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Parliament votes down Bloc budget amendments

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CTV.ca News

Date: Thu. Jan. 29 2009 7:34 PM ET

The Conservative budget cleared its first hurdle Thursday evening as Parliament rejected a Bloc Quebecois amendment to extend EI eligibility and lend more support to the forestry and manufacturing sectors.

The Bloc amendment also aimed to derail a pan-Canadian securities commission and accused the Tories of giving tax cuts to the wealthy.

But only the Bloc and the NDP voted in favour of the changes, which would have eliminated contentious tax cuts for middle-class Canadians.

The Bloc amendment also included a section to "maintain the right of women to settle pay equity issues in court," which became a hot-button issue during the Conservatives' fiscal fall update as the opposition accused the Tories of attacking women's rights.

The Bloc amendment vote comes four days before the House votes on Liberal additions to the budget.

Meanwhile, Grit Leader Michael Ignatieff announced Wednesday that his party would support the Tory budget -- for a price.

Grits to support budget

The hitch, Ignatieff said, was that the Conservatives would be required to provide three updates over the next year on the economy and the implementation of the budget.

The amendment, requiring reports in March, June and December, will go to a vote on Monday and is expected to pass.

Meanwhile, the New Democrats have produced a series of scathing radio ads that blast Ignatieff for propping up the Conservatives.

The NDP and Liberals had earlier formed a coalition, with the support of the Bloc Quebecois, to bring down the government -- a plan Ignatieff has since backed away from.

The ads claim Ignatieff has failed his first major test as a leader, proving NDP Leader Jack Layton is the only one willing to take a stand against Harper.

"The simple message they want to get out is if you don't like Stephen Harper look to the NDP. The Liberals aren't the party you should be looking to, they're clones of the Tories so vote NDP," said CTV's Roger Smith.

Liberal gains in Quebec

Earlier Thursday, a new poll showed the Liberals establishing a strong lead over the Conservatives in Quebec, and even challenging the Bloc Quebecois in the all important province.

The CROP poll published in La Press shows the Liberals with 31 per cent support in the province, creeping up on the separatists' 34 per cent and leaving the Conservatives behind with just 16 per cent support.

"This is terrible news for the Conservatives," said CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife. "As Brian Mulroney used to say, you cannot win a majority government in this country without Quebec."

On the other hand, the numbers are great news for Ignatieff.

He's looking strong just one day after putting his amendment on the Conservatives' federal budget, and seems to be gaining popularity in Quebec, where he has a good relationship with Liberal Premier Jean Charest.

He suggested the shift in strength is a result of Harper's misjudgement during the last election, and Ignatieff's effective maneuvering in the province.

"This bodes very well for the Liberal party in Quebec," Fife said.

However, he pointed out that if the Liberals continue to pose a serious threat to the Bloc, it's possible that leader Gilles Duceppe will shift his support to the government.

Budget amendment

Earlier Thursday, Industry Minister Tony Clement said the Liberals' budget demands are reasonable.

"We had every intention of updating both Parliament and the Canadian people on our progress with respect to this budget," Clement said Thursday.

Ignatieff had said the budget was "flawed" because, among other things, it fails to extend EI eligibility, attaches strings to infrastructure dollars that may delay projects and jobs, and lacks a credible plan to get out of the deficit situation.

However, he said the budget includes important concessions such as affordable housing, skills development and measures to make credit available to businesses.

It also includes measures to provide a tax rebate to Canadians who undertake renovation projects.

Clement said that even by the time the government is required to deliver its first report in March -- in less than two months -- there will be progress to report.

Clement acknowledged, however, that some measures such as infrastructure spending, will take longer to implement and may not be in place by the first scheduled update.

"Rome wasn't built in a day nor will all of Canada's infrastructure be built in a day and I think Canadians will be realistic."

Meanwhile, Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams launched a public relations campaign to stall budget changes that will alter equalization payments under the Atlantic Accord.

Williams has said that his province stands to lose $1.5 billion over three-years, and he petitioned Ignatieff to stand up against Harper over the changes.

"(Ignatieff) acknowledged there was a very serious problem," said Williams Thursday, adding that he has support of premiers from other Atlantic provinces.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Gary Thunder
said

I think Mr Ignatieff made an unfortunate decision. He failed to put aside partisan politics for the good of the country. He also missed a golden opportunity. The NCC no longer backs Stephen Harper after this budget, he will have a tough time without their support. They are calling for Conservative supporters to stop funding the party until they elect a new leader.
We are back to a dysfunctional Parliament for quite a long time, that should see the Conservatives rack up historical deficits, worse than Mulroney could ever do.
There is a group of Conservatives that are talking about splitting from Harpers dysfunction and forming their own Party. More power to them.


Biggest looser is Layton
said

They are finally acting like reasonable elected members.

I hope this continue, it is certainly in our best interest and Canada whould be the winner in all this.

See what collaboration can accomplish instead of that constant backstabbing.

At the end the biggest looser is Layton, he never was able to see the big picture. His own interest were more important to him than his electeors and his country!


Gary Thunder
said

With 11 Senators set to retire this year, that should give Harper plenty of opportunity to stack the Senate with Conservative appointments.
Maybe his new plan is to prorogue the House of Commons permanently and just sit in his 'Kingdom' of appointed Senators.


Jim in Edmonton
said

The Canadian people need leadership and that's what they are getting. The - "i'm listening to Canadians and they are not" stupid games must stop. Jack Layton cannot deal with the fact that he'll never be in power although he can run to be prime minister all he wants. I actually have more respect for the PQ at least you know where they are coming from. Get on with advancing our interests and work together. Ps. Hey Danny Williams, you reap what you sow!


Jackie Barrett
said

Looks like Michael Ignatieff is going to snub Newfoundlanders and Labradorians along with Stephen Harper since Ignatieff has not added another amendment to the budget, revert the equalization/transfer payment clawback levels for offshore oil royalties to 50%, not 100% as proposed which would cripple the Newfoundland and Labrador economy.

What I heard from Danny Williams' speech, if the budget is passed, Newfoundlanders could lose $1.5 billion over three years due to the new equalization and non renewable resource clawback mechanism. This would result in economic suicide for the hard working people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Therefore, if Michael Ignatieff has any heart and decency whatsoever for all Canadians, he should do the right thing and add the 50% non renewable resource royalty clawback option so Newfoundlanders will not severely suffer from Harper's heartless policies against us.

That way, Ignatieff can sleep a little easier at night knowing that all Canadians are treated fairly and no province is forced into an economic suicide like Harper and Flaherty plan to vent on the Newfoundlanders.


George in Fredericton
said

Well isn't this just a wonderful situation.Now very little will actually be accomplished in parliment because the opposition parties will always be creating roadblocks to try to find a reason to bring the government down. Mr Ignatief will claim he created any good that comes from the budget he refused to help draft.
He will blame the conservatives for all the negative fallout from the world economic situation and at the first opportunity he gets ; after he has built his party back to some sort of strength, he will bring the house down.

I find it interesting though, that he says on the air ," This document has no merrit and does not help the Canadian people who need it most" YET he supports it. What's up with that Iggy.

Under these circumstances NO government could function.

Please Mr. Ignatief, hurry up and bring this house to an end , so we the people can get rid of you.

We need a government with a solid footing to get a real stimulus going in this country.


tracy
said

What a mess the CoNservatives have created for this country. Of course they're going to comply with anything Iggy requests. And when they fail to stick to the agenda, which they will. The Liberals will bring pride and wealth back to Canada. Can't wait. This last few years have been the biggest political nightmare ever, worse than Mulroney ever was.


Gary Thunder
said

The Conservatives home renovation program is simply a move to stop the 'cash' underground movement.
The contractors that were working for cash will now require receipts and subsequently raise their prices. A tax grab, by any other name. And of course, expect the prices to go up at your local lumber yards.


BooBear in Cumberland
said

NDP is crashing and burning. Layton knows he screwed up big time with this "coalition". Although I feel strongly that the "coalition" will be back in another form later on, what we needed at this time was compromise and efficient governing. As for Ducepp, well who the hell cares, does he REALLY matter?


S. Miller
said

How, or what, would the government expect to be able to report on with regards to the home renovation plan at the end of March? As I understand it, one won't be able to tell how many people have taken advantage of the credit until the 2009 tax return deadline in April 2010. Likewise, any boost in work for contractors or sales at Rona wouldn't be known until at least April or May.


proud conservative
said

Oh you are all a bunch of whiners. Stephen Harper is the best Prime Minister we have ever had. I would like to know where Gary is getting his information from and Tracy , you are kidding right. I remember the Trudeau years and they were not good.CHRETIEN was so embarrassing. The way they treated Americans made me cringe with shame .They robbed us blind and made it look like they had a surplus. Where is the ei money? Where is the sponsership money? Where is the government day care they promised for what five ,six years/What a crock. Liberals promise everything and give nothing or download it all to the provinces to make the federal government look good.


Michelle
said

Excellent, right back to where we were before the election, with a minority conservative government carefully making decisions that the liberals can't but support and the wheels of government turning.
NOW GET THE BUSES MOVING IN OTTAWA!!!!


DRH
said

Well I wonder how the people of NL/L will vote in the next election? Thanks to ABC Williams, NL did not elect even one Conservative MP thus in turn had no say in the budget allocations. Just a little advice for thoose on the coast, vote with your own mind and for a parties agenda instead of being led around by an absolute idiot. Just remember, what goes around, comes around.
Enjoy your summer...........in the EI line.


Gid'day
said

To Garry Thunder
You are continuing to make the same media mistruths about PM
mulroony. When he came to power he had a budget deficit of $40 billion!! This was from the "great" Pierre Trudeau. In todays terms, this was a $60-70 billion.

I am no lover of those days, but lets keep the facts straight.


Spenc
said

With no coalition, or the possibility of such anytime soon, the Libs can demand all they want, the conservatives only have to deliver as they see fit because they have the numbers in the House. There is no way the NDP and Blockheads are going to aid and abet another coalition and there is no way Iggy will participate in such, so the Libs are now a toothless tiger! I find it interesting how reluctant the press is to admit to this situation. Three years from now we will have this same government and no new election. They will be kept in power by the hapless Libs!


Ed Ontario
said

So let's get this straight. Everything bad about the Canada's economic situation is a fault of the Conservatives; everything good in the budget is because of the Liberal's actions. I am sick of Mr. Ignatieff's academic style arrogance when he constantly talks down to the Prime Minister. At the same time does anybody in Canada know where's he stands on anything?


Romes
said

To: Gary Thunder, When Harper fills the 11 senate seats, the senate will still be majority liberal. This is no kingdom.


Poor Farmer
said

First of all, I just hope that all MP's regardless of what party, realize the issue's that are at hand here and our deteriorating economy.

Canadians, rich, middle class and poor alike want nothing more then to have partisan politics put to the side and for all sides of the house to work together, to get us through these rather tough economic times.

So far I like what I see in the budget, but Mr. Ignatieff is right about asking for an amendment in the current budget.

One thing that Harper or Flaherty has addressed is the EI benefit situation.

People who are now among the ranks of the unemployed are still waiting two weeks for a cheque and that's only if they qualify.

