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Dozens of protesters throw shoes at Bush poster
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Fri. May. 29 2009 6:11 PM ET
The highly-anticipated visit to Toronto by two former U.S. presidents has yet to yield the kind of protests that might have been expected to accompany their presence.
About 100 protesters are stationed outside the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, where former U.S. presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are speaking on Friday afternoon.
But the crowd is a far cry from the hundreds of protesters that were expected to join the anti-war demonstrations taking place across the street from the event.
So far, protesters have been throwing shoes at a poster of Bush, the most recent of the two ex-presidents in Toronto.
In his farewell trip to Iraq last December Bush was pelted with shoes thrown by an Iraqi journalist during a news conference.
That prompted Calgary protesters to hurl shoes along with insults when Bush visited Alberta two months ago, when he made his first speech since leaving office in January.
The "Toronto Coalition to Stop the War," which claims to represent more than 70 groups in the Greater Toronto Area, calls Bush a "war criminal" and wants the Canadian government to treat him as such.
"It's an easy case to be made," coalition organizer James Clark told CTV.ca, "because the war in Iraq was a war of aggression. It violated international law. That alone is merit to charge Bush with war crimes."
Clark says his group will "distribute spray painted red gloves to represent how Bush has blood on his hands."
While Bush is the main target of protesters, the group says "there's still anger at Clinton" because he "supported sanctions which led to the deaths of half a million Iraqi children."
The group also wants to pressure the Canadian government to pull its troops out of Afghanistan.
The pair of ex-presidents, each 62 years old, will spend 90 minutes discussing challenges facing Canada and the U.S.
Clinton recently told the New York Times Magazine that although he disagrees with Bush on many issues, he likes "him personally."
The Toronto event is being moderated by Frank McKenna, a former Canadian ambassador to the U.S.
Tickets range in price from $229 for general admission to $495 for VIP seats.
Some prices have been discounted, as ticket sales remain sluggish. As of late Thursday organizers said up to 500 tickets were still available from a total of 6,000.
The conversation is an offering from "Power Within," a company associated with self-help guru Tony Robbins.
With files from The Canadian Press
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.
Comments are now closed for this story
tinto
said
Wanabee
said
Just who would the whiners have to blame then.
Mike Macdonald - Winnipeg
said
RVH
said
Cambob
said
Raj
said
schpid
said
It's over. He's not the president anymore. If you are still mad at the US policies being continued under Obama then protest him. Oh that's right. The whole world was going to change when he was elected
Tim from Calgary
said
CarolynD
said
SB, Hamilton
said
Bush discussing global and domestic challenges facing Canada? Give me a break. I can't imagine why anyone would want to hear what this guy has to say.
jon
said
david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
I often wonder where these socialist "protesters" get all the money to do what they do ??????
Andrew from Ottawa
said
Concerned Canadian
said
I'm not sure that I understand your point.
If Bush hadn't gone into Iraq and Clinton hadn't applied sanctions, then presumably there'd be nothing to complain about, would there? So the protesters wouldn't have to complain, would they?
But Bush did invade for no reson, and Clinton did apply sanctions.
So that's why they're protesting.
So what's your point?
And by the way, why are citizens who care enough about the world and about the people in it, to go out and protest over the mistreatment of others, deemd "whiners"?
Aren't these really people with a strong ethical committment to changing the world for the better? Do you think that those who don't raise their voices are doing anyone any favours?
And why are you posting here if you believe that?
Craig
said
sanctions were more then warranted and a UN/NATO action would have happened sooner or later.
Rick in NB
said
Julius
said
CarolynD
said
YA from Toronto ON
said
For anyone familiar with precondition to World War II, do you not see similarities? The world under George Walker Bush was run as he saw it fit. Whether it was wrong did not matter. This is what Adolf Hitler was all about.
George Walker Bush deserves to be charged but it is not going to happen. But at least we can demonstrate and show not only to the public but he himself that he disgusts us and the rest of the world. We should force him to rethink his actions though he cannot change anything now, but he should burn in his own consciousness the hell he has created.
