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Nicholson to kill two-for-one prison-time credit ASAP
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Wed. Mar. 25 2009 3:34 PM ET
The Conservative government announced plans Wednesday to end the "two-for-one" credit judges often grant convicted criminals for time spent in pre-trial custody.
Justice Minister Rob Nicholson told reporters he expects the proposed legislation to be passed as quickly as possible, noting it has "widespread support."
"We've had urgings from people across this country, provincial attorneys general, groups that would like to see this move (forward), and if this new-found interest from the opposition parties to fight crime in this country is sincere, I want to see this move as quickly as possible," Nicholson said in Ottawa.
The actual legislation is expected to be tabled on Friday.
The two-for-one credit system aims to compensate for so-called "dead time" criminals spend in overcrowded detention centres that do not have rehabilitation programs or many of the amenities of long-term prison housing.
Critics who want the credit to end argue that some prisoners abuse the system by trying to stretch their pre-trial time to cut their time behind bars later.
Nicholson said the proposal would put an end to that practice, and speed up the administration of justice.
"I think this will have the effect of unclogging the courts. I think individuals or their solicitors will not find it to their advantage to have continuous delays or adjournments and so I think this will help move the process forward," he said.
CTV's Roger Smith, reporting from Ottawa, said Wednesday that the Tory legislation will likely have the support of the Liberals.
NDP members also say they will also support the legislation, but indicate they want exceptions made for those being housed in the worst jails.
Prominent lawyers protest
But many lawyers have slammed the proposed legislation.
Clayton Ruby, one of Canada's leading defence lawyers, called Canadian detention centres "hellholes" and "a humiliation."
Ruby said the holding centres are extremely overcrowded and prisoners are waiting much too long for trial.
"The rule was a good rule developed by the courts to alleviate the hardships of what we are doing to (those awaiting trial)," he told CTV News.
Ruby said the real solution is to ensure a speedy trial.
"To do that we have to provide more facilities... more judges, more courts," he said. "(But) Mr. Nicholson is not providing a penny for that."
Irvin Waller, founding director of the Institute for the Prevention of Crime at the University of Ottawa, said the legislation is just another example of politicians being tough on criminals and not on crime.
"We don't see here a federal-provincial plan to really reduce the number of victims, we just see tinkering with one small part of the system," Waller told CTV's Canada AM on Wednesday.
If passed, Waller said he expects to see offenders serving longer sentences and more people behind bars.
"That means that we will be paying more of our taxes for after-the-fact solutions to crime instead of investing in the things that would reduce the number of gang-related homicides, the number of women assaulted, the number of robberies," he said.
The two-for-one system came under fire recently when the father of a kidnapping victim expressed his anger when his son's kidnappers had their sentences reduced by six years due to the two-for-one credit.
Robert McMynn's son, Graham, then 24, was abducted at gunpoint in April 2006 and spent eight terrifying days in captivity before being rescued from a Surrey, B.C. home.
Still, the two-for-one credit is not a requirement. For example, the judge in the case of convicted terrorist Momin Khawaja did not give out a two-for-one credit.
But Canada's criminal code says that judges may take pre-trial custody into account and that discretion has become a near-standard practice, backed up by support from various appeal courts.
The government legislation would take away the judge's discretion, but some believe that longer sentences given out under the bill could be subject to a Charter of Rights challenge.
CTV legal analyst Steven Skurka called the legislation a "huge mistake."
"If there is a problem, and I don't accept that there is one, the answer is to pour more money into the justice system and to get in-custody trials on sooner," Skurka said.
He said the legislation would put huge demands on the justice system.
"I don't think this has been thought through at all," he said.
"It sounds like it's been decided on anecdotes rather than empirical studies."
With a report from CTV's Roger Smith
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.


Comments are now closed for this story
Carole Davis
said
Greg Oshawa
said
We are far too soft on criminals and seem to completely forget the victims. Punishment is suppose to be just that punishment! Enough with the bleeding heart Liberals and NPD (who are even worst on crime) if we need to built new jails, then so be it!
Frunk
said
BrianB
said
Bob in Lewisporte
said
I a perverted way it was rewarding the scum for committing the crime in the first place.
DRH
said
Good job Mr. Harper.
Mario - Rockland
said
John Jacobson
said
John
said
Bruce
said
Cale
said
Ken
said
Helen
said
Darryl
said
PB_ Toronto
said
Stu, Toronto
said
Amenities? Why should prisoners receive amenities? Television, activity rooms, *normal day-to-day* things should not be a part of prison life. They took away another person's dignity and rights, in most cases, so they should have theirs taken away if convicted. Jail is not a holiday.
AB in AB
said
David, Woodbridge
said
I know there are a lot of so-called law-and-order types ready to pounce, and scary ones ready to cut off the hand that steals a loaf of bread, so let's have it.
Peter, Hamilton
said
Subby in ON
said
Now, if only they had the brains and courage to legalize drugs...
