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Liberals back budget but put Tories on 'probation'
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Date: Wed. Jan. 28 2009 7:25 PM ET
Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff offered his support for the federal budget Wednesday but said the Tories will be put on "probation" and must provide frequent progress reports.
Ignatieff, speaking in Ottawa, said Liberal support will require that the Tories issue reports to Parliament on the budget's implementation and its cost in March, June and December.
"Each of these reports will be an opportunity to withdraw our confidence should the government fail Canadians," Ignatieff said.
Ignatieff called Tuesday's budget a "flawed" document because, among other things, it fails to extend EI eligibility, attaches strings to infrastructure dollars that may delay projects and jobs, and lacks a credible plan to get out of the deficit situation.
However, he also said the budget includes important concessions such as affordable housing, skills development and measures to make credit available to businesses.
"These measures are only in the budget because the opposition parties did their job, because the Liberal Party in particular remained resolved to hold Mr. Harper to account," Ignatieff said.
"We will not abandon that resolve now."
He said the budget does not include one word about accountability.
"We are putting this government on probation," Ignatieff said, referring to his amendment that the Tories provide frequent updates on the budget's implementation.
"... should Mr. Harper fail to satisfy the expectations of Canadians, we will be ready to defeat him and lead in his place."
Conservative House Leader Jay Hill said that the budget is good news for the many Canadians struggling through the recession.
"I'm very pleased on behalf of the Canadian people that need this assistance," he said Wednesday afternoon.
Responding to the Liberals' amendment which forces the Tories to report back to Parliament, Hill said that the government has always been accountable.
"We will continue to do that," he said. "The amendment just states the obvious."
Both the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois have stated that they will be voting against the budget. In order for it to pass, the support of the Liberals was needed.
NDP Leader Jack Layton was hoping to form a coalition government with the Liberals.
At a press conference shortly after Ignatieff's, Layton attacked Ignatieff over his decision.
"This is the first really important decision in public life that Mr. Ignatieff has had to make... and what he decided to do was to stick with Mr. Dion's unfortunate voting policy of propping up Mr. Harper," Layton said.
"When the Liberals vote for Mr. Harper, with or without a fig leaf of an amendment, they will be casting their 45th straight vote to keep Stephen Harper in office. You can't do that and pretend to be the alternative to Mr. Harper."
Layton said Canadians can't rely on Ignatieff to oppose Harper.
"If you oppose Mr. Harper and you want to replace him, I urge you to join with the New Democrats and support us in the next election," he said.
CTV's Graham Richardson said a senior NDP staffer told him that the "next NDP campaign starts now."
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe said the Liberals were "letting Quebec drop at its first opportunity" by choosing to support the budget.
"By voting in favour of this Conservative budget, the Liberals will also vote against Quebec," he said in French.
"Just like the Conservatives, the Liberals will also vote against social justice and salary equity and vote against a green economy."
On Tuesday, after months of speculation, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty tabled the budget, which includes $85 billion in deficit over the next five years. The deficit in the 2009-2010 fiscal year will be a shade under $34 billion.
Flaherty's spending plan includes $40 billion in economic stimulus over the next two years in the form of infrastructure spending and tax cuts
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.
Comments are now closed for this story
Gary Thunder
said
He said it was the 'responsible ' thing to do.
We now know the Conservatives were running a structural deficit during the last election. Harper lied to us. That is why he called an early election, that is clear now.
If the Liberals do not topple him now, we will end up like the US after 8 years of Bush.
Stephen from Montreal
said
NS
said
When did Canada become a communist country with the opposition playing dictator.
I am not sure what else the PM could have done. I guess giving the MPs a huge payraise may have gotten their support. The Bloc and NDP stated that they were not going to support the budget even before it was presented. The BLoc Leader saying that it is not in "Quebec's" best interest. The last time I checked Canada included more provinces than Quebec. If Duceppe wants to play Quebec politics, fire him out of Ottawa and send him home, he can try his hand at Provincial politics in his own province. There is no way that anyone wanting to separate form this great country should be able to be elected as a federal party. If you look at the past these clowns having been running the country for quite a while. Punt them.
PB _ Toronto
said
bgsig in SE Ontario
said
Seriously, looking at the party leaders, I can see why people are so disillusioned over everything - we've got a man in love with his mirror, a man in love with his ideas, a man in love with microphones, and a man in love with an ideal (and a pension)... too bad we can't pick and choose parts of platforms... but where would we get the necessary patriotism and self-sacrificing character? Not from any of these guys, it seems.
vince in trenton
said
Denny in Sask
said
Alex
said
Scott/Hfx
said
Right now the way this country is going, we need another election since the true facts have been revealed about this coalition vermin. Much more of this crap from them, and we'll either have the country break up, or have a civil war, because Layton, Iggy, and Duceppe are driving people to extreme stress levels!
sue
said
wreck76
said
this budget sucks. time to dump the house and start over.
Jeff Olsson
said
Pete Fisher
said
Penny Bachynski
said
Susan in Halifax
said
Anthony
said
Neil, NL
said
Lower income still screwed?
said
Try to do what's right for Canada, not youself!
said
If he doesn't, we will show him what is good for the country and his party will go down as we put in place a PC majority government.
Greed for his own ambition will bring him down as it did for Dion. The other 2 clowns we never expected much of them.
The NPD is taking a big risk here and doing it for the wrong reason.
Nick V - Toronto
said
It's really easy to sit back and criticize the Harper government. But how about everyone works as a team to solve the problem at hand. Another election is waste another $25 million dollars.
I really hope after this election that Harper has a super majority to end this clowning around. People are loosing their jobs, their homes and will be going hungry. Enough BS already lets move forward otherwise I see a big blue tsunami coming and it has the Liberals, NDP and the Bloc in its sites.
Drowning!
said
We can't afford this budget and we can't afford an election, we're done for!
Pat Leduc
said
Dave Ontario East
said
Brad from Oshawa
said
DH
said
Mark in Burlington
said
David Mike Montreal
said
call centre staff to India,mfgrs and importers dont buy from Canada..too expensive=less job market.The budget will help but why does TD Car Insurance up their premiums by 10% to the laid off ppl? Why does Your Independant grocer increase water bottles by over a dollar? Slowly, the business sector have been using employeess from other countries in other countries.Need to bring the jobs back here..much much less employment opportunities.No one sees this. Cant fix the problem unless you know what the problem is. Bring the jobs back to Canada..but we are too expensive.
The Other Lowell in BC
said
Tom in Calgary
said
In the next election, when 20-30 western separatists are elected, just like the reformers were, will we be invited into the socialists coalition too?
Chris in Kingston
said
Doug
said
dwayne-ottawa
said
Julie
said
2. Back in October Harper said we would not be running on a defecit and we would not be going into recession. Fast forward to 2009, we are in a recession and we are running a defecit. Tsk! Tsk! Harper. You are not being honest with us Canadians.
3. When Harper came into power the 1rst time, he said we would not have another election. Boom!! We were back at the polls in Oct.2008. More lies from Harper.
I understand that the whole world is having financial problems, but I personally don't trust a man to make decisions for me if all he does is lie to me. If Harper can't work with the other party leaders and tell us the truth, then he needs to step down. This is CANADA. Not Harper Country. Maybe he should step down and go have a nice cup of coffee from Tim Hortons with Bush his buddy and let a better PM run our wonderful country and get us out of this mess that Harper created. Ha Ha!!
James
said
As a fellow SK Taxpayer, I didn't elect Harper. Does that mean my vote is worthless? Does that mean he doesn't have to at least try and represent my interests as well? I always thought that the leader was supposed to lead for the whole country, not just those that voted for him or her.
Harper lied to SK about our resource revenue, and people out here still voted for him. He lied about the state of economy during the election, about how we all had nothing to worry about, and people will still vote for him next time. He lied about the depth of the deficit, and still people support him.
I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.
Geoff
said
THe second last thing this country needs is another election. The last thing this country needs at a crisis time like this is a weak and in effective government. The opposition got 90% of what it asked for but still partisan politics is their only interest.
Mr. Harpers arrogance pales to that shown by Mr. Layton.
Mykel Smith, Toronto
said
What does this Budget do for those who are already unemployed and cannot find work but are not from the manufacturing industries.
The poll results are they taken from people who are employed with some security or are they taken for people who are living the everyday reality.
David Winter-London Ontario
said
air w
said
Duncan
said
I never in a million years would imagine a budget tabled, that would be the envy of any leftist government, come out of the conservative government, and the most left party still chooses to stay in bed with sepratists! I hope people of Canada see Jack Laytons NDP for what they are, greedy sell outs! Good job Mr. Ignatieff for choosing what is right for Canada, and not what is right for the Liberals.
PaulB
said
Enough of trying to buy my vote please! It doesn't work.
Please also, enough of the perpetual election campaign! The ceaseless attack adds (no election pending) and the negative campaign adds (election in progress) insult the intelligence of the average Canadian.
Please put all of that energy (and money) into developing some realistic vision for a prosperous future!
Perhaps then, you will see voters turn out and support the party of their choice instead of apathetically staying at home on election day.
Chris in Ontariariari-Oh!
said
M in Alberta
said
Kevin in T.O.
said
Conservatives = Alberta Party
said
Well what about the Conservatives? It's no coincidence that the budget has its highest approval rating in Alberta! Whether you call them the Alliance, the Conservatives or even the Alberta Party, intelligent people can see that Mr. Harper's party doesn't care for the whole of Canada any more than Mr. Duceppe does.
Diane from London
said
If they are dumb enough to go for coalition I just want them to know that they will never get my vote again. Since when does the big loser,Jack Layton, get to sit at the top table. He was never elected.
I hope common sense will prevail. We are as sick of these antics as we are of winter.
To: Mykel Smith, Toronto
said
If the Government would consulted the public on everything they do, they would do nothing but consulting.
I suggest you try to get retrain in another field and get back to work to take advantage of this budget.
You can't be sitting home and yet complain about the budget, be part of the sotution not the problem.
james gta
said
DRH
said
CM Montreal
said
BTW, none of you voted for Harper, although you may have voted for the Conservative Party. We don't vote for the Prime Minister in Canada. In addition, the majority of Canadians did not vote Conservative, Mr. Harper and his party represent a minority view, as much as many of you seem to think otherwise. Even political parties are merely a convention. Perhaps before slamming the current situation, a civics lesson is in order?
perry
said
Roger T
said
And besides, attaching a deadline to the incentives and also having to wait for the rebate is nothing but further postoning the process.
