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MP says Quebec mother must yield to Saudi laws

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. Apr. 16 2009 9:49 AM ET

Canadian officials cannot order the repatriation of a Quebec woman who claims her husband is holding her against her will in Saudi Arabia, because of local laws that supersede her desire to leave, says a Calgary MP involved in her case.

Deepak Obhrai, the parliamentary secretary to Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon, said Nathalie Morin -- a 24-year-old Quebec woman who went to Saudi Arabia three years ago -- is living in a jurisdiction where Canadian laws do not apply.

As a result, the Canadian government cannot force her return home, nor can it expect that Canadian laws be applied in a foreign jurisdiction.

"When any visitor comes to Canada, we expect them to abide by our rules. The same applies to anyone going overseas," Obhrai told CTV's Canada AM on Thursday.

The rules in Saudi Arabia require Morin's husband to approve the travel plans of his wife and children.

As a result, the Canadian government must "wait until the husband can give the permission to leave," said Obhrai, who visited Morin in Saudi Arabia last December.

Additionally, Canada is bound by the Hague Convention to seek the permission of both parents if children are to travel outside of Saudi Arabia, Obhrai said.

"In this case, we need each side's permission, and therefore, we have been working...to try to facilitate that issue to get Ms. Morin's husband to agree to allow both Ms. Morin and the children to leave," he said.

But so far, negotiations have "not been successful," Obhrai said.

While Morin's family has suggested she is in an abusive relationship, Obhrai said he did not see anything that concerned him when he visited with her in Saudi Arabia last December.

"I came out with the impression that they were trying to resolve the issue and nothing stood out to me as a concern at that time," Obhrai said.

The timeline

Morin has not returned to Canada since leaving for Saudi Arabia in October 2006. She has given birth to two children since leaving Canada.

At a recent news conference, Morin's mother, Johanne Durocher, played a taped message from her daughter.

"I want to return to Canada as soon as possible with my three children," Morin said in the recording.

Her mother has threatened to sue the Canadian government, in an effort to get her daughter home.

On Thursday morning, Durocher told CTV's Canada AM that Morin was invited to Saudi Arabia under false pretenses -- based in part, on the fact that she had been allowed to leave the country on previous visits.

"She (visited) him two times and he was very nice with her," she said in an interview from Montreal. "And he told her that he would never sequester her or the children. And we believed him because she (went) two times."

But the most recent visit left her daughter trapped in Saudi Arabia, Durocher said.

Earlier this week, a foreign affairs spokesperson told The Canadian Press that Morin "has been involved in a complex family dispute in Saudi Arabia."

The spokesperson said officials had e-mailed or phoned Morin more than 100 times since February 2008 and with her mother more than 220 times over the same time period.

Obhrai said Morin's story serves as an example as to why Canadians should be familiar with local laws before traveling overseas.

"As we expect foreigners when they come into our country to abide by our laws, they should be abiding by the laws of that country and that takes precedence over everything else," he said.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

G-Dawg
said

I agree totally. We must respect and most certainly be aware of the laws of other countries before traveling. We would expect no less from foreigners setting foot on Canadian soil. Although their are countries out there that seem to have some backwards laws and ideals that we don't agree with, we should respect them or not go there.


Peter
said

This should be a wake up call to all Canadian women. If you don't know by now, in Saudi Arabia, you're no better than property.


Gilles in Pembroke
said

Every newscarrier seems to avoid the real issue here, which is why Nat is being held like a prisoner. It isn't that it is the law of the land, but what the law is based upon, which is Sharia and the resultant ideology of Islam.

Canadians really need to wake up and study this repressive belief system and what it says about how to treat women, property and anyone who isn't part of Islam.

Hopefully, the press will soon have the courage to print the truth and facts instead of skirting the issues with politically correct multi cultural pablum.


Dave W
said

Okay, I'm sure there's going to be lots of comments from people insisting our government do something to help. However, how can we expect visitors to obey our laws (albeit more fair and lax) yet ask the government to step in with other countries whose laws we don't agree with? Remember folks, when you travel, you are no longer in Canada and Canadian laws don't apply. That includes the United States. It may not seem "fair" but that's life. It's unfortunate this lady is stuck in this situation but the Canadian government can't help her.


Brian the taxpayer
said

I don't know, this doesn't seem that complicated.

If you marry a Saudi and move to Saudi Arabia then you pretty much chose your path in life. It really isn't the job of the Canadian government and my tax dollars to help someone get out of their marriage that any thinking person knew wouldn't go well.

When will people start to take personal responsibility for their decisions and quit blaming the government. I suppose when media such as CTV and CBC quit giving it so much attention. It really is poor journalism.


