CTV News | Air strikes, night raids a 'last resort' in Afghanistan

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Air strikes, night raids a 'last resort' in Afghanistan

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CTV News: Roger Smith on the growing anger
CTV Newsnet: Omar Samad, Afghan ambassador
CTV Newsnet: Strikes could turn Afghans against NATO

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CTV.ca News

Date: Tue. Dec. 23 2008 4:52 PM ET

Brig.-Gen. Denis Thompson, the head of Canadian and NATO forces in Kandahar, is taking issue with an independent report alleging air strikes and nighttime raids in Afghanistan may be stoking a backlash among civilians.

The report by the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission -- entitled "From Hope to Fear" -- says violent house raids and air strikes on civilians could undo seven years of NATO and government efforts to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan civilians.

Thompson says he welcomes the report but also noted that coalition soldiers only conduct such strikes as a "last resort."

"Every precaution is taken to ensure there is a high degree of certainty regarding targets ... Task Force Kandahar troops -- both U.S. and Canadian -- take extraordinary efforts to minimize collateral damage and to avoid harm to innocent civilians," he said.

Thompson referred specifically of two incidents this year -- one on July 27 and the other on Sept. 18 -- in which civilians were killed.

"Both incidents were investigated, and in both cases, it was found that our soldiers followed proper escalation of force procedures," he said.

The AIHRC, which "acts independently," is funded by NATO countries involved in the Afghan mission.

"From Hope to Fear" claims that Afghan families know stories of friends and family members who have been awoken in the middle of the night and "abused" by armed men.

"In general AIHRC questions PGFs'(Pro-government Forces') heavy reliance on air strikes, which on several occasions have resulted in high numbers of civilian casualties that may have been symptomatic of excessive use of force," the commission's report says.

"Afghan families experienced their family members killed or injured, their houses or other property destroyed, or homes invaded at night without any perceived justification or legal authorization ... local resentment over high civilian casualties and perceived insensitivity are exacerbated by a lack of public accountability."

There have been several high-profile attacks that have killed and injured civilians in recent months. They include, an Aug. 22 U.S. raid on the village of Azizabad in Herat province, which killed at least several dozen people, including women and children.

According to the United Nations:

  • A total of 1,798 civilians have been killed this year.
  • A total of 455 civilian died from coalition air strikes.

Omar Samad, the Afghan ambassador to Canada, told CTV Newsnet on Tuesday that government and NATO forces are obviously not targeting civilians. But he added that there has been a "pattern" over the years where civilians have been hurt and killed.

"We do not want to erode the support the Afghans have for the (international security force)," he said.

The Canadian Press reported earlier that British Royal Navy Capt. Mark Windsor, a spokesman for NATO forces in Afghanistan, said coalition forces are aware of the report's criticism.

"We have to do our job, obviously, but we must demonstrate proportionality and restraint and discrimination in the use of firepower," Windsor said.

"We are concerned about this ... and we are trying our utmost to work with the Afghan security forces to try and reduce civilian casualties, but also any distress to our Afghan hosts in this country."

This report recommends that:

  • Pro-government forces minimize collateral damage to civilian lives and properties.
  • There be better PGF co-ordination amongst its forces in planning and conduct of operations.
  • PGF review and clarify chains of command and any controlling guidelines on night raids.
  • Military or security tactics be avoided wherever possible in favour of regular law enforcement-led search and arrest procedures.
  • PGF should initiate prompt and thorough investigations into any incident of alleged civilian casualties and publicly release details of their findings and evidence.
  • The Afghan government coalition troops make a more concerted effort to render justice for victims.

In the past, Karzai has called for a review of the use of U.S. and NATO air power.

A second commission report -- also released Tuesday -- claims there have also been a litany of Taliban abuses. They include kidnappings and executions against Afghan civilians.

"Attacks against government civilian officials and institutions have increasingly chipped away at the government's ability to provide services to hundreds and thousands of people," the report on the insurgency says.

"It is often the poorest people of Afghanistan who are being threatened, kidnapped, and executed because they work on government or international construction or development projects."

