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Third child dead from blast blamed on Canadians

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CTV News Video

Canada AM: Omar Samad, Afghan ambassador
Canada AM: Graeme Smith, The Globe and Mail, from Kandahar on the Afghan reaction
CTV National News: Rosemary Thompson with the details on the investigation

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Tue. Feb. 24 2009 5:08 PM ET

A third Afghan child died Tuesday, following a deadly blast that is being blamed on Canadian troops.

The child has been identified by hospital officials as four-year-old Juma Gul.

The explosion killed two other Afghan children when it went off on Monday.

Juma Gul was injured in the explosion and was taken to Kandahar hospital for treatment of shrapnel wounds, which eventually proved to be fatal.

The exact circumstances of the explosion are unclear, but an Afghan provincial police official said the children were likely scavenging for bits of metal when the blast occurred.

According to some villagers, the blast came from an unexploded shell that was left behind by Canadian soldiers who were conducting target practice in the area.

The children may have picked it up, unaware of the danger.

"Unfortunately it seems they grabbed a large bit of ordinance and that bit of ordinance exploded," The Globe and Mail's Graeme Smith told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday.

But Jhazi Thor Jan, the father of 13-year-old Sardar Walli, one of those who died, said Tuesday that his son wasn't killed by an abandoned shell but was hit by a stray rocket fired by Canadian soldiers.

"When they were firing our children stayed in the house and when they finished practicing our children came outside. After that they fired again," he said.

"The rocket landed and exploded and killed our children. They are lying."

However, some village elders said they couldn't confirm that version of events and were unsure of the origins of the explosive.

Afghan elders in the tiny, grief-stricken village of Saleha reacted with anger on Monday, blaming the Canadians and chanting "death to Canada."

The families were so upset that they collected the bodies of the two children who died on Monday, put them in a motorcycle sidecar, and drove into downtown Kandahar to show the mutilated remains to reporters.

"That's something they normally wouldn't do," Smith said. "They're busy washing the bodies and trying to get them a proper burial as soon as possible. But these villagers wanted to make a point, they wanted to say 'Look you're hurting us.'"

Artillery testing

The Canadian military has confirmed troops were carrying out artillery testing in the region.

They have strict protocols about performing sweeps after such operations to ensure no explosives are left behind. An inquiry is now being conducted by the National Investigation Service into what may have gone wrong.

Afghan Ambassador to Canada Omar Samad told Canada AM the incident is tragic, but lessons can be learned from it. He suggested military firing ranges should be located far from residential areas.

"Whatever we do, we need to make sure we don't lose the faith and the goodwill of the people," Samad said.

Comments are now closed for this story

MP
said

We have GOT to get outta that country. Harper, bring our troops HOME!

Enough is enough.


Nancy - No money in balming the Taliban
said

Of course they are blaming the Canadians, there is NO money in blaming the Taliban.


Cameron
said

How many children are killed, wait, Murdered by the Taliban each week? There is no news story, no public outrage.

Where are the cries from Liberal Canadians on this one?

The Taliban, are a scourge, I have been there, I know first hand. They kill teachers and doctors. They burn down schools and kill young girls on their way to school. They go into police stations all slit throats of sleeping policemen. They will strap explosives to themselves and kill 20 Afghans to get one soldier.

This is who they are.

This is who we are fighting.

Please Canada the least we could do is learn about an issue before we have a opinion.


Andrew ex Navy
said

you are exactly right Nancy


Ali from Mississauga
said

Wow., its funny how no ones sorry that the kids died. Everyone loves pointing fingers., sad. How about releasing even the names of the parents whos kids died so we have some solid proof. Also some cold hearted comments., so much for peace a loving country.


Colin R
said

Just goes to show how hostile the Taliban are making villagers towards us in Kandahar. These same villagers have probably recieved thousands of dollars worth of aid from us, yet the second something bad can be tied to us, the scream death to Canada.

Taliban propaganda is working.


Daryl
said

It's a loss when any child dies, but we should be concerned that children risk their lives to find a bit of scrap metal to sell for money to survive. I hope that with our troops there that one day these children will be in school so they can at least dream about a diffrent future.


Mike G
said

why would they let there kids go looking for medal when they know its full of mines and UXO's...

Seems like someones just looking for a reason to blame canada


Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON
said

From personal experience I can tell your readers that our Canadian Military Engineers (CME)are scrupulous in detecting, recording and safely removing any UnExploded Odinance(UXO's) from areas in which they carry ultimate responsibility for their operations.

For Afghan civilians and media reporters to blithely imply that our CME and troops were somehow responsible for the deaths of these kids is patently obscene. Especially when our men and women are over there exposing themselves to real hazards of life and limb for these very same Afghans!

Canadian media and their readers should re-evaluate their naivete! Has anyone thought about the fact that perhaps a number of these villagers are actually Taliban sympathizers disguised as concerned relations who are providing gullible reporters with a juicy head-line?

