CTV News | Do-not-call list made situation 'worse,' says group

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Do-not-call list made situation 'worse,' says group

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. Jan. 15 2009 10:36 PM ET

After its launch last September, Canadians added more than 2.7 million phone numbers to the national do-not-call list.

But now, with nearly 6 million numbers registered, many Canadians who signed up are feeling duped because they're receiving more telemarketing calls than ever before.

That's because the do-not-call list may have gotten into the wrong hands.

To access the list, a telemarketer simply has to go to the National Do Not Call List website, enter the appropriate information and pay a small fee.

The problem is, anyone can pose as a telemarketer and obtain the list. If they're willing to break the rules, they could then call the numbers, which are all recent.

And if that list makes its way to a telemarketer outside Canada, the CRTC does not have the jurisdiction to stop them from calling Canadian numbers.

Eleanor Friedland, vice-president of the Consumers Council of Canada, said the situation is "now worse than it was before."

"If you don't have somebody checking up on it, how do you know it's working or how do you know bad guys aren't taking advantage of it," Friedland told CTV.ca on Thursday.

"We want to make certain that whatever loopholes exist are filled."

She said the CRTC needs more power to enforce the new rules.

"It should be fully staffed and the money has to be there to pay staff if that's what has to happen to check up on it," Friedland said.

"Otherwise, what's the point of putting in something that's to protect consumers if you don't watch out for the bad guys."

The CRTC says that the do-not-call registry has been a success and that an increase in unwanted calls cannot be absolutely attributed to the registry.

Lynne Fancy of the CRTC told CTV.ca that they are seeing "positive feedback from Canadians, that they have actually seen a reduction in the number of calls."

"In terms of an increase of calls . . . telemarketers can obtain calling lists from a wide variety of different sources, and these sources are unrelated to either the CRTC or the national do-not-call list," she added.

But the list has no shortage of critics.

Michael Geist, a law professor at the University of Ottawa and prominent national commentator on technology, says the do-not-call list is so flawed he likes to call it the "do-not-hesitate-to-call-list."

He said the list of exemptions -- which include registered charities, political parties and candidates, and newspapers selling subscriptions -- is so extensive that there aren't many organizations forced to abide by the new rules.

"In many instances the calls haven't stopped because the law permits those organizations to continue to make the calls," he said.

Geist also said jurisdiction flaws have provided a clear loophole for telemarketers.

"We've seen almost from the very outset, organizations set up shop outside the country and call using either automated calls, robocalls or just regular calls coming from outside Canada -- which is beyond the CRTC's jurisdiction," Geist told CTV.ca.

The CRTC maintains that they will take action against those misusing the do-not-call registry.

"Any telemarketer can access that list, but if anyone is found to be misusing the list, then we will be taking action," Fancy said.

When asked what actions the CRTC would take against telemarketers overseas, Fancy replied: "The CRTC will take all the complaints we receive seriously and will conduct investigations and if we find an organization or person is misusing the list, then we will take the actions we can do.

"We have the right to impose penalties."

John Lawford, counsel at Public Interest Advocacy Centre in Ottawa told CTV.ca that the CRTC can impose fines of up to $15,000 per call against a company or up to $1,500 per call against an individual.

But he also said fines could be as low as one cent per call.

More than a year ago, Geist called for a "mutual recognition" approach between Canada and the U.S., which also has a do-not-call list.

The law would prevent anyone in the U.S. or Canada to call numbers on either do-not-call list.

Still, that wouldn't stop calls coming from overseas.

Geist said even domestically, the CRTC has been inundated with complaints.

He was so fed up with the "designed to fail" program that he set up his own website www.ioptout.ca, which allows Canadians to tell exempted organizations that they don't want to be contacted.

"From the CRTC level, they've got to accelerate some of the complaints, hand out significant fines where appropriate and send a strong message to the market that this is a law with some teeth and the CRTC stands ready to enforce it," he said.

Comments are now closed for this story

Richard
said

Easy solution for me.
"Hi, I am calling from..."click, I hang up, I don't speak, just hang up, easy and simple.