Comments are now closed for this story

Gunnar
said

When the people of Afghanistan stop letting scumbag terrorists hide in their home, or bravely, under burkhas, then the coalition forces will not have to search homes in such a manner. They need to consider the nature of the enemy they (and WE) are fighting. If they're angry about the state of affairs, then the people to take umbrage with are not coalition forces, but the little worms who hide behind their families and children.


Slumberjack
said

If the night time bombings, murderous raids, and other heinous war crimes and atrocities committed by the USian forces and their allies continue, perhaps the population will rise up and throw out the scumbag invaders.


stay the course
said

What kind of report would you expect from a group like this??
As any "human rights" (anti-establishment) group, if you look at them the "wrong" way, they cry..... Same as the drug raids here.......... Prue unadulterated BS....


david
said

I dont hear the Afghans complaining when Canadian troops, who are putting their lives on the line for these people, get blown up by IED's. Is that not worthy of disgust also? Double standard here. We should wait until the Taliban attacks us before acting, instead of being proactive and hunt them down? I dont think so. Maybe the Afghans should look after their own from now on.


Sherry Katrina
said

You also have to remember than some of these "civilians" are either being held as human shields by the usual cowards or are family/friends/other villagers who fully and totally back the Taliban/Al Qaida and cheer when any of our coalition troops are killed. These are not always "innocent victims" and the Coalition does not go into these places to be so unkind. Also remember there are a lot of lies out there where the "men in the night" are Taliban - this is called propaganda. The journalists make it sound as if this is all the coalition does....it is easy to tell "westeners" anything you want to make things look totally one-sided.


21 AR
said

Turn the population against us? Give me a break! The report belies a totally naive view of who are enemy are, and how they think and even what type of war we are fighting or why. The RCAF would do very well to ignore such childish observations.

And just an FYI to posters on 'scumbag invaders': The current ethnic population of Southern Afghanistan, as well as the Taliban Army are invaders themselves, having driving the ethnic Afghanis north and in many cases into foreign lands. The Taliban are an army of 'Holy Warriors" from around the world - a coalition of the willing Jihadists. If the indigenous Afghan people are to 'rise up' as the poster insists, they would have to throw out his pals in the Taliban too!


Frank Miscavitch
said

I think perhaps the fact that the local population has never been for the current coalition forces is a more pertinent fact. The Soviets, the Taliban, and now us.

Whomever is occupying should encourage responsible governance, education, and infrastructure. The Afghani's need to be brought into the 20th century before they can join the 21st.




Santa Claus
said

These tactics will backfire all the time. These remind me of the kind of raids on villages that were done during the Vietnam War.

If you want to win over the hearts and minds of the people, you dont' raid their homes and villages, nor do you abuse them to gather intelligence.

The Canadian Forces have always had a different approach to gathering intelligence and information.

They actually go into the villges, remove their head gear and sit down and talk with the village elders and actually make a connection, one man to the other.

This has proven very effective in winning the hearts and minds of the citzens. It takes a lot of time and is a very slow process, but it is a method that works way better then brandishing weapons and harrassing innocent civilians.


MRC (London, ON)
said

I'm beginning to get the impression that the Afghan people do not want our help.

Does everyone in the Western World forget how many air raids were conducted in World War II and how many innocent people so unfortunately died? Last time I checked, the end of that war turned out pretty good. Harsh, I know, but true.

War is a terrible thing and I believe NATO is doing the best they can. I'm sure they could end this war overnight but the methodologies they would have to employ (which were acceptable only a few generations ago) are likely just not acceptable today.


B Belobrajdic
said

Easy to make one sided comments when these "civilians" are the ones who are perpetrating the violence against coalition troops or aiding and abetting the insurgents. Hard to differentiate civilian from insurgent when they purposely dress the same and ningle with the rest of the populace. I firmly agree with Gunnar. Put yourself or a loved one in a pair of combat boots then let's see you talk. Internet & media tough guys.
Pathetic. The PC folk will have their day to pay. That's when they'll come crying for us true Canadians to "bail em" out. Ruck up or shut up is what I say.


