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Think the economy was bad in 2008? Wait until 2009

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The Canadian Press

Date: Monday Dec. 22, 2008 3:16 PM ET

OTTAWA — It's going to get worse.

As bad as the past few months were, even the rosiest of economic forecasts shows on average Canadians will get poorer in 2009, and many -- perhaps as many as 200,000 additional workers -- will lose their jobs as the economic recession deepens.

The economic tsunami that was well below the surface as 2008 began hit Canada's shores with a crash in the fall and is only now washing deeper inshore swallowing an economy that once appeared impregnable -- having withstood both the Asian financial crisis a decade ago and the 9-11 fallout in the United States.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper described it best in a recent television interview in which he perhaps tellingly did not reject out of hand the possibility of a depression -- a deep economic downturn in which output shrinks by 10 per cent or more.

"I've never seen such uncertainty ... I'm very worried about the Canadian economy," he said, before explaining that governments had learned survival lessons from the 1930s depression that they are applying to the current situation.

But as Merrill Lynch's Canadian chief economist David Wolf put it: "Given the events of the past few months how can you rule anything out? Even us bears have been surprised at just how aggressively things have unravelled."

A key lesson of the Great Depression -- and a reason economists believe the damage can be contained shy of D-terrain -- is that governments must not sit idly by as the cancer spreads.

The U.S., Europe, China and others have already stepped to the plate with Ruthian stimulus packages worth trillions of dollars in total, and Harper has suggested spending measures in the $20-billion range are being prepared for the Jan. 27 budget, at a price of a huge deficit.

As well, Ottawa and Ontario announced Saturday that $4 billion will go into jump-starting the battered Canadian auto sector, with more likely to come as part of a North American industry restructuring.

The measures aren't necessarily going to be popular with Canadians, although they are likely a minimum condition for preventing a Liberal-NDP coalition, with the backing of the Bloc Quebecois, from seeking to dump the government once Parliament resumes in late January.

A Canadian Press Harris/Decima poll conducted in mid-month found only 39 per cent support for stimulus spending if it means Ottawa will go into deficit.

For policy makers, the deficit ship has long since sailed.

Even sober-minded economists don't see much to shout about in keeping government books in the black if it means the rest of the country sinks. If everyone else is too scared to spend their last dime, governments had better, they reason.

"Unfortunately it's necessary. Things could be very ugly if policy makers don't step in to support the economy, in certain cases specific industries," said Bank of Montreal deputy chief economist Douglas Porter.

"It's still going to be the weakest year since `91," agreed Dale Orr, managing director of IHS Global Insight. "The second half will be better than the first, thank goodness, but we'll need another year after that before we're back to the economy returning to potential."

Orr's analysis is shared almost universally among private sector economists, who have been busily revising even their bleakest forecasts in the past few weeks.

Last week, the Bank of Nova Scotia set the standard for low with a projection that the economy would shrink 1.2 per cent in 2009. A day later the Bank of Montreal did it one notch better at minus 1.3 per cent.

The shocker, however, is that most expect a seldom considered statistic called nominal gross domestic product -- which measures the value of what the country produces -- to become headline news next year as the wealth-effect of high commodity prices over the last six years gets reversed big time with oil in the tank and prices of minerals, grains, coal and other commodities also in decline.

Many are expecting nominal GDP to shrink by as much as three per cent in 2009, bringing lower corporate profits, lower government revenues and most importantly, lower wages for Canadians.

"That's a shrinking of the economic pie the likes of which we really haven't seen for generations," said Wolf.

The latest projections also predict Canada's unemployment rate will rise to about eight per cent, from the current 6.3 per cent, resulting in something Canadians also haven't seen in a generation, outright job losses of 200,000 from the recession's peak to trough.

While the jobless rise in 2009 will hurt, it's still a far cry from the last two recessions. Unemployment hit 13 per cent in the 1980-81 decline, when industrial North America -- mainly the steel and auto sectors -- went through a painful restructuring. In the early 1990s the recession hurt real estate and retail sectors and pushed the jobless rate to 10 per cent.

How do we get ourselves out of this mess?

A recovery is coming, economists say, and it's likely from a combination of several factors.

