CTV News | Harper, McGuinty announce $4B auto bailout package

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Harper, McGuinty announce $4B auto bailout package

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CTV News Video

CTV News: Rosermary Thompson on the conditions
CTV National News: Craig Oliver on the multi-billion dollar bailout for Canada's fragile auto sector
CTV Newsnet: Ontario NDP Leader Howard Hampton on what he expects to come from the loan
CTV Newsnet: Dennis DesRosiers, DesRosiers Automotive Consultants Inc., on how much time the bailout buys
CTV Toronto: Zuraidah Alman with reaction on the effectiveness of the package
CTV Winnipeg: Incentives to buy green cars likely: analyst
CTV Newsnet: Eddie Francis, Mayor of Windsor
CTV Newsnet: Barry Prentice, University of Manitoba, on Canada's auto bailout and whether or not it's enough
CTV Newsnet: David Paterson, General Motors Canada, on the auto bailout announcement
CTV Newsnet: Ken Lewenza, CAW president
CTV Newsnet: Harper lays out the Canadian plan
CTV Newsnet: Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty on the importance of the province's auto industry
CTV Newsnet: Rosemary Thompson on what the bailout likely means for the future of the auto industry in Canada
CTV Newsnet: Former CAW President Buzz Hargrove states his concerns with the plan
CTV Newsnet: Oshawa Mayor John Gray on how a bailout will help save his fledgling town

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Sat. Dec. 20 2008 8:55 PM ET

Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty have announced a $4-billion aid package for Canada's struggling auto industry.

They said Canada's bailout, which they called a "short term loan," is proportionate to the Detroit Three's Canadian operations, which are estimated to be about 20 per cent of North American production.

The two leaders announced the package on Saturday morning at a joint press conference in Toronto.

Ontario will contribute about $1.3 billion to the package and Ottawa will provide $2.7 billion.

Harper told reporters the aid package "is not a blank cheque" and that he wants to see the car companies and their unions work together to restructure their operations.

"All stakeholders are going have to be part of the solution," Harper said.

The aid package will also:

  • give loan access to auto-parts manufacturers and other businesses that are part of the auto supply industry
  • give additional credit to consumers

GM and Chrysler had said they need credit and loans as they restructure their companies.

Meanwhile, Ford has said it does not need immediate help, but had asked for a line of credit.

Harper said the aid package was part of a "holistic approach" to save an industry that helps provide hundreds of thousands of jobs to Canadians.

He said governments need to act, especially in the wake of the financial sector economic crisis. The auto industry has been particularly hard hit by the credit crunch, which affected their consumers' access to loans.

An auto industry failure would have ripple affects well beyond Ontario, the centre of Canada's car manufacturing sector, Harper said.

"This is a huge problem that faces the Ontario economy and the Canadian economy by extension and it is critical that we work together," he said.

McGuinty said the economic crisis has created the need for bold action.

"These are extraordinary circumstances that require extraordinary measures," he said.

Today's announcement came on the heels of the proposed US$17.4 billion in aid to automakers that U.S. President George Bush announced on Friday.

Ontario NDP leader Howard Hampton said the loan package should suffice for now, but it would have been more useful had it been handed down earlier.

As credit has tightened, it has become harder for every part of the industry to function, said Hampton.

He added that everyone from buyers to car dealers, to the automakers themselves, need access to credit in order to keep the industry running.

"We saw that happening weeks ago," he said.

If the money had been handed down at that time, "it would have made an even bigger difference," Hampton said.

Auto industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers estimated that the combined loan packages from Canada and the U.S. would help keep the struggling North American automakers afloat only for the next quarter or so.

"It probably only buys them three months or four months where they can get their ducks in order ... and hopefully come up with a plan to get everything straightened out so that they can survive," he told CTV Newsnet on Saturday evening.

GM Canada spokesperson David Paterson said the Canadian response will provide a "great sigh of relief" across the industry, noting that the loans will help his company complete a transition it began in 2005. He said GM is moving towards creating more energy efficient cars, including hybrids and electric vehicles.

Paterson added that the bailouts show a "great signal of stability" for the industry.

$70 per hour?

Canadian Auto Workers president Ken Lewenza told CTV Newsnet the aid package is good for Ontario and the country.

He said he's pleased that the bailout includes commitments by the car makers about Canada's production share.

"I think the commitment of maintaining the production share in Canada at the existing level is a fairly good commitment," Lewenza.

"As long as we maintain our share in the Canadian market, which is part of this loan, I think we'll be part of the future investment and will continue to work with the

companies."

Paterson indicated that GM's plans are to continue production at the current level.

"Our plans for Canada right at the moment are to see us continue on at that (20 per cent) level, and this type of support, as we work out the details, will give us the ability to continue on roughly at that level," he said.

