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Climate change dispute a 'fake debate,' expert says

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Canada AM: Tim Flannery, author of 'Now or Never'
An author describes what he feels is the most pressing issue facing our planet.

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I don't believe all the hype from ether side. You have the oil company scenario on one side and the David Susuki types using scare tactics to lever money out of gov't on the other, both with an agenda. I however believe we should breath clean air, get it clean and don't fret about climate change, however the major pollutors are Russia, China, and India and no body mentions them. I also believe a person should be able to have an opinion without being ridiculed by someone else.

Dennis

Climate change dispute a 'fake debate,' expert says

talking about
Climate change dispute a 'fake debate,' expert says

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Sun. Oct. 18 2009 6:17 PM ET

Confused by all the mixed messages about climate change? There's a good reason for that, says a public relations expert, who argues in a new book that the so-called global warming debate is a tug-of-war between clever PR tactics and sound science.

In 2006, Al Gore's Oscar-winning film "An Inconvenient Truth" catapulted the issue of human-caused climate change out of scientific journals and into the living rooms of average folks.

At the same time, then-president George W. Bush and his staff were touting research that not only questioned whether climate change was a man-made event, but whether it was happening at all.

But James Hoggan, a veteran Vancouver public relations executive and chair of the David Suzuki Foundation, says many of the naysayers are groups with legitimate-sounding names that are actually funded by industries that would suffer economically by climate change legislation or other efforts to curb global warming.

"What I would call them is Astroturf groups," Hoggan told Canada AM earlier this week. "Basically fake grassroots groups of unqualified scientists saying that climate science is questionable."

Hoggan has written a new book on the issue, entitled "Climate Cover-Up: The Crusade to Deny Global Warming."

According to Hoggan, companies that want to dispute environmental science findings -- such as an energy companies seeking to refute climate change data -- hire public relations firms to lobby governments, and the public, to ensure that legislation and public opinion remain favourable to industry.

One way of doing this is to establish a lobby group that appears to be backed by sound science when in fact it is funded by industry money.

An example of this, Hoggan says, is the Advancement of Sound Science Center, formerly the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition. It was founded in the early 1990s by a public relations firm and funded by tobacco company Philip Morris.

The TASSC's job was to discredit research that proved a link between exposure to tobacco smoke and health problems such as cancer and lung disease.

According to Hoggan, such groups hire scientists who aren't devoted to the issue at hand -- "white coats for hire," as he calls them -- and charge them with sowing the seeds of doubt about the legitimate scientists' findings.

"The thing that these groups have in common is that they don't have qualified climate scientists doing climate science and they have a tendency to hide their source of funding," Hoggan says. "So my view is, and what we try to argue in this book, is that we should strip these groups of their right to hide their funding, and so people would know who these groups actually represent."

Hoggan says it's obvious the industry groups have successfully spread their message because media reports legitimize their claims, and because climate change legislation is stalled in both the U.S. and Canada.

"This is serious. If you look at climate mitigation policy in Canada, we don't have one. Essentially Canadian policy would result in an increase in greenhouse gas emissions," Hoggan said.

"So these groups have been highly effective at creating public doubt and taking the pressure off politicians to actually really do something about climate change."

Comments are now closed for this story

Phil
said
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I guess Hogan thinks individuals who don't want to pay more taxes and have their life control by UN bureaucrats are AstroTurf as well.


Mark in Whitby
said
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Regardless of your current position on climate change, it is important to find out what real climate scientists are saying and what the latest and best data available is. The data available now is far better than any previous decade and the telling truth is becoming more clear. www.realclimate.org


Mike
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This is getting more and more difficult for me to understand. Sounds like another "expert" with all the answers is attempting to discredit all those scientists who disagree with the ongoing assertion that the earths climate is changing. Which is a big change in itself. Notice that the buzz word is not "global warming" anymore, but climate change. The earths climate is and always has been in a constant state of flux. If it stopped changing, then I'd be worried. As for this guy, who's to say that the companies who stand to make big bucks from scaring the crap out of us average ignoramuses aren't funding the so-called "legitimate" studies that are the accepted dogma. All I know is that if you look at todays Ice picture in the arctic, the polar cap is growing from what it was two weeks ago. So, big surprise here, it's cold in the Arctic. Near as I can tell, this whole debate is being engineered to permit "conscientious politicians" (oxymoron) to raid our pockets once again to fight a condition that nobody has actually proven exists. Get real scientific proof that there's actually something we can do about halting an admittedly natural process and I'll give you everything I own. Until then keep studying but don't narrow your thinking to one side or the other. If we don't keep an open mind, we're all going to get robbed.


Nike
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LMAO, anybody who DARES to question any theory regarding the concept of manmade climate change must be on the take! Screw this anti-intellectual nonsense! What about the Little Ice Age? The Medieval Warming Period? The planet's climate is in constant flux, but THIS warming is due solely to man's activities? Proof please - rather than just your indignant opinion.


derp
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Nike, maybe if you read a book once in a while you would know something about the issue. But instead you seem quite content to sit there and accuse actual intellectuals of being "anti-intellectual".The article states specific examples. Did you research those claims and find evidence to the contrary? No?

