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Tory gov't unload boxes of stimulus spending details

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The Canadian Press

Date: Thursday Oct. 29, 2009 10:30 PM ET

OTTAWA — The Harper government has dumped three boxloads of information about its efforts to stimulate Canada's sputtering economy on Parliament's independent budget watchdog.

Kevin Page had asked for more information, complaining that the sketchy data provided up to now made it impossible to tell whether $12 billion in stimulus spending is having any impact on the economy.

But rather than provide an easy-to-analyse spreadsheet listing infrastructure projects and how much money has been spent on each of them to date, the government flooded Page Thursday with 4,476 pages of documents.

A spokesman for Transport and Infrastructure Minister John Baird said the documents are in fact one big spreadsheet.

"The reason it is so large is because of the thousands of projects we have got out the door. That's good news," said Chris Day.

Nevertheless, it will likely take Page's office days, if not weeks, to input the information into an electronic database for analysis.

The tactic sparked opposition accusations that the government is trying to bury the parliamentary budget officer in paper.

"I think the PBO is being buried with data now and the goal is the same: To confound and confuse the general public," said New Democrat MP Pat Martin.

"They don't want to tell us how much they've really spent."

The boxloads of paper were unloaded just before Baird appeared at a Commons committee, where he was peppered with opposition demands for an accurate accounting of exactly how much money has been spent to date.

He made no apologies for not delivering the information in a more user-friendly form. He said 200 officials at Infrastructure Canada have been "working flat out" to get 7,600 projects up and running and that has to be their "first priority."

"The parliamentary budget officer has asked for a significant amount of information. We've given him a significant amount of information," Baird said.

Baird was repeatedly asked during the committee hearing to specify how much money has been spent thus far. He did not provide a figure.

Instead, he explained that the federal government has advanced up to 30 per cent of a project's cost upfront to some municipalities. But in general, he said the government only pays when its municipal and provincial partners submit invoices for work that's been done.

He said he didn't know how much has been advanced to municipalities. As for paying invoices, he later told reporters the government has paid "in the hundreds of millions" so far.

Liberal MP Martha Hall Findlay said the lack of precision is "extremely frustrating."

"We have not yet seen a single answer to (the question) what have you spent so far."

Baird stressed that all of the stimulus announcements are public and posted on a government website. They are also available on an interactive map.

But the announcements are not categorized or easily searchable, nor is it obvious if any of the various lists of projects are complete.

That means it has been next to impossible for any researcher to come to conclusions about how the stimulus money is being spent on a national basis, regardless of whether they want to know about political bias or economic impact.

The Liberal Party has employed two dozen volunteers to assemble its own database, culling information from an array of websites and making their own calls to municipalities to collect more data.

Page made an official request for more data in September. But in a sign that he wasn't holding much hope for government answers, he and his officials are working with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities to obtain details and research directly from municipal governments.

Page complained earlier this month that he did not have enough information to even begin to assess how the stimulus spending is affecting the economy and jobs. The information made available by the government has been incomplete, hard to assemble, and some programs have been dropped or renamed, making them difficult to track, he said.

Even with all the information he requested, Page will have a hard time figuring out the impact on job creation.

Unlike in the United States, the government did not set up a mechanism to track jobs created by the stimulus money. Instead it relies partly on a rule of thumb derived from research done for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities by economists at think-tank Informetrica Ltd.

Baird told the committee the federation has estimated 11,000 direct jobs are created for every $1 billion in stimulus spending.

Comments are now closed for this story

Guy
said
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This is a silly complaint. How exactly is a spreadsheet of projects and amounts supposed to help Kevin Page determine if the stimulus spending is helping the economy? Obviously he needs a list of projects.


Dave
said
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Just another example of how the Conservatives do things. Spend huge money on propaganda telling Canadians how they are stimulating the economy (spin, spin, spin) - but if anyone asks for details... they have nothing to back up their claims. Instead, they muddy the waters. If their claims of econimic stimulation were actually true - they'd deliver proof in an instant in the form of a clear and concise report. Did they do this? No. Why? Because there is zero truth to their claims.


