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Proposed B.C. homeless law has critics worried

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Canada AM: David Eby, BCCLA exec director
The B.C. Civil Liberties Association is very concerned about the timing and implementation of the legislation and fear it may put the homeless in greater risk.
CTV National News: Rob Brown on the controversial plan
If passed, a new proposal would allow police in B.C. to force street people into shelters during extreme weather. Officials say it's meant to help the homeless. Critics argue it's nothing more than an attempt to hide an unsightly problem before the world pays a visit for the 2010 Winter Olympics.
CTV British Columbia: Correspondents on the proposal
Civil rights watchdogs say planned legislation to force people into homeless shelters is little more than a veiled attempt to clean up Vancouver streets before the 2010 Olympic Games.

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Well done B.C.! knowing that there are many homeless that dont have the emotional and/or mental tools to take care of themselves, I applaud the move.

Steph.

Proposed B.C. homeless law has critics worried

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Proposed B.C. homeless law has critics worried

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Sep. 21 2009 10:16 PM ET

A proposed law that would give the B.C. government the power to force people into homeless shelters has civil liberty activists crying foul.

According to government documents leaked to the BC Civil Liberties Association, the proposed legislation would allow authorities to make a declaration of extreme weather, which would then allow police to force a homeless person into a shelter.

B.C. Housing Minister Rich Coleman has acknowledged the legislation is in the works for the fall, but says it has nothing to do with the 2010 Winter Olympics in February -- a point of dispute with the civil liberty group.

Tom Sandborn, who serves on the board of directors for the BC Civil Liberties Association, says the documents do not directly refer to the Olympics, but "clearly that's the context almost every decision is being taken (under) right now."

"I think this is more about saving face for the government than saving lives on the street," he told CTV.ca Monday.

Sandborn said the documents were recently leaked to his office by someone who is well connected in the provincial government.

"We know they're authentic," Sandborn said.

One of the memos says that after a local declaration of extreme weather is made, notices would be given to a homeless person and a police officer would encourage those on the street to seek shelter.

If the homeless person refuses, the officer would be able to "use force."

"As a last resort, the individual may be taken to police cells, either voluntarily or involuntarily," the memo concludes.

Sandborn, who's not a lawyer, said the proposed law may be vulnerable to being challenged in court under several sections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

"The vast majority of people who are homeless and on the street don't have any objection to getting warm and dry," he said. But a small minority of homeless adults who are not subject to the Mental Health Act may choose not to go to shelters for a variety of reasons.

"The fact that a person is homeless doesn't mean that they stop being a Canadian citizen or stop being protected by the Charter of Rights."

Sandborn said the proposed law could prompt some homeless people to hide, potentially endangering their safety.

"They would go farther into the park, farther into the alleys, and we would find out about them when their corpses were found later on," he said.

Coleman said the government initially considered the legislation after a Vancouver woman died last winter after refusing to be taken to a shelter. She perished when she started a fire to keep warm.

Comments are now closed for this story

Michael
said
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If the people from the civil liberties association are so worried about their freedom, let them live for free in their backyards.


Steph.
said
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Well done B.C.! knowing that there are many homeless that dont have the emotional and/or mental tools to take care of themselves, I applaud the move.


Lin-Z
said
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This is so typical! Damned if they do and Damned if they don't! The public cries in outrage when a homeless person passes away from exposure and such, yet when the government actually looks to help the situation, people still complain! Are there people out there who are telling me they enjoy seeing the homeless on their streets as they make their way home or to work? The same people screaming the charter of rights are those who turn a blind eye to the homeless, pretending they don't exist, rally and protest demanding something be done when one is in peril yet turn around and say leave them be when there is a solution. If the government did nothing they'd complain; the government is trying to do something to give them a warm place to stay and some food and they complain. These people are homeless, don't work and nine times out of ten, are addicts of some kind. A line has to be drawn somewhere. It isn't as though the government is proposing exterminating them.

Heaven forbid they try to give them shelter and food...I can see how that infringes on their human rights! *insert eye roll here*


Bradley Stephens
said
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I think this is absolutely great. Just the fact that a homeless person does not want to seek shelter or accept help in harsh weather is enough to question thier sanity. I don't care if the Olympics are the reason either. If this starts out something that even saves one life in the future so be it. Everything has to start somewhere. The civil liberties union should mind their own business and they more than anyone should know that the charter can be ignored when it is better for the whole.


Tim Bit
said
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At this rate won't we all qualify as homeless?
Maybe this is a moot point!