Toby
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Everyone is free to believe what they want. If you think that all of the crap we are spewing into the environment is harmless - then you would have to be a complete idiot.


tom in to
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There used to be a mile of ice over toronto 25 thousand years ago. Greenland used to have cattle, sheep and goats a thousand years ago and was actually green. Five hundred years ago you could ice skate on the river thames in london. The climate goes up and down all the time. However, we are the cause of an acceleration towards warming. CO2 levels have not been this high since the dinosaurs. Don't tell me this does not effect anything as the oil profiteers want you to believe.


Chris in Ajax
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What does it cost us if we reduce our emissions and impact on the planet but were wrong about climate change? Money! What does it cost us if we were wrong about climate change and did nothing? Everything! I try hard not to judge those that are willing to put my childrens lives at risk and for that matter the very civilization that they abide in but when I look at what they are willing to risk it makes me weep. Start taking responsibility for your actions and clean up your act!


david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
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Hoggan said: "One way of doing this is to establish a lobby group that appears to be backed by sound science which in fact it is industry money" Okay, what is SO wrong with using industry money to do science??? Is it always better to steal MY money [taxes] to do research??That said,, did 'The nature of things' get produced using tax dollars or not?? Where did the money for Al gore's osacar-winning movie come from??? Both of these productions use 'scientific proof' that is dubious at best! The source to finance THEIR propaganda is not questioned by Hoggan, I think it should be , if only to make him LOOK as though he being fair and objective.......Why do people on that side of the issue ALWAYS insinuate 'junk science' when there is plenty of that on their side too????


Jim
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I have this really great fossil of a brain coral. Most divers who have spent any time in the Carribean are familiar with this organism. Mine's about 140 Million years old and came from rocks washed by the Moose River, about 100 km upstream from Moosonee. For those of you not from Canada (or Ontario), that's Cariboo country at the bottom of James' Bay, at the treeline and darned close to sub-arctic. The North American tectonic plate has not moved north a whole lot in the last 140 Million years, and there sure as heck weren't any people around back then wringing their hands and crying about how they were bringing the end of the world upon themselves.The human ego knows no bounds.


Drew H
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When the vast majority of scientists from universities and govermnment agencies worldwide agree that we are in a period of overall global warming, and regional climate change (note the choice of words), and a minority of scientists, most of which are paid for by industry dollars that benefit from a "no change" agenda say that there is no climate change, is it so tough to decide what should we believe?

Just because it will take dollars and committment to change, why are we so reluctant to believe it? How much risk that the majority of scientists are wrong are you willing to take when the impacts if they are right are fundamentally life altering, and quite likely if we do nothing, LIFE ENDING for the majority of inhabitants on our planet. I'm in for whatever I can do to curtail global warming at home and influencing others... make your now...


Wayne (Waterloo)
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Even if it was 100% natural (and I doubt that it is), that doesn't mean we should ignore it and not try to slow or stop it. There are many "natural" things in life that we do our best to stop: heart attacks, disease, floods, crime, .... I would expect that most people would think that slowing or stopping these natural things is better than doing nothing.To believe that people are not contributing factors to our environment is naive. Just because we are small compared to the world doesn't mean that what we do doesn't matter. Tiny bacteria can kill the largest of animals. All you need is enough of them and have them attack a single but vital organ of the animal. The organ becomes damaged and the whole animal dies.And yes, the earth has warmed and cooled in the past. It is believed that some of the world's mass extinctions occurred simultaneously with the extreme versions of climate change. And yes, the earth recovered, but it does not recover back to as it was before. Otherwise, we'd have lots of dinosaurs still roaming the earth.And the recoveries were relatively short on a geological scale (several millions of years). But compared to the scale of human existance, that is a really long time.


B. Kelley, Ontario
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Okay, so we're all at the mercy of "experts" without really knowing whether or not they really are experts. Just how does one go about shopping for an environmental scientist to rely on?

The problem here is that the whole environmental field is more akin to politics than it is about pure science. At the end of the day it boils down to opinion vs. opinion, theory vs. theory and vested interest vs. vested interest. So, who can we rely on? Certainly not politicians or governments or the news media. The incomes of crusaders like Al Gore and David Suzuki depend on defending their viewpoints and private industry puts their financial health ahead of everything else so there's no great credibility in any of those quarters.

The U.N. seems to have a hidden agenda for everything they do and have really become just a global joke. Sadly, we are left to choose which "truth" we want to believe in and defend. That's beginning to sound more like religion than science.


Scotia girl
said
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I cannot believe the ignorance of some people. Climate change, global warming and the pollution of our environment are real and we ARE ALREADY seeing the effects of our lack of action.


James
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One more conspiracy theorist on his soap box...however, he may have a point. There are groups out there bent on discrediting the science suggesting human caused climate change funded by those who have something to lose if action is taken.

Here's where it gets confusing because there is legitimate research that questions whether this is caused by human activity or a naturally occuring change that happens to our planet and has for ages. To me it's a perfect example of politics and self interested corpoprations hijacking honest scientific debate.