Gerry Mccowan
said

You would almost think that the Government is going to get a kick back from all the calls. I knew this was not going to work with all the exceptions, to the rule


Kevin in Vancouver
said

How about not answering your phone if you're busy or getting call display. How much money should we spend on this?


Ki-Som Victoria
said

All I know is that I have put my number on that no call list, and I am STILL getting calls. I tell them that I am on a no call list and not to call this number again, doesn't work, they still call. So now I look at the call display and if it isn't a number that I know or it is unlisted, I will not answer the phone.


Jamie
said

I'm torn. On one hand, I feel badly for the people who bought into this crap about an opt-out list.

On the other I believe, very strongly, that telemarketing ought to be illegal. If I'm not already doing business with someone, they have no right to call me at my home.


chris in hanover
said

this is why more energy and attention should be put on things that actually matter.... if canadians are really that troubled by a telemarketer to the point that they feel the need to take the time to go onto a 'do not call list' ... then perhaps those canadians should shake their heads and do something to help some serious problems... telemarketers should be at the bottom of the list of worries.


Frank
said

Actually i noticed less calls ever since i signed onto this list.Lets hope it stays this way.


Jim Nauss
said

Why can't you just block certain area codes? That would eliminate almost all unwanted call.


fitzz
said

Geist is right. There are absolutely too many exceptions!

Perhaps a more direct approach by taxpayers is needed. One of the major national parties, to which I had previously contributed, persisted in mailing me. I told them "Once more and no more funding from me." They did and I DID too!


Dirk Diggler
said

Why do people have phones if they don't want anyone calling them? It's really complete idiocy.


Sparky in Kitchener
said

New solution:If telemarketers call me I try to sell them something (doesn't matter what)
This way I can have a laugh at them and I now look forward to their calls.

I know>>>>>>I must be really lonely!


Fred
said

What works:
Combo of Call Display and Call Screen. If you don't recognize the number, don't answer. If it's a robocall and they won't give up, add them to Call Screen (up to 12 numbers - not enough, but it helps with the worst offenders).

What doesn't work:
DNC list. It's worse than simply not effective. The list is basically a DO call list for TMs outside the country. Put your number(s) on that list and you're just about guaranteed to get more calls than ever!

One other thing we discovered: Indent-A-Call, which we had but weren't using, was tripling our load of junk calls. Once we dumped that service, the load dropped significantly.



Frustrated
said

I tried to register my cell phone number on the website and it keeps telling me that my area code is wrong. I have no faith now in this list.


DEEP NNN
said

The Registry has reduced my nuisance calls by 80-90% at least.

It does help to have caller ID and voice mail just in case.

It's been very quiet since a month after the Registry was started.


Marc Coquitlam B.C.
said

I signed up, and now recieve more solicitations then ever before. I get repeated calls and messages tring to lower my credit card interest, which is currently at 0%. I ask, how low can you go?

I have call display from Telus. It is a joke. Telus allows callers to have their number blocked, and then tried to sell me a service to block the blocked numbers. I thought that is why I had call display?

Now I pick up the phone, and leave the caller hanging on the line until they give up and hang up. Seen as time is money, their companies lost productivity should be reason enough for them to refrain from calling our house.


Who gives a ish?
said

Is this really news worthy? Our government created laws that they can't enforce and cost to much....yadayadayada. This story could be about any government program. Our government is a joke, nothing new. Enjoy the depression.


Billy
said

i disconnected my home phone and take all calls through the cellular....since the cell has never gotten any in 15 plus yrs problem solved....all those tele-losers can go touch themselves


Barb
said

Thinking "what a great idea" I added my home phone number and my husband's and mine cell phone number. Horrible, horrible idea. The only person that ever had my cell number was my husband but now we are both getting calls from U.S. telemarketers and unsolicited text messages and downloads on our cell phones. Our service provider (Telus) says they can do nothing. The CRTC has made a bad situation so much more worse.



R D
said

Quite frankly, I think it is working VERY WELL. At least, for me anyway. I've only had 1 call from the Toronto Star. I just told them that I didn't want it on a regular basis and asked them to take my number off their list. That was it. Done. No more calls. So, it works for me.


