CTV News | Air France Flight 447 fell intact into sea

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Air France Flight 447 fell intact into sea

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CTV News: Tom Kennedy on a nightmarish plunge
CTV News Channel: Marc-Antoine Plourde, commercial airline pilot on what caused the crash
CTV News Channel: Vaughn Cordle, former commercial airline pilot, on what could have caused the crash
CTV News Channel: William Voss, Flight Safety Foundation, on the preliminary report into the Air France crash
CTV News Channel: Mark Miller, aviation expert, on the details revealed by investigators

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. Jul. 2 2009 5:42 PM ET

Officials say the Air France jet that crashed one month ago did not break up in the air but rather plunged vertically at a very high speed into the Atlantic Ocean.

Alain Bouillard, with the French accident investigation agency BEA, said the plane "seems to have hit the surface of the water on its flight trajectory with a strong vertical acceleration."

He added that investigators have found "neither traces of fire nor traces of explosives."

Bouillard also said life vests found among the wreckage were not inflated. He said that suggests that the passengers were not prepared for a crash landing in the water.

"Today we are very far from establishing the causes of the accident," Bouillard told reporters at a press conference in Paris Thursday.

The Airbus A330-200 plane was on its way from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil to Paris when it vanished over the ocean with 228 people on board.

In total, Bouillard said 51 bodies have been recovered, along with 600 elements of the plane.

However, search teams have been unable to locate the plane's black boxes, which would help investigators better understand what happened.

Bouillard said the search for the boxes will continue for another 10 days, even though the signals they emit are likely to have already faded out.

Bouillard did say speed sensors, called Pitot tubes, were a factor in the crash but were not the cause.

One of the automatic messages sent out by the plane indicates it was receiving incorrect speed information from its external monitoring instruments.

Experts say those external instruments may have iced over and the wrong information could have destabilized the plane's control systems.

All of the passengers on the plane were killed in the crash.

With files from The Associated Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Michael from Toronto
said
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This is an interesting conclusion. It would seem to explain the sightings by pilots from other aircraft.

However, it would also contradict the theories put forth based on the condition of the bodies and it would pose questions regarding why the body of the chief pilot has been found. Assuming a vertical plunge, there should be nothing recognizable left of the cockpit crew unless the pilot was not in the cockpit at time of impact.


Lorne
said
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I wonder why they have come to this conclusion, after many weeks of hearing them report that they felt certain it broke up in mid-flight?

Hard to believe we can fly satellites into comets but we can't find these data recorders... Hopefully they'll get those soon and we can start solving the mystery.


Roger Hammer
said
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Could this be a repeat of Egyptair flight 990, a scheduled international flight from New York to Cairo, when it crashed in the Atlantic Ocean south of Nantucket Island, Massachusetts?


dwayne-ottawa
said
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and they know this how? cause lifejackets were not inflated? seems like a quick answer with no real proof of what really happened.


DM in NB
said
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And now the blame game starts. Blame the pilot, since he's dead and can't defend himself -- it deflects blame and lawsuits away from Air France.

Dumb.

This statement doesn't make sense; as a water-impact at high speed would cause multiple fractures to the bodies that are found intact, which would be few. But the bodies recovered were intact and had few fractures (which suggests they fell OUTSIDE the plane, in free-fall).

Lies starting already. Don't buy into this story, people.


Mrs. Ogga
said
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Please tell me that no one felt anything. It's everyone's nightmare about flying. Bless them all.


Paul D.
said
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What a nightmare. Not sure if the life vests would have done any good. Horrible, horrible tragedy.


John
said
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When a plane crashes into land or water at high speed all you are really left with are small pieces of the plane and human remains ( Swiss Air off coast of Nova Scotia), or any other flight for that matter. You might have one complete body , but never have dozens been found, unless the plane broke apart before hitting the water. Just last week they said the plane broke apart midair , now it crashed intact? Someone's not telling the truth unless there is a defect with the plane the manufactures don't want people to know about.


charles
said
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Well I will give an interesting idea
-- Pilots tell passengers to fasten their seatbealts ( rough storm), Pilot tubes then iceover, plane is still on autopilot , pilots ignore instruments and rely on autopilot, plano begins to stall and autopilot disengages violently, pilots loose control. Plane goes into water at an angle NOT vertical thats is why they have picked up some wing parts and tail section and found one of the pilots.. Now since passengers where fastened in they most likely all drowned, some bodies being throw up by pressure..

Sad accident, big loss of lives


Kathy
said
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Accidents such as this, make it even more apparent to me what a difficult thing Sully Sullenberg did to land a plane on the Hudson. My prayers are with the families.