Until than RECESSION it is!
gord
said
Connie
said
Sandy
said
Madame Predicto
said
The stimulus package will act like a lead balloon tied to the economy.
Canadians will be furious.
Iggy will put some political spin on the stimulus package's failure and blame the Conservatives for mismanaging the spending.
Liberal support will grow.
Iggy will find a way to trigger an election before two years have even passed.
He will be PM.
CC
said
Iggy has no choice but to support this budget. His "coy" way is simply him trying to save face. All I see is another arogant Liberal leader with an academic past.
As for someone saying that the Conservatives are an "Alberta" Party. Give me a break ok. Half of the seats in Ontario are Conservative, almost all of the 4 western provinces are Conservative, and they made gains in PEI, NB, and NS. If Gilles Duceppe and his band of merry seraratists were not part of the picture, the Conservatives would have a massive majority. Wake up.
DC in AB
said
AW essex
said
G
said
Cassiopeia
said
marlowe blue
said
Frank from Maple ridge
said
G. Gravelle, Ottawa, Ontario
said
D/Vancouver
said
Candace
said
Politicians playing politics and not thinking collectively, about what's best for the hardworking Canadian.
Power hungry opposition leaders (NDP), political posturing (LIB), self centered seperatist (BLOC), and a manipulative budget (CONS. )There's nothing in this budget SINCERELEY directed in the best interests of the hardworking Canadian trying to survive a global economic reccesion.
Shame Shame Shame on ALL of them.
An shame on us Canadians for allowing such a flawed political process. We should all band together to do something about reducing the amount of political parties allowed to participate in Canadian politics.
Red X
said
Flahery 2 months ago project five years of surplus. NOW he is budgeting five years of deficits at $85 billion and calling it temporary?! That means the Debt will increase by that same amount plus interest...whatever happened to the $64 billion they leaked last week to the compliant media.
Matt
said
I see the extentions to EI, and home reno credit as being a real benefit to ordinary Canadians. It should give a small boost to feelings of financial security, and encourage those with some money to spend it. Personally I'm going to bump up my bathroom renovation from "sometime in the next 2 years" to sometime in the next few months.
Lorne
said
I am not a fan of Harper and the Conservatives and as a matter of fact, not a fan of any of the political parties at this point in time.
We have an economic crisis, are in a recession and in all probability, an upcoming depression.
Economists don't have an idea on what to do to correct the problem, as it is worldwide.
I'm afraid of the large deficit that is looming and hopefully, it will assist in getting our economy on track.
Although, I doubt it.
An election will do no good at this time, as we would be back to square one and starting all over again.
The fact that parliament was suspended for more than a month did no good in finding a solution.
Let's give this budget a shot, monitor the progress on a quarterly basis and see if progress is made.
We don't want to be like the USA, where they don't have any idea where the monies from the stimulus package has gone.
We have to see this crisis through as Canadians and forget about partisan politics.
Jeb
said
Iggy's move may be strategic but at least he isn't as grossly out of touch as these other two.
If you were to ask me, none of these goofs deserve their jobs, including Stephen Harper. It is time they got to work, instead of all acting like spoiled children.
Randy
said
Kim Butler
said
Making less then 43K but more then 41K
said
This budget is a joke to any one making 41K - 77K.
There were no tax cuts for the true middle class earners..nothing yet again.
If you earn 40k then good for you, you got a 7% tax cut...it you earn more then 77k but less then 82K ..you got the lion's share of the break.
As for the rest of us struggling to support our families amidst the rising cost of food utilities and insurances...well, we got shafted yet again. The true middle class will always pay, pay and then pay again...only in Canada can the rich get richer and the "poor" get the tax breaks while the rest of us suffer.
This government lead us to believe there would be a break for us...ya ok our only break will come in our backs trying to support all of Canada.
Perhaps those of us earning 41k - 77k...should start a tax revolt to let the govnerment know that we are tired of watching our hard earned dollars being spent by the lower and upper class..cause I sure can't afford to go to dinner and a movie.
I have already e-mailed the man and told him how I feel and that he has again missed the mark!!! He has also been told that when it comes time to pay this back..I am NOT paying more taxes cause he sure as hell did nothing for me!
Alex (Toronto)
said
With many Liberal ideas in the budget, the Liberals are correct to support the budget for now. If the government continues its new willingness to compromise, it could last for a long time, but if it goes back to its practice of attack ads and partisan confrontation, the Liberals are likely to bring down the government at a future date.
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
ASIDE: If you want to have a productive discussion, consider the abysmal failure of our multi-party, multi-interest, multi-ideology parliamentary system that resulted in a crazy Coalition and this shot-gun budget that brilliantly pleases no one.
Angered in Ottawa
said
Even when not elected the Liberals find a way to fleece the tax payers.
Reccession is a part of a normal economic cycle and the depth is created by the height of the boom. Be prepared for a deep recession and now the wad is shot and those that really will need help 3 years down the road will get nothing.
Jay, Ottawa
said
(1) As you mentioned, the fixed election date
(2) We will never go into a deficit
I've been trying to forget about Harper lately so I don't care to try and come up with others. . .
Brian Hauck
said
Nick
said
I am so tired of publicity shots. Yesterday Harper and his crew with their 'sleeves rolled up' in his office, and now this? We aren't fools.
SmalltownNB
said
Cathy Montreal..
said
Alanna, Saskatchewan
said
Glen
said
I will continue to support the conservative.
Concerned Canadian
said
Or one.
Isn't that what the Germans tried in 1939 - meet a crisis by ending democratic debate and control by the people? The fact is that our Parliamentary system worked very well.
A minority government tried to sneak a disastrous budget through the house after an election, hoping that the other parties would not have the courage to go to the polls again.
If Mr. Harper had had his way, he would have effectively ended funding for the opposition parties, and reduced Canada to a one-party state. And his failure to address the financial crisis would have left millions of Canadians vulnerable.
But because Mr. Harper (along with many regular Canadians) doesn't appear to understand how the British Parliamentary system works, he was caught off guard by the coalition.
By threatening to take over the government (a completely legal move, not a "coup" as the Conservatives would have you believe) the coalition forced Mr. Harper to end his attack on democracy and to table a fairly reasonable budget. He has also been forced to effectively end Conservative ideology, behaving now like a Trudeau- era Liberal.
So our multiparty system has weathered this storm, and demonstrated once again that although democracy is an awful system, it is still superior to all the others.
Don't give up on democracy folks.
This time it saved your butts.
Hey, wake up
said
Jacob from Edmonton
said
Harper was backed into a corner at gunpoint, and now that he's thrown his hands in the air and given "the House" what it apparently wanted (TONS of spending) the leftists aren't happy.
I can't believe I actually read a post saying we should not spend on infrastructure, and that we should pour billions into manufacturing.
If we had elected an NDP government, I'm sure that's what Jack would have done... give lots of projects to your favorite unions. Infrastructure is something that WILL have to be built out at some point. You can either do it now, when costs have relatively come down (see labour, materials) or you can fund these projects at the peak of the market and get your head handed to you in costs. Manufacturing is a PRIVATE business which should be treated as such. Why should we hand over cash to GM, Ford, or even Magna? why not any other private company? heck, if you give me a few billion, I might just start manufacturing some widgets too.
Also, there was an inaccurate comment earlier about giving billions to the banks before the election. What the government did was buy mortgage assets from the banks, which gave banks money they could use to lend. The government gets to HOLD the mortgages, most of which will mature - and the government will actually make money since its cost of borrowing is lower than that of either the banks, or the borrowers who bought homes.
Josh from Dawson Creek BC
said
My faith in Canadian democracy has been reaffirmed today!
Jim-Surrey
said
Nancy
said
bill Nill
said
JF Kelly
said
This economic recession was not caused by the government but rather the greed of lending institutions and the general populous living beyond their financial means. It’s interesting to see that people who ran themselves into debt now want to criticize the government for doing the same.
The Tories are not the cause they are the solution.
mm from onterrible
said
As for the other opposition stating their lack of support for the budget without seeing it, it is fairly obvious that they do not actually have the interest of Canadians at heart.
Trent
said
Jock Leith from Elliot Lake, Ontario
said
david
said
Tyler (Ottawa)
said
Personally, I cannot support something I did not vote for. If the three opposition parites want to take power, I think they should form a new party that exists as a single entitty on the ballot, then we Canadians get to choose without the spectre of vote-splitting over us. Maybe even the Green party will want in on the coalition...it seems to me they did get quite a few votes!
I'm in no hurry to return to the polls. Unlike many of my fellow Canadians, I did bother to show up and cast a ballot and will do so again because it is my right and my duty...not because I want to.
At the end of the day, we need someone to lead us but all I as is that we at least get to choose. We voted for Liberals, NDP, and Bloc MP's, but at no time was there a choice called "Coalition"
Chip
said
My understanding is that economical data is compiled by the government on a quarterly basis (used to be monthly but was altered by our previous gov't costs cuts).
The reason all the parties were mistaken at the time of the election was due to the untimely previous quarterly economical results… and the unprecedented collapse of the global economy.
Some people call it lies, others call it the best information they had at that time to make a decision.
Blair Gallagher
said
Joe
said
To Prime minister Harper, NO MORE CONCESSIONS. Canada should come first.
Johnny
said
Colleen Bijl
said
Don Wells
said
Michael
said
Ignatieff has no choice but to agree with this budget. It is a reasonable budget and all Ignatieff can do is bash the Tories for proroging Parliament after Jacks attempted hijack of government.
Steve
said
Brian
said
Its about time the middle class got a break. Every time its the middle class that gets the shaft, for once we get a break and everyone whines and cries like a bunch of babies.
I work hard for my money and make no apologizes for making $60,000+/year. I deserve to get all the breaks the people riding welfare and such receive. After all, I've been carrying them on my back for the last 10 years.
Doug BC
said
Nice going coalition enthusiasts.Your desire to kick Harper out is showing some defects.Your theory that a coalition would better represent the views of Canadians forgot to take into account that MP's are "whipped".And,none more than the NDP,who chose to vote against the budget even before it was written.
You wonder why so many people don't vote at all? I suggest you look at the system.Not the people.They do what they have to do to survive.After all,you can do nothing if you don't hold power.
We have to change our system if we want better outcomes.Until we do,no matter who is PM,we can only expect more game playing by people hungry for power.
There are good ideas in both Liberal and Conservative camps.If the system worked better,the voters would have the benefit of both,rather than just those of the party in office.
Rivalry aside,we might call it "cooperation".
Four year elections,fewer party whips,and either fixing or burning down the Senate would be major improvements.
