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Senate committee to stall budget, Flaherty says

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CTV Newsnet: MPs deabate the budget in Ottawa
CTV Newsnet: Finance Minister Jim Flaherty comments ahead of caucus meeting

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Mar. 11 2009 4:18 PM ET

The Senate finance committee will delay a vote on the Conservatives' budget so senators can take more time to review its contents, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Wednesday.

Bill C-10, the federal government's budget implementation bill, is currently before the committee, which must review the document before senators can pass it.

On Tuesday, Flaherty appeared before the committee and warned against putting off a vote and denying the Canadian economy of billions in stimulus money.

However, before a Conservative caucus meeting on Wednesday morning, Flaherty told reporters that the finance committee chair has indicated the committee will delay the vote.

"That's what he told me," Flaherty said. "They were going to take more days to look at it and call witnesses. I suggested to him that he calls some unemployed Canadians and see what they have to say to the Liberal senators about delaying their unemployment insurance benefits."

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff has said that he will encourage Liberal senators to pass the budget quickly, perhaps by March 26, CTV's Tom Clark reported on Wednesday.

"But Senators are unelected, they're not accountable to anybody, presumably they can do whatever the heck it is that they want to do," Clark told Newsnet. "And I think that's what's got Flaherty up in a knot."

Both Flaherty and Prime Minister Stephen Harper fired shots at the Liberal senators during question period Wednesday.

Harper called the senators "out of touch."

The bill allocates about $40 billion in stimulus funding and has already been passed by the House of Commons. If it is passed by the Senate by the end of the month, the money still won't be dispensed until July.

That is because budget estimates do not get authorized until the end of June, a system the Conservatives would like to change.

"This is archaic," Flaherty said. "No business operates their business in this way, so we need to fix that."

In the meantime, the Tories have set aside $3 billion in funding, separate from the stimulus bill, which can be spent immediately after Parliament gives its approval.

Flaherty said that those funds would go toward provincial and municipal projects - such as bridge and road repairs, as well as deferred maintenance at colleges and universities - that have already been approved and are ready to start.

Also on Wednesday, the Conservatives launched a website, ActionPlan.gc.ca, which the public can use to learn about projects that are being funded by the stimulus bill, as well as issues related to the global financial crisis.

Comments are now closed for this story

Scott in Victoria
said

Well, it is the chamber of 'sober second thought' so I can hardly argue that what they are doing is a bad move. As for Clark's comment, "But Senators are unelected, they're not accountable to anybody, presumably they can do whatever the heck it is that they want to do," is incorrect. They are appointed to represent all Canadians, as opposed to those elected which only represent those who elected them.
It's sad that as Canadians we no longer understand how our political system works, but associate everything to an American style of governance.


jackson
said

time has come to abolish the senate, this is motivated purely for political reasons


Marc - Kingston
said

Suprise Surprise, Just as the Government said, the truth is coming out. The liberals are stalling the budget as Canadians suffer. Shame on the Liberal Party of Canada!


Kevin in Alberta
said

Liberal senators wasting time while Canadians are losing there jobs. I think all government and senetors should take wage cuts, like the rest of the working people in Canada, at my place of work we have cut wages by 35%!!! While these guys have had no cuts!!


Abolish Senate
said

Abolish this archaic body and replace it with an elected body! Why is this so hard in this ridiculous country!


Doug in Toronto
said

Why won't the government open up and let us know what they intend to do with the money?
It really is pretty simple.
Perhaps a bit of the promised clarity and transparency promised by Harper would speed things up.


afraid of what the results will be .....
said

If the Senate stalls the budget.

If the stimulus package does not work.

If the opposition fights this tooth an nail.

The current government cannot be blamed. They have tried everything to obtain the co-operation of the house and senate.

This country is in a mess...the members should be ashamed.


Jay, Ottawa
said

Seems there are two types of Canadians. Those who know how our government works and those who want to abolish the Senate.


Matt
said

Well this shows the good and bad about senators.
Quite simply they're a group of appointed naysayers to keep our publicity hungry elected politicians in check.

Being unelected they aren't accountable to the people or the political parties.
However this gives them the freedom to act in ways that may not be popular.

We just have to hope they behave in a responsible manner.


Elected Senators for all!!!
said

Gee and people wonder why we need an elected senate.

We don't need to change the number of Senators, but havign them elected and having term limits makes sense. We aren't in the 19th century. Only in Canada would we keep an unelected senate.

They used to have an unelected one in Austrailia, politicans said we'll change it and didn't, then next election were voted out. The next party fixed the problem. here in Canada we'll vote for liars after they lied ot us because we fear the other guy more.


Francesco
said

If they already have the famous/notorious list available, why won't they give it to the Opposition ? Could it be that the Cons cannot be held accountable for web site revelations, but they can be held accountable for a parliamentary list of projects?
Reviewing the past history of the Cons, I would believe the latter untill proven differently.


CN Calgary
said

Shame on you Iggy, as usual you are sitting back in hopes that the budget fails, and you can say "Told you so". Where is your promise of co-operation. I completely agree with Jackson, abolish the Senate. Why pay for a group of people who are nothing but a drain on the Canadian people. While we're at it, need a fairer distribution of electors. Why not try an equal number of reps. from each province, instead of letting one province talk for a whole nation.


Ken - Calgary
said

Well maybe if the unaccountable Conservative party hadn't stalled parliament, Canadians would already have the stimulus money, wouldn't they? The Conservatives have absolutely ZERO right to complain about 'stalling'. Pure hypocrisy.