Meanwhile, Lewenza took issue with critics of union auto workers who have said they make too much money -- some quoting the questionable figure of more than $70 per hour, which has never applied to Canadian workers and has been debunked by some industry analysts.

He said "that based on our productivity" Canadian workers are as competitive as -- and more efficient than -- any other North American and foreign car producers.

"It's a little bit frustrating to concentrate on workers," he said.

He also reminded critics that only three months ago, Canadian unions had worked out a collective agreement that included wage freezes, and holiday and other concessions to help the auto companies.

He said he wants Ottawa to "concentrate on the root cause of the problem. We still think the root cause of the problem is unfair trade," he said.

Buzz Hargrove, former CAW president, called the Canadian aid package "good news for their workers and their families."

But he also said he was concerned that Harper told reporters that "everyone" will have to make concessions.

"Labour costs are not the problem," he told CTV Newsnet.

But Hargrove noted that the current union leadership will have to decide how to proceed to help make the Canadian auto industry economically viable in the years ahead.

Eddie Francis, the mayor of Windsor, Ont., which has been home to GM, Chrysler, and Ford plants, said, "There will be job losses ... it's something that is going to happen."

But he added, it's better to have some job losses rather than "not having the industry at all."

DesRosiers said it was inevitable that the unions would have to make concessions, no matter how painful they might be.

"If they don't make serious concessions, then GM, Ford and Chrysler will continue to lose market share and they'll lose their jobs anyway," he said.

He said it is likely unions will be asked to make concessions on selected perk benefits -- such as selected, non-holiday, paid absences and access to a legal defense fund -- before they are asked to take any wage cuts.


Comments are now closed for this story

Ontario man
said

Business as usual....


Glen
said

This would be the start of the slippery slope of government support for private industry. Industries need to find their levels on their own, not with the help of the taxpayers.

Tom
said

A while back the government indicated that they would require a firm restructuring plan before approving any bailout package. Now they have approved these massive taxpayers funded loans with still no plan and no consessions from the Can UAWU. Most other businesses have to produce a viable business plan before a loan is approved. Oh yes this is "life support" before billions more are dolled out for "restructuring" Not impressed at all.

Socialist Harper blowing more taxpayer money
said

on his corporate cronies.

Cambob
said

"labour costs are not the problem"

Well if the companies go bankrupt, there won't any labour costs. So maybe when this idiot realizes the union is part of the problem, maybe they can be part of the solution.


Nostradamn
said

Labour IS the problem as well as making cars no one wants. They have forced big cars on the market only to be beat by the Asian companies. They say open the markets so they can sell what they make over seas but the population over there don't want the big cars either.
The fish stinks from the head down and I'm talking about both the union heads and CEO's of the auto industry. ALL FAT CATS.


Jeremy from Kitchener
said

Maybe American companies should start making reliable, economical vehicles. It is sick that the government has to bail them out, the writing was on the wall years ago. American automakers have been lax and not innovators like the Japanese and German automakers and listening to what the consumer wants, and have lost sales to the Japanese, and it is not the government's job to help them out.


Gord in Regina Sask
said

Harper is doing nothing more than appeasing to the voters of Ontario. It is dangerous to shell out this kind of money when we have yet to hear what the Big 3's plans are to get both feet back on the ground. Not a smart move.


diane m.
said

remember-this is not a wholly conservative idea.ALL parties support a bail-out.(at least they did yesterday


John
said

You can blame most of the bailout on the 3 opposition parties. This would not have happened if the Cons had a majority. Also , Buzz has his head somewhere smelly if he doesn't realize labour is most of the problem.Wages are completly rediculous at the big three. How long will this cash last before they " Must " have more and how many more industries line up at the trough


Wes
said

Now check this out, right now we have billions of dollars given to those big 3 and the next thing you know, in about a few years, maybe longer, they could run out of cash again. They pay their employees to much money, they make more cars that they can sell. They keep going to this road. Eventually, it doesn't matter how much you give them, the big 3 will collapse. I understand that they made progress on their cars in regards of fuel economy and etc: but they still fall short of credibility, reliability and accountibility of their cars. They lost value like crazy compared to Japanese and german cars. In overall they still need some improvement if they want to compete with the other brand. The car and reader digest: best and worse of this year says it all.


Natasha
said

Well if "hand ups" (outs) are occuring how about forgiving some student loans thereby allowing those students who have full time jobs to allocate the funds back in to the market thereby contributing via consumerism instead of paying 300 a month paying off interest that could back into the market. Oh I forgot it is a free market until companies need bail outs but not the everyday person we have to make it or break it-- funny how approach to market is modified when corporations need it not individual Canadians


Doug
said

I hope the new and improved Harper doesn't disappear again when parliament reconvines. Now if we can get the unions to step up to the plate.