Lets not forget our current economic crisis! This too is simple and straight George W. Bush’s fault. We need to demonstrate on this issue. He destroyed not only ours but the world’s financial system. All that failed happened under his administration and as such he is sole responsible for it.
George Walker Bush, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
TD
said
John Luft
said
Golf Company Grunt
said
'Pro Patria'
Bill from Oshawa
said
Joey Bloggins
said
Art Philp
said
Paul J Graham, Saskatoon
said
Bush Jr will live out his life of luxury, having messed up the world with no accounting. We can at least remind him that he is not wanted...George Bush and his administration should be tried as war criminals according to the Geneva convention and current International Law.
Steve
said
Thank god that the Americans are there to protect this world from all of the insane people who want to destroy it. Can anyone think of what it would be like if America did not have the power and the common sense that it does?
It is long overdue that we supported the Americans 100%. We do everything to try to be like them, but then make it fashionable to complain about them.
We are a disgrace!
Fort59
said
CarolynD
said
Why wasn't it news that 15 of the 19 terrorists on the twin towers were Saudis? The towers weren't even down before Rumsfeld said "now we can get Saddam".
Forget "jumping the gun" going into Iraq it was an all-out assault. They hanged Saddam and now are leaving the country in civil wars. Iran has a free door now to take over parts of the country.
Do some homework you people who pretend to care because you might really be surprised how scarey it really is.
N Korea needs nuclear power. They don't even have electricity in many cities. Don't worry about them, big bad China has that area covered.
Read about the UN sec, Council.how communist countries like China , Russia etc.VETO western countries trying to help Africa and Sri Lanka.
Go Home BUSH are you here to assess the damage you have done to our country??
Google Precott Bush if you want an eye-opener!!
~
Joe
said
RCR
said
George Kowalski
said
What a warmonger. Where are the protesters for him?
CR in Edmonton
said
Who can take time off work to attend these things anyways?
W. Davis III
said
Gotta love it.
Ralph
said
The precedent for charging Bush comes from the case of Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet who was charged under the principle of universal jurisdiction by Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón. This principle states that certain crimes are so egregious that they constitute crimes against humanity and can therefore be prosecuted in any court in the world.
It should also be noted that the UK House of Lords ruled that Pinochet had no right to immunity from prosecution as a former head of state, and could be put on trial. So it is with Bush.
SK Doctor
said
Robert Brise
said
Butters
said
Very easy to forget what keeps us safe in this world sipping on a latte in the beaches, isn't it.
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
These "professional" anti-war activists are largely crazed zealots who despise anyone and anything that roams right of center. They sport a hyped-up political agenda that, effectively, supports pacifism and appeasement...at any cost.
Ultimately, they wouldn't stand behind ANY rational defensive/offensive military effort of ANY kind in ANY place. Their ideology is absolute, and leaves no room for the countering of the legitimate threats which are a part of the real world.
Under them, the planet would be a much more volatile place on which to live. We would NOT be "safer" and more "secure." Rather, we'd be defenseless, demilitarized gumbies, constantly praying that some deranged nut doesn't take advantage of us or some other nation.
They take their precious freedom, democratic rights, and security completely for granted, and have absolutely no appreciation for what is/was required (and the lives sacrificed) to achieve and maintain the cushy life they're overly accustomed to.
Okay. I'm finished. Now all the left-wingers can flip out.
P.S. Indeed, they have every right to demonstrate and protest. "Mr. Evil" (George Bush) has gotten used to it.
keith fox
said
live in two of the best
countries in the world and
watched in horror the events
of 911 are protesting against
former USA president Bush.
We as citizens of Canada and
the United States have to
fight these terrorists all
over the world. The people
of Afghanistan have to be a
free people like we are and
we have to fight till they
become a free society.I am
very thankful for Former
United States President Bush
fighting the terrorists .
God bless Canada and the
United States and thank God
I was born in Canada not
Afghanistan.
