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Senate committee to stall budget, Flaherty says
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Wed. Mar. 11 2009 4:18 PM ET
The Senate finance committee will delay a vote on the Conservatives' budget so senators can take more time to review its contents, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said Wednesday.
Bill C-10, the federal government's budget implementation bill, is currently before the committee, which must review the document before senators can pass it.
On Tuesday, Flaherty appeared before the committee and warned against putting off a vote and denying the Canadian economy of billions in stimulus money.
However, before a Conservative caucus meeting on Wednesday morning, Flaherty told reporters that the finance committee chair has indicated the committee will delay the vote.
"That's what he told me," Flaherty said. "They were going to take more days to look at it and call witnesses. I suggested to him that he calls some unemployed Canadians and see what they have to say to the Liberal senators about delaying their unemployment insurance benefits."
Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff has said that he will encourage Liberal senators to pass the budget quickly, perhaps by March 26, CTV's Tom Clark reported on Wednesday.
"But Senators are unelected, they're not accountable to anybody, presumably they can do whatever the heck it is that they want to do," Clark told Newsnet. "And I think that's what's got Flaherty up in a knot."
Both Flaherty and Prime Minister Stephen Harper fired shots at the Liberal senators during question period Wednesday.
Harper called the senators "out of touch."
The bill allocates about $40 billion in stimulus funding and has already been passed by the House of Commons. If it is passed by the Senate by the end of the month, the money still won't be dispensed until July.
That is because budget estimates do not get authorized until the end of June, a system the Conservatives would like to change.
"This is archaic," Flaherty said. "No business operates their business in this way, so we need to fix that."
In the meantime, the Tories have set aside $3 billion in funding, separate from the stimulus bill, which can be spent immediately after Parliament gives its approval.
Flaherty said that those funds would go toward provincial and municipal projects - such as bridge and road repairs, as well as deferred maintenance at colleges and universities - that have already been approved and are ready to start.
Also on Wednesday, the Conservatives launched a website, ActionPlan.gc.ca, which the public can use to learn about projects that are being funded by the stimulus bill, as well as issues related to the global financial crisis.
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.


Comments are now closed for this story
Scott in Victoria
said
It's sad that as Canadians we no longer understand how our political system works, but associate everything to an American style of governance.
jackson
said
Marc - Kingston
said
Kevin in Alberta
said
Abolish Senate
said
Doug in Toronto
said
It really is pretty simple.
Perhaps a bit of the promised clarity and transparency promised by Harper would speed things up.
afraid of what the results will be .....
said
If the stimulus package does not work.
If the opposition fights this tooth an nail.
The current government cannot be blamed. They have tried everything to obtain the co-operation of the house and senate.
This country is in a mess...the members should be ashamed.
Jay, Ottawa
said
Matt
said
Quite simply they're a group of appointed naysayers to keep our publicity hungry elected politicians in check.
Being unelected they aren't accountable to the people or the political parties.
However this gives them the freedom to act in ways that may not be popular.
We just have to hope they behave in a responsible manner.
Elected Senators for all!!!
said
We don't need to change the number of Senators, but havign them elected and having term limits makes sense. We aren't in the 19th century. Only in Canada would we keep an unelected senate.
They used to have an unelected one in Austrailia, politicans said we'll change it and didn't, then next election were voted out. The next party fixed the problem. here in Canada we'll vote for liars after they lied ot us because we fear the other guy more.
Francesco
said
Reviewing the past history of the Cons, I would believe the latter untill proven differently.
CN Calgary
said
Ken - Calgary
said
Chris Ottawa
said
You see nothing wrong with this picture, a bunch of unelected people passing judgement on a bill passed by the elected MP's? You must be a Liberal and see nothing wrong with the Liberal dominated Senate holding up funding to the Country. Just so in the end your Liberal Boss can say see the Tory's did nothing for the Country during this economic hardship. The Senate must go or be replaced by an elected Senate.
Rob O.
said
It's a bit rich Flaherty. The Senate is NOT stalling. It is doing it's duty and you are using this soley for political points.
As for those who insist on abolishing the senate, please educate yourself to know what they actually do. They really are a sober second thought and not as partisan as you would think.
Pip
said
The Liberals and other opposition parties demanded the immediate spending of economy-boosting billions a couple of months ago; now they are delaying the budget implementation of the funds that would do precisely what they so vociferously demanded.
Political opportunism, pure and simple.
