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U.S. lawmakers take more shots at Canadian healthcare

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I'm sure all Americans would be more than happy to receive all the medical care they need without having to pay thousands of dollars afterwards or eventually lose their home because they can't pay the bill. Not having to face such fears is just one of the many blessing we have as Canadians.

G. Gravelle

U.S. lawmakers take more shots at Canadian healthcare

talking about
U.S. lawmakers take more shots at Canadian healthcare

The Canadian Press

Date: Friday Nov. 6, 2009 7:45 AM ET

WASHINGTON — Throughout the long and divisive debate about health-care reform in the United States, Canada's health-care system has often served as a popular punching bag for both Republicans openly swinging at it and Democrats ducking from any suggestion that Canadian-style reform is in the cards.

It came in for another drubbing this week, just days before a likely vote on a sweeping reform bill this weekend in the U.S. House of Representatives.

This time the attack came from Dick Morris, a renowned political strategist who was once one of Bill Clinton's closest advisers, in an opinion piece entitled "Canada's Healthcare Disaster." The column was published earlier this week in The Hill, a widely read congressional newspaper in Washington, and has since shown up on various political blogs and websites.

In the piece, Morris makes unsubstantiated claims that Canadian doctors are deserting the profession after "more than a decade of public health care with mandatory coverage."

Unions "control the entire health-care process" in Canada, he added. In Manitoba, he wrote, they're to blame for long wait lists since they refuse to allow procedures to be scheduled on nights or weekends.

"The unions are doing to health care in Canada what they have done to education in America - stifling creativity, reinforcing bureaucracy and extending waiting times."

Morris did not respond to requests for an interview on Thursday, but his piece is nothing new in the United States in recent months. It echoes attacks on Canada's health-care system that have come from all quarters: politicians, conservative pundits and even the CEO of Whole Foods, who wrote in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece that 830,000 Canadians are waiting to be admitted to hospital or to get treatment.

"I know enough about Canadian care, and I know this bureaucratic, socialized piece of crap they have up there," Louie Gohmert, a Republican congressman from Texas, told Congress over the summer.

"One in five have to die because they went to socialized medicine."

Another Republican congressman suggested Canada doesn't care about old people.

"Life is precious," Georgia's Paul Broun said. "Some would say: 'Well, she's 85 years of age; we should just let her die.' And that's exactly what's going on in Canada and Great Britain today. They don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently."

Chris Sands, a Canada-U.S. relations expert at the Hudson Institute in Washington, said Americans are in a period of great uncertainty about health-care reform, so it's not surprising some are looking north to either understand public health care or to demonize it.

"We're in a time when everyone is throwing out theoretical ideas based on what they think they know, and Canada is the great social experiment, it's a laboratory for reform," he said Thursday.

"The problem is we, as Americans, don't know an awful lot about Canada and so we're vulnerable to the demagoguery. Some of us know Canadians and say: 'Hey, Canadians have done this, and they seem healthy, and so it must work.' But others don't. The important thing is to make sure we're having an accurate and intelligent debate, and sometimes that hasn't been happening."

Morris is a political consultant and Fox News commentator who worked mostly with Republicans before becoming one of Clinton's most trusted advisers.

He was Clinton's campaign manager during the former president's successful bid for re-election in 1996, but Morris's tenure was cut short two months before the vote when it was revealed he'd allowed a prostitute to listen in on conversations he was having with the commander-in-chief.

He's since become a harsh foe of both Bill and Hillary Clinton, writing books critical of them.

Now he's a strategist for the League of American Voters, which is running ads opposing health-care reform. Not surprisingly, his condemnation of the Canadian system was not the first time he'd railed against Obama's health-care reform plans.

"The prudent thing to do is postpone health-care changes until the economy generates some revenues and trims the deficit," Morris wrote in June. "But the socialist in the White House can't do that. He's got to strike while his congressional majority is hot."

In his piece in The Hill this week, Morris wrote that there's a 25 per cent higher incidence of colon cancer in Canada than in the United States. Other estimates have put the difference at closer to 10 per cent.

"And because the leading drugs that we routinely use to treat the malady in the U.S. are banned in Canada because of their high cost, 41 per cent of Canadians who get the cancer die of it, compared with only 32 per cent in the United States," Morris wrote.

He was apparently referring to Erbitux, a colon cancer medication that Bristol-Myers Squibbs refused to sell in Canada because the government board that regulates the cost of patented medicines ruled the price was too high.

In September, the drug company relented and agreed to sell it in Canada at a price lower than it sells in the U.S., where a month of the drug can set a patient back US$10,000.

The United States is the only country in the developed world that lets pharmaceutical countries charge what they want for drugs. Other countries, including Canada, either limit drug prices or the industry's profits.

Morris also wrote that the cancer death rate in Canada is 16 per cent higher than in the United States, blaming it on waiting lists.

"Cancer does not wait for waiting lists to clear," he wrote.

Not surprisingly, Canadian readers commenting on The Hill's website were less than impressed.

"This article is a typical example of ideologically motivated trash coming from the U.S. that leaves most Canadians completely cold," wrote a commenter under the name Chris Malone.

"We are proud of our system and the last thing a very big majority of Canadians (as all polls show) want is a U.S.-style health system. Mr. Morris, why talk incorrectly about other countries when there is plenty to discuss in the U.S.?"