Andrew in Alberta
said

I hate to say it, but in this case I don't see anything that Canada can do for this woman. If you move to a foreign country you have to abide by their laws, even if they are seen as backward or oppressive by Canadian standards.....let this be a lesson to anyone thinking of marrying someone from the middle east and moving there for either a visit or to live!


Terry in Ottawa
said

I would like to see her mother find funding to launch legal proceedings against the Saudi Governments assets in Canada and take it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. The only thing that seems to matter to the Saudi family is their massive amount of accummulated assets throughout the world.


Anne
said

I am sorry for her situation, but these women must stop being so naive when it comes to relationships with men from these countries. She went over there willingly, duped perhaps (but again, do the research as to how they view women and children), and now there are 3 children instead of one. It is a very sad situation, but suing our government is not appropriate.


jt in vancity
said

What was this woman thinking? Moving to Saudi Arabia? What did she think was going to happen? This is a culture that only values a woman as breeding stock!
NO woman in Saudi Arabia has any rights unless her husband gives them to her!
And Canada has NO legal recourse in this! We cannot enforce our laws on another nation! She has made a foolish choice and she will have to learn to live with it! He will NEVER let her leave, especially now that a family issue has become public!

Westerner's, especially women, have got to stop being so nieve! These cultures are brutal, and they DON'T share our values!


Darren Hiebert
said

I'm confused! How was it that this woman did not know the "position" of women in her husband's native land? Why would she willingly take her children and go live in her husband's native land, where women are chattel or property of their husbands? Especially when she comes from a country where women get custody/primary-care-and-control of their children over 88% of the time in divorce and seperations... She made the choice to firstly marry this man and then to leave the country...now she unfortunately must live with that choice.


M
said

Sure, we expect foreigners to obey our laws while they're here... but we seem to have no problem in allowing foreign ideals to influence and change our laws. I think we need to take a firmer stand in this country to protect the ideals that built it instead of allowing newcomers to change things according to their ideals... otherwise this country will end up turning into the same kind of place a lot of people fled from.

Can some one please explain to me on what grounds Nathalie's mom can sue the Canadian government? What is the government supposed to do in this case? Create and international incident? She should be ashamed for even suggesting such a thing.



Kevin D- Calgary
said

Unfortunately Obhrai is correct. One must know the laws of the country one is moving to with their children. This same situation has occurred numerous times before. The mother has stated that they knew about this potential issue but believed it wouldn't happen to them because he had been nice enough to let her leave the two times previously. I am sure that in all the previous cases the man also told the woman that he would be nice to her and let her leave as well until such time as the woman showed up in the country.


SB-Winnipeg
said

"When any visitor comes to Canada, we expect them to abide by our rules. The same applies to anyone going overseas," - It's hard to argue with that. The mother should re-read that line before she tries suing the Canadian Government.


TVic
said

Another Canadian left hanging by the Canadian government in a foreign country. When are we going to get a federal government that sticks up for its citizens in other countries??


Jim in Edmonton
said

People go to third world countries and expect Canadian law to apply to them there. People come here from third world countries and expect us to accept third world customs and laws such as sharia law. If you go to a third world country, you get what you get. If you come here from abroad you can't expect to impose third world view on us. Some folks don't learn the language, don't get a job and don't pay taxes to uphold the country they freely decided to come to. If you don't like it here, try something else, if you do, be a Canadian not a third world citizen living in Canada. If you read this and ask what is a Canadian then you have a problem. Find out.


Arm
said

This should be a warning to people to not get into these situations. I have had enough of people getting themselves into situations and later when they change their mind threaten to sue if they dont get their way.
It is a little late to undo the problem this woman helped create.


David, Woodbridge
said

This government baffles me. They will rescue thousands of citizens of convenience out of Lebanon and yet won't assist a real citizen who is a virtual prisoner in Saudi Arabia. A wife requires the permission of her husband to leave the country? That's medieval! Why do we tolerate such nonsense?


Sherry Katrina
said

I have known quite a number of women who have ended up with similar problems - lessons to learn obviously. I do not believe the Mother should even be allowed to bring up "suing the government" ergo - taking our tax dollars. Her daughter was old enough to choose, should have checked everything regarding the law in another country - especially such a different culture as is Saudi Arabia and though I feel sorry for her, I do not want my tax dollars being given away for this. If you move to another country - no matter where it is, you should make sure you understand the culture and laws there first.


Norm
said

How can Canada guarantee safety when someone leaves Canada to live somewhere else, and expect us to bail them out when they get into trouble? Is this reasonable accomodation?


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