Larry Lefty - Canal
said
SS
said
Barry O'Regan
said
Barry O'Regan
British Columbia
Mike
said
Great Move... Next Steps?
said
Here is something else to consider; the abolition of early parole. That would mean that, for example, a 12 year sentence for manslaughter is exactly that; 12 years. Receiving early release for expected behaviour is not something that is condusive to punishment for a crime. Rewarding expected behavour is absurd. Should the inmante not behave then time should be added to the sentence instead.
It'll never fly, but does it not make a great deal of sense?
Remember, the first and foremost purpose of incarceration should always be punishment for wrong doings.
Sharon
said
Jim in Edmonton
said
Jimbo
said
About time!
I fail to see why your birthday counts as 2 days of jail time! Same as X-mas etc.
My sister-in-law is a prison guard and it makes her sick at the benefits people in prison get. Special religious treatment etc.
Your in jail to pay back a debt to society and to be punished for your crimes. Why these folks are rewarded with tv, university degrees, 3 warm meals etc is beyond me!
I have nearly bankrupted myself paying for myself and a family to provide all the best life can offer...its tough being a single-income family! Then I see coke dealers getting house arrest and they make a hell of alot more money than me! With no worries of lasting consequences!
Maybe I should change careers, become a seedy dealer and if I go to jail I can come out with an MBA paid for with your tax $$$!!!
Who's the REAL victims here!
Samual
said
GTA
said
Red Deer Joe
said
JW
said
Gregory Boudreau
said
Marion in the Creek
said
Matt
said
1. It keeps the rest of us safe, they can't hurt us from jail.
2. Punishment/Revenge for what they did. You can argue about the deterant effects.
I'd love to prevent more crime, but I want real solutions.
And to those promoting more bans and laws to control things, what type of penalty will you have?
Fines are only punishment, they don't protect us. For dangerous criminals this leaves jail and I'd argue too many violent criminals get out far to early.
Brad
said
This is just another Conservative bill that will do nothing for the real problems that face our country.
Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON
said
The legal industry may whine about one of their "cash cows" being removed from their billing arsenal but taxpayers and law-abiding citizens are fed up with
"molly-coddling" criminals and the revolving door of the justice system!
Lets support our government going forward; if the Opposition tries to obstruct this legislation they do so at their peril come the next election!
Pro Patria
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
While this is a positive measure (CTV legal analyst Steven Skurka is certainly missing the mark) that deserves the multi-party support it's getting, the fact remains that our justice system still can't process criminal activity in a timely manner, and with judicial results that mirror the wishes of the people.
We're still stuck with too many "liberal" judges who have too much discretion in sentencing. The ultimate consequence for the commission of a crime isn't enough to send any type of deterring message.
The accused have a right to a speedy trial, and the people have a right to protective justice. The current system fails in both regards.
Given that conservative politicians (the only ones with a genuine ideological concern over this issue) have been unable to cut out the liberal rot that plagues our justice system, due largely to the misguided opposition of Liberals and NDP, it's time to consider electing judges and wrestling control from government.
Meanwhile, Canadians need to make crime and punishment a more central issue before, during, and after elections...if they want the system to change.
RobO
said
People who commit a crime should lose all the rights under the charter. The reason for this - They took someone else's rights.
Good on all the parties that support this bill.
TC
said
Gadget
said
Cory
said
Bob in Renfrew
said
Dr. James Bradford
said
Canadians are pleased with this move to hold criminals accountable. Now... let's go after the Montreal based Mafia and Hells Angels in this country and send them a message that Canada is not theirs to destroy with drugs and other sundry criminal acts.
Gee
said
GM
said
Nick in Gatineau
said
But......
What happens in the event that someone is tried as an adult, found guilty, and then aquitted at sentencing ?
That credit works in both ways. It works in favor of the accused and gives his lawyers time to ensure that the accused is indeed guilty; but it also helps the prosecution to avoid needless lawsuits in the future because of this type of scenario.
What happens 20 or 30 years later when that offence is still on record and has worked against him or her for that entire period ? Simply because an administrative person failed to fill out the proper box on a piece of paper.
How can that person defend themselves and get compensation they deserve ?
How much does it cost to have that blackmark removed ?
Abuse means that there are other issues such as Not enough Jails, sentences are not adequate for the crimes committed, time spent going to trial is too long, lax documentation from either side, etc...
Compensation based on past work experience doesn't cut it.
Do not forget that the law can ruin someone's life just as fast as making a stupid mistake. And all it takes is an accusation. Nothing more.
Jon
said
When a rapist/thief/violent offender sit in "dead time/2-4-1" there is no treatment as they are unable to discuss their crime because they are often pleading not guilty to the crime they are in detention for.
A criminal cannot work on rehabilitation when they can't even admit they did it!
I suggest the laws change to make for a more efficient system. Go sit in a criminal court for a day and you will see a very slow moving system. Lawyers dilly dallying etc., 5 hour workdays, lots and lots of breaks some times up to 2 hours! The government needs to step in and set some strict rules about speeding up court, maybe not the trials, the pleas and remands
GWinnipeg
said
Frank
said
From somebody who works in the Criminal Justice field I am frustrated when a file takes me longer to prepare for the Crown then the sentence handed to the offender due to pretrial time. Then two months later I am doing the same charges up again on these same indiviudals!