Bill in BC
said
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Do nothing - activists scream;
Do something - activists scream.

Maybe part of the problem IS the activists?


James Williams
said
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If governments can provide homes for refugees and asylum seekers, then why can't they look after their own homeless.

Put your own homeless on the refugee gravy train for a change.

Charity begins at home!


C. Abel
said
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I wish they would do the same in Ottawa. The "shelter" should only be a temporary accommodation = later low cost housing must be found for all of those people.
There was a time nobody was living in the streets, why now??


Jeff Parker
said
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This is a great idea. Hopefully it gets some of these crazies out of the cold weather and into somewhere they won't die. Yeah everybody has rights, but if you are putting your life at risk the police should always have the right to help.

Great Plan!


Ryan from Calgary
said
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Regardless of the spirit in which the law is passed, isn't the net result a good one? Why oppose it if it saves lives in the end?

Saving lives by saving face. Kinda has a nice ring to it.


Rose
said
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Hmmm....so whats next!

I sure didn't see anyone being taken into air conditioned buildings when we had extreme heat! Someone died out in those elements too!
I'm thinking this will be enforced for a few specific weeks this winter and then never again!!

And just for the record... I am not anti-Olympics.


Craig in Burnaby
said
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Wanna make a bet that this legislation is used during the olympics?


Tim
said
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This is long overdue. Finally a step in the right direction. Hopefully the bleeding hearts who advocate people living in public parks and on the street won't be able to derail this. Their are many homeless shelters in the province. USE THEM!


Metro
said
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Olympic PR move.

Never mind that the Olympics will create an increasing number of homeless people in the first place.

Never mind that money is being scraped from every corner (including reducing access to help for the poor) to fund this sham.

As long as they can get 'em off the streets and out of sight of the world's tourism bureaus the BC Conser--I mean "Liberals" are happy.

Otherwise, why now? People have been dying in the streets for all of the fifteen years we've been saddled with these "pain-first-pay-later" clowns.



canuck38
said
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Whatever happened to "vagrancy" laws.
Oh well,never mind,just throw another million $$ into the pot to solve the problem.


syko
said
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"As a last resort, the individual may be taken to police cells, either voluntarily or involuntarily,"

This is not about the Olympics...yeah right.Why not round them up and send them to re-education camps. Or we could give them all official Olympic clothing that way if the world sees them sleeping on the street they will at least look stylish.


Allan (Vancouver)
said
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I thought one of the problems was that there weren't enough shelters for people to go to. Another problem was that people didn't have money to go to shelters. How can you enforce legislation like this? How can you force people into shelters that aren't there? If they are there and cost money, does that mean that the authorities will cover the cost of the room for the night? What about the animals that a lot of homeless have with them on the street? This just doesn't seem to make sense.


P.A.
said
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Shelters can be as bad as being on the street in some ways. Lice, bedbugs, abuse by others there, drugies, theft. If they are going to force people into shelters, they should also make the shelters a safe haven.


Lucky in N.S.
said
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It just might save someone from freezing to death. That's what responsible Canadians do!


GP
said
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I absolutely agree that we need to provide more to our homeless problem. I do know however many will not go to shelters because they do not want to be preyed upon by some who go there. This is why it’s a choice.

I also absolutely disagree with giving the government in BC, who has deceived the public before, the right to incarcerate someone because of the weather. I think we are ALL better off waiting till someone breaks the law and then prove it in a court of law, before we throw anyone in the digger with everything that goes on there.

I’m sure the police have better things to do as well.


Sick of the Pig Sty
said
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Good! I hope they do round them all up and send them off. If vagrancy is non-constitutional, then I want the Constitution changed.


Greg in Cambridge
said
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Now if they could just legislate those tax payer funded "drug injection sites" closed, it might be a nice place to visit.
You know I have to pay out of my own pocket for medical treatments and prescriptions and those drug addicts get a nice place to shoot up, for free.What's wrong with that picture?



Rose in Victoria
said
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This is one of the worst things I have read in a while. Politicians coming out and saying, they think it’s a good idea for the cop to use force, on our homeless for making a choice? we already have enough police brutality and now we’re going to tell them they are allowed to assault the homeless. This is insane.

If they don’t want to go then (“use force”) tazer them?

This is very sick.


M. Cameron
said
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These "critics" are only now concerned because the homeless problem is now their problem.