Savant
said
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Does he want the government to do his job for him too? Remember that PAGE is the one that is supposed to generate the report from the 'piles of paper', it isn't up to the government to do the work, then send him the completed product. What would be the point in having his office if he doesn't do the work to reach his conclusions?


rav
said
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The government hands over what the opposition has been wanting and they turn around and complain!!!!We need a Tory majority to stop this non-sense!!!!Rav


Gman
said
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This not for elected officials to comment on the details. It is for the DM's and ADM's and Executive Directors to provide these details and eveidence of the expenditures.A spreadsheet can be made up by anyone...the documentatin and evidence to support the expenditures is what is required. That is not up to politicians to provide.


Island Man
said
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Is this how the Tory Givernment is tracking spending of our tax dollars? Pathetic. They should have individual files on each and every project that has been funded, not three boxes of loose paper. I keep better records at home than they do with thousands of civil servants to manage this on thier behalf...double pathetic.Just another example of Harper's unwillingness to provide Canadians with clear and concise information.


Joe
said
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seems like they are saying "we already told you, now you can do the numbers, we are busy"lol


CMA in Ottawa
said
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No offense but obviously you are not an accountant. Spreadsheets (if well prepared) are an invaluable tool. Just what do you think Mr. Page would like done with all that paper? Organize it by project and get it into a spreadsheet.The spreadsheet could have a wealth of information, I would expect it would indicate how many jobs (temporary and permanent calculated separately) it claims to generate/save as that number was flying around when we decided to spend this money in the first place. I.e. Are we getting good bang for our buck?


James
said
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Funny.. but when I was audited by the government, they wouldn't take my spreadsheet as face value. I had to show them boxes of paper. It was the liberals in power at the time in power at the time.If they gave them a spreadhseet they wouldn't have wanted to see the paper.


Nancy
said
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Liberals and NDP must have the facts to make the allegations or is it just induendo.I switched my vote to the Conservatives wish my Liberal member would cross the floor instead of furthering the dog and pony show everyday.


Wade Ens
said
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I blame the Conservatives for the confusion if they want the opposition to understand they should of used pictures.


Joe the Plumber
said
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3 boxs, I had 4 box for my accountant to prepare my taxes and I run a 3 hundred thousand dollar business.


Dog Lover
said
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I love Pat Martin the way a dog owner loves a pit bull. Not that smart, unpredictable and will attack anything.


martin Cal
said
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When I was aduited and the Govt wanted more information I had to give them boxes of paper too. It was the Libs in poer then. What are they crying about?Martin, Calgary


Jill Rooney
said
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Nice to see our Government is keeping proper books and records and providing them for public review. After 13 yrs of foundations with billions being kept out of reach of the auditor general this is good news.


Tyrone G
said
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If conservatives did not provide the 3 boxes then the Liberals would claim they are hiding something.


wilson61
said
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Page did not ask for lists, he asked for details.He got details.


Roxy - Page just a Liberal appointee
said
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Lets see every Fderal dollar is matched by the Province and the City. The City picks the priority projects and our economy is the best in the western world. Its all good. Page some liberal appointee so you know what to expect. In Adscam the money seems to be diverted no problem with that here.


Portes
said
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If they did not so that ,then the complaint would be that they fiddled the books. That is his job to sort it all out and get to the bottom of it. I am sorry but that is what they wanted and that is what they got. He gets paid to do exactly that


Bruno
said
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Guy, do the Cons not have a proper accounting of their spending? Are they just spending and not keeping track of it?


Frank Buchan
said
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Why does Page even exist? Wouldn't this be a job for the Auditor? I believe the rules are all fiscal issues pass through those hands. If so, that would make Page's entire position either unnecessary or political. If the former, it's wasteful; if the latter, its worse than wasteful. Just let the Auditor General do the job.As for the complaint about too much paper, my guess is it would have been a no-win decision. A single sheet would have led to accusations of hiding something.