Something needs to be done about this ASAP for those Canadians from coast to coast to coast, who are losing their jobs and are finding that because of their geographic location, they're not qualified.

One individual waited a month, without a single penny, just to find out they don't qualify for EI.

Let's get on with the business of parliament and make these wrongs right and do whatever it takes to turn this economic ship in the right direction and stop bickering about your ridiculous ideaology.

I'm sure there are enough sensible people on that hill who can work together and let the best idea's surface.


Don Rodgirs
said

If Mr. Harper could wave a magic wand and cure all the ills of Canada the opposition would claim he was a heritic. The present government is doing about all it can do in this economy and it is the oppostion who are standing in the way for political reasons and not for what they think is best for the country. Grow up Canada you can't have everything for nothing.


MDHinDC
said

To those who think that Harper is in control here - think again. He is obviously well aware of the fact that the media are far more interested in Ignatieff's opinion of the budget than they are in what's in the budget. Harper has merely adapted, like any politician must, to the stiuation at hand, and played the hand he is dealt with the masterful strokes of an artist. He really does not mind that the microphones are in someone else's face, there is time enough to make a public statement that will turn the nations radar around. It is unfortunate that he had to run up such a high deficit, but anyone who has read the history books knows that the fall of 29 was made worse by protectionism in the US, and a hands-off approach to the economy by the G7. The men in power were more afraid of being perceived as communists than they were of almost anything else. The strong language amongst the commentators against Mr. Layton does not appear to be out of fear of socialism as much as it is a reflection of their percetion of his policies. He obviously has absolutley no grasp of how the real world functions, in business or in politics.


Anthony
said

Mr.Layton now has two men he can not trust. I am glad though that he trusts an co-operates with the one who basically does not care for Canada to start with. What a pair indeed.
I will dare to make a prediction.. Neither one of them will ever be a Prime Minister.


Rob, Sackville, NB
said

Initially, during that Press Conference, Ignatieff said there were TWO conditional amendments. The accountability amendment AND an amendment for access to EI.

What happened to that second amendment Iggy??


brenda
said

This latest nonsense, the coalition government, etc, all started because of the $1.78 per vote take away. It can still be maintained. Just don't vote Liberal or NDP..they'll still lose their money for votes, and we'll gain a stable, accountable, majority government..win win situation.


Helen L.M. Webster
said

I read the budget spending and I saw nothing in it to help students in our post secondary schools across Canada. Removing the interest from Canada Student Loans will free up future income for graduating students and actually help the economy.
Helen Webster
St. John's, NL


Gary Thunder
said

Rob, Sackville, NB
Initially, during that Press Conference, Ignatieff said there were TWO conditional amendments. The accountability amendment AND an amendment for access to EI.

What happened to that second amendment Iggy??
=============================
He needs the support of the Bloc and NDP. It is no longer there to make ammendments. The accountability issue is a joke and really makes the Liberals look like fools. Something tells me the "closet Conservative" John Manley wrote the speech.



Richard L. Provencher
said

Re Gary Thunder commenting re senators appointed by Conservatives. Interesting that for years 58 Liberal Senators to 20 Conservatives does not compute in his calculations. Now it's 59 to 38. Mr. Harper wanted to change the time period from 40 years to 8 or 12; reasonable to me. But guess who turned it down; yes, the Liberal Senators.


Michael Scanlon-Newmarket
said

Smart politics in action
For the longest time we have needed a good balance in our federal government. The best of both worlds seems to be forming now. The Conservatives still have the ultimate control of things as long as they play nice with th Liberals and hand them a bone once and a while with their regular updates. Jack Layton and his puffed up chest can sit down and play the role he always has had in his career, a backbencher for life. No chance of being a power broker Jack, just sit back and collect your pay. The Bloc continues to blah, blah about Quebec and now has less power and influence than ever.
So as long as the Conservatives are in check from the Librals, I think we have a great opportunity to hhave a government that will do things the country needs to have done. FINALLY!


Barry Letang
said

Legitimate fiscal, social and judicial conservatives are not complacent with this return to a enormous, superfluous $85 plus billion deficit which will undeniably not be short term. Anyone who deems that this deficit will only last for five years has no sense of history. History confirms how quickly “temporary” spending programs are converted into permanent financial structures, paid for by annual tax increases.

Rather than accepting Obama’s impractical, asinine and socialistic assertion that “only the government can break the vicious cycles crippling the economy”, fiscal conservatives understand that a country can not spend its way out of a recession; and therefore, would do nothing more than facilitate the free market healing process. Fiscal conservatives recognize that if additional spending was the solution we, and especially the United States, wouldn’t be in this recession since comrades Bush and Harper’s governments spent much more than any preceding governments in history.

Conservatives appreciate that deficit spending that the government of the day is stealing money from our grandchildren and their grandchildren who will be inflicted with massive taxes to pay for today’s superfluous, colossal spending.

Genuine conservatives understand that assets sales plus cutting inefficient, profligate and peripheral billions from the $230 billion Federal budget and applying those resuscitate tax dollars to retroactively lower all levels of personal income taxes for 2008 and beyond, cutting payroll taxes, corporate taxes and capital gain taxes which would put dollars into the hands of people who would immediately spend it would accelerate the market place therapeutic process.



shelley
said

Everyone should think hard and clear before posting comments that are in their own political or personal best interests. I've so far seen somewhat of a positive change in the Harper government, being more media friendly. Mr. Ignatieff, is standing for the best interests of the country by putting accountability first. We haven't seen much of it from all political leaders in the past. Harper should be on a short leash. Now he is and hopefully govern the way he was elected to. The budget won't suit everyone, it helps my family in no way at all, except burden us with more debt. However, something had to be done to shut everyone up. It makes me sick to think of how long it will take us to pay this back. If this government would have been more prudent with our money before, it wouldn't be costing us so much now. The opposition should have stepped in a long time ago, that's my dissappointment, now lets get on with it.


Gary
said

Don't be fooled by Mr. Ignorantof's willingness to support the budget..He knows which way the political will of the Canadian majority is thinking right now..He'd be dead meat walking if he voted the budget down at this stage..and the games continue


Don't take the West for Granted
said

Very disapoinited that Harper did not do anything to help cattle producers who were hit by trade impairments by the US from a program called COOL or Country of Origin Labelling.
It is starting to get real serious as money is lost every time we sell our animals. This trade issue is not in our hands and is hammering us.

The Conservatives are taking this Western Vote for granted. Big mistake.

A word of Caution to the Conservatives, as there are rumblings of town hall meetings to start a new right wing party again.The West no longer feels represented, as we are being overlooked so the big vote provinces come their way.



Diane
said

Well, the budget has passed and the Headmaster will monitor the kids to make sure they keep their promises to be good.

I can't believe that there are people on this website who think it is O.K for renovators to accept cash payment and evade paying taxes on income earned. Aside from being illegal it is immoral as well. Why should I pay taxes while others cheat? These guys doing this are also screwing themselves out of CPP in the long run. It shows you where these bloggers are coming from..the government is trying to flush out cheaters because renovations will have to be declared. I think its Great...make these cheaters pay their fair share of taxes finally. Whoever thought of this was brilliant!


armin
said

the beautiful thing about canadians is that their memories are so short. PET and the liberal party damn near bankrupted this country with their spend, spend and spend some more attitudes. when their plan went south which was the ONLY government to impose wage freezes on the worker? that's right folks the liberals.
next how about that financial wizard paul martin? yes he managed to bring the federal budget under control, be offloading billions of dollars onto the provinces. surely we haven't forgotten the term "offloading" yet. wasn't he a liberal?
wasn't alan rock a liberal and didn't he flush damn near 2 billion into the tiolet with his pet project "the useless gun registry"?
i don't particularly favor one party over the other, as they appear to all be incompetent, however when i hear some morons bemoaning for the return of the liberals as a cure to all our probelms i want to hurl. as for our newfoundland cousins they should have displayed some backbone and told that idiot danny williams to pound sand. here's an interesting thought for NF/L. if the liberals are so great why don't you all remember that when it's provincial election time? toss that idiot out and maybe have a seat at a caucus table.


Inkmont
said

The current positions in Parliament look to me very much like the power relationship that existed last fall before the last election. What's difference? The conservatives are a minority, the liberals support them while nay-saying and the NDP and Bloc set themselves up as permanent obstacles regardless of content, thereby collecting their salaries with no work. Keeping fingers crossed that the stimulation measures can advance in this climate.


bunny
said

I think this is how it should work. The markets are more stable, I don't think they liked the colaliton anymore than I did. We need a little stabilty.Layton can say what he wants, you cannot demand millions to prop up Harper, when our economy is like it is.I feel he is very out of touch, and perhaps it's time, layton, a career politican moved on!


Chris Maxemuck
said

As canadians we should all be very thankful for the quality of life that we enjoy. Sometimes we take our rights and freedoms for granted. We as canadians should take some responsibility for this mess. We forget about the smaller family businesses, farms and other operations, while we all flock to stand in line at Walmart to purchase chinese made goods we may not even need. As a small business owner in Lorette, Manitoba, I see many difficult days ahead. Good Luck to to Mr. Harper, and may cooler heads and wise decisions guide us.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

One truly sad and rather pathetic aspect of this shot-gun budget is that many Canadians across the land (as further witnessed in many of CTV's posts) are now saddled with the misguided notion that it represents a giant social welfare program that should be directly benefiting every vocational segment and special interest in the country.

"Hey! Where's OUR money?! Where's MY money?!"

Sorry, folks. The federal budget stands as an economic stimulus measure; not a charitable handout.


Rob, Sackville, NB
said

Gary Thunder wrote:

"He needs the support of the Bloc and NDP. It is no longer there to make ammendments. The accountability issue is a joke and really makes the Liberals look like fools. Something tells me the "closet Conservative" John Manley wrote the speech."

------------------------------

I would bet you're right about Manley. I noticed he started campaigning for Harper's job late last year with that ridiculous G&M piece. I've just written Ignatieff and LeBlanc (my MP) as well as Yvon Godin (EI critic) and Libby Davies (NDP House Leader). The budget NEEDS that amendment. I hope someone introduces it.


J. Fletcher
said

If I were a Conservative, I would be rubbing my hands with glee. There's no doubt whatsoever that they were delightfully surprised by Ignatieff's decision to keep propping up Harper. I hope Bob Rae and Dominic Leblanc haven't taken their coats off yet because Mr. Ignatieff just shredded any power he may have gained in the past few weeks while tossing Canadians to the dogs. I guess you just can't get his full attention while he's busy writing books. What a dismal failure! Isn't there anyone out there who can lead this country in the right direction?


Jim in Ontario
said

In December, Ignatieff signed the coalition document with the NDP (Dion yes, but also Ignatieff). Shortly after signing on with the coalition, Dion suddenly "resigned" as Liberal leader, with Ignatieff appointed as the replacement. The excuse used for foregoing a DEMOCRATIC leadership selection process, was that the Liberals needed to have a leader in place quickly for the the probablity of being appointed Prime Minister should the government fall. Yesterday's endorsement of the budget, removes the possibility of the government falling quickly. The coalition is dead, and any Liberal leader will now need to win an election prior to becoming PM.