Anneke, Ottawa
said

Simply "hanging up" is fine unless you receive several calls a day from a machine, on a daily basis. Nor does the "no call" list work for certain companies who are scamming in the first place. They don't care and continue to call, anyway. "This is your Captain speaking..." is one of these fraudster's come-ons.

You can't block them because they have blocked their number.

You can't report them because they don't give their company name and force you to call them if you want to tell them personally not to call. And they use fake company names which change... and are already on fraud watch lists but still manage to continue harassing and defrauding.


Paul Labatte, Toronto ON
said

Telemarketers are now using SKYPE or related computer related telephone services as the telephone number shows up as all zero's. I answered one and established the call was from Eastern Canada by discussing the weather before the guy told me where to go and hung up on me. Today, I had two calls on my telephone which were 1 800 numbers and when I called them back, both were telemarketers. DNC does not work well as there are too many exceptons.


Rain
said

I was wondering if I'm the only one who has noticed an increased number of calls. Guess not.

Now I'll have to go back to my old system - yelling and swearing at them. Usually gets rid of them after one or two attempts.


Nicole Brousseau
said

Since I put my number on the list, I dont even get one telemarketting call a week. It is working very well for me.


Alex Nelson
said

Hangup


bernse
said

It's worked very well for me too. I think though that the phone companies should be compelled to give their customers (free of charge) call screening and caller ID to help us filter out more calls, instead of charging us through the nose for these services. After all, the phone companies profit from selling their customer lists, it's the least they could do.


marie ott
said

it is still annoying and intrusive to have the phone ringing at all. I have a phone with call display but I am not always near that phone and sometimes you just pick up. today I got a call where there was no one there. what is that about, someone just trying to see if your number is legit or what? I have had alot of those lately ever since this started. not sure why.

they are annoying that is all I know. however I will say that call display is the best feature I have ever paid for! mostly if it is a long dist number I dont recognize I dont pick up and most of the time it seems to be a telemarketer. whoever dreamed this up in govt has egg on their face or is getting a kick back from someone.


Nicole
said

I used to have major problems when I was with Telus, so I stopped being with them. When I switched to Rogers I still received a few telemarketers, but 70% less than when I was with Telus. I added my number to the do-not-call list, and now, since then I havn't received any. My parents have been using the list for a few years, and they havn't had problems since then either.


Jeanne from B.C.
said

I am not getting any on my home phone but I also put our cell phones on there and now I get calls on the cell


Waste Their Time!
said

When a telemarketeer calls, I try to keep them on the phone as long as possible without buying anything! I try to waste as much of their time as possible! I even had a "supervisor" come on the line and get mad at me for wasting the telemarketeers time!


M Morris
said

Before the list, we hardly ever got calls, maybe once every few weeks. But we signed up our home phone number anyway just because it sounded like a good idea. Now I get calls on average of eight times a day, clearly the list did not work.


Please don't leave a message.
said

Since adding my number to the DNC list, I am now constantly receiving (2-3 per day) calls from numbers like 1-234-567-8912 or 1-222-333-4444 or 1-111-111-1111. Does anyone know where these are from, and how the telephone companies are allowed to not protect us from these Telespams?


Jacqueline
said

It seems to be working for me. I got a marked increase in calls during the 30-day waiting period, but since then, almost nothing. I generally pick up and if there's no voice right away, I know it's an automated call and I hang up. There have been less of those.

I got two calls from newspapers and I asked them to put me on their no-call list, and that's it.

I've never wasted my money on call display, because people can block their numbers. I have call answer. If I'm busy, I don't pick up. If it's important, someone can leave a message.


Ned Nocall
said

To Dirk Diggler....why do people have phones??? I like to speak to people I know. I like having a service like 911. I like to be able to call reputable organizations to discuss billing, services etc. I did not get a phone to make contact with telemarketers!


Keith in Oshawa
said

To:
Sparky in Kitchener

That was hilarious !! Reminds me of something similar I pulled with my brother..they never did call back after the game of tag
we played with them.




Jim Scouten
said

Don`t care about private phones but it sure is asking for a disaster when they keep calling Emergency number.Notably when they belong to Volunteer Fire Departments after a while firefighters stop responding thinking its a telemarketer.Very dangerous I say


Sonia
said

I never ever had a telemarketer call before at work but I registered my number and now my "Captain" with his annoying blaring ship horn has called me about 4 times since registering my number. Can't the CRTC get anything right?


