CTV News | Nicholson to kill two-for-one prison-time credit ASAP

Top Stories -   

Nicholson to kill two-for-one prison-time credit ASAP

Viewer

CTV News Video

CTV Newsnet: Justice Minister Rob Nicholson
CTV Calgary: Sneha Kulkarni reports on the changes coming to the way jail time is calculated
Power Play: Ed Fast, Conservative MP, Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal MP, Joe Comartin, NDP MP and Irvin Waller
CTV Newsnet: Bloc and Conservative MPs debate the jail-time reforms during question period
CTV Newsnet: Constance Backhouse, University of Ottawa, on why longer prison terms may not deter crime
CTV Newsnet: Roger Smith looks at why some think this is an attempt to distract people from trouble on the economic front
Canada AM: Irvin Waller, law professor at the University of Ottawa, says the proposed legislation is just another example of 'not being tough on crime and just being tough on criminals'
Canada AM: CTV legal analyst Steven Skurka says this concerns those who believe the power of sentencing should lie with judges and the justice system
CTV National News: Roger Smith with the exclusive report on the proposed legislation and support across party lines

Font-size:      Share  Print  Comments(94)

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Mar. 25 2009 3:34 PM ET

The Conservative government announced plans Wednesday to end the "two-for-one" credit judges often grant convicted criminals for time spent in pre-trial custody.

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson told reporters he expects the proposed legislation to be passed as quickly as possible, noting it has "widespread support."

"We've had urgings from people across this country, provincial attorneys general, groups that would like to see this move (forward), and if this new-found interest from the opposition parties to fight crime in this country is sincere, I want to see this move as quickly as possible," Nicholson said in Ottawa.

The actual legislation is expected to be tabled on Friday.

The two-for-one credit system aims to compensate for so-called "dead time" criminals spend in overcrowded detention centres that do not have rehabilitation programs or many of the amenities of long-term prison housing.

Critics who want the credit to end argue that some prisoners abuse the system by trying to stretch their pre-trial time to cut their time behind bars later.

Nicholson said the proposal would put an end to that practice, and speed up the administration of justice.

"I think this will have the effect of unclogging the courts. I think individuals or their solicitors will not find it to their advantage to have continuous delays or adjournments and so I think this will help move the process forward," he said.

CTV's Roger Smith, reporting from Ottawa, said Wednesday that the Tory legislation will likely have the support of the Liberals.

NDP members also say they will also support the legislation, but indicate they want exceptions made for those being housed in the worst jails.

Prominent lawyers protest

But many lawyers have slammed the proposed legislation.

Clayton Ruby, one of Canada's leading defence lawyers, called Canadian detention centres "hellholes" and "a humiliation."

Ruby said the holding centres are extremely overcrowded and prisoners are waiting much too long for trial.

"The rule was a good rule developed by the courts to alleviate the hardships of what we are doing to (those awaiting trial)," he told CTV News.

Ruby said the real solution is to ensure a speedy trial.

"To do that we have to provide more facilities... more judges, more courts," he said. "(But) Mr. Nicholson is not providing a penny for that."

Irvin Waller, founding director of the Institute for the Prevention of Crime at the University of Ottawa, said the legislation is just another example of politicians being tough on criminals and not on crime.

"We don't see here a federal-provincial plan to really reduce the number of victims, we just see tinkering with one small part of the system," Waller told CTV's Canada AM on Wednesday.

If passed, Waller said he expects to see offenders serving longer sentences and more people behind bars.

"That means that we will be paying more of our taxes for after-the-fact solutions to crime instead of investing in the things that would reduce the number of gang-related homicides, the number of women assaulted, the number of robberies," he said.

The two-for-one system came under fire recently when the father of a kidnapping victim expressed his anger when his son's kidnappers had their sentences reduced by six years due to the two-for-one credit.

Robert McMynn's son, Graham, then 24, was abducted at gunpoint in April 2006 and spent eight terrifying days in captivity before being rescued from a Surrey, B.C. home.

Still, the two-for-one credit is not a requirement. For example, the judge in the case of convicted terrorist Momin Khawaja did not give out a two-for-one credit.

But Canada's criminal code says that judges may take pre-trial custody into account and that discretion has become a near-standard practice, backed up by support from various appeal courts.

