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Third child dead from blast blamed on Canadians
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Tue. Feb. 24 2009 5:08 PM ET
A third Afghan child died Tuesday, following a deadly blast that is being blamed on Canadian troops.
The child has been identified by hospital officials as four-year-old Juma Gul.
The explosion killed two other Afghan children when it went off on Monday.
Juma Gul was injured in the explosion and was taken to Kandahar hospital for treatment of shrapnel wounds, which eventually proved to be fatal.
The exact circumstances of the explosion are unclear, but an Afghan provincial police official said the children were likely scavenging for bits of metal when the blast occurred.
According to some villagers, the blast came from an unexploded shell that was left behind by Canadian soldiers who were conducting target practice in the area.
The children may have picked it up, unaware of the danger.
"Unfortunately it seems they grabbed a large bit of ordinance and that bit of ordinance exploded," The Globe and Mail's Graeme Smith told CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday.
But Jhazi Thor Jan, the father of 13-year-old Sardar Walli, one of those who died, said Tuesday that his son wasn't killed by an abandoned shell but was hit by a stray rocket fired by Canadian soldiers.
"When they were firing our children stayed in the house and when they finished practicing our children came outside. After that they fired again," he said.
"The rocket landed and exploded and killed our children. They are lying."
However, some village elders said they couldn't confirm that version of events and were unsure of the origins of the explosive.
Afghan elders in the tiny, grief-stricken village of Saleha reacted with anger on Monday, blaming the Canadians and chanting "death to Canada."
The families were so upset that they collected the bodies of the two children who died on Monday, put them in a motorcycle sidecar, and drove into downtown Kandahar to show the mutilated remains to reporters.
"That's something they normally wouldn't do," Smith said. "They're busy washing the bodies and trying to get them a proper burial as soon as possible. But these villagers wanted to make a point, they wanted to say 'Look you're hurting us.'"
Artillery testing
The Canadian military has confirmed troops were carrying out artillery testing in the region.
They have strict protocols about performing sweeps after such operations to ensure no explosives are left behind. An inquiry is now being conducted by the National Investigation Service into what may have gone wrong.
Afghan Ambassador to Canada Omar Samad told Canada AM the incident is tragic, but lessons can be learned from it. He suggested military firing ranges should be located far from residential areas.
"Whatever we do, we need to make sure we don't lose the faith and the goodwill of the people," Samad said.
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.








Comments are now closed for this story
MP
said
Enough is enough.
Nancy - No money in balming the Taliban
said
Cameron
said
Where are the cries from Liberal Canadians on this one?
The Taliban, are a scourge, I have been there, I know first hand. They kill teachers and doctors. They burn down schools and kill young girls on their way to school. They go into police stations all slit throats of sleeping policemen. They will strap explosives to themselves and kill 20 Afghans to get one soldier.
This is who they are.
This is who we are fighting.
Please Canada the least we could do is learn about an issue before we have a opinion.
Andrew ex Navy
said
Ali from Mississauga
said
Colin R
said
Taliban propaganda is working.
Daryl
said
Mike G
said
Seems like someones just looking for a reason to blame canada
Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON
said
For Afghan civilians and media reporters to blithely imply that our CME and troops were somehow responsible for the deaths of these kids is patently obscene. Especially when our men and women are over there exposing themselves to real hazards of life and limb for these very same Afghans!
Canadian media and their readers should re-evaluate their naivete! Has anyone thought about the fact that perhaps a number of these villagers are actually Taliban sympathizers disguised as concerned relations who are providing gullible reporters with a juicy head-line?
From the most recent reports from Afghan officials it would appear that responsiblity does indeed rest with the Taliban for not disposing of these UXO's properly!! And what about those irresonsible Afghan parents who are letting their kids play in, what amounts to a minefield?
DANIEL H
said
Richard L. Provencher
said
Wayne Marsh
said
Lisa
said
Sadly kids play with whatever they find - lots of kids were blown up that way after WWII. Unfortunately war kills and more often than not civilians.
This is not a Canadian war - get our soldiers home!
Judy
said
Golly Geee
said
The mission is worthy, btw. Canadian soldiers, of which I was one, fully understand the good we are doing and how many lives we have positively changed.
Canadians do not know because Mr Harper and the PMOs office have censored everything about Afghanistan but reports of death ever since Mr Harper abandoned the troops, and the mission, in an effort to garner votes in Quebec.
Shame really. At least with the liberals, as a soldier, you knew where you stood and what the mission was about.