Paul - Canada
said
Dunny from Manotick
said
Matt
said
What? You Liberal supporters didn't know the Ignatieff is ACTUALLY more pro George Bush and pro Iraq war than you CLAIM Harper is?. Don't believe me? Just wait until the Conservatives create a "truth ad" concerning Iggy's support for Bush, the war in Iraq, torture, holding people in jail indefinately without charge.......
Shouldn't these people be protesting Obama for going back on his promise to release all the torture photos, and his promise to close Gitmo?
Brett (Vancouver)
said
I'd say taking the fight to Iraq was a brilliant strategic move.
They didn't find WMD's, but they found tones of evidence that Saddam was and did fund Al Qaeda. That is not disputed by anyone. And do we have to remind the conspiracy lunatics that Al qaeda took full responsibility for 911?
War sucks. It's a horrible testament to humanity. However, throwing shoes at an old president, while praising the current president who supports the same war effort is... well... hypocritical and naive.
If Obama was president back in 2001, he would have had to have made the exact same decision to invade.
Only foolish shoe-throwing people believe there is a fundamental difference between the Republicans and Democrats. They both serve the same industrial military complex.
get a life
said
Rick in Calgary
said
Steve
said
Concerned Canadian
said
You ask why protestors don't attack Kim Jong Il.
The reason is that protestors are hoping to affect policy changes here in the West through democratic action. Protests against foreign dictators don't do much, because those people are not usually susceptible to public opinion.
If you are interested in helping fight injustice by foreign governments, however, try Amnesty International, which brings pressure to bear against people unfairly imprisoned around the world.
But those of you disparaging protestors in general just don't seem to get it.
Often the right wing lectures us about the value of our freedoms here in the West in defense of our system. You seem to be under the impression that since we have a democratic system which allows protest, we ought not to protest.
Hmm...
But we only have those rights because people in the past took "time off work" (which seems to disturb many of you) and often risked their lives in order to gain those freedoms.
Would you argue that Martin Luther King should have just kept his mouth shut and not marched in Selma Alabama to protest civil right abuses?
Or was Dr. King doing what conscience demanded?
Do you feel that feminists should never have complainaed about the male-dominated system which didn't pay them equally?
Or should they have accepted that injustice?
Liberal democracy does not consist of casting a ballot once every four years and then keeping your mouth shut. It depends upon the willingness of informed citizens to effect change through political action, from the ballot box to protests, to writing letters to the editor, to posting on these sites.
You too are taking part in that same process that you then decry, without apparently any sense of your own logical inconsistency.
So I guess that just leaves two questions:
Which injustices are you happy to accept?
Why?
Alberta Believer
said
Tinto that would make sense but we're talking about the senseless here. The loons who protest George Bush are really stupid people. They scuffle with police over an ex-US president so that they can get arrested and "enjoy" the benefits of a criminal record while alleging that George Bush is a war criminal. Just to humour those idiots for a second, you'd never see serious legal scholars or judges who believe that his administration did violate international law involved in these lonnie displays.
They should all be arrested and have their heads examined! Or sent to the suni triangle in Iraq to "apologize" on behalf of the west, and see if Al Quaeda doesn't chop them up too!
Remarkable
said
Jessica from Toronto
said
Steve
said
I am not a Bush supporter nor have I ever been, and here I am telling protestors to contribute to society.
People like you are the reason why people can't sneeze without someone being offended. You will try your hardest to make your voice heard cause you are so convoluted in your own grandeur that you actually think your views are right and everyone else is wrong that does not agree with you. No one cares what you think, and to continue to think the way you do is delusional and viewed as self-absorbed.
Steve the Pundit
said
Troops are still in Iraq, but will soon be deployed in Afghanistan, under orders of the Commander-in-Chief (Obama)
Those that wish to protest the ONGOING CONTINUED involvement of the US in these parts of the world should go and protest at the White House.
Those that just don't like Bush (even though he no longer has the power to change any of this) and want to throw shoes at his likeness (now THERE'S intelligent political discourse for you!) should go rent a hall or a field and stop inconveniencing the rest of us.