The government legislation would take away the judge's discretion, but some believe that longer sentences given out under the bill could be subject to a Charter of Rights challenge.

CTV legal analyst Steven Skurka called the legislation a "huge mistake."

"If there is a problem, and I don't accept that there is one, the answer is to pour more money into the justice system and to get in-custody trials on sooner," Skurka said.

He said the legislation would put huge demands on the justice system.

"I don't think this has been thought through at all," he said.

"It sounds like it's been decided on anecdotes rather than empirical studies."

With a report from CTV's Roger Smith

Comments are now closed for this story

Carole Davis
said

It is about time this ridiculous practice was stopped. If people are held in custody before a trial there is a reason. They are a danger to society when not in custody. Kill the two for one get out of jail free card now.


Greg Oshawa
said

It's about time! Jail time under the Liberals has become a joke! Canada just gives a slap on the wrist and a get-out-of-jail-free card. This all started under Trudeau and has been a terrible experiment. If you do the crime you do the time!

We are far too soft on criminals and seem to completely forget the victims. Punishment is suppose to be just that punishment! Enough with the bleeding heart Liberals and NPD (who are even worst on crime) if we need to built new jails, then so be it!


Frunk
said

Yay! for the Tory crime fighters!!! At last a government bold enough to correct these horrible mistakes of past governments.


BrianB
said

Its good to see all parties agree on this bill, its about time this has changed. I do laugh though at the NDP comment that they support the bill but want exceptions for worst jails. Problem with that, these judges we have will then be able to say their jail is the worst and the problem will still be with us.Is not jail supposed to be bad? The bill needs to be passed with no exceptions. If a drug dealer, murder ect. sits in remand for 5 yrs playing the game, well thats 5 extra years they serve.


Bob in Lewisporte
said

I never did agree with the "two for One" system..

I a perverted way it was rewarding the scum for committing the crime in the first place.


DRH
said

All to often the criminals are using the 2 for 1 senario and delaying their court dates for whatever reason to end up with minimal time in hard prison. This is a good thing and should have been stopped long ago. I have to go now as I hear the clickity click of bleeding heart liberalkeyboards behind me!
Good job Mr. Harper.


Mario - Rockland
said

As a Liberal, I would support this. I like it.


John Jacobson
said

Once convicted, a serious felon should pay double for the time and money we spent keeping him from re-offending. If he is exhonorated, some measure of compensation is due based on his income and work history. This should keep some Judges and Court Reporters awake during proceedings.


John
said

While I agree with this wholeheartedley, I can certainly see some problems arising. First off,under the constitution, a person is entitled to a fast and speedy trial, which under this system won't happen unless there is a doubling in the amount of judges and courtrooms. Because of this, many people WHO SHOULD BE convicted will win on this right to a speedy trial and be back on the streets with no record of that crime.The second problem is the costs involed with this. The justice budget would quadruple at least. The third thing is how it affects people who just can't afford bail money to get themselves out of jail for minor infractions.


Bruce
said

Actually, there are many held in pre-trial custody who do not have the financial resources to post bail. Many do not have communication with families or anyone else who would advocate for them. Innocent people are not given justice for great lengths of time because the "system" isn't working. Removing two for one is a political move and addresses nothing. The prisons and the courts in Canada are not working efficiently and this government thinks adding more time for prisoners will help. It won't do anything, but add to a system that's already broken.


Cale
said

Good on the Harper gov't - this has been a long time coming!


Ken
said

I hope this bill passes, it seems today the bad guys get all the breaks. Suck it up boys you do the crime , expect the time.


Helen
said

Bravo! The two for one rule is ridiculous. Defence lawyers with hopeless clients on remand use delays to shorten the time served when their client is finally convicted by overwhelming evidence. Look how often these scum bags suddenly change their plea to "guilty" when their lawyer has run out of ways to stall the trial. I don't blame the lawyers: they're using the system to their clients' best advantage. It's the current system that fails the public.


Darryl
said

Not going to comment whether I agree with this or not. However. Hypothetical situation.....Accused person sits in remand for lets say 6 months waiting for trial and in the end gets proven not-guilty. What happens then. Pretty sure the goverment cannot give someone back their freedom that has been taken away. The idea sounds good but not everyone is going to agree with it....


