the facts straight before you set off on a silly partisan rant. Thanks.


Rick in NB, Ste Marie
said
0 0

Oh, you new reformed conservatives have gone and done it now. Gary, you look like an 11 year old dening that he stold his brothers chocolate shake, all the while wearing a brown mushach on his upper lip. If there is no truth to this, why worry about ab inquiry?


Richard in Ontario
said
0 0

This matter was addressed in 2007 when it was first dicussed. Rules were laid out and supposedly followed. For the Liberals and NDP to want to re visit this situation is just a waste of time and money. It would be better if the opposition parties would support our troops instead of always looking for ways to try to garner votes by slagging them. Also lets keep in mind that Harper and company were only in office six months or less when this whole thing came to light. Sorry, Liberals supporters, Martin et al sent our troops to Afghanistan and this torture thing was also under their watch. "If you don't want to stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them"


rubies_Canada
said
0 0

When the torture was finally acknowledged did it stop or not? Were detainees still turned over and tortured? I think dragging up the past in this instance does no good. No one will be able to say what the truth is actually. Yet conscience works wonders on people and I hope if anyone did know about what was going on their conscience will be bothering them for a long time. I do not believe that torture is right but as many others have said, the Afghan Army can promise what we want to hear but wont necessarily carry it out. It's their country, why do we or any other country think we can impress our ideals on them?


GP
said
0 0

thugs...duh


CMQ in NB
said
0 0

Ron In NS: I agree with the written part but why hasn't he come out and said he also told people directly? I completely understand having a "paper trail," but he has never mentioned having spoken to anyone. My position is not to support the government or the news or take sides, my position still holds to, Why hasn't he shared that he spoke to people directly? That is what seems odd about this whole thing. Most people talk face to face about important issues. I know if I had important issues to be addressed by upper levels of management I not only sent an email or wrote a letter, I spoke about it directly to them in their offices and in public meetings. That is all that seems off about this.


Doubting Thomasina
said
0 0

Is Mr. Colvin repeating what he heard from people who say they're former Afghan prisoners? Possibly.Were those "prisoners" telling the truth? Who knows?Were they Taliban plants out to discredit Canada and sway public opinion because they knew this guy was a bleeding heart and easily duped. Very Possibly!Does Colvin have pictures of their scars? Medical evidence of beatings etc.? Uhhh...NO! Colvin says he interviewed former prisoners. Why? Why would a diplomat seek out and interview prisoners? And if the prisoners wanted to complain, how would they know who to complain to?Was he out for dirt to discredit the Conservatives and make himself look like a hero? Too many unanswered questions right now, but I see there is NO evidence here, only hearsay and suggestions. What does Colvin stand to gain? Let's wait until his book comes out.


Who polices the police in Canada?
said
0 0

@Colin,"The only credible witness's are the members of our armed forces and the rcmp."Haven't been watching the news in the last 1-5 years, eh? Do the names "Dziekanski" or "Zacardelli" or how about "Ian Bush" - do yourself a favour and actually check the facts before blindly believing/following the cult of Harper.


Vince
said
0 0

I have a simple question why did the govt pull the National security card when the story first broke?I am sure the Red Cross have more to say about this.The PMO's has tto come clean on this issue.If Mr Covis is a liar then fire him don't promote him.


gerald bryant
said
0 0

What were the Canadian soldiers to do with the Afghan prisoners other than to turn them over to police or Afghan authorities, who it is alleged tortured these prisoners. Whether or not our Federal government knew about the torture is not the point. Brutalizing captives has been part of Afghan history, and this type of thing happens in uncivilized countries. Look what went on with American soldiers captured by the North Vietnamese, observe what is happening in parts of Africa and other places in the world. Torture of human beings is a terrible thing, but the Geneva Convention and the world community have not been able to stop it. Condemn those who torture, not the Canadian Government, and don't fault our troops for releasing the prisoners to civil authority. Want to pick on someone, try Karzie, his government and Afganistan.


D Griffith
said
0 0

Rod:L Libs paying you by the post?


Paul
said
0 0

This has been going on during everyone's watch - and for anyone to suddenly act shocked and appalled at this so-called news is declaring themselves as complete hypocrites ! Happened under the Libs, happens and will continue to happen under the Conservatives. Really? Abuse, possible torture? In a place that uses soccer stadiums to carry out public death sentences for kite flying and reading books? Shocking! What's the next headline going to be?......"This just in......oceans contain fish !....film at eleven."


edd-medhat
said
0 0

What the Conservatives are doing is defending themselves against Colvins lack of evidence. When you make statements like he did, you need to at least have something resembling evidence, otherwise it's grandstanding. Of course the media, instead of doing investigative journalism, just jump on the grandstanding bandwagon and let this run. After all, it sells news. It doesn't matter if it is verified.