Paul - Canada
said
Do you believe that all murderers should not go through a judicial process and they should all just be judged by some "GOD" that you believe in? If that is the case, I guess Saddam should have just been judged by your "GOD".
As for all the people telling protestors to get a job. Maybe you guys should be working since you are apparently hard at work. You know surfing the internet and "whining" about protestors. It's a good thing I'm on my days off and not taking advantage of my companies time.
Kris
said
Some day we'll have media that tries to be objective again. I hope.
Dan
said
In 40 years from now. After his demise, history will see Bush as one of the worst war criminals in the first decade of the new millenium."
Oh yes Rick, it will be a world Utopia, skipping, hover cars, and flowers abound...fa la la...liberal peace nic hack! Now bow to Obama!
keberem
said
Bush was elected Two times by the majority of the American people .... You should remember we are disrespecting the american people. He did right to protect the American people. we didn't see any terror attack after 911.
sick paying tax for police control paid protesters
said
jordan from trenton
said
John Luft
said
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
mark hughes
said
RVH
said
Anne
said
Shawn from Ottawa
said
Linda in Vancouver
said
Not because of their political positions. But because they offer nothing in the way of solutions to world problems,and,even if they did manage a moment of brilliance, they'd have no idea how to express a positive idea.
Consider the "keep your friends close,and your enemies closer" philosophy.
If you want to implement change in the face of opposing views, it seems to me, that the first thing you have to do is listen to those opposing your views. I see no value in only hearing those with whom you agree.
I never liked Mr. Bush as President. But I'd surely like to hear what he has to say, what his administation was thinking, and how they came to the conclusions that many of us didn't like.
...
John
said
syed
said
Mike
said
Jason, go make a difference instead of protesting!
said
ASM
said
Globe & Mail is sponsoring, so CTV will suppress
said
It took 30 years to get Pinochet.
said
Margaret
said
Jon
said
MK from NS
said
CTV, please show pictures of slobs,
said
What a bunch of losers!
They'll be crowding around, hoping for autographs.
Steve in TO
said
McQuaid
said
We have become a very strange people.
Mike - Toronto
said
I really just wanted to see how many "hundreds" of people would show up to protest someone that isn't in power any more
J. Kyle
said
GR from Markham
said
Ed in Ontario
said
JPL
said
GR from Markham
said
A million innocent Iraqis butchered
said
Yes, that is a war crime.
Jamie
said
HOWEVER, Iraq had violated pretty much all other Security Council resolutions, giving the US legal authority to respond. Furthermore, there was no peace treaty signed after the declaration of the first Iraq War. So legally, the US and Iraq were ALREADY in a state of war. That's why they could LEGALLY enforce the "no fly zones" by bombing Iraqi military installations. Just because some diplomat in some Arab or European country says that the war is illegal, doesn't mean it actually is.
As for war crimes... this has been the most open and transparent war fought in the entirety of human history. We got to watch it live on TV! Independent reporters were embedded with actual soldiers... information was not filtered through the Army News Agency like in previous wars. Were terrible things committed by US soldiers? Yes... were they largely isolated incidents? Yes. That happens in all wars... remember Canadian soldiers torturing people in Somalia? Stop confusing the actions of individuals with the state.
Where were the protests when Iraq invaded 2 of it's neighbors, resulting in deaths numbering in the millions or any other (and dramatically more violent) conflicts around the world? Let's be honest... the protesters are more concerned with expressing their anti-Americanism than with pursuing a kind of objective justice.
K.Matroskin in TO
said
Patriot
said
Gail (Hamilton)
said
Simply put...
said
Step up or step off - Canada is a country where this right is supported. There are plenty of countries around the world where it is not. You can always move to one of them - you don't have to suffer through this type of display if you really don't want to.
Matt-Ontario
said
bush has already completely ruined the US. bush destroyed the economy, possibly beyond repair. Everything hidden from the public would be facts of the extensive damage caused by bush. He is already recognized as one of the worst, if not the worst, presidents ever. Obama will most likely be remembered as the president who brought the states back from near death. Even if it turned out that Obama actually was trying to destroy the country, he's too late, bush already did it.
