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Despite Fiat threat, CAW says no to more concessions
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Date: Wed. Apr. 15 2009 10:03 PM ET
Despite a threat from Fiat that it may walk away from a merger with Chrysler unless workers make more concessions, the head of the Canadian Auto Workers says the union won't stray from its previously established negotiation pattern.
Ken Lewenza said the union won't concede anymore of wage cuts than it did in its recent agreement with General Motors, but is willing to help troubled Chrysler find savings in other ways.
"We always said that the economic pattern is important to the auto industry to make sure that one company doesn't have an advantage or a disadvantage, but we also said to Chrysler that we'll use our creativity, the same as we've done in the past, to increase productivity and increase the bottom line at Chrysler without touching the economic pattern," Lewenza told a news conference Wednesday.
The GM agreement is estimated to save the automaker about $7 an hour per worker.
But Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne told the Globe and Mail the company will renege on a proposed partnership with the struggling North American automaker if the CAW doesn't cut its compensation package by $19 an hour.
The cut would whittle their wages down to $55 an hour -- including so-called "legacy costs" such as pensions and other benefits -- the rate Toyota and Honda workers make in the U.S.
Fiat's hard line to the CAW was immediately repeated by senior Canadian government officials.
"CAW is going to have to realize that Chrysler has to be cost competitive with Toyota and Honda, not just Ford and GM," Industry Minister Tony Clement said Wednesday.
Speaking on CTV's Power Play, Lewenza disputed the dollar numbers that Fiat was using and said he was "surprised by the comments."
"I'd like to talk to Sergio (Marchionne) and ask him where he got those numbers," he said. "I'm disputing those numbers."
The Italian automaker has emerged as Chrysler's best hope for survival after both American and Canadian governments told the company it would not provide a bailout loan until it came up with a satisfactory long-term restructuring plan.
"Absolutely we are prepared to walk. There is no doubt in my mind," Marchionne told the Globe from Fiat headquarters in Turin. "We cannot commit to this organization unless we see light at the end of the tunnel."
He said as of now, there is a 50 per cent chance the partnership agreement will go through.
Chrysler has 15 days left to reach a deal with Fiat that would satisfy the federal governments.
A non-binding agreement reached between the two companies in January gives Fiat a 35 per cent stake in Chrysler.
Fiat is not investing money into the company but instead is giving Chrysler access to its successful platforms for small cars and access to fuel-efficent, eco-friendly technology for engines. In exchange, Fiat would gain access to the North American market.
If Chrysler fails to form a partnership with Fiat, the company will go bankrupt and tens of thousands of jobs will be lost.
Tom LaSorda, Chrysler's president, said the company needs to cut its labour costs by about $20 an hour in order to compete with foreign automakers who also manufacture cars in Canada. Those who work in Canadian assembly plants manufacturing Japanese cars get paid around $47 an hour while those who work for North American manufacturers make around $76 an hour.
If labour costs can't be cut, LaSorda warned that Chrysler may have to shut down its operations in Canada.
CAW 'too tough'
Lewenza has said repeatedly that Chrysler's problems run deeper than the wages of the company's unionized workers and that it should look at other solutions to restructure the company effectively.
The CAW's position on negotiations is "too tough," according to Tony Faria, an auto industry analyst.
Faria, the co-director of the automotive research centre at the University of Windsor, said the CAW might be putting Canadian jobs at risk, particularly if Chrysler is able to reach a better deal with its unionized American workers.
I felt all along that the CAW has been too tough in their negotiations in Canada and that has lost us jobs in Canada to lower labour-cost countries," Faria said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
One of the concessions the American United Auto Workers union has made is to agree to a two-tier wage system where current employees retain their current wages but new hires will make significantly less in benefits and wages.
"If we ever get to a point in time where the North American market starts turning back up again ... they're going to be hiring back workers at a significantly lower rate based on the two-tier wage system now in effect at their plants in the U.S.," Faria said.
"That doesn't bode well for future auto assembly CAW jobs in Canada, and that's something the CAW just has to recognize: that it may be much, much better to have jobs at a little bit lower labour rate than to have no jobs whatsoever," he added.
With files from The Canadian Press and a report from CTV Toronto's Paul Bliss
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.


Please Add Comments( )
Roger T
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I hope Fiat does not come to Chrysler's rescue as it will only incur more debt loads from a dying brand.
Lets see how the Union will react to Fiat's demand now that the tides have turned.
This goes for the 2010 Olympics also, Harper snubbed the Beijing openning now it's the Chinese that will have the upper hands with the rich cash flow they have for investments. Day is on a begging spree to save Harper's gov't from free fall IF more people nad businesses are out of work.