Comments are now closed for this story

Beth in Ottawa
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What a crock! I especially like the comment: "Life is precious," Georgia's Paul Broun said. "Some would say: 'Well, she's 85 years of age; we should just let her die.' And that's exactly what's going on in Canada and Great Britain today. They don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently."Apparently their appreciation doesn't extend to those too poor to pay for the huge medical bills that come with going to the doctor. While wait times and the ongoing doctor shortage are definitely cause for concern, I think that this is simply another case of the Americans feeling that they are 'better' than us.


Dave
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When you give something away for nothing, there will be abuses, our Medicare is no different. It is getting abused by politicians, medical personnel and the patients. Just like the vaccinations for H1N1, people jumped in ahead of persons needing the shot first, only thinking of themselves, Calgary Flames for example. Then we go and blame someone else for not having enough or the expense of the procedure. Our Medicare system would work if only everyone would not take advantage of it. So quit bitching when you cannot get a bed, because you have a sliver in your finger, quit throwing money at the system to make it work and stop thinking of your paychecks and asking for ridiculous wage increases.


Paul in SJ
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I have to say that the US fear-mongering around healthcare reform would be almost hilarious, if it wasn't for the fact that peoples lives are at stake.I find it hard to beleive, and yet some how very beleivable, that the republicans are busy poking holes in the proposed reforms, but are all to willing to allow MILLIONS of Americans to die as a result of little to no coverage.As for the continuous attacks on our system by the republicans and their supporters, I am reminded of the old saying about throwing rocks while living in glass houses....


Barry
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The only reason our Docs are leaving is because the US has a shortage of doctors and they come to Canada ro recruit them a unreasonable wages


Patricia
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I am continuously amazed (and angered) at how little (supposedly) educated Americans know about Canada. To have these blatant lies told, retold and published in respected journals and publications is actually frightening. That Canadians aren't rising up in anger and refuting these lies is very upsetting. Yes, I will agree our system is not perfect, but I would not trade our system for the American version EVER!


G. Gravelle
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I'm sure all Americans would be more than happy to receive all the medical care they need without having to pay thousands of dollars afterwards or eventually lose their home because they can't pay the bill. Not having to face such fears is just one of the many blessing we have as Canadians.


Stevie
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Simply gibberish from another typical naive politician from the U.S.


Pam
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I had to wait for a couple of months for surgery. The problem, not entirely the fault of too many people requiring replacement parts -knees, hips, etc, but the supply of those parts. It doesn't matter if one has medical coverage for living replacement parts as one has no choice but to wait for another person to die to provide those parts. BUT, in the U.S. only the monied can BUY those parts on the black market. Even here in Canada people with money do go overseas for surgery - India, Europe, etc. The same happens in the U.K. The monied and health care programme recipients in the U.S. are afraid that, if and when, they get a national programme then they too will have to wait long times, IF they can then find a doctor, as their doctor shortage will be huge and the non-registered "doctors" will flourish, as they need a national registration of legal doctors and not individual states to weed those people out. Greed and selfishness has always been first on their agenda. Self first, self last and anything left, self again.


Max
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Only in AmericaIf you are wealthy or have company health care, life is great.The USA, one of the richest countries in the world - if you can not afford health care, well too bad.Fear is being created by the wealthy HMO.s who dictate who lives and who dies.


alan
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I think all Canadians agree that our system could make some changes but at the end of the day we'll take it in a heartbeat compared to the US approach. I embrace it and don't for a minute feel I have to defend it to any Americans and at the same time recognizing their politics and situation, ours is not a solution for them.Of course all the commentary in the US comes from people of means who naturally support the status quo.


JR Expat
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I have to agree with alot that is said here. Canadians believe they have the best system, but I agree Unions control alot, the waiting times are outrageous. My daughter waited over 9 hours in intense pain at emergency(with only 3 people in waiting room) only to ge told it would be another 8 hours before a doctor could see her. It is very hard for most Canadians to admit our public system has failed. Money just gets tossed at this. Unions should not be permitted in any essential service such as health period. I have travelled extensivley and Canada is where you have to wait the longest for any sort of care, this defeats the purpose of health care. I can buy a vacation home, a Hummer, go on expensive vacations, but god forbid if I spend any money on private health care, Canadians need to wake up to the reality of our situation, we need a mix of both.


kenny g
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with the american complaining about our healthcare, they should remember our heathcare system helps anyone that is sick, in the states, if u don't have money to pay for it, ur pretty much screwed. so any american that does not like our healthcare system can kiss my canadian a**.


Howard
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No one should be surprised with the attacks on our health care system from those in the US with either a financial or political interest in their status quo. What Americans are not hearing, is the truth about universal health care anywhere on this planet. Like it or not, theirs is a system controlled by a financial/business bureaucracy, and a public system like ours, is controlled by a Government bureaucracy . I think that government bureaucrats are accountable to the electorate during an election, and changes can be made, but there is no accountability by those Americans who's business is health care, other than to investors and shareholders who continuously scream for more profits.I much prefer our reasoned, intelligent, well thought out system than an American system driven by a jingoist political ideology and moneyed interests.


Janet from Ontario
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When you don't have a valid arguement, you look around to find something or someone to blame and deflect people from the real issue. The American's that can afford health care get it. The one's who can't don't get it. There are poor Americans dying every day, because they can't afford insurance. And others who are so far in debt to hospitals and doctors that there is no end in sight for them. What the Republican from Texas should be doing is working to find a health care system that will benefit ALL Americans (not just the wealthy) and stop trying to deflect the argument north of the border. Is our system perfect? No... but we're working on it. And I've never heard of anyone being turned away from treatment in Canada. Can you say the same about the States?