Glenn in Winnerpeg
said
KMC (Markham, ON)
said
Actually Sadam Hussein invaded Kuwait because the Kuwaitis were slant-drilling, for oil, under Iraqi territory.
He warned the Kuwaitis, several times to cease and desist, but they failed to do so.
Sadam then went to the U.S. and got the "green light" to invade Kuwait, from the U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie.
Sadam was largely set up, by
the U.S.. The ensuing Gulf War was intended to damage and weaken Sadam militarily.
The U.S. Invasion of Iraq was partly to control the oil and partly for the benefit of Israel. The U.S. was goaded into the invasion by all the "Israel Firsters";
Glaspie, Wolfowitcz, Crystal, Feith, et al., because the Israelis saw Sadam as a potential threat. Now they're trying to get the U.S. to take on Iran., their current bogeyman.
Paul
said
Concerned Canadian
said
By protesting against George Bush, we are not disrespecting the American people,as you seem to believe. You can respect a people, but disagree with their choices for leader.
People also voted for Hitler, remember?
We are disrespecting George Bush and his policies that caused the needless deaths of 65,000 Iraqi people and 5,000 American soldiers. All of this has been for nothing. There is no connection between Sadam Hussein and Osama bin Laden- in fact, they were enemies.
We are protesting the use of torture, a clear violation of the Geneva convention. That's why Obama is being attacked by some on the left, for refusing to charge Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld for war crimes.
We are protesting being lied to about weapons of mass destruction.
We are protesting free market laws that have led to a global economic meltdown.
As for the belief that Bush has "kept America safe...," invading Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror. The invasion had actually been suggested back in 1974 by Henry Kissinger, who saw that the oil fields there would be vital to American interests after they had depleted their own reserves.
Everything that has happened since then in the Middle East hinges on that fact, including the attacks of 9/11, which were based on American troops being stationed in Saudia Arabia to protect the dictatorship of the Saudi rulers.
America supports torture, needless invasion, dictatorships around the world (including the previous Shah of Iran, and Pinochette), and free market ideology which has created a kind of economic terrorism.
That's why people continue to protest him.
That's why they "take time off work" (surely a sin in a capitalist culture devoted to money)in order to raise their voices in protest.
Imagine if the German people had done that when he killed the Jews.
Or would they have been "bums" for leaving work?
Dan
said
We canadians should show respect for the world leaders.
Bush was elected Two times by the majority of the American people .... You should remember we are disrespecting the american people. He did right to protect the American people. we didn't see any terror attack after 911.
Amen!
Mac in Ottawa
said
Former President Bush is NOT a war criminal - did he make mistakes on his Iraq policy ABSOLUTELY -
Do not however bad mouth the military or police who will undoubtedly by forced to take strong action at this event.. as the saying goes - "if you don't like what they stand for --- feel free to stand in front of them"
reetside
said
Brad
said
Get a Job
said
Jamie
said
Read your comment again and then read Osama bin Laden's justification for Sept. 11. I'm not calling you a terrorist, but you both use many of the same justifications for your (shared?) beliefs.
War on live TV
said
The bloody realities of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been heavily cleansed in the media. One of the main reasons the Vietnam war came to an end was because the public over time could not stomach the up-close graphic bloody miseries of war they were seeing in the nightly news.
So the Iraq war (both of them for that matter as the "clean" image of war was created by Norman Schwarzkopf and Bush Sr.) is anything but the most open and transparent war fought in the entirety of human history. What we get to watch on live TV are night vision panoramas of vague detonations and missile-cams flying into rooftops. If we were shown the real, graphic bodily results that comes as a result of these things, people might not be so quick to get behind the war. The government knows this so they suppress everything that could create a bad feeling in the public mind. This is precisely why Bush even suppressed the image and news of returning coffins of his own country's soldiers, which Harper tried to do as well before Canadians PROTESTED and got forced him to do the right thing.
The Man
said
If you want to stop the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, fine. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do it.