When times are good you can't abuse your negotiation power because it can back fire at times of desparations.
Julie
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Rob - Winnipeg
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And don't give me that old CAW crap that you deserve 70 plus per hour. I've had 4 years of University training in the computer field and earn 33 per hour - which is damned good salary to live on.
To CAW - my final work is suck it up and take less - or go on EI when the company files for bankruptcy.
To Chrysler - if you can't operate in Ontario with the CAW - move your plants to Winnipeg Manitoba where I know you'll have thousnads of people begging for jobs at 30 dollars per hour.
Sunny in Sudbury
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The economy has changed significantly, we as workers must change as well.
Sean Calder - Chatham ON
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Ken Lewenza et al are trying to sell the idea that they're fighting to save jobs. What they're doing is cutting off their nose to spite their face.
This is the current reality: You can not continue as you have in the past. You claim that it has worked, but all it has done was ride the unusually long (and steep) climb of the markets as it's sole lifeline. The model has failed and is clearly unsustainable. You must bend, or you will be broken.
dan
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This is just what big business wants. They want everyone blaming everyone else for the situation they the BIG BUSINESS’ put us in. Blame Union workers and blame your neighbours. The more we blame each other the more BIG BUSINESS makes and the more we lose. Look at each other and see how we can all get together and help each other, not fight each other. Please.
Homer J
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I feel for the auto workers themselves, as they all work hard to make a great life for themselves and their family’s and unfortunately it looks like they will all be heading to the UI line behind thousands and thousands of other people all looking to fill the same jobs, which are not there any more.
What a devastating situation this has become.
Matt
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If the union is unreasonable and demands too much, economics will solve the problem.
Now we're left with the government unions, they'll just raise taxes and bankrupt us before they let go.
unfair
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Red X
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Roger, the People's Republic of China has been making and selling more cars in the past 3 months and the trending will continue as that economy expands. The Chinese will have to carry the debt of countries printing money like the U$ & Canada?!
Will protesters try to snuff out the Olympic flame for the way Canada treats it's indigenous people OR environment?
LS
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How does this relate to our PM not attending the Olympics in Bejing? The Chinese economy is hurting too and their Human Rights record is abysmal. Too many governments and businesses suck up because they are moral cowards.
Maybe it's time the government's in North America demand open access to foreign car markets. No cookie no dumpee here.
Bill Moyer Portage la Prairie
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Lee
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'negotiate' the demise of thousands and thousands of jobs which will affect us all in a terribly terribly negative way.
JP
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Joe C
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Shame.
Ted
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Best to get it over with and see what rises from the ashes.
The Widowmaker
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Denis
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Rob NS
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Without putting a dent in their own stuffed wallets. I think not, I'll buy an Fiat made in the US, no problem.
We do not forget the price gouge when the Canadian dollar was higher than the US, yet we still had to pay about 20% more for the same car! Where did the billions go from that gouge? Simple math, we can figure it out.
Sink or swim, Fiat may bail you out, but I certainly would not.
Stéphane
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Cherie
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Dean
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ik
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Bill white
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hm m m m makes one think doesn't it ?
My 2 Cents
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Dave
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wayne
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Canadian living in the US
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Assume a 40hour week, that would be $150K / year??
If this is indeed what they are making in Chrysler's assembly line, it is insane.
Scene
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As for the CAW situation, good luck to them and their dream world. Soon they are going to be living a night mare if they don't meet Fiat's demands. Lewenza get your act together, this is one battle your going to lose!
Andy Y - Vancouver
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Oh well if the company goes under the CAW will certainly be in the market for a new president...
I tend to agree that in the real world, $47/hr is a huge wage anywhere in the country, including Ontario...
Cambob
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Um... Is this guy the president of Chrysler, or a least a majority shareholder?
DJ
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Management for too many years has just given in because well they were making money and would make more with more sales. The problem is now people can’t buy cars and as a result car companies aren’t selling anything to pay the workers. The CBA’s that are in place force the car companies pretty much to pay the workers to stay home or pay them to be at work. What would you do? If I had to pay you anyway I may as well bring you in.
Second the unions keep going for more and more when they did not have any right to do so. Just because a company makes money does not give you any right to it. Your workers are getting fair return for the work they are being asked to complete.
What is needed are the car companies and the unions to work together. Imagine that! All they need to do is come to an agreement that right now during the lean times they will accept lower wages and in return when things start to turn around they will start to give back to the members.
I used to work in a manufacturing plant. We had the CAW and they would not allow any concessions and would not negotiate any reduction in wages. Those jobs all disappeared.
In the end the company will be able to survive and if the new synergy gets into a place they can start to return some of the pay back to the workers.
