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Will the war in Afghanistan bring down NATO?

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NATO should simply be disbanded, especially given that co-operation between nations does not necessarily have to be institutionalized today and NATO practically lost its raison d'être since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. Not to mention, one cannot genuinely call the war in Afghanistan a NATO effort, given that the bulk of NATO's troops come from only three countries (USA, UK, and Canada) as mentioned in previous comments.

RZ

Will the war in Afghanistan bring down NATO?

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Will the war in Afghanistan bring down NATO?

Ian Munroe, CTV.ca News

Date: Sunday Nov. 1, 2009 9:46 PM ET

Next week in Washington, U.S. President Barack Obama will host a summit of European Union leaders to discuss a number of issues, including what to do next in Afghanistan.

Despite the presence of about 70,000 troops under NATO command, the central Asian country has become increasingly violent and unstable. NATO's International Security Assistance Force has been looking for more troops in order to reverse course.

But NATO nations have so far come up short  on offering troops, and now their alliance's reputation is on the line.

NATO defence ministers met in Bratisalva, Slovakia, last week to discuss the war. They endorsed a recent assessment by ISAF's commander, U.S. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, that tens of thousands of additional troops are needed or NATO will lose to the Taliban.

However, the gathering of defence ministers stopped short of committing more troops. NATO said that discussing "the resource implications" of endorsing McChrystal's assessment "will follow at a later stage."

Growing concerns

While NATO's 28 member countries grapple with how to improve their chances of beating the Taliban, the alliance is facing growing criticism over how the mission has been conducted and whether it can go on for much longer.

The autobiography of Rick Hillier, a retired Canadian general and former chief of defense staff in Ottawa, landed in book stores this week. In it, he provides a written attack on the alliance's performance in Afghanistan from his time as commander of ISAF.

The mission's leadership is "abysmal," he writes. Staff at NATO's headquarters in Kabul "had no strategy, no clear articulation of what they wanted to achieve, no political guidance and few forces."

Afghanistan has shown that the alliance has become "a corpse, decomposing," Hillier concludes. "Unless the alliance can snatch victory out of feeble efforts, it's not going to be long in existence in its present form."

Ret. Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, a Canadian who worked with the alliance in the early 1990s while he was in charge of the United Nations peacekeeping force in Bosnia, has voiced similar concerns.

"Forget about bombing Serbia from the safety of 20,000 feet," he told CTV.ca earlier this month. "Now that we're having blood being spilled, we have 28 different opinions as to how things should be done. You just can't run an alliance that way."

"It's proven that it's incapable," he added.

Experts south of the border are also cautioning that the alliance may not survive its foray into central Asia.

Charles Kupchan, a senior fellow at an influential American think-tank, warned the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Oct. 22 that NATO is at risk of being seen as ineffective.

"Unity of command has proved elusive, as has co-ordination between NATO and EU efforts," he said. "Moreover, it will be no easy task maintaining the NATO coalition at current levels, with domestic pressure mounting in several member states for winding down of their national contributions."

The German question

Counterinsurgency experts say it would take a force of 400,000 to 500,000 to secure all of Afghanistan, a mountainous country larger than France or Ukraine. But keeping enough NATO troops on the ground to provide even scaled-back security in urban areas could be an uphill battle:

  • Canada has pledged to stop its military operations there by the end of 2010.
  • The Dutch parliament passed a motion earlier this month barring the renewal of its Afghan presence.
  • And Denmark's leader recently said his country's commitment depends on whether Afghanistan's Nov. 7 presidential runoff produces a credible leader.

Many European countries may follow whatever Germany decides to do. Europe's most populous country has had a withdrawal plan in place since April, according to security analyst Sunil Ram. It also has the third-largest contingent of soldiers in Afghanistan.

"It's a tough slog in Germany," said Dan Hamilton, a NATO expert at the Center for Transatlantic Relations in Baltimore. "The image of German soldiers killing civilians haunts the debate, given their history."

German forces have been stationed in a few northwest provinces that were relatively quiet until recently, but they're now engaged in heavy fighting.

Some NATO and German officials have reportedly said the Taliban is targeting Germany, supposedly as a potential weak link in the alliance. Meanwhile, the Bundestag is scheduled to vote on the mission in December.

Winning votes

Obama is said to be waiting for Afghanistan's political situation to stabilize, before announcing whether he will grant McChrystal's request for more troops.

Already the U.S. has about as many soldiers in Afghanistan as the other 41 countries participating in ISAF put together. That proportion could rise much higher if Obama sends in more troops and other NATO choose not to, making the alliance look ineffective.

It's not clear whether that will happen. But the debate over whether to send in more soldiers is creating growing tensions within the alliance, Ram said.

"You have a lot of NATO countries who don't want to be there. They went in under the impression they were a stabilization force, similar to what they have done in the Balkans -- only problem is, they walked into a war," he said.