Question Guy
said
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Well, we are all busy criticizing the proposed legislation, but how about all you guys propose your own alternative solution to this problem. Everyone is good at criticizing, but can you do something about it? That's my challenge to you.


junebug
said
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Most of the homeless are not by choice & choose to sleep on the streets as a source of being independent. My brother chose that way of life after he fell of the band wagon due to alcohol addiction. He wouldn't accept a roof over his head from no one. By forcing the homeless into a shelter is not the answer,these people need counseling & medical help. I'm sure that the Liberals want to save face for the Olympics.

mirth
said
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I agree with Syko's comment.

This is an irresponsible move by the BC govt, almost as bad as the HST. I believe the Campbell government fears the impending organization of the homeless to demonstrate during Olympic games.


Paul Graham, Saskatoon
said
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To offer help to those who need it, even to be aggressively helpful is one thing, but to legislate forced removal is not to be taken lightly. It is not representative of a just and fair democratic society and unworthy of those who simply complain about "activists".

Unfortunately, any good will that may be behind this legislation is far too suspiciously close to the Olympics and "spin control" to be of value. Typical neo-liberal thinking here.


Connie
said
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I wonder how the police feel about having this added to their job description? You have people being shot in restaurants, gang violence at an all-time high, babies being stabbed by parents, and having their heads bashed on sidewalks, fathers murdering their (ex)-wives and killing all their kids...now they have to babysit the homeless too.


Nathan
said
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And not having no home gives others the right to tell you where to go and when? Come on, people can choose for themselves. This dehumanizes anyone who happens to be homeless, and is essentially forcible confinement for no legitimate reason. Free choice ends when it gets cold? This is entirely about image.


Flabbergasted
said
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I’m amazed by all the comments in favour of human rights violations. What would you think if a cop was going to be able to tell you where to go and “use force” if you do not comply? You don’t need to do anything wrong, to get him to approach you, just be there. And you are thrown in jail. For how long, depends on the weather. (This is the first time I could use that term for a fact) How would you like this? If we allow this mistreatment of homeless people what makes you think you wont qualify for a law like this one later on?

Why doesn’t the BC government do something to help the homeless not jail them?

cool_like_fresh
said
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Obviously this is just to make the city look good during the Olympics, they did the same type of thing during the PanAm games in Winnipeg. I remember seeing a guy get arrested for busking, which I had NEVER seen happen before.

Anyway, that being said, I don't disagree with it either way. Even if it's under the guise of "we're just here to help," when they're just trying to improve the city's image, it still is a very justifiable measure that could save lives.

Hooray for the word-smiths!

Is There Anything People Won't Argue About?
said
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Gheez! Who cares if the government is trying to save face? Who can seriously argue against forcing a homeless person into shelter and safety on an extremely cold night for whatever reason? What is the difference if they stay out there and freeze to death or if they hide from the police and stay out there and freeze to death?


D. B.
said
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Obviously we have not had the means to give people what they cannot give themselves ... a safe secure environment. The right to refuse treatment has been both a blessing and a curse because often when an individual becomes well on medication they feel they no longer need the help and refuse to take their medication and become more resistive to the help offered. It is a difficult dilema to both honor their independence yet recognize when their independence becomes toxic to their lifestyle and choices.


Lorne
said
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Its about time. There should not be "ANY" people living on the streets. We are a rich nation. We need to see to the welfare of the less fortunate among us.


Mike Owen
said
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How would you feel if one day you were told that due to extreme pollution, you were not allowed to drive to work in the morning? While it may be hard for some of you to understand, if you start taking liberties away from the downtrodden and less fortunate, your rights can easily be next.


sitka
said
0 0

A comfortable private bed, a meal, and a shower should be available to every Canadian who can't provide it for themselves between the hours of 10 pm and 7 am. That is important. Until that is done..

Long firearm reregistration is NOT important.
Arts funding in NOT important.
Refugee cases are NOT important and should not be considered.
Boater operator cards are NOT important.
Double EI benefits for twins is NOT important.
etc. etc.

Every morning ... I hear of another 5 "things" that someone claims is important. That isn't true, it is an opinion where a minority of the population or beauracracy champions a cause.

So one more time what is IMPORTANT.

A comfortable private bed, a meal, and a shower should be available to every Canadian who can't provide it for themselves between the hours of 10 pm and 7 am.

The proposal discussed in this artical is evidence of our lack of focus and performance on the correct task at hand. Once we as Canadians can provide the barest essential to our citizens, then we can move on to more ancillary concerns. It will make us all good, I promise.



Robert Brise
said
0 0

Make no bones about it Its all about the start of a Police state and the abolishment of Human & Civil Rights.