PB_ Toronto
said

Very reason I voted Conservative. Criminals may actually get punnished for doing crimes..imagine that! Insttead of using every excuse for treating them like victimes put them in jail. Now hopefully they will make some changes to the Youth justice Act as I think thats a joke as well as is our entire legal system because there definitley isnt any Justice in it.


Stu, Toronto
said

"The credit aims to compensate for so-called "dead time" criminals spend in overcrowded detention centres that do not have rehabilitation programs or many of the amenities of long-term prison housing."

Amenities? Why should prisoners receive amenities? Television, activity rooms, *normal day-to-day* things should not be a part of prison life. They took away another person's dignity and rights, in most cases, so they should have theirs taken away if convicted. Jail is not a holiday.


AB in AB
said

This is certainly a good start, now let's take a good look at the joke we call the Young Offenders Act.


David, Woodbridge
said

No bleeding heart here, just a penny-pincher. The longer they stay in prison, the more it costs me, and contrary to popular belief, most of these people don't re-offend once they are released. So, what's the point of keeping them in jail on my dime any longer than is absolutely necessary. Since they got in, the Tories have been all about longer sentences. You know who pays for that? We do!

I know there are a lot of so-called law-and-order types ready to pounce, and scary ones ready to cut off the hand that steals a loaf of bread, so let's have it.


Peter, Hamilton
said

Right on! Finally some common sense. Criminals have been taking advantage of Canada's weak justice system for far too long. In fact, they flaunt it. It's time for tougher penalties and longer sentences. Even if it doesn't reduce crime, at least these thugs aren't on the streets. The Harper government has my vote in the next election.


Subby in ON
said

Well, this seems to make sense.

Now, if only they had the brains and courage to legalize drugs...


Larry Lefty - Canal
said

Good news! The Criminal Code should be changed so that the judges can not take pre-trial custody into account. The judges should also have to be elected, (as well as Senators), so that in order for them to keep their jobs they have to do what the people want not what they or their political buddies want. The Lieberals have to vote for this. They would look like bigger fools than they already are if they didn"t.


SS
said

Now that is a something I can get behind. I'm not much for the Conservatives, but I totally support ditching this ridiculous policy. :)


Barry O'Regan
said

It's about time, now lets make sure Lefty BC judges are forced to abide with it! Perhaps go one step further, if judges release or give bail to a criminal, and that criminal commits yet another crime, make it law the judge has to join that criminal in jail.

Barry O'Regan
British Columbia


Mike
said

IT'S ABOUT TIME!! As for these people who say O My our taxes will in crease, so what. You don't complain when the goverment lets these immigrants into the country, pays them welfare and it turns out they are involved in gangs, robbing or killing people. I feel once they are convicted they should be locked up for the full sentence..


Great Move... Next Steps?
said

Thank God. Finally some common sense.
Here is something else to consider; the abolition of early parole. That would mean that, for example, a 12 year sentence for manslaughter is exactly that; 12 years. Receiving early release for expected behaviour is not something that is condusive to punishment for a crime. Rewarding expected behavour is absurd. Should the inmante not behave then time should be added to the sentence instead.
It'll never fly, but does it not make a great deal of sense?
Remember, the first and foremost purpose of incarceration should always be punishment for wrong doings.


Sharon
said

Good for you Mr. Harper! Been wishing for this for a long time!!


Jim in Edmonton
said

Now I want back to back sentences! I am willing to pay more taxes or a surcharge to keep violent and serious criminals behind bars where they belong. I don't care about the rehab debate, every criminal in prison is one less terrorizing society.


Jimbo
said

Good!
About time!

I fail to see why your birthday counts as 2 days of jail time! Same as X-mas etc.

My sister-in-law is a prison guard and it makes her sick at the benefits people in prison get. Special religious treatment etc.

Your in jail to pay back a debt to society and to be punished for your crimes. Why these folks are rewarded with tv, university degrees, 3 warm meals etc is beyond me!

I have nearly bankrupted myself paying for myself and a family to provide all the best life can offer...its tough being a single-income family! Then I see coke dealers getting house arrest and they make a hell of alot more money than me! With no worries of lasting consequences!

Maybe I should change careers, become a seedy dealer and if I go to jail I can come out with an MBA paid for with your tax $$$!!!

Who's the REAL victims here!