From the most recent reports from Afghan officials it would appear that responsiblity does indeed rest with the Taliban for not disposing of these UXO's properly!! And what about those irresonsible Afghan parents who are letting their kids play in, what amounts to a minefield?


DANIEL H
said

Let's ask this question. Is it absolutely certain it was Canadian ordinance? Could it have been something that was placed as a trap to catch Canadians in an area they use?


Richard L. Provencher
said

It is a terrible situation to see children killed by accident as outlined in this story. Why is it when muslims kill muslims, it is an everyday occasion? When non-muslims kill muslims, it is a horrendous tragedy. It is time for us to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Time for the muslim countries to get involved and help their own people. Where are the soldiers of Iran, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, West Bank, Turkey, India, Pakistan and Iraq when their own brothers and sisters are being killed by terrorists and thugs in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq? Why, they are sitting on the sidelines where it is nice and safe, waiting for the next horrendous accident to take place so they can complain about the invaders. Wake up middle eastern countries, terrorism is a global war and the western armies cannot do it alone. When they finally pull out, who are you going to blame if your country falls apart?


Wayne Marsh
said

It will take a few million dollars and many more canadian lives before the government of this country realizes it is a lost cause. Get out like they want us to.


Lisa
said

Nancy - do you mean BOMBING? Although they maybe a far fetched co-relation to bombing and balming.
Sadly kids play with whatever they find - lots of kids were blown up that way after WWII. Unfortunately war kills and more often than not civilians.
This is not a Canadian war - get our soldiers home!


Judy
said

Use of the word "scavenging" to describe young people playing in their own backyard is discusting propaganda. Put yourselves in the Afghanitani place - troops occupying your country and leaving garbage that kills your kids. How can this planet survive amid all the hate on both sides!


Golly Geee
said

This is a very unfortunate incident and must be handled by ISAF with extreme care.

The mission is worthy, btw. Canadian soldiers, of which I was one, fully understand the good we are doing and how many lives we have positively changed.

Canadians do not know because Mr Harper and the PMOs office have censored everything about Afghanistan but reports of death ever since Mr Harper abandoned the troops, and the mission, in an effort to garner votes in Quebec.

Shame really. At least with the liberals, as a soldier, you knew where you stood and what the mission was about.

One hundred and eight dead now, in case anybody forgot. But I would bet my years pension that Canadians have saved thousands of children from premature death already through basic inoculations and humanitarian aide. Let lone our medical services...

God bless the troops and their family's. May He provide this great nation with a government worthy of the right to decide our troops destiny.

leadership that won't announce they are cutting and running three years prior to the resolution date, leadership that won't put our troops at risk for political gain at home.

Pro Patria


geebee
said

Lets not bother to mention the countless deaths perpetrated by
suicide bombers on the civilian populace, not to mention the random carnage done by explosive devices planted along roadways.


Ron J. out west
said

Yes MP, let's get out of Afghanistan so that thousands of children will be recruited by a terrorist group, women and girls are back to being treated like property, human rights issues are once again ignored, the drug trade will continue to flourish, and the entire country's hopes of every becoming democratic and prosperous will instead sink into despair.

Perhaps you'd also like Social Services to leave your own province, the John Howard Society and other such organizations to abandon your city, education funding for your own children to be spent on building more casinos and strip clubs, and that all sex offenders be released into the streets of your neighborhood. After all, I'm sure these things aren't perfect either.




JB
said

I am very sorry to hear that these children have been killed. Has anyone asked their families why these children were out collecting metal??? Was it to make more bombs to be used by their fathers to blow up Nato Troops??? How much money did these people ask for this time for their childrens lives??? We will never know!!


Scott
said

So Judy, when did you return from your tour in Afghanistan? You must have been there as you know exactly how the CF has occupied their country. Do a bit of reading and find out what the CF has done before you make a comment about the Canadians that have been there and are there now.

If people remember, back in the 90's in the Balkans the different factions also bombed school playgrounds and park killing many many children then would blame the opposite faction or even the UN. Remember, just because the media says it, it may not, just might not be true.

Thanks for listening


sherry Katrina
said

The comments from some are amazing - Judy, it's amazing how little you know but how much you think you say! You aid the Taliban in their propaganda with uninformed comments. "In their backyard" you have no idea what it's like over there - there are no backyards like here - Afghanistan is NOT like Canada that way and neither is the way of life - even at the best of times. and children WILL scavenge in areas where there have been mortars etc fired. The Canadians are NOT at fault for this at all, the Taliban are and are using this to spread false stories - as you are.

Terry in Ottawa
said

That country and the ethnic tribe mentality ensures that the conflicts will continue as they have for the past thousand years. We should have learned from the Russian involvement or the British in the 1800 period. Both Pakistan tribal areas and Afganistan are like quicksand for any outside force that enters. We must get out ASAP. This is not worthy of one additioal Canadian Life let alone the previous deaths. We have enough problems at home without attempting to be the Policemen of the World! And do not hold up the previous deaths as a reason to stay or else they will be for nothing.


