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Canada, U.S. worried about viability of automakers
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Thu. Mar. 5 2009 5:44 PM ET
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty says governments in both Canada and the U.S. are concerned about the viability of struggling American automakers.
Flaherty, in Washington with Industry Minister Tony Clement, met with White House aide Larry Summers to discuss co-ordinating plans for helping the struggling auto sector.
Speaking from the Canadian embassy Thursday, Flaherty said automakers run "an integrated business and that's why there needs to be an integrated response."
In total, GM is seeking US$30 billion from the U.S. government and billions more from Ottawa and Ontario.
Ottawa has said it would provide up to $4 billion in emergency loans, with GM Canada eligible for up to $3 billion, and Chrysler Canada up to $1 billion.
Flaherty said there needs to be "some assurance that this will not be a waste of taxpayer money."
Speaking to CTV's Power Play Thursday, he added, "That's the big question. Can (auto makers) demonstrate that this would be a good investment of taxpayers money."
To measure an automaker's sustainability, Flaherty said it's important to look at:
- legacy costs, such as retiree health and pension benefits
- a reasonable assumption of future volume of sales of motor vehicles in Canada
- concessions unions are prepared to make to competitive wage rates and compensation packages
Clement, in an interview with CTV Newsnet Thursday, said the focus is on making sure North American car companies are able to succeed in the new marketplace.
"This isn't just about GM, it's not just about Chrysler, it's about a whole auto sector that employs hundreds of thousands of people in Canada and millions of people in the United States," Clement said.
The visit comes as General Motors announced Thursday that auditors have expressed "substantial doubt" about the ability of the automaker to keep operating.
In its annual report, GM said auditors cited "the corporation's recurring losses from operations, stockholders' deficit, and inability to generate sufficient cash flow to meet its obligations and sustain its operations" as the main reasons for their stance.
GM also said that if it can't successfully execute its complex restructuring plan then the company could "potentially be forced to seek relief through a filing under the U.S. Bankruptcy Code."
GM wants to avoid bankruptcy protection because it would scare off customers who would be fearful that their warranties might not be honoured in the future.
Flaherty was asked Thursday if it was a concern that GM could still go bankrupt even with government assistance.
"Of course it's a concern, it's a major concern," Flaherty said.
"...Government clearly has a duty to be good stewards of public funds and quite rightly I think the Canadian people would be upset with any government that would not do as much due diligence as possible before committing any tax dollars to any company and any business and that's what we're doing."
On Wednesday, Chrysler announced it plans to eliminate the third shift at its minivan assembly plant in Windsor, Ont., which means about 1,200 jobs will be cut.
Meanwhile, Ken Lewenza, national president of the Canadian Auto Workers, said Thursday that his union will be holding talks with GM this afternoon.
Lewenza said it was "too devastating" to think about the possibility of GM filing for bankruptcy. He said the union will go along with negotiations as planned with the hopes of getting a new contract ratified by March 15.
"We believe the quicker we get this behind us, the quicker General Motors gets its loans, the quicker the terms and conditions of the loan are done, we can turn the page and get the company back on track without the negativity that's associated with this restructuring," he said at a press conference Thursday.
He said the union is ready to make sacrifices to ensure that hourly costs for union employees remain competitive with other plants in the U.S. and foreign plants in Canada.
However, he said he doesn't expect any wage or benefit cuts will be necessary.
Analysts say that CAW will have little negotiating power, given the crisis in the domestic auto sector.
With files from The Canadian Press
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.










Comments are now closed for this story
Mike
said
Jay, Ottawa
said
It's the end of an era, but nothing lasts forever.
jack
said
Hang on tight everyone ...
Pierre in Ottawa
said
Pierre from Kingston
said
Carl Brantford
said
Government bailouts only go to the pockets of those who want to protect their funds, very little will ever see the entended receipient.
It's a tough nut, but the only way out of this mess is to let the people do it on their own, we will have to anyways, and now we'll have to bailout the governments as well. Oh well, it'll just take a little longer and more will suffer, but not the rich, they're already bailed out, so we only have the poor to worry about next.
Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said
Other manufacturers from the orient are no doubt good cars, but so are GM's (and Ford & Chrysler)
It is up to us to prevent this industry from disappearing from Canada.
My next car will be a GM (as have my past dozen or so), but now more than ever, we need to protect Canadian autoworkers jobs or we will loose an unbelievable amount of employment (and subsequent tax revenues)and start a huge imbalance in our trade defecit with the USA
I have nothing against Korean cars, BUT that they come-in by the container ship load directly from Korea and they do not allow imports into their country. It is just common sense to support GM Ford and Chrsler in the immediate future if we want to keep our auto-pact with e USA and those directly and indirectly affected Canadian jobs (in the hundreds of thousands) in the car manufacturing sector.
Let's be bullish on Candian jobs for a change and stop shooting ourselves in the foot because of outfits like JD Power and countless consumer reports who aleays claim that Japanese cars are so much better - when the relaliy is that they are not that much better (if they are actually any better at all)
It is time to put words into action and support this incredibly important industry to Canadian and to Canada even if is is only for selfish reasons - our own good.
kate
said
Terry in Ottawa
said
Chris
said
I do not want to see the auto industry crash because it does have huge implications across the country. How do the billions of dollars in provincial and federal aid get to people who need it???
Frank Calesso, Calgary
said
Beth
said
So when exactly did GM attain god-like status to be allowed to keep operating with huge deficits such as these? Time to call it what it is. Over. Done. Finito. Seriously.