Ed in Dunchurch
said
For goodness sake approve the Budget as soon as possible and get these stimulus funds flowing and get more Canadians back to work and enable them to support their families.
Enough already.
Zhimmy
said
Tony C
said
Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said
They were not intended to be a rubber stamp for the House of Commons.
Why doesn't everybodt take some time and study up on our PArliamentary system instead of solely listening to uniformed suources ALL THE TIME !
I like the idea of the Senate and I do want them to do their jobs.
The Senate cannot easily be abolished nor should it be.
It is just another un-thought-out idea fo Steven Harper to join with his many many many other un-thought-out ideas
Stop filling these posts with un-educated and false thoughts.
Tommies
said
The government did not take 2 months off. They did the most comprehensive and detailed consulting with Canadians in preparation for this budget in the 50 years!!! The Liberals may have holidayed-the gov't didn't. But it's all for not as the Liberals will now delay it in attempt to put Canadians in a more difficlt situation for their own political gain.
Shirlee - SK
said
I personally think that there should not be an intervention by our governments other than to be sure families don't starve and try to implement methods so they do not lose their homes. Special provisions for the unemployed. Monies going to the auto sector is nothing but a sham, these companies sure didn't worry about the lonely taxpayer when things were swinging. Why are they crying so loud now?
Hopefully this money is used for the common good of our country, not by scam artists.
Heather
said
Presumably Harper and co. put these in with the budget to get them passed with less discussion. Well, that sneakiness has backfired.
The proposal to have no rules about the $3 billion fund is also enough to make the Senate realize they need to take the time to study every line - who knows what else is in there in the "fine print"?
simon
said
So Flaherty wants to rush now.
The economy was just fine a couple of months back.
They even prorogued Parliament and had an EXTENDED CHRISTMAS BREAK.
It now appears they want to close all files again so they can have a Spring Break with Blank checks to spend as they want. 20 BILLION with no strings attached.
I say to them " CANCEL THE SPRING BREAK AND GET DOWN TO WORK FIXING THE ECONOMY!!!"
And stop the TORY PARTISAN POLITICS!!!
Roger T
said
The senate should take time to reviw the plans in full details instead of any hasty decisions.
The bottom line is:
Money is poured into the economy to spur consumer spending while retailers/car dealers prices remained FIXED instead of adjusting their prices accordingly. The is still a HUGE difference between US vs CDN prices on big ticket items.
Til than no buying if there are no price adjustments on big ticket items that does not offer incentives/rebate from Gov't and retailers.
Saving comes before the economy!
Tired of waiting game
said
Flaherty and the CONS can't be trusted
said
liz ottawa
said
Nick in Gatineau
said
EVERY BUSINESS IN CANADA DOES IT. Its called FISCAL year. Quarterly results, year end results ? You know, financial instruments, SEDAR, TSE, OSC. Remember ?
A budget is exactly that: a Budget. It has to be approved by all levels of the executive within their respective timetables. No business blindly creates Budgets unless it is fueled by pure greed or, that they are at some point fraudulent.
When a Finance Minister does not understand that - we are in trouble.
Fact is, it can take up to 2 years for a budget to be approved.
Maybe Flaherty and Harper should have acted when they were being told of the oncoming doom instead of telling everyone there was no issue with the Canadian economy for the last 18 months ? !!!
Anne
said
Nicolas
said
Too bad its the Canadian people that had to suffer under both instances.
Reece
said
Mel from Calgary
said
After the Meech Lake and Charlettown Accords Canadians lost thier appetite for at least a generation to go this route.
This is how our system works if the conservatives don't know how or are deliberately misleading how our system works they have no business running the government.
Aaron Hynes
said
1. Senators are NOT appointed to represent all Canadians. Each province has a fixed number of Senate seats, and Senators are given "Senatorial designations" within their provinces. To take a random example, Senator Hugh Segal is one of 24 Senators from Ontario, and his Senatorial Designation is Kingston-Leeds-Frontenac.
2. Strictly speaking, Tom Clark is correct that Senators are not accountable to anyone, since they are not bound to seek a mandate from anyone to continue in office.
Jeff in Victoria
said
All parties should quit playing such games and get on with the work of getting the stimulus out where it is required.
Jim in Ottawa
said
Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful.
Marc
said
If I got this straight, late Nov. we didn't need a government stimulus. Now 3 1/2 months later, it must get passed without delay. What has changed in 3 1/2 months?
Greg in the Hammer
said
Bob
said
Why bother? by then most business will have tanked, the stimulus will be a year too late.