One hundred and eight dead now, in case anybody forgot. But I would bet my years pension that Canadians have saved thousands of children from premature death already through basic inoculations and humanitarian aide. Let lone our medical services...
God bless the troops and their family's. May He provide this great nation with a government worthy of the right to decide our troops destiny.
leadership that won't announce they are cutting and running three years prior to the resolution date, leadership that won't put our troops at risk for political gain at home.
Pro Patria
geebee
said
suicide bombers on the civilian populace, not to mention the random carnage done by explosive devices planted along roadways.
Ron J. out west
said
Perhaps you'd also like Social Services to leave your own province, the John Howard Society and other such organizations to abandon your city, education funding for your own children to be spent on building more casinos and strip clubs, and that all sex offenders be released into the streets of your neighborhood. After all, I'm sure these things aren't perfect either.
JB
said
Scott
said
If people remember, back in the 90's in the Balkans the different factions also bombed school playgrounds and park killing many many children then would blame the opposite faction or even the UN. Remember, just because the media says it, it may not, just might not be true.
Thanks for listening
sherry Katrina
said
Terry in Ottawa
said
Joce
said
In war there is collateral damage, but we can't just shrug that off and say that if it's for as supposed better cause any one who gets in the way is stupid, wrong or unlucky. NATO and our government is setting the acceptable level of collateral damage way too high. The number of Afghan civilian lives lost in direct & indirect actions of the war since 2001 is estimateed at anywhere between 10,960 - 30,557 people. This doesn't account for injured and impoverished civilians.
Moreover all people have the right to self-determination: not occupation, SELF-DETERMINATION. This is not possible if Canada, the US and the rest of the usual suspects are interfering there. Please, lets stop kidding ourselves: this is not Rwanda. It's time to take our troops out. If Afghan civilians start begging for foreign presence in their midst, instead of condemning the foreign presence to death, then we can consider whether our presence there is beneficial. Please stop this assult on innocencent people.
Lost Cause
said
To everyone out here who keeps using these types of headlines to state the obvious bad things about the Taliban as the sole reason for us being there - the Taliban did ALL of those atrocious things and more back in the late 1990's, but big energy corporations in the USA were courting them, even had them flown into Texas to hang out and negotiate.
Why weren't we at war with the Taliban then and why are we now? The Taliban were no better then!
This is the big question that needs an answer. Why the change of heart? Is it okay to be a brutally oppressive extremist regime as long as you'll play ball business-wise with the West? Seems that way to me!
Jonny H2O
said
Peter in Edmonton
said
Use of the word "scavenging" to describe young people playing in their own backyard is discusting propaganda. "
No your notion that Afghan children play in the back yard is a laughable testimate to the fact that those most critical of the mission and those so certian they understand and detect 'propaganda' are usually the least informed and the least willing to learn.
Afghan children do NOT play in the back yard. The 'back yard' is full of chickens. Not pets mind you but dinner. They do not 'play' in any definition close to Western children. They DO infact spend more time per day than most of us work scrounging, selling, getting water.
....
If you had the foggiest you'd also know that most of th roadside bombs are made from precisely these kind of scrounged undetonated explosives.
Nadine
said
Ralph in Hfx
said
Now, you take a large number of disillusioned people eager to grasp their faith, which is inherently opposed to the belief system of those currently attempting to provide them with "aid". What happens? They will do anything to bring about the "will of God", including purge their lands of their own brethren, who co-operate with Western culture.
For those of you willing to try to understand why this war is happening, take a look at the history of how oil plays a role in all this. In the '50s, there were no roads in Saudi Arabia, now there are thousands of kms of roads linking every village and town. Ask yourself this: When did Iran become an Islamist state and why? I'm willing to bet oil played a big part. So then ask yourself: Why are Islamic Fundamentalists so bent on keeping Western culture and democracy out of their region? Perhaps they want to ensure their destiny of Islam becoming more powerful globally is realized by protecting their turf, and what's underneath their turf - OIL.
Research the fact that global oil reserves are not growing - they're shrinking. And where are the largest viable reserves? You guessed it! The Mid-East! Connect the dots people! These poor kids were likely not killed by Cdn UXOs.
J.C.
said
I believe our soldiers are doing a good job in Afghanistan against tough odds, and a lot of propaganda as well.
Keep up the good work soldiers!!! Do not let this incident turn you from your ultimate goal. You make me very proud to be Canadian!!!!!
Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said
scott
said
Eleanor
said
if they come from taliban parents but even if they are not, it is not beyond the relam of possibility these terrorists are so barbaric they would think nothing of blowing up a few children to make a point about Canadian occupation to try and draw more peaceful muslims to their side.Its like a vicious circle of violence!