Do not be so smug as to think a united Canada is a certainty.In fact,if we continue down this path,it seems most unlikely.By reading these posts every day it is clear that average Canadians are "spinning" just as much as the parties we elect.
How sad is that?
CARY
said
Beancounter
said
...this will then give reason to topple the Conservatives, who will only get voted back into power with another minority. Isn't it time we remove the NDP and the BLOC from our national party system?
We will never have our "Obama" with so many parties at the federal level.
Concerned Canadian
said
like many Canadians, you don't seem to understand how the Parliamentary system works. You state that "Ignatieff needs to remember that neither he nor his party were elected to govern". This is true, but then neither were Mr. Harper and the Conservatives elected to govern.
Let's try this one more time. We do not elect parties here in Canada. We elect individual MP's who then form a government, usually along party lines.
But unless a party has elected a majority of MP's, the best they can do is to ask the Governor General if they can try to govern with a minority. This is usually granted, and the minority governs as long as it retains the confidence of the House.
If they fail a vote on a confidence motion (including budget bills) then they lose the right to form the government, and any other group (coalition) of members from any party(ies) can then approach the GG and ask to form a government. We don't need another election.
This process is designed to avoid exactly the kind of move Mr. Harper was attempting - a minority government trying to rule like a majority by exhausting the electorate with the threat of continuous elections. This forces the minority government to take into account the desires of the majority of MP's- and thus the majority of Canadians.
Mr. Ignatieff has every right to defeat this bill (which he won't do) and to govern with the coalition- exactly the same right that Mr. Harper had in forming the minority government in the first place.
And in this case, if you read my previous post, you'll understand why this is a good idea. It has forced this government to acknowledge that there is a financial crisis, and to respond to it.
Karen/ Miramichi/ New Brunswick
said
Tell Iggy to go back to America!!!!!
said
Call an election Iggy, #$%$ or get off the pot!!!!!
Bye Thunder
said
Miles
said
I don't think it's all that important right now, but since you asked I'll throw out a couple of favoritess of mine.
Harper promised open government. Harper has practiced the most secretive government in Canadian history.
Harper vehemently stated there would be no deficit during the election. All the while knowing that the government was already in deficit to the tune of one billion by that time.
So we are up to 3 pretty good ones now. Electioneering, sure. They all do it, sure. But you have to be somewhat delusional to believe that Harper is some sort of shining knight of honesty. Any guy who puts that tight a clamp on his members is hiding a few things.
Glenn
said
Gerry From NL
said
GHW
said
Bob Bruce
said
“The proposed Federal Budget does nothing to protect the most vulnerable Canadians.”
Those 14 members of the rump NDP party that just had the coalition shot down.
Fortunately, Mr. Ignatieff made the right decision for Canada, and for the Liberal Party, keeping them more centrist, than left.
Brian in Toronto
said
That being said, the last thing we need now is an election.
Chris Cowan
said
Too bad he didn't. I'd have liked to see the end of the Liberals and NDP.
PrairieDog
said
Ignatieff wants a "report card"????? Who the hell does this man think he is. The arrogance is overwhelming. HE IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT! I hope that PRIME MINISTER Harper, says an resounding ..NO..to any more concessions. Let the coalition have it, or have an election...but no more blackmail!!!
Warren Kline
said
The liberals have a chance to take the reins and lead this country through the darkness into a new hope and they wont take it because it doesn't suit their own political agenda.
The people you seek to govern don't care about politics; we care about making enough money to live happy lives, to be able to provide food and shelter for our children. I don't write this with anger in my voice but with tears in my eyes for feeling so forgotten.
I have not lost my job and most likely will not. But there are families all over Canada that will not know if they will have money to buy food for their children in the months to come, and what do these politicians do about that? Not enough.
We are in trouble, maybe desperate trouble, and we need a leader that will govern for the good of us all. We need a leader that can give us help and inspire hope. Apparently no one wants that job.
Douglas Speer
said
How can anyone criticize the Liberal request for periodic updates as to how their policies are working?
No one government should be allowed the freedom to do what they want and to be able to hide behind walls of lawyers and traditional governmental subterfuge.
Doug in Toronto
Steve in Montreal (Canada)
said
Pass the budget and use the monies saved by NOT having another election to pay down the upcoming deficit.
Enough Politics...Govern the Country..dang it !
said
Norm Ontario
said
B2900
said
Paul Chilliwack
said
That is what The Liberals are about. These clowns will always put road blocks up as long as they are not in power.
Sounds like a Chretien tactic. The liberals have changed their face but not their tactics, dirty lying politics.
We should have an election and deal with these clowns, NDP BLOC LIBERALS, give the Conservatives a majority.
I am so tired of these crying parties, let's get ride of em.
Chilliwack
Kevin in Vancouver
said
Don't forget the number of companies and Canadian workers that will benefit from the work created, this will benefit you because they will pay taxes and spend money on living which will impact your community.
Also Niel times like these require everyone to cut back on luxuries so why not eat the cat.
Dave from Toronto
said
Russ in Halifax
said
Mark
said
Jim in Ontario
said
Dan
said
kathy ottawa
said
France euro 26 billion
Germany euro 50 billion
European union euro 200 billion
China 580 billion
USA 825 billion
Do people actuallythink Cnada should sit back and do nothing
Pete From TO
said
Abdula
said
"Round 1 - and Ignatieff goes to the corner, it looks like...Michael Ignatieff throws in the towel"
Given that this budget is a huge concession to Liberals and even NDP, I think the one on the mat is Stephen Harper. You have to bet that Harper is choking on some of the items in this budget, to see otherwise would be political and fiscal myopia.
The oposition parties called for help for the vunerable and to some degree this is what was delivered.
M M B Ont
said
A Coalition is almost extinct now because Layton is going to come down hard on Iggy because of the Liberals supporting the budget and this only proves that the stooges will never get along now or in a Coalition... haha. What a Circus with these clowns !! Only in Canada eh !!!!!!!!!
Ryan
said
THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE
said
Ray. in Ab
said
I would to know if you have a job... Im so curious if it involves numbers. If your beeing serious, the amount would be like 25 trillion. not 84 billion. wow is all i can say.
Steve in PEI
said
I'm not sure if these large deficits are a good idea, but clearly it is what we're going to do, for now, and the budget contains no blatant, childish provocation like the last effort from Harper. It is right for the Liberals to support it, but to demand some form of accountability to the opposition, given the government's past track record of autocratic secrecy.
It seems like some of the Conservatives on here wish we lived in a Chinese-style, authoritarian one-party state... while their admiration for modern Communism is revealing, thankfully we live in a multi-party democracy, where the government is accountable to Parliament, and on top of that we elected a minority government. This type of give and take is exactly how the system should work.
Anthony
said
as they call it to the proposed budget, was a reasonable way out for the liberals to avoid
and get rid of previously announced coalition by his predecessor, with those two other losers.
It is obvious he is aware that many in the liberal party were against such "marriage",
just as many Canadians were against changes to marriage law as such, under another
liberal Prime Minister, whose reign was, as shown, fortunately short lived before more damage was done !
The fact is that none of these men knew 6 - 8 months ago, with all the help of "experts" they have
to ther disposition and which are well paid, what was to unleash, courtesy our friends to the south.
None of them! Yet today they all are great experts in economics. After the fact !
"They will have to do (the government) what we suggest and want from them", said liberal leader
or WE will change the government.. Mr. Ignatieff, we, the people change the governments.
And there is no assurence that your party will be forming one during the next election.
And now, let's forget all this unnecessary nonsence and run the country as it should be
run when of course it has people in power with reasonably well developed cerebral cortexes !
Candace
said
Actually, I don't think you understand democracy. I'm specifically referring to the Bloc, and I apologize for not specifying that in my earlier post. We resulted in a minority because the Bloc - a seperatist party - was allowed to participate in our democracy, eventhough they don't take all of Canada into consideration when creating their platform. At least the NDP, as goofy as they are, include ALL Canadians.
Anyhow, say what you will. I still maintain Canada is FLAWED in politics. 84 Billion in debt only because Harper had his back up against a wall.
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
Congratulations.
You're among the elite MINORITY of Canadians who stood proud of our multi-party, multi-interest, multi-ideology parliamentary system as an unabashed separtist, raging socialist, and bumbling liberal USED it for selfish political gain (and not the best interests of Canadians).
Indeed, your amusing reference to Trudeau indicates the disingenuous extent of your liberal bias on this issue.
This "Hail Mary" budget was born out of pure politics and mediocrity. It's unfocused and wasteful. It's the result of undue compromise and the tail wagging the dog. It's a lazy, unpointed effort to shut up an Opposition leader without electoral credibility. It's phony.
The brand of democracy practiced on Parliament Hill didn't save our butts. It spanked them; hard. (Maybe you like that?)
P.S. Perhaps, my friend, you should change your handle to "Unconcerned Canadian."
Ross-Burlington
said
Lead-follow or get out of the way. Quit trying to please the 3 Amigos just to stay in office.If we have an election you will have a majority and you won't have to put up with all their crying.
Glen
said
When we get a majority government trust me you will see a big difference.
Debra Valevicius
said
Harper wants to treat the politicians the same as the Canadian people. The non-confidence vote only came about because (the pre-budget was fair) the opositions pockets would not be full. Who says you can topple a government because they (the coalition) don't get a payraise.
Ignatieff would be a reckless dictator like Martin not Harper, and he (Ignatieff) doesn't care about the good of the country, he just wants to be Prime Minister. He is an egotist and bully for him he'd like to hold the Government at bay so that they answer to him. Hey guys, he's lived in the United States for over 30 years! Got a crash course in French. What does he know and how much experience does he have? He obviously loves the limelight and how does he think he could handle this Global economic problem? The Liberals and/or the coalition parties do not have a plan at all!!!
Dayton
said
Perry Crann
said
Bill
said
To Niel in NL.wrote:
"...Niel times like these require everyone to cut back on luxuries so why not eat the cat. "
As Niel was complaining that times were hard and he could barely feed the Cat I suspect the undernurished beast from an economical position would not be worth eating.
Ron
said
Pete
said
Chris
said
I've read your comments and I must say, you are right out of 'er!!!
Listen, the more parties that sit in parliament, the more choices people have...TRUE!!!
The more parties that sit in parliament, the less confidence people have...TRUE!!!
If only TWO parties sit in parliament, then people will be more confident and have better understanding of policies instead of having their minds twisted and confused by so many!!!