Myles NWO
said
0 0

Albertaboy just lettin you know that one our enemy is not a military its a group of terrorists against NATO forces therefore the geneva convention doesnt apply in that sense, and do the taliban follow the rules of the geneva convention? no they dont, they would do far worse to us and were are letting the afgahns handle their own prisoners and torture may be ok in afgahnistan but its not in canada so would you rather us annex afghanistan just so we can protect terrorists?


Richard D in Kitchener
said
0 0

All right, everybody needs to take a step back and look at this rationally. This especially applies to the media (seriously, Tom Clark. Asking McKay "Like what?" when he said he wants evidence to corroborate the allegations? What kind of a question is that?)First off, to the Liberal and NDP supporters, you have to admit that there are some questions to ask about these allegations. You can't just say "he's believable because he's a diplomat who has no reason to lie." You don't know that. There are many reasons to lie, not including personal gain from an outside source, revenge against a government he doesn't like, or even good old fashioned blackmail. There are legitimate reasons to question the veracity of Colvin and his sources. If what he says is true, then you have to ask how it's possible that all senior diplomats, government officials, government bureaucrats, military commanders, and individual soldiers were able to keep this quiet until Colvin decided to blow the whistle.To the Conservative supporters, stop equating people who want answers to Taliban supporters. No one is perfect, and people make mistakes or deliberately break the rules. These allegations are serious, and they need to be answered, one way or the other.The Conservative government and the Liberal government before them during the Adscam have (and had) the proper attitude, ironically. These are allegations only, and proof is needed before they can be believed. There is only one way to get this proof, and that is through an inquiry. Form one now, and get to the bottom of this.


Frank - Toronto
said
0 0

At the risk of being labled a "Con" hack, this diplomat's testimony disturbs me for a number of reasons.1) Why did he feel comfortable testifying before a house committee, offering nothing but "hear-say"/"third hand" claims? If he had solid proof, (ie: witnessing torture, or surveilance evidence, etc), why didn't he bring this up with people who could do something about it?2) If, as he claims, he had such grave concerns about the possible turture of Afghan prisoners, why did he not raise those concerns directly with officials and ministers who could have investigated them properly. Instead, he shows up at a commons committee with nothing but claims buried in e-mails as evidence of same.3), I'd like to know when this man was appointed to his position in Afghanistan, and by whom? I'd like to think he didn't turn up at a commons committee as a political plant... but.......?Haven't we investigated tese types of claims in the past, only to find out there's no evidence to support the claim? It just seems like we're back at square one, thanks to this man's testimony.


Alex (Toronto)
said
0 0

When you don't like the truth, shoot the messenger!Harper could just say that he's reviewing communications procedures in his office. But instead he has ministers denying what everyone in Kabul and Kandahar already know. The cover-up is going to entertain pundits and politicos for days.Parliamentary privilege protects members from being sued for defamation for what they say in Parliament. In other words, Mr. Colvin under oath is currently more credible than anything said on camera by the Tory front bench. Let a minister step outside the House and claim that Mr. Colvin lied under oath, and then we'll see the writs fly.I'm pleased to see that our civil service is interested in protecting our country's reputation on human rights. If only we had a government willing to stand up for our principles.


Fred
said
0 0

This issue is being politicized and really it shouldn't. The Liberals and NDP are showing their selfish personal intentions trying to harm the government when they are all personally responsible in a sense for what went on in Afghanistan on a Parliament approved mission. This is not about name calling and blame or power seeking. We tell the Afghans to be less corrupt, and we turn this issue into a bun fight for power. Who would listen to us?The grown up thing to do is to investigate this issue by an impartial authority because we should lead by example!


Cara
said
0 0

I find it interesting that the torture only started on January 23 2006 when the Conservatives were elected and up until that time, 2001 to 2006, there was no torture going on. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of those e-mail Mr. Colvin is referring to were dated 2005 and he just forgot.


John- from B.C.
said
0 0

Mr. Colvert report does not only bring allegation to the present government, but the previous as well. Under both we have and are in Afghanistan. And both should have been aware if there was un acceptable torture Qustion more important what is done about it. If Mr. Colvin felt compelled to forward this so it draws international attention as well. Don,t we deserve at least more substantial proof .This is a allegation to us all, it is against our country. Our man and woman in uniform the sacrifices of them and their famalies. I for one need more prove then from the hear say Mr Colvin has produced so far. And for that matter so should the oposition. instead of being all over the government We own it to our country regardless who is in government.