Surely some good must come from the trillions of dollars being poured into the economy from governments around the world, they figure.

The other bright spot -- although it's cold comfort to Canada's oilpatch -- comes from cheap oil, which will cut business costs and leave more money in the pockets of consumers around the world.

And then there's that fickle measure called consumer confidence, which has been dining on despair for months and sits at its lowest level in more than a quarter century.

Orr believes much of the loss of trust and confidence among investors and consumers stems from global markets' stomach-churning bungee jump since mid-September.

In Canada, the stock market has lost more than 40 per cent of its value since a mid-June record high, wiping out hundreds of billions of dollars of stock value and squeezing the investments of Canadians held in pension plans, stocks and mutual funds. That has made people feel poorer and tighten their wallets and companies from cutting investments and expansion plans.

"Everybody is gloom and doom now, but things could turn around quickly," Orr says. "Everybody is now waiting for confirmation we're at the bottom and if you can get a week or two of really strong markets, there will be a piling on phenomenon and people won't be able to wait to get back in."

But as he hurries to add, it might not be wise to bank on it happening in 2009.

Comments are now closed for this story

Al
said

If a dificit is what it takes to put us back on track then I'm all for it. The Liberals so called surpluses were attained on the backs of workers. They robbed us with the Employment Insurance premiums and also stole some 30 billion dollars of surplus money from the Canadian Forces and RCMP pension funds and have no intention of paying it back. Why would any retired military or even serving military vote Liberal?


Lee in Ontario
said

I think that there is a real positive to come out of this, everyone I have talked too are much more excited about spending the holidays with family and friends and enjoying their company. As the Bank of Canada says, we will get out of this, but in the mean time we should take a mintue to get back to what is important, Family and Friends!!! Happy Holidays.


Wonderful!
said

What a way to start a New Year with all these bad news!

Isn't there any good and exciting news out there! It sure is depressing - being poor in a cold country!

Well, since we will be suffering, why can't be all be poor in a warm environment - like being a "LOSER" in Hawaii rather in Canada!

What do you say?



Roger T
said

This is OLD NEWS, the recession did already hit us back in 2007 but our Gov't keeps trying to put on a face to show the world that our country seems some how the best of the best.

Sometime TRYING TO SAVE FACE IN TROUBLE TIMES IS ONLY MAKING A FOOL OF ONESELF WHEN THE TRUTH IS UNVEILED!

BUT THAN AGAIN, EVEN A LEADER NEEDS TO STUMBLE AND PUTS HIM/HERSELF IN A GRADE 3 CLASS TO LEARN AGAIN CAUSE THE BAD LESSONS LEARNED IN UNIVERSITY IS NOT ENOUGH TO HELP DRAFT THE RIGHT SPEECH OR NAKE THE DECISIONS FOR THE MASSES!


lowell
said

As I recall there was quite a bit of despair and gloom after 9/11 occurred, also resulting in huge losses in the equity markets. We recovered from that relatively quickly. I think the consumer confidence thing will largely be affected by the man at the top. Leadership will play a large role and as Obama takes over the reins from a non functioning president, it will instill confidence in not only Americans but in other coutnries as well, especially Canada who have strong economic ties. Unfortunately, our prime minister has frittered away some time in taking viable steps with the nebulous economic update and putting parliament on hold. Leadership does not include protecting your job at the expense of others. Although the prime minister's latest move with the economic advisory committee, even though it is an idea taken from the liberals, is a step in the right direction. We do need plenty of input from industry leaders and experts on coming up with a solution that will stmulate and get the econmic engine going again in Canada.


James
said

As bad as this article says it will get, it will be worse! Everybody needs a bailout and there is not enough money for that. The only way to restart the economy is to forgive all debt and start fresh with much stricter credit and loan rules.


Ontarian Lookin' West
said

The economic downturn is a world problem that can't be stopped. PM Harper has helped Canadians by cutting taxes so we have more in our pockets. Harper cannot be blamed for the policys of other countrys, that caused all this. I think that there will be a huge population boom in the west, far beyond what we've seen over the past few years. After doing some research...Manitoba and Saskatchewan are the best set up to weather this storm, and their economys are very diverse. Alberta and BC are provinces that will always have people moving to them. I fear that if the coalition or Liberals take power in the next election, there will be tax hikes once again to try and save social programs that this country cannot afford at this time. I think I am only one, of thousands, that will be leaving Ontario and heading west. It seems their governments actually know how to run a provice....unlike one Mr. McGuinty. Get ready out west...here we come...