John Taxpayer
said

Prior to the economic fallout, the "Big 3" were in compromising positions. The leadership team at said "Big 3" are blameworthy for complacency and allowing the bullying of the union negotiated wages/benefits (...and don't forget the golden handshake). Buzz Hargrove iterated that only 7% of a vehicles cost is wages, however he conveniently forgot to mention the fat pension monies which contribute an additional 7-10% of the cost of a Canadian made, CAW supported vehicle. There's all of the talk of the myriad jobs that may be lost if these companies were to collapse. Why have we forgotten about the hi-tech sector which lost 10's of thousands of jobs, the forestry industry which is suffering??? A significant concession ($100000 "golden handshake" to unskilled labour has to go) HAS to be made by the union as well as a well planned execution by the leadership teams at these companies. Will that be enough? Best of luck......and good luck to the Ontario and federal taxpayers. There will be a knock on the door come March 31/09, you can count on it!!


Jack01
said

Why?

All they are going to do is race through the money; everyone will get bonuses; no-one will take pay cuts (executives or union members); it will get them through Christmas and then what will happen from January to December 2009?

There is no talk of re-structuring, amalgamating the three companies or anything.

Doesn't "Canada" get a say on where, when and how much money we are willing to pay these companies? Where is the copy of their proposals for us to see and make them accountable, on what they plan to do with the money?
Employees, move, get another job before it's too late. Think yourselves and your families, not the "Big Three". Do you think the "Big Three" care about their employees?


Canada Goose Whistler
said

Great news! Please Santa give Mr Harper & all the conservative voters a calculator & brains for Christmas.
I'm buying a new truck today, it will be a foreign one but not one of the 3 bankrupt foreign truck manufactures.


roy
said

where are mr Layton and the Liberals now for not chewing out the Prime Minister for following the US,seems thats all there any good for.


JWM
said

All I can say is the Government better bail everybody out now because they are the ones that still can't buy cars.

PS - CAW's you better think hard a fast about your commitment to gaining access to Cdn tax dollars. Assembling cars for $35/hr give me a break. Skilled labour? LMAO

I sincerely hope you screw it up for your members.


Detroit 3 supplier
said

Labour not the problem????, still stuck in neutral the CAW

These workers need to buy excessive brand new toys every year instead of settling for used.

Meanwhile the parts suppliers are going bankrupt due to price reductions we are forced by the Detroit 3.

I believe the unions continue to get wage increases every year while non for parts suppliers.


Stanislaw Dzudsjak
said

I am thankful to those in Ottawa and Queen's Park for making this loan to our now struggling automotive industry. This time around, the automotive manufacturers are only partly responsible for their demise. It is the subprime mortgage industry and the inherent greed of Wall Street that initiated this abyss that, consequently, is harming every aspect of commerce. Thank God that Prime Minister Harper and Premier McGuinty are forcing the automobile industry to get the unions into line. For too long, the UAW and CAW have had a monopoly on labour; they would use the coercive power of striking to get what they wanted ... just like a 2 year old baby. The unions have to be busted or at least drastically curtailed.


Bruce in London
said

The ball is now in the CAW court.Will they play or not?
There is probably enough fat in the work rules area to make thier Companies more productive without having to reduce thier hourly wage.This of course would protect jobs going forward.
One thing Canadians will not stand for is the protection of all CAW benefits at the expense of tax payers who make less than these Union members.
Over to you Ken!!


Jason
said

No doubt the big three have to change and possibly be left to go under but this money will soften the blow and may ease them into bankruptcy and the 582,000 job loss in Canada won't happen all at once, but over time. This would be better for Canada this way.
(I WAS a auto parts supplier and lost my job last May as our Plant was moved to Quebec)


John from Oshawa
said

Ford says it has enough money for now. Chrysler is owned by a private hedge fund, they should not get any money, they should pump their own money into their investment. GM needs to close down most of it's division, it makes too many cars, too many of the same car with different badges. They should only keep Chevy, Cadillac and GMS heavy truck, everything else, Saturn, Pontiac, Buick, Hummer, Saab (should be sold off) This way they would be more lick the japanese makers with a main + luxury division. It needs to be done.


If the "Big3" go out of business,
said

I won't be able to buy their cars.

Okay, I'm over it.

Let's move on -- without the "Big3."

JRH from LA
said

Cambob
You hit the nail on the head! I can't believe this idiot thinks that labor costs are not a huge part of the the Big 3's problems. When uneducated workers that turn a bolt in a car all day earn $70/hour with benefits, that's not overpaid? I guess I have to remember that unions never think their workers are overpaid! Just think; if the autoworkers would take a $1/hour paycut (assuming normal 40 hour work weeks)times the 500,000 workers, the automakers would save over $900 million a year! Considering the bailout package is $4 billion, the labor costs are obviously not a part of the problem?! Give me a break! In select cases, unions are organizations that hold back economic growth! Just look at Quebec's sputtering economy!