Spenc
said
0 0

For anyone standing by Iggy and the Libs on this issue, YOU also support torture. You have no moral high ground here.


Linda in Vancouver
said
0 0

If,as Bob Rae suggests,it is represenbile for the government to "smear" the diplomat over his allegations,would it not be as equally reprehensible for Bob Rae to semear both the government,and our military over allegations tha are not proven? Once again I see the left wing spin machime playing politics with an issue to serious to use for partisan purposes. SO far,the dipomat has admitted his charges are based on things he heard,either second or third hand,from "reliable sources". Really?? I know I would never pass judgment without a lot more evidence.Adn I certainly would be very skeptical of information floating around in a war zone like Afghanistan. I'm not even suggesting anyone is lying.It's quite possible that everyone sincerely believes what they are saying.It's quite possible that someone has been deliberately mis-led by someone in Afghanistan. Whil;e serving jury duty years ago,a judge in Supreme Court advised the jury not to become entrenced in an opinion until all the evidence has been presented.He told us,human nature being what it is,very few people can retreat from a hasty position,EVEN WHEN IT IS PROVEN THAT POSITION WAS WRONG.I found that advice served me well over a very long period of time. I am no Conservatve,and I certainly don't agree with Harper on a whole lot of issues.But if I had to make a choice,given the current information available,I would surely take the word of the government,and Gen.Hillier over the word of this diplomat and the left wing smear experts.


Jack, Toronto
said
0 0

When the Taliban and/or Al-Qaeda stop trying to infiltrate Canada thru mass immigraion so they can spread their terror here and make us live under Shariah law, I'll worry about this. Until then, too bad.


raj
said
0 0

Colin had many chances to go up to Hillier, but he didn tlike him?? .so he would not approach him or anyone then, but years later he does.I smell Donolo at work.Sorry but I do..


bruce in london
said
0 0

Supporters of Mr.Colvin would seek to have Canadians tried for war crimes while the Afgans who purportedly carried out the torture would go free.Those supporting the call for an inquiry,based on flimsy second hand gossip would also probably support having enemy combatants come over to testify against Canadians.Once again the Liberals and thier Socialist friends have gone completely over the top on this.I wish they would show as much concern for our troops and our economy as they do to these alleged victims.Get a grip for Gods sake!


John from Saskatoon
said
0 0

Apparently Saint Colvin's report and the credibility of his sources are beyond reproach. How dare anyone question the validity of this document. Devils. Devils. Every single person he talked to in DND, Foriegn Affairs or apparently many other people have all got together to cover this up. So many people without a soul out to get this poor man. Please don't question him anymore. He may get hurt feelings. After all he knows without a doubt withmuch first hand rock solid evidence that he could not possibly be wrong about anything. If only Iggy was PM. Things would be so different. I hope my sarcasm is evident.


MARG MM
said
0 0

Richard in Ontario has it right.This first started happening under a Liberal Government. Did they know at the time what was happening? If so they could have corrected it then. When the Conservatives came into power they did in fact change the Liberal rules and since that time the captured terrorists have apparently been treated fairly.For the Liberals to make a huge deal about this now is just more of the same grandstanding in order to gain back some of their popularity. If this is not so, then they must share the blame for whatever happened in Afghan prisons, before the Conservatives made the changes. A public enquiry now, after the fact will not only cost millions, but will show that the Liberals are also responsible. Do they really want that???


The Other Lowell in BC
said
0 0

For the folks who don't believe what Colvin had to say, much of the information has already been corroborated by journalists working in Afghanistan. This guy is a star witness. He has an impeccable professional background and was trusted to work in a very sensitive post in the white house. what more can you say. The only liar here is Peter McKay. No one is saying that canadian troops committed torture however there must have been some knowledge of how the Afghan police were treating prisoners. Plain and simple canadians don't condone torture and even if we are talking about the taliban regime who are better known for their brutality, an eye for an eye doesn't apply. Torture isn't acceptable. Harper will have a bit of explaining to do when he visits China. Harper has criticized the chinese for their human rights violations. I think the whole incident tarnishes Canada's reputation in the world.


West of The Rockies
said
0 0

I cannot believe the absolute stupidity in some of these comments. Asking the Red Cross to accompany prisoners like the Dutch did? What?! Is the Red Cross even there or has the Taliban terrorized them into leaving also, like so many other aid agencies? Why didn’t the Red Cross check up on them after their imprisonment? That’s what they’re supposed to do. Then another comment equating the actions of our forces to the likes of Hitler. Unbelievable! Disgusting actually. Canadians didn't torture anyone. This is all based on 3rd or 4th hand stories. Canadian forces handed these people over to a legally operating entity of the Afghan government. Show us one prisoner even in Canada where they live better than half the working population, who will not claim some form of mistreatment or even torture while they were imprisoned. Consider the source, the accusers are the enemy.Get real people - this is war! .