Joce
said

I am so sorry children were hurt and sorry to be part of an OCCCUPYING COUNTRY in a war where we chalk up children's lives as collateral damage. We can debate the merits of the Canadian forces vs. the Taliban to (literally) death but that does not change the fact that Canada is an occupying nation in this war. We were not invited there by the Afghan people. If they are shouting "death to Canada" are we so sure that were in the right that we won't listen to them? Are we so arrogant that we will assume parents' neglect before that of those with guns and explosives? Are we so xenophobic and bigoted that we think the only way Afghan people can survive is if the "white man's burden" is redeployed all over again?
In war there is collateral damage, but we can't just shrug that off and say that if it's for as supposed better cause any one who gets in the way is stupid, wrong or unlucky. NATO and our government is setting the acceptable level of collateral damage way too high. The number of Afghan civilian lives lost in direct & indirect actions of the war since 2001 is estimateed at anywhere between 10,960 - 30,557 people. This doesn't account for injured and impoverished civilians.
Moreover all people have the right to self-determination: not occupation, SELF-DETERMINATION. This is not possible if Canada, the US and the rest of the usual suspects are interfering there. Please, lets stop kidding ourselves: this is not Rwanda. It's time to take our troops out. If Afghan civilians start begging for foreign presence in their midst, instead of condemning the foreign presence to death, then we can consider whether our presence there is beneficial. Please stop this assult on innocencent people.


Lost Cause
said

Cameron said "The Taliban, are a scourge... they kill teachers and doctors. They burn down schools and kill young girls on their way to school."

To everyone out here who keeps using these types of headlines to state the obvious bad things about the Taliban as the sole reason for us being there - the Taliban did ALL of those atrocious things and more back in the late 1990's, but big energy corporations in the USA were courting them, even had them flown into Texas to hang out and negotiate.

Why weren't we at war with the Taliban then and why are we now? The Taliban were no better then!

This is the big question that needs an answer. Why the change of heart? Is it okay to be a brutally oppressive extremist regime as long as you'll play ball business-wise with the West? Seems that way to me!


Jonny H2O
said

Sorry to say, but as a species humanity does not deserve to exist anymore or even ever. Look past the flags, names, clans and colours; two young kids are dead because someone didn't take responsibility for their own actions.


Peter in Edmonton
said

"Judy
Use of the word "scavenging" to describe young people playing in their own backyard is discusting propaganda. "

No your notion that Afghan children play in the back yard is a laughable testimate to the fact that those most critical of the mission and those so certian they understand and detect 'propaganda' are usually the least informed and the least willing to learn.

Afghan children do NOT play in the back yard. The 'back yard' is full of chickens. Not pets mind you but dinner. They do not 'play' in any definition close to Western children. They DO infact spend more time per day than most of us work scrounging, selling, getting water.

....

If you had the foggiest you'd also know that most of th roadside bombs are made from precisely these kind of scrounged undetonated explosives.



Nadine
said

I am saddened to hear that children died needlessly and I also saddened to hear that our Canadian soldiers are being blamed. My brother is there now and I hope and pray everyday for him to come home safely. Although it is hard to understand why he would choose to go to such a dangerous place in an effort to help people he has never met, I am reminded as to why he is there - They are not allowed to say much about their mission for safety reasons, but he did share this - when I spoke to him over the holidays he had just ended his shift guarding the childrens hospital so that it would not be blown up. This is why our soldiers are over there, risking their lives so that innocents may have a chance to have theirs. It takes special and brave people to do this. What we read in the media and see on TV is not the true whole picture - the childrens death was real and tragic and my heart goes out to their loved ones; however, the circumstances surrounding their death is less clear and we should not draw concrete conclusions based on the small amount of information available to us.


Ralph in Hfx
said

People should research a little about what "Islamic Fundamentalists" really are. These are people who, instead of being employed by their gov't (which a good part of the urban population are in the Mid-East, paid for by oil revenues), have become disillusioned with their gov't. Why is this? Because the Mid-East states are straying away from the original idea of Islam - which basically states that religion (hence God) and politics are intertwined, moreso than what Western cultures experience (the West tends to separate religion from affairs of state).

Now, you take a large number of disillusioned people eager to grasp their faith, which is inherently opposed to the belief system of those currently attempting to provide them with "aid". What happens? They will do anything to bring about the "will of God", including purge their lands of their own brethren, who co-operate with Western culture.

For those of you willing to try to understand why this war is happening, take a look at the history of how oil plays a role in all this. In the '50s, there were no roads in Saudi Arabia, now there are thousands of kms of roads linking every village and town. Ask yourself this: When did Iran become an Islamist state and why? I'm willing to bet oil played a big part. So then ask yourself: Why are Islamic Fundamentalists so bent on keeping Western culture and democracy out of their region? Perhaps they want to ensure their destiny of Islam becoming more powerful globally is realized by protecting their turf, and what's underneath their turf - OIL.