Chris Ottawa
said

To Scott In Victoria,
You see nothing wrong with this picture, a bunch of unelected people passing judgement on a bill passed by the elected MP's? You must be a Liberal and see nothing wrong with the Liberal dominated Senate holding up funding to the Country. Just so in the end your Liberal Boss can say see the Tory's did nothing for the Country during this economic hardship. The Senate must go or be replaced by an elected Senate.


Rob O.
said

I'm sorry, isn't this the government that took a few weeks off in December/January because they didn't want to face a confidence motion.

It's a bit rich Flaherty. The Senate is NOT stalling. It is doing it's duty and you are using this soley for political points.

As for those who insist on abolishing the senate, please educate yourself to know what they actually do. They really are a sober second thought and not as partisan as you would think.



Pip
said

As Scott in Victoria states re senators: " They are appointed to represent all Canadians". Perhaps he would like to explain why these senators, "representing all Canadians" - presumably the unemployed as well as the employed, workers as well as political hacks - would delay passing a bill that will get money flowing into the economy NOW.

The Liberals and other opposition parties demanded the immediate spending of economy-boosting billions a couple of months ago; now they are delaying the budget implementation of the funds that would do precisely what they so vociferously demanded.

Political opportunism, pure and simple.





Ed in Dunchurch
said

It is really hard to understand just what the Senate. with it's Liberal majority are thinking, if they are in fact thinking. This is no time for petty politics!!
For goodness sake approve the Budget as soon as possible and get these stimulus funds flowing and get more Canadians back to work and enable them to support their families.
Enough already.


Zhimmy
said

Forget the "elected" Senate. Just scrap it!


Tony C
said

I completely agree with "Scott in Victoria". Canadians are unaware of how our Senate actually works. Unfortunately, or by design, the Conservative Gov't and Tom Clark are not helping by offering misleading information.


Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said

Why does't antbody understand, includeing Flaherty and Tom Clark, that the Senators are doing their COnstitutional job.

They were not intended to be a rubber stamp for the House of Commons.

Why doesn't everybodt take some time and study up on our PArliamentary system instead of solely listening to uniformed suources ALL THE TIME !

I like the idea of the Senate and I do want them to do their jobs.

The Senate cannot easily be abolished nor should it be.

It is just another un-thought-out idea fo Steven Harper to join with his many many many other un-thought-out ideas

Stop filling these posts with un-educated and false thoughts.


Tommies
said

To Rob O.
The government did not take 2 months off. They did the most comprehensive and detailed consulting with Canadians in preparation for this budget in the 50 years!!! The Liberals may have holidayed-the gov't didn't. But it's all for not as the Liberals will now delay it in attempt to put Canadians in a more difficlt situation for their own political gain.


Shirlee - SK
said

I am trying hard to believe in the Conservatives and their plans. I just pray they are on the up with the citizens of Canada. We don't need more bs from any of our politcians at this time. This country is in serious trouble especially in the East.

I personally think that there should not be an intervention by our governments other than to be sure families don't starve and try to implement methods so they do not lose their homes. Special provisions for the unemployed. Monies going to the auto sector is nothing but a sham, these companies sure didn't worry about the lonely taxpayer when things were swinging. Why are they crying so loud now?

Hopefully this money is used for the common good of our country, not by scam artists.


Heather
said

There are a lot of important items in the budget which have nothing to do with the budget - for example, pay equity and environmental rules about Canadian waterways.

Presumably Harper and co. put these in with the budget to get them passed with less discussion. Well, that sneakiness has backfired.

The proposal to have no rules about the $3 billion fund is also enough to make the Senate realize they need to take the time to study every line - who knows what else is in there in the "fine print"?


simon
said

What makes Flaherty believe they deliberately want to delay?
So Flaherty wants to rush now.
The economy was just fine a couple of months back.
They even prorogued Parliament and had an EXTENDED CHRISTMAS BREAK.

It now appears they want to close all files again so they can have a Spring Break with Blank checks to spend as they want. 20 BILLION with no strings attached.

I say to them " CANCEL THE SPRING BREAK AND GET DOWN TO WORK FIXING THE ECONOMY!!!"
And stop the TORY PARTISAN POLITICS!!!


Roger T
said

I think that is a good idea considering that the current Gov't wants to rush into something that does not guarantee consumer spending. It's typical of the Govt' to put a budget together and rush into wasting more tax payers dollars while there is little hopes and many doubts that the stimulous package will work.

The senate should take time to reviw the plans in full details instead of any hasty decisions.

The bottom line is:

Money is poured into the economy to spur consumer spending while retailers/car dealers prices remained FIXED instead of adjusting their prices accordingly. The is still a HUGE difference between US vs CDN prices on big ticket items.

Til than no buying if there are no price adjustments on big ticket items that does not offer incentives/rebate from Gov't and retailers.

Saving comes before the economy!



Tired of waiting game
said

Senators has had more than 2 months to review the budget. Why they need more time NOW when all of Canadians are waiting for?


Flaherty and the CONS can't be trusted
said

When Flaherty was finance minister in Ontario under the CONS, he told ud that the budget was balanced. An independent auditing team brought in after their defeat found otherwise. Flaherty and the CONS can not be trusted on the budget. It needs to be scrutinised. If they were more open and did not have this history, then perhaps the budget would get speedy passage.


liz ottawa
said

go figure, Libs are stalling a budget in which pretty much what they asked for is contained. clear to see what the agenda is, and it is not the common good of Canadians, that is clear. time to abolish the dinosaur Senate, what use is it, really. we should just need the parties themselves. just another bureaucratic waste of time that slows down making laws and in this scenario with a conserv minority and lib majority in Senate it is just a stalling vehicle. all of this just makes the libs look bad once again. approve it. I need to know if I can spend money on home renos and without approval I dont know that. alot of people are in that position. this would move along the building contracting industry.