2 PARTY SYSTEM OF PARLIAMENT IS WHAT IS NEEDED!!!
Also, my friend, you have said many partisan comments against the Conservatives. If you truly believe that you know how government works, then you should remain impartial and unbiased with your comments.
60schick
said
James
said
Thank, Sandy, for admitting Harper corrupt, weak
said
Now you know:
Harper is thinking only of protecting his job. His personal ambition is more important to him than helping Canadians.
Walter
said
Sarcasm
said
Tom Hawley
said
Mr.Harper could have proposed a different budget.He has to bear the responsibility of the budget.Good or bad!
Was he afraid to have it voted down?Surely he is not scared to go back to the electorate.
Oh he can't.Foolish me, I forgot about the fixed election date.
Funny how this works.If it were the Liberals who had the authority to put this exact budget forward people such as yourself would be crying foul.
Cassidy Kanata
said
Torontonian
said
Tired SK Taxpayer, please freshen up on your civics knowledge. In Canada, we do not elect governments (the Conservatives lied to Canadians about that). Directly electing a government, which you are claiming, requires direct elections, which we do not have. We can only elect a member of parliament in our riding to go to Ottawa and then (usually) the party with the most seats becomes the government. So please know your facts before you make those false claims.
dave
said
about time they started acting like adults, instead of children.... we are paying these people aren't we???
Ed Ontario
said
Anne M
said
Ken
said
Give me a break...the LIBERALS were NOT elected to run our Country so stay home!!!!
Shan
said
James
said
Harper's budget already out of touch with reality.
said
The new global outlook, released Wednesday, sees the world falling much deeper into recession than previous forecasts, but also projects a more feeble recovery than either the Bank of Canada or the budget assumes.
Bill from Scarborough
said
David Essner
said
Robert Crevier
said
George
said
Harper's Conservatives have joined the COALITION.
said
Regina
said
Not so to the NDP - Jack is it???? No positive comments nor did we expect negative 'Jack' to have any.
Hopefully Canada can get though the next couple of years with 'common sense thinking'.
Al
said
Harper stimulates more government debt.
said
GJay
said
values. Don't walk to "The Iggy
Shuffle" as he tries to become king.
Conservative Joe
said
We have a great government now run by the liberals, if harper tries anything the libs don't like he's out of there!
Mary in Calgary
said
Linda in Vancouver
said
If they don't like debt,they should have supported,not opposed Harper as he paid down debt.Liberals wanted more spending,and less debt reduction.That reduction of our debt will help us weather the storm better than most nations.Just a few more years at the rate we were going would have had us sitting pretty.To bad.But Canada has no impact on the global economy,and we are an exporting nation.
The leaders of ALL parties have disappointed me.Harper because he agreed to appease the left wingers,"Iggy" becaue he got into bed with the BLOC and the NDP,and has failed to provide a policy book we could actually vote for,and the NDP who said they would vote against the budget even before it was written.
If you are passionate about real debate about real issues,don't look for those debates in Ottawa.
If all you care about is your favourite political party,the games are just beginning.You should have a good time.You'll either be getting something free form the left,or seeing a return to lower debt and lower taxes from the right.
Two points.You can not get both because there is no such thing as free.The free programs are paid for by another Canadian who's family is poorer now.And remember,free services are as addicitve as tobacco.You first like them,then,when you get the tax bill,you see you need them.By the time you realize that lower taxes would let you pay for your own day care,you're to far in debt to break the "habit" the socialists got you hooked on.
Jack - Barrie
said
I know who I'm choosing.
Robert
said
Scandal after Scandal, year after painful year. I wonder and marvel how easily the masses are drawn into shallow words; meaningless and outright fabrications, yet said with the utmost sincerity. I see a liberal party so afraid of what a Harper Conservative party can actually accomplish, they will do, and say anything out of sub defuse to destroy anything productive. Get power back at all costs, so they can continue to arrogantly pad there own pockets along with their Quebec bedfellows. As far as I can see the Michael and his minions need to step back and let government function with an eye for a result productive for Canadians, not themselves. Especially in the economic times we face currently. They are costing our country dearly at our hour of need.
Ron
said
To Tom in Calgary
I have lived all over Canada and there are whiners and malcontents everywhere including the West. Have you ever even been further east than the Alberta border. People in the east are hard working and respectable people. I have never collected "pogey" in my life but hope it is available should I or you ever need it. People like you should take the time to understand the "big picture" and not just your small self centred view of the world.
Richard
said
Divided we fall
Buddywhat'shisnameandtheotherfellow
said
It appears some of you are too young to remember the sad fact that the Liberals and NDP wrote the book on lies. It's hilarious if not maddening to read about conservative lies in the face of what Liberal and NDP governments have done. Amazingly, very few if any of them ended up in jail. But enough on that.
This budget is a little weaker than I'd like. I'd like to see a real vision in it; maybe a real plan. I suppose that's not the conservative way. To do something truly national takes a national sense of pride rather than a free-market let 'em fly sort of wrecklessness.
My wife and I make good money are are not in danger of losing our livelihood but we and other relatives are already taking in relatives who have been displaced by this mess.
It's going to be a long rough ride. Time for all parties to realise the seriousness and work together.
Danny Williams will drag his province down before he's done yapping. Danny, the pot is empty. It was bound to happen.
Andrew
said
Rick in Halifax
said
Do you want a coalition Gov't? No!
Is this budget likely to turn the economy around? No!
We have no where to go in the short term, let's try to respond, as best we can, and pray for Obama to succeed in turning the U.S.. economy around.
Ignatieff did the responsible thing by demanding to keep an eye on the the effectiviness of the budget's implimentation. Harper and Flaherty, does anyone believe these characters anymore. Flaherty indicated in his ecomonic statement, only two months ago, that the federal government would run a surplus this year. Now its an $85 billion deficit over the next four to five years. Do you believe those numbers? No! Layton can take his high principles, for what they really are, a desperate attempt, at any cost, to get into office, to prove some governmental experience for some future reference point. How is the country's interest served by merely allowing Mr Layton, and a couple of his cohorts, on the job experience! Mr. Layton stop the non-sense, people and communities are hurting. The real issue is Canadian jobs not some co-op mentoring/intern program for the Laytonites....
Gail (Hamilton)
said
js Toronto
said
Harper plays dirty and Iggy had passed up his best opportunity for a knockout punch. Iggy could have been PM by Friday and run this country like he had a majority for the next 18 months. This would have been good for Canada. Even if he tabled the same bailout budget in 3 weeks with Ralph Goodale in charge, Canada would be a better place for it. Now, the coalition will die a slow death. The chances of the Liberals getting a majority are zero and the chances of the running an election and winning a minority are slim at best.
Look for Harper to get a bounce off this and start acting like he actually has a majority mandate from the people.
Sad really. The Liberals can't do what it takes to beat Harper at his own game.
Al from Ontario
said
Peter in Edmonton
said
The International Monetary Fund is darkening "
This sounds convincing unless you look at the track record of the IMF. Go ahead: wiki it. The IMF has never been correct on a prediction once ....not once...ever. The IMF typically supports any dictator who plays nice with the corporations who support it. The IMF is not a think tank, it is not a human rights organization, it isn't even a group of economists. They were particularily on the ball when they predicted in 1994 that Zimbabwe and Congo would become Africa's economical power houses by the year 2000. lol.
Concerned Canadian
said
Conservative supporters, unable to defend Mr. Harper against the actual charges against him, are defending him on an accusation no one actually made.
Of course if the Liberals had been in power we would have been faced with the same financial crisis. But the criticism is that Mr. Harper's Conservatives tried to pretend that it wasn't actually happening.
After promising the Canadian electorate that there would be no deficit budget because Canada was in fine shape, Mr. Harper was faced with the reality of the meltdown caused by the Republican Congress deregulating the American financial institutions.
Now in truth, many people predicted this crisis. But fair enough, if Mr. Harper didn't see it coming, he didn't. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
The problem, though, is why he chose to table a budget, after the crisis had hit, that made no provisions for average Canadians?
Furthermore, because his government had spent the surplus, we had no reserves of cash, and are now forced into deficit spending.
So Conservative posters:
1. Stop arguing that the coalition is illegal. It isn't and you know it (or ought to).
2. Stop defending Mr. Harper against a charge no one made.
3. Tell us why he failed to respond to the crisis in his initial budget.
4. Tel us why the coalition was wrong to force him to accept reality.
5. Show us how this new budget is worse than the first one.
or
5. Accept that the legal coalition forced an intransigent government into doing the right thing.
Mal
said
Jim Stuart - Winnipeg
said
The Liberal Party has failed yet again to stand up and be counted. It has yet again decided Canadians come second to political expediency. Ignatief is so contradictory in his support of this budget he has lost my support and my vote.
Time to look for a real leader with ethics, values and a backbone. Maybe the Liberal Party will get it right with the next leader. To the Liberal Caucus: get out the knives - they are not yet dull. To not replace Ignatief now keeps Harper in charge and you in the political wilderness looking for direction. How sad.
CJ (Vancouver)
said
There is no way Iggy will vote this 2009 Budget down because this Budget sounds and looks more like a Liberal Budget than a Tory Budget. I'm beginning to think that the only way the Tories stay in power is to appease or even prostitute themselves to the right wing of the Liberal Party and the Province of Ontario and that is how the Prime Minister will have to govern in this Minority Government.
However, to those who dislike this Multi Party system we have, unfortunately, it looks as if it will be in place for many more years to come as the Bloc is entrenched in Quebec, Danny Williams hates his Federal Tory cousins, Eastern Canada and the highly populated cities are a bastion of Liberal supporters, the West only trust the NDP and the Tories and by reading many of the comments here it sounds like a buffet of NDP, Tory and Liberal supporters.
So unless a major catastrophe
strikes Ottawa nothing will change.
Don from Ottawa
said
Iggy is going to lead the Liberals straight to the bottom of the barrel, thus completing their post-Chretien fall from grace and - hopefully for all sides - giving rise to an effective two-party political system.
Tim in Ontario
said
Now they want us to believe they have found all the answers and indeed have a five year look ahead - were was this crystal ball before
$85 Billion - give me a break
Don't trust these guys - thay are playing pure politics with our future
we deserve better
Gerald from Ottawa
said
Not too long ago, PM Harper gave away the 12b/year surplus to the provinces. While that was bad for the federal debt, it was good for the provinces. It didn't account for a rainy day, but seemed like a good idea at the time.
I think a small gas tax to fund green research would be acceptable in the current economy, and for a small cost per person, a great national program could be initiated.