I commend our troops for their hard work and sacrifices and I do pray for their safety.I am also saddened for the innocent children who were killed.
Its good to try and make their lives better but I have my doubts you can change a culture that has been around for hundreds of thousands of years to be like ours even tho it is a noble cause!
I will be glad when our Troops take a less combat role and more of NATO steps up to the plate(wishful thinking)
Bless our troops and Bless the innocent children who lost their lives in this unfortunate incident!
Gillian
said
atmobeach....Guelph
said
No wonder the Afghan population's support for foreign troops is waning...we have done nothing to merit their trust.
No food, no clean water, no hope...they are no better off than before or support would be on the increase. Read the headlines...this war is unwinnable according to all military accounts.
Bill S., Ottawa
said
Theresa
said
And you say bring our troops home. Ok, then what? What happens to that country? the people? all the children that our troops have been keeping safe? How naive to think that our soldiers can come home and everything will be ok, that the needless deaths would stop. They would increase like a plague.
Pull your heads out of the sand an take a good look at your life compared to theirs. It should humble us all into shutting up about the pointless things we whine about and thank God that we get to wake up in this wondrous country that holds futures for all of us and generations to come.
It's really easy to sit in front of your computer with your cup of coffee passing judgment. We don't have a clue what it is like.
kc in alberta
said
We should locate our practice firing far enough from civilian areas that such small children could not simply walk there.
Then we can be sure that tragic deaths like these will not be our fault.
J
said
Makes me sick how the media won't wait for the full story to unfold and spout theory with no information given. I guess this horrible story is "juicy" and blaming our men and women in uniform for something that might not even be their fault will sell more papers and increase the charging rate for advertising space.
Peter 1951
said
mario luigi, deep sticks bc
said
kids over there dont have playgrounds and parks to jump around in, the country is a warzone. some of us here cant see past whats on the tube. our kids are busy on thier nintendos, and we are busy with crap like reality tv.
the bad guys over there are in constant need of this type of munition. your own weapon used against you has a very high mental damage ratio, besides the physical damage. wouldnt doubt it if a few of these kids were actually promised food or a few bucks to look for this type of munition, this way no bad guy gets hurt and the foriegners can be blamed.
are we still looking for bad guys over there? if we leave, how will the pipeline flow through? why are the poppies still being grown for heroin? can peace ever be achieved between all those tribes that hate each other so bad, they are willing to side with whomever provides them with the best weapons and tech and cash, to wipe out thier enemies.
one kid, wherever, is too much. that one kid is your kid, my kid.
Kevin in Toronto
said
When an elected government has asked you to stay, you're not an 'occupying force' as some people here have put it.
Afghanistan is definitely better off since we've been there. Not all of it can be attributed to Canadians being there but take a look:
- over 5,000 km of roads have been built or refurbished nationwide
- 530 councils and over 760 completed projects in Kandahar province (as of June 2008)
- Over 1500 wells, 180 km of irrigation canals, 600 culverts in Kandahar (2003 to Mar 2008)
- National Solidarity Program: over 21,000 Community Development Councils elected nationwide; over 21,000 projects completed (as of June 2008)
- per capita income has doubled between 2002 and 2007
- microfinance program: over 440,000 savings & small loans services clients in 23 provinces, including Kandahar (as of May 2008)
- over 80% of Afghans now have access to basic medical care (vs. 9% in 2004)
- infant mortality down 22% since 2001: 40,000 more babies survive every year; under-5 child mortality down 26%
And much more. This mission is about helping people less fortunate than ourselves. Unfortunately, security is necessary. We're helping give Afghanistan the tools to be self-sustaining.
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
We should be out of Afghanistan. We should be in Afghanistan. The Taliban are evil. We once embraced the Taliban. It's about freedom and democracy. It's about oil and big business. Islamic fundamentalism is a global disease. Islamic extremists are merely religious citizens tired of being politically manipulated by the West.
Blah, blah, blah.
You either believe that freedom and democracy is an underlying "right" of all those born upon this earth or you don't. You either believe in helping your fellow brothers and sisters on this big blue marble or you don't. You either believe in righteous efforts and righteous sacrifices or you don't.
Everything in between is hot air and worthless discussion. (The "grey" areas of any issue are most often occupied by hypocrites lacking any meaningful or educated conviction.)
Bombs in the ground. Bloodshed in the streets. Acid in the face. Torture. Imprisonment. Beheading. Destroyed schools. Maimed children. Zero gender equality. Hatred.