Nick in Gatineau
said

The story stated... '...That is because budget estimates do not get authorized until the end of June, a system the Conservatives would like to change..."This is archaic," Flaherty said. "No business operates their business in this way, so we need to fix that."

EVERY BUSINESS IN CANADA DOES IT. Its called FISCAL year. Quarterly results, year end results ? You know, financial instruments, SEDAR, TSE, OSC. Remember ?

A budget is exactly that: a Budget. It has to be approved by all levels of the executive within their respective timetables. No business blindly creates Budgets unless it is fueled by pure greed or, that they are at some point fraudulent.

When a Finance Minister does not understand that - we are in trouble.

Fact is, it can take up to 2 years for a budget to be approved.

Maybe Flaherty and Harper should have acted when they were being told of the oncoming doom instead of telling everyone there was no issue with the Canadian economy for the last 18 months ? !!!


Anne
said

This country and our unemployed persons need this passed asap. I'm fed up with the Senate - if we should indeed have one, then put them on election ballets and we'll vote for who we think will best represent us - definite terms and if they do a lousy job, they're out.


Nicolas
said

The Conservatives stalled to avoid being defeated by the Coallition. What goes around, comes around.

Too bad its the Canadian people that had to suffer under both instances.


Reece
said

Harper still thinks he's a majority gov't. Ummm...NO! You are not the representation of the Canadian people hence the term M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y. We never trusted you to hand you a majority and therefore our representatives will scrutinize the details before passing it. Why is that so hard to swallow?


Mel from Calgary
said

Brian Mulroney, now Harper, why is it the conservatives are always wanting to plunge us into a constitutional crisis?

After the Meech Lake and Charlettown Accords Canadians lost thier appetite for at least a generation to go this route.

This is how our system works if the conservatives don't know how or are deliberately misleading how our system works they have no business running the government.


Aaron Hynes
said

For the sake of informed discussion...
1. Senators are NOT appointed to represent all Canadians. Each province has a fixed number of Senate seats, and Senators are given "Senatorial designations" within their provinces. To take a random example, Senator Hugh Segal is one of 24 Senators from Ontario, and his Senatorial Designation is Kingston-Leeds-Frontenac.
2. Strictly speaking, Tom Clark is correct that Senators are not accountable to anyone, since they are not bound to seek a mandate from anyone to continue in office.


Jeff in Victoria
said

This from a finance minister who a short few months ago was denying a recession! How quickly the worm has turned and they are now playing partisan games, to cover their own neglect in my opinion.

All parties should quit playing such games and get on with the work of getting the stimulus out where it is required.


Jim in Ottawa
said

The unelected, unaccountable Liberal-dominated Senate is going to delay the budget, possibly over the duration of their "March Break" while unemployed Canadians continue to wait for them to return from their break.

Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful.


Marc
said

What is this unemployment insurance Jim speaks of? I thought that went extinct, when Jean Cretien made his play on words to Employment insurance. I was laid off for 5 weeks, and after being back at work for 1 week, then my E.I. cheques arrived. Good thing I have savings to cushion myself.

If I got this straight, late Nov. we didn't need a government stimulus. Now 3 1/2 months later, it must get passed without delay. What has changed in 3 1/2 months?


Greg in the Hammer
said

What they're doing is called "examining", Jim. "Stalling" is sitting on your thumbs and denying there was a problem back in November, and then proroguing parliament to avoid being defeated. Let's be clear here.


Bob
said

The economy went in the tank early last year, by November it was obvious to all, not just business owners. The government decided it must "stimulate" the economy. Now this won't happen until July.. maybe.

Why bother? by then most business will have tanked, the stimulus will be a year too late.

It is disturbing at the mentality of those governing the country. This is the fast action to kick start the economy.

One has to ask why they didn't act in the summer of 08 when it was obvious we were on the down slope. Now they all stand on their podiums saying this needs to be done or that needs to be done but NOTHING is being done.



Commentor
said

The house passed this budget with review, because of political pressures from constituents, and their own partisan politics.

In this case, we should be glad we have an unelected senate, I feel better knowing someone read this giant budget before it gets signed into law.

From a rational point of view, this stimulus is poorly targeted, and generally a waste of money. I hope the senate can realize that having the advantage of being able to ignore those losing their jobs, and send it back to the house for revisions that will actually help those people that need the help.


ian
said

Abolish the Senate. They should be elected and held accountable for anything they do.


Mike in Richmond Hill
said

All the comments about the "unelected, unaccountable, liberal senate" remind me of the episode of the Simpsons where the meat industry showed Lisa's class a propaganda film that was total nonsense. After the film, all the stupid kids in the class were repeating some of its buzz phrases. Sounds familiar.....


Richard Dobbie
said

Can we be sure an elected senate will work when our elected governments do not work most of the time? Rick in Niagara Falls


BMM
said

To Francesco and Doug In Toronto:

You are confusing the $3B contingency fund with the budget. They are separate pieces of legislation. It is the budget that the Tories and Liberal MPs passed without amendment that the Senate is now going to hold up. The $3B contingency fund is a spending bill that does not require Senate approval. That said the List that you are both looking for is in the budget. The Govt cannot give specifics about which project will get funding at this point because the intent of the money it get projects that are ready to go moving in the Apr – June period before the rest of the stimulus money gets out. So it will be allocated on an “as ready” basis with all expenditures being reported to the House. That said the govt has said that the money will not be used for anything other than the projects that are on that list which was approved by Parliament in the budget vote. I think that given the extraordinary times that this is a prudent and reasonable approach.