The sense of entitlement needs to stop. Just because a company makes a profit does not mean that you the worker deserves a raise. Do you make a decent living for the area you work? Is it a reasonable standard of living? Then call it a day! Your company is allowed to make money and intern you get some job stability.
Tim Kroeker
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Fiat wants Chrysler employees to drop about 40 percent of their earnings (salary and benefits combined). I wonder if Mr. Marchionne has calculated what 40 percent of his earnings would be and that under his demands he would be dropping about US$2,689,898.43 from his annual pay cheque.
I think it is amusing that Fiat, a company that has a long history of financial crisis and poor performing vehicles, whose CEO has a salary higher than the combined CEO salaries of GM and Ford, says that Chrysler workers make too much money.
Perhaps before he starts throwing stones Mr. Marchionne should check the sealant around the windows of his glass house.
union MUST change to adapt
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I cannot understand why the "brothers and sisters" do not take a good size pay cut to save their jobs NOW, then ask for more when things turn around. Kenny and the gang could look like they were the ones that saved the industry and use that leverage for bargining down the road...I guess Kenny is from the old school of unions...demand, demand, demand...then target and threats.
Sunny in Sudbury
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The unions were instrumental for workplace safety and the minimization of nepetism. However, the pendulum has swung too far the other way.
Greed has got the best of them, look at the $5,000,000.00 retreat the CAW has in Port Elgin, Ontario, not necessary. How much is Lewenza'a salary?
There has to be balance in salaries, quality of goods, company expectations and market conditions. This applies to all on the employment chain. There are several companies in Ontario that provide a quality product, excellent work environment and life balance. One company is Campbell Soup. They must be doing something right.
Steve the Pundit
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Do you REALLY think that, by digging in your heels you're going to save all these union jobs (including yours)?
The writing is on the wall; all governments in US and Canada have said "Make a deal with Fiat before the end of the month or you're DONE!" The providers of the current lifeline are on record as saying "current wage concessions are not enough."
I know you THINK you're showing yourself to be a strong leader, that you THINK you are protecting union jobs, and that you THINK you are "in the right". But THINK about this: Do you and your members want to be IN THE RIGHT, or EMPLOYED? Because it sure looks like you can't have both.
Do the right thing Ken; go back to the table and work day and night with management to try and save this company and your union brothers from the unemployment line.
Bob London
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L.C.
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my husband has worked for Chrysler for 25+ years.HE DOES NOT MAKE $70.00 PER HOUR! He makes the same as any Toyota worker which is $33.00/hour give or take a buck.He pays enough taxes on that salary supporting programs run by this government that he does not benefit from(welfare, child bonuses, social assistance for newcomers,etc.)Why does our government spend billions of our tax $$ of Afghanistan trying to fix something that seems a waste of time.In Canada, we don't stone women protestors, legalize rape or ban them from school yet taxpayers believe supporting this country in a war is not to be questioned, yet investing in jobs in our own country is just simply a waste of taxpayer money?Who are auto industry analists to question the integrity of auto workers -- they probably don't even get their hands dirty at any given time.They don't work that assembly line in 120 degree weather, they are not declined to use washroom facilities when they need to go, they do not get fired if they have an emergency at home or a child is sick and they can't make it to work. How dare any of these people commenting say that these workers don't earn or deserve their $33.00/hour as Toyota workers get. As for pensions, I'd gladly take a 50% cut of what Rick Wagner got. As for the CAW or any union, there is a reason for their existence. What would minimum wage really be in this province? Who lives on minimum wage anyway?The big question isFiat is stating that they will close plants but don't have the balls to say which ones. Why would any of these workers cut their own throats?
jake
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John from TO
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They make about 35 an hour. The rest is benifits and pension. So they make 2 bucks an hour more than you do and didnt have to go to university. if you have a big benifit package like they do, then your probably making almost 75 bucks an hour as well.
LC, Brampton
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My husband is employed by Chrysler for 25+ years.
Paycheck - $33.00/hour (Less a large portion to Mr. Harper and his thugs)and same as my niece who works for Toyota at $33.00 /hour.
so...
$33.00 - $20.00/hour required cut = $13.00 per hour. hmm. almost minimum wage.....that's gonna make our economy spin - I think I'll go out and buy a top of the line Lincoln or give my financial advisor an increase in his pay!
c'mon can the media PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE publish a workers paystament to shut these nominds up.
Fed up of whinning in Alberta
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Buck- Niagara
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Jim in Edmonton
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Steve in Ottawa
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nancy
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Prof. Pye Chartt
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"The cut would whittle their wages down to $55 an hour - the rate Toyota and Honda workers make in the U.S."
_______________
My goodness! What's an uneducated, “overpaid” assembly-line worker to do (along with any family or friends they foolishly encouraged to board the gravy train)?!