Jun in Surrey
said

If you are going to register "Do not call list" just register home phone. But do not register Cell numbers. I am getting telemarketing calls since I have registered the "list". What a bad idea. I never had telemarketing calls on my cell since I got my first cell phone 12 years ago, but now I do.


Lucy AB
said

My problem is if I don't catch there phone calls it leaves a voicemail of "dead air" and plugs up all my available voicemail space. This has been happening everyday for the last couple of weeks. If anyone knows how to stop this let me know!


Jeannie Skead, ON
said

The best thing to do is ask the caller to remove you from their individual list. I have done this for many companies calling with "offers". I even had to request this from my bank. Simply hanging up or ignoring the call just puts your name on the list for the next round.


J Colter
said

I signed up and the calls to my number have decreased to zero. I've only had one person call to ask if I would do a poll. I think the DO NOT CALL LIST works great!


John in Mtl
said

Most of these numbers are already available - it's called a phone book! Why on earth would a profit-driven telemarketing company go out of it's way to call people who do not want to be phoned? I signed up for the no-call list and it's working fine for me.


Claude
said

My solution has historically been to simply hang up. Since registering my number on the do not call registry, I have only had a couple of calls. I reckon that's a huge success by any standard.


Steve B.
said

I have used a routine when telemarketers call. DO NOT HANG UP. JUST put the phone down on the counter UNTIL IT LOGS ITSELF OFF. This way it will crank up the long distance expense for the caller. I even press 1 for the operator and then left the phone next to my speaker that had been playing music. Let them have the extra long distance charge on their Phone Plan.


Bob in Harley
said

I am very pleased with the do not call list Calls have decreased dramatically. No system is perfect. For those who continue to call, I simply ask them to hold for just a moment then leave the phone sitting on the counter for a few minutes. When I do return they have hung up..with the message do not bother me.


Joe
said

I never got any calls before I put my number in. My mistake. Perhaps time to change the number.


Charlie
said

Oh my.... Really people why would you curse and swear at people because they are calling to try and sell you something? Do you curse and swear when the girlguides come to your door? do you not understand that its a part of the way the world works, get over it or dont have a phone! i don't get mad and never walk down the street because hot dog vendors are on the side of the road yelling "come get your hot dogs" let's talk about things that are more important please!


Matty
said

My first question to them is "Are you being paid to make this call?" If yes I then say "When you start paying me I may listen til then"...Click. If they say "No" I say "Neither am I" ...click. I don't worry about interrupting them as they are interrupting me. That's on a good day.. usually I just hang up on them.


Marvin ( please withold info )
said


Very Simple.

Just add your local MP / MLA / Alderman / Mayor's locale telephone # to the " D.N.C.L. " and PRESTO-CHANGO !

You'd be surprised at the results.




Jim in BC
said

Although I know it’s inconvenient, I changed my phone number and had it unlisted. Now I get zero telemarketers. I haven’t had one for over two years since I did this.



Annoyed, Coquitlam BC
said

Frankly I do not want to be called at home by someone trying to sell me things I don't need. If I needed them I would have called them myself. All these people that seem to think it is okay for a company to harass individuals in the privacy of their own homes must work for a company that encourages these ridiculous calls. I am starting to wonder if all the numbers added to the DNCL have been sold to yet another company looking to cash in.


Ryder
said

I dont hang up. I simply put the phone on the counter and carry on with whatever I am doing. It is funny listening to them going on and on 'hello?' 'hello?' After a few minutes I hang up. They usually get the hint and dont call back again. If you listen carefully, you'll hear a click as the auto dialler switches to a person, that is the time to put the phone down.


dee
said

The government created a list and now they sell the list, why is that such a big surprise?
The phone companies have now made cell phones capable of displaying what ever number the caller wishes , gee why do I get calls from 0-000-000-0000. Can't block it with telus's block either because it is not a recognized area code grrrr. I get em at home and on my cell now that I have registered with the do not call list.


Mountain Man
said

wonder how much this pointless list cost us taxpayers. Somehow I'm not suprized.