Labor costs are not the problem.
said

Bad management is the problem.

Harper joins the SOCIALISTS to solve the problem.

Brian
said

Well, I wasn't looking to have a second vehicle loan, but I do now. Sigh.... At least I'll never get to drive it. lol.

DC in AB
said

The CAW and the UAWU are contributing greatly to the collapse of the auto sector in North America. If the unions will not make concessions, then lay off 100% of the unionized employees and hire them back... sans union. Unions breed mediocricy and too high salaries in a lot of cases. You can't tell me that a guy with a grade 10 education who works on an assembly line is worth $80,000 a year plus another $40,000 in equivalent benefits, while a very educated (7 years of univeristy, two degrees, engineer) person like myself makes much less. Time for a wage roll back now... before its too late for the unions to help out and everyone is out of work.


Gord
said

Normally, a trip to the Barber is painless. This time it'll be the mother of all trims and very painful to all stakeholders. But also, opportunity knocks for those who are not going to be recalled. Enroll in a community college or night school and work on a re invention of ways to earn a living. And I as a taxpayer who is financing this bailout. I don't want to be abused by a return to the bad old ways of doing business that led to all of this and I don't want a return to a failed business model. By the end of March, if the Detroit 3 hasn't shaped up, then it'll be time for some tough love. Compete or perish. No more bailouts


Harper cracks and crawls. Good socialist, Harper.
said

Good socialist.


$4 Billion for nothing I don't think so
said

No Buzz Labour costs are the problem. Unfortunately they are not the only problem. However with some corporate restructuring and a 25% pay cut to everyone from the CEO on down to the person sweeping the floor. The big three might just survive this. Just remember 75% of a Automakers paycheck is still better than most workers get paid and is definately alot better than no paycheck at all.
Bottom line in all of this is, if management and the union aren't willing to make concessions then pull the funding and let them starve.


Doug in Dartmouth
said

If I am reading this correctly, this is a short term loan. Loans are repaid. I don't necessarily agree with Fed. and Prov. governments being in the banking business, but they are where Companies are too risky for conventional lenders. Take ACOA, for example. But before crapping on this deal, one needs to know the conditions of the loan.


Alan
said

Common sense prevails. At the same time the expectation will be that the industry will have to change right down through the multi dealership system. Now if the banks can free up some credit. Let's get on with it.


PeterS
said

To those who consider these loans nothing but a "corporate bailout", have you considered the devistating impact upon the Canadian economy as a whole if thousands of auto workers were to become unemployed. This would impact not only the auto makers, but also the auto parts sector, the local grocers, the entertainment sector and on and on because of the ripple effect of less disposable income in the system. Also, think of the "hit" the EI fund would take and the reduced income tax revenue the government would have to absorb. It is one of these unprecidented situations where the government has to hold its nose as the loans are given out! But really Buzz, change does has to take place throughout the sector, and this does include labour.


Mark
said

These union guys are something else. They should all be happy to still have a cheque. Without tax payers help the car companies would go under and there would be nothing to restructure. Hargrove, labor costs are most certainly a component of the problem, so is the fact that that the car companies build mostly crappy cheap cars and gas guzzling trucks that the majority of people do not want.

The Unions rhetoric will soon lead to concessions because all of this money is just a drop in the bucket as to what the car companies will require over the next 18 months. Two months from now they will need more bailout money and unless the US and Canadian governments see everyone cooperating with restructuring there will be no money just Bankruptcy and no more overpaid jobs.

Either way Chrysler will likely be toast and swallowed up by GM and or Ford.

Good for Ford for the time being lasting it out without requiring bailout money.


Dane
said

Thanks Mcguinty and you too Harper, you just took $133.33
out of mine and every other Canadians pocket today.


Overseas Taxpayer
said

Not a good idea..hey, maybe the unions can afford to give themselves another raise..maybe $80 per hour and a paid break every 10 minutes..big unions are the problem, hey Buzz! tell Canadians to vote for the Bloc....


Samual
said

70. per hr X 160hrs/month = 11,200 X 400,000 people = $4,480,000,000.00 per month
The money is gone in a month how are we going to get it back?


I buy Japanese cars. I don't buy junkmobiles.
said

And I don't want my tax money spent so Harper can buy votes in Ontario.


Gilbert, Quesnel, BC
said

So Ontario (and most likely Quebec) get their money for the auto industry, where's the money for the BC forest industry?

Dane
said

This isn't going to do anything to stop the recession, so why are we doing it, and I thought we already disproved keynesian economics, I guess it's back to the spend, spend, spend era.


MD
said

There are so many things wrong with this I cannot begin to count them. The next step will be for Obama to come up with an even larger bailout when the D3 come back for more as they will. At that point we will see the Democratic President and the Democratic Congress insist on only American content in these automobiles. We will then see the D3, over time, stop manufacturing in Canada. Bye Bye 4 Billion Dollars, Bye Bye CAW.