Public opinion is divided across Europe, the U.S. and Afghanistan about whether NATO forces should continue the war.

Poll results released in September by the German Marshall Fund, a non-profit group that has offices on both sides of the Atlantic, found that only 37 per cent of Afghans think NATO should remain in their country. Fifty per cent of Afghans polled said NATO forces should leave immediately.

In Europe, two-thirds of respondents said NATO is incapable of stabilizing the country. Even in the U.S., which initiated the war, the poll found that 56 per cent of Americans were optimistic about the mission.

Regardless of public opinion, if NATO fails to stamp out the Taliban it would raise questions about whether Western countries need the alliance at all, Hamilton said.

"(Afghanistan) is the most acute and direct security threat to Europeans and North Americans that we face in the world today," he said. "If we aren't able to master our most direct challenge, then what's the alliance for?"

Comments are now closed for this story

Jawad Al-Afghani
said
0 0

NATO came to secure Afghanistan, but not only they failed miserably there, but the problems spilled over into Pakistan. Failure can't be more obvious than this. NATO was never meant to fight an unconventional and a guerrilla war in a turbulent country such as Afghanistan.

The West is trying to take shortcuts in Afghanistan and be warned that the Soviets tried and failed. The Soviets took a shortcut by supporting a bloody coup in 1978 and the West is making the same mistake by pushing for democracy.

But the West is also greedy an unrealistic about how much it wants to do in Afghanistan: They want achieve democracy, human rights, women's rights and a victory over a stubborn insurgency. There is saying in Afghanistan, "You can't hold two watermelons in one hand". Well, NATO and the West are trying to hold four of them!


MJ
said
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Yes, it is!!! Plus the fact that many of the NATO partners won't pull their weight in many situations that NATO sanctions.


DHW
said
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NATO was an alliance constructed to contain Communism (anyone remember that?), and to specifically prevent the USSR from overrunning Western Europe. It has served its purpose, and it is no longer in Canada's interest to prop up a bunch of European countries that have larger militaries than we ever will again. It is time for a new alliance structure, one with countries we can count on to help us should we need it. Canada, the USA and the UK would be the core of it as we all will fight if push comes to shove, and we have a common geopolitical interest in the North Atlantic. Afghanistan is a long way from there, and should be a problem for the Chinese, Russians and Indians not NATO.


Portes
said
0 0

NATO wil survive, but not in it's current form. It will evolve into a military patnership rather than its present form. They will share the info, but countries that do not want to be involved in future conflicts will not have too.

NATO has been fighting a war to draw rather than win, it was tried in Nam and it did not work. The only way to win a war is how it was done in WW2,not the way it is being done now. One big problem half of the NATO group don't want to put their forces in harms way. President Obama does not want to make any decisions and therefore everything is up in the air. His advisors have given him the facts,but he does not want to upset the extreme left of his poarty, by doing this he is putting his troops and Canadas' in harms way. If he does not want to support the mission I suggest that he pull his forces out and then let all hell break loose in that area if the world


Dean
said
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NATO is just an old boys club. It would seem that other than a few states, the Europeans haven't got the stomach to engage in this war. I guess it's better to let the U.S., Canada, and Britain duke it out for them. You would think they would help with troops and in different sections of the country in order to get the job done. Afterall, they live a lot closer to it than the rest of us do.


david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
0 0

I have to agree with DHW,, part of the mission of NATO was to put the brakes on the spread of communism. Somehow it seems the mission is morphed into some thing totally different. No matter how hard the Russians tried to IMPOSE their form of socialism onto Afghanistan they resisted with resounding success. For the life of me, I cannot understand how the smart people think they can go over there and GIVE the people democracy, when they so obviously don't WANT it !!! I've said it many times before they have been governing themselves in a tribal fashion for generations and it is what they want. Their tribes are not threatening us in any way,, leave them alone! Now, some would argue Al qaeda would flourish and THEY pose a threat to us, I would agree on that, and there lies the problem. NATO not only fails to fundementally identify the enemy, but will not/cannot fight the enemy face to face. Until someone somewhere sometime admits to what has to be done, this problem will never go away.


Peter in MB
said
0 0

MJ has a good point. Canada had a population of 30 million and we send 3,000 troops , countries like Germany, France, Italy have a 10 times the population of Canada but send only 100- 300 troops each. NATO started this fight but Like always Its Canada the U.S.A. and the British doing all the fighting and all the dying.

WPG
said
0 0

Before we all blame NATO for this mess, lets get down to basics. To win any war you must first capture the land area and occupy it.Russia tried the same tactic as the US did in Viet Nam. Go out for the day from your secure base and return at night. Gee how stupid an idea is this? Really stupid as it gives the rebels time every night to go and dig holes to bury roadside bombs.Occupy the land dummys - put patrols and or snipes on the roadways and shoot anyone who's dug a hole and now carring parcels towards it.The rebels would soon stop digging holes is there bodies would be occupying them.