The Senate and the Opposition need to stop playing politics and get on with passing both of these measures so that we start money flowing and get Canadians some much needed relief. One cannot help but think that the Opposition is doing this because it is to their advantage to have the economy stay bad and for the stimulus to fail.



Jim Edmonton
said

So let me get this straight, the government porogued parliment, and stalled, and now they want to hurry, without providing details. This is money for April 1st, and the smoke and mirrors game no longer works!


Joanne from Ottawa
said

I can't believe people are blaming the Liberals again, and for what? The Senate committee (which is not just Liberals) has asked to examine the bill, which is their responsiblity to do. That is their job. If they didn't examine and just passed everything through, then people would be upset because they didn't do their jobs, especially if some un-ethical spending was later found.
After all, they are just examining what our taxpayers' money will be spent on. And if the money can't be spent until July anyways, why not take a few days more to look at the bill?


Red
said

Harper and his party took a month off at Christmas to stall. The Senate is just doing their job. Harper down played the economy last fall. What's the big rush? Things will work out in the end. The GM will go bankrupt on Harper's watch and the economy will be more streamlined. Weclome to the animal kingdom.


Mike
said

The process may be slow but it is still going through the channels much faster than any previous budget... even ones that previous Liberal gov'ts had proposed and the Conservatives held up in the Senate or committees.
Once again:
1 side is Right and the other is Wrong..only the players have changed sides....


Lillian
said

No wonder that Harper cannot fulfill his objective of an elected Senate! This senate is dominated by Liberals still . That's why changes haven't been made by this PM. The newly appointed senators have agreed to run for their senate seat when their terms are up. Do you think the Liberal senators would agree to do this? Don't hold your breath. It is long past the time that the senate was abolished. What a saving of taxpayers' money!
As for that Liberal, NDP, Bloc coalition , give me a break! This is a duly elected government , minority or not. The attempt by the Liberals, NDP, and the Bloc was not about aiding Canada. It was all about power at any cost. Flaherty is correct. Get this budget passed and do what is right for the country for a change.



Melanie Terrace,BC
said

Regardless of what you think of the Senate,the very fact that such a large number of Canadians consider it useless,makes it useless.
We can choose to let this level of mis-trust go on in perpetuity,or we can make the changes that make the Senate a body that is trusted by the vast majority of Canadians.
Right now,the Senate looks like a puppet to the Liberal party.If Harper stays in office,it could then look like a puppet to the Conservative party.Neither of those situations serves the cause of democracy very well.
As a westerner,I stand with my fellow citizens and ask why a Senator that is to represent BC,should be appointed by a PM from Ontario,or even Alberta? I also stand and ask why the eastern Atlantic provinces have so many Senators with such a small population while BC's larger population has so few?
The Senate may have made sense 100 years ago.It makes no sense now.I love this country,but,if we can't have fair and democratic bodies in government,perhaps the sovereigntists in Quebec are right.Canada may be to large and to diverse to go on as one united country.
I know full well I'm sick to death of being dictated to by a government that bows down to Ontario and it's left wing mentality.


DRH
said

So where are all the Liberal hacks that asked for accountability on the 3 billion now? As stated by Mr. Flaherty, this is allocated to projects that are shovel ready now. Try as you may but our government is doing an excellent job at trying to ease the suffering and all they get in return from is Liberal road blocks. I guess that all the liberal supporters out there must be well off with a good paying government job and not require any assistance. Go figure.


Albertaboy111
said

Three Things.

The conservatives never would have provided any stimulus whatsoever had the other parties not (literally) forced them too. Now it is absolutly urgent we get it out the door.

The money this article is refering to cannot be used until March 26. passing it now will not change that. It would be the same as if they passed it on the 25th so takeing the time we have to read it makes a lot of sense. Are they worried about what might be found if it is looked at carefully?

Lastly the conservatives still have large amounts of money from last years budget they could be using for these projects TODAY!!! Like right now this very second if they were truly worried about the result of delay. But everyone but the conservatives is preventing money in Canada from flowing costing people jobs.

But it sure makes for some good photo ops. Especially when your party is pushing for an election.




DRH
said

So where are all the Liberal hacks that asked for accountability on the 3 billion now? As stated by Mr. Flaherty, this is allocated to projects that are shovel ready now. Try as you may but our government is doing an excellent job at trying to ease the suffering and all they get in return from is Liberal road blocks. I guess that all the liberal supporters out there must be well off with a good paying government job and not require any assistance. Go figure.


Glen S.R. Woytuck
said

It is absolutely time to reform or abolish the senate. Personally I prefer abolish. Think how much money we could save and spend on more useful things than keeping a bunch of unelected freeloaders on the public payroll.


the old lady
said

Scott the Senators are appointed and there is no check on them. That is a fact. In theory they work for the greater good of Canadians. It very seldom works that way unless it is a Liberal Government in power. As we all know the majority of Senators are Liberal appointees. A very very clear case for having Canadians elect Senators. The present gang should all be dismissed and an election of Senators be held immediately.


ik
said

The government did not decide to take the month of December off to avoid the coalition. They did their homework to prepare for the budget that they promised they would present in January. The coalition could not have presented a budget any sooner. If you have lived in Canada long enough you know that the government never sits in the house in the month of December - they are on holidays.