Elmer Lee
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It is very apparent to me that the lawmakers in the USA know as much about our medical system as they know about our military history, which is basically zero. The majority of US citizens don't even know where Canada is let alone our policies, program's and way of life. This has been very evident in most of the verbal and written attacks made by citizens of all levels in the USA. Educate your selves before opening your mouth or putting pen to paper.


Jerry form Winnipeg
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Dick Morris and Paul Broun... How about getting up and coming to Canada to actually see how things are done here. Yes we have problems but as to the unions controlling health care, how about your HMO's and the GREAT (sarcasm intended) job they are doing?


Barbara1
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When I owned my own business, I employed a woman who had come to Canada with her husband to work. He had a terrible heart problem and had come to Canada (bought a small business) and took full advantage of this country's health care because, as American citizens, they had no health care insurance at that time and no assets they could sell to get the health care treatment he required.


alan
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To JR ExpatYour daugher waited 18 hours in the emergency for a doctor (with only 3 other people there). I do hope you did something about it. after the fact. Emergency rooms however work on a priority basis and it appears your daughter was not high on the list. You know this is the kind of story I hear from Americans when they talk about our system and I always have trouble believing it. While I am sympathetic to your union comments, I don't see the presence of the unions in the daily operation of the emergenciy rooms. They are professionals there.


MJ
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You are jealous of what you don't have and therefore knock the system. Therefore I take this with a grain of salt. If they don't want our type of Health care - create your own and leave ourse alone. It may not be perfect BUT we at least have the chance to go to a doctor, get a test, operation, mammagram etc without having to re-mortgage the house and our future. We should be grateful for what we have.


annie
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Health care in the U.S. is a political issue, not a health issue. Nothing more, nothing less.If it was a health issue, the government would just insure the uninsured for about 100 million a yrar, instead of the trillion it would take to reform it.It's a power grab, plain and simple. And let's not let Canada off the hook. Afew weeks ago peop-le were calling for others to pay their own costs if they used the system if they were deemed to abuse their bodies.I can see why the freedom loving Americans don't want to give it up. Canada is a great example of what is given up for public care.


CYL
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I wish the U.S.A would mind their own business and keep out of Canada's business. At least we don't have people dropping like flies because they don't have the money to be attended to.If you are not Canadian and live here, please do not comment.thank you


retdhairy
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Family in the States not coming home for Christmas because a medical procedure is required. They have insurance but still have to pay for a $4000.00 deductible. They are coming to realize how good we do have it in the "Great White North".


(Len) Leonard Moccio
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Another right wing Republican shouting out in favor of the drug and health care companies in the U.S. Our system is not perfect but we do not let the rich leach us of our well-being by denying coverage once we get ill so they can continue to soak the populace and make exhorbitant profits. Greed! Isn't that what got us all in the economic mess in the first place and now the health care industry wants to do the same in the U.S.


Bob AB
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Although I support universal health care our system is not perfect. I believe we should be listening to the critics of our system and where there is a valid point we should make corrections. The union issue of holding our system hostage is one of these points and needs be addressed.


Brian fr Langley BC
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To those of you mad at the U.S system ponder this one. I have an American friend (living in Canada) who had a Grandparent in both countries both very sick and elderly. As the American Grandfather had insurance the hospitals had a vested and significant financial interest to keep him alive and healthy for as long as possible. In Canada the feeling was the more health care the Canadian grandfather got the less some one more worthy (younger, healthier etc etc) would get. When he asked me which plan I would rather have for myself it is a no brainer. No wonder so many Americans are afraid of our health care system.


B. Kelley, Ontario Neverland
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My wife has been waiting for FOUR MONTHS JUST TO GET APPOINTMENTS set up with two specialists and for one diagnostic test to be conducted. Once she actually gets those appointments they will likely be several months away. It is obvious that she requires surgery and, according to our family doctor, she will be very lucky to see that happen within the next year. Her level of pain is increasing daily but that simply is not a consideration in a health care system that is so bloated with non-medical expenses driven by CUPE greed, bureaucratic red tape, policies dictated by accountants and procedures designed to remove the last vestiges of human compassion and dignity from the system. The term "Health Care" has become an oxymoron in Canada. What we have is socialized insurance that has become nothing more than an exercise in trying to squeeze an elephant through a keyhole. While all the various Neros who run the bureaucracy are fiddling, the entire system is failing and the uninformed citizens of the land are running around in total blindness trying to defend the undefendable. If we don't wake up soon we will literally see people dying in our streets because they have great insurance but no place to use it. The US critics are right to avoid the Canadian system like plague. Why follow us over the cliff into oblivion?


Jim-Surrey
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Hey U.S politicians you better get your own country in shape before pointing your finger at anyone else, because as you point one finger there are five pointing back at you!Your U.S. ego is the reason you people are in such a damn mess which leaves your new President one hell of a mess to clean up, if you let him!At least Canadians have medical coverage, more than you do for your citizens eh?


Dennis L. Krahn
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Good morning to all of you who are extolling the virtues of Canadian health care: have you ever stopped to calculate the cost, not just for you to have health but for all the free loaders that inevitabley show up in a system like ours? My wife and I have experienced the American system and it worked fine. health care is like retirement; if you don't plan for it you will be screwed; it is not the duty of hard working people to pay for air heads who can't manage their money. Free health care should only be available to those who through no fault of their own could not work to provide themselves with health care.


david sawkiw[sakatchewan farmer]
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@elmer lee:::: Give your head a shake!! Where do you get off on calling the Americans down?? I'm pretty sure many many Canadians remember one of our ELECTED people calling the President of the USA a moron!! How ignorrant is that?? How about rick mercer making fun of Americans?? Do you honestly think you could not do the same sort of thing to make Canadians look stupid??There are countless of other things ,, but it would be a waste of my time.Take your holier than thou attitude to some socialist place like Cuba or China,, they would really like you there.......