Yes. Yes. Yes. I know, it's true, the executive management at the "Big Three" are principally responsible for the demise of the North American auto industry; not the unions. I agree.
However, our economy cannot continue to be expected to thrive on the back of "old-school" industries that over-value UNSKILLED labor. Those days are over. Developing nations are taking most of the pie.
Collectively, we need to wake up and realize that it's not 1980.
The UAW/CAW best be careful not to "fight" its way into immediate extinction.
Roger T
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We Autoworkers have pride. No way we are going to work for $55/hour. That is slave wage. We rather starve than give in to the Auto indrustries....
Stupidity sometimes overrides common sense or wit. When you and your family lose your home and on the verge of living on the streets, perhaps you can beg for a job from GM, I mean Fiat!
Miramichi Kid
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Lee
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D.K.
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No one is wanting to lower the 33 to 35 dollars an hour your hubby makes. What we object to are the SPA days, free legal service if he decides to divorce you , free pension plan. Those are some of the cost that inflates the hourly wages and benefits to 75 bucks per hour.
Dave
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Don
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Bruce
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Now for a 40 hrs work week
$74 x 40hr/wk = $2960 per week.
$2960/wk X 52wk/yr = $153 920 gross
Your telling me that someone working the line screwing in bolts and other pre fab auto parts without a highschool diploma can make more than a doctor with 9+ years of post secondary education!!!
Thats got to be the worlds craziest deal, I mean the CAW must have had incriminating evidence against the automakers in order to get that kind of salary.
No wonder their cars cost so much and fall apart in no time. The company (obviously) can't make a good car charge a reasonable price for it and pay its employees at the same time.
Honestly even with the pay cut to $55/hr they will still get $114 000 gross salary per year! THATS STILL WAY TOO MUCH!!
Honestly the salary should be no higher than $55 000 per year ($26/hr) AND THAT'S MORE THAN GENEROUS!! Do they realise how many Canadians(just as hard working or even harder working) with the same (and a lot of times) or MORE education make a lot less than they do. They need a reality check and if the North American automakers go under, then the employees will have more than their fair share for causing it.
Honestly this is an insane salary! I only wish I could make that much, and I have a university degree that I paid for by myself working a low paying job going to university and working hard through high school. Maybe I should have left school during grade 9 with the "cool" kids and worked for one of the big 3.
kate
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Dave
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dan
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I stand by my comments and no I do not work for any of the BIG 3. Yes I did read the article and where does it say management should take more of a cut as well? Did you read Tim Kroeker’s comment? Perhaps if he CEO’s would start taking life altering pay cuts then I might agree to the CAW doing so as well.
When do we take a stand and protect that what the companies agreed to in a legally binding contract? It’s funny how everyone says the Unions have to agree to concessions despite having contracts but when BIG BUSINESS is told to do so they claim they can’t due ot their legally binding contract.
Matt in Calgary
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A responsible union is one which is concerned with not only its members but also the common good.
The powers of unions (i.e. CAW, Teachers Union,Nurses Union,...etc.) need to be curtailed significantly.
RE: Sunny in Sudbury
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I never said Unions were perfect. I was simply pointing out how some managers treat employees incorrectly and if this guy did not have a Union he would not even be able to fight back. Do you think it is right that a manager can control when a person drinks or goes to the washroom?
Terry, Drayton ON
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I wish you all could hear the laughs around here, "$55.00 an hour! Where the heck do I sign!".
When is the CAW, and unions in general, going to realize they have "striked" themselves out of existence and their back stabbing and black mailing ways are a leading cause of death for their employers. These greedy folk have killed the geese that laid their golden eggs. And they have no one to blame but themselves.
Bailouts with government money, taxed from people who don't earn even close to half of what these autoworkers do, and then back stop their warranties with even more tax dollars besides!
Tax the poor to feed the overpaid autoworkers! Where the hell does this madness end?
Both Chrysler and GM can rest assured that I will never buy any of their products again. Never again. I will also encourage anyone who asks me to do the same. Nothing but a pack of greedy, spoiled, corporate welfare bums are all Chysler and GM are at this point. Same goes for the CAW.
Don't forget that despite the current economic problems both Chyrsler and GM have been dying a slow death for a long time. The bottom line is they can't sell their cars because nobody wants to buy them anymore.
Let 'em croak. In the long run it will be the best thing for the Canadian manufacturing industry.
RE: union MUST change to adapt
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I stand by my comments and no I do not work for any of the BIG 3. Yes I did read the article and where does it say management should take more of a cut as well? Did you read Tim Kroeker’s comment? Perhaps if he CEO’s would start taking life altering pay cuts then I might agree to the CAW doing so as well.