While it would be devastating to those working in the auto sector I think the devastation would give rise for a new car company. Nature never leaves a vacuum and someone would come along to fill the void. They always do.
Brent
said
Middilay
said
To all the brainwashed CAW workers that keep saying we build as good of quality cars as anyone else. That is the sales pitch to the world by your union boss. Time to come to reality. The latest consumer reports confirms you are behind every other manufacturer when it comes to quality. Toyota, Honda and others produce cars here in North America sans union and have much better profitability and quality. While they are also having sales losses they aren't bankrupt because they don't need to support 5 employees for every one that actually works today.
Time to say goodbye!
david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
Don't get me wrong,BUT,,when thousands of people lost their jobs in the oilsands,, no interveiws with Ft.Mcmurray's mayor, no whining and worry for the West!!
And here's the kicker,, I watch canada am [atv] and THERE I heard some coverage,but it was the local news and people were moving back to NB from Alberta.
Michael Hagios
said
It's called incompetent management under the leadership of Rick Wagoneer and unless you deal with THAT issue all is indeed lost.
Not much wiggle room for GM now. I was just starting to think maybe the Malibu was a serious contender for my next car.
DRH
said
Let them Go
said
Close them down let them all go get jobs that pay for what you do.
I wonder if we figured it out all the tax dollars we are sending them if it is likely close to what each of those union members pay in income tax.
Bill James, Terry Lacroix, Jay Grymes
said
Wasting our tax dollars on what is arguably an irreversible situation with GM is not the way to go in our opinion.
Bernard Romanycia
said
NS
said
Our family looked at the colt for example , as a small family car it lacks in leg space in the back, difficult to put any thing large in the trunk becase they made a small opening , lots of space but no way to put any thing in the small hatch. With todays powerfull 4cyl much better cars could be built with great fuel economy. Until North America finds a reason(s) to buy GM vehicles again whats the point in a bailout ? The average family cannot aford to go out and buy a 35000 vehicle anytime soon
we need low cost vehciles with good quality and good rates at the bank. The rates at the bank these days is running 9 - 11 % this is the bigger problem , it time the goverment looked at this as well
it pointless to blame or point fingers here . You cannot just blame the CAW /UAW . There contracts are bases on what the company was making , but times have changed . Whe nyo have CEO's still taking large bonus(s) , what not pay the workers ? I don't work in a union, but I am smart enough to know they have a place in society. This mess is the banks fault.
TVic
said
Sad when a corporation blames everyone but themselves for their problems!!
Phil in Ajax
said
John MacDonald
said
Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said
Do any of you realize how the loss of these automobile manufacturing jobs will horribly impact our economy ?
It is not something any Canadian should want to happen !. It is something we can collectively, positively do something about to prevent it from happening - BUY CARS FROM THEM -NOW !!!
The time is now to stop worrying about could have beens in past decisions by the big (3) and start buying their cars ! It is as simple as that.
No industry can survive if their products are not purchased.
Supporting Toyota and Honda, eben with their plants in Canada WILL NOT REPLACE OUR AUTO-PACT WITH THE USA
Wake-up folks - Keep buying those orientla cars and you will not only lose Canadian manufacturing jobs which will not easily be replaced, our trade defecit will sky-rocket, all of us will suffer as a result and ultimmately, we will have no other choice but to purchase ugly oriental cars
Is that what you want ???
Do none of you have any love for Canada ?
Now is the time to support the big (3) and perhaps especially GM. Has anyone of you calculated how many jobs AND tax dollars GM has brought to Canada since World war 2 ?
Let's all think what the loss of even only GM will mean to us all - It is a frightening picture and soon to be reality if we do not act NOW, by not only helping to finance them, but by also buying their cars
John from TO
said
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
Pat-Guelph
said
Greg in Cambridge
said
Gotta love those politicians don't you.
Don from Ottawa
said
Davey boy
said
cdn buyer
said
Chris
said
It is simply no longer tenable to continue to load the backs of subsequent generations with the enormity of debt that will be required to (unsuccessfully) keep this bloated carcass of failed companies afloat.
The question is which government has the stones to tolerate the whip-saw of Liberal and NDP vultures who will lay the blame squarely at the feet of the government. Watch for Dalton McGuinty to meekly shuffle his feet hoping to let Stephen Harper bear the blame. Ignatieff and Layton will thunder with righteous indignation and threaten an election.
Can't wait...should be good theatre.
tim
said
Stephen
said
It appears that the government cannot seem to coax the proper solution from the parties. Perhaps it takes a judges gavel in bankruptcy court to force the bondholders, shareholders, union and pensioners to take the cuts required.
Government's legitimate role here would be to provide Debtor in Possession Financing if it cannot be obtained privately, which due to credit crunch might be the case. My bet, the Chineses will by GM.
Ian
said
LET THEM GO
Deborah
said
Fatman
said
Over the past years it is evident that GM has had more than sufficient practice at squandering mind boggling sums of money such that they are now pros in at least that catagory.
If only GM had concentrated on building quality product at affordable prices they might not have found themselves in the position they are in today. Look at the Japanese Auto manufacturers and to some extent Ford Motor of late. Both appear to use a flexible business model fit for the time and adjusted to meet existing market conditions and trends. Contrast that approach with GM whose direction appears to have been, and I expect forever will be, guided by the philosophy that what worked decades ago will work today if for no other reason than because GM says so!