Tono
said
If we were to do that, we would have zero problems with these insane Coalitions, we would have no unpopular parties trying to gain power, there would be no more of this constantly trying to take over the government from those who were elected, and there might actually be some respect shown to the head of government.
Canuck in Bellingham WA
said
He really didn't have much of a choice. What was annoying was all of the posturing suggesting that he was going to do a careful brilliant analysis and make an informed thoughtful decision.
On the other side of the coin, Harper is being far more careful after getting smacked around in the fall for some minor stupid politcal game playing.
Let hope these kids learn to play nice with others.
Ray. in AB
said
owl
said
Arnie Swatz
said
Steve in winnipeg mb
said
We sure don't need this when the world is in trouble and too watching what these two morons or maybe three are doing to our democracy.
Dale in Kanata
said
is their collective memory really that short??
Jack Layton sounds like a bitter man...didn't get his way...
and for those in Quebec, please, stop letting the Bloc set your political agenda, it's what been seperating you from the rest of the country for the last 20 years..we're all in this together..
I believe this budget shows that Mr. Harper wants to work with all parties to provide the best situation for all Canadians...
as for the opposition leaders...stop yelping and get to work...we don't need political games right now
Peter in Edmonton
said
"1. Stop arguing that the coalition is illegal. It isn't and you know it (or ought to)."
And you ought to know --before you start accusing people of wanting to be American wannabies or that you're educated in the Parlaimentary system that an un-elected coaltion government (not elected AS a coalition) coming to power after a vote of non-confidence over a budget they've never seen has NEVER HAPPENED IN WORLD HISTORY. Not once. If you were such an expert you'd know that and you'd know why.
"3. Tell us why he failed to respond to the crisis in his initial budget."
What are you talking about? There WAS NO INITIAL BUDGET. None.
"4. Tel us why the coalition was wrong to force him to accept reality."
Harper was wisely waiting to see what happened in the US first. Don't act like you knew all along and Harper didn't. Back in December everyone knew it was turning bad, but no one knew *how* bad yet. It was a wise move to wait until after Obama got in to make the final ink.
"Now in truth, many people predicted this crisis."
No. EVERYONE predicted this crisis, the catch is everyone doing the predicting all admitted they really had no good idea how bad it would get.
Class dismissed for another Liberal.
Peter Burrell
said
Tim from Calgary
said
Kristin
said
iskewa
said
I guess the farce of canadian politics continues....what a country
David G. Gerrard, Waterloo, Ontario
said
That is a small price to pay to get the government up and running again and get the budget at least starting to work. We all won't get exactly what we want in the budget, but at least it is better than no budget and no movement.
I also have another idea that I have not seen before on these boards. Let there be a free vote on this budget rather than MPs having to follow party lines. Publish each MP's vote across the board so that we Canadians can see up close that our representatives in Ottawa are voting as their constituents want or are being hampered by all the fragmented Party Lines. It's very easy to say the other party is wrong so let them vote by their constituent's wishes.
Wonder what kind of a result that would bring, especially for the NDP and the Bloc.
Brian
said
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
Andrea
said
This is another test if you ask me.
Peter in Ottawa
said
We needed an election, and we needed a majority outcome.
What we now have is an indecisive fractured gov't held hostage by a Liberal bandit.
Paul in Brantford
said
CALL AN ELECTION !!!!!!!!!!
From the East
said
You are absolutly right! Obviously we don't understand democracy... and here we thought it meant everyone had a say, not just those the agreed with us!
Michael in Kingston
said
Peter in Edmonton
said
This is the number 1 lie Liberals use when they've run out of things to say.
"He's an American-style politician....He'll make us like America....He's an Alberta seperatist".
Three points of truth:
1. Harper was raised in Ontario.
2. The Conservatives did not win two elections because Canada is more conservative. They won because the only intelligent voters out there - the moderates - were swayed by proven fiscal policy. You know that means NOT burning billions in waste programs or scandals.
3. People who argue "American style"-this or that knee jerkisms ironically spend way too much time preoccupied with American politics and are usually grotesquely lacking in knowledge of Canadian politics. Go back to your yankee forums and ply your spins and garbage there. You spend all your time arguing American politics, then that makes YOU and American wannabie, not us.
johan
said
Mo
said
Seems like Liberals are a lot more relaxed with the new leader and are making more progress. Dion wasn't a bad man either, but he wasn't a great leader and the media made him look stupid.
Blair Roberts
said
Kevin from Cambridge
said
I am glad we have a Conservative government in power.
Ontar-Ian, soon to be Quebec-Ian
said
I have two statements to make on that.
1 - Perhaps Canada would be better off without the West constantly claiming foul, and demanding equality, and then refusing equality when others ask. Lose Alberta!
2 - If Quebec separates, I am moving there (yes, I know some of you will be happy with that), they have leadership, they have ideals, and vision, and integrity! SOmething that is lacking in the rest of this once great nation. I stress the once!
For those of you begging for an Obama. Not going to happen in Canada, until we can develop a form of government in which the true leaders want to run the nation.
I expect that there are a number of great leaders in this country. You won't find any of them following a political path. Who would honestly want the job of PM??
Jim
said
Is there anyone out there that seriously thinks a multi-party political system works? I travel all over the world and trust me people think this coalition is just an absolute joke, which reflects Canada on a whole. It is embarrassing to me to think that an elected official from all regions of our country (except Quebec, no surprise) should be forced into this situation, minority government or not. The argument that the oposition parties hold more power/seats combined is true, but they have become special interest parties and do nothing but split votes and at the end of the day do not represent the entire country as does the Conservative party. Lets set aside all the politcial posturing and the let conservatives do the job we voted them in to do!
Charlie
said
Steve the Pundit
said
Need I remind the Liberal leader (and pardon the mixed metaphor) that the Liberals are still in the penalty box for the callous disregard with which they handled our finances when THEY were in charge (sponsorship scandal, gun registry, Human Resources boondoggle, pork barrel infrastructure projects, loans to golf courses in the Prime Minister's riding...)
Deficit slayers? A booming economy, huge tax revenue growth (thank you Mr. Mulroney and your GST), massive cuts to defense, health and provincial transfers, etc. are what did it.
I almost wish they didn't support the budget, so we could have an election and finally kick Ignatieff and his holier-than-thou crew to the curb once and for all.
AJ
said
All of you would cry bloody murder if Iggy took down the gov't and you are crying bloody murder that he didn't.
Anyway forget that it is all political posturing anyway.
The budget sucks!!!!!!!!
Provinces and municipalities are cash strapped. And, for them to get any infrastructure money they need to pony up cash (that they don't have as well).
If municipalites can't fork over cash: no fed cash
If municipalities do: Property tax hike.
You pay for that bridge twice!
If provinces don't fork over cash: no fed money
If provinces do:
provincial deficit.
Pay for it again twice.
If all three levels of government are involved: We pay for it three times.
WHICH ALSO MEANS THREE TIMES THE INTEREST!!!!
The conservatives have played the ultimate smoke and mirrors game.
Cash is tight across the board, placing conditions like this on federal BAILOUT money puts the conservatives in a position to act as if they are really doing something but the reality is that most of that money will not get spent because no-one can match it.
What is he doing for access to health care, due to more stress related illnesses.
What is he doing for EI benefits. You have to go broke, or in major debt before you get anything. Even at that you get benefits that is lower than being on welfare (in some parts). Whole communities are in trouble, workers only get 55% of their salary up to a max of $413/wk. That should change for the short term. My wife in on mat-leave without top up (therfore EI) and if I lose my job - and don't find one in 3months - I would need EI.
If that is the case I will lose my house, my car and all of my equity, Thanks.
The Source
said
In these tough times although a peace mission Canada could save some money in these deficits years by pulling out of middle east NOW!
Would hold companies accountable who get infrastructure contracts and have final bill not a penny more over what was quoted. Construction companies can be run by crooks and when they see gov't spending they tend to butter up final costs.
From the Southern Tip
said
I'm not sure though that all Liberals in the government feel the same and probably had some details they would like added.
I don't have any problem with him keeping the Conservatives accountable for implementation. As long as they don't roadblock any changes required to get Infrastructure monies flowing quickly.
I think they should temporarily change the one-third conribution by each level of government for a couple years. Perhaps 60-20-20 would get things going faster.
Rob
said
Wake up! ANYone who believes ANYthing that ANY politician of ANY party has to say on ANY topic or subject at ANY time must be half-witted or something.
It's all about lust for power, how to hold on to it, or how to obtain it.
Nothing appears in the media without an agenda, and everything is manipulated and twisted to serve the interests of those who have or who are seeking POWER- not the interests of the electorate.
Remember that and you'll have a lot less reason to play at being shocked and outraged by "_______" (<-insert party or politician name here).
Cheers
Dani - Alberta
said
The liberals seem to have forgotten that Canada is not in this alone, and that we are certainly not the only country considering drastic budget actions.
No, this is not a true conservative budget, as everyone is fond out pointing out, but we are in unique times that call for action, and our conservative government understands this.
I'd like to give them a chance. We certainly can't afford to let the liberals control the country.
Stacey Lu
said
Just pass the budget - its good for everyone. It encourages spending and giving back to Canadians so they can spend more.
Canadians don't want another election...
We're in hard economic times and I feel the budget is justification for just that.
Ben
said
Carolyn Cox in Cornwall
said
Bill
said
Roland in Newfoundland
said
Layton saw his last chance to become a minister go down the drain.
Frustrated in the East Coast
said
simon
said
We only had one last November!!!
Let Parliament work.
Let the majority of MPs form a government.
But let us not have a minority group wanting to act like they are the majority.
Jen
said
Rod in Saskatoon
said
My big question is... will a laid-off union auto worker come to Saskatoon to work for $18 an hour as a labourer or a little more for a skilled apprentice on the many infrastructure projects we have lined up to go...? Somehow I think there will still be a problem getting the labour work force we need to get these shovel-ready projects on the go.
Andy Kanata
said
James in Calgary
said
Doug in Carleton Place
said
The NDP has totally lost my respect now.
Harper is on shaky ground and now must perform or else.
If his plan works it will be great for Canada. If it does not then the Liberals will force him into an election later in the year when they have earned more respect.
The NDP is only thinking about power.
I am a Liberal, but I am also a Canadian, I just hope Harpers plan works and I think Ignatieff is doing the proper thing.
Abdula
said
Aside from the Budget mention this staement is false. The MAIN way a coalition is formed is when a no viable government can be formed as no party has the confidence of the people.
All elections return a winner but not always a majority, and then a coalition is formed AFTER an election.
Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey, Israel, New Zealand, Pakistan and India. Switzerland has been ruled by coalitions formmed after an election.
Mary in Calgary
said
Abdula
said
Which means that many Canadians missed the Economic and Fiscal Statement released on November 27, 2008.
This Statement as most people know was a mini budget designed to trigger a response from the other perties. It is just surprising that The conservativbe government was so naive that they missed the mark and did not expect the reaction they got.
Anyone that did not see this statement as a mini budget is as naive as the conservative government that created it.
Andy Kanata
said
Brad
said
If the budget is "flawed" then vote it down. Don't say it should have this or that, just vote it down and see what happens. Your party is not in power, so don't think you're going demand any conditions!
Say YES or NO.
Oliver Clothesoff
said
Cindy
said
If those of us who make less than 77k, but more than 41k are considered poor tell me why we are taxed at the same rate as some one who makes 82k
And if you think we all work in the manufacturing sector and that they are the lowly jobs of Canada...you better get a life!
Without the manufacturing sector buddy, you would not have the nice perks you have..like your 52" tv..your stereo..your car...etc.
Does your 150k a year sing to you?...does it take you from point a to point b?...I know it lets you watch it dosen't it?....You need to apologize to all in the manufacturing sector cause they cater to your butt...not you to them.
You make too muych money now you don't need a tax break..sit home and watch your money...
Brian
said
I personally don't recall any politician saying Mr. Harper caused the world financial crisis.....its the Liberal and NDP posters on sites such as this one that said it!!
Like it or not we were in decent shape 2 months ago (compared to other countries)....not even the Liberals and NDP campaigned on it being THIS bad!!
1.)I have never said the coalition was 'illegal', but then neither was Harper going to the GG to prorogue parliament (Liberal supporters made this claim on this site only a month ago and stated Harper gave them all a 2 month holiday, when in fact parliament was going to take their REGULAR Christmas break anyways)
2.)Liberal posters HAVE made such charges.
3.)The initial budget was based on the numbers at the time. Every country miscalculated the extent of this economic slow down.
4.)Liberals and NDP jumped into bed up with a party whose only goal is to take everything for themselves, after Dion said they would never align with the Bloc.
5.)Massive debt (and the so called surplus was because the Liberals stole $50+ billion from the EI fund - Supreme Court even says so)
6.)The legal coalition forced the government to take it too far and threatened to prevent the implementation of this plan by forcing an election (as most people believe the GG would never accept the coalition)
The Liberals and NDP played chicken again and lost again....they are now stuck in a huge rut. They got what 'they' wanted and have to argue against it anyways just to save face. Good luck running a campaign that you can't afford on that!!!
Concerned Canadian
said
Sorry, you still don't get it. Whether a coalition has ever before fought against a standing minority government over a budget is not the issue: the point I am making is that the government of Canada must survive a vote of confidence or fall. If it falls, then any other group of members can form a government with the approval of the GG. That's just a fact. Therefore the coalition is not illegal. Therefore your comments are irrelevant.
The proposed budget, although not read in Parliament, made no provision for the financial crisis. The threat of the coalition replacing the Conservatives forced them to actually consult with Canadians, and the result is a better budget. Therefore the coalition worked, didn't it? Or do you wish to argue that this budget is worse that the proposed one?
As for Harper "wisely waiting to see what happened in the U.S. first", if he'd passed the initial budget, then his hands would have been tied, wouldn't they? We would have been stuck with the proposed budget, with no recourse for surviving this crisis. How is that wise?
By the way, notice that the multiparty system has produced an economic stimulus package that will be voted on and passed within a few days.
Meanwhile, the U.S. with its two party system is still fighting it out in Congress, and it hasn't even reached the floor of the Senate. So much for the argument that the multiparty system doesn't work s well as the two party one.
For Professor Pye-chart: bit disappointed in ya bud. Your posts are usually fairly rational and insightful. Your attack on me was disrespectful, using insults and sarcasm rather than fact or logic. If you'd like to make a rational argument for a two-party system, I'd be pleased to respond.
Jay, Ottawa
said
Ignatieff wants a 'report card'????? Who the hell does this man think he is. The arrogance is overwhelming."
He seems to be under the impression that he is the leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.
Peter in Edmonton
said
"The MAIN way a coalition is formed is when a no viable government can be formed as no party has the confidence of the people."
I appreciate your response, however you are not talking about the same thing. I challenge anyone here to find ONE instance in the past 100 years of a coalition government that was *not elected AS a coalition government* due to a vote of non-confidence, over a budget they haven't seen. This scenario has never happened once. Initial (first) governments hardly count. Drastic WWII measures only prove the rule.
My point is that yes this is legal, but the RATIONAL/REASON for establishing a coalition government is the KEY to it's validity and it service to the people and the democracy.
If a minority government such as this one - only 10 seats short of a majority - can 'fall prey' to an opposition coalition drive using a non-confidence vote, over any excuse at all then this WILL be happening every time in the future for every minority government. One only needs to get the Bloc onside and statistically it should work most times.
You mentioned:"Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey, Israel, New Zealand, Pakistan and India."
German and Italian co. governments are voted in AS coalition governments. Not formed after the fact. As to the rest I will bring the following quote, it shows what I am talking about in terms of rational:"Although it is possible to have a powerful prime minister, as Britain has, or even a dominant party system, as Japan has, parliamentary systems are also sometimes unstable. Critics point to Israel, Italy, Canada, the French Fourth Republic, and Weimar Germany as examples of parliamentary systems where unstable coalitions, demanding minority parties, votes of no confidence, and threats of such votes, make or have made effective governance impossible."
Cheers
Earl Jones
said
Mary in Calgary
said
Canada Goose Whistler
said
Thank you Mr Harper for following the advice of our great leader Mr Ignatieff.
Wayne Burnside
said
KB in GTA
said
Reading all the Conservative comments about anyone who supports the Liberal party, smacks of an arrogance we haven't seen since - shall I say it - Mulroney! My god, the Conservatives have spent their way in order to be elected to a MINORITY government and during the budget process are trying to act as if they were elected to a MAJORITY. This is why Joe Clark failed, Kim Campbell failed and now Harper will fail. They should stow their attitude and work in conjuntion with the opposition parties and work on digging us out of the financial mess we're in.
Here endith my rant.
Peter in Edmonton
said
"Which means that many Canadians missed the Economic and Fiscal Statement released on November 27, 2008.
This Statement as most people know was a mini budget designed to trigger a response from the other perties. "
Yes, a response. A Parlay. A debate. This was happening. I was watching. Most weren't. Not a vote of non-confidence with the added threat of a new coalition wanted to replace the govt. As I said: if this can happen with a strong majority over any reason then it will likely happen to every minority government and and the entire non-confidence vote mechanism will become a sham.
When the Liberals next get a minority govt, just watch the bloc cozy up to the opposition to pull the same deal. Why not? Nothing to lose for them and everything to gain.
Joey Abrams (Montreal)
said
Nothing Harper or the conservatives did caused people to lose their jobs, it is happening all over the world, not just in Canada.
Ignatieff at least realizes this and is willing to work with the government to get out of this mess. Unlike Dion who was only worried about his personal agenda to be the prime minister. Jack Layton doesn't have a clue how to lead and proves it by campaigning by pointing out wrongs, he is a problem not a solution. And don't get me started on the separatists. If the opposition and the far left had their way our country would depend on the votes of Separatists.
Good on you Mr. Harper and Mr. Flaherty for going back to the drawing board and working with the government to better our country and not steal our tax dollars by getting paid to cry and whine why you are not in charge in the face of a coalition.
Coalition
said
And in countries like Malaysia they campaign as a coalition......they are called the National Front Coalition.
Peter in Edmonton
said
"Switzerland has been ruled by coalitions formmed after an election. "
Over a "mini" budget? No, it was WWII. That only proves my point. THanks
edd-medhat
said
If anybody puts anyone else on probation, it won't be any opposition party. It will be the people of Canada. What Iggy seems not to understand (what else would you expect from a foreigner?), is that he self appointed himself as his party's leader, he has not acquired any support from Canadian voters on anything, and that all politicians start without credibility and have to strive to earn it. Very few(including Iggy) are successful at this.
This is a loser strategy.
Brenda Ayres
said
The election held this passed fall showed Canadians wanted a minority government where by the parties would work together for betterment but they all appear to be far to thick to understand that.
No party will get a majority, there isn't one of them worth it and we pay the price.
Stop playing these lame games with each other and earn your salary, do what's best for the people you serve and stop your childish banter.
Peter in Edmonton
said
"The MAIN way a coalition is formed is when a no viable government can be formed as no party has the confidence of the people."
I appreciate your response, however you are not talking about the same thing. I challenge anyone here to find ONE instance in the past 100 years of a coalition government that was *not elected AS a coalition government* due to a vote of non-confidence, over a budget they haven't seen. This scenario has never happened once. Initial (first) governments hardly count. Drastic WWII measures only prove the rule.
My point is that yes this is legal, but the RATIONAL/REASON for establishing a coalition government is the KEY to it's validity and it service to the people and the democracy.
If a minority government such as this one - only 10 seats short of a majority - can 'fall prey' to an opposition coalition drive using a non-confidence vote, over any excuse at all then this WILL be happening every time in the future for every minority government. One only needs to get the Bloc onside and statistically it should work most times.
You mentioned:"Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Turkey, Israel, New Zealand, Pakistan and India."
German and Italian co. governments are voted in AS coalition governments. Not formed after the fact. As to the rest I will bring the following quote, it shows what I am talking about in terms of rational:"Although it is possible to have a powerful prime minister, as Britain has, or even a dominant party system, as Japan has, parliamentary systems are also sometimes unstable. Critics point to Israel, Italy, Canada, the French Fourth Republic, and Weimar Germany as examples of parliamentary systems where unstable coalitions, demanding minority parties, votes of no confidence, and threats of such votes, make or have made effective governance impossible."
Cheers
Diane M.
said
Brian in Edmonton
said
The Liberals should concentrate on getting their own books in order first....they have stolen from us for years and still are broke....looking for a hand out as usual.
Maybe Iggy should go back to the United Kingdom or the US since he didn't seem to care abut Canada from 1978 to 2005.
Cold in MB
said
Gabe
said
Ignatieff did not BLINDLY support this motion of confidence, which is something Dion always did.
Harper has campaigned on ACCOUNTABLE government. Ignatieff's conditions actually HELP Harper's case, making his Conservative party finally accountable for their actions.