Samual
said

It doesn't really do much just another con gimmick to make it look like their doing something. Court decisions should all be left to judges. Just like he wants to make penalties tougher, but drop the gun register so criminals can have easier access to guns. Harper blowing wind again.


GTA
said

Of course the Liberals won't support this. They are soft on crime and have always fostered the criminal vote.


Red Deer Joe
said

Hurrah for Harpo! Let's build more prisons! Let's incarcerate everyone and then - let's raise the stars and stripes while we're at it.


JW
said

Prison sentences should be "contemplative" time. They should not be allowed TV, entertainment, pool tables etc. They should be confined to time served to think about they have done. If it means sitting idle for 20 years and being bored to tears in your cell, then perfect!


Gregory Boudreau
said

As far as I am concerned, people who break the law should not be given an easy time, it should be a rough ride. Bravo for the Tories for at least trying to address the problem, but as we all know you are not going to please everyone. We have to get back to were you commit a crime you have to answer for the crimes, incuding the penalties for that crime.


Marion in the Creek
said

Right on Mr Harper! "Two for one" is a joke and is being abused by the criminals. If we need to build more jails let's do it under the stimulus package and get people back to work!


Matt
said

Locking criminals away has two goals.
1. It keeps the rest of us safe, they can't hurt us from jail.
2. Punishment/Revenge for what they did. You can argue about the deterant effects.

I'd love to prevent more crime, but I want real solutions.

And to those promoting more bans and laws to control things, what type of penalty will you have?
Fines are only punishment, they don't protect us. For dangerous criminals this leaves jail and I'd argue too many violent criminals get out far to early.


Brad
said

I agree with skurka in the story. This legislation does nothing to solve problems of crime. The biggest issue in my mind is that it often takes more than a year after an arrest to get a conviction. There is such a backlog of cases awaiting time in court that the right to a speedy trial is a myth.
This is just another Conservative bill that will do nothing for the real problems that face our country.


Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON
said

Legislation by Stephen Harper's Conservative governement barring or limiting the ability of judges and lawyers to grant or take advantage of, 2 days awarded for 1 day actually served in detention by the accused is long overdue.

The legal industry may whine about one of their "cash cows" being removed from their billing arsenal but taxpayers and law-abiding citizens are fed up with
"molly-coddling" criminals and the revolving door of the justice system!

Lets support our government going forward; if the Opposition tries to obstruct this legislation they do so at their peril come the next election!

Pro Patria


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

JUSTICE "SYSTEM" STILL BROKEN

While this is a positive measure (CTV legal analyst Steven Skurka is certainly missing the mark) that deserves the multi-party support it's getting, the fact remains that our justice system still can't process criminal activity in a timely manner, and with judicial results that mirror the wishes of the people.

We're still stuck with too many "liberal" judges who have too much discretion in sentencing. The ultimate consequence for the commission of a crime isn't enough to send any type of deterring message.

The accused have a right to a speedy trial, and the people have a right to protective justice. The current system fails in both regards.

Given that conservative politicians (the only ones with a genuine ideological concern over this issue) have been unable to cut out the liberal rot that plagues our justice system, due largely to the misguided opposition of Liberals and NDP, it's time to consider electing judges and wrestling control from government.

Meanwhile, Canadians need to make crime and punishment a more central issue before, during, and after elections...if they want the system to change.


RobO
said

"The government legislation would take away the judge's discretion, but some believe that longer sentences given out under the bill could be subject to a Charter of Rights challenge."

People who commit a crime should lose all the rights under the charter. The reason for this - They took someone else's rights.

Good on all the parties that support this bill.




TC
said

Excellent, finally. Now we need more jails and judges that will actually impose adequate sentences and abolish concurrent sentencing.


Gadget
said

AMEN! Now if we could only get CONSECUTIVE sentencing and LIFE sentencing maybe we could actually punish criminals properly!


Cory
said

Part of me agrees with this. But you can't just lock up someone and throw away the key. Yes there are some in the system who are too far gone but there are some in there that are worth rehabing. I hope Harper does the right thing and puts some money into the system for programs that help rehabilitate them back into society.


Bob in Renfrew
said

A move in the right direction and obviously it has hit a positive cord in this thread!


Dr. James Bradford
said

This is a very positive move to retake the justice system from the left wing liberal socialists and return it to sanity and common sense.