Research the fact that global oil reserves are not growing - they're shrinking. And where are the largest viable reserves? You guessed it! The Mid-East! Connect the dots people! These poor kids were likely not killed by Cdn UXOs.


J.C.
said

I find it very sad that the people in the village would allow their children to play or scavenge in the area described. They must know since I'm sure there were many previous incidents that this area is not safe for the children. Yet when something happens it is the Canadians fault. Whatever happened to the parents responsibilities. Also how can they say it was a Canadian ordinance without first letting officials investigate? They assume it was the Canadians because of anger since that is who they saw in the area last? or because the Taliban said so? This is a war zone and parents must take the necessary steps to protect their children. They should not be allowed to either play or collect metal from such areas, and the parents must take responsibility for not watching where the children go or what they are doing. This is a tragedy but I wonder if the people should be learning from it and not just laying blame as I have noticed they tend to do. These things happen in war as unfortunate as it is. It is not deliberate on our soldiers part and if the ordinance was set by the Taliban I sure could not say for sure that it was an accident on their part as they have little regard for life in general, only what they want.
I believe our soldiers are doing a good job in Afghanistan against tough odds, and a lot of propaganda as well.
Keep up the good work soldiers!!! Do not let this incident turn you from your ultimate goal. You make me very proud to be Canadian!!!!!




Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said

It's sad to hear of these kid's death's but it beg's the question as to why they were conducting these test's close to residential area's especially a school.Roadside bomb's have killed our soldier's in the past but with them there is intent by the enemy to do us harm but in this case these are merely test's and we should have a protocol in place for such action's.We won't win heart's and mind's with this type of thing blasted all over the media.We need to set a better example as we know these people are going to be scrounging around for every little piece of scrap copper or alunimum they can find to take to market as they haven't got a helluva lot.Of course there are those out there who would talk about the action's the Taliban take with innocent's but let's try to hold ourselve's to a higher standard as we represent a democratic and civilized order that we want to share with the world.Let's not bring ourselve's down to the barbaric level of the Taliban.


scott
said

Joce, really innocent people? Yes I have been to afghanistan, yes i have fought alongside the afghan national army against the taliban. Maybe you should take a few minutes and read into what the occupying forces have done as well as what i was mentioning before, the taliban would not for a second hesitate to kill afghani children to get people like you crying against the canadian forces and government. Yes it is horrible that children have died but lets look at the plain facts first.

Eleanor
said

I am thinking these were not left behind by Canadians bc our military are very well trianed!These children are brainwashed a lot of the time
if they come from taliban parents but even if they are not, it is not beyond the relam of possibility these terrorists are so barbaric they would think nothing of blowing up a few children to make a point about Canadian occupation to try and draw more peaceful muslims to their side.Its like a vicious circle of violence!
I commend our troops for their hard work and sacrifices and I do pray for their safety.I am also saddened for the innocent children who were killed.
Its good to try and make their lives better but I have my doubts you can change a culture that has been around for hundreds of thousands of years to be like ours even tho it is a noble cause!
I will be glad when our Troops take a less combat role and more of NATO steps up to the plate(wishful thinking)
Bless our troops and Bless the innocent children who lost their lives in this unfortunate incident!



Gillian
said

It blows me away how such a tragedy's only focus is pointing the finger. I think we need to look at the big picture here which is the fact that 3 young innocent children have died from a not so innocent war that our military shouldnt even be involved in. Canadian's are loved all over the world and now we have the Afghan people running around chanting "death to Canada"? It shouldnt be like this. This is just one of the many Tragic incidents that blatantly slaps Harper and us as Canadians in the face!! Get our Troops Out!! Its not the fact that our Military or the Taliban might have caused this, its the fact that it shouldnt have happened. My heart goes out to Afghan people who have to live with this and see this everyday.


atmobeach....Guelph
said

Children are killed and posters blame the children...they shouldn't be "playing" there....I believe there is no safe place for Afghan children to play or learn or sleep.
No wonder the Afghan population's support for foreign troops is waning...we have done nothing to merit their trust.
No food, no clean water, no hope...they are no better off than before or support would be on the increase. Read the headlines...this war is unwinnable according to all military accounts.


Bill S., Ottawa
said

It's unfortunate that the people commenting on this story hold such polarized and extreme views on this incident. Doesn't the ancient tennis match between right wing war-mongers and left-wing romantics ever get tiring to any of you? Obviously, we will never stamp out terrorism. A sense of injustice always creates a desire for vengence no matter what religion you are. It is still possible to make a difference in the safety and security in these regions with our presence there. However, if incidents such as this occur, the public relations for the Canadian forces suffers internationally. We invaded their country to fight a small group of religious radicals. No matter our reasons, we have to be careful, as it is thier country. These types of incidents create more radicals especially in countries already politically and socially frustrated.