How am I supposed to know who is giving me the straight goods and who is just blowing smoke? I agree with declaring the source of funding. That would at least give an idea of the bias.


SOS.ABC
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To all ... who deny climate change - are you too lazy or stupid to read the abundant evidence? Because this is an issue for all of humanity, the evidence is freely available on the web - just ensure you don't get suckered (again) by the anti-intelligence movement pages, they focus on denying climate change (without any evidence), denying natural selection (ditto), that nuclear weapons are in Iraq (ditto), and that cigarettes don't cause cancer.


Jim Cripwell
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It is a funny thing, but CO2 levels in the atmosphere are going up at an unprecedented rate. However, global temperatures have at least not gone up for 11 years or so, and may even be going down. Warmaholics are scrambling to try and explain why this is happening; without much success. It will be interesting to see what the hard data tells us about world climate in the next 5 years or so.


Donna Laframboise
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Mr. Hoggan is the founder of the notorious DeSmogBlog.com, a website whose philosophy is profoundly anti-free-speech. In essence, its argument is that anyone who disagrees with its global warming views is a liar and therefore not entitled to free expression. Don't take my word for it, check out the right-hand banner that appears on every page of its site which declares: "Free speech does not include the right to deceive...

Mr. Hoggan is a PR flak who also happens to be chairman of the David Suzuki Foundation. He sees global warming as a struggle between supposedly pure-as-the-driven-snow PR flaks such as himself and PR flaks on the other side of the issue. In reality, lots of folks are participating in the global warming debate. Most of us are not hired guns but ordinary citizens trying to make sense of an important and confusing topic.

Dennis
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I don't believe all the hype from ether side. You have the oil company scenario on one side and the David Susuki types using scare tactics to lever money out of gov't on the other, both with an agenda. I however believe we should breath clean air, get it clean and don't fret about climate change, however the major pollutors are Russia, China, and India and no body mentions them. I also believe a person should be able to have an opinion without being ridiculed by someone else.


averagejoe
said
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For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in global temperatures. This is a fact. No organization has rigged the the data from every thermometer in the world.


Murray in SK
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I have to agree that the global warming/ climate change propaganda is really about PR vs legitimate science but I think he has the sides reversed. I would like to see a report following the money to see who is funding who and what companies stand to make money on carbon bucks. I believe GE/NBC would not be in favor of the exposure.


John Global
said
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The smoking gun in the climate debate comes from the analysis of ice core samples going back millions of years (see the internet for the evidence). These show patterns of ups and downs but the current levels of carbon dioxide in the ice cores are higher than ever before. What is not clear is the relationship between man's activities and the high carbon dioxide readings.

However, what is clear is that pollution levels globally are beyond the recuperative powers of planet earth. This goes well beyond climate change and requires action. The current activities by politicians who falsely claim expertise on climate change are hurting the environmental clean-up job. When they become discredited, which will happen, the public will no longer be interested in the debate. This is the real danger. Crying wolf gathers headlines - not results. Canada has the expertise to lead the world with a new "Canada Accord" that revises the Kyoto Accord, which was conceptually sound, but was fraught with implementation blunders.


Greg in the Hammer
said
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Why doesn't CTV have Lord Monkton from the UK on their show. He is a renowned climatologist and has debunked all of the main arguements of the "end of the world is near" crowd like David Suzuki and Al Gore. (Both of whom have refused to debate him). The Mann Hockey Stick, the data used to replace the Mann Hockey Stick have all been debunked as Junk Science by qualified climatologists like Lord Monkton. If you want to know why climate is changing... look up in the sky at the big yellow ball called the Sun. The earth is 4 billion years old and its climate is always changing. The Climate Change movement has been pirated by the socialists of the world who needed a place to go when the Iron Curtain fell. Its about fleecing the wealthy nations of the world to transfer money to the third world while keeping them poor. We should be worrying about pollution and feeding all of our people not whether or not you can sail the Northwest Passage in July.


Michel from Ottawa
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Typical of CTV to publish this propaganda... If you do not believe in it you must be working or hired by someone that would be affected by such changes... Why not interview with these scientist and find out directly from them... Also of these on CTV have written a book, made there money so of course they have to be right... it's about the money and not the science. All I know is that they cannot predict accurately the weather for tomorrow so how can they tell us about 20 to 30 years from now? Also why where there ice age, and if the ice melted that meant global warming Who would of caused this then?All answer they cannot explain... So in conclusion it's about one thing only.... The money!And of course, if you sell a lefty a book they will believe it!


CROSS
said
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"...But James Hoggan, a veteran Vancouver public relations executive, says..."Really...!I think that says it all...!I don't know if the man realizes that stars "pulsate" and when they do they give off varing amounts of energy. Our Sun is one of those stars, and science is still in the dark as to how it functions. Where is the evidence telling us that the Sun's temperature has remained absolutely constant over the past century. Put the facts on the table please instead of more "theories" about how the sun works added to "theories" of global warming producing the "fact" that we and everything on the planet are doomed because of planes and cars.


greg/mb
said
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Looks like we have here a PR guy, running a PR campaign against another PR guy running a PR campaign debunking so-called global warming. But really what we have here is Zero science and 100% B.S.