Canadians are pleased with this move to hold criminals accountable. Now... let's go after the Montreal based Mafia and Hells Angels in this country and send them a message that Canada is not theirs to destroy with drugs and other sundry criminal acts.


Gee
said

I like this, it's time we stop giving criminals any kind of breaks.


GM
said

It's about freaking time, next they need to get rid of only having to serve 3/4 of your sentence


Nick in Gatineau
said

I'm all for it when it is 100 % proof-positive that the person is guilty.

But......

What happens in the event that someone is tried as an adult, found guilty, and then aquitted at sentencing ?

That credit works in both ways. It works in favor of the accused and gives his lawyers time to ensure that the accused is indeed guilty; but it also helps the prosecution to avoid needless lawsuits in the future because of this type of scenario.

What happens 20 or 30 years later when that offence is still on record and has worked against him or her for that entire period ? Simply because an administrative person failed to fill out the proper box on a piece of paper.

How can that person defend themselves and get compensation they deserve ?

How much does it cost to have that blackmark removed ?

Abuse means that there are other issues such as Not enough Jails, sentences are not adequate for the crimes committed, time spent going to trial is too long, lax documentation from either side, etc...

Compensation based on past work experience doesn't cut it.

Do not forget that the law can ruin someone's life just as fast as making a stupid mistake. And all it takes is an accusation. Nothing more.


Jon
said

The worst part abourt 2 for 1 days in deadtime is that they are missing the most important part of the rehabilitation time, the actual sentence!!!

When a rapist/thief/violent offender sit in "dead time/2-4-1" there is no treatment as they are unable to discuss their crime because they are often pleading not guilty to the crime they are in detention for.

A criminal cannot work on rehabilitation when they can't even admit they did it!

I suggest the laws change to make for a more efficient system. Go sit in a criminal court for a day and you will see a very slow moving system. Lawyers dilly dallying etc., 5 hour workdays, lots and lots of breaks some times up to 2 hours! The government needs to step in and set some strict rules about speeding up court, maybe not the trials, the pleas and remands


GWinnipeg
said

Finally the Conservatives get something right.


Frank
said

Mr. David, Woodbridge you should educate yourself more on the recidivism rates of offenders.

From somebody who works in the Criminal Justice field I am frustrated when a file takes me longer to prepare for the Crown then the sentence handed to the offender due to pretrial time. Then two months later I am doing the same charges up again on these same indiviudals!
The system is being abused and its about time it is stopped.
Thank you Mr. Harper and thank you to the Liberals for supporting this bill it will make crime more accountable and keep criminals off our streets.



G. Gravelle, Ottawa, Ontario
said

It's about time.


Renee
said

Finally! When I first heard that there was such a thing as two for one credit I thought it was one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. I am perfectly happy to pay more taxes to get the scum of society off the streets. The longer the better in my opinion. Yes, crime prevention is important because it will help somebody but be realistic and realize that not everybody cares to contribute to the good of society. A good start. Next get rid of house arrest.


Jim Pickering
said

Dr James Bradford.
You never spoke truer words.


Tom
said

A couple of people here mentioned how this may not be good based on someone waiting 6 months for a trial and then being found not guilty. I am sure this does happen some times, but it has nothing to do with removing double time. This only applies to someone convicted. It is only right that they remove this. I think it is so stupid that a judge makes a bad decision about a case in the past and gives low sentence and this has to be taken as precedent. They should not be allowed to use a past case to set a sentence. The law has a minimal and a maximum and ever case should have a sentence that the sitting judge feels is correct, and that judge should not have to worry about a useless appeals board overturning and giving a lesser sentence just because some other person was given that sentence in the past.


slawson, jon
said

it's a step in the right direction but i think that it's gonna just cause us to throw cash at the prison system. they need to make it so that the worst offenders (the ones that get longer sentences) are the ones who don't get the two-for-one. someone who is a first offender should still have opportunity to prove that they can reform and be a productive member of Canada. i think that anyone who get's a sentence of 6months or more should have to serve everyday in a work camp really...let them earn their meals.


Matt
said

I'm scared of elected judges.

I don't like the idea of the judges ruling in accordance with public opinion instead of the facts and details of the case.

I think self regulating system with some oversight from our elected representatives is a not horrible solution.

Remember electing an official is no guarantee of integrity or performance, not that the people even seem to care.