How dare anyone tell GM they are the elephant trying to keep up with a pack of cheetas in a cross country sprint! Within GM is found the biggest concentration of executive arrogance, and may I add ignorance, that could ever collect in one place - and it's been there long enough to grow stagnant.
So GM, appears you may want to belly-up to the trough of public money yet again eh? My answer to you, NO! As I see it there are more deserving enterprises sitting on the brink at this time who I have little doubt would use any funds provided via my tax dollars in a more productive way.
GM - It's time to drain the swamp - Exit stage right!!!
Steve
said
I'm all for supporting the North American auto jobs. THAT IS WHY I'd rather buy a Corolla or Matrix made by Canadians right here in Southern Ontario then buy a GM sedan built in Mexico.
Randy, Ontario
said
I owned two GM products, and have had to spend thousands in repairs over the past couple of years. I would like to support NA built cars, but I cannot afford to continue paying all of the repair bills. I recently purchased a foreign built car...we'll see if the quality is any better. If not, I'll buy NA again.
gilles
said
1. Allow to disolve the union. Get rid of management. Get a new team of decision makers. Basically start a new company.
2. OR let the other automakers fill the gap (I think Ford will make through).
David From Windsor
said
This is a global problem and it's will only spread and get worse. I agree the big three needed to be more diverse, but at the same time we as a country helped create this problem by buying foreign. We need to keep the jobs in Canada or we will ALL be waiting for our EI check.
steve
said
Shirlee - SK
said
Bob
said
Layton B in NB
said
Erin
said
Kelly
said
I hear so many stories of lazy workers, employees stealing and people drinking on the job. It's time we say goodbye to those useless employees and start fresh.
Those who want their jobs must earn them like the rest of us. If my work performance wasn't up to my companies expectations I'd be fired. My performance is measured annually. None of this contract talks for 3 years crap.
david sawkiw[saskatchewan farmer]
said
We buy all our overpriced tractors,trucks, equipment etc.etc.from manufactures located in Ontario because YOUR government forces us to!!
I tell you what fellas,, I will rush out and buy your GM product the very first time it rolls off the assembly line in Calgary!!! Thank you very much.
Cassidy Kanata
said
Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said
From your post about my post, I thnk that you think that I work at one of the big (3) car makers- I do not. I maunfuacture mixers in eastern Onatrio for water, waste water, mining etc.
You are entitled to your opinion too.
My belief is that all cars are terrible investments - All take a huge hit in depreciation. You need to keep a car for a long enough period of time to mitigate that depreviation loss.
Also,ALL car makers use internal combustion engines which are all 15% efficient. One car is no bteer than another in that regard, but loss of (1) or all of the big (3) in Canada would devestate OUR economy since it is with the big (3) car makers, that we enjoy the benefits of the Auto-PAct with the USA (our original free-trade deal - not with any oriental car maker.
I will be buying my next car from GM. I like their products. We need to keep them in Canada making cars for all of our good.
I do not believe that our Canadian economy can take such a big hit as losing (1) or all (3) of the big (3). We will become a have not county /rconomy and be lucky to sell our dirty oil, and un-wanted (And no longer really protected), softwood lumber to the USA.
I do not wish to overstate the case BUT...We need to do manufacture something in Canada ? How else can we produce wealth and jobs without manufacturing ?
Nancy - BC
said
And now there are reports that both Mazda and Honda are going to ask the U.S. government (and probably Canada as well) for bailout money as they are also losing money, just like the big 3. Here's hoping the U.S. tells them to take a hike.
Maybe it's time to close our borders to the imports from countries that don't allow us the same import rights. That will most definitely help our car manufacturers and employment as well.
Mike
said
Now it all comes home to roost. They thought they could do whatever they pleased and ignore the obvious trends and still stay in business. GM took their customers for granted and continued to build vehicles with built in planned obsolescence. It failed, they failed. Now they can pay the price for their stupidity and pride. Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson you might want to consider the pride factor as the reason for the demise. Its a common malady.
Dave From Toronto
said
tim
said
PTOL
said
Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said
about the cost of maintenance on GM cars.
I don't doubt that youe are telling the truth about your experiences.
What I do not understand is that I have bought (actually leased) GM cars for many years and have never had to pay (1) cent in maintenance costs. Any few problems have all been covered by warranty.
I would have thought that any car manufacturer provides similar garanties for problems. Maybe you were speaking about older cars ?
I just haven't had any problems...but more importantly, we have to decide if we want to keep a good source of income for Canadian workers, for tax revenues and for our trade balnce with the USA.
I will do my part by buying GM and I don't feel the slightest bit worried about doing so. I also know that I will have helped them (and Canadians) to the extent that I could from, contributing to the loss of such an important segment of our economy, to Canadian employment and to tax revenues.
I ask you to consider doing the same thing, at least until we are sure not to lose vitally important part of our economy.
Mel from Calgary
said
The best spending Canadians could do is put the money into Canadian research and developement, especially developement so the products could be brought to market.
As long as foreigners own our industry Canada's interests will be subservient.
Doug from Moncton
said
Susan
said
As for buying NA cars there is no way. One of my earliest memories is being stuck on the side of the road in my mom's Transam she had bought brand new. And there are several of those memories, they only had that car one year. My next experience with a GM was my husband's cavelier when we met. It was always fairly unreliable but the year it came out of warrenty it slowly but surely racked up 13,000 in repair bills...more than it originally cost.
Unfortunately we just don't make enough money to support that sort of car. It's a massive purchase for us and I want to be absolutely sure the car is going to be top notch. So I'll stick with my Toyota Camrys...the only repair any of them have had was my 1985 I had in highschool; but that was because I destroyed the suspension driving recklessly with it. My current camry now has 150k and hasn't had a single repair.