Carrying signs and shouting slogans at men who are no longer a factor in these wars is pointless and childish. You guys should instead be making your voices heard in Parliment, not in the streets.
Of course, I support the war in Afghanistan, so I think you're wrong anyway.
Frank, Toronto
said
Possibly from Al-Qaeda or shady pro-Obama organizations like ACORN?
Concerned Canadian
said
Explaining the rationale behind the terorist attacks is not the same as justifying them. I understand why Hitler began the Second World War as a consequence of the imposition of an unfair treaty at the end of the First World War. I understand the psychological reasons why he wanted to exterminate the Jewish people.
That doesn't mean I support Hitler- I just understand him better. I'm not excusing Hitler- I'm seeking to explain his behaviour.
Regarding 9/11, I am merely pointing out that American foreign policy is the ultimate cause of the attacks on the trade centre, not some vague "they hate us and our way of life" rationalization that seeks to hide America's culpability.
You cannot station your troops on Saudi soil, in violation of the Koran, without expecting that the Fundamentalist Muslims will react against you. Osma bin Laden warned the Americans several times to remove their troops. They don't because they need them there to support the Saudi dictatorship. And they support the Saudis because they need the oil.
Does that mean that bin Laden was justified in killing innocent people? Of course not. But America was not attacked on 9/11 for no reason at all. It was attacked because Americans (and British and French) governments have been interfering in the region for years, supporting dictators (like the Shah) in pursuit of their own interests.
It is completely irresponsible, then, to pretend that America was an innocent victim of irrational aggression. The innocent victims were the people in the towers.
It is American government policy, in support of large oil corporations, however, that put them in that position, not just the Muslim fundamentalists.
And it's not just Bush who supported that policy- so did Clinton. This isn't a matter of partisan attack - it's a matter of rational analysis.
Gord in Calgary
said
ric
said
If they are so content to stand by bush then they should be happy to renounce their Canadian citizenship and go live in america with the rest of the the hicks, hillbilly's and morons
Richard D, Brinkman
said
Jamie
said
I disagree completely, the reporting from Iraq has been pretty open. Every bomb blast that went off was reported with video of it's bloody aftermath. Remember watching the news in 2007? Add the internet to the mix and it HAS BEEN the most open war in human history. It takes merely seconds to find pictures or videos of the most inhumane acts of violence on the internet. You can go online an watch beheadings, or US soldiers being shot and killed, or bombs going off killing and maiming scores of people. WE ARE shown the real and graphic results of war... of the screaming mothers whose children were killed in an air-strike. I honestly don't know how you could think otherwise.
CTV.CA doesn't print my comments
said
Jamie
said
Let me get this straight. So people who disagree with the protesters (or agreeshould renounce their citizenship and move to America? That's what you actually believe?
Peter in Edmonton
said
"why are citizens who care enough about the world and about the people in it, to go out and protest over the mistreatment of others, deemd "whiners"?"
-
I wouldn't call them whiners. I'd call them pretentious posers. Half of them don't really even know what they're protesting and are told what to think by dot-org fan sites. Truth is, to answer the question you're trying to answer - what would have to complain about if it wasn't for Bush, well, take your pick. Contrary to their 'protests' they don't really need a reason. If it wasn't Bush it would be someone else. These people have, ironically, the least interest in learning, the least interest in dealing with reality (and no I don;t think the Iraq war was justified - that's not the point), and in most cases the least grasp on reality. They aren't theere so they can protest Bush. They're there so they can be cool and say, "I was at a Bush protest and I threw a rock at a police officer and accomplished exactly nothing".
These people obviously have time on their hands but no idea what to do with it. They obviously have a good idea of what's wrong with this world but no practical realistic solutions to solve them.
You said:"Aren't these really people with a strong ethical committment to changing the world for the better? "
No. Not remotely. This is like claiming hippies changed the US in the '60's and hippies had nothing to do with it. GO look at the films of MLK,do you see one hippy? No what you see is everyday people - squares if you will - and these are the people that REALLY enact change in this world. The rest of you are all picculli-smoking posers without clue
Peter in Edmonton
said
"why are citizens who care enough about the world and about the people in it, to go out and protest over the mistreatment of others, deemd "whiners"?"