I'd rather risk my livelihood in front of the judges we have today, than the politicians being elected.


Ron in PA
said

Mr. Waller says that being tough on criminals is not being tough on crime. If the one who commits crime is behind bars he or she will have less opportunity to commit crimes. Since the majority of these criminals are repeat offenders I would say being tough on criminals is being tough on crime. We need to focus the system on protection of the innocent and assistance for victims. More people in jail. Build more prisons. I call it infrastructure money well spent. Less crime and employment as well. Win win go Harper


Lz in Finance
said

Finally!


Liberal who supports tougher justice
said

I am not a Conservative supporter in general, but I am thankful that this government is taking responsibility in crime & justice matters.
I am so sick of criminals and their defense lawyers (who should be deemed criminals themselves by virtue of the fact that they ensure justice is not served all too often)being given the victims treatment, all the while the real victims in our society are left to suffer, knowing that those who have harmed them will soon be back on the streets to offend again.
I hope this goes through without any holdup from the criminal adoring NDP.


John in Ottawa
said

Its about time. Lawyers who most often are paid by the public purse also advise their clients to string things out in order to get the 2 for 1 deal. All that does is clog up the courts and enrich lawyers. Judges know this and I believe they have the discretion to discount the 2 for 1 deal but most of them don't. Harper haters may not like this one, but it is actually a good idea.


simon
said

The Tories seem to have an obsession with "PRISON".

--- Increase prison terms.
--- Mandatory sentences
--- Now 2 for 1

Why all this effort to treat the sympton.
Cure the disease ! please !

Recently they washed their hands over the gang violation in BC saying it was due to DRUGS.

Blame, Blame, Blame.
With no attempt to fix the problem.

BUT.... they are now also trying to divert the attention away from the Financial Crisis.

Are they losing their marbles?


John in Mtl.
said

I agree with the elimination of this 2 for 1 policy, but the trial process must then be speeded-up to avoid potential abuses by the crown. Darryl: your points are all valid, but whether 2 for 1 or straight time, the person wrongly-jailed for six months suffers the same injustice regardless.


Served Time
said

Often, if the accused asks for an adjournment, they are not given 2 for 1 time for extra pre-trial time. I know this from experience.

Everyone takes pride in our system; innocent until proven guilty but when it comes down to really following through with the idea, it's a joke.

If you're denied bail (remember, you haven't been convicted of anything, yet anyway), you should receive extra credit for pre-trial custody.

Everyone in this country is entitled to a timely trial - within 13 months I believe. The 2 for 1 credit should still exist if the Crown delays your trial beyond this point.


The view from Niagara
said

The Conservatives continue to do a great job! It's unfortunate that they haven't been given a majority government so that they can pass other tough criminal legislation so that the onus on crimes can be strictly placed upon the criminals themselves! Continue the excellent work PM Harper!


Art
said

I would like to point out again that studies show keeping people in jail longer does not lower the crime rate or make people any safer, it just costs us the taxpayer tens of thousands of dollars a year to keep the criminal incarcerated. Prevention is a much more economical way to approach the problem. It is very similar to the medical field where it is much cheaper to prevent illness than to treat it.


Tim from Calgary
said

Great! Exactly why the Conservatives should be running the government. Now to get rid of the Young Offenders Act which is basically a license for youth to commit unlimited crimes.


Dan LeClair Ottawa
said

To GTA - I am a Liberal and I fully support this. Being tough on crime is not only for Conservatives - anyone with a sense of right and wrong would want to see criminals pay full price for their crimes. I would like to see further changes: how about life in prison means LIFE in prison. How about getting rid of parole? Why should crooks get a break and get out early - did they give their victims a break? Why do murderers sometimes get out after 10 to 12 years – their victim is still dead, and their family is still mourning? You can be a Liberal and still be tough on crime. Canadians are an intelligent people and do not myopically support one party platform; we are not that polarised. We are bright enough to use our own heads and support Gov’t policies that make sense – regardless of which party came up with them. In this case – Bravo to PM Harper.