JH
said
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I wonder why in this high tech age they can't seem to find a way to transmit the flight data to a remote computer for storage. If that could happen, then they wouldn't need to find the black boxes.


Eileen25
said
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Wasn't there a report from two fishing boats that they saw a bright flash in the sky around the time the plane came down? How is this information explained?


Ted
said
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I smell a bomb!


Jeffery
said
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wether the airplane broke up or not before it hit the surface of the water is not important for us compared to the huge life losses. Trying to find the cause of the crash is to help us avoid the similar accident happening again. God bless all of the victims.


Lorne answering his earlier question
said
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Ah, it seems the recovered wreckage is pancaked evenly from bottom to top, indicating the plane struck the water flat, level and at high speed. I'm not an NTSB investigator, but as a pilot I'm thinking there's only one way for that to have happened: A stall induced flat spin.

If the pilot lost speed data (and everything else due to electrical failure) from faulty pitot sensors, he may have unintentionally reduced power to the point of a stall. This is easy to do when you don't know your speed, nor have a working horizon indicator, nor any light from the ground to tell you up from down, then add a bad storm bouncing you around. An emergency RAT (ram air turbine-a pop out spinner that generates electrical power from the wind, located at the bottom of the wing root) would have normally given power to essential instruments, but not in a flat spin, no wind to turn it.

So, my semi-educated guess is pitot failure induced faulty speed data caused the pilot to reduce power to the point of an unrecoverable flat spin. In a spin like that, when the engines stop turning, there's no power, as the plane needs engines for electricity. The RAM turbine that would normally deploy also failed to produce power because of the flat spin, and there you have it.

Even in perfect weather, this can happen folks. A Boeing 757 went down killing all passengers in the Caribbean because of wasp nests in pitot sensors and a pilot induced stall at night. Same thing happened near Peru at night in another 757 over the ocean when crews forgot to remove tape over the pitots. He flew it into the ocean in controlled flight.


Dave, Ottawa
said
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During the preflight safety briefing, they specifically tell you NOT to inflate your life vest until you are safely out of the aircraft (assuming you survive the crash, of course).


Don't believe the media
said
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As an Aircraft Mechanic, there is no way that this plane hit the water in one piece (as some one stated Swiss Air 111) They are covering up something, and now we are changing parts on planes that are perfectly fine. Why is it so hard to admit that things just go wrong? If a bomb, then deal with it. If it really is a "mechanical" problem, then we will correct it. But aircraft can take a lot of lighting strikes and turbulence and keep flying, that is what they are made to do. Stop beating around the bush and tell us why this happened?


Dean
said
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Without the black boxes, how did anyone come to this conclusion?


Pam (Ont.)
said
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I remember seeing a commercial on TV that stated something like "accidents are problems waiting to happen". That is the answer to all this and the rest is cover up.


Doug BC
said
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WOW! Lots of aviaton experts on line. We should get them all down there to figure this out.
Is it a sign of the times that "we don't know EXACTLY what happened" is met with accusations of lying,a cover up,or stupidity. While they have "clues",the reality is that the investigation is on-going. We need to let them do their work,and not jump to any conclusions until ALL the information possible has been collected and analyzed.
Like everything in the world these days, if those seeking the truth withold information until all that can be learned is known,the public assumes there's a cover up going on. On the other hand,if they release information as every scrap of information sees the light of day, the public jumps to conclusions of their own.
That said, I do wonder why the data recorders couldn't be built to send signals out for a little longer. I am only GUESSING here, but it seems to me, that the logistics of having ALL data recorders,on ALL planes, ALL over the world, ALL of the time,transmitting ALL of their data to a remote location would be somewhat of a daunting task.

Perhaps not impossible though. I'd like to hear an INFORMED discussion on that topic.

The information we have now seems sketchy to me.I agree that inflated life jackets suggests they were expecting a water landing. It seems odd to me,that there were so many bodies intact if the tragedy occurred as suddenly and violently as is suggested.
To this amateur,the intact bodies suggest a less violent end,while the life jackets being uninflated suggests they were not preparing for a water landing.
Keep working. We need more information.


Steve in Ottawa
said
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Charles - it's a 'pitot' tube and not a 'pilot' tube.





Ron
said
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I don't know why Pitot tubes would be iced over as they are heated to keep ice from blocking the opening. I know As I have seen a cover that was left on one and burned right off.


King Malcolm
said
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It seems like airbus has a serious defect as most major plane crashes these days are mostly theirs.