The system is being abused and its about time it is stopped.
Thank you Mr. Harper and thank you to the Liberals for supporting this bill it will make crime more accountable and keep criminals off our streets.
G. Gravelle, Ottawa, Ontario
said
Renee
said
Jim Pickering
said
You never spoke truer words.
Tom
said
slawson, jon
said
Matt
said
I don't like the idea of the judges ruling in accordance with public opinion instead of the facts and details of the case.
I think self regulating system with some oversight from our elected representatives is a not horrible solution.
Remember electing an official is no guarantee of integrity or performance, not that the people even seem to care.
I'd rather risk my livelihood in front of the judges we have today, than the politicians being elected.
Ron in PA
said
Lz in Finance
said
Liberal who supports tougher justice
said
I am so sick of criminals and their defense lawyers (who should be deemed criminals themselves by virtue of the fact that they ensure justice is not served all too often)being given the victims treatment, all the while the real victims in our society are left to suffer, knowing that those who have harmed them will soon be back on the streets to offend again.
I hope this goes through without any holdup from the criminal adoring NDP.
John in Ottawa
said
simon
said
--- Increase prison terms.
--- Mandatory sentences
--- Now 2 for 1
Why all this effort to treat the sympton.
Cure the disease ! please !
Recently they washed their hands over the gang violation in BC saying it was due to DRUGS.
Blame, Blame, Blame.
With no attempt to fix the problem.
BUT.... they are now also trying to divert the attention away from the Financial Crisis.
Are they losing their marbles?
John in Mtl.
said
Served Time
said
Everyone takes pride in our system; innocent until proven guilty but when it comes down to really following through with the idea, it's a joke.
If you're denied bail (remember, you haven't been convicted of anything, yet anyway), you should receive extra credit for pre-trial custody.
Everyone in this country is entitled to a timely trial - within 13 months I believe. The 2 for 1 credit should still exist if the Crown delays your trial beyond this point.
The view from Niagara
said
Art
said
Tim from Calgary
said
Dan LeClair Ottawa
said
Ian- AB
said
chris
said
Peter L. Kamloops, BC
said
Matt, NS
said
BJ
said
CYL
said
JF in NB
said
Cathy McKenzie
said
Michel (Ottawa)
said
Now if Mr. Harper could only get a majority to clean the inefficient legal quagmire created by previous governments.
Now if they only get rid of the ridiculous Young Offenders Act that was morphed into the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I'm always amazed when I read some police chief statement on how more young people are doing dangerous and serious crimes and they have no idea why. Well, duh.
It's About Time, Alberta
said
Bill in BC
said
1. Bring in REAL sentences for the offences;
2. Make jails a punishment again. Rehab is all to the well but make it clear you DON'T want to go back to jail;
3. fire activist judges.
4. bring back capital punishment. Automatic appeal when convicted and then carry it out if the sentence is upheld.
Paul Keating
said
Davey boy
said
Brent - Alberta
said
The comment that this will not "reduce the number of victims", maybe knowing they are going to get a tougher sentence keep some people from doing the crime. Next step, start treating the inmates the waythe Sheriff in Arizona does, pink clothes and hard labour
AdamJ, Ontario
said
BW
said
Eliminating the credit for pre-trial custody may actually speed up the system.
Think about it, if someone is guilty and there is a strong possibilty that they are going to found guilty they are not going to delay proceedings that will increase their time behind bars.
Secondly i think the majority of people would welcome the government spend more money locking up repeat and dengerous offenders for a longer period of time.
Lastly people charged for minor offenses are generally not locked up in remand.
GOOD JOB
said
A. Bica
said
Frank from Maple Ridge
said
Mike in TO
said
nc
said
First of all If I commit a crime I should be punished.( Even though I think the court system is flawed)
If I have not committed a crime or potentially committed a crime. Why would I want to join a program that will help me to not commit a crime. I have better things to do.
The other assumption made here is that everyone who is poor or disadvantaged is at risk to commit a crime. I say this is BS.
People join gangs and commit crimes for many reasons that rarely relate to poverty.
They commit the crime due to hatred or revenge towards another or society. I'm not going to one day say I'm poor I will commit a crime.
charlie
said
...With a bit more realistic rulings like that it may just not pay to be a criminal in canada after all!
BW
said
While i am a fellow penny pincher i believe that locking up violent repeat offenders for longers periods of time is worth the money. Shorter sentences mean that they are on the street and maybe in your area that much sooner!!
Brian
said
While I agree that prevention is important we have protect society from the people who continually break the law and are a danger to its citizens.
Pip
said
Better still, build more courts, appoint more judges and prosecutors, and hire more public defenders, so that every person charged with a crime can get a day in court in an expeditious manner. Having to wait an unduly long period for one's trial - in some cases years -is not reasonable, whether held in custody or not.
Besides, prosecutors and defenders who are not bogged under by enough cases for five lawyers would be less prone to asking for delays, thus removing any possible need for time-served allowances.
But, would the members of the bar permit such a sensible action . . . .
Sean Leamen
said
kenl77
said