-
I wouldn't call them whiners. I'd call them pretentious posers. Half of them don't really even know what they're protesting and are told what to think by dot-org fan sites. Truth is, to answer the question you're trying to answer - what would they have to complain about if it wasn't for Bush, well, take your pick. Contrary to their 'protests' they don't really need a reason. If it wasn't Bush it would be someone else. These people have, ironically, the least interest in learning, the least interest in dealing with reality (and no I don;t think the Iraq war was justified), and in most cases the least grasp on reality. They aren't theere so they can protest Bush. They're there so they can be cool and say, "I was at a Bush protest and I threw a rock at a police officer and accomplished exactly nothing".
These people obviously have time on their hands but no idea what to do with it. They obviously have a good idea of what's wrong with this world but no practical realistic solutions to solve them.
You said:"Aren't these really people with a strong ethical committment to changing the world for the better? "
No. Not remotely. This is like claiming hippies changed the US in the '60's and hippies had nothing to do with it. GO look at the films of MLK,do you see one hippy? No what you see is everyday people - squares if you will - and these are the people that REALLY enact change in this world. The rest of you are all picculli-smoking posers without clue
Peter in Edmonton
said
"The problem is that these "anti-war" protesters only seem to protest western leaders associated with war."
--
Because that's not "in". It's not "cool". These people are told what to think and ironically they will turn around and call you 'sheeple' for such a remark. Ever wonder what Alex jones was doing before 9/11? look it up - he was a high school drop out busy failing at everything.
John Luft
said
Anti-Protest
said
Nathan
said
Warren
said
Ron
said
Protester of Protests
said
Mel Blake
said
Yes, I know that the US supported Sadam against Iran, essentially as a lesser of evils policy. But let's hear the peace protesters explain how they would have done things. How would they have gotten rid of Sadam and brought nascent democracy to Iraq without firing a shot? Maybe the same way we got rid of Castro? Ooops! Maybe they like Castro and Chavez too!
The chosen one, Obama is essentially following the McCain plan for military policy by the way.
Matt
said
McQuaid
I love Canada's Neo-Government: A British Member of Parliament sends aid to Palestine after the recent invasion and near destruction, and we tell him he can't come in the country 'cause he is a terrorist. Another guy, a former U.S. president, makes war on half the people of the world, and we invite him in to give speEches.
We have become a very strange people."
OK, first off, this debate between Bush and Clinton was arranged by and is being hosted by former LIBERAL MP Frank McKenna.
Secondly, the British MP in question voiced support for Hezbola (yeah I know I probably spelled in wrong) not for the Palestinien people. There is a difference.
Andrew in Ottawa
said
Does this mean that if someone cuts me off a couple times on the road, or swears at me in public, or taunts my wife, or even tosses a snowball through my window, that I am justified in attacking them in response? If so, wow, your logic is twisted and severely misguided.
How about laying blame on the 19 men who flew airliners into the buildings, or more importantly, laying blame on those responsible for brain-washing of those 19 men?
Honestly, it's truly a shame that some of my fellow canadians have lost their moral compass. Perhaps one day, in your elder, and more wiser years, you'll begin a path of a more enlightened response, rather than such a miopic one.
ps: look up the word miopic.
Peter in Edmonton
said
-- I didn't approve of the Iraq war but this statement is completely false. Saddam refused to comply for 8 years to the terms of his ceasefire which was from a war that was sanctioned by the UN.
Deal with the truth or you can't be taken seriously. If these people had the ability to do that they'd probably be gainfully employed and otherwise busy.
FG
said
CarolynD
said
sending our guys to Afghanistan to be killed for NOTHING! Russia and all their power couldn't win in this vast land.
why are WE there?
The Terrorist epi-center is on the immediate borders of Pakistan.
I protest Bush being actually ASKED by people here to come to Canada. WHY??