It is disturbing at the mentality of those governing the country. This is the fast action to kick start the economy.
One has to ask why they didn't act in the summer of 08 when it was obvious we were on the down slope. Now they all stand on their podiums saying this needs to be done or that needs to be done but NOTHING is being done.
Commentor
said
In this case, we should be glad we have an unelected senate, I feel better knowing someone read this giant budget before it gets signed into law.
From a rational point of view, this stimulus is poorly targeted, and generally a waste of money. I hope the senate can realize that having the advantage of being able to ignore those losing their jobs, and send it back to the house for revisions that will actually help those people that need the help.
ian
said
Mike in Richmond Hill
said
Richard Dobbie
said
BMM
said
You are confusing the $3B contingency fund with the budget. They are separate pieces of legislation. It is the budget that the Tories and Liberal MPs passed without amendment that the Senate is now going to hold up. The $3B contingency fund is a spending bill that does not require Senate approval. That said the List that you are both looking for is in the budget. The Govt cannot give specifics about which project will get funding at this point because the intent of the money it get projects that are ready to go moving in the Apr – June period before the rest of the stimulus money gets out. So it will be allocated on an “as ready” basis with all expenditures being reported to the House. That said the govt has said that the money will not be used for anything other than the projects that are on that list which was approved by Parliament in the budget vote. I think that given the extraordinary times that this is a prudent and reasonable approach.
The Senate and the Opposition need to stop playing politics and get on with passing both of these measures so that we start money flowing and get Canadians some much needed relief. One cannot help but think that the Opposition is doing this because it is to their advantage to have the economy stay bad and for the stimulus to fail.
Jim Edmonton
said
Joanne from Ottawa
said
After all, they are just examining what our taxpayers' money will be spent on. And if the money can't be spent until July anyways, why not take a few days more to look at the bill?
Red
said
Mike
said
Once again:
1 side is Right and the other is Wrong..only the players have changed sides....
Lillian
said
As for that Liberal, NDP, Bloc coalition , give me a break! This is a duly elected government , minority or not. The attempt by the Liberals, NDP, and the Bloc was not about aiding Canada. It was all about power at any cost. Flaherty is correct. Get this budget passed and do what is right for the country for a change.
Melanie Terrace,BC
said
We can choose to let this level of mis-trust go on in perpetuity,or we can make the changes that make the Senate a body that is trusted by the vast majority of Canadians.
Right now,the Senate looks like a puppet to the Liberal party.If Harper stays in office,it could then look like a puppet to the Conservative party.Neither of those situations serves the cause of democracy very well.
As a westerner,I stand with my fellow citizens and ask why a Senator that is to represent BC,should be appointed by a PM from Ontario,or even Alberta? I also stand and ask why the eastern Atlantic provinces have so many Senators with such a small population while BC's larger population has so few?
The Senate may have made sense 100 years ago.It makes no sense now.I love this country,but,if we can't have fair and democratic bodies in government,perhaps the sovereigntists in Quebec are right.Canada may be to large and to diverse to go on as one united country.
I know full well I'm sick to death of being dictated to by a government that bows down to Ontario and it's left wing mentality.
DRH
said
Albertaboy111
said
The conservatives never would have provided any stimulus whatsoever had the other parties not (literally) forced them too. Now it is absolutly urgent we get it out the door.
The money this article is refering to cannot be used until March 26. passing it now will not change that. It would be the same as if they passed it on the 25th so takeing the time we have to read it makes a lot of sense. Are they worried about what might be found if it is looked at carefully?
Lastly the conservatives still have large amounts of money from last years budget they could be using for these projects TODAY!!! Like right now this very second if they were truly worried about the result of delay. But everyone but the conservatives is preventing money in Canada from flowing costing people jobs.
But it sure makes for some good photo ops. Especially when your party is pushing for an election.
DRH
said
Glen S.R. Woytuck
said
the old lady
said
ik
said
SAM
said
A left-leaning Albertan!
said
David in Calgary
said
Is there any difference between the Senate passing the budget on March 29 and March 13? The Deputy House leader for the Conservatives said no.
Mr Flaherty was asked in the Senate Committee meeting if he was prepared to have the bill broken into two parts so the stimulus package including EI changes could be past quickly. Mr Flaherty indicated that the pay equity provisions of the budget were so important that he was would to hold up the stimulus package including EI changes to get the pay equity provisions approved first.