Either support just causes of improving the lives of your fellow human beings, or, resign yourself to a selfish world where "haves" ignore "have-nots" and innocent, freedom-wanting people suffer at the hands of immoral oppressors.
Decide which person YOU are, and move on towards exercising consistency in your thoughts, beliefs, and actions.
Zhimmy
said
I suppose that 2 kids wasn't enough to warrant enough attention. So today's its now 3. This is a Vietnames tactic to start to get us to believe our soliders are "Baby Killers!" I don't believe them for a second!
Tono
said
Alberta Believer
said
Yes we treat some of their sick children and our military engineers build wells, and we assist in allowing girls to go to school but do you honestly think that these people (again orthodox Muslims) are going to adopt Canadian or even western values? Do you think the progress will last?
I mean its one thing for a mother of a sick child to thank the nurse who healed their chidl, its another thing for that same mother to accept that child's say future embrace of Christianity or homosexuality in a place like Afghanistan.
I'm all for being their to curtail the damage that the Taliban could do to us or our allies but seriously, transform a society in which the residents as a matter of faith based principle see us and our values as satanic? No they are not all Taliban adherants but orthodox Muslims are diametrically opposed to our way of life and on religious grounds.
Jim in Ottawa
said
Let us allow the investigation to continue before casting judgment on the entire mission.
Troy
said
" Mohd went in front of the Kandahar Provincial Council and the governor's office, shouting in protest against NATO and the Afghan government.
"We want Mullah Omar, we want a Taliban government," he shouted."
Joebuda
said
Kevin in T.O.
said
Donny in Edmonton
said
And also consider the theory that maybe the shell that was left behind wasn't from Canadians. Don't forget that we aren't the only ones who are there or have been there in the past.
And shame on anyone at home who dares badmouth our brave soldiers. If you're not going to stand up for our troops, then do us all a favour and stand in front of them.
John in Calgary
said
I'm sorry to hear for your loss. I think I can speak for every Canadian when I say it is not our intention to kill civilians. The unfortunate thing is that it happens.
I don't believe this war should stop and if an extension is needed in 2011 then I would support it. I wish all of you would help our troops in identifying the Taliban, it would bring this war to a speedy conclusion.
I wish you could look outside the box for a minute and realize that a four year old should not be trying to salvage metal to gain an extra couple dollars. They should be playing in safe parks with swings and slides, they should be going to pre-school. They should be getting ready for kindergarten.
I want nothing more than this war to end so that we can work with you and help you build your country. To give you the freedom and recources to have parks, schools, business, government for the people, and an economy that will make your entire people better off.
Right now you are ranked as one of the poorest country's in the world, all we're trying to do is help, so please stop blaming us and help us end the war, after all it is your people who are helping both sides of this battle.
megan -military wife
said
has anyone stopped to think about what the allegations are doing to our troops that are serving right now. they are there doing a mission that many of them fully belive and support lets not forget this is a voluntary army. and now they are being accused of killing children on purpose.
i lost faith in the media a very LONG time ago. majority of the stories they report are always negative and makes me wonder just who they are supporting. it would be nice if they started to display some of the good things that has been done in that country.
To The Retired Soldier in Kingston, ON
said
Your view, the views of most of my peers, and my own, are very much alike.
Well said.
Concerned Canadian
said
You are correct in blaming oil for what is going on in this region. The U.S. was negotiating a deal to bring a pipeline across Afghanistan until the Taliban turned the deal down. After the invasion of Afghanistan, however, the deal is going ahead.
Canada's mission is, in part, to keep the Taliban at bay so U.S. energy companies can make money. We are no doubt helping these people, but let's not kid ourselves about the primary motivation for being there.
You ask why Iran is a fundamentalist state - it always has been culturally, but the U.S. installed the Shah there through the CIA in the '60's in order to put missiles on their territory aimed at Russia. Then the people got tired of the tyrannical rule of the Shah, and rebelled, turning back to their fundamentalist roots. U.S. foreign policy has made Iran what it is today.
Iran also has large oil reserves, and the U.S. needs those reserves, as well as those in Iraq, because of Reagan's dismantling of Carter's energy policies in the 70's. Had he not done so, the U.S. would not be dependent on foreign oil, and U.S. foreign policy would not have created the basis for terrorism in the region.
But your conclusion does not follow from your discussion - the fact that this is fundamentally about oil has nothing to do with the question of whether these children died from a Canadian mistake.