To check the "collateral damage" of hos and his Repib. admin allowing Wall Street and the Federal Reserve to destroy the world's financial stability.
Concerned Canadian.. you and the few of us who have actually looked into this ..it's a waste of time..
Some people actually believe WAR is justified..
without one question asked WNY??
Wade Ens
said
Ken
said
John K.
said
CarolynD in Toronto
said
No, I am NOT shilling for him.
He is highly intelligent, and presents some very strong facts in his movies and articles. In particular and relative to this War Protest..Fahrenheit 911 is very educational.
MY point is WAR is NOT necessary as it was in WW1/2. Canadians do NOT need to engage in military action.
Peacekeeping, rebuilding and educating is fine.
~
~
Loons
said
You do realize you just insulted 300 million Americans by painting them all with your brush of hate.
Gotta love the lefties. They hate everyone that doesn't think like them and then have the audacity to call others "haters"
Pure hypocrasy!
whitewolf
said
what is it with the admiration society that one would pay to go see these two ex presidents take your money away for something not even entertaining
spend the money on your family and your children, at least that honourable
shallow people shallow minds
David
said
Kerry
said
Who invited Bush???
said
What's your point about Obama..
the War protestors are talking about us Canadians and our Children.
Time for Canada to start acting like a Grown-Up Nation instead of a "clean-up" crew for the USA!!
No, Jamie, you're totally wrong about Iraq war.
said
Only the UN Security Council can authorize military action to enforce its resolutions. There was no such authorization.
You right wing nuts really need to get yourselves some education.
Peter in Edmonton, you too are wrong.
said
US and UK established no-fly zones in Iraq that contravened so many of their own nations' laws and international laws that it's ridiculous to argue anything to the contrary.
Is there something about Alberta air or water that makes people stupid?
Pip
said
Judging by the turnout, most people who might otherwise support these protesters think it *is* too late and didn't bother showing up.
Protestors have lives, unlike Bush/Clinton victims
said
Are you going to argue that they were all ooga booga terrorists?
You right wing nuts embarrass Canada.
Move to deadhead USA if you think it's so good.
Chris in Toronto
said
BUSH DERANGED SYNDROM
And still have my Bush/Cheney '04 bumper stickers plus all the good memories of the Nov. 2004 day, a day I will never forget, remember how we the Bushies were shown the "4" fingers to all liberal Kerry people?
Enjoy the party!
RCR
said
Read what anti-anti-war protestors advocate:
said
One poster wants to see some heads cracked.
What else should be expected of those who support war criminal Bush?
Concerned Canadian
said
I'm sorry Andrew, but you still don't get it.
You're type of fallacious thinking is called a false dichotomy- either the terrorists are right, or the U.S. government is. This is a basic fallacy of reasoning of those given to a simplistic black or white view of the world.
But there is plenty of blame on both sides. Re-read my post, and you'll see that I don't claim that the deaths of the people in the Twin Towers were justifiable. But the motives of the hijackers are understandable.
Comparing what the U.S. has done in the Middle East to someone "cutting you off in traffic" is simply absurd. The U.S. has supported regimes that torture their own citizens to continue totalitarian rule. It gave arms to both sides of the Iran-Iraq war, fomenting chaos in the region for its own purposes. It gave the gas to Sadam Hussein that was used to kill the Kurds. It leaves troops in Saudi Arabia to maintain a dictatoriship.
And you are surprised that bin Laden attacked? Why do you think most of the hijackers were Saudi?
Those who have any historical knowledge know that 9/11 was the end result of a long series of events, many of which involved American foreign policy intrusion into the lives of the people in the Middle East.
You seem to be arguing that no matter what the U.S. does, no response is apparently allowed. But do you not think that the U.S. has to accept some responsiblity for what they do in the world?
Acknowledging your own shortcomings is the first step on the path to ethical growth, don't you think? You need to look at both sides of this issue, Andrew, before forming your judgment.
And by the way, the word is "myopic", not "miopic".
Maybe you should look it up.