Katherine
said
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I personally believe in global warming. All one has to do is look at Canada's Northern spaces changing at an alarming speed and then there is little room for doubt. Scientists have been talking about greenhouse gases since the 1980's. I remember Ronald Reagan commenting (albeit the comments were not altogether bright) on the scientists concerns about the environment. Even if the science is not altogether accurate. How would it be a bad thing if we should start using natural, renewable, and clean energy sources? Would it truly be a horrible thing to demand that companies be environmentally responsible to future generations? I have been puzzled since the very beginning by the naysayers because I would think, regardless of the reasons, everyone wants to live in a clean and safe environment. The increase in asthma in those living in smog infested cities and the parts of Ontario that are revolting to the eye because of the greed of corporations and the fat cats, should provide impetus enough for Canadians to demand better from the companies that want to do business with us. I also don't understand what difference does it make if our cars run on solar, hydrogen fuel, etc . . . rather than gas and oil? Frankly, as long as my car moves, goes vroom vroom and takes me to where I want to go; I don't much care what's fueling the engine.


Adele Hay:Credible Scientists Deny Change
said
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The legitmate scientists know there is no man made climate change. Just the activist scientists looking for research handouts spead the rumour that climate change is man made.


SOS.ABC
said
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Opinions without supporting evidence are worthless, and can be dangerous to others.I suggest the climate change deniers run a hose from their car into their house and let the care idle overnight. If you survive, the the evidence proves that global warming theory is incorrect. Anyone suggesting that we can continue pumping trillions of tonnes of toxic exhaust into our thin atmosphere without impact is not entitled to an opinion, because they are dangerous to the rest of us.


Michele-London
said
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In the grand scheme of things, is it not futile to debate whether climate change is occurring or not? we KNOW we are collectivly putting far too much polution into the atmosphere, we KNOW dumping waste in the river will damage ecosystems, we KNOW better than to drive SUVs. Isnt the point to stop poisoning our enviroment that we know we are killing? So what if we're causing climate change or not, you wouldnt let you house become a hovel, why would anyone let it happen to the world. I, for one, would be more than happy to pay a few more dollars in taxes every year to update technology and legislation if it means living in a better place.


Jim
said
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The seas are the the largest part of our world, but the most overlooked part of the solution. ...Phyto...and larger plankton ...convert Carbon Dioxide into Calcium Carbonate....the "snow" you see when you watch the deep sea shows. As with all plants, the greater the supply of food, the greater the expansion of the biomass. The ocean is the great regulator.We are here because of the seas.No educated person would argue that we aren't helping things with our vehicles, power plants and all, but, in the big picture the oceans will conquer all. The rest of you might not still be around 'tho. ;)You editing guys...appreciate your work and thanks for taking the time to read and approve my posts. BUT. Three times now, you have compressed my posts without editing out words. If I write a paragraph, I expect it to be presented as a paragraph. Often, I do this for tone. So please do not compress all three or four of my paragraphs into one mass. To an educated man that makes me look like an ass and I don't appreciate that.


Pip
said
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As quite a few posters have noted, it all comes down to where the money comes from. Having read a couple of tomes on the issue, I found them to be more hype and politics than solid science, both side cherry-picking "facts" and building their cases on incomplete foundationsI would like to see studies where every item of data is presented along with what are considered "key" items, as well as the reasoning and methodology that determines those key items. Most of all, I would like to know the origin of the funds paid for the research, and the political reasons and direction that may have been conditions for the grant.I'm afraid my days of accepting highly charged items of interest at face value disappeared decades ago when I discovered there were other colors than black and white.


leom
said
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Here is what I would like to see, a real debate. We woke up one morning and we had global warming, end of story. There has never been any real debate in the media between the two sides. The believers are very arrogant and just scoff at you, if you try to question (debate) them, why is that? Why has warming been re-named climate change? Why is the media reluctant to interview people from the other side? I'm starting to warm up to the sun spot theory, no pun intended.


JIM
said
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Cudos Greg the Hammer!!I have a C note on the table saying that most of the wee poster's here are currently Googling the term "iron curtain".Feel old yet? God bless!


Kathleen
said
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In University years back, and although it was supposed to be a small report, I ended up spending an entire year researching all the available scientific literature on paleoclimate. What I found was interglacials (warming periods) have been happening since the earth began and there is ample evidence from every geographic location to prove this. The extent of the interglacials is as varied as the worlds climate. Some created almost complete thawing of the poles in as little as 10 years and others didn't allow the poles to completely melt before the balance tipped the other direction again and took us into a glaciation again. Some fluxes are 10,000 yrs whereas others are in the millions of years. Do humans have an influence? Of course - but the significance of our influence in relation to all the other terrestrial and extraterrestrial influences on an annual or decade or millenium,... basis is very debateable. I think we need to quit arguing about the fact its occuring and start cleaning up our world because we only have one and our mess isn't just going to magically disappear.


Gord in Sask
said
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We need to stop taking information presented to us on the internet & other media sources at face value. We all need to be willing to do a little research on our own to seperate fact from fiction.