I've voted Conservative most of my life but I think it will be a spoiled ballot next time.


RCR in Ontario
said

It's going to be tough for the Union bosses to recommend after this, that members vote for Jack Layton, Howard Hampton, or anyone else in the NDP, after McGuinty Liberal and Harper Conservative give this bail out to the Big 3. Although having watched and listened to Layton, it won't surprise me that he will say this was all the NDP's idea in the first place...


Brad
said

I do not understand this at all. If cars are not selling then what will the auto companies do, start piling them up in their parking lots, or pay the workers to twiddle their thumbs? If the government wants the industry to get back on track then it should buy all of us a car.


davey boy
said

I guess the more money you contribute to the political parties. The more taxpayers dollars you can pull out from Ottawa. You started out right but now your going down the wrong path for governing and it will come back to bite you. Throwing money at the pig 3 is wrong. If any of that money goes to bonuses or to buy out employees. There will be a huge backlash on the government not the opposition parties but the government making the final decision. In 3 month's the pig 3 will be coming back crying poor us. we haven't had enough time to re-negotiate. what with everyone taking their spa day's we couldn't get together for a productive meeting could we have another 4 billion. If not we'll spread more lies and fear. So we can rob the tax payers of more of their hard earned money.


Reece
said

I've posted a comment many months ago suggesting that our country and world needs to work from a new economic system - a hybrid socialistic-capaitalist system. Guess what? Members of the UK gov't last night were hinting that capitalisim as we know it is finished and a new system of capitalist-socialisim is now being born from the "birth pangs" - called simply "The New Capitalism". After $1 trillion (25% global GDP) was spent using taxpayer money, the UK is announcing the death of the old capitalism. Good riddance I say.

To those that posted back then I was no expert...I TOLD YA SO!


Jonah
said

I sure hope that Harper & McGuinty have an iron clad money back guaruntee that OUR hard earned tax dollars will stay WITHIN CANADA !


Overworked underpayed...........
said

Paying someone $32 an hour to put car seats in is a huge labour cost. Nurses with university educations make $36 after 5 years of working.................
Hmmmm maybe to auto union needs to rethink there wages because if they do not they may be out of a job altogether. Making some concessions would show Canadians that the $4Billion dollars was worth investing....


Richard Lawton
said

What about our Nafta partner Mexico who has big three auto plants in an ever increasing amount. What have they contributed. My guess is zero. How many jobs will they lose because of nil contribution. My guess again is zero.


By buying Japanese, I voted against GM Chrysler
said

I did not vote to have my tax money spent on propping up GM and Chrysler.

If I wanted to support those companies, I would buy their products.

STOP STEALING MY MONEY!




Tomko
said

Do people really need Auto's or do they need houses. My suggestion is if people have homes they will spend more on the economy, from plumbing to roofs. They can drive what they have. More people employed to up keep a house than a car, or even make a house than make a car...Chasing good money after bad, as they make to much in wages, and their product does not compete with the imported automobiles.


DJT
said

To Diane M.

Yes I agree.

And I object using my tax dollars (and a big percentage of Canadians agree as well) bailing out companies that produces vehicles that are not selling, if these companies produced vehicles that the average Joe could use then perhaps they would not be in the position they are in now. They could still produce the Gas Guzzlers in smaller quantities.
I have a VW Jetta TDI that runs on Diesel gets 57 MPG, seats 5, has 8 airbags and in 4 years has had no faults, If I need a Pick up Truck I rent one for the day. The VW dealers have a waiting list for new units, this to me says it all.


Spendthrift
said

I guess the PM had to bite the 4 Billion dollar bullet here, rather than have the liberals in power and watch tens of billions or more spent, to 'help.' Harper is under pressure here to spend billions or be overturned by the coalition. Say hello to permanent deficit into your old age should the current Liberals get hold of the purse strings during a recession.


Jon the Skeptic
said

Tax me, I'm Canadian! So 4 BILLION of our already poorly managed tax dollars are going to an industry that has been ill managed and short sighted for years and years. I heard an auto executive have the audacity to sugest the problem was that consumers had to shift their mentality and start buying cars again. And people think politicians are out ofd toucvh! When will these greedy companies understand that when they make products no one wants that the fault is 100% on their shoulders? I am very dissappointed that Harper has bowed to the pressure of the socialists and delivered a very NDPish solution which will ultimately fail. The big three are dinosaurs that, unless they change their mentality drastically and quickly, will be extinct in a couple years.


Gregg
said

Its amasing as we are forced and also have to bail out the over paid auto industry that no one has mention the new plant GM is building in Mexico gee wonder where the bail out money will go to help the workers this time next year


Goldens
said

I hope that these are short term loans and do not eventually become forgiven loans. In the end one of the big three will have to go.