Reece
said

"When the people of Afghanistan stop letting scumbag terrorists hide in their home, or bravely, under burkhas, then the coalition forces will not have to search homes in such a manner."

Maybe you've forgotten that these people are civilians. Most people, especially people like yourself, wouldn't be so quick to protest a Hell's Angel's banquet next door...night after night after night after....

The coalition needs to turf out American command and assign it to Canadian or other. I think the American command has largely been a failure in Iraq as well as Afghanistan. Knowing only how to bomb and brutalize every terrorist, woman & child is not exactly the best way to win hearts and is why the Americans have lost every war after WW2. EVERY war. Great at blowing things up, but absolutely terrible at winning hearts and minds.


RCR
said

Santa Claus you have no idea what you are talking about.The Vietnam war was not lost because of hearts and minds.It was lost because gutless politians didn't have the grapes do what needed to be done ie invade in force Cambodia and other infiltration routes into the South.That's sounds familiar ie Pakistan.As far as this report goes maybe they want our guys to go in broad daylight so the enemy can see them better. Basic infantry tactics strike when they least expect it.It saves lives.Ask an infantryman (myself-retired)and they will tell you the same thing.They enemy has little or no nightime vision equipment so it is natural to conduct these operations when the advantage is on your side.Enough said.


Samual
said

Quit wasting money on war we have no business in. If canadians want to get involved create a department of peace here at home. If the americans want to go play shoot em up cowboy & create hate towards their country, then they deserve what ever happens to them.
Does it make Harper feel like a big boy in the sand box to send over boys with band aids & spoons. With the only results being hate towards our country.


James
said

The coalition has become the terrorists in Afghanistan. Instead of working closely with the Afghan people, thecoalition troops have used Western military ways to try and subdue the terrorist. This is the "shock and awe" approach invented by Bush and Cheney. The Afghan people are a vary traditional people and a much more inclusive approach by coalition troops should have been used.


Peter Rapsey
said

In the words of one of the comments, "scumbug terrorists" will increase if these do not decrease or stop. We (NATO) should know better. A lot of innocents - some guilty - are dying.


goldens
said

Wonderfull report! Lets let the terrorists rest at night so they can continue increasing the hero's number in the morning!
John Wilson
Bridgetown NS


Andre
said

One thing that I don't believe that this report can account for is that once the Taliban or AQ fighter puts his rifle back in his closet he becomes a "civilian". I'm sure innocent people are killed or injured and that's terrible. But how many of these "innocents" are simply unarmed Taliban or AQ?


Cal in Ottawa
said

It is amazing that after 7 years of operations in Afghanistan, how little many of the people commenting on this report seem to understand the ground truth.
There is nothing in the report that appears inaccurate regarding cause and effect. And it is a reality that some forces often depend on somewhat sketchy information when conducting operations. It is also true that the night raids conducted by some forces often use a shotgun approach. There are good reasons for this, including the difficulty of identifying the enemy, but is is also true that one is bound to foster resentment. Just imagine if you were rousted in the middle of the night by our police in a case of mistaken identity!
There are some huge problems with the current mission in Afghanistan but one of the more important is the lack of troops to task. In Kosovo, which was essentially a traditional peacekeeping operation, there were 23 soldiers/1000 population. In Afghanistan, an active counterinsurgency the number is roughly 1 soldier/1000! Thus, to even the balance deficit, the coalition relies on 'airpower' to get its soldiers out of trouble. Not a tactic that is conducive to successful COIN operations. COIN doctrine, as written by Petraeus, notes the need to live amongst the people, not on big bases, but that requires numbers. When forces live in their secure bases they cede the ground to the insurgents. This makes it impossible for the locals to 'kick the scumbags out' since these same 'scumbags' are the local government.
Most Afghans want a secure future, not the Taliban. However, when it is only the Taliban that can stop the insecurity, and control the warlords and criminals, the people will embrace this bad choice. The ISAF mission must change and the US, as the biggest contributor, must lead this change.




understanding history
said

Does the happening in Afghanistan sound a lot like what went on in Vietnam, and look what went on there. True this is a very different enemy, but the result will be the same. There can be no winners in this fight. When we leave, the terror will return. Certainly we have to see that this will be a very real possibility. This was a reaction to a terrorist attack seven years ago. Time to look at bringing them home sooner rather then 2011, as the job there will and can not ever be done..