When do we take a stand and protect that what the companies agreed to in a legally binding contract? It’s funny how everyone says the Unions have to agree to concessions despite having contracts but when BIG BUSINESS is told to do so they claim they can’t due ot their legally binding contract.
Matt in Calgary
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If you factor in:
1) hourly wage
2) time off
3) medical and dental benefits
4) pension
5) maternity leave
The cumulative cost of the above is....you got it.... $70+ an hour. Another way of looking at is this. For me to have the same standard of living (based on take home pay), have the same medical/dental benefits, have six weeks of vacation a year and retire with a fat pension at 55......I would need to be paid $70+ an hour over the course of my 35 years of employment.
Very simple.
DW in Vancouver
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That is why unions are no longer of any use to any one but the executive board.
Jon in Burl.
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Fiat ia absolutely right in its demands of Chrysler.
I wonder what Mr Lewenzia makes a year? I wonder what happened to all the union dues that have been paid over the years?
It kills me to say it Mr. McGuinty is right in not meeting there pension wishes. These workers didn't contribute dime one and I see no reason to bail out them out. Welcome to my world people of the CAW. I have no pension, with the exception of my RRSP's and that took a 35% hit...No Bail Out for me either.
Chris in Toronto
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Terry - Drayton ON
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"Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign."
Now how about this one, as an updated replacement:
"Out of a job yet? Keep voting union."
Ryan In Calgary
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I'll take your slave wage any day then. Maybe I'll drop some McDonald's by your feet while you starve, unless you're too proud for that.
incredulous in B.C.
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Unemployed non-union hardworker needing job
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Paul in Ajax
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So please guys, if you want to lay blame, try and get the right guys. And hey, anybody here aware that Chrysler is supposed to give out millions more in retention bonuses in August?
Rob
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Gord
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Over time however,the union there grew out of control just like the CAW appears to be doing and the mine closed and everyone lost their jobs and house prices in our one employer town went into the toilet. Much like what's happening in Windsor now.
Unions were never meant to drive the employer out of town or out of Canada.
If the CAW persists, Chrysler will simply withdraw from Canada, manufacture in the U.S under the two wage tier system in line with Toyota and Honda costs and export to Canada. And tough guy Ken Lewenza will face the wrath of dazed and unemployed former Chrysler workers once they wake up to the consequences of their union's hari kari tactics has led to all of their woe. I also predict Windsor will become an pariah among companies wishing to expand in Ontario and Canada. Who would want to invest and start up a business in Windsor with such tough guy unions around that will stop at nothing to get their way. And with so many other hungry towns with reasonable unions looking for industries to start up there.
On the other hand I see a bright spot and opportunity. Windsor as the next Elliot Lake retirement mecca perhaps, with rock bottom real estate prices, with no summer blackflies and mesquitoes and mild winters?
Andy Y - Vancouver
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Your husband may be paid $33/hr (still quite high for a manufacturing job) however what you are not seeing is that all the "free" benefits he has, make up the remaining $43/hr. That is what Fiat sees. If it were just about his hourly rate there wouldn't be a problem, except it isn't.
Since each employee gets the same benefits, the cost of those benefits per employee are the same. It is commonly known as a "shop rate".
As for the Fiat CEO's salary, well that may include the stock options he gets as well as some sort of bonus for keeping the company solvent during the crisis, unlike 2 of the big 3 automakers.
Now I said earlier Chrysler may fall. Actually, in reality Chrysler Canada may fall. The company may just as well close the Canadian plants and move everything down South. The Yankees would welcome the jobs. This would kill them as a Canadian brand, but hey they have a market 10 times our size to concentrate on, so they probably won't loose that much in the long run...
The reality of big business. Unions can't keep a business' doors open, only close them with short sighted thinking.
Josepf
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Doug
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Unions still think that they are entitled to their entitlements.
For their families sake, I hope they take less money and keep their jobs.
If they want to remain "entitled" it will cost them a lot more money to go back to school to become a teacher!!!
Not a high paid work in Mississauga
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JC in Ottawa
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Problem is NOT CAW, but the awful cars GM/Chrysler/Ford offers (I buy a new N.A. car every 2 years, and each was a piece of junk. No more American cars for me)
Steve the Pundit
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As for "L.C.": I'm sorry your husband "only" earns $33 / hour (give or take a buck). That translates to $68,640 / year (give or take a few bucks) just in wages. I would assume overtime (when the plants are running it) and shift premium is over and above?
Factor in the following:
- automatic Cost of Living Adjustment
- 3 weeks minimum paid vacation
- medical benefits with minimal co-pay
- dental
- pension plan
- education reimbursement
- etc.