My questions are: when is the Liberal party going to have a democratic and open leadership contest for Mr Ignatieff given that the conditions for his APPOINTMENT by the party elite, no longer apply? Why did Ignatieff sign the coalition document in December? Was that signature in good faith, or was it simply a vehicle to circumvent democratic due process?


I'm watching you Iggy
said

I know Mr. Harper is the best prime minister this country has ever had, certainly for many decades. Iggy has no choice,but to saddleup to Harper.If it makes him feel better to pretend he is in control by talking down to Harper, he can continue to do that, but we all know he is very useless with the present situation in the house of commons.


Concerned Canadian
said

Mr. Layton may be upset by this new "coalition," but Mr. Ignatieff was correct in his decision. The only other options were for the NDP/Liberal coalition to take control, or for there to be another election.
But we don't need an election- our current MP's can do the job. And had the NDP/Liberal coalition taken over, they would have had to produce another budget, taking more time and staling the recovery. No matter who is in power, we're going to have to go into deficit to get out of this mess. And with Ignatieff holding the government to account, at least we'll be able to keep an eye on Mr. Harper's Conservatives, who have broken promises and failed to deliver before.


Gary Thunder
said

Diane
Well, the budget has passed and the Headmaster will monitor the kids to make sure they keep their promises to be good.

I can't believe that there are people on this website who think it is O.K for renovators to accept cash payment and evade paying taxes on income earned. Aside from being illegal it is immoral as well. Why should I pay taxes while others cheat? These guys doing this are also screwing themselves out of CPP in the long run. It shows you where these bloggers are coming from..the government is trying to flush out cheaters because renovations will have to be declared. I think its Great...make these cheaters pay their fair share of taxes finally. Whoever thought of this was brilliant!

==================================
Can you spell I-N-F-L-A-T-I-O-N ???
Yeah, that is all we need on top of a recession. Now you know why Conservative policies don't work. They cannot see past their zelousness to the effects of what they propose!


James
said

What kind of updates will they be?
Thousands more jobs lost here and there. These industries closing their doors. These provincial governments posting unheard of deficits. Canadian banks restricting lending because of record foreclosures and bankruptcies. The recovery from the "depression" will take much longer than expected.

The truth of the matter is that this financial crisis is gaining strength with no bottom in sight. Obama has stated that "we don't have a moment to lose." I think that Harper and his government is aware of this and that this week's budget is a bandaid on a shotgun wound. I think I am safe in saying that in 6 months time, July/Aug, the Canadian public and the world will have a clear picture of the incredible mess we're in. Then the governments of the world will finally come to the conclusion that the only way to recover from this is to forgive all debt. They'll have no choice because so many jobs will have been lost, debt will be in the hundreds of trillions of dollars world wide and the markets and banks will be gripped by paralysis as countries go bankrupt. Look at Iceland and Ireland and most eastern European countries and the Third World for examples.

Some think my idea of forgiving all debt is ludicrous. I simply say, learn from history. How did the Nazi grow? They grew because of the depression and people's willingness to believe that trying to enslave and murder others would bring them out of their despair.

I do not believe that another world war is the answer to this crisis. I would much rather see the greatest act of human forgiveness and compassion as the means to emerge from this "man" made disaster. It must be done!! FORGIVE ALL DEBT!!


Toronto Nick
said

My goal for our nation would be that people could put aside the name of their party for once and work together towards something bigger than themselves. We are all Canadians, and believe in many of the same things. Most of the responses that are being written are just knee jerk responses. I will be honest, myself, I tend to vote liberal, however, I find that both sides, left and right, are guilty of these comments. They are useless to read. If you do not have something to add to the conversation, do not comment. I want to read something that makes me think, not something that makes me want to fight. Think on that before you comment again. As to the actual discussion at hand, I myself am very concerned that when we consider spending a large sum of money, we have no idea how we pay it back yet. Is it going to require raised taxes later, cutting programs that may be necessary. We all know and should be worried that at some point, the health care system may run out of money. I myself support the idea that all people, rich or poor should get health care. If we give billions of dollars away to industries, do we sacrifice that? I want to hear your thoughts, not your anger at the fact that I'm left of center.


Gord. Robson, Nova Scotia
said

Mr. Ignatieff really had no choice but to go along with the BUDGET because of the following:
This is the worst time to be PM, no matter what you put or do not put in the BUDGET you are DAMNED by the MEDIA and the general population.

The G.G. made it clear that the LEADER of the COALITION had to be in for TWO YEARS.
Ignatieff DOES NOT want to share POWER with LAYTON for any TWO years!

He is interim Liberal leader until the leadership convention in May.

Some time after May he will topple the Conservative Government.

It is much easier to sit in opposition and PLAY TOUGH GUY and THREATHEN than be a hard working PM.

This "TOUGH GUY APPROACH" is turning many Canadians OFF.

UNDER the circumstances Prime Minister Harper is doing a GREAT JOB in a no win
situation.


jeanken@sympatico.ca
said

Although it sounds like a huge deficit, it is necessary at this time. I recall the recession of the 90's and remember that we had very little help for the unemployment and tough times that my husband and I had to endure. Funny thing is that when it is the Auto workers that get hit, there is a huge outcry of "not enough".
If the younger generation get hit with some of this debt, we must remember that a lot of it is infrastructure and that they would have had to pay anyway to upgrade later. Also keep in mind that after 2011 the war costs will not be there and that money can be spent to decrease the debt as well.
The entire world is going through tough times at the moment and the governments cannot do everything for the individuals affected. They can only do what they deem best, but no matter what they do there will always be complainers. As far as The NDP and Mr. Layton are concerned they obviously only wanted power. And the Liberals will wait until an election so they can blame the Cons for all the ills to get into power. How naive some of the voters are to the trickery of politicians.
Those of us who were around for the Trudeau years know all too well what trickery the Libs use, and the debt that was incurred. I wish all politicians could be honest and forthright to the people, instead of using games in parliament to achieve their own desires for power.


Sara in Sask.
said

The 64 billion dollar budget deficit should come as no surprise.

It is directly related to a 75 billion dollar bank bailout program for Canada's chartered banks, announced, virtually unnoticed, four days before the October Federal election.

The bank bailout received close to no media coverage; its budgetary implications were not analyzed. The $700
billion US bank bailout under the Troubled Assets Relief Program, was the object of debate and legislation in the US Congress.

In contrast, in Canada, the granting of 75 billion dollars to Canada's chartered banks was implemented at the height of an election campaign, without duly informing the Canadian public.
This is the most serious public debt crisis in Canadian history.
Read the whole story at globalresearch.ca


captbob
said

I am embarrassed at this budget

I know that the economic climate is very challenging, and that something needed to be done. I would rather it be done by a Harper government than a Liberal or coalition government. I know the political gun which was held to Harpers head. And infrastructure spending is tolerable- it is an investment of sorts into our society.

But I hate the idea of shafting my children.

I have four of them, and I have saved and worked to give them a good life. We all do that. We nurture and seek to guide our children. We lay up funds for education. What we don’t do is rack up the credit card debt and them hand them the bill.

But politically, we overthrow these concepts. We will do everything not to have our standards of living lowered, and are perfectly willing to pass the bill to our children. Shame on us.

And make no mistake about it: deficit spending is adding to our debit which will require the taxes of my children to pay off. We are giving them the bill for our problems. Why do we do this? Why are we entitled to pass the bill to the generation(s) behind us- something we would not think of doing on a personal level?

What will we say to them when they ask us, with incredulity: You spent our money on what? I am embarrassed at what we are doing.

Here are a few titbits reflecting the budgets provisions- new spending on top of already generous government programs:

$1 billion for "green" infrastructure, and $1 billion for clean-energy research.

We are doing enough on this front.

* $1.5 billion for job training

I can buy the need for this.

* $7.8 billion for social housing and home renovation, including a one-year only Home Renovation Tax Credit of up to $1,350 per household.

Why should the government subsidise my home renovations?

* $2.7 billion in short-term loans to the auto industry.

Loans? I don’t believe that. This on top of all kinds of largess for various industries.

* More than $1.4 billion for aboriginal schools, health, water, housing, community services and training.

When do we say enough?

We must cut our spending habits, reduce the size of government, and leave a legacy our children can manage. This budget does none of this.



Mike in Mississauga
said

Though I may not necessarily agree with their policies, the last time I checked, the Bloc Quebecois were democratically elected in Quebec, (with a strong majority). The Conservative party was also democratically elected in Alberta, also with a strong majority. Yet, why is it that accordingly to many posters here, the Bloc is irrelevant for their voters, but the Conservative party is not? Maybe this constant degradation of Quebecers’ democratic rights is what helps to fuel the cynicism of the Quebecois people. Many posters agree that it would be beneficial for Canada if our politicians worked together but, it seems only if they agree with their agenda. We expect our politicians to act like mature adults, but, maybe it is ourselves that need to do some growing up.


Elizabeth M.
said

Jackie,
The equalization formula was broken; that is why it had to be changed. Why on earth should the rest of Canada continue to give money to your province when you are making more money than most? Do you honestly think it is fair that Ontarians or British Columbians (for example) continue to pay your province money when you are making a killing with oil? Because it is a non-renewable resource? Notice that Ontario is now learning that automobiles are also not a renewable source of income(guaranteed, anyway). Your province has been allowed to collect money in a way similar to those who cheat taxes: don't claim all of your income and you will get a huge refund. THAT is why the formula had to change. Quit soaking the rest of the country, please.


Niagara George
said

Complain about the coalition all you want, but we only have this more civil tone from the Cons because of the very real threat to their hold on power.

Their first two years were filled with phony announcements that never materialized. Hopefully, these progress updates will prevent that from happening again.




Gabe
said

Many people seem to be "crying foul" about what is going on.

COALITION
The coalition was a viable option in December, after over a year of Harper playing bully on the opposition parties. That moment has passed and has been rectified due to Minister Flaherty creating a budget that incorporates ideals from the opposition parties.

BUDGET
The budget is sound - not perfect, but sound. Ignatieff is not "propping up" the Conservative government: he is helping to create an accountable and forward-thinking government.

All of you who are whining about Layton, Ignatieff, and Harper should be ashamed, as this is EXACTLY how a minority government is supposed to work!

Those of you complaining that Ignatieff has no right to propose amendments or demand changes "because he is not the leader of the country" are just silly!!! That is exactly his right (and his responsibility).

Let's see how this goes, people. Give it time to evolve. I think we will see a new, more co-operative Conservative government, as opposed to the harsh "governing by the stick" approach it was using prior to their close-call in December.

And, finally, let's not forget that we have it really good here in Canada, by and large, compared with many other countries. At least it is money where our biggest concerns lie, and not safety and war.

O Canada!


Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said

I have read comment's from people who feel we would not run a deficit without the stimulus.The government's own projection's tagged us with a $15 billion deficit for 2009 even without any stimulus as a result of decreased revenue's.I'm not one for deficit's as are a lot of people but with the enormity of this situation the government had no choice.Short term deficit's and borrowing against debt are all normal way's in which government's function in order to provide service's to taxpayer's.I have read comment's regarding tax reduction's as a stimulus.These are also needed to put more money into consumer's and business's pocket's to spend thus freeing up capital to enable businesses to finance growth. I do believe that in these difficult time's there need's to be a review of all government program's as to their usefulness and there cost of delivery.There should be no sacred cow's as government need's to be efficient in it's delivery of program's and cannot be running program's which do not meet the basic need's of Canadian's.Spending for social program's must be reviewed as should other program's which would be considered "frill's" to many Canadian's.Example's would be the art's and heaven forbid political party funding.We are at a point where we cannot afford these thing's as Canadian's are trying to get by with the basic's and maybe these monies could be channelled into energy from waste project's which will not only provide direct job's but will reduce our energy demand's and eliminate the need for landfill's and trucking garbage to the U.S. as is the case in Toronto.Let's optimize the use of our tax dollar's during these difficult time's for long term benefit not for political expediency.


Bob,Calgary,Alberta
said

I can't for the life of me understand why people continue whining about either the Liberals or the Conservatives. Harper has lost his way and has essentially become a Liberal in order to stay in power. It matters little which of the so called national parties is in power because Canada will not change. I had high hopes that a Conservative government would bring accountability,fiscal discipline,stop subsidies to industry,make equalization fairer and less onerous,improve our justice system,give the West a proper amount of power. That is all gone and we now have a LIBERAL government continuing the stupidity of the last 20 years.Canada is still a beautiful country, full of wonderful people but cursed with lousy governments.


Kevin in Toronto
said

Sara in Sask, there was no bank bailout in Canada.

The government purchased assets - such as guaranteed mortgages to free up liquidity within the banks. This frees up money previously tied up in waiting for mortgage payments, making it easier for the banks to loan out money.

In the end, the government will make a modest return on this investment.

A bailout is simply handing out money. This was a purchase of assets and more like an investment.


Edward Loder
said

It is fine to stimulate the economy and hopfully produce jobs. However, if these jobs are hired by means of growing temp services, we are cheating the most important people (the workers) and making greedy temp services richer. Does this government plan to do anything about the overused and unfair temp services? Lets put people back to work but make it an obligation for employers to hire themselves and NOT use temp services. (By the way I do have a full time job and NOT using temp services. Just concerned about others being cheated)


M M B Ont
said

THis budget may have passed but I do not like the Iggy's attitude. He is sounding like he is Mr. Know-it -all and in charge of everything. This from a man who has not lived in Canada for most of his adult life, returning just a few short years ago. He is arrogant and it's HIS WAY or NO WAY!. He shows no respect for the Prime Minister and is coming across as a Dictator. If the budget is flawed, then why did he vote for it? Because he knows he would look very stupid if he didn't.
Anyone claiming that Harper and the Conservatives have spent foolishly nneds to research their info and look back at the Liberal years. Many have already pointed out the foolish spending of the Liberals under Chretian, the leaky subs, Adscam, Gun registry, robbing the EI fund and many more. Add to that , Paul Martin and Chretian changed the EI so that many now do not even qualify to receive it and Martin dropped the rate to 55% of your wages. I would love to see Martin or any Politician try to live on 55% of his earnings. Shame on the Liberals.
Now it's time to give the Conservatives a shot at leading this country the way they were recently elected to do. For Iggy to even say if the reports in Mar are not favorable he will take over is ridiculous. Nothing gets accomplished overnight... especially in gov't. He is showing true arrogance and thinks he is the PM.


Red X
said

About the Renovations. It is more like 0.00015 to 13.5% of the reno project depending on how much you spend. Plus you have to book the work a few months in advance put up the money up front and will not get the tax credit to spend until you receive your 2009 tax return in 2010...

You have 1 month to buy RRSPs to save 15% in taxes. At the point you receive your tax return you can set up a TFSA during the year till Dec. 31. save $40 something bucks on a 3-4% rate of return.


Tono
said

Thank God Obama doesn't have to address Parliament and see the incredible mess Canada is in; where the official Opposition behaves like a parent towards the twice-elected governing party.


Diane
said

Yes, I can spell INFLATION.
Anybody who runs a business also knows how to spell the word COMPETITION.

This usually makes business charge a fair price for a job, and pay their taxes rather than cheating all of the other tax payers out their fare share of taxes. Worse still, the honest people have to pay more.




Tommy - Toronto
said

Bravo to Mr. Harper. All the complainers seem to forget that the government is dealing with an extreme crisis situation, and have to forsake its basic ideology and philosophy at this time. This budget certainly is a start in the right direction in terms of a stimulus and therfore has to invoke a deficit. Mr. Harper listened and learned since December, but still get critized by those who don't see the big picture, like Mr. Layton and Danny Williams. These 2 so-called leaders are so tunneled vision and arrogrant, acting like goons.


Harper is just another Socialist. Reform is dead.
said

The only way the government can pay for its projects and programs is by robbing others of the wealth they've generated. Indeed, the state's very existence is dependent upon wealth destruction. Therefore, it is absurd to believe that the government can create wealth. And if it cannot create wealth, it most certainly cannot "stimulate" the economy. It can only weaken and eventually destroy it.


Ontario says thanks for the loot, Harper.
said

Hailing Stephen Harper as the "Prime Minister who actually delivered" for Ontario, Premier Dalton McGuinty said the federal budget is just the tonic for the province's ailing economy.

In his first public statement on Tuesday's Conservative budget, the Liberal McGuinty crowed that it was a victory for his four-year-old "fairness" crusade for Ontario.

While provincial officials were still crunching the numbers last night, early Ministry of Finance projections estimate the federal stimulus package could inject between $17 billion and $19 billion into the Ontario economy over the next two years.


John E
said

Reports are reports and can be adjusted to suit the author. I believe in a Stimulus budget at this time, but not the wasteful tax breaks and the partisan equalization that's aim directly at Quebec and NL. I know history has shown that Tory times are tough time, but I sure hope we don't go back to the Mulrony days where 40 cents on every tax dollar went to paid debt servicing charges before we could spend tax dollars on anything else. People should not forget that only a dozen years ago Canada was going to be placed on "third world status" because our debt servicing was way out of whack with our GDP. Canadians might like the idea of a few bucks in their pockets now even if it's borrowed money, but wait until the piper comes a calling. Will we have the same smiles on our faces and will there be another Paul Martin that will have to dig us out of the hole we created? Eventhough we all hated the belt tightening we can now be very grateful for Mr. Martin. Caan you imagine the mess we would be in today if Paul Martin hadn't convinced us all to do the hard thing and rein in Gov't spending. If the current conservative had only held the line on spending and silly tax cuts we would be sitting pretty right now during this economic crisis. Now the budget is done, Harper must get rid of Flaherty ASAP.


KW
said

Our country needs new leadership and a spirit of cooperation. My sense from all these parties is that political maneuvering is more important than governing.

If any of these "leaders" were actually listening to Canadians, they would realize that we are fed up of the games.

Do your jobs and get this country back on track.


From the East
said

To Jim in Ontario:

"...or was it simply a vehicle to circumvent democratic due process?"

Sorry to dissillusion you, but under the British Parlimentary system, this is democratic due process.


BC Voice of Reason
said

I would really like a reporter ask the Professor his grading criteria as to how he will judge the Harper government. It seems that in a recession/depression the unemployment statistics should be the bottom line. Will the CPC government get a failing mark when it reaches 10%? Or when it reaches the average of 1994 to 2003 (Chretien’s years in power) 8.4%.

The crisis inducing unemployment rate of December 2009 is 6.6%



John form ONtario
said

To the fools who go on about how great the Libs are, the biggest deficet ever run in REAL DOLLAR figuers PM Trudeau, finance minister Chetchian, 44 billion in 83 in todays money 96 billion. the treatment of our largest trading partner and protector in the 90s by our government was a would wide embarisment, Liberals, oh and if you want to know why Iggy has only 1 ammendment now not 2 is Harper wont change the budget but will report on it and Iggy knows in an election he is dead and a coalition is a non starter. As for my brothers and sisters in NFL. Grow up, you now have money your now a have not province and when you have in these times you get less if you really want to change something next federal election tell Danny to shut to hell up and see who is winning and elect one or to of them.


Gail (Hamilton)
said

Like most Canadians, I support a party's policies and platform. I also realize that some parties want to force all Canadians to be charitable. We should be more charitable, but individually, it seems we're not charitable enough. I just don't believe that all monies I give already to many charitable organizations should go to the government first. Infrastructure spending is good for our communities, but it should be an ongoing expenditure at all levels of government and properly budgeted each year. US protectionism has already started and Hamilton Steel has now been shut out by a legislated stimulus package. Perhaps Obama isn't playing quite so nice with his Canadian fans.


John K
said

"CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife. "As Brian Mulroney used to say, you cannot win a majority government in this country without Quebec.""

When those new seats get added to Alberta, B.C., and Ontario (mostly in the suburbs and small towns), Quebec's importance and relevance in federal politics will be greatly reduced.


Upset Conservative!
said

The Conservative should vote against any amendments. What's happening here! As a true Conservative I cannot stand these ridiculously Liberal budgets where spending is the focus of everything! The Conservatives shouldn't take true Conservatives votes for granted! Bring back the real Conservative party, the Canadian Alliance.

Am I the only person who feels this way?


Lib fan
said

I think Mr.Ignatieff has done a great job, at least in this situation. His only real option was to support the budget, otherwise we would run into yet another election, which our economy cannot support.
I think its time to stop playing games in Parliament and get working. The economic crisis is worsenng and more and more jobs are being lost. HELLO!!!!!!!to those MPs who are still trying to bash and grab power; Canadians are in need of help. I really don't care who has power in the government as long as they do their jobs.


Gary Thunder
said

Now the Bloc will likely form a coalition with the Conservatives (from the article) and prop them up.
Now this will be interesting?? Won't it??
The quickest way for the Bloc to destroy Canada would be to prop up Harper.


Scott in Halifax
said

As a proud Conservative supporter, I gained a lot of respect for Mr. Ignatieff this week. It just goes to show what a cool head will do. All we have to need do now is pack up the circus and send Layton and that French guy away. The sooner they are gone the better.


Wes
said

Harper should act quickly to add the seats to the West and Ontario.

Time to balance the House of Commons.


Lib fan
said

I agree with you, Scott. We don't need a powerless NDP or a sepratist Bloc in the parliament right now. We just need a government that can work.


Mark _____ Petawawa
said

Well I must say that I am happy that Mr.Ignatieff has decided to pass the Budget. I fully support Mr.Harper, but I understand that the Liberals have set conditions, which is acceptable as they are the main opposition party. At least the idea of a Coalition is dead. Taliban Jack has proven to be more of a professional protester, as he disaproves "everything" in which the Mr.Harper and the Conservatives bring to the table, even if there is "some" good that would come out of it. He strikes me as looking out for his own agenda, and has turned it personal by disagreeing with everything that the PM says. If he would agree occasionally with ideas, and work together, maybe he would gain some respect. I will tell you, he has lost all respect as a Canadian Politician in my eyes (although there was never anything really to look up to), when he sided Gilles DuSeparate and the Bloc Quececois in trying to form a coalition. Now what is his real agenda?


Abdula from Ottawa
said

I'm sick of hearing that "Mr. Harper is the best prime minister this country has ever had" It is plainly not true ! because if it was we would not have had 3 consecutive MINORITY governments. The success of a government is based on how it serves the people and if the people don't support it, it is not serving them.