MHB
said

To all cowboys out there: We are the ones who invaded this country, they did not invade us!. We are bombing their villages killing women and children under all types of silly pretexts!. Of course, someone will say that the "evil" Taliban were the ones harbouring Bin Ladin!. Even this argument is not true!. History says that the Taliban were asking for a SINGLE solid evidence that Bin Ladin is behind 9/11 to hand him in!. No one, till this day, has such evidence (apart from a video tape showing the left-handed Bin Ladin writting with his right hand and claiming responsibility). The Americans themselves are now questioning the bizarre official 9/11 story!. In both Iraq and Afghanistan, the West is an aggressor motivated by greed and the thirst for controlling oil fields and their pipelines!. All our talk about fighting terrorism, human rights, democracy, and freedom is simply BS.


Dale - Edmonton
said

The Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission is making recommendations on how to conduct military missions. Oh my.

And exactly how long, in seconds, do you suppose the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission would last if the Taliban were back in control of the country? The would cease to exist.

The yankees are coming to Afghanistan, 30,000 strong. They will kill the Taliban no matter where they are and what time of day it is. They can all go huddle in a cave with Bin Laden.


Greg
said

It is tragic that people of this day and age can not get along. But america can not settle this matter. Only they can settle their own differences. The only reason that the states got invovled was over oil, plain and simply. Canada should get out and let the americans stick their nose in where it does not belong on their own. Have we not learned anthing yet. They have been fighting since the days of the bible and will continue to fight until the end of time. The money that the states and other countries are dumping into this waste of time should be spent and could be spent to help people in thier own countries. The soldiers that are over there should be praised and honoured, it is not their will and they are doing the best that they can. Bring our troops home and treat them with the respect and honour that they are do.


Mad Mom
said

Yes, let's find yet another story to blast our soldiers with, cause they don't have enough to deal with on a daily basis!


Ronald in Toronto
said

Let's just say: If, years ago when the Portestants and the Catholics were knocking each other off in Ireland, an Islamic army invaded the Emerald Isle and started killing IRA, Provisionals and anybody else in the line of fire.

Would not the majority of the Irish - faithful and otherwise - do everything they could to oust the Infidels from their midst?

Would they not set aside their internal, religious bickering until the main sources of their discomfort were eliminated?

Such, I submit, is the reality of both Afghanistan and Iraq.

Canadian forces need to get gone. Our religion and our democracy are not even viable concepts in the minds of that population.


Richard in Ontario
said

We have a son who served in Afghanistan, so we support the Troops there 100%. But maybe the time has come to tell the Afghans and Iraqis to fend for themselves and bring our people home..
Just warn the terrorists to not open a can of worms by attacking North American targets or be ready to suffer the consequences.
As long as the War Lords in these countries hold sway over the population we are in a lose, lose situation.. Let's get out, cut foreign aid to these countries and leave them on their own. Hard hearted perhaps but my impression is that they don't want help.









Timothy J St. Catharines
said

why don't they hand over the terrorist cells so we don't have to be there? If a mad bomber is hiding behind your skirt and you get hurt then don't let him hide there. Don't complain that the soldiers are doing there job to help rid your country of radical vermin. Start helping the soldiers that are there to free your country from murderous nutbars and collateral damage will stop. Your to week to help yourself. Your lucky you have help at all.


Ryan Regina
said

I think this report needs to be balanced by comparing what the level of civilian casualties were like before NATO came to Afghanistan. Indiscriminate killing is wrong no matter what but I would bet that under the Taliban there were way more civilian casualties from summary executions, warlord infighting and so forth. So before we condemn NATO let`s get the full picture of what life was like under the Taliban and how many civilians were killed.