Theresa
said

while the death of children under any circumstances is heart wrenching, we are at war. Whether you agree with it or not. I do not know of a war at any point in history where civilians were not hurt or killed in the occupied country.
And you say bring our troops home. Ok, then what? What happens to that country? the people? all the children that our troops have been keeping safe? How naive to think that our soldiers can come home and everything will be ok, that the needless deaths would stop. They would increase like a plague.
Pull your heads out of the sand an take a good look at your life compared to theirs. It should humble us all into shutting up about the pointless things we whine about and thank God that we get to wake up in this wondrous country that holds futures for all of us and generations to come.
It's really easy to sit in front of your computer with your cup of coffee passing judgment. We don't have a clue what it is like.


kc in alberta
said

Just because an area close to civilian population is already littered with unexploded ordnance is no excuse for us to add to the mayhem.

We should locate our practice firing far enough from civilian areas that such small children could not simply walk there.

Then we can be sure that tragic deaths like these will not be our fault.


J
said

The area has been scattered with unexploded ordinance (UXO) since 1979 when Russia tried to take over. It's a horrible accident but the engineers swept the area after the firing and deemed it safe again. There's still UXO killing people in France from World War One, do they blame Germany or call it a horrible accident and move on?

Makes me sick how the media won't wait for the full story to unfold and spout theory with no information given. I guess this horrible story is "juicy" and blaming our men and women in uniform for something that might not even be their fault will sell more papers and increase the charging rate for advertising space.


Peter 1951
said

This is exactly what happened in Vietnam. The kids were sent into the minefields to looks for the brass shells, and the kids were being killed. The Vietcong had hidden minefields everywhere and even today they are exploding when uncovered. The Vietcong still don’t know where all the minefields are as they forgot to map their locations. Unfortunately I would guess the kids are sent into the minefields in Afghanistan just like they were in Vietnam, because they say that the family couldn’t afford to lose a parent but could sacrifice their children. I know this sounds cold, but it is fact and it is just another ugly part of “WAR”. As Canadian we hear these things and in makes us sick to our stomachs. I say thanks every day for letting our kids grow up in this country. No wonder people are trying to come into this country daily. God Bless those Afghanistan children.


mario luigi, deep sticks bc
said

unexploded shells are converted to ied's all the time in places of conflict where one side is far more stacked in weapons, troops, and mobility. the other side has to improvise. this has been the game in afgan for a few decades now. the soviets used to actually drop mines in the shapes of toys around areas known to have civilians, kids are going to go out and play even in a war zone.
kids over there dont have playgrounds and parks to jump around in, the country is a warzone. some of us here cant see past whats on the tube. our kids are busy on thier nintendos, and we are busy with crap like reality tv.
the bad guys over there are in constant need of this type of munition. your own weapon used against you has a very high mental damage ratio, besides the physical damage. wouldnt doubt it if a few of these kids were actually promised food or a few bucks to look for this type of munition, this way no bad guy gets hurt and the foriegners can be blamed.
are we still looking for bad guys over there? if we leave, how will the pipeline flow through? why are the poppies still being grown for heroin? can peace ever be achieved between all those tribes that hate each other so bad, they are willing to side with whomever provides them with the best weapons and tech and cash, to wipe out thier enemies.
one kid, wherever, is too much. that one kid is your kid, my kid.


Kevin in Toronto
said

The ELECTED government of Afghanistan has asked us to be there.

When an elected government has asked you to stay, you're not an 'occupying force' as some people here have put it.

Afghanistan is definitely better off since we've been there. Not all of it can be attributed to Canadians being there but take a look:

- over 5,000 km of roads have been built or refurbished nationwide

- 530 councils and over 760 completed projects in Kandahar province (as of June 2008)

- Over 1500 wells, 180 km of irrigation canals, 600 culverts in Kandahar (2003 to Mar 2008)

- National Solidarity Program: over 21,000 Community Development Councils elected nationwide; over 21,000 projects completed (as of June 2008)

- per capita income has doubled between 2002 and 2007

- microfinance program: over 440,000 savings & small loans services clients in 23 provinces, including Kandahar (as of May 2008)

- over 80% of Afghans now have access to basic medical care (vs. 9% in 2004)

- infant mortality down 22% since 2001: 40,000 more babies survive every year; under-5 child mortality down 26%

And much more. This mission is about helping people less fortunate than ourselves. Unfortunately, security is necessary. We're helping give Afghanistan the tools to be self-sustaining.






Prof. Pye Chartt
said

TIRESOME DEBATE

We should be out of Afghanistan. We should be in Afghanistan. The Taliban are evil. We once embraced the Taliban. It's about freedom and democracy. It's about oil and big business. Islamic fundamentalism is a global disease. Islamic extremists are merely religious citizens tired of being politically manipulated by the West.

Blah, blah, blah.

You either believe that freedom and democracy is an underlying "right" of all those born upon this earth or you don't. You either believe in helping your fellow brothers and sisters on this big blue marble or you don't. You either believe in righteous efforts and righteous sacrifices or you don't.

Everything in between is hot air and worthless discussion. (The "grey" areas of any issue are most often occupied by hypocrites lacking any meaningful or educated conviction.)