However, I must say, Harper DID lie to us in the last election regarding the deficit. He campaigned on not running a deficit. The fact that he could not see this coming (which is a paraphrasing of his own words)worries me greatly.
The Liberals now have a chance to be the LOYAL opposition, and hold the Conservatives accountable for their actions - for the good of the country.
Well done Ignatieff.
And, admittedly, very well done Mr. Harper. (I never thought I'd EVER say that!!)
Rhonda Pick Enderby
said
Julia
said
Pete in CGY
said
As for the two blow hards, Messers Layton and Duceppe, most Canadians didn't want you anywhere near the purse strings. The threat of the coalition was only required to force the CPC party to stop playing political games and to act in the best interest of the Nation.
At this time, I hope the 2 Central Parties can work together to get us through these times(Yes, the CPC is a centralist party. Even the US Democrat Party is more consevative - they still don't have national health care in the US). Iggy is right to demand regular reporting to ensure that the govenment keeps its promises but this is not the time for games.
It's time for cooperation in Ottawa!
Bill in Calgary
said
WesternView
said
Hey Alex, check out history. When was the last time a MAJORITY government had the support of a majority of Canadians?
Think hard, its not your beloved liberals.
It was the PCs who did it in 1984 with 50.3% and previously in 1958 with 53.7%.
The liberals last got the support of the majority in 1953, yes 56 years ago, when they got 50.0%.
It is convenient that there were no checks to restrain the arrogant libs during their majorities where they DID NOT HAVE THE SUPPORT of the majority of canadians.
Minority governments are dysfunctional because of the number of parties now involved and the polarization between those who want entitlements and those who would support themselves.
And ANYONE who would enlist the Bloc in a coalition is running extremely close to seditious, if not treasonous behaviour.
Harry
said
WesternView
said
Keep dreaming, their last "meaningful" something was changing the definition of marriage which benefitted the majority of society how????
Billions solve nothing
said
Also as Canadians we seem to think that we have some importance in this world. Our economic future is tied to the US - how their economy goes so does our. Or in other words we are the flea on the big dogs back. Get over it Canada - it will not matter what Harper does or how many report cards the Liberals get - if the US does not come out of this recession for the next couple of years neither will we. And throwing billions of dollars away on chasing this will not help.
Karyn
said
The Conservatives are playing a smoke and mirrors game to their own peril. Canada needs to boost its role in the future economy of technology and manufacturing while keeping the credit flowing. That with some help with EI would have been prudent but instead he throws out a bunch of carrots that anyone can see are really poison apples. How does he expect the municipalities to match funding when he cut their budgets?
He has to go, I hope that day comes soon. I want a united Canada not one that is divided and pitted against each other by ideologues that call themselves leaders.
I.F. from MB
said
(If you're unemployed, I'm sorry for that. I'm pretty sure you are more preoccupied with other matters)
Governments may be inefficient, corporations may betray you; but we, the working-poor, need to support each other. Canada needs you all.
LH
said
Willie Everlearn
said
Bernie Campbell Sydney Nova Scotia
said
WesternView
said
No, Joe Clark failed because he was naive and actually tried to adher to his principles (before he lost them agreeing to work for Mulroney). Kim Campbell failed because Mulroney was an arrogant piece of crap that destroyed the conservative party. She was just the fallout.
Yes the conservatives should work with other parties but to succumb to all the leftist bailouts will come back to haunt us.
Rob
said
Iggy made the only decision he could today...if he had to try and overthrow the PCs...it would have worked...but we would have been forced to the polls...and he would have been destroyed, and hanging with Dion...maybe that's what we need..
I believe a strong opposition party is important, as long as they do their important role of assisting goverment and representing all Canadians, not just their parties.
Taliban Jack is opposing everyting, as usual, useless as ti@s on a Bull, and the Bloc is all about the Bloc, not a care for Canada as a whole.
Susan in Halifax
said
don from alberta
said
all these stooges are crying about the cost of a tax break for the poor, maybe the budget should of had a tax increase for the rich, it would be interesting to see what these mps would have to say about their fat pay checks being taxed.
woohoo
said
Another tidbit of knowledge:
Michael Ignatieff has lived in the US for 30 years, longer than he's lived in Canada. He only decided to come back over to Canada when he saw his opportunity so kick out Dion and grab a little bit of power.
Drew in NS
said
Jack Layton, its alway a pleasure to watch you look more and more like a fool. I guess the house hasn't lost confidence in Mr. Harper, more like Jack Layton (Hit the road Jack).
Mr. Harper Keep up the good work
M.J. Bauman- Medicine Hat
said
Buggle Bee
said
At your calculation, you would be giving each Canadian over the age of 21, the total amount of 1 dollar. Just a thought, but I think I like the Conservatives's budget much better, at least I will get a tax credit on my renovations and I will get a small tax cut, but it is bigger than the 1 dollar you have planned for the country. Thanks anyways for the thought
sick and tired
said
"What about the households with NO income, NO access to EI? Kind of hard to spend your way out when you have nothing to spend!"
I'm so tired of all the woe is me stories!!! You don't have an income - get a job. No jobs in your city - move to where there are jobs! I wish people would take responsibility for their own lives and stop depending on handouts.
Saskatchewan currently has over 10,000 jobs available. Our houses are inexpensive, the people are friendly and we have an abundance of jobs. The west is calling!!!
allan
said
Brad Lewis
said
A job well done.
Mr. Ignatieff ought to refrain from uttering threats on PM Harper such as "We are putting this government on probation."
Politics is politics but Mr. Ignatieff, please, enough with the Jack Layton lines.
Power grubbing Jack Layton needs to get with the program.
Mr. Layton and the NDP continue to vote down anything and everything that is positive and good for Canada and Canadians that the Conservatives put forth.
This irrational behavior because of total disdain for Conservatives is childish.
The leftist NDP will go no where as long as Mr. Layton is at the helm so please just keep doing what your doing Jack because Canadians don't want a welfare state, thank you very much.
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe only cares about Quebec and to hell with the rest of Canada. What more needs to be said.
Rosche
said
Who could never consider supporting a leader with such unprofessional, disgraceful and ruthless response toward a budget that meets his demands, primarily to save the Country from an election? When will the politicians truly begin to work for the good of the country and not just personal power?
Concerned Canadian
said
Could you please tell us what you feel the role of the opposition is? Is it not to keep an eye on the government, particularly government spending? Those of us who are fiscal conservatives certainly like the idea that the government will be held accountable, for two reasons:
First, Mr. Harper's Conservatives do not have a good track record on delivering on their promises. I understand that only about 20 cents on the dollar actually makes it to the supposed recipients. Don't we want promised money to go where it is supposed to? Or do you prefer that the money be promised and not delivered?
Second, the Americans have given out 350 billion dollars from their first stimulus package so far, and apparently there has been no oversight as to how it has been spent. It's difficult to see how this money has actually helped people on the street. Do we want the same thing to happen here? Or do we want the government to show how our tax dollars are being spent to help Canadians?
Please respond to these points by specifying
1. What the role of the opposition is, if not to make government accountable.
2. Whether you think the money promised should be delivered.
3. Whether Canadians deserve to know whether their tax dollars are actually stimulating the economy.
4. Why Mr. Ignatieff is "arrogant" if he does these things?
Shiyang Orillia
said
Caleb Kirby Victoria B.C
said
Mark Shortreed Wellesley
said
Those of you who think that Liberal voters would have supported an NDP/Coalition are deluded. If the Liberals had went down this road, huge numbers of small "l" Liberals would switch to supporting small "c" policies rather than go far left, like the NDP and Bloc.
This coalition would have allowed the Conservatives an easy majority in the next election.
Ignatieff knew this and wasn't willing to destroy the Liberal brand,(for personal gain) like Dion would have done.
The coalition was death to the Liberals.
Iggy has Harper on 'probation'?
I'm sure Harper's shaking in his boots.
So tired of the Liberal Games
said
You think you can do better Iggy? Mr. Layton this goes for you too...How about you both table a budget...for the public to read...we go to an election and let the public decide.
You guys talk a lot of game, but we've seen nothing but just that...TALK!
John Calgary
said
brenda
said
Oh yeah, that's rich, the Liberals demanding responsibility from the Conservatives. Have they forgotten so soon why they are number two? And people, you can take that anyway you want!
AJW
said
annoyed with Politicians
said
John Why Can't We all Get Along
said
How many Canadians would they need to fail? Is this a quantitive exercise? Why didn't the Liberals put extend EI when they sucked up the EI surplus? Why didn't the Liberals put these various economic tools into place when they were in power? Because they lack integrity! It's easier to criticize. Why can't Iggy, Layton and Duceppe accent the positive and energize this country? Because it's just more fun to beat the enthusiasm out of it when times are tough. They are all politically sadistic self serving power vacuums, sucking away on a once great nation. I hope they gag.
Peter in Edmonton
said
"Therefore the coalition is not illegal. Therefore your comments are irrelevant.
"
Considering I never said it was illegal and instead explicitly said it IS legal I can only gather you're unable to read properly. You're apparently guilty of what you said you're tired of seeing: people arguing against accusation that never took place. Since you can't read and apparently can't comprehend then i disagree: it's you're comments which are irrelevant.
Cheers
Anthony Toronto
said
Conservatives 143 seats
Liberals 77 seats
Bloc 49 seats
NDP 37 seats
Independent 2 seats
Number of seats held by the current Government 143.
Number of seats held by the Opposition 165.
Popular vote held by Conservatives 5,205334 ( 37 %)
Popular vote held by remaining parties
8,627638 (63%)
Democracy is about majority rules, not the biggest group rules.
While a coalition government is not necessarily a good thing, neither is a minority acting like a majority regardless of the will of the majority of the people.
It is the responsibility of those elected as parliamentary representatives to represent the majority of people that elected them. If it is believed by the majority of representatives that the government is not working to the good of it's constituents it must do whatever it can to correct that.
A majority of people did not elect this government and it must rule with that in mind.
What's in a word?
said
Jem
said
robert dunning
said
Rick (Ontario)
said
That's why the bloc would have been the string pullers in that farce of a coalition.
I still think the LPC will pay for their indiscretions.
Fed up in Alberta
said
Give your head a shake Johnny. Newfoundland has been feeding at the public trough of equalization payments, paid with Alberta oil money for long enough. Now that they are a Have Province and have huge oil revenues coming in, Danny Williams wants his province to be able to continue to feed at the trough along with the revenues and not pay their fair share of equalization payments. Alberta has supported the spoiled east for far too many years. Do us a favor and move south.