Mike B.
said

What steps is President Karzai taking to agressively have his own army and his own police force control his own country?

Why isn't the ANA immediately occupying and providing continual security to the areas that ISAF seize from the Taliban? Seems that ISAF is taking and re-taking some districts again and again in doomed-to-fail COIN operations without immediate insertion of Afghan government forces.

What steps are the Afghan people themselves taking control the Afghan - Pakistan border and to deny the Taliban and other outlaws (the term militant legitimizes them)shelter, food, bullets and women?

And when will Karzai realize the COIN dictum really applies. Once you take it, you keep it, whether ISAF does it or the Afghans do it.

When these things start happening, then airstrikes won't be needed and collateral damage will cease.

ISAF went in to buy Karzai time to get his own government and army in order. Time is running out.




Jim in the kawarthas
said

Whether we like it or not, Afganistan has proven itself to be desirable real estate all through history.
More force will not solve the problem, and our troops are not to blame if these results are generated through command and lack of resources.
This is like policing, and can best be solved with "beat cops" - regulars seen to be "locals".


Sarah...Ottawa
said

I can't believe some of the comments that I'm reading here...so basically the solution would be, since we're not sure who are civilians or insurgents, is to just bomb them all. Or better yet lets just wipe out the country since we can't trust any of them. That would go for women and children as well cuz you'll never know what women are hiding under their burkas and the kids well they're just as evil.
Innocent people are dying everyday but its no big deal because out 10 that would be killed in a day 2 or 3 had to be insurgents and I guess that's all good for everbody!
I understand that Canadian Soldiers are dying out there and its very sad but the answer is not killing innocent people out of fustration.




Paul from Saskatoon
said

Typical: While all detailed polls show overwhelming support for ISAF among Afghans, this report says the opposite.

Remember Iraq? Remember Murtha and crew treating US forces like felons? Remember the British criticizing American forces for being too aggressive?

In the end, the US won in Iraq and has the overwhelming support of the Iraqi people. The British lost Basra, were driven into hiding, and US and Iraqi forces had to retake Basra.

I say more night raids, more hard knocks, more troops, more aggressive action ... but always care to avoid civilian deaths ... unless those "civilians" are the Taliban. Most reports and polls are clear ... the people in that region will back the toughest dog ... it's a matter of survival for them … it’s a centuries old way of life.

And finally, ignore reports like this one that only serve to degrade our resolve and give voice to the self-loathing West haters and America bashers. They need little to get them crowing. Listen instead to those on the ground … our troops. American soldiers got it right in Iraq … our guys will get it right in Afghanistan.




Santa Claus (Captain Ret'd)
said

RCR...I am quite familiar with all of these tactics. I wore my combat boots as one individual mentioned on here. I have served in several overseas missions during my time as an officer (ret'd) in the Canadian Forces.

No, I wasn't a "Grunt" (Much, much respect for them)however, all I'm saying is that those kind of tactics that were used in Vietnam, are similar to theone's they are using here in Afghanistan.

Yes, we have to hit the enemy hard. But befoe we do that, we need the proper intelligence in order to hit them, even if that means going into their villages.

I am very familiar with all of our military assets, including that of our capabilites to fight a war during the night, when our enemy is blinded by darkness.

I like the Canadian approach to gathering intelligence, but actually having open dialogue with the village elders, this way it is way more effective.

By just going into villages at night, without the proper intel and pissing off the Afghan citizens, believe me, they will quickly turn their backs on you and will actually beginto side with the Taliban, at least those who are middle of the line supporters.


Dr J in SK
said

Interesting how a relatively small number of innocent people accidentally killed by NATO is an issue, whereas the much larger number of innocent people deliberately killed by the Taliban isn't...


Ted
said

We don't need to fight their war at all. Leave them to fight the way they want and who they want. Circle the country and let them take care of business themselves. Those that want it will stay those that don't will leave. Why should we as Canadians pay the bill. We have so much war at home. Charity begins at home. Time to leave!