Tori
said
If they did not have financial issues before the recession maybe they could survive. Three years in a row posting a loss and no one in the company thought of restructuring? This is not an auto sector problem this is a management problem.
Any company who cannot come up with a solid restructuring program should be give NO MONEY from the government.
If GM goes brankrupt there are 13.4 billion reasons to never bail out a company again.
You have to give credit to the US government, they tried to help GM but, as predicted by many, in the end without the ability to have strong fiscal management there was no hope.
I feel sorry for the workers' families most of all. GM should have taken that 13.4 billion and given every person on payroll who is not a manager, a substantial payout to help tie them over until they could find new jobs.
I hope seeing GM fall is a lesson to all companies out there.
I also hope that the federal government launches an investigation as to where their 13.4 million dollars went. Bet someone is fat and laughing on an island some place right now.
M.E.H - Ontario
said
No bailouts ! Would have been laughed at back in the 80's and 90's.
I ensured making payroll before paying myself!
Free enterprise--you play the game, if you don't make the right moves, you lose.
Failure will sprout new business. Don't use my tax $$$'s for incompetence!
Vic, Ottawa
said
Larry NL
said
I'm willing to pay for oil changes, filters, rubber wear.
Do this and you will see a return market for your product.
After market repairs for North American cars too many and too costly. They seem to need repairs after the warranty expires. Are the on board computers programed that way? I wonder.
DCR-Toronto
said
Stick a fork in them..their done.
The party is over! Stop wasting my tax dollars on something that is bound to fail...REGARDLESS of how much money you throw at them. Spending a million dollars (or there abouts) to save a couple jobs is absolute madness. Then times that by a few million. Companys come...and companys go.....it is NOT the governments job to make sure they don't go under. These companys are an anchor on this country and the rope should be cut. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!
nc
said
Rob
said
Cal BC
said
There sounds like no hope and is a black hole to toss money into.
What's the point of having capitalism if we keep paying losers to stay in the game?
Best part they are still paying the CEO 5mil a year to do this. I feel for the employees but this is the titanic of north american industry.
GHW
said
Letting GM go into bankruptcy would be the best thing that could happen. It would allow the company to restructure into a smarter leaner meaner company getting rid of all the corrupt idiotic management, union contracts, all its debt, and the list goes on. Additionally if I were the new management of a new GM I’d move my plants to new cities too. Most of the long term union workers are spoiled needy me-me-me people made that way by a long term diet of union/NDP rhetoric.
Andre
said
The big 3 have been too chicken to deal harshly with the CAW and have signed lavish contracts which have made their product unaffordable and uneconomical to build.
We, the taxpayers, should not be made to pay for the mistakes of the cowards who simply didn't have the courage to stand up to the ridiculous demands of the unions. I don't blame the unions whose job it is to extract as much as possible from the companies. I blame the companies for not having the courage to push back.
Now, this cowardice is coming back to bite them and the whole industry is about to collapse. Good. Let it die and start fresh with new contracts that make sense for the type of economic situation we are in.
Oh...also, can we start selling some the GM's european products (Opel for instance) which are far superior in quality and performance to the dull and boring garbage GM produces in North America? (for those who disagree, one word...Aztec).
Mary in Calgary
said
Doug BC
said
One pick up truck we owned toted our family and our camper over 450,000 km before we traded it in.I seriously doubt that most of the people complaining about the quality or the price of GM's vehcles have actually owned owned one.They just have some sense of loyalty to another brand.Many people pick their vehicles using the same flawed logic they use to pick their political parties.Then spend a huge amount of energy defending their position.
I don't have the expertise to know whether or not these companies can be returned to profitability after this recession ends.And,frankly these posts indicate that most of the writers don't know either.Opinions should be considered only when expressed by someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about.Using that as a measuring stick,very few here would pass the smell test.
Tax dollars must be used wisely.And it's not uncommon to have genuine differences as to how to do that.THis will be a difficult choice for governments in both Canada and the USA.WHile I'm not generally in favour of bail-outs,this situation is quite unique.And,frankly if my tax dollars are going to be spend,I'd rather they were spend saving or creating jobs for people who will work,as opposed to mailing out cheques to those who won't,or for opening up sites for people to shoot themselves up with illegal and life devastating drugs.
IF there is a path to success here,we need to take it.GM will have to be creative,and the CAW can not use tax subsidies to support higher wages.
Jimmy
said
2008 Cadillac CTS was voted car of the year.....
That's GM right???
Jen
said
GHW
said
THIS IS CAZY!!!
Richard L. Provencher
said
G Gray Petawawa
said
Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said
Still, I always thought GM was unworthy of loans of any kind. It is at its core a badly managed company, so much so it allowed its union to dictate its opportunities. You can't blame the union for using the power weak management handed it.
For those who think letting GM die is an economic disaster, observe that continuing to distort the market by propping it up is even worse, because all it does is delay the inevitable and weaken the competition. Thankfully (?) none of our politicians will act wisely, so future generations can figure it all out. Sad.
Edwin from Toronto
said
NO WAY!!!
Put the money in EI system and help every canadian that is out of job, not just for employees of a failing american company.
Teddy G.
said
Pip
said
Unions are the problem
said
mike c
said
If the Canadian Federal Govt.
assists the car industry billions of dollars,shouldnt
they be forced to help every
other company with a problem?