John Wilson
Bridgetown NS


Carling in Ottawa
said

THE CAW MUST DO THEIR PART TO HELP WHICH WILL MEAN WAGE AND CONTRACT CHANGES OTHERWISE THEY ARE THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION. EVERYTHING HAS TO CHANGE

I would like to think we will get this issue resolved and the Big 3 will produce vehicles that rival Honda quality. My mom traded in a Mercedes C class for a Honda Accord because the Benz was problematic and they also ripped her off $27. on two occasions just to change a rear light bulb. People are fed up with being taken for granted by the auto industry.

We want good quality vehicles at reasonable prices that LAST.


GP
said

The Canadian economy is about a tenth the size of the US economy, so why are we (the taxpayer) paying approx. 25% of the total bailout package...this is just stupid.

LET THEM FAIL AND THEN RESTRUCTURE


Anthony
said

Prime Minister Stephen Harper said his government will rack up a deficit of up to $30 billion during the next fiscal year in order to jolt the country's struggling economy back to life. The spending is a stunning policy shift for Harper, who has railed against deficits in the past, and would mark the country's first deficit since 1996.

But Harper said the spending is necessary to insulate Canadians from the deteriorating economic climate, and he stressed that the deficit would only exist in the short-term. "What will be more realistic in terms of the kind of stimulus our economy will need, is going to be in the $20 to $30 billion range," he said. "These are the policies we must adopt under these circumstances."

Mr. Harper, don't be naive $30 billions will probably be spend just on automakers over time, for as Mr.Lewenza (CAW) says:
CAW says it won't budge on compensation - “This isn't about wages and benefits of workers,”
Mr. Lewenza said in an interview. “We could work for nothing and we wouldn't sell another vehicle.”
Right he is, I would not buy one ! Why ? They will be greasing their packets from taxpayers money, one way or the other, anyway.
Merry Christmas !


Charlie F
said

Canadian corporate welfare bums and a government with a treasury that just keeps on giving. Ya gotta love it! Our money, their mistakes and we pay. When we make a mistake we pay! (sorry our kids will be paying for this one with deficits right back with us).


Buzz off !
said

Buzz Hargrove was a big part of the labour problem so to see him commenting is a little rich for us.

Enjoy retirement... good timing!


Annette
said

Nice to see our Prime Minister taking action to try and save the auto industry,and he even has Buz Hargove aproval,thats the first!!!.They either make it this time or they will have to go.


Zach
said

Hilarious. Where is the unconditional support for Harper now, now that he's done precisely what Conservative ideologues condemned the Liberals and NDP for proposing? Are bailouts alright when they come from Harper? I'm guessing the answer is yes.


clb
said

Hargrove your retired, so why do you care anymore you, already have your millions.


dorothy mcdonnell
said

Haste makes waste!!!
A band-aide sloution of a main atery bleed is no solution at all. Road-kill is on the horizon for at least one, if not two of the Big Three automotive. With this bailout, the big year-end bonuses of the top are secured..Merry Christmas, perhaps not a Happy New Year, tho', when the next bail-out is demanded and surely that will be the case!!! The band-aide tree may be empty!!!!!


Brett
said

"Labour costs are not the problem,"

Absolutely labour costs are a PART of the problem - and even more important is the productivity and the "that's not my job" attitude that is rampant in these plants.

People wonder what the difference is with Honda and Toyota workers making the same hourly...the difference is they have no union and therefore WORK their whole 8 hours and are productive and don't need 2-3 people (and 2-3 times the labour cost) to do what 1 person can do in a shift.


Tom in Calgary
said

Stand back the partisans of both stripes are about to bombard the air waves. I'm one of them ;-)

Message to all partisans.

The failed coalition espoused exactly this and claimed this is what they wanted. Harper "had to behave as a minority" remember? Now he has backed off and said okay you want to throw money at it here you go. Its not good policy and no one is dumb enough to believe this is "Harper moving left".

The only good news is that both Harper and McGuinty backed off the idiotic notion of telling the manufacturers what cars to build. We don't want Lada's. The cars and trucks built in North America are popular and are good products with cleaner more economical engines developing every year.

They are right in asking the Unions to do their bit. No one deserves the benefit packages those people get. The wage is one thing but the days they can force business' to pay them when they aren't working is bizarre.

This is comprise. I'm conservative and not happy. Liberals and Dippers are writing in at this very moment and they aren't happy.

It must be right.


Marilyn in BC
said

So, now they've opted to prop up business in ON, how about a similar plan for FORESTRY in BC???