Matthew
said

This conflict will not be won through the use of military force. Canada should have been focusing on improving the infrastructure and opportunities in Afghanistan rather than using our peace keeping force to make peace.
It really is a shame our leaders learned so little from history, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Ironically our leaders ignorantly signed Canada up for an occupation which is the same length of the Soviet one.
The Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is now know as the Soviet Vietnam. Is that the legacy Canada wants?
The Taliban are gaining strength currently, and the Kandahar region is almost totally surrounded by Taliban forces. Air strikes and abusive raids will only lead to anti-coalition sentiments growing in Afghanistan.
We will not win this one ... its time to acknowledge our mistake.


Matt
said

Yes PGF need to do better.
The recommendations are definately where the PGF should be moving towards.

Fortunately the PGF actually want to improve and reduce the negative impacts of their actions on the civilian population.


R D
said

Yeah, sure !! Another "INDEPENDENT" Human Rights Commission. Don't you just love how these commissions slam countries which ALL have democraticly ELECTED governments? They curse us for attacking Taliban while they're sleeping. Yup!! And let's not attack while they're having their lunch or dinner either. They need their vitamins. Were any of these commission members at a ramp ceramony lately? Let me put it mildly. If the Taliban & Al Qaida win over just any part of Afghanistan, they will turn the soccer stadiums, sports fields, AND school yards into execution fields so fast, Karzai won't know what hit him. Women,(teachers, lawyers, doctors,nurses, etc. etc.) and young girls who dare to attend schools or colleges, will be dragged into these stadiums and executed. The Taliban did it before, they'll do it again. And where will these commission members be then? Up in the bleachers with their cameras recording the results of their great report?


A soldier
said

Support the troops ....bring them home.


Lost Cause
said

The war supporters are out here are showing their true colours today.

The typical war-supporter stock response to every report on the war in Afghanistan is "support the troops" and then to go on about helping women and children go to school.

But mention nighttime raids into Afghan households, or civilians being slaughtered at checkpoints or in bombing raids, suddenly the war supporters talk about the Afghan populace as they really view them, as untrustworthy lesser beings at best or terrorists at worst, a populace who needs to be prodded around and told what to do at gunpoint.

War supporters - remember what you're saying in relation to this story today. Those very women and children you claim to care about (and innocent Afghan men, gasp, what a thought) live in the houses you support these raids on. I bet a young Afghan woman would just love to go to one of the schools you endlessly boast about after her dad or brother was taken away or terrorized and abused in the middle of the night by NATO or US troops.

A must-see movie in relation to this issue, by the way, is "Taxi to the Dark Side". It's a documentary that came out last year about an innocent man rounded up in Afghanistan one of these operations who was tortured to death.


US screwing up another war, right on schedule.
said

Soldiers' families should direct their criticism at the politicians who form war policy, not at the people who criticize the corrupt incompetence of the politicians.




Anne M
said

I agree with MRC in London, war is war and we need to fight the war. The first thing we need to do is throw out the Human Rights people. They always have a very slanted view of things, and these cranks always seem to get the attention of the media.


Al
said

If thats the way they feel, then pull out the troops and let them fend for themselves. You cannot win or prevent a war if you can't conduct necessary operations.