I would rather a cooperative government as we seem to be getting than a autocratic one which Mr Harper tried to do and failed. It is his own fault that he now has to go hat in hand to the liberals every time he wants to pass something. How is this the "the best prime minister this country has ever had?"


Steve in PEI
said

It seems like there are a lot of people on here who are are really ignorant about Newfoundland. Danny Williams is popular for a reason - he sticks up for Newfoundland and Labrador vigorously to the rest of the world, and he has delivered solid economic progress and infrastructure improvements at home.

I got mad at him for the flag thing, but I forgave him for that after a lot of things he did right... he stood up to celebrity idiots Paul McCartney and Heather Mills on CNN over the seal hunt, he forced the oil companies to accept Newfoundland's terms to take Newfoundland's irreplaceable resources over Hebron, and he told Abitibi-Bowater to shove it. Central Canadians think that when companies tell Newfoundland to spread her legs, the only answer should be "how wide." Danny Williams has stood up for Newfoundland. No More Giveaways! Newfoundland's resources are precious and for the most part irreplaceable. If Newfoundlanders don't benefit sufficiently let it all rot in the ground.

Newfoundlanders are anything but sheep politically but there's a reason why this government has so much influence. The provincial Tories are going nowhere soon. And Harper will play nice because Williams has proven his influence and Harper can't afford to take even a single seat for granted. He needs to improve his relationship with Williams to be more competitive in Newfoundland in the next election. Williams may be flamboyant, but if you think he's stupid, it only proves you don't know what you're talking about.


Mary in Calgary
said

Bravo to the Liberals... For once I am proud of them again!


Brian in Edmonton
said

I am a solid Conservative and am pleased with this budget. I hate to be running this large a deficit but these drastic times call for drastic measures.
I find it hard to believe any party could table a budget right now without running a massive deficit.
Like it or not, Ignatieff had little choice but to support this budget and his amendment is well intentioned. We need to ensure the budget issued are being implemented in as timely a fashion as possible and are producing maximum economic stimulus.
The Liberals know that bringing down the government and facing a possible election would be political suicide as the Liberals have no funds to run an effective election campaign at this time.
All parties need to work together and face these serious issues head on for the betterment of all Canadians.
They now say the Liberals are gaining support in Quebec....somehow I find that a little hard to believe.
Harper is now truly in the drivers as the other parties have all crossed political boundaries with their coalition threat that they will have to answer for come election time.


edCP
said

With all the politicking and gamesmanship going on by the federal parties would someone please tell me who is governing Canada?


John from Fredericton
said

I love it when the Conservative faithful is getting fractured!

I'm a Liberal and I can say that the same conservative approach to a budget would have devastating consequences on our economy. Just look what a conservative approach did to the United States.

I look froward to you small c conservatives voting ABC next election.


Peter Rapsey
said

Seeing as it is primarily a Liberal Budget, but without the competency, Mr. Ignatieff did what was smart. He should however keep the heat on on a regular basis. Mr. Layton is now irrelevant and has shown himself to be someone who does not understand the economy.
Mr. Harper...play nice if you can.


Dave in Courtenay
said

Like many posters, I am less than happy to see the federal government plan five years of deficits. However even $85 billion amounts to only $500 per Canadian per year. Assuming 50% of Canadians can't afford to pay even a single penny, that leaves $1000 per year to be paid by the rest of us. That is unpleasant, but hardly catastrophic; sort of on par with unexpected transmission repairs on your car. The key is whether or not the spending is effective in creating or keeping jobs in Canada. Every good job pays the government 20% annually in taxes, plus the avoidance of EI benefits, so over five years each job pays for itself in offsetting the accumulated debt.


Cambob
said

Michael Ignatief, the unelected leader of the Liberal party, has thrown out a coalition agreement he signed just 2 months ago.

Stephen Harper called an election while the economy was still in good shape, but half way through everything started to crash. He has changed his tune remarkably from September through to January.

Two men of principal and ambition. Both with a set of values.

One of them abandons democracy and takes over his party then tosses his 'coalition allies' to the dogs.
The other changes his stand on economics to reflect the risk of losing control of parliament to an fundamentally risky coalition. (and also to reflect the rapidly changing economy) Then he comprimises his core beliefs and delivers a budget busrting with spending which many economists and the general public agree is a good budget for these difficult times.

These are the two men who will ask for you vote in the Summer '09 election.

Choose wisely.


Jay, Ottawa
said

Gary Thunder said, "There is a group of Conservatives that are talking about splitting from Harpers dysfunction and forming their own Party. More power to them."

I've been waiting for this to happen for a while now. You can't rule, you must lead, if you want to keep people happy. Maybe it'll be the return of the Progressive Conservatives.




Keith in Brampton
said

I'm very disappointed that the Liberals did NOT make reversing the changes to equalization payments a condition of acceptance.

They wouldn't allow Harper to play dirty politics with THEIR funding, but now has no problem when Harper decides to take revenge against provinces who failed to support him?

I guess some Canadians are more important than others...


Brian - Winnipeg
said

Good for Mr. Ignatieff. I am a Conservative, but finally we have someone in opposition who acts like an opposition leader, and is willing to do his job by holding the government accountable for their actions.


Maureen
said

Any deficit can be laid solely at the feet of the coalition - they wanted the taps opened and so they are. Will any of this spending create jobs and help the economy? - no more than any government spending does. Canadians have clearly showed that they want their piece of the pie (as shown by all the single issues that people want money for). It is unlikely that much of this money is going to generate the types of stimulus people think it will. But since the media and the opposition parties have gone on and on and on and on about the 'need' for government to 'solve' this, then Harper has opened up the taps. I really hope that very little of it is implemented - I suspect by summer we will be through the worst of this recession, Iggy can follow though on his threat to bring the government down and then we can have an election and get a majority CPC government in. Then the Cons can take away the public funding of policital parties (which is just a money pit, particularly during the time of a recession) plus all the other waste that government likes to get involved in to make people feel good (and as we know it is all about people feeling good!)


Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said

The art's funding issue that cost conservative's vote's in Quebec in the last election only show's us the dependance Quebec has on federal money.This funding only goes to support the separatist agenda which permeate's Quebec society.The criteria hasn't changed in Quebec,give us the money or we won't play fair.Canada has been held hostage for generation's by Quebec's demand's,in many case's unreasonable.The bloc has succeeded by playing the nationalist card to extort money from Ottawa and the Conservative's and the Liberal's vie for favour in Quebec by giving in to their demand's.This has worked for year's as Bourassa was probably the most skilled at getting money from Ottawa in exchange for concession's which usually came back to haunt year's later.They have succeeded in eroding the federation,reduce non Francophone right's and continually extract more than their fair share through grant's and subsidy's for industry's that should have had to survive in the world without taxpayer money.Politician's have pandered to Quebec for generation's and all they have done is give them a feeling of entitlement that has stagnated their competitiveness and created an unrealistic expectation of government.The cradle to grave society has bankrupted the province and every consecutive Canadian government has made up there shortfall's through the equalization payment's or subsidy's.No provincial government will layoff worker's for fear of strike's and as such their bureaucracy is bloated and inefficient.Think back and all the crap the liberal's got into was all trying in some way or another to funnel money into Quebec without the approval of parliament.It make's you wonder what is going to be given away this time around.


Concerned Canadian
said

To Bob, Calgary Alberta:

I think you've expressed the disappointment of many Canadians who thought that the Conservatives might be more fiscally responsible than the Liberals, just as many people were disappointed in the States when the Republicans turned out to be even bigger spenders than the Democrats.

What this tells us, I think, is not that Mr. Harper is a hypocrite (although that may be true - look how he lied about the fixed election dates and not appointing people to the Senate), but that no matter which party is in power, there are certain economic realities that neither party can be held accountable for.

It is ridiculous, for example, to blame Mr. Harper for the recent economic downturn. It is equally ridiculous to complain about the deficit spending necessary both here and around the world to change the current economic climate.

Those arguing that we shouldn't spend the money are speaking from a fantasy world of ideology that we can no longer afford. Old-style Conservatism is dead, at least for now. And it was Mr. Harper who killed it, which does not speak well for his continued leadership of his party.

As Canadians, we are going to have to pull together to fix this problem. Let's hope we relearn some of the values that our forebearers demonstrated when they founded this country - concern for each other, and a willingness to put the good of the nation over our personal desires and downright greed.

Ironically, those are the very values that Mr. Layton's party has always espoused, but from the look of comments on these threads, not many Canadians still share those ideals because of ideological blinders.

Just remember that it was unbridled capitalism that got us into this mess. It's unlikely to get us out.


Michael
said

Mr. Ignatieff...parental supervision in the political playpen.

Canadians need stability right now, and not only are his actions offering it now; they are demanding it moving forward.

It's about time someone had the prudence and pragmatism to do the right thing.


Al
said

Even though I'm a liberal and don't like Harper, I have to say I am FINALLY proud of my government today, only Conservatives and Liberals though. For ONCE, they are putting people and the good of the country over their childish partisanship bickerings. This is no time At All for another election; we need our government and opposition to work for Canada as this is emergency. Right now we don't have the luxury of partisanship, and the government and opposition acted maturely! I never thought i would see this in my life... Mind you this is expected from them all the time...


Pete from TO
said

Hey Gary Thunder,

Do you think anyone is funding the Liberals?! are you going to suggest there isn't a split in that party?!

This is the budget the Coalition held the Governemnt hostage in order to get, what exactly are you complaining about?


Michale J Kingston
said

To Gid'day
Any idea what the deficit and
debt was when Mulroney left power? Wasn't it around $40 billion?


LivinDayToDay
said

I read a few of the posted comments. There is much back and forth from party hardliners. There seems to be less focus on the budget at hand that I would have imagined too. However, through the few posts that I did read, I didn't really notice any mention of proper thanks to the Coalition former (Lib, NDP, Bloc) for forcing the hand and making the PCs reevaluate their November budget. If we all recall, the November budget was very different than this one. In November the PCs projected a surplus, a fancy free budget with little worries. It was the coalition efforts that made them actually take a look at the current situation and now we have a massive deficit.
Thank you Lib, NDP, BLOC for making the PCs act in Canada's interests and not playing politics. I do enjoy the irony; a coalition political game has forced the leadership to stop playing political games.


Mike from Ottawa
said

So......let me get this straight. The Liberals are putting the ELECTED government, THE CONSERVATIVES, on probation. Makes sense to me.....NOT!!!!

I can see it all now in another year or so. The Liberals and Bloc will form a coalition and take over the entire country......yep the separatists and all new Canadians of the last 20 years or so will make all of us middle class Conservatives pay even more for forever supporting Quebec and the welfare bums that we have inherited. Way to go Iggy, you have made a triumphant return!!


Jack Layton
said

Jack Layton has just lost all credibility in my eyes (and Mr. Duceppe too, but I can't vote for him, being that I'm in Ontario - and I wouldn't want to anyway - so he's a non-point)

Choosing to vote against the budget even before it is introduced is completely out of line. That's not even politics - Layton is just being difficult now.

I used to have respect for you Mr. Layton. I even thought you might be a viable option to the Conservatives, but you have completely lost all my respect with this stunt.