Andrew
said
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Opposition complains there is not enough information, then they complain there is to much information. It appears to me Kevin Page wants to get paid for nothing if the current government would have provided a nice spread sheet he would complain the information was to sketchy, if he wanted details he should have expected to receive the thousands of documents that would accompany 12 billion in spending.


Cambob
said
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Wouldn't the Fiberals complain if the government had spent money to sort, bind and index the same boxes? Can we get some real news soon?


cantuc
said
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He was whining about no paperwork amnd now he has some . So stop whining .


Dayton
said
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Page wants to go into detail doesn't he? A simple balance sheet would not satisfy this man anyway. Sift through the info otherwise keep the trap shut.


JR form Ontario
said
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If they had of just given a simple spread sheet the opposition would have said that the government was hiding something and not giving enough details. There is no winning with the opposition no matter how or what you do.


david sawkie[saskatchewan farmer]
said
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Damned if ya do,,,, damned if ya don't.This page fella can read, I suppose, maybe he should earn his wages and read what he asked for.Better to give him everything rather than being accused of trying to hide something.But the loyal opposition would never do that, would they???


Inkmont
said
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If the government just sent a spreadsheet list, the opposition would be crying that they are withholding details to prevent the watchdog from getting a complete picture. What a bunch of nonsense--and questionable reporting using terms like "dumped" and "flooded." They have provided the supporting documents--as they should for an auditor to study.


The Other Lowell in BC
said
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Seems to me if Harper was really into accountability, he would have insisted that the programs be tracked properly which means someone responsible for entering into spreadsheet/database/etc. any money being spent on individual programs. It isn't a hard thing to do and most well run businesses would insist on having such a system in place to track how much money they are spending. Why should we expect anything less from the government. Giving boxes of scraps of paper seems to be another one of Harper's tactics to confound and confuse. Its hard to believe sometimes that Harper could actually become the prime minister of canada. He has bungled any number of files on his plate and his recent decision to finally visit two of the world's biggest trading partner, India and China but only after he has had to be shoved onto the plane has not served Canadians at all. Harper doesn't seem to have any vision for the country. He spends all of his energy trying to keep in power or figuring out how to do the opposition in.


Chris
said
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That will keep the libs busy for awhile trying to find something wrong that they will not find... At least we will not hear the libs whinning for awhile...


My opinion
said
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What is it with this Kevin Page? He's always in the news, craves the exposure, whines constatly. Is he a mouthpiece for the Liberals. Must be, after all he's a public servant and they all seem to think only the Liberals can be in power.


underwhelmed
said
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Every time the Harper government pulls a stunt like this meant to ridicule a bureaucrat or politician they don't like, they also ridicule Canadians because those bureaucrats and politicians work for US.


Dave From N.S.
said
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One big spreadsheet?? Give me a break; are they not tracking this any other way?Put all your info into one completely unusable, huge and hard to read document?This stinks of political game-playing, or perhaps it is simple incompetence.


Fiend, AB
said
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Wade Ens,Funniest comment I have read all day. Well put, sir.I hope the majority of Canadians are at the point where they have lost patience in continuous minority governments. I want to give Harper a chance to run this country with a majority and allow him to make the tough decisions without concern of the opposition forever threatening the stability of the country.


DC
said
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He seriously expects us to buy the excuse that they are so busy getting the projects up and running that nobody could take 5 minutes for each to summarize the project title, a brief description and the amount allocated.The first step in managing money is to understand where it is.


odatjo
said
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Too bad Mr. Baird has to act this way, this is all rather juvenile, and my tax dollars are paying for his ineptitude. What a way to treat Mr. Page. In my work life we responsibly kept records and at the end of the day the numbers were there. Harper's evangelicals seem to feel that keeping records is only for someone else, i.e. the taxpayer, so he has more money to throw around with no accounting ...each of you must really feel proud at the end of the day when you consider how often you acted in a way that is not becoming an elected official of our government.


Robert Swanson
said
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I will pay for yet one more plane ticket to Ottawa, and volunteer my time..will they accept this. or would they prefer it hadn't happened?


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