Brett in Alberta
said
No the part you don't get is that in the British system if the government falls it's the King/Queen that sends for the next PM. It's not a bunch of kids running with their papers in hand to the front of the class yelling "oh I can do it I can do it," just like we saw with the Liberals/NDP/Bloc.
I don't know I look around and I don't see any British people do you? Whether that's what's in the constitution or not it has proven that election reforms need to take place in Canada.
I don't care what the constitution says there is not one person in Canada that doesn't consider who the leader of a party is before they cast their vote. Not one person votes for the MP and even the independents are voted in because the voter doesn't like the leaders of the political party's.
If we were voting for the party then there should not be a leader choosen until the party comes into power and then it shouldn't matter who it is.
Are you trying to tell me that the Liberals had no say in what Dion was doing? If it's not based on the leader then why is that every time a party loses in a general election, the leader steps down?
And it was wise to wait for the U.S. How can you not see that? If we pumped all our money into cars and the U.S. turned around and pumped all their money into trains and public transit, don't you think we might have screwed ourselves. We are not market deciders.
Stop coming across in your posts like you know everything, you are starting to sound just like the Liberals and NDP.
SO128
said
Denise
said
So, you're saying that the Stephen Harper who I voted for on my ballot here in Calgary Southwest was some "other" Stephen Harper?
Fed up in Alberta
said
And please people, give me a break, Green jobs. There is no such thing as green. This is a totally fabricated issue in order to grab more of our hard earned money in the name of Green. This recession is also an artificially created thing to take money from the workers and in the end they bear the whole responsibility of paying off the debt and the big banks and government pocket it all at our expense.
Sandra
said
I believe that the Bloc should not have any say in the running of CANADA but as much as I hate what Duceppe stands for, at least he stands up for his province. To bad the rest of our leaders can't stand up for our country.
Terry
said
Les in BC
said
The Tories are in power and not the other comedy act that you so badly want to support.
SK in SK
said
Linda
said
jeff
said
Concerned Canadian
said
The role of the king/queen in our system is played by the Governor General. She is the queen's representative in Canada. If the coalition had had the opportunity (and I'm glad they didn't need to go this far) they would have approached her for the right to form the next government.
I'm not making this up- I'm just reporting the facts of the Canadian Parliamentary system to you. I'm sure you're right that most people consider the leader of the party that they vote for, but this has nothing to do with the facts of the case, and the way the system actually works.
Ironically, it's usually Conservatives who wish to keep Canada under the current system which has the queen as head of state. But as soon as that system doesn't favour them...
I'm sorry if you feel that I seem like I "know everything". I'm just trying to use a bit of fact and logic to analyze the current situation. I expect people to use some common sense, some respectful language, and to respond to my points with reasoned, informed points.
Can you truly say you've done that? Where in your post do you make reference to facts, and to what extent are you relying on emotional harangue?
Tony
said
Catherine
said
Concerned Canadian
said
Sorry Peter- I drew the inference that you were arguing against the legality of the coalition because you cited the fact that no coalition has ever been in power under these circumstances.
But if you agree that the coalition is legal, and since that's exactly the point that I made, what then was the point of your comment?
catsrulz Muskoka
said
Only the voters in Harper's Calgary riding, Denise
said
Probably just you. Unless you're being loose with the truth.
Hurray, at least one Con admits coalition is legal
said
barely legal
said
Source: (1) Criminal Code of Canada
(2) Common Law
Peter in Edmonton
said
"But if you agree that the coalition is legal, and since that's exactly the point that I made, what then was the point of your comment?"
No worries on misunderstanding...with time drawing to a close look at my comments to Abdula.
Cheers
Denise
said
How many of them posted on this board?
Probably just you. Unless you're being loose with the truth."
What exactly are you talking about? I was responding to someone who said that no one voted for Stephen Harper. Well, I did vote for Stephen Harper, he was on the ballot in Calgary Southwest, WHERE I LIVE. So what exactly am I being "loose with the truth" about?
Peter in Edmonton
said
"Sorry Peter- I drew the inference that you were arguing against the legality of the coalition because you cited the fact that no coalition has ever been in power under these circumstances. But if you agree that the coalition is legal, and since that's exactly the point that I made, what then was the point of your comment?"
No worries on misunderstanding.My point is that yes this is legal, but the RATIONAL/REASON for establishing a coalition government is the KEY to it's validity and it service to the people and the democracy.
If a minority government such as this one - only 10 seats short of a majority - can 'fall prey' to an opposition coalition drive using a non-confidence vote, over any excuse at all then this WILL be happening every time in the future for every minority government. One only needs to get the Bloc onside and statistically it should work most times.
To Wit:
""Although it is possible to have a powerful prime minister, as Britain has, or even a dominant party system, as Japan has, parliamentary systems are also sometimes unstable. Critics point to Israel, Italy, Canada, the French Fourth Republic, and Weimar Germany as examples of parliamentary systems where unstable coalitions, demanding minority parties, votes of no confidence, and threats of such votes, make or have made effective governance impossible."
Cheers
B, Edmonton
said
It's very simple. The Conservatives did not receive enough support in the last election to form a majority. Erego, they are accountable to the minority. Following this, they simply chose to act as though they run a majority government anyhow and received a foreseeable and well-deserved backlash. Why anyone is surprised by any of this is beyond me. The real long-term correction to this solution is going to be when a new Conservative party leader is chosen... one capable of working to the tune of stability rather than playing partisan politics during what could become a very serious economic problem. The flagrant threats by the opposition that you currently hear are simply a result of the meltdown before Christmas. The new budget is not actually bad, but the majority of MPs in the house are not Conservatives and deserve to have their input heard. That has not been happening and that is the real issue... which really just brings you back to the PM himself who would rather close parliament than listen to the other parties.
GWinSJ
said
John, Edmonton
said
The point of the comment was that in Canada, votes are ideally based on the local representative rather than the leader of the party. That is to say, if someone in Montreal chooses to vote Conservative, they should be doing so based on the integrity of their candidate and not based on who will lead the party.
Don't worry. Your unfortunate geographic location is not relevant.
Canada Goose Whistler
said
The concerned canadian is right!
john Montreal
said
Normally lib are good for buss. but with this time around I went for the cons which I believe will be good for the country. and they will this is a good budget. customers were waiting for the out come you will see all you non believers I will have a good year. this means the other spin-offs will too. Canada will get through this we have been tough before interest rates at 21%b bank loans woha ! prime is low now most buss. will be 2% over prime. then it will go up so will investments. and everyone will benefit, even the bitchers.
formula gouv spend,local spends,private spend, country CANADA BENEFITS..
Peter in Edmonton
said
Now if the rest of Harper's dupes could learn . . . "
One would have to deny before one can 'admit'. Maybe if you started listening to someone other than yourself....Too bad the Liberals have been voting Liberal because they're fooled by the name, which in no way actually represents a 'social liberal' like they think it does or like I am. Too bad you can sit here and ignore all the money they've wasted or stolen...all the programs they've screwed up (like IE..how come liberals have forgotten this?)....too bad it is actually the Liberals who are working for the capitalist 'elite' and the rich and the corporations all the while fooling you into believing they'r "Liberal" at all....imply because you follow the name and stop your scrutinizing there.
Canada: the ONLY intelligent voter is the moderate...the card-carrying this or that voter is a fool and easily duped.
Mary in Calgary: another ignorant of Parliamentary
said
Harper only won the election in his riding in Calgary.
Will you people who call yourselves Conservative and seem to live in Alberta please get yourselves educated about how the Canadian Parliamentary system work.
GWinSJ
said
the "coalition" would be barely and technically legal. But it would still be born in an act of sedition: "to plot the overthrow and replacement of the lawful government"
Source: (1) Criminal Code of Canada
(2) Common Law""
Barely intelligent too, it seems.
Concerned Canadian
said
Your argument is self-contradictory. If the coalition is legal, then it isn't sedition. Sedition only applies to illegal means of overthrowing a legal government. Asking the GG to accept the coalition would have made it legal, and therefore, not seditious.
Think it through.
L.A.
said
John Manitoba
said
L.A.
said
Brett in Alberta
said
Now people aren't referencing facts? But you are? I see a whole lot of opinion in your comments.
Fact: Conservatives have wanted election reforms for years.
Fact: Listen to this part because you didn't last time. When a British Government gets voted down, The Queen/King sends for the person they think is right for the job or has been recommended to them. The GG does not do this.
Fact: There were numberous petitions that listed over a million people against the coalition and only 100k that were for it. This shows that the technicality the coalition found was not accepted by the Canadian people, hence the need for election reform.
Fact: Yes I can say I had informed and reasoned points.
Fact: I didn't say I thought you "seemed" I said you "come across."
If your fact finding skills are like your reading skills, this would be where your facts are going a stray.
TD in TO
said
Larry Lefty
said
terri
said
Darlene in Halifax
said
For example, what he actually said about the Canadian economy was that Canada was in better shape to handle the global economic problems than other countries were - he did not say we would not enter a recession, nor did he say we would not be budgeting a future deficit.
If you are going to fault the man that's your choice, but could you at least fault him for something real instead of making it up?
Cheers.
Marg in Calgary
said
Lawerence of Alberta
said
Why not find a Blog for your partisan political views? Try googling some good sites. You post more than anyone here!! Look we get it already, you Love the Trudeauesque Neo-Comm Liberal Party, and the fact we have the Queen as our head of state. Many others don't share your Love, please get over it. Comment on the news but please spare us the political rants. This is a news commentary not a soapbox. Your blood pressure may actually fall and you won't have to wipe off as much spittle from the screen when someone dares to disagree with you.
BMIA
said
You can find the results of the election at Elections Canada.
But for those that want to argue statistics, the percentage of votes secured by our 308 elected MP's is only 48.7% Our country is being governed by only 48.7% of the vote - that's it!
Percentage of those votes represented by Conservative MPs = 51.0%
For those that want to argue party leadership:
Harper secured 72.7% of the votes cast in his riding.
Duceppe secured only 49.8%
Ignatieff only secured 46.1%
Joke Layton a paltry 44.6%
To be fair to Dion, he managed to secure 61.0% of the votes in his riding.
Bill Casey secured 69% of the votes in his riding (He's the Independent from CCM Valley riding))
Seems to me the only majority that exists is that the Conservatives garnered 51% of the votes represented by all elected MPs.
Harper is the only current leader that could get more than 50% of the votes cast in their own ridings (Bill Casey all fits the definition as he is a leader of his Independent party of one).
Richard L. Provencher
said