Ian- AB
said

I don't agree with the Harper government much, But this time Mr. Harper.... if you can get this done.... I applaud thee. It is a stupid stupid practice. 2 for 1 for time already served.... time served shouldn't count at all. Post bail or sit in a jail cell.


chris
said

I don't know if many of you have sat in a criminal court all day. It's silly. The most time is spent by the lawyers (crown and defence) planning when would be good to meet next. Very little actually gets settled. The system needs to get fixed, you should not be able to to delay things the way you can. I spent 15 months in court(from first date to last date) on a charge of possesion of a gram or less of cannabis. I ended paying $200 to the red cross and had no criminal record.I wonder what that cost the government over the 15 months...


Peter L. Kamloops, BC
said

IT'S ABOUT TIME!!! These scumbags are getting their just desserts. The victims don't get two for one in their healing process.


Matt, NS
said

Our legal system needs to stop being as easy going as it has been. I'm sick of hearing about criminals getting off easy. It isn't that hard to be a productive member of society. We need to step up and squash the anti-government criminal attitudes of today with education and deterrance.


BJ
said

this is great..funny how this story isnt on the cbc website.


CYL
said

It's about time. One brownie for the PCs, and it should not cost more, just spread the budget thinner. Who said punishment for crime and criminals should be a picnic in the park. The punishment for criminals never fits the crime, and criminals should not have rights, especially when they take away another persons right. I am a tax payer and I despise the fact that my taxes contributes to feeding them. In these bad economic times I would rather my taxes feed starving children who cannot fend for themselves.


JF in NB
said

I am a liberal minded person. But even I agree with this initiative.


Cathy McKenzie
said

I would like to thank the Liberal supporters,who are decent enough to admit that the Conservatives have made correct decesion,in initiating this. Too often,us Partisan commentators,will rarely admit to having support for a single good idea that comes from a Party,other than the one of our own choosing. We all need to remove our Partisan blinders,at times,and admit that some decesions,are for the good of all law abiding citisens,and help to protect our Society.



Michel (Ottawa)
said

Alleluia! Thank God the Conservatives know the difference between punishing the criminals and punishing the victims a second time which is what our legal system has become with the farce that it is.
Now if Mr. Harper could only get a majority to clean the inefficient legal quagmire created by previous governments.
Now if they only get rid of the ridiculous Young Offenders Act that was morphed into the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I'm always amazed when I read some police chief statement on how more young people are doing dangerous and serious crimes and they have no idea why. Well, duh.


It's About Time, Alberta
said

The reason our pretrial facilities are overcrowded is directly correlated to the two for one credit (yes this has been studied). Inmates continually put their trials off thereby waiving their right to a speedy trial in order to shop judges to get a more lenient Judge and build up credit for time in custody. Think about it, would you rather spend 1.5 years in pretrial custody and be let go with time served on a 3 year sentence or spend 6 months and have to serve a further 2.5 years on the same 3 year sentence. Pre-trial custody can still be granted under the new legislation but 2 for 1 cannot. The 2 for 1 credit bagan in the mid 90's when an inmate successfully argued that because he had to live in a cell with one other person that his living conditions were so horrible that he deserved more credit for time in custody. Shame on the Judge that set that precedent.


Bill in BC
said

Not only do I think this is a GREAT idea and overdue but:

1. Bring in REAL sentences for the offences;

2. Make jails a punishment again. Rehab is all to the well but make it clear you DON'T want to go back to jail;

3. fire activist judges.

4. bring back capital punishment. Automatic appeal when convicted and then carry it out if the sentence is upheld.


Paul Keating
said

The only ones against this 2 for 1 issue is the greedy defence lawyers who hate it when the government keeps their best customers behind bars they would rather have them out on the streets committing more crime so they can make more money for themselves and to hell with the public who has to suffer the results of their criminal activities.


Davey boy
said

Good. How about for every 1 year they get sentenced we give them 2. that might deter crime.


Brent - Alberta
said

About time!!
The comment that this will not "reduce the number of victims", maybe knowing they are going to get a tougher sentence keep some people from doing the crime. Next step, start treating the inmates the waythe Sheriff in Arizona does, pink clothes and hard labour


AdamJ, Ontario
said

If the two-for-one time is eliminated, perhaps that will stop lawyers from "gaming" the system with delay tactics. If lawyers stop delaying trials, would that not help to reduce the backlog - not eliminate it - but help to alleviate some of the pressure?


BW
said

To John,

Eliminating the credit for pre-trial custody may actually speed up the system.

Think about it, if someone is guilty and there is a strong possibilty that they are going to found guilty they are not going to delay proceedings that will increase their time behind bars.