IE...the airlines,truckers
etc....
Kevin
said
my '94 GMC has well over 300000km on it, no rust, and still runs great.
no problem.
hope they survive.
good luck.
Kevin
said
the delivery charge on the vehicle is usually more than the labour cost.
autoworkers do not make $72 an hour, contrary to that popular urban myth.
Lance
said
C from Ottawa
said
In this case the adage "The customer is always right" truly does apply as it was meant to: the customer will vote with their wallets, particularly on a major purchase like an automobile.
Why are people buying Toyotas, Hondas, Kias, etc? They're fuel efficient and generally better looking cars. People feel they get better bang for the buck. If they thought GM cars were better value they would buy GM cars.
If GM truly wanted to change its ways and recover they would have started doing so after they posted such a huge loss three years ago. They should have looked at their competitors and learned, made more fuel efficient cars, instead of cranking out hummers and other massive SUVs.
jenner
said
Al
said
AdamJ, Ontario
said
Ummmm JD Power....
2008 Cadillac CTS was voted car of the year.....
That's GM right???
*****************************
It may well have been, and yes it is GM, but the hefty $38,900 BASE PRICE is out of reach for a good portion of Canadians (myself included).
Miramichi Kid
said
Bob in Harley
said
Kelly from Med Hat, AB
said
GM knew what was happening in the markets 3 years ago(just like Ford which started to restructure at that time) and they did absolutely nothing to change.
How can Wagoner take a 5 million $ bonus with a clear conscience? Bob Lutz was smart and got out while the gettin' was good!
As for GM quality; there is none, and I have owned GM products which were the worst vehicles that I have ever had. I work in the auto industry but not for any manufacturer and GM's quality is declining even further. I know of 5 brand new GM's that have had serious problems within 1 month of purchase. They build 7 out of the 12 most dangerous vehicles. How could anyone have any peace of mind in their product?
From my experience dealing with vehicles over the last few years the best brands for quality RIGHT now are Honda, Ford and Toyota (in that order). Toyotas quality has declined somewhat over the last 2 years. They have had more recalls than either Honda or Ford.
GM is DONE. Quit throwing our money away. By the way, the woes of the auto industry have hurt my business substantially but I wont see any bailout.
Mark
said
GM should survive on it own or fail. The world will not end.
Creative destruction is key to capitalism. Free up the resource (people, money, materials) from the failed business to fuel the new ones.
No more handouts/bailouts to companies.
Let them go into bankruptcy protection and restructure. If they can't come out of that stronger then let them fall.
NORM
said
Life is good for GM management and CAW members for as long as I can remember now is the time for them to join real people suffering for the longest time. It's called cycle of life.
Edwin from Toronto
said
My friend works for huge suppliers of motor parts for repairs.
The best selling motor parts are for GM vehicles, needed as early as 1 year old GM vehicles.
Individuals may have good experience with their own GM but demand tells everything.
GM bankruptcy will not kill the motor industries, my friend's company got 50% rise in part sales recently.
Cassidy Kanata
said
George in Calgary
said
Maybe the unions should come forward with their own bail out package for the industry and buy into the product they produce.
Oh by the way I heard the diamond mines up north are laying off to. They also produce a product no one is really keen on in this economic cycle. Perhaps the government should bail them out to (actually they will since they are located in the NWT which we all know is continually propped up by an endless supply of government money)?
Tony, Chilliwack, BC
said
The production cost problem for US car companies
said
The US car companies have high costs because they are subsidizing the rip-off US health care system.
It's unfortunate and unfair that the Canadian branches of US car companies are penalized when they are more productive. That productivity is due in part to the superior Canadian health care system.
Edwin from Toronto
said
CAW said they build qaulity cars and they salary is fair. Now they can prove it.
Rena
said
the correct solution is but
you cannot continue building vehicles when all the dealerships have so much inventory. Maybe some of the bailout money should be given to the consumer in form of a credit to buy some of these vehicles. Last weekend we went looking at new GM trucks and the prices are outrageous. And to those who bash the quality of GMs products you are nuts I have never had any of my GM products leave me sitting and you talk about 150 thousand KMS on your Camry well my GM truck has 310+ thousand KMS on it and while we did put in a tranny for $2300 it was our own damn fault because we did not put a cooler on it and pulled thousands of pounds with it and this was only after 260 thousand KMS. The truck is still going up and down the road and does require maintenance but this vehicle owes me nothing. Lets see how much you Camry cost you after 310+ thousand KMS.
Laur
said
Gail (Hamilton)
said
Kent
said
Let economic nature take it's course and we will end up with a stronger more resilient economy. Bail them out and it will weaken the economy and it will be happening all over again.
Time to turn the page.
Lets use tax payers money to help all taxpayers.
Educating and assisting Individuals and small business makes way more sense.
But I forgot, we have the government and the high payed executives working on this bailout plan. Taxpayer get ready to bend over again.
Shaun
said
How much money has Ford asked for?
GMan
said
What guarantee do we have that after GM takes the bailout money, they'll start running the business more efficiently? Or produce better products? NONE!
All the bailout is doing is it assures GM that when they screw up, the government will back them up. So it's ok to keep running the business the way they have.
Open Mentis
said
I don't have a dime. I work 12 hours a day to get MY business off the ground...
Where's my bailout?!
If you can't get your business to be efficient or/and effective and you're running in the red (what a luxury, by the way), then it's time to put the key in the door.
As was mentioned earlier, someone/something will fill the void... So be it.