SAM
said

There is a lot of money to be saved by totally abolishing the Senate.


A left-leaning Albertan!
said

The opposition and senate wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't look closely at the budget. Anyway, the Conservatives are just using the economic fears to sling mud at the Liberals and Senate and push the budget through without close scrutiny.


David in Calgary
said

I have expectations that I can trust my Minister of Finance to be truthful and not partisan at this time.

Is there any difference between the Senate passing the budget on March 29 and March 13? The Deputy House leader for the Conservatives said no.

Mr Flaherty was asked in the Senate Committee meeting if he was prepared to have the bill broken into two parts so the stimulus package including EI changes could be past quickly. Mr Flaherty indicated that the pay equity provisions of the budget were so important that he was would to hold up the stimulus package including EI changes to get the pay equity provisions approved first.

Stop the big lie; stop playing politics, if you want to help the citizens of Canada work with the other parties and get the money out. If you can’t, resign. We deserve better



Andre, Victoria
said

I'm glad to see the Senate taking a closer look at this flawed Budget. Most of this budget has nothing to do with some kind of stimulus package. The budget must be split in stimulus-related issues, which could be passed right away, and non-stimulus-related issues which require a second sober look.


Phipps, Ottawa
said

I am surprised at the amount of comments for those accusing Ignatief of holding back the stimulus, he has nothing to do with it, in fact he has asked it be passed in the senate. Senators dont answer to the political party they are affiliated with, Ignatief has no conrol over what decisions they make or for that matter much influence. The senate is the one place where partisan politics does not play a large role. Flaherty is misleading the people of Canada and this PR stunt is merely a smear campaign aimed at influencing those that do not understand how our gov't works.


Concerned Citizen, Calgary
said

As far as the comment made about the Senate being appointed to represent all Canadians - these are POLITICAL APPOINTMENTS!!! So don't tell us that they have the best interests of all Canadians at heart. They are to serve whatever political party they are connected with!!! And what a waste of money and now time - while Canadians are losing jobs, houses, etc.


Sharon B. Saskatoon, SK
said

Its interesting to see the people on this post wanting to aboish the senate or say that it is the "Liberal Senate" that is stalling or playing politics...and these same people do not want to see this stimulas package or "Tax Payers" money being used to support manufacturing businesses that are close to bankrupt.

If you don't support the stimulas package then you have no business stating that Liberals or senate are politisizing.

As far as I am concerned BOTH are playing politics especially the cons...they are playing that game again of dividing Canadians against each other or promoting their own supporters. When will our polititians, especialy take the example of Obama and bring Canadians together and work in a unified effort to bring our country into safe fianancial ground again.

ENOUGH !!! Grow up and stop these elementary political games...ALL Politicians work together and stop bashing each other with testostrone !!!!!


Robin, Ottawa
said

So, following the timeline set out in this article: regardless of when in the next three months the Senate passes the budget bill, no money can flow until July since the budget estimates won't be approved by the House of Commons until late June anyway.

In the meantime, the Senators want to exercise due diligence- which is their role. Yesterday, they asked Mr. Flaherty to break the Bill into two - one dealing with his economic stimulus initiatives relating to the current crisis and another for the other goodies (like employment equity) that he threw into the Budget. Mr. Flaherty refused.

Why the artificial rush? Why the desire to avoid the normal scrutiny that has been given for the last 142 years? Is there something that won't stand up?

Someone is playing politics and using the media to further his agenda - and it isn't the Senators!


Mal
said

By the way folks, nobody seems to want to report it but the 5 week extra benefits for eligible IE recipients....

DOES NOT INCLUDE TORONTO!

Only 21 designated areas are covered, sorry auto workers, sorry steel workers, sorry retail workers... it is a travesty that the press is not jumping on this instead of worrying about abolishing a senate that we can't abolish unless ALL upcoming Prime Ministers would choose to never assign a new senator to the upper house and that's not going to happen.


kate
said

Translation: We the Liberals want to ensure we are giving the CAW all the money we can even thought Canadian taxpayers overwhelmingly don't want us to give them a dime - who cares about them. The CAW is a huge vote bringer and will help us win back our previous status quo whereby we say step on the little man, to heck with the West - only Quebec, the CAW and Atlantic Canada gets welfare, the rest of you are on your own.


tc
said

To Scott in Victoria, Jay Ottawa and Tony C

Just because Canadians dont agree with the way the senate is and how it does business doesnt mean they dont know how our government works. So take your condescending attitude elsewhere. With the liberals dominating the senate this is nothing more than political stalling for the sake of it by political appointees from past and present governments. Canadians of all political stripes are pretty much fed up with the BS coming out of ottawa these days. We have a great country but unfortunately politicians care more about slamming each other, obtaining power and to hell with actually doing something good for the country.
When was the last time we heard any opposition party at federal or political levels actually stand up and say they agree with and support whatever the ruling government is doing on anything? I dont remember.


Mark -Vegreville, AB
said

Abolishing the senate is a very bad idea. We need to reform/overhaul the senate and make them accountable through having them elected. The Australians got it right with their equal/effective/elected design. We did not and we will continue to pay for this until the system changes.




Brian
said

Did anyone read the report. Even if the bill was passed today the money can't be spent till July. I think it is only responsible to take the time needed to make sure the bill has everything in order. While the bill is being reviewed there is no reason the goverment can't be putting things in place to prepare to spend the money.

I like the Conservatives, but this is clearly a poly to try and gain polical points.