EmmyPankhurst
said
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This man is definitely against anyone who questions the notion that so called global warming is caused solely by humankind. Check out his credentials. Yet another publicity hound funded by left wing radicals.


Wendy
said
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Do the nay sayers think the brown cloud over Asia is not real too.


M D
said
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So, the glaciers melting, melting tundra. and the polar seas becoming free of ice mean nothing to you global warming nay-sayers? Those things are facts. What the so-called debate is usually stated as now is whether mankind is causing it, but the PR groups are only pushing that because they can't say that warming hasn't occurred anymore. Look to peer reviewed science: that's the only reliable source of information. Peer-reviewed science is extremely clear on the likelyhood that the warming is caused by mankind.


K. Blake, Ontario
said
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There are people who still believe the earth is round. They can find scientists to back up their claim. Just like there were scientists who claim smoking is not bad for your health. You can still hire them for an opinion as well. In fact I am sure some of those same scientists are working for the climate change deniers right now. Yes the earth is always in a state of change. In fact CO2 emmission were higher in the history of the earth. It was when the earth was covered in thick lush forests. Long before man even existed. It took some kind of natural disaster like a super valcano to kill of much of the dense forest to start an ice age. Yes we have had more than one ice age but always as a result of a massive disaster that caused the change. This time around it is human activity that has caused the change to evolve far faster than a natural evolution. The massive deforestation (caused by human activity) combined with dramatice increases in burning fossil fuel has cause a man made climate change effect.This is the prevailing scientific theory not purchased by wealthy oil companies but put forward by rightfully concerned scientists.In my opinion we are already too late because of ill informed people who think the earth is still flate. Now is the time to begin to plan how to react to the dramatic changes about to happen in our lifetime.


Ryan - Regina
said
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At the Royal Saskatchewan museum, Saskatchewan geologic history is depicted. Millions of years ago the Regina area of SK was further North than it currently is but was also home to an inland tropical sea and surrounded by lush rain forests.My question to theose that fear global warming - where is our normal climate? Just because human memeory and recent geologic history have our climate pegged to a certain range does not mean that this is where the climate should be normally.I have also heard reports that we are heading for a 30 year cooling period.We should not fear climate change but prepare for it. I also agree that we should do as little as possible to negatively impact the environment. As humans we have stewardship over the earth and as good stewards we should leave the earth in good shape - avoid littering, polluting water, soil and air with harmful substance, reduce our land usage footprint, care for and protect natural landscapes and animal/plant species.


Fact Check
said
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The deniers are happy to look at the facts. The pro cc side seems to just want to attack those providing the facts.The pro cc group must admit theu have made numerous miscalucations and that the warmest year on record is 1936.


Matt from Edmonton
said
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I find it very frustrating when people say that climate change as a result of human actions is a hoax. Sure, maybe it is true that some "David Suzuki types" are looking to just make money, but that doesn't dispel the fact that climate change is actually occurring. Another frustrating thing is when people say things like, "It's unusually cold for this time of year, so global warming must not be happening." One of the problems is that the majority of people are not educated on the issue and therefore will believe whatever is in the media. I'm not saying all people are like that, but some people are just ignorant. What people need to understand is that global warming has so far been a relatively slow process, as in the average temperature of the earth has risen only by a few degrees over many years. However, this change in temperature is enough to throw off delicate balances in the world's ecosystems. As for people who say that the northern ice cap is actually growing, well maybe it is. But you have to take into account the history of the ice over many years. If you do that, it is actually disturbing how much ice has melted and not returned at the polar ice caps. It is frustrating and also sad that there are so many people who just don't care about climate change. There are so many consequences that will harm us all if we don't do something about it. And the thing is, we have the technology to do something about it "today" but people either don't care or don't believe there is a problem.


Fred
said
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Pollution degrades our quality of life. Air quality, water quality are all tight to consumption. We need to stop the expansion of pollutants and focus more on how we can live with less by slowing down and work less. I think the world wide drive into renewable energy for transportation, heating and production can only make our lives easier, happier and healthier. Climate change is a good motivator to move us into a new economy as profound as the Internet. We all have a lot to live for and will adapt to climate change as it comes. WE HAVE TOO!

G. Lewis
said
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Amazing that with one stroke of the pen, I have been labeled a 'fake', and a fraud, (likely in the employee of big oil) - for the crime of having credible data that calls into question the accepted doctrine of 'man made climate change'. I have worked for 26 years in the field of emmission tracking - and take acception to the opinion du jour.


Andrew
said
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Sulphur in the atmosphere????? Are you serious? Global Warming is a natural event so why would you try and stop it? Anthropogenic influence might be speeding it up but I don't think sulphur is a good offset for our impact. Wouldn't that cause things like acid rain? Humans just seem to make more problems while trying to fix the problems they have already created. Let's all stop trying to play mother nature.