Adam in Thunder Bay
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I have been to Virginia and had my first taste of the American healthcare system. At the time I required that immediate payment for the medical tests this particular doctor was giving me were required or I should go back to Canada and get the money.. I am a 6'3" aboriginal and a nurse asked me if I was an Eskimo. I mentioned to another I was from Alberta, Canada and she asked me if that was near Quebec. I was naive at the time thinking that they understood the Workers Compensation Board of Alberta was reliable in paying medical bills for my work related injury, but they had no clue who the WCB of Alberta were.


Chat
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The people who are praising our system appear not to have faced the need for tests for unexplained symptoms. We have a real problem with waiting times for both seeing specialists as well as doing tests. Also, they prescribe the cheapest available test when far more reliable but more expensive tests are available. There is no doubt that our system puts a value on human life, which I think is uncivilized. Does this mean that the US system is better. Absolutely not - it is far more uncivilized when the richest country in the world cannot offer healthcare to large numbers of its peope. But for godsake, let us not downplay the problems we have got in our system just to bash somebody else, or because of our on insecurities/inferiorites.


Kenneth H Young CD
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"They don't have the appreciation of life as we do in our society, evidently." They have been in how many wars lately? How many people have they bombed? How many people have been refused treatment because they have no money? how many gang and street killings are there? How many people are still homeless after Katrina? And now their own Military Officers are wiping out their own troupes. Ya they appreciate life but a short one, unless you are rich enough.


Ross in OHIP covered Burlington
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Who cares what comments ignorant American politicians make about our healthcare. These statements are made by people who are against President Obama's plans to bring a healthcare plan to Americans. The term "The Ugly American" was madeup for good reason, they know nothing about their neighbours to the north of them or the rest of the world for that matter. They are rude,crude and think that they are the only country that counts. If they vote against a healthcare plan then that is their problem. Our healthcare plan may not be perfect and probably needs to be overhauled and fine tuned but at least we have one. Let us leave them to their own devices because as they keep telling us we a terrible system and they know best, because they are American.


R. Ron
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Wake up USA, educate your children, especially your politicians...Truth will set you free..


Kenneth H Young CD
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Brian fr Langley BC....When they (US Citizens)have a good health plan, it is only in the hospitals best interest to keep them alive but not well. If they are not sick and in the hospital they do not get any money, so the invested interest in the US is to keep them alive but not well enough to go home, the longer the stay the more money the hospital makes. It also tends to make doctors order tests which accomplish nothing. Where in Canada it is in the hospitals best interest to make them well and get them out the door.I would far rather have a doctor who will not make one cent more or one cent less for treating one person rather then an another regardless of age, sex, color or religion, then having my medical care tied to how much more or less that they can make if they treated a better insured person and God forbid someone without insurance.


Sharon
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I had the misfortune to fall ill in the U S while on a weekend trip. I did receive swift excellent care for heart symptons. The ambulance charge was $900.00 and that was just the beginning. For 36hrs in hospital and the procedures that were needed I received a bill of just under $30,000.00.I am extremely thankful for travel insurance. Our Canadian system is not perfect but we all receive care without having to fear cost. The lady in the room with me paid $800.00 a month out of her own pocket for insurance. The American system is a very good system for the rich but the poor are left very vulnerable.


Fred BC
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NO WAITING IN CANADA! Canadians checking into the Hospital get immediate care if needed.Helicopters will fly them to a vacant bed for care.Canadian Doctors and Nursing staff love their country and will not trade it for a few extra Dollars. The exception is not the rule! Our System of Democracy works! Best in a minority Government!


Chat
said
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david sawkiw[sakatchewan farmer] is worried that one of our leaders called the US president (Bush, I presume) a moron. It appears that David S thinks Bush is very smart! No wonder David S cannot even write proper English!!


Joshua
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Why isn't a Canadian relations person go speak to members of USA and fix these lies that are being spread. This stuff they are saying, bothers me as a Canadian and we shouldn't let USA push us around anymore!.


sam
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when i read crap like this it makes me sad, People in the states need and diserve healthcare that is accessable to everyone. Ya our system has flaws and could use some work BUT it still saves lives, lives that otherwise wouldnt even see the level of treatment they recive here because they couldnt afford the treatment if they were american. I brought my daughter into an emergancy room not that long ago, She was a week old and very sick. The doctors and nurses that work in a CANADIAN health care system saved her life. She recieved top ratied healthcare that i could never afford had i been american. If i had to pay for what was required my family would be homeless. Just to give birth to a baby in the states costs more then an average house payment so what happens to those poor babies who have to remain in hospital after birth and their families when the bills start to add up? Well i can tell any american who has the chance to read this that here, that baby stays in hospital, he/she recives the best healthcare money can buy at NO COST. Mom and Dad get to breath with relief that the baby can get better and they wont lose their home in the process. Canada has it's own specialized hospitals and teaching hospitals. Doctors come from around the world to teach and learn in them and its not paid for by the patients and families of scared or dying relitives. Yes there are waiting lines for some treatments and it doesnt bother me one bit if someone has to wait for an operating room because they want an elective surgery because their are more critical patiences first in line.