Chat
said

Over the last couple of weeks, I was amazed at the ignorance of some who sent comments about how thrilled they are that the oil price drops will hit the Middle East and Russia. It will hit us real bad too. Some people listen to the US media and think that we face the same situation. Our interests are totally different from those of Americans when it comes to oil prices. It is high time Canadians understood that!


Positive not negative!
said

Will all your optimistic comments how can you have a bad year in 2009?

Try to focus on solutions and not to see everything in a nagative way, it could help a bit!


Chuck
said

I believe that everything will be worse off than their worst case scenario. We all have to prepare for things to get a whole lot worse. "Stay close to friends and family when times get rough"


Mark M
said

No problem here with a deficit either, as long as it's properly managed. Times are bad so you do what you have too to soften the blow. I don't believe in pumping money into failing industries thought (auto for example), this deficit should be operational only as governments should not be raking in HUGE surpluses. So when things happen that are not expected a small deficit is fine. Deficits in good times should be completely outlawed!


Melissa
said

Nothing stays bad forever.
A couple of ppl lost their jobs at my workplace. I've been keeping my fingers crossed that I can maintain my employment.
However, in the past few months I've noticed so many other important things in life, like family, friends and health.

Things could always be a lot worse, and there are countries out there that have it worse.


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said

When all is said and done NOBODY HAS A FREAKING CLUE what is coming over the hill in 2009... but I am guessing it's not going to be good news for Canada. We have been blind-sided by EVERYTHING for the last 6 months.


David in Ottawa
said

Despite what people have voted for, Canada is finally cutting its greanhouses gas output due to the slowdown.

Thats at least positive.



Dennis
said

I am really glad that we have a desisive leader that will act, but not overreact. Only bad thing is that the companies that produce goods and will recieve assistance still have to have a buyer for their product so in the end it is all up to the consumer.


Are skiing and hot-tubbing necessities?
said

I quit a job about a month ago and have worked a couple of shifts (so far) at my new one. The skiers and snowboarders I serve here in B.C. don't look all that gloomy.
Is the recession only going to affect half of the people? Will Canadians who enjoy all kinds of luxuries throw a $20.00 onto the pile for the people that have lost their jobs?


André in St Catharines, Ont.
said

This just goes to show how Harper & his is cabinet fell asleep at the switch & also lied to all Canadians during the election about the shape Canada was in. When his gang took over they had a large surplus & what did they do??? They spent all away & now we're headed into deficit. The people out there that keep supporting this group are just incredible. You believe everything that this group is saying. For all of you I have some land for you in Florida for sale. What poor leadership & position this government has put this great country in. Memories of what Mulroney that created a large deficit mess. Now that many Canadians need money & the cupboard are bare. Thanks for nothing Harper.


Half Full
said

You know, from what I gather, there is a lot of 'doom and gloom' and not enough positive outlook.

I think we all should look at the glass a shalf full for a bit and come up with solutions...You know my grandmother grew up on the depression, and I didnt hear anything from her about EVERYONE crying the sky is falling.
Instead them and their neighbors got together and really formed a community, HELPING one another out when they could. They got through it...sure it was tough, but they did it, and so can we....c'mon, try to be a bit more positive..


Dean
said

Why not tell everyone that the world is ending tomorrow. The media seems bent on having a recession and continues to tell us at every moment. While it may be true to an extent, if everyone remains calm and does what they normally do, (consume), whatever slowdown we have will most likely be offset somewhat by the spending.


Earthling
said

Cut taxes and fund it by Senate and MP lay-offs.


Roger T
said

KJ in Kingston Ontario
When all is said and done NOBODY HAS A FREAKING CLUE what is coming over the hill in 2009... but I am guessing it's not going to be good news for Canada. We have been blind-sided by EVERYTHING for the last 6 months......