Brian
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I can see there are a lot of confused people out there. It's really scary that a lot of people still don't understand the urgency to dealing with this global issue. What's so hard to understand that there are groups out there purposely releasing junk science to stall action and run interference to discredit real science. What's so hard to understand that the oil, gas, coal, and nuclear/uranium industries have the most to lose economically and are the ones likely funding this junk science? Use your brains, people!! Has the crap that has come out of Ottawa from Harper and Washington (during the Bush years) clouded your judgment that much? While the above industries have the most to lose if we smarten up and begin combating this issue, we (ALL of us) have the most to lose if we don't. Please don't let the corporate-influenced government influence you. Use your judgment. When's the last time a corporation could be trusted? We need to stop supporting dirty industry with subsidies, and we need to start supporting clean renewable energy. That's the only way. Ideas like coal CO2 capture are not solutions. You cannot call something a solution if the original cause still remains. Again, use your brains. If you think our recession is bad, just wait until the massive economic storm that is destined in the future when we reach the limits of our unsustainability. We cannot have a sound economy without a sound environment. The only road to prosperity is a green economy and it is not Canada's economic action plan. Please check your investments and get all your money out of dirty industry. Stop supporting global warming and get healthy on every level.


Levi
said
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Copenhagen is nears. Main Stream Media outlets are pushing global warming hysteria once again, even though my lying eyes are telling me it hasn't warm in the past decade and might getting colder. It would be nice to see MSM shows their journalistic integrity by covering counter views on this subject (it is not hard to find many reputable and notable scientists who have different of opinions); this climate change coverage is so one sided bordering on propaganda. Thank god for the internet.


mike
said
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While looking at the responses to this article I was struck by the number of people who clearly haven't done ANY reading on the subject. What I see is people who have formed a HARD position without any understanding of basic science. The truth is that while the detailed science is very complex the basic ideas are something any one with a high school degree would find compelling . The Beatles said it best "THINK FOR YOURSELVES CAUSE I WON;T BE THERE FOR YOU.


Fiend, AB
said
0 0

And what of the companies which would benefit from legislation forcing companies and consumers to say, purchase carbon credits Mr. Hoggan? Wouldn't they also have a monetary stake in embellishing the story of CO2 emissions?Cause people to become fearful and people will give you pretty much anything so long as you promise to keep them and their families safe. It is the oldest trick in the book. Climate change has always been and will always be, making this the Best Scam Ever!


Bruce from Alberta
said
0 0

The issue in MAN made climate change is MAN. And I see nothing that combats the issue.Their approach to the issue is distributing wealth, taxing and selling stuff. Governments would make it more difficult to have kids, no tax breaks, no public funded education. Ya driving a hybrid might be better than a SUV but you know whats better than that? Not having the person to drive either. People always talk about China and it's pollution, but I bet it has reduced the most Carbon just by limiting people and not letting them bring another 40 million into the world.Soon as I see governments or interest groups tackling the REAL issue of MAN made global warming then I'll take them serious. Till then it's a money grab.


James
said
0 0

So people really think that Climate Change is 100% natural eh! An act of God? Then I guess God has decided that we have worn out our visit. Maybe it is because in the end we have been bad stewards. After all we cut down the forests, we wiped out entire species of animals, insects, fish, and plants. We polluted the air we breathe and the water we drink. We paved over entire forest to make cities, and filled in wetlands for suburbia. So God could come and wipe us all out for being opportunist and industrious? Or maybe just maybe the real reason things are changing is because we have destroyed our forests that once gave us oxygen. We used them to fuel the fires of industry, or the water we have made undrinkable and has killed off the aquatic life making massive dead zones where plant life used to be also giving us oxygen. Or maybe when we decided to pave massive areas of the earth turning them into giant ovens it actually had a negative impact on the environment that we live in. I could be wrong, I mean there is a chance that everything we have ever learned in school like for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction does not apply to the natural world around us, oops I mean the environment. So maybe we stop listening to talking heads and start using our own heads for a few minutes. You would not pump your exhaust into you living room because it would kill you, why would it be any different outside? Just stop and think for a minute it doesnt take a scientist to put 2 and 2 together it just takes a little rational thought.


Dodge
said
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I am not saying that we don't have a problem with climate change, however it is beeing so pushed to make people think that it will happen tomorrow. When I was a boy growing up we were told that an ice age was coming soon, now we are told that the world is getting warmer. I have one question for all thses global warming nuts. Has this not happened before, it is not true that Alberta was tropical a long time ago. Climates change and there is nothing that we humans can do about it. I feel these people are using this as an excuse because they don't really know what is causing it and not to seem stupid they need a reason


JB in Calgary
said
0 0

I'm a Chemist at the UofC and the fact of the matter is, we are changing the world by burning fossil fuel. People that claim they know 100% what the outcome is going to be are off their rockers. But the point is we are doing something to the atmosphere and we don't know for sure what is going to happen. It could be bad, it could be good. But those who say nothing is going to happen are just as bad as those who say the world is going to end. Something will happen. Because of such a high uncertainty we need to treat the planet as if we weren't here. You can't state that because there was life 140 million years ago everything is going to be just fine. Microbes at the bottom of the ocean doesn't mean all the land based animals survived. We are releasing many tons of toxins in the atmosphere that we don't hear about, solely because we don't know what they do. 25% of the CO2 we release into the atmosphere....we have no idea where its going.Bottom line we do need to cut back on the levels of toxins we spew into the atmosphere. Le Chatelier's Principle states that if you add reactant or product to a reaction the reaction will shift in the opposite direction (fact). Right now we are adding millions of tons of CO2 and other toxins into a reaction that we don't know what will happen when the reaction finally has a noticable shift. This is pure chemistry people. I would like to draw your attention to the CFC problem we had 20 years ago. And look what it's outcome was. Wake up People.