Secondly i think the majority of people would welcome the government spend more money locking up repeat and dengerous offenders for a longer period of time.

Lastly people charged for minor offenses are generally not locked up in remand.




GOOD JOB
said

Yahoo, it's sure a good start. Now follow the Philipines legal system and classify all crimes as either "Bailable" meaning that the charged offender can apply and receive bail while awaiting trial. And all major crimes - are "Non-Bailable" meaning that it's a seriuos crime and no bail is allowed, we could classify any crime using a gun, selling drugs, being involved in a criminal organization being non-bailable. So these idiots are kept in jail until after a judge desides there fate.


A. Bica
said

Incarcerating yet to be proven guilty people is against everything we stand for and the credit for time served prior is a form of payment for the affront such penalty is!


Frank from Maple Ridge
said

I wrote my MP stating I did not agree with the "2 for 1" system presently in effect so I am pleased that our Government is going to ATTEMPT to do something about it. With the apparent attitude of the NDP's,(they want exceptions for those housed in the worst jails--who will decide which jails are the worst?),I would not be surprised if the proposed legislation did not get passed. We do not have a "justice" system in Canada, we have a "legal" system. The laws are written by lawyers and many of those who occupy seats in Parliment are lawyers who are therfor involved in the passage of the laws written by lawyers AND who administers the laws--lawyers, including the judges.


Mike in TO
said

I don't necessarily support the Tories' other "get tough on crime" type bills, but it's hard not to agree with this one. Giving double-credit for time served during trial is ripe for abuse... all the accused has to do is drag out the trial by changing lawyers, etc, and he gets a huge dent taken out of his sentence.


nc
said

These experts who want to put more money in prevention are delusional just like those alternative energy proponents.
First of all If I commit a crime I should be punished.( Even though I think the court system is flawed)
If I have not committed a crime or potentially committed a crime. Why would I want to join a program that will help me to not commit a crime. I have better things to do.
The other assumption made here is that everyone who is poor or disadvantaged is at risk to commit a crime. I say this is BS.
People join gangs and commit crimes for many reasons that rarely relate to poverty.
They commit the crime due to hatred or revenge towards another or society. I'm not going to one day say I'm poor I will commit a crime.


charlie
said

Finally! That was the biggest loop hole any criminal had to not pay for the crime!

...With a bit more realistic rulings like that it may just not pay to be a criminal in canada after all!


BW
said

To David, Woodbridge

While i am a fellow penny pincher i believe that locking up violent repeat offenders for longers periods of time is worth the money. Shorter sentences mean that they are on the street and maybe in your area that much sooner!!


Brian
said

To Brad,

While I agree that prevention is important we have protect society from the people who continually break the law and are a danger to its citizens.


Pip
said

By all means lets get rid of the stupid two-for-one system, but do it in a way that is charter-proof.

Better still, build more courts, appoint more judges and prosecutors, and hire more public defenders, so that every person charged with a crime can get a day in court in an expeditious manner. Having to wait an unduly long period for one's trial - in some cases years -is not reasonable, whether held in custody or not.

Besides, prosecutors and defenders who are not bogged under by enough cases for five lawyers would be less prone to asking for delays, thus removing any possible need for time-served allowances.

But, would the members of the bar permit such a sensible action . . . .


Sean Leamen
said

For the first time in a long time, I can finally say something that the Conservative government is actually doing well. This is an asinine credit that makes absolutely no sense. We need more of these retrictions, which is the only government intervention that Harper actually likes. But, we also need to combat the issue of overcrowding in jails.


kenl77
said

More sound legislation from our Conservative government. Longer time served will allow criminals to benefit from the wonderful rehabilitation programs currently offered in our Federal institutions


Share with your social Network:

 

Advertisement

Contest

User Tools

About the tools

Need to get in touch with CTV? You can email the CTV web team using the 'Feedback' button.

Share it with your network of friends

Share this CTV article or feature with your friends. Click on the icon for your favourite social networking or messaging system, and follow the prompts.

Share this article with Facebook

Share this article with Digg

Share this article with Newsvine

Share this article with delicious

Share this article.
Send Email

Share this article with Twitter

Share this article with StumbleUpon

Share this article with Reddit

Share this article with Yahoo! Buzz