Peter Hunziker
said
Jeff in Eastern Ontario
said
Bob from Bolton
said
HOW....do these bailout packages help the ordinary man or women purchase these cars?
With out us purchasing, how in the world does the Government expect these companies to ever to make a profit and even think about paying back the loans.
LET THEM GO.......
MRC in Ontario
said
Sherry
said
Gord
said
Premier McGinty has also promised Hamilton Stelco steel workers help as well. Where does all this bail out money come from? Borrowing from foreigners that's where. Ontario government revenues has hit the wall and now we need to borrow 1.5. billion [that's with a B] PER MONTH just to keep the Ontario government going.
We need to batten the hatches and live frugally and meet the upcoming pain head on and just let the capitalist system sort these matters out.NO MORE BAILOUTS TO AUTO, STEEL OR WHATEVER!
Saverio
said
R. Murph
said
Vince M
said
You get 10 Special Paid Allocation Days (SPA Days) a year. You just call in and take the day off - with pay.
You can get help with paying lawyers in a divorce.
There is benefit money for putting your kids through university.
There is probably a lot of other hair-brained benefits available to them.
Any wonder they are going under?
Victoria Guy
said
I will not go into years of paying for repairs on a substandard product, I have to look out for my own finances and not the finances of those on the assembly lines.
The quality of GM cars IS NOT up to par. I was close to buying a Cobalt SS last summer, but the dashboard made of lego plastic and the tire pressure sensor failing on the test drive did not give me a lot of confidence. With GM's financial troubles I did not want to risk being left without a warranty, especially with a performance car.
Ian
said
I have owned 4 GMC S-15's and still own an Envoy.
When I started out I wanted to stay NA, thats why I bought GM, as it turned out I have had problems with every vehicle.
I have had nothing but problems with the Envoy from day one, it costs me a bunch of money all the time. Even to the point that I bought extended warrenty (which the dealer sold me and turned out to be a farce)
Recently had to replace tensioner pulley - GM only sell complete tensioner ($180 +) and a belt ($ 60.35).
Go to other stores and buy belt for $ 35.00 and a pulley for $ 17.00 (same products) - can you say GM rip off.
2003 Envoy (+ 40,000 dollars)140,000 km - rust proofed from GM dealer - rusting and the weasels won"t fix it !!!
Thats why the pickup in my driveway is a Toyota Tacoma - MADE IN CALIFORNIA - North America
If I was able to afford another new vehicle it won't be NA.
If I had the time and patience I would list every work order for the sh*t box, but I don't.
Have to go now - my TUMS are waiting!
ANONYMOUS
said
Greg
said
I don't like giving taxpayer money to the auto industry either but I do not like the consequences of them going under. Remember that if we eliminate that much competition we will be paying more for cars in the future. Look at a lot of the foreign car sellers in Canada. Until recently they had very little in the way of incentives and their vehicles are priced slightly higher. competition from the American manufactures has been good for car buyers.
regards
Art in Alberta
said
I am tired of hearing Westerners complain about the coverage Ontario gets, and I live in Alberta. The heart of the matter is, Ontario contributes enormously to the nation's economy; so what happens there does affect us all.
We need to support our governments decisions to aid the auto industry and consider purchasing Big 3 vehicles over imports.
I fear the worst if GM goes bankrupt. The ironic thing, should this happen, we'll just be reading here from the current nay-sayers that we should have done more.
Wake up people!
steve
said
John from Sask
said
The Hammer
said
And get the CAW Union Pres. off whatever medication he's on, because it's impairing his thought process.
Richard
said
Dick Varley
said
Trimmer21
said
donna
said
There is no way that any man is worth wages of over $200,000 + especially in this day and age. The big shots like Rick Wagner needs to receive a very serious wage cut and many other added bonuses too. The economy as a whole is in really rough shape.
It's not just the Automotive people who have had it good. Tell me, how many people leaving messages are working for under $12.00/ hour??? I am..... Stop blaming the workers for the problem. The babyboomers are the ones to thank. Times were really good for them, and now we are all paying for it.
DAS in HFX
said
GM, crap vehicles !!!!
I SAY NOT.
I have been buying GM products for 30 years, all have been new ones and never have I bought used. Everyone of these vehicles have been great cars.
My current vehicle a 2004 GMC Envoy has been the best Gm vehicle I have owned.
In the past 5 years I had to take the vehicle in for a small warranty fix that is alland that was 3 years ago.
The Envoy has 101,000 kms as of last week and it still has the ORIGINAL BRAKES AND NO RUST TO BE FOUND ON THE VEHICLE.
Just had it checked over and found nothing to fix !!!
Can any of you PATRIOTIC FOREIGN CAR OWNERS say the same about your cars ?
Edwin from Toronto
said
Subsidize every canadian to buy a new car at 50% off.
We shall see if we still need GM, especially those thinking GM is better quality
Dan LeClair
said
Greg in Cambridge
said
I'd love to buy a Van...anybody's but it has to get at least 50-60 miles per gallon. Where's the hybrid Van?
No one makes them.Why?
No foresight and they don't think getting better mileage is an issue.
Concerned Citizen - Ottawa
said
AJW
said
AJW
said
Edwin from Toronto
said
Why a company lost money when they sold the most car?
Simple answer, their business model is not viable. Buying more GM cannot help them.
Shawn
said
Ryan from T.O.
said
As for those bumper stickers that say, "Out of a job yet? Then keep buying foreign!" don't tell me to buy a GM, Chrysler, or Ford vehicle just because it's built in America. By the way, so are Honda and Toyota vehicles, right here in Canada! I'm going to buy what I feel is the best vehicle that fits my needs, no matter what make it is!