Kelly O
said
0 0

Man does have a role in "climate change" but not to the extent that some are trying to make us believe. Our star is roughly halfway through its life and as a star gets older it gets WARMER. As it burns hydrogen and turns it into helium the star has to get hotter until it reaches a point where the helium ignites. There is nothing that we can do about that unless somebody figures out a way to replace the suns hydrogen. Eventually the sun will turn into a red giant and turn the Earth into a charcoal briquette. I guess the experts will say that its our fault. Our climate is dictated by what the sun does as it goes through cycles and its location in space. As we get closer to the galactic equator (which the solar system is going to cross in 2012) it gets warmer. We are going to cross an intense energy zone and oncewe pass that the Earth will start to cool a bit. The Sun is the biggest catalyst in everything and we cant change that!!!


david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
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Thank you Donna Laframboise!! Until today I have never heard of this Hoggan guy.But my spider senses were tingling when I read the article,, my gut KNEW the guy could not be trusted. I'm glad there are people like you out there who are willing to do the research and expose the truth for people like me. My last comment was a little iffy and based on my past knowledge and instinct, thank you again Donna!!!As an aside,, I'm quite pleased to see so many ordinary people joining in this debate. Too often we go along with the "experts" to our own detriment. That said I must tell you all that I farm organically and TOTALLY agree with a few comments about polution in our environment is a very real and serious issue and should NOT be confused with the global warming/climate change scam... My opinion counts just as much as Al Gore or David Suzuki's... but they have a little more money than I do.....


Dave in Newington,Ontario
said
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No matter what side of this argument you side with one thing is absolutely certain,it is going to cost the average working grunt HUGE money......and that money will be going out of the working stiffs pocket and into the well lined pockets of the Government and big corporations....Why should these people spend a penny to research this problem and come to a viable solution to solve it?The easiest and most profitable way is just to tax the hell out of home heating oil,gasoline and diesel fuel as well as increase prices to the point that the average working man will be absolutely crippled by the cost...Of course, electricity will go up proportionatly, along with natural gas, and laws will be passed to ban using wood to heat your home (we need those trees,unless of course,the US wants them for home building!)Effects would be instant and easily justified...The average workers home would have the thermostat set at around 6c...Nobody would drive anywhere for a vacation or pleasure.....Airfares would have a 300% fuel surcharge,increasing profits accordingly.....Line-ups to buy fuel miser cars which will cost 5 times what they do now,auto industry helped.....Energy demands will plummet.....And finally the rich will laugh all the way to the bank telling us it's for our children's sake while living in air conditioned and comfortably warm mansions and driving limosines....And government coffers will swell like never before in history!Problem solved !


Michal Hillary
said
0 0

Someone put up Lord Monckton as a "climate change expert."He is not. He is a man with a journalism degree and a title, religiously conservative and an expert yachtsman. In short he has the money to have a microphone but nothing in his education makes him any type of expert on atmospheric science!!He is just the sort of voice the deniers put up as their experts and they have no science to back them up!!


Robert
said
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What about the hole in the ozone layer? Won't anyone think of the hole in the ozone layer?


Jay-TO
said
0 0

If this was the eighties and we had comment boards and the internet, the same bunch claiming climate change is a hoax would also be the same bunch who denied a link between smoking and lung cancer. Even the same PR group saying that cigarettes don't cause cancer in the US is also involved in climate change denial propaganda machine. To make it worse politicians are part of the disinformation campaign. Our government has had a climate change plan for each of its environment ministers. The current one has been overseas ruing our reputation and causing people to leave the talks altogether because of games. Its real, I have been working to implement climate change plans for the last 3 years. Seems to be a situation where the uneducated can not be brought up to speed mainly because its way over the heads to understand. Conservative politicians globally have been taking advantage of that little tidbit of info.


annie
said
0 0

I prefer my religion (global warming) to be free choice, not something the powers that be force on me. If I wanted that, there are countries in the world I could surely move to.


Bruce
said
0 0

Hello, This Guy is SELLING a book. Of course he has an opinion it sells more books.


Rose
said
0 0

I have been reading any thing I can find on climate change. What I have found is that we should be going into a new ice age. but before that happens it will get warmer first. then drop in tempeture. Yes I do believe that man has done damage to the earth. If man has damaged earth we should be able to reverse this if we all work together.