Mary in Calgary
said

Do you really expect to vote on something without even looking at it? They are not Harper's puppets. He was the one to appoint so many unelected senators in the first place. Making us pay even more taxes for their fat paychecks.

3 billions is a lot of money to be unaccountable for? What happened to the 3 billions set aside from last year which has not even been dispensed yet. Use the money you already have! Where is it now Harper?


Domino
said

Obviously the Liberals want to stall the implementation of the stimulus so they can later say the Conservatives didn't move fast enough. Is anyone fooled by Iggy requesting the Senate give its approval quickly and the Senate dragging its feet anyway? You can't count on the Libreals to do something good for Canadians if it interferes with doing something good for themselves.


10668844
said

1. I agree that it would be better if we had an elected senate, but the fact that a non-elected senate is accessing time for decision making is not a bad thing.

2. Yes, it is decision making. If this was six months ago I would not have agreed that the senate was likely acting in our best interest. However, the current global challenge is so severe that the best interests of the country, for the first time in a long time, really matter to everyone. Why does Flaherty need to rush? Has the rushed stimulus package in the US done anything? Should there not be some failure?

3. The Canadian economy is stronger than most countries, but this has nothing to do with this administration. Under the financial guidance of the Harper administration we have seen the TSX become heavily weighted towards oil and gas, and almost unchecked growth in the oil and gas industry. One would argue that if there had been more focus on managed growth in the oil and gas sector that Canada's economy would be in better shape than it is now.



Robin
said

I prefer to have the Senate review the document due to the Harper government's glaring lack of openness, accountablility and transparency. Only the gullible, naive or hyper-partisans actually trust this government.


Marc in Victoria
said

This push to [ass the bill is a mask to prevent the public from seeing what is realy going on like the tearing up of colectivly agreed contracts for workers


Tony in NL
said

Mr. Harper's government will do anything to stay in power. They have been elected and re-elected again by giving Canadians false hope and making promises to Canadians that they have no intention of keeping . Why should we trust this government? Liberals are not stalling the budget, they are ensuring that the budget document is what conservatives (with their history of smoke, mirrors and deception) say it is.


Larry NL
said

Yes our country is in serious trouble along with the rest of the world. Our problem in Canada is more than the economic crisis, it is the Liberal party playing politics with the lives of the Canadian people. The senate that is made up of mostly unelected liberals are a reflection of the Liberal members of parliament who are elected. To hold our country hostage over a budget that could benefit the many unemployed people in Canada is unthinkable and unCanadian.
But this is typical of the liberal party. They never have wanted the average Canadian to get ahead. This shown by how they over taxed the average Canadian so they could have a surplus in their treasury and help their wealthy friends.
The money has to start flowing as soon as possible, and the sooner the better for all of Canada.
Another reason for me not to vote Liberal -- they cannot be trusted to do what is right for Canada.


waynestunes
said

Yes abolish the senate.Its not needed anymore ,never was. Its old out of date and out of touch with the people of our great country.We should have a vote to abolish the senate or an elected senate.


Wende marsh Calgary
said

I am getting really tired of this retoric, whenever an opposition party member comes on TV or Radio the first thing out of their mouth is the "conservatives cannot be trusted." There is a budget before the Liberal Senate to be passed with a package to save and make jobs for Canadians. If this budget is not passed I look forward to the Liberals and some what the NDP explaining to their supporters in Eastern Canada why the choose not to pass a budget that would have saved their jobs. Especially the Auto workers!


Joshua in Ontario
said

I want a referendum with two options:
1) elect the senate
2) abolish the senate

either is better than the status quo


Terri
said

The majority of Canadians want the senate abolished . Any poll that I have seen wants to get rid of them. I believe a senate elected from each province would be the best thing that could happen for this country. Quit blaming in on Harper.People have wanted the senate abolished a lot longer than he has been PM.


Al
said

What difference would it make to have an elected Senate? Ontario would still elect Liberal Senators and the West and parts of the East would elect Conservative Senators and we would still be in the same mess as the government is now.


Lee
said

Wow....I've never read so many unintelligent comments in my life.
It doesn't matter if the bill passes today or two weeks from now. The money can't flow for a few months (by parliamentary procedure). The senators have to understand over 500 pages of information. Within this there are also over 40 add-ons, which according to the conservatives cannot be removed, by the way they have nothing to do with the stimulus money.
THE SENATE HAS ASKED FOR THE ADD-ONS TO BE REMOVED, so they could pass the stimulus bill immediately, which was flatly rejected by the party in power.

WHO'S HOLDING UP THE STIMULUS PACKAGE?

WHO'S PLAYING POLITICS?....AGAIN?

Get the facts before you make stupid comments, bashing other political parties.


Marie W
said

They should fire the whole lot of them (Senators) for tying up one of the most important pieces of legislation critical to Canadians' well-being. Thousands of Canadians have lost their jobs or at risk of losing them and will be unable to sustain their families. Senators don't have to worry since their six digit salaries are guaranteed for life. We are going to hear about more desperate people killing families and loved ones before they turn weapons on themselves. Maybe it's time for us to overhaul this archaic institution and make them more accountable to the people and make them elected positions every four years. Shame on those liberal Senators for holding up this legislation. Stop playing with people's lives.


John E
said

Flaherty sure didn't know how the system works. Maybe if he had come in with a budget back in November instead of his boss porogueing parliament and being forced to come in with a budget, we would be spending the stimulus by April. The conservatives have once again failed in Parliament 101 and have proven they are not worthy to govern. Flaherty can only hope that Mr. Ignatieff will be able to convince the senators to pass the budget quickly. However, the senators too have a responsibility as the chamber of second thought to ensure the House doesn't break parliamentary rules.