Go Harper.


Maggie
said

Thank goodness for people like Armin who have long memories of previous liberal governments. Think how much more money the EI fund would have in it to help those who have now lost their jobs if the liberals had left the surplus in there. Some of these people slamming the Harper government should take a look back at the previous governments and how they performed before jumping on the liberal bandwagon. Ignatieff is an unknown and what exactly does he stand for? No one seems to really know.


proud Canadian, but wasn't under Lib leadership
said

how quickly you forget:
the sponsership scandal;
the mp who stated that it's his privilege to spend taxpayer's money for travel;
withholding ei funding to build a *surplus*; accountability refusal; hitting middle-income families with higher taxes; the embarassment of being a Canadian...this was the federal leadership and running of the Wonderful Liberal Party less than FIVE years ago.
The Liberal party? The "we let you in the PMO Harper so you'd better follow our advisement" attitude is LAUGHABLE!



From the East
said

To Gary thunder:

"There is a group of Conservatives that are talking about splitting from Harpers dysfunction and forming their own Party."

Did nobody learn anything over the Alliance Party Split? It created such a devision in the conversative vote that we were saddled with the Cretien government for ten years. You want to give a gift to the Liberal Party, split the conservative vote again.


DGL
said

We are spending a lot of money, but I don't think we have much choice given the world economy. I thank the Liberal leader for doing the right thing and not bringing down this Gov't. We need all political sides to work together now. I have no idea what Jack Layton is doing, but I don't think he does either. He is only interested in making trouble and not helping solve our economic troubles. He's lots of talk though.


Andrea
said

Wow this is good news for the liberals. They have been trying for awhile to gain back their support in Quebec. I can see the liberals winning the next election if this keeps up. But the question is, would it be a minority or majority govt.

I think the liberals would do well in a minority, and the majority is more tricky.


Cindy in Ontario
said

The budget has been passed.

The liberals think they are in power as they say they are putting the current elected government on probation.

The conservatives have bowed to the liberals and the NDP in more then one way...you see the middle class still did not get anything in this budget and according to Iggy, if the budget contained broadbased tax cuts for the middle class they would vote against the harper budget.

There is no need for another election to see if Iggy would form the next government...he is already pulling the strings in Ottawa.

Shame on Harper for giving in to him and the other two stooges. We once again have a spineless Prime Minister trying to lead this once great Nation!

to Diane,

I already get shafted on the budget and taxes...if I can get something done in my home and not have to pay further pst or gst then by God I am gonna do it! McGuinty has taken so much from the Ontarians in the form of taxes and the current government takes 22% of my pay weekly and I done come near the 45K mark!




Edwin from Toronto
said

NDP totally misunderstood the role of opposition party.

They are not suppose to "oppose" everything the the ruling party did.

They suppose to seek compromise or force the ruling party to compromise on important issues.

It is quite an easy job to be an opposition party if they can just put negative vote on everything.

Get out of the way to save the economy - NDP




Torontonian
said

I don't care what anyone says, Iggy made the right choice and is well-positioning himself to become the next prime minister in the future. He didn't anger the Canadian public and virtually made himself king-maker in regards to the progress of budget implementation.

To all those who are saying that a new right-wing party is being formed, that's the best news I've ever heard. We could use a divided right again to make sure that they don't get re-elected.

And to John K, have you looked at the electoral map lately? The total amount of seats west of Ontario (including the territories) is 80. Quebec alone has 75 (Ontario has 106). And the amount that the Tories got in the '905' is much less than what the other parties got in the Vancouver area alone. So, it would be ill-advised to say that Quebec and Ontario's electoral strength is 'irrelevant'.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

THE MEDIA CREATES A POT TO STIR
-----------------------------
"The simple message they want to get out is if you don't like Stephen Harper look to the NDP. The Liberals aren't the party you should be looking to, they're clones of the Tories so vote NDP," said CTV's Roger Smith."
-----------------------------
"If you look at this poll right now, basically it means the Tories are nowhere in Quebec, the Liberals are coming on fast, and when an election happens in a year's time when this recession is over, the Liberals could be poised to do very, very well in Quebec," Fife said."
-----------------------------

What's with the electioneering nonsense?! Like virtually all Canadians, I'm more than sick and tired of the worthless politics. We have a duly-elected Prime Minister. We have a government. Give it a rest, for heaven's sake.

WE WANT THE POLITICIANS COMPRISING OUR PARLIAMENTARY GOVERNMENT TO GOVERN THIS COUNTRY NOW!

Quit trying to drag us backwards all the time.



Bob in Winnipeg
said

It sure didn't take Jack long to get his attack adds on the air. Me thinks that maybe he had them all ready made up and just had to make a call to get them running.
You have to admire a man who has so many back room deals running all at one time. (not)
Say goodnight Jack your time is up.


Richard Murray
said

I'm not very pleased with the size of the deficit that we will be facing, however, given the few choices that Harper and Flaherty had, I believe they produced a reasonable budget for the times.
Am I a Conservative? You bet your sweet patootie. If we are ever going to get this country straightened out, these are the people we need in a majority position in Ottawa.
It was hilarious to see Talaban Jack and Gilles The Shill go through their contortions yesterday in front of the TV camera's.
I notice that Ignatieff, having no other choice, has meekly "assumed the position".
Hey Danny W., out there in stormy Newfoundland... every good fisherman knows, if you piss over the windward side of the boat, you get wet.



roy
said

Tracy,You must sleep with your head under the pillow at night because you are oxygen starved and don't know what you are talking about.Lady wake up and read the news this isn't a Canada problem its a world problem,dig your head out of the sand woman.


Mark
said

The requirement for the Conservatives to provide updates doesn't seem unreasonable - they basically do that anyway.
The only concern is knowing Uggy is one of those crafty Liberal lawyers and may be looking for extra inside information he can use for the benefit of himself or his friends, and not to necessarily to help the country.


Dan Riley
said

Iggy came here for no other purpose than to prop up North American/Wall Street/State Department interests. Canadians should be grateful: they now have two Stephen Harpers, and didn't have to bother going to the polls to get the second.

Democracy in action.


WestofTheRockies
said

More whining & snivelling from the Newfoundland crowd. Your Premier got you exactly what he and all who support him deserve. Canada has been supporting your province for well over 50 years. Now you have lots of income from Oil you think the money should keep coming and what’s more ….at the same rate!!

Oh hey, now here's an idea, how about a Thank You but we're doing better now we don't need as much. Nope you and your Premier are like spoiled children.
Given a choice between the original deal and a new deal he chooses the original AND all the benefits of the New Deal. Then when he's told it's either one or the other, not both he throws a tantrum.

We’re tired of supporting you and then being kicked in the shins because you’re not happy

Shut up!



dan riley in Vancouver
said

Iggy came here for no other purpose than to prop up North American/Wall Street/State Department interests. Canadians should be grateful: they now have two Stephen Harpers, and didn't have to bother going to the polls to get the second.

Democracy in action.


It's My Canada
said

GARY THUNDER, you're starting to sound like Jack Layton. He's a sore loser too.

As far as your contractors who work for cash, I think it's about time they started paying taxes just like the rest of us! Let's have some honesty there too, not just when it's convenient for you.

But Gary, thanks for letting all of us know what kind of snakes who don't pay taxes that supported the coalition.


Gus
said

The 2 party system has returned, so lets get on with the the Conservatives governing this country and the Liberals providing competent and effective opposition. If Ignatieff is smart he will permanently distance himself as far as possible from the Bloc and NDP. The Liberals win in all of this and still hang on to all of their traditional supporters but the Bloc and NDP don't. Next election, which my vote has it occurring in 2011, should be interesting.


Kerry In Calgary
said

All party loyalties aside, no matter what PM Harper is doing, or any other of the party leaders if they were PM, it makes no difference. The world economic crisis was created thanks to the US and more correctly, thanks to George Bush. Their sunken economy has reverberated around the world affecting every country, so stop blaming anyone in our own country and realize it doesn't matter. Until the US gets their act together and gets their economy on track, we're just along for the ride. And as for Danny Williams, you can't expect to tell all Newfoundlanders to vote against the Conservative and then expect PM Harper to grant all your wishes. Can't have your cake and eat it too Danny Boy! The people of Newfoundland should be calling you out for such a grave misjusdgement, I know as a former Newfoundlander I would if I still lived there!


Brian
said

I will give iggy respect..even though I'm a Harper supporter..Iggy is doing the right thing and being the opposition. He gave the budget a chance said if we're going to pass it we want to amend this this and this..that what an opposition does in a minority government.


Craig in Edmonton
said

Does anyone else see the bias here? When the conservatives do something pollsters report that as a "bump" in the polling data and very likely to settle down.

When the Liberals do something it is reportes as "the Liberals are establishing a strong lead" or the "Conservatives are nowhere".

Everyone knows the economy is the issue right now and no party wants to go to the electorate as a result, this is why Ignatieff is doing what he is by saying the Conservatives are on probation.

Wake up people, the Liberals are spinning reality again here and the media is being played by pollsters who are giving you the data they want you to see. This data is like Alberta weather, don't like it wait 10 minutes, it's not an indictment or endorsment of any party.


Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

Concerned Canadian wrote: “Those arguing that we shouldn't spend the money are speaking from a fantasy world of ideology that we can no longer afford.”

The argument against deficit spending has nothing to do with ideology.

Government spending has never worked against structural recessionary pressure. In the US more than a trillion dollars has produced no discernable economic traction. Resources are limited, and how we apply them now restricts future choices. We are throwing money at symptoms.

For government to borrow to develop capital has a potential productivity impact; borrowing to sustain operations does not. Government will eventually be faced by a dilemma: increase taxes significantly to offset inflationary pressures in inefficient entrenched service provisions; or abandon services. Not curtailing services in a controlled way configures the country for a chaotic collapse.

The poster went on to write, “Just remember that it was unbridled capitalism that got us into this mess.”

That assertion is wrong. What perpetuated this mess worldwide was consistent regulatory malfunction, combined in Canada with a massive increase in social funding during the Trudeau era that was unmanaged by subsequent governments.

If our government is running a deficit because of operations it has two rational choices: cut services, or raise taxes to cover shortfalls. As a populace, we have to ask if what we get in return for our taxes has enough value to tax us more heavily, or, as in the case of deficit, tax future generations more heavily.

The fantasy is that we can abdicate our responsibility and leave the task to future generations, at the same time as we cripple their future access to resources. The same fundamental argument applies to governance, public debt, environment, and most other long-term human interactions.

Some of us prefer not to let others clear our messes.