GUS
said
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1. The original purpose going to Afghanistan was to secure this central Asian position so an OIL-pipeline could run from the -STAN countries southward.2. Let's stop calling it NATO, when in reality its the USA that actually runs things.3. When will the EU realize that it is all grown up and doesn't need the USA anymore...the EU is as big, and stronger financially (and, yes, has some military might), that it can exist in the world without US "protection"......WWII is over, let's move on


Ron
said
0 0

NATO has been searching for a raison d'etre ever since the fall of the Berlin Wall. I know because I worked there. Unfortunately, it has too many members, too little resource management structure, too many bosses, plus the US can never influence the others enough to get a consensus that they want. For these reasons, NATO will become a footnote in history in the near future. Which isn't a bad thing. NATO accomplished what it was made to do - they beat the Soviet Union at their own game. Now it's time for a re-structured world political system that can find consensus on the timely and urgent issues facing us all. Good luck!

Fact Check
said
0 0

Japan and Germany had terrible dictators and these thriving democracies are now our best friends. We need to keep making friends. NATO needs a full commitment this alliance kept us all safe not a useless peice of paper that says the USA will protect me so I can ignore defense.


Graham
said
0 0

Afghanistan is doing for NATO what "peacekeeping" did for the UN. It's showing it to be a confused, ineffective, indecisive and weak coalition of states that expect success to fall in it's lap without any real work being done. There's a new world order taking shape and if the "western" nations don't soon wake up and realize it, they're going to be left behind. There's a mindset in NATO generally, and in the USA particularly, that nobody can defeat or even threaten them and that success is guaranteed simply by showing up. Well, guess what? The Vietnamese kicked the American's butts and the Taliban are now kicking NATO's butts precisely because both wanted it more! They knew what it took to win and they did it! If NATO can't come up with anything better than this debacle, they may as well close up shop and go home! In any case, I can see no reason for the continued membership of either Canada or the USA in this shell of an organization. Let Europe look after itself! It certainly has the money and resourses to do so so why are we spending ours?


Kitty Sui in Vancouver: China should step up
said
0 0

China should be boycotted unless they live up to thier responsibilities as a large economic citizen. Terrorists hurt the world economy so everybody has an interest that way and for the security of the people. China all to often uses it security veto to get better deals everytime the world acts China vetos it after signing a juicy oil contract. I just wished China cared about people.


RZ
said
0 0

NATO should simply be disbanded, especially given that co-operation between nations does not necessarily have to be institutionalized today and NATO practically lost its raison d'être since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. Not to mention, one cannot genuinely call the war in Afghanistan a NATO effort, given that the bulk of NATO's troops come from only three countries (USA, UK, and Canada) as mentioned in previous comments.


Stan Refrem
said
0 0

Nato had an A-plus star performance during the cold War. I was proud to have served as a soldier in 3 Nato deployments to Europe.Afghanistan? 95% of Canadians could not pick it out on a map after 8 years of Nato presence. Hint...it's NOT in Europe and NOT a threat.


David in Dartmouth
said
0 0

Well.... there you have it!!! My supicions confirmed by General Hillier and some very concise insights by Mr.Al-Afghani.This is the end result when ACADEMICS....AND POLITICIANS!!!! have to much to say!!!After all.... it is not their home threatened or they are not the ones paying with THEIR!!...blood and lives.There should be a law passed strictly prohibiting the dispatch of our forces to a hostile theatre unless the rules are spelled out in advance ie: what the mission intends to achieve and when is it that we know it is achieved. Anything less is a gross diservice to our young men and women in uniform....and oh... by the way any of you academic do-gooders want to grab the helmet and the weapon to stand the post?..... I didn't think so either.


Tono
said
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I hope so. NATO has been obsolete since 1992. The USA just uses it now to continue its control over the NATO countries.


Drew
said
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NATO clearly has to do some soul searching about its reason for existing (seems like its going the way of the League of Nations)...but that being said, someone has to stabilize that country, otherwise it will be yet another victory of the muhajideen over a superpower, and they will be a far graeter resurgence. Unlike many I don't think it has to be a democracy; a central government with authority everywhere in the country would eb a major victory, and I can't see how anything other than a dictator could keep Afghanistan from anarchy (consider it the lesser of two evils).


eddytoronto
said
0 0

Canadas and Americas Phoney War in Afghanistan!Canadian and American military is in Afghanistan for two reasons. First to restore and control the world’s largest supply of opium for the world heroin markets and to use the drugs as a geopolitical weapon against opponents, especially Russia. That control of the Afghan drug market is essential for the liquidity of the bankrupt and corrupt Wall Street financial mafia.According even to an official UN report, opium production in Afghanistan has risen dramatically since the downfall of the Taliban in 2001.It has been documented that Washington hand-picked the controversial Hamid Karzai from Bush Uni Cal, a Pashtun warlord from the Popalzai tribe, long in the CIA’s service.The problem for the US power elites around Wall Street and in Washington is the fact that they are now in the deepest financial crisis in their history. That crisis is clear to the entire world and the world is acting on a basis of self-survival.