Bombs in the ground. Bloodshed in the streets. Acid in the face. Torture. Imprisonment. Beheading. Destroyed schools. Maimed children. Zero gender equality. Hatred.

Either support just causes of improving the lives of your fellow human beings, or, resign yourself to a selfish world where "haves" ignore "have-nots" and innocent, freedom-wanting people suffer at the hands of immoral oppressors.

Decide which person YOU are, and move on towards exercising consistency in your thoughts, beliefs, and actions.


Zhimmy
said

Taliban propaganda!

I suppose that 2 kids wasn't enough to warrant enough attention. So today's its now 3. This is a Vietnames tactic to start to get us to believe our soliders are "Baby Killers!" I don't believe them for a second!


Tono
said

I hope everyone is aware that one of the biggest contributions to the collapse of the Soviet Union, was their inability to end their financially expensive occupation of Afghanistan...


Alberta Believer
said

We believe that we should be there and we believe that we're helping, but are we? Do they appreciate us there? I mean yes we help out people the world over in parts of Africa, Asia, Latin America and the Carribbean, but honestly ask yourselves out of the several dozen countries that Canada has assisted over the decades, say since WWII how many have been central Asian orthodox Muslim countries?

Yes we treat some of their sick children and our military engineers build wells, and we assist in allowing girls to go to school but do you honestly think that these people (again orthodox Muslims) are going to adopt Canadian or even western values? Do you think the progress will last?
I mean its one thing for a mother of a sick child to thank the nurse who healed their chidl, its another thing for that same mother to accept that child's say future embrace of Christianity or homosexuality in a place like Afghanistan.

I'm all for being their to curtail the damage that the Taliban could do to us or our allies but seriously, transform a society in which the residents as a matter of faith based principle see us and our values as satanic? No they are not all Taliban adherants but orthodox Muslims are diametrically opposed to our way of life and on religious grounds.


Jim in Ottawa
said

The situation in the region will improved through continued commitment to the mission.

Let us allow the investigation to continue before casting judgment on the entire mission.


Troy
said

Interesting that none of the Canadian news orginizations have bothered to quote the leader of the protest. Here is what CNN has them saying.

" Mohd went in front of the Kandahar Provincial Council and the governor's office, shouting in protest against NATO and the Afghan government.

"We want Mullah Omar, we want a Taliban government," he shouted."




Joebuda
said

Sad that 3 children were killed. But leave Afghanistan? What do you think will happen? I will tell you! The current government will fall. The Taliban will be back to their old "tricks" in no time ( abusing women, killing those who don't agree with their ideals). And do you think that Al Qaeda will say "Oh they left, let's be friends".No they will see this as weakness and step up their attacks all over the world. And as for children dying. These scumbags have and will continue to attack places where children congregate and claim it is Allah's will.So pulling out of that dump is the worst thing we can do unless we can deal with more innocent people dying because of our inaction. So if you can handle the blood of innocents on your then please leave our great country that is known the worldover for protecting those who can't protect themselves.

Kevin in T.O.
said

This is fodder for the anti war movement to say we should not be there because we are not wanted. This is a tough war its a war to win the hearts and minds of people who have hatred, contempt and distrust of Western civilization. It takes years and it takes commitment globally. Lives will be lost, blood will be shed but if we stick together we can prevail. Freedom and democracy is the most powerful tool against terrorism and oppression. We must continue the good fight.


Donny in Edmonton
said

I'm not convinced that Canada is to blame for these childrens deaths. Yes, bad stuff happens in war, live with it. But in this case I'm seeing alot of similarites to other parts of history. In Vietnam, VC would slaughter almost entire villages and then blame the Americans so they could strengthen their cause. And here we are, Canadians in Afghanistan. Bomb blows up, kills some kids, two minutes later an angry mob screaming 'death to Canada' and 'we want the Taliban'. Put two and two together here.

And also consider the theory that maybe the shell that was left behind wasn't from Canadians. Don't forget that we aren't the only ones who are there or have been there in the past.

And shame on anyone at home who dares badmouth our brave soldiers. If you're not going to stand up for our troops, then do us all a favour and stand in front of them.


John in Calgary
said

To the Afghan people,

I'm sorry to hear for your loss. I think I can speak for every Canadian when I say it is not our intention to kill civilians. The unfortunate thing is that it happens.

I don't believe this war should stop and if an extension is needed in 2011 then I would support it. I wish all of you would help our troops in identifying the Taliban, it would bring this war to a speedy conclusion.

I wish you could look outside the box for a minute and realize that a four year old should not be trying to salvage metal to gain an extra couple dollars. They should be playing in safe parks with swings and slides, they should be going to pre-school. They should be getting ready for kindergarten.

I want nothing more than this war to end so that we can work with you and help you build your country. To give you the freedom and recources to have parks, schools, business, government for the people, and an economy that will make your entire people better off.