Doug BC
said

One thing I think we are all missing,is that NONE of these parties,or any of it's leaders has ALL the answers.
I was Liberal.I am now Conservative.Not because I like everything about the Conservative policies,or dislike everything about Liberal policies.Anyone who agrees entirely with any one of the parties,is either to partisan,or simply ignorant of the facts.
If a united Canada is to survive,citizens need to stop thinking we will do better just by changing the faces in Parliament.That is simply re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
We need to change "the way" we govern.This system is to adversarial to be effective.After the election the real "coalition" should be between the two parties that got the lions share of the support.Not with the ones who exist on the fringes of either a left wing ideology,or a right wing ideology.Both the BLOC and the NDP simply pander to which ever party needs their votes to keep the government in office.
In minority situations,if a compromise is needed to deal with an issue,that compromise should be between the government and the official opposition.Not some fringe party with limited support.
We NEED the expertise of BOTH the Liberals and the Conservatives.That is where most Canadians are.
Trudeau abandoned the political centre to get support from the NDP.They stayed out in left field so long that they might now be labeled NDP Lite.
Ontario thinks Harper is to right wing.Alberta thinks Liberals are socialists.Both have a right to their own lifestyles,and neither should rule the other.
The real threat to unity in Canada,is our inability to resolve that.I am not fan of Harpers,but better that than being dictated to by Ontario socialists.
REFORM THE SENATE.I may then be more willing to listen.


Ig is King???......
said

Mr. Ignetieff is not stupid. He is supporting the budget because the Liberal party cannot afford an election.

He knows that the majority of Canadians just want this whole mess to be over with. Most did not want a coalition government.

If he allows the budget to pass he gets a few things back in his own pocket.

He gets support from the Liberal Canadians, he gets a pat on the back from the Conservative Canadians and he gets a year or two to prepare for an election.

He feels he is above our PM, putting him on probation? Come on, the only person really who can put our PM on probation is the GG.

He looks like he is taking the high road but is just sitting back waiting and waiting until the opportunity to pounce, blame all the world economic troubles on the PM and bash our government to bits. Then, he will begin campaigning to win the election. Worst is, he just fell into the seat, never earned it and never was elected into it. Opposition Party Leader DESIGNATE. Hail King Ig. I still don't trust him.




Brenda
said

I think we all need to stop and realize that we live in the best country in the world. Why are we always blaming the 'govt' for our own failures? How long can we continue to bail out provinces that no longer have resourses to sustain themselves before we say enough is enough. Each province needs to stop looking for a handout and come up with some new resourse ideas instead of continuing to try to get $ from resourses that dried up years ago. Come on Canadians, let's stop looking for that cheque in the mail and get off our butts and help create our own future in this great land we live in!


diane ontario
said

when mr. ignatieff speaks I have to turn the tv off. The arrogence, huge disrespect he shows the Prime Minister of this counrty makes me sick. He said more than once, he will take over this government. Mr Harper has about 140 seats and ignatieff 70 something seats. Does this guy care about the voting process. He sounds rude, mean and very much like a dictator. I hope Canadians do not just listen to liberal lies but check out for themselves what the truth is. How the liberals took EI money, put health care on the provinces stole our money ect.


MaryAnn/ Calgary
said

Give your heads a good shake, people. The conservatives won the election and appointed Mr. Stephen Harper as Prime Minister of Canada. Perhaps a little bit of respect should be given to the leader of Canada...whether you like him or not!!!...All of a sudden this Iggy is calling the shots and putting the Leader of Canada on probation and babysitting him??? Wow!!! That is nothing short of disgusting!!! Iggy, who spent what...30 years or so in the States...then all of a sudden he's back in Canada running our country and telling our Prime Minister what to do and when and how to do it??? What a pathetic joke. Way to go Liberals...

Concened Canadian
said

To Frank Buchan:

Thanks for your comments Frank, which seem intelligent and respectful. Can I just raise two things in response?

When I said "unbridled capitalism" I was referring to the lack of regulation which you also cite. Capitalism is a very powerful economic engine, but as we have seen, without proper oversight it seems to tear itself apart.

As for your other point concerning social programs here in Canada- weren't we able to have government surpluses while funding those programs? You say this was consistently unmanaged - I'm not sure what you mean here, but it seems that we can afford government social programs and run at least a balanced budget as long as the economy is sound, wouldn't you say?

In fact, isn't it the ethical thing to do for us to ensure that we don't pass on deficits to future generations, nor environmental catastrophe, while meeting our social obligations to the less fortunate?

Anyway, my main point is that we need a new paradigm for thinking about our economic/environmental health in the context of our mutual social obligations. I don't see that extreme points of view, from either left or right, will allow us to achieve that. As we have seen, communism collapsed because of economic inefficiency, while unregulated capitalism tears itself to shreds while destroying much of the social fabric.

What can we do to solve these problems?

Cheers


condogirl in Edmonton
said

CTV's Robert Fife seems to have found a crystal ball that indicates that "when an election happens in a year's time when this recession os over". I would like to know how he figured this out, as no one else on the planet has been able to predict how long the recession will last, or when the next election will happen.
Liberals do well in Edmonton - never gonna happen Mr. Fife, and how many seats did the Liberals lose in Ontario in the last election????


R of N.L.
said

DRH, methinks that the "newfies" next vote could very well be one for separation...


Mary in Calgary
said

To Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario) -
I hope you run for office. Very well put. : )


Patricia
said

Mr. Ignatieff is in a position of power right now and he should have told Harper that more was needed, such as further changes to EI. Ignatieff missed his golden opportunity! Harper would have been forced to comply.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

@ Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)

"The fantasy is that we can abdicate our responsibility and leave the task to future generations, at the same time as we cripple their future access to resources. The same fundamental argument applies to governance, public debt, environment, and most other long-term human interactions."

Thanks, Frank, for your rational condemnation of our overblown budget. (Your post deserves full reading.)

Canadians tend to be very "dependent" thinkers with regard to this issue. Because some wonky liberal economists and politicos in other nations have embraced flooding the economy with public (and borrowed) money, we seem to consider it OBVIOUS that this is the way out of our troubles.

While a sensible argument can be made for such massive "shot-gun" federal spending by our American neighbours, given their entrenched plight (and the genesis of it), with Canada traditionally riding on the U.S.'s coattails it stands to simple reason that their inevitable rising tide will surely lift our boat...and, therefore, plunging into unprecedented spending-driven debt in Canada is needless and even foolish.

Oh, well. Full-speed ahead. The course has already been set. The "Hail Mary" pass has been thrown. ...Sorry, kids.


Bill Arends
said

Doug BC, said:

"Ontario thinks Harper is to right wing.Alberta thinks Liberals are socialists.Both have a right to their own lifestyles,and neither should rule the other.
The real threat to unity in Canada,is our inability to resolve that.I am not fan of Harpers,but better that than being dictated to by Ontario socialists."

And he is somewhat correct as unity is the problem but there is no solution if we think this way. It is not a compromise but a solution we are seeking.

Unity needs to be achieved at the grass roots level not just in parliament. When we the people vote we need to think what is best for Canada not BC or Alberta or Ontario.

As Pierre Elliott Trudeau said “Canada will be a strong country when Canadians of all provinces feel at home in all parts of the country, and when they feel that all Canada belongs to them.”



Kris in Toronto
said

Hey Frank Buchan:

I have news for you:

Regulatory malfunction (fancy way to say no oversight) = unbridled capitalism.

And blaming Trudeau for this economic crisis? That's rich man. He was PM, when, like 30 - 40 years ago?

Gotta love when Conservatives are backed into a corner, they all whip out "Trudeau" and "socialism".

Well, all I know is whenever we have Liberal governments our country prospers and usually our debt gets paid, doesn't get increased.


OldTeddyBear
said

All this talk about the deficit and how great the liberals are (I don't think that any of the parties are great) ***PLEASE REMEMBER*** Deficit spending was introduced in the Trudeau years with Chretien as finance minister. And where has that gotten us... in debt.


Alex (Toronto)
said

It's amusing to see the ultra-right-wing bloggers complain about Harper's realization that he only has a minority in parliament. Those of us in the centre and left would love to see the Conservatives split off their extremist wing; let the Christian Heritage brownshirts carry their hateful ideas away from Parliament, instead of sitting on Tory back benches as they do now. Though we aren't holding our breath for that to happen.

It is obvious that any option that Mr. Ignatieff chose would have been criticized by some people; in fact, some commentators on the far left and the far right were prepared to attack Ignatieff no matter what choice he made. That's just a flaw on the part of the extremists, not Ignatieff.

The reality is that the Canadian electorate includes a wide range of perspectives that barely fit into the existing four-and-a-few-more parties we have now. Responsible parties and party leaders have to look at policies, not personalities and optics. That's what Mr. Ignatieff has done, and what the Conservatives have been forced to do.

The only choice the NDP is ever going to have is whether to support a Conservative minority or a Liberal one. They're going to get that choice, this year or next year. They probably should not paint themselves into a corner if they want to play a role when the opportunity does arise. Layton's base of urban voters actually want their policies enacted, which can only happen if the NDP leaves a door open to cooperation with Liberals in the near future.


laughterrocks
said

The only reason the Liberals voted to support this budget is because they knew if Canadians went to the polls again the Conservatives would get a majority government. Ignatieff had no other choice. Plain and simple.


Zinjo - Vancouver
said

It's nice to see Iggy following through with his word. He said the Libs would support the budget if enough was done to help and insulate Canadians and to some extent it has.
Layton, ever the opportunist, is no doubt steaming over loosing his opportunity to form some sort of government, but hey, he'll get his chance to bring down yet another government in the months to come, if Harper continues his old habits.

This is more about stabilizing our economy to benefit the electorate, not ideologies or opportunism.

As for the maritimes, the only way for them to get back their oil profits is to bring back a Liberal government in a majority. These Conservatives are bought and paid for by Alberta oil, not Maritime oil...

For those who "claim" to be former Liberals, give us "real" liberals a break! We know the smell of manure when it wafts its way on to these boards and it fools no one...

I was no fan of Dion, but it was never enough for me to change what I believe or my ideology. I remember the Mulroney years and how it took the Libs a decade to balance the books. No thanks, not again!

This budget isn't the best we could have had, but it is certainly a stabilizing influence on the markets, which is critical for us to weather this storm.


Linda in Vancouver
said

Regional differences still rule the day.I'm a bit more conservative than this budget deficit represents.
BUT,people even more conservative than I am,while having good reason to feel less than happt here,should be careful about another version of the Reform Pary.
I don't take exception to their views,or their right to be heard.What I fear is hat his simply shoots all people with any kind of conservaive view in he foot by handing all of Canada back to the socialsits in eastern Canada.That would be the best hing you could do for Taliban Jack and his cousins in the thieving Liberal party.
This is a bad budget for any conservative.But we also have to take a little water in our wine.We can be thankful that Canadians have moved slightly right in he last few years.And a big part of that is as a result of people like Preston Manning preaching about the hazzards of big debt,and big taxes.
More and more Canadians are taking that same view now.Progress may be to slow,because the task is quite large.But we should remain united.We will not get everything,but we can make a positive difference in changing the attitudes of the big taxers,and the big debt supporters.
Now is not the time to get off the bus,and put socialists back in the drivers set.We need to fight to get "the best deal we can from what is available".
That is the ONLY way to move Canada forward.


James from Vancouver
said

For all of you that are giving the OK to this budget: Are you really OK with giving the banks another $50 billion bailout? On top of the $75 billion they already got? When they publicly state that lending is not down, but up?

While regular Canadians suffer, the banks are the ones who are going to be making money hand over fist for years to come as they collect interest on all the new loans, credit card bills, re-mortgaged houses etc that desperate Canadians are getting stuck with. Why are we giving the masters of Greed $50 BILLION BONUS when everybody else is tightening their belts?