Fight this every way you can even if it leads to civil disobedience!!!
I mean "homeless people " are they going to take away your home?


halifaxguy
said
0 0

Well I guess we should just let them freeze, better free and dead then be forced into a warm dry place for their own safety.


PBW
said
0 0

Now, if only such a law were enacted where it gets COLD in winter - eg Winnipeg. But then, a Winnipegger knows to take shelter in extreme weather, homeless or otherwise.... btw, what constitutes "extreme weather in the Vancouver area?

On a more serious note, why does the Civil Liberties Union go to all these lengths to oppose sensible legislation? There are far more important things to deal with; for example, section 13 of the Canada Human Rights Code? The fact that truth is not a defence at Human Rights tribunals? That there is no due process at Human Rights Tribunals?

Or maybe they will do anything to justify their existence and salaries.




sam
said
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its not a matter of activism, its a matter of rights. it is their right as a canadian citizen to choose where they rest their head. Most homeless may choose to go the a shelter for but for some they choose not to for many reasons. what ever their reasons might be fear or just plain stuborness its still their right. The question i would be asking is do they house enough beds for all their homeless or do they plan to cramp everyone in? Where do they intend to house everyone? And what happens to all those extra beds and staff that they will require after the olypics are over? will they suddenly dissappear do to budget cutbacks. Everyone knows how well we take care of our homeless. We as a country provide homes, jobs and cash to anyone who steps off a plane or boat yet homeless people cant get welfare till they have a home. fixing our homeless situation requires an entire overhawl of federal, provincial and municipal laws, by laws and budgets not arresting someone for not commiting a crime. I personaly think police officers have more imortant things to do but im not holding my breath.


boo huew
said
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Let me guess... if the forecast is for drizzle, it will be declared a weather emergency. Right?


Mark Smith (Montreal, PQ)
said
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I can see why some activists might get upset by this move. This is more of a, pushing the dirt under the rug solution when it comes to the more common issues that cause homelessnessT. his blatantly ignores those issues with a quickfix solution.

Also, this can actually excaberate the problem because of people who choose to be homeless.

There are a lot of people who WANT to be homeless, because they enjoy being completely severed from the anonymous system that governs our lives. They don't worry about anything remotely buearaucratic, about money, about privacy, nothing at all. But, the fact of the matter is, these same people are visiting soup kitchens and shelters and choosing to reap the rewards of our hard spent tax dollars. Forcing them into shelters that I pay for?

Look, a lot homeless folk, they are on the street because of consequence, not choice. I'm glad my tax money is being used to help out those people, but please, don't waste that money on people who want to be in the position their in. They CHOSE that way of life.

So this is why I don't agree with what BC is doing. It'll place an unnecessary burden on the province, diverting valuable resources that could be used to solve the actual issues that create homelessness.


Mr. Greer
said
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Homelessness and eventually poverty are soon to both be crimes.


Shelters are for losers
said
0 0

I was homeless about 12 years ago and decided not to use a shelter because of previous bad experiences.
I lived outside for about 18 months but by staying away from the losers and bullies in the shelters was able to experience some happiness and independence.
My thinking improved and I learned to read the French language. I then spent 2 years in a technical college where I graduated with honours.
Things just keep getting better and better. The recession hasn't had an impact on me at all.


Carl
said
0 0

I lived in BC and had to listen to the nonsence the BCCLA would go on with regularly. They are anarchists at best, hippies at worst. I have heard their dumb arguments against police, goverment, the drug laws. They need a law to get rid of them. I agree with the poster who said the BCCLA members should let the homeless camp out in their yards, but that would mean being involved directly and not complaining tothe goverment.


Crescent Roll
said
0 0

Gotta hand it to the people at the BCCLA. This is a made up story about nothing, completely fabricated by the BCCLA to drum up media attention and $$$$ donations. The government denies it so they'll claim it's a conspiracy on their website.


Sparky in Kitchener
said
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"If the homeless person refuses, the officer would be able to "use force."

Damn,now we can take 'em in at gunpoint!

I guess it's a bigger crime to be homeless than it is to be a child molester!

Ain't Canada great?


Mark Skid
said
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"As a last resort, the individual may be taken to police cells, either voluntarily or involuntarily," the memo concludes.

Whoa there Tiger! Let's think that one through before we make foolish statement like that!