Nor does the fact that the Taliban kill children in any way justify Canada's role in this incident, if in fact we are guilty. This is the logical fallacy known as "pointing to another evil." We cannot justify our own moral failings by pointing to the evil done by others.
Wayne in Saskatchewan
said
I wonder if you would feel the same if your children died in a war.
FACT IS...Canada should have no part in a war in Afghanistan.
Last time I checked, nobody forced anyone to join the army.
Too many good people are dying in vain.
Ryder
said
Mr Chillz
said
There is no "mission" there,....bring our kids home now and send our politicians instead,...
Ben
said
Willie Everlearn
said
The fact that their story is changing with the death of the third child tells me it wouldn't stand up to a whole lot of scrutiny, which the media is apparently not about to get into.
Kelsey
said
I don't agree with you, and many others who have commented on this story.
First off, do you think that the parents of the children wanted them (the soldiers) to practice firing so close to their village? Would YOU ever do practice firing in the fields close to HWY 15 near high schools?... or, as you claim, those parents who let their children play in a *minefield, do you think they asked for those mines there??
It is not only possible, but likely that this was a horrible accident, that canada and ultimetly Harper is to blame. I'm not saying it's acceptable, just that we can't disregard something that happened as 'Lying Taliban Supporters'
Has the US ever done the same (accidently killing innocent civis)? It happens a lot, and I bet you don't think THAT'S all lies. It seems this war is giving Canada a bad name overseas, ect, and once again, who is to blame? Harper, for following Bush and holding his you know what all the way.
I think that if a country needs to be invaded for crimes against humanity, there should be a world army run by the UN that soldiers from any country can join, and fight for the good of that country, instead of, for example, the US basically bringing in Canada to this hugely unpopular war, that any educated open-minded person can see was just Bush being the ignorant leader he was and created it (the war) if You expect ME to support our troops, how about they fight for something worthwhile, NOT OIL. I support freedom, justice, and the right to choose. I choose not to support a war that was invented by the worst leader in the last ....well ...EVER.
Marko Tesla
said
The fact that artillery practice occurs so near civilians and in areas that people can walk about in is mind boggling;
were there no foothills that were out of reach of children? is Afghanistan such a small place that artillery target practice needs to occur in populated areas?
these are questions that we need to ask the officers responsible for this gross loss of life.
Joseph
said
Afghan vet
said
SANDIE_b
said
Lost Cause
said
Blah, blah, blah."
...and Prof Pye Chartt then proceeded to launch into a self-congratulatory tirade about why we should be in Afghanistan.
Thank you Mr. Pye Chartt for adding another one of the "blah" points you identified up there to the debate that you claim to be so sick and tired of.
Now can someone please answer the question as to why we and the USA weren't at war with the Taliban in the late 90's, when the Taliban were every bit as terrible as they are now? "Support the troops" is not an answer, nor is "they are murdering scumbags who don't let little girls go to school". They were murdering scumbags who didn't let little girls go to school back then too.
What was the big difference between now and then? Hmmm... maybe it's that we don't feel compelled to intervene in the case of murdering scumbags who prevent little girls from going to school if they agree to potentially allow a highly profitable US pipeline deal to be brokered in their region? Nah, couldn't be that!
Albertaboy111
said
Lost Cause
said
Kevin in Toronto - the government of Afghanistan is about as "elected" as the government of Iraq. These are US friendly puppets that were slid into place under sham elections - the US has been doing this forever. Ever heard of Pinochet?
If you really think this Karzai government is legit and worthy of upholding, well then why does neither our government nor the US listen to what he says?? They almost always brush him off and do what they want regardless of anything he says.
Why do you think that is? Think about that for a second. Something really screwy and dishonest is going on here! Surely even those who support the mission would have a hard time explaining this discrepancy.
Soldier's Father
said
Roger T
said
The Billions of dollars wasted on foreign soil for a lost cause is only causing the suffering of many jobless and soon to be homeless Canadians miserable!
i believe the saying is "Maple Leaf - We take Care", that should be taking care of and spending money on Canadians first!
Grandfather was tortured after U.S. left Vietnam
said
oh and remember the "Taliban" are as much a occupying force as the Canadians. The Taliban are made of foreign fundalmentalists from countries such as Iran, Siriya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and even western nations like Canada, Britain, and the U.S. the difference between us and them is that we're there to prevent further attacks on our nations.
Oh and yes the Afghan maybe an predominantly Muslim nation, but there are still other groups within the country. There were once and likely still are Buddists within the nation. What do you think will happen to them when we leave? They and the Taliban will join hands and sing Kumbaiya?