My only beef is auto assemblers make almost twice as much as someone who is building parts for the vehicle. They all should be paid the same. I have known people in the small town I used to live in who would come home from their parts assembly job just covered in blackness, while these auto assemblers come home looking like they just came home from church! Get rid of the unions!
Ian
said
Kelly in Med Hat, AB
said
D.K.
said
As far as Japan and Korea allowing the sale of NA pick ups and SUV's in their country...why would anyone even think that would happen. They already make much better trucks that fit on their roads.
Also love the comments from those that have only driven North American cars and trucks for 40 or 50 years. How can you judge the quality of cars you have never owned?
Ryan from T.O.
said
Willie Everlearn
said
And so they should be. GM is practically done for. There's oi point in throwing public funds into this bottomless pit. Our tax dollars would be much better spent in diversifying Ontario's branch-plant economy.
Ian
said
Close our borders? I cant think of one single Canadian car company still in existance. the Big 3 are American. You think none of the money is going into the states just as it is to Japan? But sure yes lets close our boarders and we can eat snow salad in the winter and buy logs from each other to keep our economy rock solid.
Dunny from Manotick
said
Our biggest problem in the auto industry is countries that only export to us and don't reciprocate by building vehicles here to export to home markets like Japan and Korea. The banks are also a real hinderance to us getting out of this mess offering up 8.99% interest rates when they are getting our money, you got it "our" money from the Bank of Canada at a rate of 0.5%.
Remarkable
said
There are to way to many brands of companies under the GM emblem that needs to go as well as Ford and Chrysler.
GM, Ford and Chrysler should get out of the parts manufacturing business all together and leave it to the experts like Magna, Martinrea and other non union companies, who have the expertise and the ability to build parts cheaper and better.
They should stick to just assembling vehicles, marketing and selling them.
The CAW and UAW should begin a practise that Magna has negotiated with the CAW, however these unions who have hijacked and demanded so much over the last couple of generations are going to have to start giving back more then they have already given back.
Big Jim
said
Joseph
said
I used to work in the Oshawa plant as a contract worker and before being layed off I already seen the factory being dismantled from the inside out. They are ready to shut down that plant the second the Americans tell them it's time to leave Canada.
Lance
said
James
said
Mike
said
Edwin from Toronto
said
A new business will start to hire them again and sell quality cars at a profit.
Or let the CAW own the GM and build cars in Canada for their own survival.
Don't tell others that I am good but I also need your money.
ken
said
I have owned many GM & CHRYSLER vehicles. I will say only that GM & CHRYSLER are getting thier just desserts. For years they have been building the biggest pieces of @#$$% and charging us an arm and a leg for them. I won't even get into thier warranties. In the real world only the strong survive.To GM i send out a heartfelt good riddance.I hope that the surviving automakers wake up and smell the coffee, because when it comes to quality and honest sales those will be the ones that come out on top
Peter1951
said
Looking for advise, Thanks
Taylor
said
I've noticed that people who buy Domestic brands exclusively only own those cars for a few years before replacing them.
I've also noticed that the majority of those who purchase import vehicals enjoy them for 5 years or more.
The Big 3's whole business model has been to sell car's and truck as "disposable". They should receive NO tax dollars. They've made their bed - they can lie in it.
Rhonda Pick Enderby
said
Isn't GM getting sued over putting the wrong antifreeze in there mid sized cars.That apparently eats up the plastic parts,and kills the engines?
Yep we should bail them all out!pouring our tax money down a endless drain.
Edwin from Toronto
said
A company lost $30 billion last year - GM
GM makes quality cars in Canada - CAW
Are they talking about the same company?
Give the money to Ford and help them build more cars in Canada. Let GM go bankrupt.
The amount of bailout should be in direct proportion to the number of cars produced in Canada.
Vic, Ottawa
said
Paul in BC
said
bwilson
said
"I don't agree at all with the quality issues that some continue to raise. It is just not true that Janenese cars are better than cars from thre big (3). Why are you so brain-washed into believe these fairy tales - Do you really want us to lose our Auto-Pact with the USA ?"
How about this for a fairy tale? The last GM vehicle I bought was a 1988 Cavalier and it had a crappy paint job from day one. When the paint on the hood started peeling and chipping after less than a month the GM dealer said it was because I was driving on gravel roads. I pointed out Highway 417 in Ottawa wasn't exactly a gravel road. I had to fight to get the hood repainted and it was still a crappy job. That is the GM Quality I experienced.
Last GM I will ever buy. So far my Caravan has kept me happy.
Bob from Bolton
said
Could you or could you not start a brand new automotive company with 30 Billion dollars???
Just an idea?
pat
said
robert dunning
said
M M B Ont
said
I don't know where these companies get off thinking the gov't or the people owe them. A poster mentioned Nortel is in bankruptcy. This might be the case but they have 45 million dollars set aside to pay their executive staff Bonuses !!!!!! If this is how the big companies operate, then they can find their way out of their financial situations. After all, we the poor taxpayer has to each and every day and especially after we lose our jobs. Furthermore, I wish our Gov't could stand up to these companies and say No to using taxpayer's monies for bailouts but then we would hear Iggy and Jacky-boy screamming Give-Give-Give or we will overthrow you! Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Taxpayers are speaking !