Rob B. Oshawa
said

points as i see them
* is not a "gift bail out" is a secured loan.
*dont make vehicles that are reliable and economical,better do your homework,GM alone has won top awards in all classes, this is not the 80's now
*Dont build what the public wants, trucks alone here in Oshawa, keep the plant running 3 shifts and Sat.shift since 1993, no one wanted them? and thats not even counting what was produced in the other truck plants in the U.S.A.
*Wages are the problem? the last 9 years, the union has been giving back,ask someone who works there, when they had thier last pay raise.The year of the 3% raise, have been long over, the 0% is reality.
*Top heavy? Make 10"s of millions in the last few years, and now work for $1.00 this year, im not impressed, send back the cash for last 5 years, we'll know your serious.
*Im glad to see the Goverment, has finally "opened its eyes" the job lose would be over 1/2 a million workers, think we are seeing some hard times now, if that were to happen, the economy wouldnt recover.
* auto workers are lazy, this is such a statement, always by someone, who knows nothing of which they speak,go for a tour, if the plants remain open.
*these are some the facts as i understand them,i am an auto worker in Oshawa



Alberta Angel
said

So, will the government give every business a bailout loan. I'm in line. Are you?


Chris, Hamilton
said

There's no start of a slippery slope argument here. Government has provided levels of support to various industries before, including through strategic subsidies. The levels of support have varied by industry and time period. In current circumstances, there's a good case to give support to the automakers temporarily. The US has already done it. So by doing something we are at least acting to ensure some production remains in Canada.


Reece
said

I hear mostly negatives about this bailout but people aren't seeing the big picture in all of this and that picture is with the elite who are stuffing their pockets full of money in good times, and stuffing their pockets full of money in bad times including banks & manufacturers at the expense of the working man. What's wrong with giving back to the working dude and his family? Shall we all put the working people on the same slippery slope the Chinese have done with their people? That system has it's own problems as evident in Greece, China & Mexico. There's only so far you can push the masses before they start pushing back. In Greece there's been 8 days of fighting, in China a simmering full-blown uprising is coming, in Mexico kidnappings by the thousands with hostages being killed with or without ransoms being paid. Where do the concessions end for the middle class? Shall we survive pay cheque to pay cheque while the bulk of the wealth in our country goes to the failed bank executives, shareholders etc? I don't think the opponents of these bailouts understand the full ramifications of stripping our salary down further since few are screaming about the $100 million golden parachutes being issued to the worst performing bank managers in history. Strip those types of bonuses at least to demonstrate there is some consistency in your convictions and then picture Mexico, China & Greece - THAT will be our future.


Glen from Hamilton
said

plain and simple: WE NEED THESE COMPANIES!
complain all you want about why they're in this situation but we need them. MAYBE if everybody STOPPED buying toyotas we wouldn't be in this mess AT ALL!
Blames yourselves and shame on you!


fitzz
said

What incredible generosity with MY money. I didn't ask to give it away and now Harper and Liar McGuinty are doing just that. You expect this kind of foolishness from the Ontario Fiberals but Harper knows better.

Let one or indeed all of the car makers fail. The CAW can try again with their free market successors.


Charlie
said

Buzz Hargrove and his unions still don't get it...


Gregg in Edmonton
said

I can't believe that I'm saying this, but I think this is needed along with a tremendous amount of internal restructuring. Management and CAW both have to give up a lot of wages and perks to make this fly which is only the first step. If this first allotment of cash doesn't have much affect for our auto industry maybe we should give up on GM & Chrysler as only Ford seems to have a better chance of survival right now.

I hope this injection will shut up the "idiotic left" that continue to criticize our Conservatives for not doing anything. Reality was Harper couldn't do anything until he knew what the US was going to do. He, at least, said there would be a bailout package offered depending on what the Americans did which helped out our markets and consumer confidence a bit.


Drew in NS
said

And Que Jack Layton

I bet he'll be on in 20 Minutes or so taking credit for the bailout, calling Harper incensitive to the working family. This is no where near enough money to save the auto industry.

Give it a rest Jack, Leave running the country to the people who wear the big boy pants.


Charlie
said

The Government should have used the $4 Billion as incentives to Toyota, Honda, Nissan or Hyundai to open up more factories in Canada. At least it would be an investment rather than wasting it on the big three.


BC forester
said

Where is the money for forestry? It's an industry across all ten provinces, and one on which Canada was founded!


NB Observer
said

Anybody point out yet that there are Asian-based car manufacturers creating jobs in the Canadian auto industry? How come we're bailing out some competitors and not others?