Bornagain
said
0 0

I have a solution...Civil Liberties Assoc.members and all those self-righteous people who criticize the government for offering help should take home one homeless person every night give him supper,warm shower,a clean bed and release him in the morning.And they should do this till spring.Faith without work is nothing.




allan
said
0 0

--What is so wrong trying to get people off the streets into a hostel or a jail cell

--And what is wrong with getting people off the streets during the olympics? Do we want to look like a 3rd world country just to satisfy some left-wing wackos like civil liberties?


Gary
said
0 0

Good luck with that one.

I have tried to help some people but they couldn't care less. They are happy living on the street, they don't want to work. They want everything for free.

I say give them the option of some place to stay. Yes I have to work to pay for them. But at least I don't have to live with the horror that someone died outside because they had no place to sleep


Doug
said
0 0

I was homeless. At that time, the only thing worse than being homeless was the shame of being discovered. Being forced to do anything against your will strips away a level of dignity. When you are homeless, you don't have much dignity to spare.


michael from ottawa
said
0 0


Here we go again.

Now let me get this straight....the government wants to get a person OFF the street, give them warmth and shelter and a place that is safe....and these " Libertarions" are opposed to it??????!!!!! .and all of this at taxpayers' expense, correct me if I am wrong??!!

What planet do I/WE live on??!!

Tell you what....luckily i am not in charge or they would all be arrested for vagrancy and disturbing the peace and whatever else I could think of to get them OFF the streets!!!!

Funny thing.....if the government didn't step in to help and offer this solution they would be seen as terrible, meanspirited people. Sometimes, and most often in this society you just cannot win!!


Samual
said
0 0

Well done liberals!


Jay
said
0 0

So if I dont feel like living in a house, some of you think that you should be able to force me into some sort of jail cell or shelter?

Not everyone on the streets is mentally ill. Some people just dont feel like doing the 9-5 stepford trip.

Mind your own business; how many homeless people cry out when one of them freezes to death? Probably none of them. Freezing people is just too unsettling for us warm cozy folks in our big houses.


Hindusan from Ontario
said
0 0

Though I don't understand why a homeless person would refuse to go into the warmth of a homeless shelter, I think the liberties association has a point when they say that they can't force them into a shelter. If they want to stay on the street, let them. The only time I think we should force them in is if they are going to harm others by staying outside.


CCEdmonton
said
0 0

Oh poor homeless people being forced into safe shelter during extreme weather boo hoo, GET OVER IT! Another reason liberals dont run this country


Jo
said
0 0

All cities should be taking care of homeless people. These people are living on the streets because they are unable to pay rent. Full-time jobs are hard to find and part-time jobs do not make life affordable for rent and food. They choose food and a park bench or grate. Refugees get more respect than a Canadian down on his/her luck. Governments need to get involved and offer programs etc. Loss of jobs = sleeping on the streets. Don't criticize the homeless as you don't know their story. Buy them a coffee. Vancouver, way to go. All cities should follow your in steps. Civil Liberty activists get a grip. This move could be saving a life.


J in TO
said
0 0

How do you help someone who doesn't want help? You either help them anyway or you don't help them. My choice: help them -- get them off the street against their will because it's their own will that's destroying them.


Sam C
said
0 0

"Whatever happened to "vagrancy" laws."

Yeah, arresting people and throwing them in jail -- or giving them a fine -- because they are homeless: THAT's the answer! *rolls eyes*



smokycat
said
0 0

Of course this is all about the Games. We can't have the world seeing these embarassing people on the streets of Vancouver. Strange, isn't it....that money can't be found to really help these people and get them into decent accommodation, and give job training, councelling...etc to those who will take it. BUT as soon as someonw says "GAMES" or "SPORTS" they can find hundreds of millions of dollars..
Frankly, it makes me sick....!
Yes, I am very anti-games and think all that money could be better spent helping our own Canadian citizens who need it..


James in Vernon
said
0 0

This was a free country the last time I checked. If the homeless don't want to go into a shelter, then it's their choice. But to be forced to do what they don't want, reeks of dictatorship. Didn't we fight two world wars to keep people free, free to make their choice? Now, granted, their lives are important as everyones' is, equally. Let's build some low income housing so the homeless won't be homeless. But wait, we just wasted millions of dollars on the Olympics instead of putting where it should have gone. I like the Olympics like anyone else, but to place it before peoples' well being, well, that's just plain stupid. The Olympics is only two weeks, peoples live are forever. Priorities people.


teresa
said
0 0

Thank you Lin-Z...your comments are so true... damned if you do damned if you don't....hooray for common sense.. it's about time... yikes


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