Dave
said
They GM's were the most Costly repairs over the years so let's save 2 out of the 3 Auto-makers - Let GM
Go now .
roy
said
roy
said
Don Courtice
said
Darren from Bowmanville
said
Les P
said
I then decided the Japanese had a superior product and was quickly proven correct.
I have recently purchased a Dodge Caravan and the quality of this vehicle surely rivals the imports. Though the american makes have taken a beating over the years, i firmly believe it's a case of bitter grapes.
Try one of these machines that Dodge has refined and honestly compare them dollar for dollar and i believe you will be relieved to see North America can still build a beautiful machine that we will enjoy for years to come.
I loved my Honda but i am reluctant to say it's a vastly better product.
FergusRob
said
brian, Cobourg
said
Dave Ontario East
said
Lorne
said
GM should file for bankruptcy and our government should not award any bailout monies to GM.
Quote - Lewenza CAW - "doesn't expect wage or benefit cuts will be necessary".
Give your head a shake!!!
Cuts will be required by workers and management if there is to be any hope of survival by GM.
Lewenza should be prepared to accept a 50% cut in salary as I'm sure he is paid quite well by the union.
The workers are the people suffering, but will have to accept cuts in wages and benefits in order to have a remote chance of job retention.
Vehicle prices by all manufacturers are way too high - unless they drop prices substantially, people will not buy, resulting in further losses to the industry.
The industry better wake up to this fact, before it is too late.
Canadians have been continually gouged by the auto manufacturers in their greed for huge profits.
Government better be careful on the extent of the bailout to this industry or else it will feel the effects of the public taxpayer (voter).
Linda in Vancouver
said
Of course we have the talent and the expertise to do it.But,like the "Avro Arrow",if we can't sell them in the international markets there is no way they can be made at a price we can afford to pay.The cost per unit goes down as the number of units sold goes up.
And yes,before everyone jumps all over me,I do realize the Arvo Arrow faced other challenges as well.But cost was a big factor.Just like the US built stealth bomber,building fewer of them raised the cost of each of the ones they did build.
To support industries of this magnitude,we need bigger markets than exist in Canada alone.
Xbar and R Chart
said
Volkswagen is a very well known German brand, however they have a lot of major quality issue's.
Toyota still has great quality, however their quality has slipped over the years and North American brands have made leaps and bounds over the last decade.
I'll never knock a North American brand, knowing that as a Quality Engineer and analyst, seeing how far they have come in delivering a very good quality vehicle.
The Germans vehicles are good, but people put them on a level higher then North American, paying more for their vehicles, when all along, they are getting the same quality for a North American vehicle.
The fable is alive and well that North American vehicles are no better then a 1980 Russian Lada, but that is what happens when a society prefers to believe in fairy tales then in reality.
Pappy
said
Adrianna
said
1. Their vehicles are proven sellers, and they aren't. GM dealerships have brand new inventory from 2 yrs ago they cannot sell.
2. They sell off their existing inventory at rock bottom prices, and hope to recoup some costs, while shutting down the existing model plants.
3. They revise their models to be more economical, better built, backed by better warranty, and even then, it will take them years to break into an already import flooded market.
4. GM workers take a paycut, and unions are forced out. These employees are overpaid (most of them don't even put in a full 8 hrs, yet are paid for it), they get more paid holidays than the average worker, for doing far less.
5. They have lots billions of dollars in less than 5 yrs, and have consistently made no changes to alter that. Giving more money to a losing company, with not much hope in turn-around, is a waste of tax-payers money.
GM needs to close it's doors, and accept it's loss, as to support them further would just be our loss in the longrun. Their employees are ridiculously overpaid (most work is done via robot), and most days they have no work to do. I don't wish I could say the same, because for what they get paid, two people could be employed. It's a ridiculous system that needs to go back to it's time bottle and stay there.
AJB
said
You've been greedy
Time to get a feel of what it likes to not make overinflated wages.
Time to thank the CAW for where they have taken you.
I pass along a quote from your distinguished president, Ken Lawenza, taken fron the CAW website
"Together we have built, and will continue to build, one of the strongest and most influential unions in the world.
In Solidarity,
Ken Lewenza
President, CAW-Canada
Way to go Ken. You sure called that one.
Is your EI insurance paid up?
You get what you deserve.
annie, ontario
said
With all the government (US) regulations on the auto industry, is it any wonder free enterprise is almost non existant.
The government gets exactly what it deserves,
Adam Student In Calgary
said
GM is . . . DEAD. Give it up and get over it.
said
Get Realistic use Common Sense
said
Drew in NS
said
And the opposition (Bloc, NDP, Liberals) continue to play political games by refusing to let the stimulas money begin to flow.
Jack Layton the Auto Sector are your people. What are the NDP and CAW's end game. Do you think destroying the Big 3 then blaming the Government will succeed.
Think Again
Inkmont
said
AJ
said
Peter MacKay
said
I now drive a 2008 Ford Escape and it has been very reliable. No problems of any kind after 90,000 km and I get decent gas mileage. The Ford dealer service has been pretty good too.
My wife’s 2000 Toyota Camry has 270,000 problem-free kms and it still works great. The Toyota dealer treats her like a new car owner, even though her car is nine years old.
From my perspective GM definitely has a quality and service problem. I’d be happy to buy their products but I don’t like being stranded roadside or wasting money on gas and repairs. GM will have to make some serious changes to regain my business.
James
said
PS - Canada isn't just about the Auto Sector. There are plenty others in this country that are sucking it up and restructuring to survive. The unions have killed life in Ontario so quit making the rest of Canada pay for it.