Leo Mississauga
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Life expectancy rankings:Canada #8U.S.A #50


Dailyn
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It doesn't matter how much the Americans criticize our health care to make themselves feel better, ours is still better. It's not perfect by any means, there is a lot of room for improvement but that will always be the case- nothing can ever work perfectly. I also don't care about ignorant republican's, random Texans, and bitter Clinton ex ass kissers'...well ignorance about Canada. :p That's like getting mad at a toddler for not getting science or philosophy or anything that involves understanding outside their shallow world.*shrug* Be proud of Canada as Canadians and screw what American's think because they don't care what we think about them and they're not fully informed. We're our own country, we have our own strengths and weaknesses and I'm happy to live here.


Genevieve from B.C.
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Well, lets see, I've had 3 children, 2 were premies, all covered, had emergency gall bladder surgery, covered, stitches to son's head THREE times (sigh) and one broken arm (what can I say he's a boy) - covered, husband had a heart attack and a stint put in the very next day to unblock a 99% blockage to a main artery, COVERED. Not to mention the numerous visits to docs for check ups and immunizations through out the years. We moved last year to SK from B.C. and one quick form for each of us and , Yup, you guessed it COVERED! I couldn't imagine how much $ and sanity would of been lost if we hadn't been living in this GREAT country of CANADA!


Ktbay
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Brian fr Langley BC...the issue is more for US citizens with no coverage (the majority). I think your story would read diferrent if the US grandparent did not have coverage through other means. I'm all for the Canadian system, I have experienced the USsystem.........wa$ not enjoyable.


Glass Houses
said
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Hey! If my empire was collapsing around my ears, because of corporate greed and military aggression, and the increasingly unemployed, homeless masses (armed to the teeth, I might ad) were seething about bank bailouts/bonuses and corrupt puppet politicians on both sides of the system, I wouldn't be above inventing nonsense about how crappy things are in countries either.It's to be expected. Misdirection is a hallmark of collapsing empires: 1776 - 2008 RIP USA.


Fred - Brandon MB
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The unfortunate legacy of the Bush Republicans is that lies have become truth in the USA. The completely baseless attacks on Canada's medical system are without any foundation in fact. The y deserve to keep the system they have.


Robert Brise
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Blatant Liars or Ignorant Bliss? The one thing that Canadians do know about the USA is that some of their prominent People are Loud mouth American Liars EH? Mr Morris!


Bruce P.
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Well that's American Capitalism and Ignorance for ya. Isn't the once mighty US of A the best at everything including leading the financial meltdown? I so envy them. The US is going the way of the old Soviet Union - bust. Pretty soon they'll be parking planes, tanks, and boats because they can't afford to fuel them. Mark my words it's coming.Back to Canadian health care. I had cancer 10 years ago. From the time it was discovered to the time I had it removed was 10 days. I saw a multitude of Dr. specialists and surgeons in that time and even had a CT scan. I didn't live in a big city. As matter of fact I lived in a small rural town. I'll take Canada's system over the American for profit one any day thank you very much.


Janne in US
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To Canada: Sorry. Most people don't agree with Mr. Morris and his ilk. In fact, most people are embarrassed that he still has a public forum. To Mr. Morris: Still lying, I see.


Duane Oshawa
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Its easy to say the grapes are sour, when you can't reach them!


B. Kelley, Ontario the Confused
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Man, we are a paranoid bunch in this country. A few American politicians criticize our health care system (with good reason) and we react like they just called our children ugly and stupid. When Canadians decide what we want to be when we finally grow up maybe then we'll stop being so thin-skinned and become more honest about who and what we are. To read most of the posts here its obvious that we currently define ourselves as "not American". Now that's a standard to live up to! If one of your friends asked you to describe yourself would you reply: "I'm not my brother"? Well, that's exactly what we do. Lets just admit that in our socialist mindset we put universality of health care as a top priority ahead of quality of health care and we are apparently willing to live with the price of doing that. At least we'd be honest for a change.


Fred
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What a farce, considering our life expectancy is higher and infant mortality rate lower than theirs.It's a shame, though, because their ill informed public will probably believe all that nonsense.


Albertaboy111
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""I know enough about Canadian care, and I know this bureaucratic, socialized piece of crap they have up there," Louie Gohmert, a Republican congressman from Texas, told Congress over the summer. "One in five have to die because they went to socialized medicine." "Lol where do they come up with that dribble. I hope someone exposes that lie to the American people. None of these people have ever experienced our health care system. Had they they would see how much superior it is to their American system. I just hope Harper never gets the privatization he wants of our system. Health care is a basic human right, not a priveledge to the highest bidder.


V.O.C.A.L.
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In Canada we have a two tier medical insurance system. One paid by taxpayers and they are covered under the Canada Healh Act. The other is employer funded and a group called "injured workers" is excluded from the Canada Health Act. Bcause this second group has to obey the wishes of the Workers Compensation Boards in Canada the injured worker is mistreated and suicides are common in this group. They commit suicide because they are not getting proper and timely medical care, are forced into poverty without the promised financial benefits, and are stressed because they have to fight to try and get better and back to work. Pain, poverty, and stress is killing these injured workers.


Rob in Ottawa
said
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Riddle me this all you rabid defenders of Canadian socialized medicine:1. Why do I have to wait 10 months to see a Urologist?2. Why did I have to wait 6 months to see a Dermatologist?3. Why are there more MRI machines in a tiny state like Maine, than in all of Canada?4. Why is there a severe shortage of ventillators?5. Why does the Ontario government have agreements with US hospitals to take patients?6. Why can't people find family doctors?You know why? Because government run health care is a failure.