Right now you are ranked as one of the poorest country's in the world, all we're trying to do is help, so please stop blaming us and help us end the war, after all it is your people who are helping both sides of this battle.


megan -military wife
said

i just have to say that i am not shocked at the reponses in this article. again it is displayed the lack of knowldge people have on what our military is doing in afghanistan and these are the people standing up saying bring our troops home.

has anyone stopped to think about what the allegations are doing to our troops that are serving right now. they are there doing a mission that many of them fully belive and support lets not forget this is a voluntary army. and now they are being accused of killing children on purpose.

i lost faith in the media a very LONG time ago. majority of the stories they report are always negative and makes me wonder just who they are supporting. it would be nice if they started to display some of the good things that has been done in that country.


To The Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON
said

You, sir, have a grasp of the situation that seems to ring with truth and common sence!
Your view, the views of most of my peers, and my own, are very much alike.
Well said.


Concerned Canadian
said

Ralph in Hfx

You are correct in blaming oil for what is going on in this region. The U.S. was negotiating a deal to bring a pipeline across Afghanistan until the Taliban turned the deal down. After the invasion of Afghanistan, however, the deal is going ahead.

Canada's mission is, in part, to keep the Taliban at bay so U.S. energy companies can make money. We are no doubt helping these people, but let's not kid ourselves about the primary motivation for being there.

You ask why Iran is a fundamentalist state - it always has been culturally, but the U.S. installed the Shah there through the CIA in the '60's in order to put missiles on their territory aimed at Russia. Then the people got tired of the tyrannical rule of the Shah, and rebelled, turning back to their fundamentalist roots. U.S. foreign policy has made Iran what it is today.

Iran also has large oil reserves, and the U.S. needs those reserves, as well as those in Iraq, because of Reagan's dismantling of Carter's energy policies in the 70's. Had he not done so, the U.S. would not be dependent on foreign oil, and U.S. foreign policy would not have created the basis for terrorism in the region.

But your conclusion does not follow from your discussion - the fact that this is fundamentally about oil has nothing to do with the question of whether these children died from a Canadian mistake.

Nor does the fact that the Taliban kill children in any way justify Canada's role in this incident, if in fact we are guilty. This is the logical fallacy known as "pointing to another evil." We cannot justify our own moral failings by pointing to the evil done by others.


Wayne in Saskatchewan
said

Hey...Donny in Edmonton...

I wonder if you would feel the same if your children died in a war.

FACT IS...Canada should have no part in a war in Afghanistan.
Last time I checked, nobody forced anyone to join the army.

Too many good people are dying in vain.


Ryder
said

Anyone willing to bet that after our soldiers carried out their sweeps that the cowardly Taliban planted an IED knowing full well that it would injure/kill civilians and that the blame would be directed at the Canadians! That is a typical tactic of the Taliban, make the troops appear to be the bad guys.


Mr Chillz
said

Enough is enough,...

There is no "mission" there,....bring our kids home now and send our politicians instead,...


Ben
said

These folks in Afghanistan say "they are lying" followed by "death to Canada"? This does not compound a tragedy, it cheapens it. MP, it seems to me you're so against the notion of our country being present in Afghanistan that you're forgetting what will happen if we leave prematurely. Finally, please remember the nature of the Taliban in relation to these villagers. If these villagers take an anti-Taliban stance, they will pay the price for it. We're not dealing with uniformed enemies, we're dealing with cowards who dress like everyday people driving everyday vehicles and striking in such a way to deliver terror as a mean of control. Road-side bombs don't judge combatent from civilian, our soldiers do and I support them 100%.


Willie Everlearn
said

It's unfortunate those kids died. It's a risk of living in a permanent war zone. Let's get a few things straight, however: before dragging the Canadian Army through the mud, the media should also point out that our engineers are extremely meticulous in sanitizing range areas. I know this for a fact; not second/third hand hearsay. Afghan children don't play; they are busy from a young age helping the family eke a living. They could have been rummaging, as reported, for metal to recycle or they could have been sent, by the same people who now chant "Death to Canada", to recover any unexploded ordonance for material to assemble an improvised road-side bomb.

The fact that their story is changing with the death of the third child tells me it wouldn't stand up to a whole lot of scrutiny, which the media is apparently not about to get into.


Kelsey
said

Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON:

I don't agree with you, and many others who have commented on this story.
First off, do you think that the parents of the children wanted them (the soldiers) to practice firing so close to their village? Would YOU ever do practice firing in the fields close to HWY 15 near high schools?... or, as you claim, those parents who let their children play in a *minefield, do you think they asked for those mines there??
It is not only possible, but likely that this was a horrible accident, that canada and ultimetly Harper is to blame. I'm not saying it's acceptable, just that we can't disregard something that happened as 'Lying Taliban Supporters'
Has the US ever done the same (accidently killing innocent civis)? It happens a lot, and I bet you don't think THAT'S all lies. It seems this war is giving Canada a bad name overseas, ect, and once again, who is to blame? Harper, for following Bush and holding his you know what all the way.