Stop the big lie; stop playing politics, if you want to help the citizens of Canada work with the other parties and get the money out. If you can’t, resign. We deserve better
Andre, Victoria
said
Phipps, Ottawa
said
Concerned Citizen, Calgary
said
Sharon B. Saskatoon, SK
said
If you don't support the stimulas package then you have no business stating that Liberals or senate are politisizing.
As far as I am concerned BOTH are playing politics especially the cons...they are playing that game again of dividing Canadians against each other or promoting their own supporters. When will our polititians, especialy take the example of Obama and bring Canadians together and work in a unified effort to bring our country into safe fianancial ground again.
ENOUGH !!! Grow up and stop these elementary political games...ALL Politicians work together and stop bashing each other with testostrone !!!!!
Robin, Ottawa
said
In the meantime, the Senators want to exercise due diligence- which is their role. Yesterday, they asked Mr. Flaherty to break the Bill into two - one dealing with his economic stimulus initiatives relating to the current crisis and another for the other goodies (like employment equity) that he threw into the Budget. Mr. Flaherty refused.
Why the artificial rush? Why the desire to avoid the normal scrutiny that has been given for the last 142 years? Is there something that won't stand up?
Someone is playing politics and using the media to further his agenda - and it isn't the Senators!
Mal
said
DOES NOT INCLUDE TORONTO!
Only 21 designated areas are covered, sorry auto workers, sorry steel workers, sorry retail workers... it is a travesty that the press is not jumping on this instead of worrying about abolishing a senate that we can't abolish unless ALL upcoming Prime Ministers would choose to never assign a new senator to the upper house and that's not going to happen.
kate
said
tc
said
Just because Canadians dont agree with the way the senate is and how it does business doesnt mean they dont know how our government works. So take your condescending attitude elsewhere. With the liberals dominating the senate this is nothing more than political stalling for the sake of it by political appointees from past and present governments. Canadians of all political stripes are pretty much fed up with the BS coming out of ottawa these days. We have a great country but unfortunately politicians care more about slamming each other, obtaining power and to hell with actually doing something good for the country.
When was the last time we heard any opposition party at federal or political levels actually stand up and say they agree with and support whatever the ruling government is doing on anything? I dont remember.
Mark -Vegreville, AB
said
Brian
said
I like the Conservatives, but this is clearly a poly to try and gain polical points.
Mary in Calgary
said
3 billions is a lot of money to be unaccountable for? What happened to the 3 billions set aside from last year which has not even been dispensed yet. Use the money you already have! Where is it now Harper?
Domino
said
10668844
said
2. Yes, it is decision making. If this was six months ago I would not have agreed that the senate was likely acting in our best interest. However, the current global challenge is so severe that the best interests of the country, for the first time in a long time, really matter to everyone. Why does Flaherty need to rush? Has the rushed stimulus package in the US done anything? Should there not be some failure?
3. The Canadian economy is stronger than most countries, but this has nothing to do with this administration. Under the financial guidance of the Harper administration we have seen the TSX become heavily weighted towards oil and gas, and almost unchecked growth in the oil and gas industry. One would argue that if there had been more focus on managed growth in the oil and gas sector that Canada's economy would be in better shape than it is now.
Robin
said
Marc in Victoria
said
Tony in NL
said
Larry NL
said
But this is typical of the liberal party. They never have wanted the average Canadian to get ahead. This shown by how they over taxed the average Canadian so they could have a surplus in their treasury and help their wealthy friends.
The money has to start flowing as soon as possible, and the sooner the better for all of Canada.
Another reason for me not to vote Liberal -- they cannot be trusted to do what is right for Canada.
waynestunes
said
Wende marsh Calgary
said
Joshua in Ontario
said
1) elect the senate
2) abolish the senate
either is better than the status quo
Terri
said
Al
said
Lee
said
It doesn't matter if the bill passes today or two weeks from now. The money can't flow for a few months (by parliamentary procedure). The senators have to understand over 500 pages of information. Within this there are also over 40 add-ons, which according to the conservatives cannot be removed, by the way they have nothing to do with the stimulus money.
THE SENATE HAS ASKED FOR THE ADD-ONS TO BE REMOVED, so they could pass the stimulus bill immediately, which was flatly rejected by the party in power.
WHO'S HOLDING UP THE STIMULUS PACKAGE?
WHO'S PLAYING POLITICS?....AGAIN?
Get the facts before you make stupid comments, bashing other political parties.