DOCZone
said

I put the spending delay squarely on the Goverment. They are the ones who prologued the Parliament in December - telling us everything is hanky dory instead of working on this stimulus budget. Now, the senate is just doing their job as our gatekeeper and make sure the spending is what it meant to be. If Jim Flaherty did not know Parliamentary procedures he has himself to blame. Not the Senate and not the Liberals.


Mat in Toronto
said

It makes you wonder how bad this budget can be if the senate won't pass it even though Harper just stacked it in his favour.


Dennis
said

To the central Canadians that think we do not understand the senate, we do but we of the minority areas are tried of the centralist approch to running this country and the Senators are appointed by there political masters and play that game every day so stop your bull about us being the un-educated hick, maybe you should look in that paint brush and see if your in there before you paint people red or dimwitted.


Andrea
said

The senate needs to try to compromise with one another to get the bill passed, or else call an election, or abolish the Senate.

Canadians can't wait, we are in a crisis.

I think this govt is in crisis mode.


Jack Russell
said

The government cannot spend the money until April 1st anyway, so what difference does it make if the budget is passed now or next week? People criticize Iggy, but he has called on the Senate to pass it. Flaherty gets mad at the senate, but seems to forget that 18 of them are recent Harper appointments. So to everyone, politicians, media and the self-proclaimed experts and party hacks that comment on these discussion forms, just take a breath and let the government do its work.


Robert White
said

I'd like to see Senate reform too, but sometimes unelected partisan Senators can do what their elected Parliamentary brothers dare not.


Marie Wilson
said

Fairly, the Senate is doing their job. Not all the senators objecting to the budget are liberals. Off the 550 pages of the budget only 27 pages are money issues. Bill C-10 contains 2 pieces of legislation that should not be contained in a budget. The senate wants Mr. Flaherty to split these issues and deal with them separately. Pay Equity is one of them which is a human rights issue not to be dealt with by a finance committe and the Senators have stated this. Clearly everyone is for stimilous so, Mr Flaherty why not deal with what we need and settle issues that do not belong in a budget separately.


Robert Gerard
said

CTV has become little mroe than the communications branch of the Harper PMO/PCO. Both Ignatieff and the Senate have said they will pass the budget bill as soon as the government says where the money is going to be spent. If Chretien or Martin had asked for a $30-billion blank cheque, what would CTV's response have been? Different, I'm thinking


Jimmy
said


This needs to be reviewed.
The changes to the Navigable Waters Act will have detrimental, long-lasting consequences. In Ontario the recreational fishing revenues are in the Billions per annum. Under the changes proposed by this bill any project under $10M is fast-tracked. Thus new bridges etc can go up without any regard for the waterways. This was enshrined and protected since Confederation. Think of the damage!!!

Also, it says that Public Servants will have regulated wage increases. Not what the Supreme Court of Canada ruled 2 years ago! The Unions have the RIGHT to collective bargaining..this too the Gov't wants to scrap.

This bill has alot of hidden items that are BAD for the rest of Canada. Good on the Commitee for stalling this one. It needs to be re-written!!

Oh and I was a HUGE Conservative supporter..as were most outdoorsy people...

NOT ANYMORE!!!


André in Ontario
said

the senate is not there just to pass stuff for the government. When will all you conservative supporters wake the hell up. Who can trust this government when it comes to laws. I want the senate to make sure that it's the right thing to sign it off. You would expect the same thing if it was a liberal government wouldn't you?. As usual this government is twisting the truth. NOT A SINGLE DIME FROM THIS BUDGET CAN BE SPENT BEFORE APRIL FIRST!!!! The delay kings Harper found it OK to prorogue government for a month while the economy that he said was good was falling apart. This PM is nothing but a liar & is dividing the country with his comments. He's strengthened the separatist in Quebec with his lies. Don't forget it was a conservative that created the Bloc. Canadian must not trust the Conservatives.


Scott B. in Victoria
said

In this case, the un-elected senate is blocking the will of the House of Commons. The elected liberal MPs supported this budget in a confidence vote to avoid an election. However, they have the numbers in the senate to hold it up in an attempt to gain political points. This helps nobody and supports the call for senate reform.


Doug BC
said

People are just not getting it.Liberals and Ignatieff want these pals to fail.They just don't want to be seen as unco-operative,so they take the back door by getting the Liberal Senate to stonewall for them.
And yes,I do agree that $3 billion is a lot of money in some circles.But it's till a small part of this stimulus package,and it will be itemized and accounted for so voters can hold Harper accountable at the ballot box.Unlike the millions of dollars the Liberals spend on party advertising.We're still waiting for that itemized account.
And finally,IF we had a legitimate Senate,I would be first in line to praise their due diligence.The fact is,as "Melanie" stated so clearly,the Senate is not accountable.Nor is it legitmate,and it is not at all trusted BECAUSE the Senators are political appointees who serve the masters of the party who appointed them.To be trusted they must be elected by,and represent their respective regions.NOT a political party.
"Mark" is right.They got it right in Australia while we fumbled the ball.


Larry I Ontario
said

this government wants a blanc cheque to do what ever they want. Well Mr. Flarrety and Mr. Baird, guess what you are not in a majority and thank goodness for the senate as they are indicating your bill you want rammed through is full of nonsence in it. It is time Mr. Harper to get some real ministers that know what they are doing and not bulldogs


Ken - Calgary
said

Kudos to Lee for actually looking at this issue with the correct perspective, instead of the smokescreen partisan nonsense that has become the Conservative party's entire M.O.