I think that if a country needs to be invaded for crimes against humanity, there should be a world army run by the UN that soldiers from any country can join, and fight for the good of that country, instead of, for example, the US basically bringing in Canada to this hugely unpopular war, that any educated open-minded person can see was just Bush being the ignorant leader he was and created it (the war) if You expect ME to support our troops, how about they fight for something worthwhile, NOT OIL. I support freedom, justice, and the right to choose. I choose not to support a war that was invented by the worst leader in the last ....well ...EVER.


Marko Tesla
said

If an unexploded ordinance were left in a field in Canada and a child picked it up, there would be serious charges leveled against the people responsible for leaving the ordinance behind. This is a woeful example of negligence that can not be easily justified or explained away.

The fact that artillery practice occurs so near civilians and in areas that people can walk about in is mind boggling;

were there no foothills that were out of reach of children? is Afghanistan such a small place that artillery target practice needs to occur in populated areas?

these are questions that we need to ask the officers responsible for this gross loss of life.


Joseph
said

This is a war and yes people, innocent people get killed. It's ok for them to kill our troops up, but hey, watch out when their own are killed. Of course they're going to say it's children that are being killed, do we know that for sure. I served over there, and no sympathy from me.



Afghan vet
said

"Ron J. out west", what you said was like music to my ears. good job


SANDIE_b
said

this is a 'no win' situation. bring our troops home and leave these people to their own devices. they don't want our help. just get our boys out of there!!!!


Lost Cause
said

Prof Pye Chartt said "TIRESOME DEBATE. We should be out of Afghanistan. We should be in Afghanistan. The Taliban are evil. We once embraced the Taliban. It's about freedom and democracy. It's about oil and big business. Islamic fundamentalism is a global disease. Islamic extremists are merely religious citizens tired of being politically manipulated by the West.

Blah, blah, blah."


...and Prof Pye Chartt then proceeded to launch into a self-congratulatory tirade about why we should be in Afghanistan.

Thank you Mr. Pye Chartt for adding another one of the "blah" points you identified up there to the debate that you claim to be so sick and tired of.

Now can someone please answer the question as to why we and the USA weren't at war with the Taliban in the late 90's, when the Taliban were every bit as terrible as they are now? "Support the troops" is not an answer, nor is "they are murdering scumbags who don't let little girls go to school". They were murdering scumbags who didn't let little girls go to school back then too.

What was the big difference between now and then? Hmmm... maybe it's that we don't feel compelled to intervene in the case of murdering scumbags who prevent little girls from going to school if they agree to potentially allow a highly profitable US pipeline deal to be brokered in their region? Nah, couldn't be that!


Albertaboy111
said

To quote the Boondock Saints "We must all fear evil men. But there is one thing we should fear more, and that is the indifference of good men." Thats why we are there. We as good people refuse to allow other good people to die and be oppressed needlessly. If we allow it to continue who knows how long it will be before this kind of terror is right on our doorstep? Justice and equality for all. Period.


Lost Cause
said

Kelsey, very well said.

Kevin in Toronto - the government of Afghanistan is about as "elected" as the government of Iraq. These are US friendly puppets that were slid into place under sham elections - the US has been doing this forever. Ever heard of Pinochet?

If you really think this Karzai government is legit and worthy of upholding, well then why does neither our government nor the US listen to what he says?? They almost always brush him off and do what they want regardless of anything he says.

Why do you think that is? Think about that for a second. Something really screwy and dishonest is going on here! Surely even those who support the mission would have a hard time explaining this discrepancy.


Soldier's Father
said

Can I remind those whining for Canada to leave Afghanistan that we belong to NATO...if you don't know what that is and what it means, please pick up a book and read it before whining again...every time you do so, you put our soldiers at risk, including my son...


Roger T
said

As the RECESSION deepens into a DEPRESSION our Gov't is still so stubborn to leave foreign soil which clearly Canadians have no part or business being there.

The Billions of dollars wasted on foreign soil for a lost cause is only causing the suffering of many jobless and soon to be homeless Canadians miserable!

i believe the saying is "Maple Leaf - We take Care", that should be taking care of and spending money on Canadians first!


Grandfather was tortured after U.S. left Vietnam
said

what's with the whole "occupying nation" non-sense. Remember we entered this war due to 911, where the Taliban whole heartedly planned, praised, and showed to the world. The Taliban themselves have no interest in making a peace deal with any western nations, in fact, they've been chanting "death to (fill in the blank)" for years before the war. so if we leave, do you think the Taliban will stop chanting the same slogan and stop planning suicide attacks on other nations and people? no. it will mostly likely lead them have, again, a stable base of operation for training and planning future attacks.

oh and remember the "Taliban" are as much a occupying force as the Canadians. The Taliban are made of foreign fundalmentalists from countries such as Iran, Siriya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and even western nations like Canada, Britain, and the U.S. the difference between us and them is that we're there to prevent further attacks on our nations.

Oh and yes the Afghan maybe an predominantly Muslim nation, but there are still other groups within the country. There were once and likely still are Buddists within the nation. What do you think will happen to them when we leave? They and the Taliban will join hands and sing Kumbaiya?


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