Conservatively, that's got to be worth between $75 and $80k a year for what is, basically, unskilled labor. I know a lot of university grads with complex degrees that are earning nowhere near that.
Yes L.C., your husband occasionally works in 120 degree heat. I'll bet a lot of others would work for way less, even in those conditions.
And if you mean to tell me that the CAW wouldn't immediately jump to the defense of any worker who was fired for the reasons you cite...then why is the union taking a piece of worker earnings as dues?
Sorry, I'm not at all sympathetic.
Looking for a job
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I'll be happy working at Chrysler or any other auto plant for $13/hr or even minimum wage if they would hire me just to assemble parts. I guess if I know some senior union friends inside, I could get $33/hr. Can your husband refer me? I don't think I need to be an Einstein, right?
A.H. Kingston
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Steve
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Lewenza should be FIRED for even thinking about sacrificing all those jobs (and livelihoods!) for being such a stubborn a$$!
WestofTheRockies
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Who cares!...... It's too late. Wake up! The ship is going down & it doesn’t matter how the deck chairs were arranged yesterday. Save yourselves….. jump into the Fiat lifeboat before it sails away!!!
Either you give in and have job or you don't and you are outa work. Pretty simple but I must concede a bit too complicated for empty barrels like your true leader Buzz and his mouthpiece Kenny.
If I was P.M. I would up the ante. You don't accept wage cutbacks you don't get E.I.! Why should the rest of working Canadians be forced to pay for your stupid decisions?
Sean Calder - Chatham ON
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Give up some benefits. Give up some perks. Give up some stuff that you don't really use or need. That can go a LONG way towards that $20 figure.
CAW - Get real or get lost !
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...see a pattern here CAW workers? The posh uber high wage days are behind you.
Either get real or get lost!
Moncton Fella
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Let the CAW present numbers and Chrysler present theirs and then have a 3rd party oversee a secret ballot vote.
If the CAW is out of touch with the workers, then the workers can decertify the union and accept Chrysler's offer.
OTOH, if they feel the union is representing them adequately, the vote will fail and the CAW can continue to take the lead in negotiating for the workers.
It's very simple and more productive than the union, government and automaker bashing that seems to be filling this thread.
Rick in NS
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GP
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They are talking about total cost of the employee, not-just the hourly wage.
FYI, $33/hr is a completely ridiculous wage for unskilled labour... getting mad won't change that. I suggest you brace yourself for reality.
Brandy Howard
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If they wanted to make more money and have kids,they should have thought of obtaining an education.
What did you expect to make with nothing but grade 12?
Many others without an education make minimum wage.
It doesn't take a genius to do this work.It's tedious,I'm sure,that's why you should make more than minimum wage,but definitely not over $70 an hr,with benefits in.
$20 an hr.sounds fair.
Darth Vader
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Aaron in Brampton
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Consumers Distributors went bust no big deal
Miracle Mart / Pascals / Eatons / Byway / Simpsons and too many more to name...No Big Deal. Just today Conquest Vacations closed its doors after 37 years.
As the economy shrinks the weak players just Die Off and the leaner and stronger survive to continue.
If Chrysler cant make it there are 25 Car companies around the world that will Rush in to fill the void WITHOUT using our Tax dollars. They will buy the factories ; hire workers at reasonable non union rates and provide us with great cars.
Same goes for GM.
Actually it seems like the Chinese Car companies are eyeing and positioning themselves to pick up the pieces when it all goes down.
Rob
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Did you have to go to University to learn how to push a button on a machine designed by an Engineer who had to go to school?
Did they have to learn a trade at all to learn which button to push?
I'm not saying that all autoworkers are mindless automations, but the value of work that is being done is based on legacy work and inflation.
No wonder a car costs so much, never mind that there is so much markup involved in the materials.
Get a grip, you're doing a $15/hr a job for 2.5x the rate plus benefits you don't deserve. Being part of a union shouldn't give you entitlements equivalent to people that EARNED their place by getting a higher education!
tony scheller
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Tony.
Alex (Toronto)
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John in London
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..... couldn't have said it better myself. The sad thing is ... these are the real attitudes of these auto workers.
And they wouldnt even have to take any pay cut at all ... they could chop $20/hour out of their benefits and would still have better benefits and pensions than most people in the country (excluding the unions like CUPE that suckle at the public teet).
Dave Ont East
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Gord
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DaveEast
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Each and every auto worker DESERVES the fate that awaits him or her, for not finally throwing off their shackles and liberating themselves from these anti-job, economy killing demagogues. The CAW needs to be decertified. Nothing less will stop these idealogues from totally destroying the auto sector.
Shawn
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Jack
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That's obscene! No wonder North American Automakers are in trouble!