AlbertaBoy111
said
0 0

Private Health Care and Private Prisons are both a bad idea. NO one seems to draw attention to the fact that these companies (who's primary goal in life and the reason for being is profit, and only profit) have it in their own best interests to keep us sick and keep us in prison. They make more money that way. When it comes to basic societal needs and responsibilities, profits should never enter the equation.


Paul Yewchuk
said
0 0

In Canada every citizen has health care, regardless of ability to pay.Yes there are long waiting lists for crucial investigations or for treatment .But eventually most get treated. Tragically, in some cases treament is too late to save "life or limb" because of the long wait lists.In the USA, about 30 million {roughly the equivalent of Canada's entire population} have no health care insurance at all because they can't pay the exhorbitant cost. There is no wait list for care for them, other than the wait list to die or get progressively sicker. So it is clear that neither system by itself is ideal. What would be ideal would be to combine the benifits of both systems so that everybody be covered. The two systems side by side would give people a choice and would include the concept of competion for greatest efficiency. Extremist rhetoric from either side is of no benifit! I am a family physician who spent decades on the front lines of health care in Canada.My advice is given with sincerity based on that frontline experience. I am retired, so I have had a lot of time to think about it.


B Fast
said
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Canadians recently selected Tommy Douglas the "greatest Canadian" solely because he gave us universal health care. Canadians in general must be reasonably satisfied with the program.All meaningful generalized stats such as life expectancy and live birth rate show that the Canadian system of healt care works better than the American AT ANY COST, dispite the average American paying about twice what Canadians pay for health care.If it is true that the American healthcare system (MediCare, a socialized system) values the end of life more than the Canadian system does, well the Canadian system certainly values the working poor MUCH more than the American system does.In light of these facts, Dick Morris doesn't have a logical leg to stand on. The Canadian system my not be perfect. It would please me if the Obama system proves better than the Canadian system, BUT THE CANADIAN SYSTEM IS A HECK OF A LOT BETTER THAN WHAT THE AMERICANS HAVE NOW!


TSC
said
0 0

If you cannot see that Canadian health care is abysmal, you are willfully blind. Our socialist system does not guarantee care, only a place in line. Just go to any ER in the country and wait 6hrs for treatment, or wait 9 months for an MRI.The most shameful part is that our two tier system allows privileged access to those who know a doctor to get them to the front of the line or to politicians who have privileged access.I should be able to buy my own health care if I want, buy treatment at a private clinic, or opt out of OHIP. The government restricts our care through rationing and waiting lists.


Ben from SHWA
said
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"I know enough about Canadian care, and I know this bureaucratic, socialized piece of crap they have up there," Louie Gohmert, a Republican congressman from Texas, told Congress over the summer. "One in five have to die because they went to socialized medicine." Wow Louie, pretty bold statement coming from a Texan, the state that routinely excecutes innocent people and has an extremly high murder rate for a place where every Yosemite Sam can carry guns.Just because ALL people are looked after by our health care system does not make it socialist. Capitalism isn't working for you very well is it, with record unemployment and the great recession. Calling it socialist makes you the arrogant American so many of you have become since your health care debate has taken a media spotlight. Keep your nose out of our health care system, because while it may not be perfect it is much better than what you have or will have. Idiot.


American in Canada
said
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My friend's wife died of cancer in the US because they could not afford the treatment. It seems much more cruel in my opinion to say, "Those of little means, let them die" than it is to say "We're so swamped trying to care for all our citizens that unfortunately, some may die waiting for care".


Healthy
said
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Watch the Movie "Sicko" by Michael Moore it gives you an idea of what kind of health care the US has....they have the nerve to talk about ours.


Maggie Smith
said
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Hey, JR ExPat - if you want to skip wait times in Canada, you too can pay for service. Just take a cheap flight down to the U.S. and pay for it there! Wealthy people in Canada who complain that they can't pay for jumping the queue here aren't imprisoned in the country. 90% of the population lives within 200 miles of the American border, so why don't you go ahead to the Mayo clinic and shell out thousands, if that's what you care to do.


Tweedinator
said
0 0

A couple of things.1) How many Americans die each year because their insurance company cancels their policy when they suffer a major illness?2) Our healthcare is "garbage" yet we have a longer life expectancy than the US. How can this be?Too bad the debate is really about profits and not about healthcare for all Americans as it should be.


LDL in ONT
said
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Hey USA......Whatever! You don't like our health care system, you don't like us. Fine. Carry on with your debate adnauseam. It's not our business and frankly, we don't give a rats buttocks.


BLA
said
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With all that is said, I just can't get past the fact that the US is still debating how they will take care of their people. It's 2009 people! I just can't imagen living in a country and paying taxes and still having to worry about what I would do if I got sick or hurt. If I were American I would walk around in a foam suit, just so I would lower the chances of broken bones. It's called insurance, and as Canadians its our right to have that coverage. I don't care how Americans handle it, whether they adopt our approach or not, but they have to do something. Americans should be outraged!


Art
said
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One in five die in Canada because of healthcare? American republicans show us again why most of the world consider Americans to be totally ignorant of anything outside their borders, actually within their borders as well in most cases.Fearmongers and just plain liars as the Bush era showed us.


Bongs
said
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This doesn't really come as a surprise. Many die heart neo-cons and lobby groups in the US will do whatever it takes to downgrade our health system.Dick Morris is an ally to both the anti-democrats movements (especially FOX) and the super lobbies. I suspect that is his way of paying back his rejection by the Clintons. His negative comments during the much heated Democratic primary campaign are quite emblematic of his perpetual bitter feelings towards the party. My message to Dick and his buddies is to please look at and accept the facts. The average mainstream US citizen is in dire need of an affordable health care system. Their medicare and medicaid are going downhill. Both are in financial dire straits plagued with incompetence, corruption and gross mismanagement. And if they believe our health system needs repairs, let them start with theirs.Finally, I urge these ideologues to accept reality. That is our 'delay' factor not withstanding, we still provide one of the BEST health system in the world. And many people will do anything to part our enviable health care system. Check the latest development index and see where Canada falls. Quite high I may add. And here I rest my case!