Tyler
said
0 0

Hard to believe a few thousand drug dealing terrorists can weaken the resolve of the weak European leadership who knows first hand the horror of ignoring killers resulting in world war 2


Vic
said
0 0

We must pay tribute to our Canada's fallen soldiers. They inspired our peacekeeping mission against the Talibans in the Kandahar region.The war in Afghanistan is becomming meanlingless! Since Bush dynasty has no intention to knockout the Taliban entirely. Obviouly, NATO is only a puppet organizationunder U.S. wrong direction.


reece
said
0 0

NATO was created many decades ago during a time where there was no free-trade. Now that we have competing interests in different parts of the world we find nations such as the USA turning a blind eye to real evil...like China, Saudi Arabia and up until recently Iraq. Why should we aid another NATO member while that member actually created the problem in the first place? No recrimination intended, but Ronald Reagan and his Iran-Contra scandal, and his proping up Saddam Hussein in Iraq while ignoring genocide in that country. I mean, fast forward only a few decades later under Bush Jr - the man is fighting the policies of Ronald Regan. Bush is fighting the platform's of his old party - why should Canada and Europe join in on that heap of crap. So no, let's back off this archaic club.


Norman
said
0 0

Nato was created to present a unified front to the then feared Red Army and a Soviet assault on western Europe. Soviet Russia is no more thou Putin and the recycled KGB may wish otherwise. That Nato doesn't hold together in Afghanistan shouldn't surprise. Most memebr nations don't see the Taleban as a viseral death threat to them. 9/11 was an American issue for most of them.


Jim McB
said
0 0

Hillier and McKenzie got it right. NATO's purpose has been eradicated and it is expensive to run. The Alliance simply pumps money into Belgium and particularly Brussels, but that is not needed either as the EU is headquartered there now.When we were protecting Europe they were interested on that side of the ocean, their costs were minimal and ours was enormous (Canada and the US) to keep units on the ground . When dealing with Europeans they are always interested when the costs are low and the effort is minimal and they are not embarrased to make a profit from those who are helping. When the risks are high they fade.These people are so atuned to having been on the recieving side of security that providing it at a cost is out of the question. Their national goals are embodied in the EU and thus we now have little in common. They would legislate against us at the drop of a hat if they could make a nickel.AUSCANZUKUS was and remains a better organization. NATO was built on its principles but the basic relationship between the countries was never as strong. I would be sad to see the Danes and the Dutch fall by the wayside for they are good allies, but the rest would not be a great loss. If it is NATO's time we should let it go, and the UN is well past is best before date and should be turfed as well!


Richard L. Provencher
said
0 0

It's time for NATO to reassess what its role is in world conflicts. As a body they have failed to be cohesive in Afghanistan. Only three countries are in large numbers in difficult areas. Besides, why does Nato feel the need to provide a rescue mission? Where are the world's armies? Where are the Muslim countries? Do they not care their brothers are killing each other, men, women and children, from suicide bombers?


eddytoronto
said
0 0

The Afghan minister of counter narcotics says foreign troops are earning money from drug production in Afghanistan.He went on to say that NATO forces are taxing the production and shipment of opium in the regions of the world!A recent report by the United Nations states that Afghan opium is having a devastating impact on the world, killing thousands in consumer countries.Meanwhile, The New York Times reported on Wednesday that Ahmad Wali Karzai, a brother of the Afghan president, is involved in the opium trade, meets with Taliban leaders, and is also a CIA operative.


joyce
said
0 0

****Now that we have competing interests in different parts of the world we find nations such as the USA turning a blind eye to real evil...like China, Saudi Arabia and ....******==================Why is CTV allowing hateful messages like that.............


Snow In Winter
said
0 0

NATO does not belong in an Asian war created out of whole cloth by an American president who had no interest in world affairs or the truth. The mess created can only be repaired by Afghanistan and its neighbours, probably at consideable cost to the locals. (Refer to domino effect cited as reason to not abandon Vietnam war.) As in Vietnam, the Afghans are primarily interested in getting rid of foreign meddlers. We created the mess, but only they can fix it. Time to leave, NATO, USA, Canada and Britain. However, we should apologise to Afghanistan, Pakistan and their neighbours for messing up their neighbourhood.

Paul G.
said
0 0

This is a war for control of oil pipelines and, to a lesser degree, of the heroin trade. Bring our boys home NOW. No more bloodshed in support of corporate and military profits.


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