Bruce from Washington
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Bob
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Chrysler parts suppliers will have to cut prices.
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Hi, I'm useless and jealous of auto workers.
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Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
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John
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Chrysler produces junk that nobody wants to buy . Period.
The same goes for GM & Chrysler.
Get rid of all of the Unions & start over with Japanese management.
FergusRob
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CAW has it back up against the wall, it has virtually no public support and members are loosing their jobs. Not the mention the stress the lucky ones to be still working must have not knowing if they are going to have jobs in the next few months.
RIP Chryler, it has been a good run.
Annoyed
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Barbara
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And oh, the next vehicle I buy will be, as always, a pre-owned, built in North America, something or other that is not worth the new price five minutes after you sign the papers and drive it off the lot. For that matter they are not worth the new price just sitting in the showroom.
Peter Wiebe
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Keith in Brampton
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Can't speak for everyone, but I don't HATE unions - or at least the concept of them. They have historically contributed greatly to workers' rights and society generally.
BUT... some unions - and the CAW is apparently one - get so drunk with power that they lose sight of their purpose (to create fair and equitable workplaces where members are treated with dignity and respect and earn a decent living, working IN PARTNERSHIP with the employer) and would rather DESTROY a company than make the concessions needed to save jobs and (incidentally) the company.
A Union out of control is every bit as bad as a company that screws over its workers. And as Lewenza is so seriously out of touch with reality that he would jeopardize every single one of his members' jobs at Chrysler rather than renegotiate, then the CAW definitely ranks as being out of control.
Yes, there are many things wrong with Chrysler beyond labour costs. And yes, a reduction in those costs, in and of themselves, won't save the company. But all indications are the company CAN'T be saved WITHOUT concessions by the labour force.
At this point, only a fool would side with Lewenza.
Unions are no longer needed
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Brad
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While reading the comments against the union I feel sorry for for everyone who thinks when the unions are gone our standard of living will improve, guess again. Good manuacturing jobs provide the basis for a higher standard of living for all.
James -Eh!
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Why would FIAT put money into Chrysler knowing that their labour costs are out of wack? They won't.
As for the Ontario Gov. bailing out their pensions, what about the poor folk who don't have a pension? If the defined benefit plans are under funded, that means the pensioners are being paid from operations, that is from the billions obtained from government. Maybe the members should start contributing like everyone else with a pension plan. That would help lower total labour costs.
Sick of Unions whinning!!!
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JD
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When are they going to wake up and smell the coffe
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That union leader should be voted out! The union members should have some common sense to understand that nobody would feel sorry for them if they don't cut more!
This whole thing is going on way too long. Both Government and citizens want it ended as soon as possible - one way or another!
Dreamers are also welcome to get the line up for their E.I.
Time for the union members to SPEAK UP AND MAKE THEIR FINAL DECISION!!!Life goes on!!!!!
Sean
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The employees have negotiated their way out of their jobs.
It is crazy to think that they wouldn't make the necessary concessions.
The majority of the employees will never see equal or better paying jobs ever again...They were under worked any over paid, and they are as much to blame as the management.
There has to be a balance between what employees are worth and what they are paid.
This isn't unique to the Auto industry, look at TTC bus drivers...They are way over paid for what they do, but they hold the city hostage during negotiations...maybe that sector should be privatized...not by GM or Chrysler though.
It's too bad because they are good people, and a lot of folks will suffer over this.
Doug BC
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I usually support unions and buy close to home from people who create jobs in Canada.But these guys are beyond the pale.
I can barely manage to support loans to save the companies,and the jobs that go with them.But in NO WAY can I condone that if they have to keep paying their assembley line people so much more than most other semi skilled people earn.
It will be regretable to see these people use up such huge portions of our EI funds.But certainly likley to be cheaper thatn paying them to build vehicles for which there is no market.
Chapter 11, for GM.I think it will be Chapter 7 for Chrysler.
Very unfortunate for a whole lot of people.
dmac
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Toronto
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krissyt
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Ice Cream
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Rob
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Buck
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trimmer 905
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No Sympathy
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These unskilled jokers have had it too good for way too long. In these times it's all about being competitive and efficient. Unions, especially the CAW, don't care about in either one.
The bottom line in the real world is "if you're not happy with your job, go get a better one". Holding your employer over a barrel may work for a while when times are good, but it never works when times are tough.
It looks like my next new vehicle will not be from the "big 3". Bye Bye.
Lyle
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Chris Ont
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Total compensation paid for labour divided by total hours worked by labour creates an average hourly wage.
When stateing this must be cut by $20.00 hour, does not mean that you would be earning $13.00/hour.