Jack1059
said
0 0

I know very little about climate change and the models and equations used to predict it. Neither do you. So what does a smart person do? They look at the science. Having a hard time with who's who in the scientific zoo? Who to believe? Okay, on the yes side, there's over 2500 scientists, and every major scientific organization in just about every country on the planet, who write, peer review and produce the IPCC report on the issue. They're now up to report number 5, which has not changed the basic answer that YES there is climate change, YES it's manmade. On the no side we have what 50 (and I'm being generous here) scientists saying no it's either not happening or it's not manmade. If you're still having a hard time believing that then there's no way anyone is going to convince you. Logic and facts just won't win over your paranoia about government / the UN / some shadowy conspiracy bent on spending your hard earned tax dollars / the illuminati / whatever. And no I'm not entering into a debate on the details of the reports or your paranoid theories with any of you. That's as useful and enlightening as 2 drunks in a pub arguing nuclear physics. Please look at your arguments logically before you put out that you still believe smoking doesn't cause cancer cause the Marlboro scientists say it doesn't.

Dodge
said
0 0

CatherineDid you read in the newspapers recently that there are approx 15 volcanoes under the Artic ice that have been erupting for the last 15 years, bet you would not see any oif that in this climate change nonsense, that would debunk their whole Aritc theory. Climates change and man is powerless to do anything about it, it will in time change back, but we as human beings have to make the necessary adjustments


Mike
said
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It is sad to say, but this Hoggan guy has a point. Groups hire scientist to find proof to make their beliefs real. However, that is the pot calling the kettle black. All scientists get their money from somewhere, whether it be industry or government. Scientists hired by government could be eqaully accussed of questionable results in order to gain more grants or legitimacey for their research. Sometimes the more sensational the more money, or fame these scientists get. My point of view after ready many books on both sides of this issue are that climate change is indeed occuring, however, the cause seems to be a variety of issues, including man, and cyclical climatic change. I encourage everyone to read both sides of the issue instead of being ignorant and only follow one side of the story.


Jennifer Smith - Milton
said
0 0

"Why doesn't CTV have Lord Monkton from the UK on their show. He is a renowned climatologist..."And I'm the Queen of England. In fact, Lord Monckton is a business consultant with a diploma in journalism and absolutely NO education or experience in climatology or any other branch of science. Which pretty much puts him in the same league as every other climate change denier.


ouifyg
said
0 0

Well since we don't yet completely understand how the world works I think we should just continue to pollute as much as we want. Only after science has examined every last detail should we risk spending any money on fixing this problem. If there is no global warming then there no point in cutting back this harmless pollution we spew into the air day after day. The smog hanging over our cities is just a beautiful part of the natural landscape. And after all, we need to burn more oil so Alberta and the oil companies can be rich again


The Man
said
0 0

First it was global cooling, now it's global warming, I wish these people would make up their minds about whether mankind will freeze to death or melt.


A. Bica
said
0 0

I'm no scientist but when you look at Gore's statistical analysis based entirely on accurate numbers to be found anywhere you look, I have to believe that we are experiencing climate changes of a very negative, threatening, degree. I'm less concerned about whether they are man made or otherwise but more concerned about what we can do to stop and correct the effects. I also believe that much in the same manner as we have seen major changes to our world as a result of the internet evolution where new industries have emerged rendering some old industries obsolete, causing significant job losses while at the same time creating new jobs, that we can see a similar shift if we embrace efforts to fight global warming. Simply put, we can't tolerate losing our planet to global warming to save obsolete or harmful industries and some jobs when they can be replaced with new ones and the people retrained. That's what progress is. Adapting to change, new technologies and going forward. We all know that you can't stifle progress so why are we trying to?


Rick M from Saskatoon
said
0 0

david sawkiw said: "My opinion counts just as much as Al Gore or David Suzuki's... but they have a little more money than I do....."This is exactly what is wrong with this 'discussion.' Not everyone's opinion counts the same when it comes to determining global issues especially when some are experts in analyzing scientific research (ie] David Suzuki). I am sorry David Sawkiw but I will be putting more weight on Suzuki's opinion than yours and it is not because he has more money. It is because he has more relevant qualifications.


charlie
said
0 0

I would very much like to see ALL organizations involved in this debate declare the sources of their funding and their many (inter)connections and links, including tax free or non-profit status of their organizations. Non-profits and charities are precluded (at least in Canada) from engaging in political action - and is "climate change" still some form of science or has it become a (tax supported) political issue? Just like in the Nixon scandal, the message still holds true - "follow the money"! I would also be interested in how much money governments have put out to studies of "climate change" where the benefits went to supporters of the theory v. how much went out to questionners of the theory. Climate change has become almost a religion in many cases with deniers branded essentially as heretics - and ridiculed and shouted down. Until we have scientific PROOF of what is happening, rather than theories, even from otherwise "eminent" scientists, the result is essentially junk science. We should remember that one of the hallmarks of science is repeatable, quantifiable results. I still remember the large group of scientists telling us that North America was going to be over-run with killer bees from the south and we had best take action now - oh, and give us huge amounts of public money to "study" the problem. Then there was West Nile Virus that was going to take a tragically large toll of human life; then SARS - all with pleas for money to "study" the situation. I must have missed the devistation caused by those imminent disasters. Scientists are just as human as the rest of us - and like to eat too, whether by their own hand or the public dole. But, then, perhaps I am being too cynical.


william chisholm
said
0 0

Why are the climate change advocates so affraid of a public debate based on scientific facts instead of defending Al Gores's fiction ?The answer is easy. Scientific facts do not support the argument in favour of man made global warming.


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