Al Alltalk
said

I try to talk to the telemarketer as long as possible. I figure the longer I can keep them on the phone, the less calls they can make to anyone else. and if we all pitch in and keep them talking then one guy takes the lumps and saves others. and who knows you might be able to make a friend.


Brett (Vancouver)
said

Only yourselves to blame.

Every time you put your phone number down for a raffle, promotion, credit card application, warranty form, or retail sales person... your opening yourselves up for telemarketing.
STOP GIVING OUT YOUR PHONE NUMBER.

I get maybe 2 telemarketing calls a week, one from big brothers asking if I have anything to donate (which I don't mind), the other from my wife's bank. 2 Calls a week is nothing to complain about.

It's the same as email spam. NEVER give out your primary email address if you don't want spam.
I have a yahoo account for everything that is not family/friends/business. I don't even use my main email for this site. Guess what... I get zero spam.

Stop griping because you had out your information to pretty much everyone, and act surprised when someone uses it to contact you.
Learn the system, and play within it.



spencer
said

Lucky for me I did NOT register on the ''do not call list''......BUT I will waste their time to no end.....one of the best lines ''CAN YOU HOLD FOR A MINUTE WHILE I LET THE DOG OUT '' set the phone down and go do something for 10 minutes and see if they are still there......Tell them I can not hear you....speak up....speak up......and then YELL back int the phone......


Shafiq
said

Before we used to get calls from the 1-8** numbers. Now the numbers show up as 000-000-000 or 123-456-789. So you can't even report the numbers any more. These con artists don't care about rules, they just try to work around them. If you don't answer the phone they keep calling every day after 6 pm till 9 pm.


Teresa Calbeck
said

I have had virtually no calls since placing my phone number on the DNC list. I used to get at least 4 a day. For me, it worked.


Dylan
said

We're getting way more out-of-Canada telemarketing calls. But we didn't sign up for the do-not-call list. We also have an unlisted number. Adding to the problem is telemarketers are becoming more aggressive. We try to be polite and ask people to take our name off their list, but they keep calling and calling.


Laura - Saint John
said

I have had no calls since adding my number to the DNC list. It is great.


Darryl from P.A.
said

Since I went on the do not call list the number of calls has dropped.

Now if I get unwanted calls and the mood hits me,I see how long I can keep them on the line.Asking as many questions as I can think of and repeat a few of them. (personal best just under 10 minutes)
then polity tell them that for the last so many minutes they have not been able to bother anyone else, I have never heard from any of them again.

Darryl


Cambob
said

If a person causes you harm or financial loss, there are laws in place.

A few years ago I had a telemarketer call me while I was cooking dinner. The call distracted me long enough that my dinner burned. So I called a lawyer, gave him the telemarketing company info and we sued them for $4,000. They settled about 4 months later for $2,000+legal costs.

Did this stop all telemarketers from calling me? Nope!
Telemarketers are basically commercials. We live in a "commercial" society, and anyone who believes their phone is "off limits" is really being foolish.


smart one..
said

pfff.
why would you even buy into this? its just another way for them to make money.


Khai
said

What I don't get is why a telemarketer would waste time calling people who put their name on the list. These people are going to be the angriest and least receptive. It's like McDonalds marketing burgers to vegetarians.


Don from Ottawa
said

I seriously doubt that any telemarketing operation would waste its time specifically targeting the do-not-call list. That would make about as much sense as a snowshoe salesman targeting Hawaiians.


bill
said

when they call and ask for me i say hold on and i'll get him, then i just leave the phone off the hook and leave them waiting. doesn't work for the message ones though so i think i'm going to cancel my landline and just go with cell unlisted. i can't believe they make any money at this. i can't see anyone actually buying they're product because they're so annoying. and yes, i am getting more calls since going on the do not call list


John in Toronto
said

I have satellite TV and free adult chanells so I just put the phone down in front of the TV and pop one of those chanells on and oooo and ahhhh them out of their minds. Works every time.


Anne - Brantford, ON
said

The way I see it is that a foreign company can use a Canadian address to get access to Canadians information when they fill out the telemarketer section.