Jayme
said
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TSCIts all good to say you want the right to get out of ohip and pay for your own medical treatment.Just make sure you have a very good job because medical treatment does not come cheap.In the states for exzample medical treatment bankrupts alot of people when you have medical bills that in some cases from reports are $80 grand and up its very hard for alot of people to afford this.


Jim B.
said
0 0

If this man named Morris, had more than two active brain cells he'd be dangerous. What a lot of dribble he let out. Yes Canada's health care could be better, but it doesn't cut off whole sections of society from receiving care just because one person's health care is too expensive. Only for the wealthy? Not in Canada. We do think of our unfortunate neighbors.


OldTeddyBear
said
0 0

In the US they die out of fear of having to go to the hospital and financially ruining their families by doing it. Both of my brother-in-laws parents ended up dying that way, and my mother-in-law is almost destitute because she has cancer and was trying to fight it until she was leeched dry. If you do not have a good private health insurance and are rich, you are out of luck.


Cheryl in Coquitlam
said
0 0

I would gladly take our waitlists over a $75,000 bill for a broken arm anyday!


JTP
said
0 0

What interests me is that Canadians feel some motivation to defend our system. Let them say whatever they want. Their words will not change our system.However all the George Bush detractors/pro-Obama Canadians feel the need to argue with the Americans about what our system does. Who cares? Let they screw up their system even worse than it is now. I'm happy here. I'm not going there (without travel insurance). Case closed. Canada would be so much happier if we never got news (TV/radio/internet news) from the USA.


nosty
said
0 0

I am constantly amazed at this particular debate. As the system is right now, the American system is failing their population. Of course our doctors are going down to the USA, they are paid more. What would be interesting is to see how many of our doctors come back. Once they have paid their malpractice insurance I am sure that many of them decide to return.In late June 2009, I had developed gangrene in my left foot. I will be the first to admit, I am a diabetic who was not caring for myself and I was a heavy smoker. I went to the emergency room and within 10 minutes of speaking to me, I was whisked over to an area where I saw not only an emergency room doctor but several specialists. That night (well early the next morning), they had to amputate a part of my left foot. Unfortunately, at the time, I had not gone to get my health card but that was of no concern whatsoever to the care professionals! While in hospital, my health card had arrived but that was never even a concern for the healthcare professionals. The care I received was second to none! Furthermore, since my discharge, I have been receiving home care to help me over the hump and to address my other needs. If I had been in the USA, I would never have been seen without being able to prove that I could pay for every cent f the care I received. I know, I lived in the USA for almost 10 years and I saw a system where people made the decision to put food on the table. Our system works, not flawlessly, but it works!


CrackerJackLee
said
0 0

i was present once in emergency at kingston general hospital when an elderly couple next to me needed a doctor. his wife was in pain. i let them sit ahead of me as my kidney stone pain was intermittent and she was in real pain. the woman at the desk said only ambulance patients were to be admitted and to call their doctor. they could not reach their doctor. i watched them leave. if you have a doctor speaking for you, you're in. it was sad and made me aware that in life you are often alone. canadian health care is a great idea. the trouble is that there is queue jumping as one doctor trumps another or you have a secret handshake. at least if you have private insurance in the US, you're guaranteed the same treatment as anyone else. in canada, they won't even speak to you if you don't wink, smile and shake their hand in the "right" way. you have to be "good" in canada to receive the "good" treatment...


WESTERNER
said
0 0

To the States - you charge high rates for health care and ignore the bottom line who can't afford it! If Canada is so bad then how come people from other countries want to come here for medical coverage? Our Doctors head "state side" due to MORE MONEY being offered leaving us to search elsewhere for Doctors. I live in a Rural setting and it's effect is being see - as soon as the Contract is over - they move on to bigger and better - they are only Human like you and I and Money Calls!! OR we could be like another country overseas that covers "cradle to grave" and your taxed extremely high! If your drugs are cheep then why aren't you providing for all your citizens health concerns - why pick on Canada to keep up with the "Jones Family".Also, if the States wants to "mud sling" they should check their own backyard first!!!


Chuck, NB
said
0 0

All I know is, as long as I stay in Canada, I will be fine!


ARJAY
said
0 0

The primary duty of a nation is to provide security for its citizens. That's why we form nations in the first plcae. Police, fire departments and the military all perform that basic function. Medical care is no different. Every nation has a duty to its citizens to secure their rights, and the most primary one is the right to medical care. So if 46 million Americans are not getting health care, then America is not fulfilling its function as a nation. But rather than face this fact, Republican politicians (and some right-wing Canadians) would rather shout "socialism" as if this were somehow an argument rather than a cop-out.This is part of an ideological perspective that the private sector can always outcompete the public one- but the fact that 10/10 of the top health care systems in the world have "socialized" components proves that to be wrong. The French are first, and have both a public system and a private option. The Japanese are second, and have a public program funded by corporations. The Amerians are 37th, and have a purely private system. The real fear in the States is that if a public, "socialized" system is seen to be superior, then the private, capitalist ideology will be seen to be inferior- and that would undermine their entire belief system. It''s easier to attack the Canadian system than it is to admit that a socialized system works better. And notice that the Republican politicians (many of whom get money from large insurance corporations) don't even mention the Japanese or the French. And notice that our Canadian right-wing friends who are so deperate to defend the American system don't complain that our police and fire departments are also "socialism". That's because they just haven't thought this through, but are reacting purely on ideolgoical grounds.