The Senate TRIED to fast track the bill, but the CON party denied it, because their addons and addendums contain their idealological right wing agenda items. Because of the CON party's refusal to remove these items, it is on THEIR head that the Senate needs time to ensure that the bill contains fairness for all Canadians. Harper and Flaherty are nothing but coniving, manipulative shysters who will say ANYTHING to smear their opposition. Anyone who believes their lies should be ashamed of themselves. The Upper House is DOING THEIR JOB. Appointed or elected, their job does not change.


mcgil
said

Even the NeoConReform Senators agree that the budget legislation is unclear since the bill includes non-budgetary rule, regulation and law changing implications.

The Harperites have tried to make the budget bill an omnibus bill and that is crap. That is why it is being held up by the Senate committee. Don't blame the Liberal Senators. Read up on what is actually happening before making half-assed comments!!!



Pierreh
said

Checked out their web site. Since the government wants $3 billion dollars to be approved right away so projects can get going as of April 1, 2009 I looked for a list of stimulus projects which have been submitted to Treasury Board for approval. Looked for a list of the ones which have been approved. Looked for a list of projects which have not been approved. Looked for the criteria which Treasury Board will use to assess these projects. Did not find any of that stuff. Found lotst of pictures of Harper though.


Edwin from Toronto
said

Canada is such a diversified country.

In such a crisis, the US senates, both Republicans & Democrats, got the bill passed without delays.

May be Canada is much better off that we don't need the stimulus package to kick in ASAP.


Worried
said

Well these Cons are so special. If Harper wouldn't have been to chicken and prorogued parliment, then it would already have been passed. At any rate it isn't holding up anything because they cannot spend the money until April 1. Perhaps we don't even need a stimulus package as Harper continues to tell us everything is rosey. Why can't this so called Prime Minister just do something for Canadiasns without having to put a political spin on it? Why does he have to attach every other piece of legislation to it that has absolutly nothing to with the budget.


The other Lowell in BC
said

Well there is a large bundle of taxpapyers money at stake here. We are supposed to trust Harper's wisdom and honesty to be accountable for how this money is being used. NOT. Harper has not demonstrated in any fashion that he is worthy of our trust. He is partisan in pretty much everything he does so why would he change his ways on this matter. Having the senate provide another check and balance in the process is not such a bad thing. At least we will know that the money is not going to prop up a Conservative MP's popularity in some riding. The conservative's reluctance to divulge any details is quite telling actually.


Jim in Edmonton
said

Senators can do what they want because they are getting paid anyway so what do they care? Many Canadians need this money so this is a abuse of their power in my view. The Liberals in Ottawa have been sandbagging the Convservatives at every step they can, pass this bill or Harper should go to the people.


Paul in Ajax
said

Re:Nick in Gatineau
Thanks buddy, what you posted here was hilarious. I could never make something up that funny. Two years to approve a budget. Classic. You do realize a budget must be approved yearly, right? Otherwise Parliament, via the government cannot spend money or pay the bills. You know, stuff like E.I., health care, transfer payments, public sector, employee salaries, etc. Wow, for a second I actually thought you were serious.


Bill
said

Remind me again why Canada does not have an elected and effective Senate? It's high time that the Senate be completed revamped, including their roles and responsibilities. What a joke!!


Dan from Northern Ont
said

The senate really serves no purpose and should go.


Doug BC
said

If I was in "Iggys" shoes I would get on board the "Reform The Senate" bandwagon now,while there is a minority government.It only makes sense.
He says he wants more Liberal support from the west.He will not get it by avoiding an issue that is so impoortant out here.
He should also know,if Canada remains united,the Senate will be refomed by someone,some day.By doing it while the Conservatives are in a minority situation,he has an opportunity to have a lot of input into how that will be done.If Harper ever did get a majority,I am sure "Iggy" would not have as much influence in shaping the new Senate.
I am amazed that so many people are afraid of a step we have to take.Why would Quebec,or Ontario not want to choose or elect their own Senators? Why would we not want Senators that we trust to represent their regions and not the federal party that appointed them?? Why would we not want all regions represented by people they trust?
If we really want honest debate and sober second thought in the Senate,I doubt having Liberal and Conservative PM's is ever going to accomplish that.It will remain as it is.A body few trust,which is not accountable,and represents a federal party,rather than the region it is supposed to.
It's common sense.Take off your party's political hats and think about it.While there are some good Senators there now,the process and the body as a whole are indefensible in a free and democratic sosiety.


My views
said

This is the problem with an unelected biased unbalanced Senate filled with long time party hacks and friends who would rather try and disrupt the government from working for the people.

Time to get an elected Senate or scrub the whole bloody bunch of them.




Doug Singer
said

I cant believe the political motivation of these people...I personally have been unemployed since july last year and am in Dire need of the Ei extensions promised in the Budget. How dare Politician hold my money Hostage and Liberals wonder why they didnt get elected


Richard in Ontario
said

Maybe it's not a bad idea that the Opposition and Liberal dominated Senate, do not pass any spending bills. That means no tax payer money will have to be spent to save jobs. Funny though, I haven't seen any of these people saying what they would do to help the economy and try to keep jobs in this country. I suppose if the ecomony continues to go down, Iggy and his group, think that their chances of getting elected will keep improving... Oh well, Liberal politics at it's finest.


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