CTV News | Canada's cash-for-clunkers plan: Do nothing at all

Canada's cash-for-clunkers plan: Do nothing at all

Better ideas for 'Cash for Clunkers'

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By: Jeremy Cato, Autos.CTV.ca

Date: Fri. Jun. 19 2009 7:08 AM ET

MUNICH, GERMANY — There are good ways to do cash-for-clunkers programs, and there are bad ways, and then there is Canada's way, which is to do essentially nothing at all.

Let's start with the bad. Here in Germany, the federal government has introduced a rich, no-strings-attached clunkers program that is costing taxpayers a fortune and threatens to undermine any recovery in the auto sector next year.

Under Berlin's rules, owners with cars at least nine years old get 2,500 euros (about $4,000) for turning in a wreck and buying a new car, regardless of its size or fuel efficiency. That cash comes on top of any sweetheart deal the buyer cuts with dealers and auto makers.

As you can imagine, it's been a huge, huge success. New car sales in Germany are up 40 per cent from a year ago and sales haven't been this good since 1991.

But it's costing a fortune. When this clunker program arrived in January, Berlin envisioned spending 1.5 billion euros to get 600,000 clunkers off the road.

But with an election around the corner, the government raised the budget to 5.0 billion euros for two million cars and extended the deadline through the end of 2009. Vote buying, perhaps?

Now, European manufacturers are worried about what will happen when Germany's clunker program expires. And there are the same worries in France, Britain and elsewhere, where clunker programs have triggered a rise in sales.

"The (cash-for-clunkers) incentives have given us some breathing room and obviously we are worried about what happens when they end," Nissan Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn told www.just-auto, a British-based clearinghouse for auto industry news. "We are worried because we know it will have a negative impact. Hopefully, the economy will have improved enough by then so that the impact will not be too dramatic."

Most insiders believe the sales drop will be dramatic when the clunker cash disappears.

"It effectively transfers the downside risk from 2009 to 2010," David Arnold of Credit Suisse said in London. "They will not be able to simply end market incentivization -- it has to be done gradually." And even if done gently, once the handouts stop or shrivel, Arnold thinks European auto makers will see big drops in sales next year and perhaps beyond.

Before we get to Canada's program, let's consider what the Americans are doing. The U.S. Government is about to pass a cash-for-clunkers plan in part funded by a broad military spending bill. The legislation has already passed the House of Representatives and will likely become law soon.

The U.S. legislation allows consumers to use vehicle trade-in vouchers worth as much as US$4,500 to buy new vehicles. If fully enacted, the program could subsidize the purchase of 600,000 to one million vehicles and cost as much as US$4 billion. Lawmakers in the U.S. have set aside about US$1 billion for the program in a war-funding bill and the rest of the money could come from the U.S. economic-stimulus plan.

At least the U.S. program has a modest environmental element. Under the measure, clunker trade-ins would have to get no higher than 18 miles-per-gallon and have been built in 1984 or after. So the oldest, worst-polluting rattle traps are targeted for the wrecking yard and that's not a bad thing at all.

Then we have Canada. Our federal government also has a scrappage program and it's absurd. It neither works to stimulate the economy nor does it act as an effective environmental program aimed at getting the worst of the old, higher-polluting vehicles off the road.

Ottawa is offering $300 in the form of bus passes, bicycles or cash to the owners of pre-1996 vehicles who junk their rides. Some $92 million in tax dollars have been set aside for this. For the record, pre-'96 vehicles "produce 19 times more air pollutants than newer cars and trucks," according to the feds and other sources.

Of course, almost no one with an older car will take advantage of Ottawa's generosity. Why would anyone accept $300 or a bicycle to junk an old car worth ten times that in terms of a replacement cost? So Ottawa's $92 million is never going to get fully tapped.

Opponents of scrappage programs will say that's a good thing. They argue that scrappage programs don't really work very well as environmental initiatives. But they're wrong.

British Columbia's BC Scrap-it program (http://www.scrapit.ca/) takes an approach that gets it right on the environmental front -- and the economic one.

Dennis Ragoza, CEO of the program, certainly agrees that the $300 incentive is a non-starter with the public; it's just not enough.

He should know. BC Scrap-it administers the government's $300 scheme and since it was introduced on January 30 of this year, only a handful of people have taken the federal money in B.C.