Doug BC
said

This is a problem in any war or insurgency.That's why the Taliban hide among the locals.The people of Afghanistan are like hostages taken in any other crime.People for the Taliban to hide behind.
Obviously NATO must do all it can to mitigate the harm done to civilians.But people who use these casualties as an excuse to end the NATO mission should consider some of possible the consequences.
Excessive media hype about the problem will,for one,encourage the Taliban to exploit the issue by imposing even more harm on the local population.
Locals,in spite of their losses and their pain,will have to weigh that against the situation if NATO picks up and goes home.No amount of good will can ever compensate the families of those who have suffered.It is a very traumatic,and personal loss.But the people of Afghanistan do have another option.They can live and suffer at the hands of the Taliban.
I wonder if they even consider the losses suffered by the families of those who "volunteer" to leave the peace of Canada and put their lives in harms way to help them fight for the freedoms they indicate they want.Or,do any of them show up at the airport when our troops salute those who have given their lives on their behalf.
Yes,NATO has to do it's best to keep the people of Afghanistan safe.Surrender to the Taliban,however,is probably the least desirable option on the table.
Well over 1000 "foreign" families are feeling the same pain the Afghanis are feeling.Their sons and daughters are not coming home for Christmas,ever again because the truly believe the people of Afghanistan should have the rights and freedoms that come with some form of democracy.
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS


John S.
said

Well if those village elders would stop harboring terrorists and start cooperating with coalition forces then there would be fewer casualties. If not we're okay with going home and launching nuclear warheads from over sea to protect our country from terrorist attacks. Pick your poison Afghans.


MHB
said

To Dr J in SK: I do not blame you if you think that the number of Afghani civilians killed by our raids is small. I would have thought the same way if I only follow Canadian media!. Actually, I do not recall that a single week passed in the past week without reading about a NATO attack in international mediak on wedding parties killing dozens, bombradment of ordinary workers' gathering, extra. This motivated our ally President Karazai to call for an end to these attacks.


gurbally
said

Western troops will NEVER never be able to win hearts and minds of these people. They are thankless people. You get your soldiers killed to provide them freedom from dictators, and they turn against you.
Look that fella throwing shoes at Bush. Had he done during Saddam's time, he and his family would be dead by now.
And look at this Arab Muslim MLA in Quebec throwing shoes at Bush photo here in Canada. Will he do in the country where he comes from? These people have no decency.



Start cooperating with coalition or get murdered.
said

That's the NATO directive to the Afghan people.

You will accept humanitarian intervention or be slaughtered.




Mike
said

This is a lot more complicated in Afghanistan than just killing the "bad guys". They have very different culture and beliefs. We have to understand this. If NATO wants to achieve any success in Afghanistan they need support of local people.
To gain such support, local economy and social programs need to be supported. Otherwise it's just going to be another Vietnam.




Chris from Kingston
said

Its funny how the mainstream media just glosses over the massive list of the Taliban human rights abuses that we're trying to stop in Afghanistan. Every article is an attempt to smear what NATO troops are doing well overseas. If they do well, its expected, we're Western countries. If NATO screws up, well we might as well disband every Army in the West for making a mistake. This is the same witch-hunt that got rid of the Canadian Airborne Regiment for the acts of a few bad apples.


Lost Cause
said

Chris from Kingston said "Its funny how the mainstream media just glosses over the massive list of the Taliban human rights abuses that we're trying to stop in Afghanistan."

This statement is false.

The media covered the rise of the Taliban.

Everyone in the world saw those Buddha statues go down, and everyone knew about the atrocities committed by the Taliban in those soccer stadiums.

Now the media is covering the atrocities and crimes committed by our side. And because of that, maybe something can be done about these wrongs too.


kc
said

"the US won in Iraq"???

PUHLEEZE....

when do you mistakenly think that happened?!?!

both the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are mired in questionable outcomes and it is inevitable that the civilian populations suffer.

Acknowledging that more could be done to protect and support them is not an indictment of all military activity or of the overall fine quality of the individual soldiers.

Some operations have failed miserably, other have succeeded admirably.

Why is there such resistance to taking any sort of balanced look at military operations?

They are not perfect and they have made some tragic and callous errors.

Conversely, coalition forces are not the enemy of the Afghan people and are always TRYING to do right thing even when they fail.

there is nothing wrong with a little perspective...


Northern Princess
said

Santa Claus writes: "They actually go into the villges, remove their head gear and sit down and talk with the village elders and actually make a connection, one man to the other."

Yes, and they get their heads cracked open from an axe-wielding idiot while at it.