John from Saskatoon
said
0 0

Albertaboy, do you actually have a clue about the Geneva Convention and how it's applied? It's quite obvious that you don't or you would know that it applies to prisoners of war. Not criminals who have been arrested. These people are not soldiers. Any wrong doing by the Afghan authorities would fall under local laws. So before you make yourself look anymore uneducated please take the time to read the document and absorb it.


Paul
said
0 0

I would like a public inquiry to address the following problems?Why the libs and ndp don't believe in democracy?Why doe the libs and ndp have problems with girls going to school without getting acid thrown in their face?Why does the libs and ndp ask for an inquiry why they think its ok for the cowards to use bombs and suicide bombers against the troops and innocent civilians?Why the libs and ndp like wasting money?In short, there's absolutely no need for an inquiry.


CON-artists
said
0 0

@ Prof. Pye Chart,Oops - you're right, that official rebuke will be coming in the next while, now that the complaint has been lodged. I guess like your defence of Mackay and Harper, until the inquiry gets things in writing for you, denials and lies by cabinet ministers are all you need to pretend nothing wrong happened.The previous rebuke against the Con-artists was for this:At issue Thursday was a flyer sent last month by Saskatoon Tory MP Maurice Vellacott to constituents in New Democrat MP Peter Stoffer's Nova Scotia riding. It stated that Stoffer had "worked to support the (long gun) registry" when, in fact, he has been opposed to the registry since its inception 12 years ago.Milliken ruled that, at first blush, Stoffer is correct that the leaflet constitutes a breach of his privileges as an MP and could potentially damage his reputation.


raj
said
0 0

Hillier doesnt know a thing about this.It is funny that yesterday the question was posed as to why would Colvin lie? What did he have to gain?Today the question can be put to Hillier. What does he have to gain? He's retired, not in the services, and he has been publicly on the out with Harper and the Conservatives since day 1. There's no love between Harper and Hillier and everyone knows that. Colvin was a relative unknown till 2 days ago.I smell a rat


Harry
said
0 0

Who said: "the first casualty of war is truth?"


Dr. M
said
0 0

@CharleCharlie, you make the typical conservative (small "c" intentional) argument that if the stakes were high enough, we ought to resort to torture to protect the lives of innocent people. This is a slippery slope argument, however, and works as well the other way. What aren't you willing to do? You cite the Nazis- sure, it's easy to accept torturing scumbags. But how about kids? For all of you willng to torture peope who are accused (not convicted, mind you) but accused of having information, would you be willing to torture little children if you thought they had the same information? Suppose it were a 5 year old that may have seen where her terrorist (maybe) father hid a bomb (maybe). Willing to burn her eyes out with hot pokers just to be sure? Willing to pour acid on her? If so, then how are you morally superior to the Taliban? If not, then where do you draw the line? Because you can't just cite the extreme case on the side of torture, the case of the known terrorist, without dealing with the other extreme, the innocent. If your argument for torture works, it works here too. If you want to draw a line, then tell us where, and why there. People used to understand that the ends don't justify the means, that immoral acts were immoral no matter how you try to rationalize them. They used to be called conservatives. Now welcome to Canada circa 2009, when conservatives have become moral relativists. All in the defene of "democracy" and "jutice", of course. And this is where the slippery slope gets you folks- you become as bad as the people you are fighting against. And then you've lost the moral high ground, and the Taliban have truly won.


Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said
0 0

This so-called "cover-up"is just another political ploy by the liberal party to discredit the government.The old Chretien guard are spoiling for an election and my guess is that this Colvin guy has been promised a plum post should the liberal's get elected.The issue's he bring's up have either been corrected or no longer exist.So why bring these unfounded accusation's up in the first place if not for some sort of personal gain.These witch hunt's only serve to undermine our effort's in Afghanistan and erode the morale of our troop's.Protocol has been reviewed and revised regarding the tranfer of detainee's as well Canada built the Afghan's a new jail to house these prisoner's after the Taliban destroyed the old jail in a daring escape.We are fighting in the toughest arena in the country and we are going to have problem's and I think we have done pretty well so far in overcoming these concern's.Let's not get caught up in the political B.S. and see this show for what it truly is.


Charlie in NS
said
0 0

When the Taliban stop seperating people's heads from their bodies, I'll get concerned about what their countrymen do with them.


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