On the other hands, BC Scrap-it, a provincial program, has been overwhelmed with interest. Why? Simple. The BC program offers up to $2,250 for polluting clunkers that are crushed and taken off the road.

The key point is that the payouts are based on the size of the greenhouse gas benefit. That is, the worst polluters are worth the most to owners who scrap them.

If your old car, when scrapped, offers a fairly low greenhouse gas reduction, then you get $750 applied to the purchase of a new vehicle. Medium benefit, $1,250 and high greenhouse gas benefit, $2,250.

Ragoza argues that the Scrap-it program was designed first as an environmental program, but the economic stimulus is just as real.

The B.C. program should be the model for Ottawa, but, of course, anything west of the Rockies is never taken seriously by the feds and their bureaucrats. Yet the B.C. plan can be defended as an enviro plan that also will give a jolt to the economy.

Why are the Conservatives in power ignoring a good, home-grown program from the province right next door to their Alberta power base? They're not considering a European or American model, are they?

Now that would be a disaster for Canada.

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Sam C
said
0 0

Perhaps the problem lies with the Canadian driving public -- many of whom just don't see "clunkers" as a problem.


Don H. in K.L.
said
0 0

no one wants to hear about the effect we're having on the environment. Although 300 dollars is a laughable matter, it would have the most impact on the environment if we had public transportation worth talking about in the entire country, not just the highly populated areas.


KJ in Brampton
said
0 0

Hey, I have an even better way to reduce pollution, save money and stimulate the economy. Get rid of the politicians. They are full of hot air, cost lots of money and can't agree on getting the economy moving.


Proud of my behemoth
said
0 0

Has it occurred to ANYONE that some clunkers (so-called) have a function? I drive a '99 Chev as a work truck - it works fine but I don't really care if it gets covered with salt in winter or if a piece of junk metal scratches it while loading or unloading. Don't think I'd do that with a new $40,000+ truck (which would get only slightly better mileage, if at all). That's even before one thinks of the footprint that making a new car has, or for that matter the footprint of scrapping the old one (presumably the recovered steel, etc. more than offsets disposing of all the fluids and plastic, but you get the point).

If you drive a Hummer in downtown Toronto and never take it off the tar, the greenies may have a point. I live in the boonies and use my truck AS a truck (we don't call out the army when 2" of snow falls) - LEAVE ME ALONE!


Snowman
said
0 0

Let me see here, get 300 from the CDN Gov or let the car sit in my backyard/driveway and part it out for 1000- 2500. Geeee thats a hard decsion for me. If the Gov would get real they would do what germany did, It would get alot of junkers off the road alot faster. I know this for fact as a new air ride pump for my 2000 envoy is 1100 plus tax from GM, one HID low beam bulb from GM is 1267.00 so considering all of the other good parts left on my truck if it were in sad sad shape and I could make probably 4000 cdn $. Now that being said there is no reason for GM to be charging me them prices for things I bought online for 120 and 350 respectively. and i got 2 hid low beams for $350 and we wonder why the big auto industry needs help..... easy there greedy just like the Gov.


Alan
said
0 0

Hey be careful what you are calling a wreck. My 18 year old Toyota drives and looks great. It is not like the old days where wrecks looked like wrecks with rusted out bodies and oil burning out the exhaust. To feel obligated to change especially in return for a $300 bicycle. I don't think so. I am not sure it would even give you a good bike.


snowman
said
0 0

Yes I know all you people are gonna say that its a 2000 Envoy but thats only 4 yrs difference and you can still get alot more by parting it out then calling the wrecker and let them pick it up and pay you to do it.


Moe
said
0 0

Bah! The $300 thing is a joke - my old car's worth more than that and it's a '86 model still running good.

Canada hasn't shown a good strong program in removing very rusty junkers...but hey, that's government for you and us! They never want to give away lots of cash anyway! Not serious enough...

That's why I'll keep my old car and it's NOT a rusty one.


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
0 0

I have an even better idea: let the market forces work without government handouts and incentives that ultimately have to be paid for with borrowed money and repaid with my taxes. In my view there's little benefit in crushing a perfectly good car in order to sell a replacement.