Gary Thunder
said

It's My Canada
GARY THUNDER, you're starting to sound like Jack Layton. He's a sore loser too.

As far as your contractors who work for cash, I think it's about time they started paying taxes just like the rest of us! Let's have some honesty there too, not just when it's convenient for you.

But Gary, thanks for letting all of us know what kind of snakes who don't pay taxes that supported the coalition.
=============================
Most of the 'Snakes' you refer to are off duty cops, firemen,city workers and others who have a lot of time on their hands and run contracting businesses on the side.They do pay taxes.
That $3,000 renovation job under the table will now cost $10,000 and cause inflation which we don't need.
I don't like and do not think we need the government running huge deficits.
All I see in this budget is handouts that saddle us with debt and will not create 1 job, but make a lot of bankers and large corporations rich.
Conservatives used to stand for less government, now they are just tax collectors.


Fed Up with whiners
said

So Iggy "demands" that the Conservatives update parliament 3 times in the next year. That's all??? They were going to do that anyway!! What leadership! What audacity to demand something impossible like that! Stephane Dion could have done that.

As for Jack and Gilles (sic), they can pick up their ball and go home. They don't want to play anymore. Acting like petulant children. I hope Canadians who voted for those 2 clowns remember this in the next election get rid of them and the rest of their ilk.

And now we need a real Conservative party in this country. This budget was written by Liberals.


Hunter Mars
said

Only fifty per cent of the unemployed qualify for EI .
The rules must be revamped to protect more Canadians .
Regionalism does not work .
All unemployed should be treated equally whether you live in Cornerbrook or Victoria .


Donna/BC
said

Very interesting comments.

I think what people are so passionate about stems right back to the announcement of "the coalition". While understanding the process, I was still horrified that we would actually have a parliament in place that "the people" did not elect. This was like a third world dictatorship closing in.

No, the budget doesn't help me or my family in any way; BUT for the good of the entire country in this GLOBAL RECESSION, I hope that the initiatives in this budget will stimulate and help our people, cities and provinces where needed.

1. Look back into history what the Liberals have done.

2. It was often said (in Liberal times) that "as long as Ontario is happy, to hell with the rest of the country".

3. MEDIA heavily influenced by the Liberals. Perhaps some positive reporting and positive comments, even in this trying time, would be easier and helpful for the good of the entire country.

We now watch as the rest of the world deals with this recession. Hopefully our politicans and citizens will concentrate on surviving this global recession.




Rob
said

The NDP,BLOC and the unions should leave Canada and never be heard from again. There the ones that are to blame for some of the mess today. Me, Me, I deserve the world, now you have nothing. Give Your Heads a Shake! They have driven up the cost of our kids education and put them into debt, transit strikes, can't afford health care or an education. Times had better change for our kids sake. Wake up!


Harper rejoins the Liberal Party.
said

The only reason the Conservatives amended this budget is because they knew if Canadians went to the polls again the Conservatives would get another minority government. Harper had no other choice. Plain and simple.


Tono, it's the US that's in an incredible mess.
said

US is in meltdown.

Canada just has its usual Parliamentary politics . . . far superior to the criminal antics of the US Congress.




More money left in my pocket please
said

We have been so focused on the budget that one area we have not heard alot about lately is why gas, which dropped to the 60 some cent range is now up 15-20 cents per litre when the price per barrel is lower and there is tons of supply.

I think once the budget is settled and established we need to hold the government accountable for other costs we continue to bear at a higher price than should be....



Laughing in Calgary
said

So i guess we are just waiting for amendments from the NDP and the Greens. LOL


SVCR
said

Will somebody do Canada a favour and push the Bloc off our rock!
Gilles only worries about iddy biddy Quebec and could careless about the rest of Canada.
What does he actually think he is proving when his party does not even exist as a powering body in Canadian politics, just Quebec politics which needs to find a Ford light for a better idea!!!!!!!!


Harper dithered and dithered until
said

Ignatieff told him what to do.

Harper, gratefully, obeyed.




I don't hear Harper giving Ignatieff any grief.
said

Harper is firmly under Liberal control.

Yes, sir, Mr. Ignatieff, sir.




KRB
said

Gid'day, the deficit that Trudeau left Mulroney (8.3% of GDP, $38 billion) would be equivalent to $132 billion!! Not the $60-80 billion that you said.

We were also bringing in only 97 cents per dollar of program expenditure, meaning we were in deficit even before taking into account debt servicing charges.

That was the worst we've ever had it, fiscally speaking, during peacetime in this country.


Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

Concerned Canadian:

Qualifying your "unbridled capitalism" comment gives your view more weight. Failure to regulate any system is a mistake, and I was partly trying to observe it’s not correct to blame the concept of capitalism for our human failure to manage it. I suppose I was being overly specific, but I find these issues today are suffering from generalisations.

Early on our social program funding didn’t cause immediate deficit because in good times we could/can sustain a fairly large rate of burn. The problem is government became complacent about how to sustain those programs during tough times. What I meant by "consistently unmanaged" was that rather than regularly review and optimise social programs, they feared entitlement – and when that happened they became afraid to manage the programs for our betterment.

It is absolutely vital to meet social obligations to the less fortunate. That, in fact, is one of my most basic concerns. Lack of expenditure control today will drain future resources and options. Unless we aggressively consider the options we have presently, and are willing to shoulder some pain, we are betraying the people who are counting on us to correct mistakes – and ensuring they have far fewer options in future.

I agree extreme viewpoints are problematic. Balance is the key, but to find it you need to actually look...and part of my point, I suppose, is that it seems that we have stopped looking, probably for fear of what we might find. What we would find first and foremost is that we can fix all of this in our lifetimes with almost nothing unbearable, but we seem to lack the courage of the founders of the country.

I would jot more, but that dastardly 300 word limit is not really capable of handling detailed analysis of anything.



If there are any genuine conservatives
said

in Harper's Conservative Party, they should consider forming their own party, a Progressive Conservative Party, as exist in provinces.




Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

Kris in Toronto:

Your "news" to me is obscured by the tone of your message, but I have some further thoughts to share.

Regulatory malfunction is unrelated to a system of economy. The same regulatory malfunctions killed communism. You cannot blame a system of economy for the choices made by its participants. Greed is real, but it is about the people, not the system. As for whether regulatory malfunction means oversight, it does not: regulation is systemic, and oversight is the application of systemic policy. I was observing the actual failure was with the system in place to govern oversight, which guaranteed the oversight would eventually fail.

Notably, I did not "blame" Trudeau. In fact, I have great respect for him. His idea of a social network was admirable and ethically sound; but, after it was installed, subsequent governments ignored a need to manage it for sustainability. Trudeau himself, if he were alive, would probably agree on the point. To sustain any program, social or otherwise, you must treat it as a means to an end, not an end in itself. Social programs are not an entitlement, they are a privilege we can afford – but we will lose them unless we manage them.

I am a conservative, and will not apologise for it. I will note I never mentioned socialism, and I am not feeling cornered by anything much today.

As for your contention Liberal governments manage the economy better, I refer you to how the last two Liberal Prime Ministers managed to run surpluses. Ignore the taxation issue entirely, and reflect on downloading. Had this economic downturn struck while either was Prime Minister, we would be in the exact position we are now, because all but one driver in this recession is external to Canada.



Mal
said

I seem to recall Ontario shipping cash to the have-not provinces for decades.... I'm sure Alberta and Saskatchewan are doing so now, yet I hear no whining from them. Danny and Newfoundlanders, your are a HAVE province. I know it's hard to get used to but it's your turn to pay our rent.... hopefully for a very short time but you had no complaints accepting money from Ontarios governments. And ya, having no voice at the cabinet table was brilliant, as many have said reap what you sew.


Joleen Watson
said

Ignatieff stands up to Harper and gives him an ultimatum to become accountable for his actions like Harper already promised. Ignatieff prevents the coalition, Ignatieff prevents another election to me it sounds like Ignatieff has become the true leader of our country even if he is not in the appointed position he has found out how to have the control and use it for his ability. He is growing fast in popularity and this means that soon as Harper is finished destroying our country Ignatieff can go about fixing it. We have always been a few years behind the states in everything they do, first they go to war, a couple years later we go to war, they go into recession, later we go into recession, then they wake up and vote out Bush, the end of the story is we are going to wake up to and realized that Conservative Days are Troubled Days and vote Harper out too.


Des from the Peg
said

I believe now more than ever that it is time to table legislation that forces all parties that wish to run Federally to field candidates in all provinces and territories. In doing so, we eliminate fringe and self interest groups that only represent themselves, and not Canadians and we probably would not be in the politcal mess that we are currently in today.


Ian
said

God help us all. The NDP are nothing more than an english version of the Bloc.


Bill Withers
said

What about all the poor REALTORS Didn't hear about them in that budget. They spend an average of 50000 each and pay an average of 43000 each per year, so everyone else can eat.


Dan
said

Hey Tracy, if you are looking to the Liberals to bring pride back to Canada then you'll have to wait a long time. Iggy says he'll support a coalition while behind the scenes is doing everything he can to seize power from Dion in a coup. Then as soon as he is appointed leader, he suddenly comes to his senses and realizes that the coalition is a bad idea. He doesn't really tell us that though, but his actions speak louder than his weasel words. He's no better a leader than Dion, and at the end of the day he will only vote down the Conservatives if it's in his best interests, not the best interests of Canadians. So give us all a break with your "the Liberals are the only party that can run Cananda or should ever be allowed to run Canada" baloney.


Iggy is misleading the public
said

Iggy is a fraud..They have for 37 years, reported quarterly fiscal updates even in a majority government.
Just another example of the Liberals trying to wow the public with lies. Iggy is the same as all other Liberals, misleading, do anything for power.
Atleast Harpers policies benefit the average Canadians life. I'd rather a flip flopper than a liar!!!!!!!!!


Chris Hein
said

I can't help but laugh. Not a big fan of the Liberals but in the economic times, we need stability and thats what happened. Both the US and Canada are trying theoretical attempts to stabalize and revitalize the economy. ANY party that would be in power would be trying their own things to stabalize the economy.

So Layton, stop acting like a baby that lost his lollypop, lick your wounds and move on, or die in your own vile.




Kim in Calgary
said

To Bob in Calgary:
Then I guess the leader of your conservative party was not the leader that he has led you to believe. Funny how most Canadians could see this. The budget is presented by the Conservative party and as such is a Conservative budget - let's ensure we keep this point factual shall we.


Mike in Edmonton
said

The Bloc and NDP wanting to remove tax cuts for the middle class. I thought the Bloc and NDP were for the middle class!

Their true colours are showing!


Leadership?
said

You know, any of the leaders, such as Layton, who go on these public, negative rants, do not deserve to be in office.

I am sure that there are many like me who are totally disgusted with their childishness.

And some people wonder why some Canadians would like to have a leader with character, like Obama.

Our parliament is pathetic!

Right now the world is looking at us as an example of a country who is doing fairly well during the global economic downturn, and I shudder to imagine what they are thinking of our juvenile leaders.


Ian
said

It's so annoying to have to keep reminding Liberals that Mulroney inherited a whopping deficit from them when he took over. Please read your history books for a change.


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