slw860
said
0 0

As someone who grew up with Canadian healthcare that says that proper healthcare is a basic human right, it is abhorrent to me that people would ever think differently. In response to the idea that we "place no value on human life" and "let 85 year olds die because they are younger people waiting for their bed" well I am a critical care nurse and have seen COUNTLESS cases in which we do everything we possibly can to keep someone alive almost to the point where it is ridiculous. Including 90 year olds! Plus about the waiting times. Unfortunately yes there is a lineup. But if you have a heart attack and need an angio let me tell you, they will get you there asap! I have seen this with my own eyes. Yes we have to wait sometimes but trust me if someone is in front of you it is usually because they do need it more! Yes there are some flaws in our system, most of them to do with staffing shortages, but i am deeply proud of the system that i work in and i would not change it for anything. I could not bear having a patient that i could not help because their insurance didn't cover them! Ridiculous and Disgusting.


Cate in Ottawa
said
0 0

Well it's pretty clear to me that there are two or more very unhappy, scared and jaded politicians, who just need to vent. President Clinton cut Morris' tenure short and President Obama is getting closer to his mandate for health-care reform.Scared people are known for running off at the mouth and making up partial truths to appeal to any fool who will listen. It's a free world, speech and opinions here in North America, so it's hard to nail these clowns with defamation for their very misguided opinions.We in Canada know their are short-falls in our system, but hey at least we all get Health-care. All we seem to see right now are the faults in our system, but if we really take time to think clearly, we do have it better than the Americans. Frustration makes for slanted and emotional opinions-no one likes to wait in line-patience is very thin right now through fear.Some of the media know exactly how to feed this fear and continue with taking advantage of those who are most vulnerable.I don't make light of the tragedy of those who sucummed to this threat and we can finger point all we like. H1N1 is a menace for sure and our system is truly trying to help all Canadians, we need to be more patient(no pun intended).


saskatchewanbirthplaceofmedicare
said
0 0

I have to agree with B. Kelley,, It sure does seem odd that all these comments are so passionately defending our system as though it were in jeopardy simply because someone in a foreign country critizised it !!! Talk about being insecure,,, I wonder why??Someone else dug up tommy douglas ,, AGAIN,,, do some research, READ his thesis,, he wanted to sterilize all the sub-normals in the country,, against their will !!!! True socialism in action ! Lets not forget his daughter who always seems to make it back to Canada to defend medicare.Oh and do any of you remember the terrorist group called the black panthers??


Julian
said
0 0

"Riddle me this all you rabid defenders of Canadian socialized medicine:"1. Why do I have to wait 10 months to see a Urologist? Because rather than limiting that service to the lucky few who can afford it, Canada provides health care free to all who need it. Unfortunately that does lead to longer lines, but once you get to the front of them, you don't find yourself with a $10,000 bill.2. Why did I have to wait 6 months to see a Dermatologist?See previous answer.3. Why are there more MRI machines in a tiny state like Maine, than in all of Canada?Because rather than focusing on making money off of sick people, Canadian health care focuses on availability and equality. Less revenue means less money for big purchases like $3mil MRI machines.4. Why is there a severe shortage of ventillators?There isn't a shortage of ventilators.The government suggested that there may not be enough in the future if the hospitals are overwhelmed with people suffering from breathing problems related to the H1N1 virus.They have therefore started to purchase more as a precautionary measure.5. Why does the Ontario government have agreements with US hospitals to take patients?I'm unaware of these agreements so I won't comment, however the answer below might help you out.6. Why can't people find family doctors?Family doctors are in short supply because our professionals are being poached by US hospitals that have endless amounts of money (which they are making off the backs of sick people) with which to draw them down.A problem that would no longer exist if the US had a similar system to ours.No one here has said our system is perfect, but I'll take it over the US system anytime.If you don't like it feel free to move. Don't forget your wallet.


Kadjere
said
0 0

This doesn't really come as a surprise. Many die heart neo-cons and lobby groups in the US will do whatever it takes to downgrade our health care system.Dick Morris is an ally to both the anti-democrats movements (especially FOX) and the super lobbies. I suspect that is his way of paying back his rejection by the Clintons. His negative comments during the much heated Democratic primary campaign are quite emblematic of his perpetual bitter feelings towards the party. My message to Dick and his buddies is to please look at and accept the facts. The average mainstream US citizen is in dire need of an affordable health care system. Their medicare and medicaid are going downhill. Both are in financial dire straits plagued with incompetence, corruption and gross mismanagement. And if they believe our health care system needs repairs, let them start with theirs.Finally, I urge these ideologues to accept reality. That is our 'delay' factor not withstanding, we still provide one of the BEST health care system in the world. And many people will do anything to part our enviable health care system. Check the latest development index and see where Canada falls. Quite high I may add. And here I rest my case!


Larry in Wpg
said
0 0

If ignorance is bliss, this guy must be in heaven. "Life is precious" doesn't necessarily extend to the insurance companies in the US system who get to decide whether or not to fund medical treatment that is supposed to be insured. How many people die waiting for heart surgery or concer treatment because the insurance companies drag their feet waiting for them to die so they will not have to pay ? Even being insured is no guarantee you will get treatment. Unless of course you are wealthy or famous or a politician.


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