Perhaps the CRTC should have software that will turn foreign IP addresses away. I've been to American sites that will not allow me to sign up for something because I am in Canada.


Gordon in Sarnia
said

Same people in our government who did the gun registry, did the do not call list.

These people are now managers at Nortel.


Ron - New Westminster, BC
said

I'm not sure what the complainers did when they registered for it not to work for them - we've had telemarketing calls stop completely in OUR home since we've registered...

I guess there is a (small) percentage of people in this world who will complain about absolutely everything absolutely all of the time.

However they were no doubt the ones that were complaining that the government wasn't doing anything to stop the telemarketers so maybe I need to thank them for encouraging the government to make the attempt to fix the problem in the first place???


Steve in PEI
said

Richard is 100% right. The very second you know it's a telemarketer, just hang up. Don't try to be "polite." Don't be weak and think you're being "kind" to the poor drone who's calling you. Yeah that guy is a human being with a crappy job, but if you let him make his spiel and you're not going to buy anything you're not doing you or him any favours. His call time goes up and he has nothing to show for it. The kindest thing to do if you're not going to give them any money is don't argue with them, just hang up the phone. You don't waste your time and you give the telemarketer a better call time. Best of all, it's a technique with zero stress, very little time wasted and a 100% success rate.


Gina
said

It's amazing how few people have unlisted telephone numbers. Paying $2 a month as opposed to what you pay for call display is so worth it. Because our number is unlisted we had no reason to register on the do-not-call list...and we never hear a peep from telemarketers. When a call comes in late in the dinner hour, we always know its a family or friend.


Stewie Griffin
said

just threaten the telemarketer with legal action, violence or whatever. Then the calls will stop


TerryG
said

There is no excuse for this. telephone companies can block any number they want from getting through. We need to be able to push a button on the phone during a call to block it at will. I don't see why that can't be done in this technological age.


Rodger in Calgary
said

More research might be in order. I signed up for several lists a few months ago and way fewer calls (for now?). Anyway, I would disagree with these comments, but it wouldn't be news if they reported BOTH sides of the story.


John in TO
said

How many of us are getting a call from 000-000-0000. A good way to get around the blocked call feature some may have on their phones. You dont have to unblock a call if it shows up all zeros. Also, its a good way to make a call untraceable. I"ve been getting several of those a month and im on the do not call list. You'd think by now telemarketing companies would realize if someones name is on a "do not call list" they are the last person to want to buy something from a telemarketer. Come on guys, get off our backs. We just want to have our dinners in peace.


robert saint amour
said

you also might think of another pain in the rear...spam! if you block the sender on your email, they then know they have a recipient/sucker at the other end, do not block senders of spam, just delete


Jim Love
said

I use a Tele Zapper on my phone line with great results. I have no need for the Do Not Call List


webstir
said

I am on the do not call list.
It is suppose to kick in this month sometime.

My wife recieved a call on her cell phone and our cell phones are also on the do not call list.

If(if) we still get calls on our cell phone we are calling aliant and will end
the cell.Plain and simple.

Its bad enough to get these calls at home but on my cell I draw the line.


Dave Griffith
said

I just say "hang on..." then leave the line live for as long as they are willing to stay on...I never go back and actually speak to them...increases their call time metrics which really ticks them off, and amuses me.


Don from Saskatchewan
said

Calls from 1-234-567-8900 etc. are from Telemarketers who want to see what time you are home for their real Telemarketing calls.
My Scam Artist Extrodinaire was 1-877-889-2024. They called every night about 7 pm (Sundays about 2 p.m.)and not say ahything for 3 weeks. I took the phone off the hook, didn't say anything and left it off for 10 minutes and than hung up. After 2 nites, no more calls.


Deaf man in Ontario
said

I have received several annoys calls that it keeps me bother because I am using telecommunications device for the deaf (TDD).

Telemarketing continue to call us repeat same number because I could not answer with voice. They do not know how to use TDD and use voice. I cannot hear their voice and keep me bother. It is sad for them because they do not know how to communicate with deaf people on TDD without Bell Relay Service.


Randall from Ontario
said

If a tele-marketer calls and asks for me I just say: "He passed away 2 weeks ago."
The person apologizes and hangs up


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