Not everyone was blind-sided, it was our Gov't who refused to face the reality cause Canada needs to show the world that we have everything but really nothing to show in the end. Our Gov't's lack of responsibility only shows the world that we really have nothing to offer the world except raw materials, what good is it when no one needs it!

Only when our Gov't reconizes Canada's internal problems and keeps a distant from other nations internal affairs will our politcial leaders see clearly.

Sometimes trying to save face is only showing the losing side.




Cambob
said

Why is this happening?
1. The economic value of war is not the making of bullets, but the rebuilding of cities. America has not gotten "value" for it's war in Iraq. 5 Trillion dollar debt.
2. The economic power of China is 74% outward. Thier own people are slowly gaining wealth, but thier buying power is still controlled by a corrupt and secretive government.
3. Oil spike. Fuel increased 55% within a 6 month period. The global market could not find a balance within the spike and began sharp cutbacks in thier spending. Since fuel touches every aspect of modern society, 'every aspect' was cut back.
4. A 15 year orgy of Western societies credit spending without reasonable safeguards. Enhanced after 9/11 with the 0% interest factor. (0% interest = no growth)

How do we fix it?
1. Pay debt.
2. Spend within our means.
3. Stop blaming others for our cummlative greed.


Brent
said

Deficit spending delays the inevitable. It's a political move, not an economic one...there's not one example of a successful "spend your way out of a recession" anywhere on the globe in the past 20yrs. Giving taxpayer money to bankrupt companies will do nothing when consumers still won't buy their products.


Ray Jacques, Glen Robertson, ON
said

To Al,
When the Liberals came into power from Kim Campbell's lost election, the defecit was $ 44 billion / year.

Something had to be done about that defecit, With good planning and time, the Liberals got rid of it and brought us into surplusses. This liberated more dollars for programms instead of paying interest.

Everybody took a hit. it was necessary. it was good government in action.

Mr. Harper has virtually copied the Liberal plan to rebuild the military; same for the tax cuts which were identical to Paul Martin's, but was defeated prior to bing able to inpliment them.

Why would't you or anyone vote for a sound Liberal government ? Look at what little the Conservatives offerwed ?

In the last campaign, Mr, Harper wanted to unwisely cut social programs (cost him a majority in Quebec); offered to cut diesel tax
$ 0.02/liter (WOW); Qanted to jail 14 year-0lds as adults (add your own expletive(s) here !)

Otherwise, Mr. Harper had no policies or vision to offer Canadians

Mr. Harper is not competent nor is he a good leader (as he claims to be).

I remember in the Campaign where Mr. Harper defeated Paul Martin:- One of Mr. Harper's complaints about Paul Matrin was that he was jggling 50 or 60 poliies all at the same time (like that was a bad thing). Mr Harper went on to promoise 5 things, amongst them the 1% then 2# cut in the GST (not recommended by any economist as being a good thing to do !), and then, according to the Canadian Press, only delivered 50% of those promises (WOW !!)

Voting Liberal this time would be a good choice for having sound centrists policies that resonant with a majority Canadians - some 62% + pervent in the last election did not vote for the Right-Wing Conservatives.


Reece
said

" The Liberals so called surpluses were attained on the backs of workers."

When your credit card is maxed out, do you go shopping with it? Apparently your logic is that you do and that kind of thinking is in fact shared by the conservatives. Billions was collected to pay down the debt so that we don't have to blow our budget on servicing the debt through billions in interest. But don't you worry your head over it, because the conservatives are blowing our money to new highs...however deep we cut into that debt is all lost in mere minutes of conservative rule.

BTW, lack of debt = soverignty & self-determination; the Americans owe foreign gov'ts $1 TRILLION - which explains why those gov'ts are buying American ports, banks & infastrature. The Americans are becoming tenants in their own homes.

Maybe in the next election the conservatives could cut the GST even deeper and maybe we'll reach 3rd world status even faster? No, I don't understand you guys at all and hope I never do.


2009 the market will pick up then then economy
said

The effects of the credit crisis which was foisted on us by the USA came suddenly in ways we had not anticipated yet prepared for.

The stock markets are beginning to show some signs of life which suggest the end is in 2009 and we can count ourselves lucky because it could have been much worse. Fortunately our economy is strong and is diversifying which will bode well for future recessions as they come.




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