This is just a "MAKE WORK" program for auto workers or a "move work" program since a car will wear over time anyway -- it just advances and distorts the cost/benefit curve.

Making more and more subsidized cars hardly looks like great way to help the environment.


ns
said
0 0

Why doesn't the goverments just combine efforts to have the auto industry and say , if you trade in a car that is more than 5 years old , the goverment will give you $5000, this will save the auto industry and take junk off the road , instead of putting millions of tax payer money in to the
pockets of execs ....


liz ottawa
said
0 0

the fact is I have a 1995 Honda Accord that is not rusted at all, runs well and only has 135000 km on it. to tell me to junk it for 300 is ridiculous. I was told I could get 2000 for it selling it privately, which would not get it off the road. 300 buys nothing these days! now offer me at least 1k if I buy a new card, then I might take it seriously. Old Dalton MCguinty could have considered topping up the federal govt offer perhaps but he is too busy handing out cash to e health for it to be squandered. what a silly man he is. who voted this clown in. if he really wanted to help the auto industry he might have considered that. not being too bright or far seeing, he probably wont.


Robert
said
0 0

If the gouv. support the "recycling" of old cars, I think that it will be a lot more effecient than giving away billions to car makers to support their investors or banks, that are reporting outstanding profits, compare to the rest of the stocks. A support program that will have a clause that limit the purchase of the new car to cars that are manufactured in North America will automatically support the whole industry. The car makers and all their supplyers and it will not cost mega thousand $$ per save job compare to what is done now. It is said that the GM proposal was to cost over 1 million to the tax payer, for each job save... I guess the numbers are there


Steve in Ottawa
said
0 0

First off, the whole program in the US is about spending tax money on encouraging people to buy new cars, thereby stimulating the auto sector but depressing the economy. Second, how much energy and fresh water do you think it takes to make a car? I suspect the environmental savings from this program would be a pittance if not negative. Safety standards and enforcement of those standards is usually all it takes to get rid of the "worst offenders". But the US government isn't interested in maintenance, it is interested in SELLING new cars in an attempt to float GM and Chrysler.

I think the Canadian program is more than enough. Stop spending my my money and my children's future with all these waste of time programs.


Bluenose
said
0 0

I'm glad Canada will do nothing. This is basically just a bonus for the Automakers, that helps them sell more cars. More money out of taxpayers pockets. No thanks! BC can keep their left wing, looney, greeny ideas and their carbon tax!
The 92 million could be used elsewhere, and better, like large windpower generation etc., which would have a long term benefit for all.


Lorne
said
0 0

Why are the Conservatives in power ignoring a good, home-grown program from the province right next door to their Alberta power base? They're not considering a European or American model, are they?

An American model.....I am not aware of our continent having an incentive program.




canadianbrand
said
0 0

TAX payers should NOT subsidize cars! IF you want the clunkers off the road, bring in a mandatory safety check every year (safety and emissions) like the UK has. Get them off the road when they're unsafe not old. Then bringin a CO2 tax.


Fredhu in Mtl
said
0 0

Canada should offer some kind of (real) incentives to get 10 or 15 year old cars off the road. The incentive could be higher the older the car gets and this program should make sure old cars are properly recycled.

This would help our local / North American automotive industry and create / save jobs at the same time while help our environment and getting us a bit closer to reducing our oil addiction with newer more efficient cars (gasoline, diesel, hybrid or full electric).

Our governments should a lot more pro-active about this!



J L C
said
0 0

In tough economic times, it may be prudent to keep a well maintained older vehicle in service - especially light commercial trucks that run on propane or natural gas, which effectively make them low emission vehicles, even by today's standards.

Clunker legislation that simply keeps 10 year old vehicles with expensive computerized managment systems prone to failure isn't my way to go.

This isn't to mention the loss of classic vehicles and possible restoration opportunities for those enthusiasts.




nc
said
0 0

In the past 6 years Ottawa has become a wasteland of political and policy thought.
Ottawa lacks the leadership of a national govt. The provinces are in many tough issues taking the bull by the horns.
This minority eternity is becoming a detriment to Canada.