You may need to go to $30.00/hr along with giving up paid day's, maybe required to now have to co-pay for certain health benifits.
Spa day's may need to be cancelled as well, and maybe some changes to your pension plan funding.
With less taxable benifits and paying less taxes chances are good your take home pay would not be that different than now.
Believing you are forced to work in deplorable conditions as well as having to adhere to rules that seem unfair, remember that it was your union that while demanding raises sold out on getting you more toilet breaks. Having seen the inside of a few auto plants, on average to walk to the washroom and return at $33.00 an hour cost the company between $8-$9 dollars.
Hourly cost when benifit costs are included at $70.00 is between $17-$18 dollars. If most workers on a shift took one extra bathroom break a day, it could bankrupt the company.
Is it possible what caused this problem was people just pissed them away so to speak?
Winny
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No one is asking to cut your overpaid husband's hourly rate. The cuts that are being asked for are related to benefits. The $70 an hour cost per employee includes salary + benefits.
Good luck to you and your family at the food bank. If the CAW does not move from its stance your husband WILL lose his job. The rest of Canada will NOT be in any mood to support CAW workers. Good luck finding another job when the economy picks up. If the auto industry leaves, I won't be surprised if employees will be reluctant to hire any former CAW workers.
James in Edmonton
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Mike in Guelph
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Business Math 101
No one assembling a car, building parts for a car or shipping car parts to a factory makes $153k a year. Give your head a shake, smarten up and stop mouthing off about things you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT!!! Do some bloody research before you spout off stupidity like this and stop wasting EVERYONE'S TIME - you make yourself and everyone else dumber for such comments.
REALITY:
Wages = $28/hr on average (I said average remember - look it up if you think I'm wrong)
Loaded cost of an in-house employee is added to the base salary and is typically 1.5-1.8x the base salary. This figure includes health benefits, pensions, WSIB, costs of employing people that the EMPLOYER pays, not the employee = LOTS in the automotive industry, in this case, it's around $42 an hour.
Yes, the unions are responsible for asking for these kinds of concessions and company management are responsible for not negotiating better.
No unions won't fix the problem but it will help IMHO. Having better union relations with companies is key with realistic and FAIR working conditions and compensation. This is greed on all sides, plain and simple. We've all lived WELL beyond our means and it's time for a BIG correction and a wake up call.
The $19 an hour concession is a reduction in pensions and benefits combined with lower hourly wages. $28 an hour is a decent wage overall for unskilled labour. Sorry, it is. Simply put. It's hard work but so is general contracting, landscaping and the like - all of which pay NO WHERE NEAR $28 an hour. 1/2 that and you're in the ballpark. Just my 2c.
Don
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Richard Carpenter
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Tim Oshawa
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I think the CAW has been living quite well over the years.
Mr Lewenza ..How's IE sound to you ? It's coming sooner then you think..
Ron in Edmonton
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These uneducated, over-paid, whining CAW workers think that $55.00 per hour is too low?? What reality do they live in? Get with the real world people. You're not that important. If the CAW thinks that "its got to be tough" when the wages are "slashed" to $55/hour, then in reality, I do hope that the whole Canadian and American auto industry goes belly up. You get what you deserve ... and lets see how long you last on EI.
Green McLander
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You have made your point about the union workers' wages. We get it cystal CLEAR!
However... how the workers make isn't the problem. It's the benefits, the legeny costs and whatever IS the problem!! I don't care if your husband make $10, 30, or 35 per hour. THAT is NOT the point. I don't care how you defend in whatever your husband did good in his job. It's the UNION itself that did themselves into their dismise because they kept jacking up all their requests, demeands or new contracts the Big 3 in Canada don't like but are forced to keep up with production.
Well, it's over - CAW have hit their limit. There's nothing to contiune, as long the CAW refuse to change its character to be humble to save their jobs.
Well, won't be long before we see Chysler and GM move back to USA - eh? I refuse to buy NEW vechiles for 24 years because of high prices anyway, and their designs are boring - no vision in there.
Lee
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Ian in Peterborough
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PVT
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Shelley from Tillsonburg
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Unions were great when workers were forced to work 18 hour days in the dark without breaks, meals, or proper sanitation. Haven't heard any reports of that lately in Canada.
$40+ an hour to build cars..you wonder why we can't afford them. Why do people in the health care field make the same as auto manufacturers?
To those running the CAW and to those who speak for the thousands of workers...Who will pay dues (your wages) when GM and Chrysler are gone? Maybe the days of making $85,000 a year to bolt in seats are gone. That should not come as a surprise.
You say you have the worker's interests in mind as you walk away from the negotiating table. Your workers will be able to relate. They might be walking away from the supper table wondering where their next meal will come from.