Airbus in Trouble
said
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Another Airbus fell into the sea this week.
This time it was a A310.
Indian Ocean.

Something wrong with Airbus?


Ben - Calgary
said
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The sight of the vertical stabilizer floating virtually intact, and the claim that the airplane was accelerating intact when it plunged into the sea brings to mind American Airlines flight 587 in 2001 which lost it's vertical stabilizer in turbulence. One also wonders about the most recent accident also occurring in severe turbulence resulting in sudden loss of the aircraft. Is there something that we don't know about these composite parts?


Aircraft Tech
said
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Why is everyone jumping all over this and trying to stir up all these conspiracy theories. Just because at first the investigators said it "seems" like this happened or it "appears" that this happened doesn't mean it's their final conclusions. They're taking the info they have at the moment and basically giving the media some likelyhoods. Aircraft accident investigations are not like fender benders on the 401, it could take months maybe years to bring all their findings together an come up with the actual cause. Give the investigators a break and let them do their jobs.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said
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I COMPLETELY DISAGREE

About what, I'm not sure. I just enjoy posting an intelligent comment on a story for which FACTS remain elusive and worthless speculation is, evidently, rampant. It's fun to challenge a theory, or fabricate one of my own, when the "story" is weak and irrelevant to the truth. I can pretend to be an aviation expert specializing in commercial airline disasters.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to get my Star Trek costume together for the convention.


John
said
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Alain Bouillard knows that the inflight crew would be specific in telling the passengers to don vests but NOT inflate until after they had exited the aircraft. He is lying.


Mike Macdonald - Winnipeg
said
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Bouillard states that "life vests found among the wreckage were not inflated." which he thinks means "...that the passengers were not prepared for a crash landing in the water." What a ridiculous comment to make, especially from an investigator. You inflate your life jacket when you are out of the aircraft, and NEVER before as the bouyancy created by said life jacket would trap you inside, drowning you. Sheesh!


Ê.Ìatroskin
said
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If the plane came down into water at cruising speed, they would have not found any big fragments of the plane or full bodies of passengers. It would've been an explosion when the plane hits water. I don't believe French officials.


RVH
said
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Couldn't imagine a worser way to perish. Tragic


debbie
said
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We have the capability to hear and see astronauts on the moon; why can't the flight data and voice recordings be located somewhere other than the plane?


Narin, Montreal.
said
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If the assumption were true then it is much easier to find the black box because those heavy objects (back box, engines) would be not too far from each other as well as the piece of the tail. However, if the plan were broke apart in the air then it is much harder to find the black box since the already found tail (light object) could be so far away from the black box due to strong wind that pushed that piece of tail far away before plunging into the surface of the sea.


G. Gravelle, Ottawa, Ontario
said
0 0

People take a risk of dying every time they get on a plane, in a car, on a train, etc. We take it for granted that nothing will go wrong and that we'll reach our destination. Yet, there are no guarantees.


Wait until the documentary
said
0 0

I will just wait until some show like "Mayday" has the story in a few years from now.

You want a cover up. What about the Russian A300 that crashed in 1994 killing all onboard because the pilot let his 15 year old kid at the controls. He accidently disengaged the autopilot and put the plane into a tight turn. The centrifical force became so great that nobody could get the kid out of the seat and take control.


Wants the truth
said
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There is no way the plane was intact when it went into the water nose first. The pilot they recovered would not have been recognizable if this was the case. Something more to the truth than what's being explained here by Air France.


Tom from Halifax
said
0 0

If you remember the tragedy of Swiss Air 111 ( Sept 1998 ), it also fell with a strong verticle acceleration into the sea near Halifax. ALL human remains found there were only very small fragments. It states here " with a strong vertical acceleration." , yet as stated, identifiable bodies were found. This again suggests, people being OUTSIDE the aircraft, which contradicts a strong vertical acceleration and NO breakup before the crash. It's one or the other. Makes me wonder, was the captain on a break at that time ?




Peter D
said
0 0

I'm assuming this state of the art aircraft had pitot heat ? These icing up seems unlikely. What happened to the 160 km/h updrafts the aircraft flew into being considered a major factor? Could / would these have sent erronious readings to the flight computer ?


from Kitchener
said
0 0

Mrs. Ogga, you can be sure everyone was lucid and screaming as the plane plunged to the ground, in fact had the plane broken up you would be awake until you smacked the ocean.


No to Tinfoil
said
0 0

It's time for the KOOK conspiracy theorists with tinfoil on their heads to come out and make accusations.


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