Myles D
said
0 0

let me get this straight.... we as Canadians have spent the last 4 or 5 years paying off billions of our national debt. The economy tanks, then in one year we go further into debt then ever before. Now people want the government to pay you to get rid of your old car as an incentive to buy a new one. I recall as taxpayers we have already bailed out the auto industry. I also seem to recall that the whole economic fiasco started because of excess greed and that is what this is. You have 0%, free gas, free maintenance, etc. etc. etc. and the list goes on. Now you want no payments and the government to buy your next vehicle for you at the tax payer expense? We have programs in place for clunkers already through local charities, they will issue you a tax deductible recipt for your donation.


Sam DeCatt
said
0 0

Has anybody stopped to calculate the amount of pollution produced to replace an "old clunker"? You create pollution by having to dismantle the clunker, dispose of the non-recyclable materials, plus pollution created by transporting the various parts to be recycled and the recycling process itself. This does not even begin to calculate the harm done to the environment by obtaining the raw materials to produce an new vehicle plus the pollution caused by the various manufacturing processes plus transportation etc. to the proposed buyer. Perhaps the govenment officials should take a long hard look at the overall picture.
SammyD in Ingersoll


Roger T
said
0 0

I have a clunker and have no plans to buy a new one just for the sake of having the lastest which will put me into debt.

Thanks but NO THANKS. It works fine so there is no need to rush into buying another one especially when you're being charged for every little add ons.


Matt in NB
said
0 0

I am glad our government is willing to give me back $300 of the $20000 or so I paid in taxes last year to scrap a vehicle. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Go Harper.


Alainin TO
said
0 0

The problem is that a new car raises the cost on INSURANCE premiums as well! The govt doesn't take that into consideration.


rickinclayton
said
0 0

To proud of my behemoth Way to say it like it is and so true, I see many paying $600.00 and more for their new truck and for god sake keep it in wool,don,t use it like it should for it might get dirty,I like you, drive my old clunker, and use it for no matter what, and if it cost me $1000.00 a year to keep it on the road, it,s far more better than $7000.00 a year and more for a new one wich will never be a good investment.


Bob
said
0 0

$300 for what public transport ?
Perhaps if this country had a decent inter city public transport system people would use it without the need for a puny incentive that no one will take .


JoeC from St. Thomas, ON
said
0 0

When I want to get rid of my older vehicle, I donate it to Teen Challenge. After going over the vehicle, I get a charitable donation receipt for income tax purposes from them.

This helps out the young people at Teen Challenge, it helps me get rid of an older vehicle, even if they just sell it for parts, and it gives me an income tax reduction.



schpid
said
0 0

Why is government the sole source for any of this? Everyone wants to complain but try taking a look at what YOU can do.
Yet again a simple fix to all of this: all cars sold in Canada should be hybrids. we don't need 4 of the same class or type of vehicle. Especially when they are the essential same vehicle by chassis and interior.
Sick of people dipping into my pocket


Sean Calder - Chatham ON
said
0 0

If the goal here is to stimulate the automotive industry, then this kind of incentive is something that should be run and funded through the automakers.

It would be better for them to take a $3-5000 hit in order to sell a car rather than not sell any cars at all.

Let the automakers stimulate themselves. We've already bailed them out.


Prairie Driver
said
0 0

Obviously, these people haven't stopped to look at any of the small-town Saskatchewan cars on the road!There are plenty of "clunkers" on the road here. A lot are missing bumpers,windows, turning signals, hoods, mufflers and/or brake lights. The resale value of cars out here is ridiculously high for what you can get and car insurance is a joke! I can't see anybody out here willing to get rid of these vehicles (legally on the road!!!)to get $300 in return.
And bus passes? Another joke, since public transit is not available to quite a lot of people.


david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
0 0

Stop the insanity already!!!!

I am a mechanic by trade.
I own SEVERAL vehicles from compact cars to 4wd tractors,, and ALL of them are more than ten years old.

NONE of them are junkers,many many people around here operate their farms with old halftons,, they grow the food the CAW workers eat all the time. OUR goverment wants to FORCE me to buy the new JUNK [that no one can repair]and use them because they are more reliable and more efficiant??? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!
The energy [not to mention money] required to manufacture is way less than to fix the old ones.
A lot of you guys are being sucked into believing the rhetoric that will ultimately lead to MORE tax subsidies to the false auto industry... do a little research before you condemn the "clunkers" that I use to help feed the hungry world.


 

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