Why don't you have a look at Trevor Greene's video on CTV.ca 'Peace Warrior' to the right of your screen. Maybe then you'd have a better understanding of what kind of 'enemy' all allies are dealing with amongst the Aghanistan's so called 'civilian population'.


walking man
said

One gets so tired, even angry reading about this month after month. Just when is someone going to wake up to the reality that this is a no win situation? The Russians found out the hard way when they were in there, what's taking so long for us to realise that its time to pull out and to hell with them & their society.


Ignorant People shouldn't make comments
said

its pretty comical the lack of knowledge among posters. to think the Canadian strategy is better than the american strategy in afghanistan is completely ignorant as our strategies are pretty much derived from the americans. sitting down with afghans in shuras is a normal occurrence for all forces in afghanistan.

And helping the afghan's infrastructure...etc, is happening with several Provincial Reconstruction Teams all over the country.

You can't paint afghanistan as a whole with the same brush. all the problems that face afghanistan are not faced by all of afghanistan. i think with the increase in american troops you will start seeing ground being held, and we will no longer have to re clear districts like in the past.

as for these night raids, i think people may be mis interpreting this, i don't think it is a common occurance to randomly going through innocent people's homes on a whim every night. i think it is far more selective then that. if a raid is going to take place there is most definately a reason for it, and if there are errors as they do occur, im sure After action reviews AAR's are conducted so mistakes aren't made again.

People please don't be so nieve and ignorant. if you can come up with solution i hope you thinl the military offisials have thought of those same solutions and have either ruled them out or have been implemented.

I don't understand how people can compare one conflict to another. the soviet invasion and vietnam are not even remotely close in comparison to the situation in afghanistan so please dont compare them.

and thats my rant for today.


MONTREAL
said

First of all that is not true that the afghan people don't want the NATO's or Canada's help!!!

I would say 85% of afghans want our help!! Only 15 % don't want us to be there and help, and that 15% consists of the taliban and other criminal groups!

Secondly- the NATO should reduce air strikes, especially since the taliban hide in houses between civilians ! more ground work should be done than air. And night raids should not be reduced, but should be done properly.

Remember we need to win hearts and minds in order to defeat the taliban and al qaida to make this world safe !






Northerner
said

Yes, it is time to leave the country of Afghan. Maybe the AIHRC can provide a better plan. This is a war that will never end. The people of Afghan are not protected by their leaders and their army. We have done what we could and its time to leave and see what takes places. Maybe after NATO has left Canada can send people who find nothing but fault with the efforts of other countries and they can go and set up their homes in these countries. It will do us good to see the complainers put up or shut. We are finding more people in our country who need to move to these countries and see what its all about. The news will only say what is bad --it sells -- the good NATO is doing is never front news.


YA from Toronto
said

From one side to the other … where will the blame stop!

One must wonder who created this situation. It was the UN and NATO nations who empowered Afghans to destroy USSR (Russia) and brought in Taliban/Al-Qaida including Osama Bin Laden (back then US and NATO hero). When the war was over, the UN and NATO members (and yes including CANADA) wasted no effort to even consider what happened to Afghanistan. Were they rotting in USSR (Russian) brought destruction, do they even have a rotten boot to boil for supper! Nope, we simply closed our eyes and ears and forgot that they even exists, until they bit back.

Years of neglect and US/NATO weapons in hands of total illiterate what do you think was going to happen? Don’t blame Afghans, if there is anyone to blame look in the mirror.

First UN/NATO forces created this situation then they cry out load as their ass is being bitten. Now you blame Afghans for their problem and you believe you are the savior. It is either a morons view or total war-loving killers view. You decide.

If UN/NATO is going to win this war, love the people of Afghan and bring back the trust they’ve rightly lost. Continue to do what you are doing right now, well you could be there for next century or more you will not succeed. Mark my word….


Joachim
said

A new Vietnam is taking shape. Better bring the boys back home as quick as possible! This war is all about oil, don't forget this! One of the first acts the puppet gouverment placed by the US signed was a pipeline construction contract for Halliburton! Ex CEO of Halliburton was US vice-president Dick Cheney!


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