Marie W
said
John E
said
DOCZone
said
Mat in Toronto
said
Dennis
said
Andrea
said
Canadians can't wait, we are in a crisis.
I think this govt is in crisis mode.
Jack Russell
said
Robert White
said
Marie Wilson
said
Robert Gerard
said
Jimmy
said
This needs to be reviewed.
The changes to the Navigable Waters Act will have detrimental, long-lasting consequences. In Ontario the recreational fishing revenues are in the Billions per annum. Under the changes proposed by this bill any project under $10M is fast-tracked. Thus new bridges etc can go up without any regard for the waterways. This was enshrined and protected since Confederation. Think of the damage!!!
Also, it says that Public Servants will have regulated wage increases. Not what the Supreme Court of Canada ruled 2 years ago! The Unions have the RIGHT to collective bargaining..this too the Gov't wants to scrap.
This bill has alot of hidden items that are BAD for the rest of Canada. Good on the Commitee for stalling this one. It needs to be re-written!!
Oh and I was a HUGE Conservative supporter..as were most outdoorsy people...
NOT ANYMORE!!!
André in Ontario
said
Scott B. in Victoria
said
Doug BC
said
And yes,I do agree that $3 billion is a lot of money in some circles.But it's till a small part of this stimulus package,and it will be itemized and accounted for so voters can hold Harper accountable at the ballot box.Unlike the millions of dollars the Liberals spend on party advertising.We're still waiting for that itemized account.
And finally,IF we had a legitimate Senate,I would be first in line to praise their due diligence.The fact is,as "Melanie" stated so clearly,the Senate is not accountable.Nor is it legitmate,and it is not at all trusted BECAUSE the Senators are political appointees who serve the masters of the party who appointed them.To be trusted they must be elected by,and represent their respective regions.NOT a political party.
"Mark" is right.They got it right in Australia while we fumbled the ball.
Larry I Ontario
said
Ken - Calgary
said
The Senate TRIED to fast track the bill, but the CON party denied it, because their addons and addendums contain their idealological right wing agenda items. Because of the CON party's refusal to remove these items, it is on THEIR head that the Senate needs time to ensure that the bill contains fairness for all Canadians. Harper and Flaherty are nothing but coniving, manipulative shysters who will say ANYTHING to smear their opposition. Anyone who believes their lies should be ashamed of themselves. The Upper House is DOING THEIR JOB. Appointed or elected, their job does not change.
mcgil
said
The Harperites have tried to make the budget bill an omnibus bill and that is crap. That is why it is being held up by the Senate committee. Don't blame the Liberal Senators. Read up on what is actually happening before making half-assed comments!!!
Pierreh
said
Edwin from Toronto
said
In such a crisis, the US senates, both Republicans & Democrats, got the bill passed without delays.
May be Canada is much better off that we don't need the stimulus package to kick in ASAP.
Worried
said
The other Lowell in BC
said
Jim in Edmonton
said
Paul in Ajax
said
Thanks buddy, what you posted here was hilarious. I could never make something up that funny. Two years to approve a budget. Classic. You do realize a budget must be approved yearly, right? Otherwise Parliament, via the government cannot spend money or pay the bills. You know, stuff like E.I., health care, transfer payments, public sector, employee salaries, etc. Wow, for a second I actually thought you were serious.
Bill
said
Dan from Northern Ont
said
Doug BC
said
He says he wants more Liberal support from the west.He will not get it by avoiding an issue that is so impoortant out here.
He should also know,if Canada remains united,the Senate will be refomed by someone,some day.By doing it while the Conservatives are in a minority situation,he has an opportunity to have a lot of input into how that will be done.If Harper ever did get a majority,I am sure "Iggy" would not have as much influence in shaping the new Senate.
I am amazed that so many people are afraid of a step we have to take.Why would Quebec,or Ontario not want to choose or elect their own Senators? Why would we not want Senators that we trust to represent their regions and not the federal party that appointed them?? Why would we not want all regions represented by people they trust?
If we really want honest debate and sober second thought in the Senate,I doubt having Liberal and Conservative PM's is ever going to accomplish that.It will remain as it is.A body few trust,which is not accountable,and represents a federal party,rather than the region it is supposed to.
It's common sense.Take off your party's political hats and think about it.While there are some good Senators there now,the process and the body as a whole are indefensible in a free and democratic sosiety.
My views
said
Time to get an elected Senate or scrub the whole bloody bunch of them.
Doug Singer
said
Richard in Ontario
said