Doug BC
said

They have done this at a time when there was little choice.While I agree that Harper is writing the cheque,it's hard to imagine us not facing yet another election had he failed to do so.My guess is,that if the rest of the Canadian economy was humming along in good shape,he wouldn't have bought into this madness.
These companies will be back for more money in the spring.In the USA,they are talking about another $120 billion dollars in March.If McGuinty and Harper are going to buy into that scheme too,we will be out another $30-$40 billion.
If you think this is a reasonable price for an economic stimulus,the next question becomes "what about all the other workers and industries in the country"??
Did we just spend more than a decade lowering debt and reducing taxes just to bail out Ontario auto workers? A province,by the way,that has yet to figure out that deficit spending and big taxes are a sure path to ruin.
I truly hope this band aid stops the bleeding.I fear the taxpayers have not heard the end of these demands,that there is still no market for most Canadians products,and that taxpayer money is going to be the addictive to a lot more failing businesses.
In short,the global economy is in deep do-do,and there is little any Canadian can do about it other than try to mitigate the damage at home.
In truth,Liberals should thank their lucky stars that they lost the last election.


Foolishness
said

The enormous amounts of taxpayer money thrown at the Big Two (Ford is not requesting money at this time) does NOT address the underlying, self admitted problems of these two dinosaurs, namely, that they are building sub-quality vehicles that few are willing to purchase. There is no doubt in my mind that Chrysler should have folded a decade ago, with G.M. not too far behind. Until and unless our non-competitive domestic auto companies can: (a) produce significantly better, more fuel efficient vehicles, and (b) substantially reduce their input (labour) costs, these companies are doomed to fail. I predict that the "short-term loans" provided by Canada and the U.S. will be burnt through in a matter of months, and that the struggling domestic automakers will either ask for more money or go bankrupt in the near future.


anti-tax dude
said

As usual, Harper will be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Heard Buzz"off" Hargrove whining and complaining this morning. As usual nothing makes him happy. Good riddance Buzz, hopefully you have a lousy retirement.YOu helped "kill" the industry with your ridiculous demands.


Craig
said

The fact that both a Liberal PM and a Conservative PM are working on solving this crisis is should be enough to show anyone that the problem isn't as simple as letting the auto-industry disappear in North America. If we wanted to be on the verge of depression we'd allow the private sector to just fall apart.

I'm neither a Liberal or a Conservative but they are doing the right thing by assisting the industry but at the same time taking a stake in it. Hopefully they will force the big three to merge and cut the fat (*there's a lot of fat to be cut)

Also labour in this case is easy to blame as they have become greedy. Yes they made some concessions in the past but they were also allowed to get the the position where they are hurting the cooperation and the industry, to the point of collapse. The owners and execs also dont seem to understand the industry at all anymore and they are making decisions which hurt them or are acting too late.

Hopefully the reforms will correct these mistakes.

Good going Harper and McGuinty


Drew in NS
said

Labour costs are the problem, and the added bonuses such here is an example each member of the CAW is entitled to Spa Days explain that!!!

I just don't understand where a 45 year old hard working taxpayer working at Tim Horton's for just over mimimum wage has to bail out the Big 3, all this to ensure the Auto workers can keep there $70/hr pay check and Spa Days.

I will be boycotting NA cars until the Big 3 Exec's and Union Big Wigs and their minions start ponying up to the table and sacrificing parts of their wages and benifits.


Ray Luft
said

Let Nortel, scientists and engineers go to hell but bail out the Americans. At least this saves me my annual contribution to the Conservative party.


DW
said

I believe there is a war going on and I'm not talking about the Middle East. I think that right wing interests are waging an all-out war on the union in support of the globalization efforts.

One need look no further than the FLOODING of these comment boards with right-wing, anti-union, pro-Harper messages.

38% of Canadians voted for Harper. I, personally, find it hard to believe that 100% of those are behind him enough to scream "RAH! RAH! HARPER!" on message boards. Yet roughly 70%-80% of messages on here seem to be right wing oriented.

How can this be? Ask yourself if it might be possible that a concentrated group of right-wingers whose sole purpose is to influence society to their own benefit could be making multiple postings from various email addresses.

Things are not always what they seem. Unions are working to increase the standard of living of EVERYONE, not just themselves.


a making do senior
said

Let's hope someone knowledgeable is watching the handout of these monies. Top of the list would be to determine that this money actually stays here in Canada and that the labour groups are forced to face some reality. You just have to look at the union leaders in this country - still longshoremen with the same mentality - that goes for the CAW - the postal unions - Ottawa's transit system, etc. etc. - if only.......


Paul in Brantford
said

Party money for the shirts and ties and dresses !!


bananas
said

politics at it's finest. using money from all tax payers, and sales of the west resources to buy votes in the east. If they have vehicles they are not able to sell, what good will more money /loans do. Build more they can't sell?


Ralph
said

It would appear that the system of Capitalisim is failing throughout the world by it's own dismerit of greed..time to learn goose stepping..whats old is new again


LABOUR IS THE PROBLEM
said

I agree with NOSTRADAMN, being said and lets make it clear Harper is not supporting his corporate cronies. Only a NDP would come up with a comment like this.
The CAW President, the greedy guy who has lined his pockets states Harper blames the workers. This guy has to go. Why should us taxpayers have to suffer due to a corrupt union. The workers have to take a pay cut or have no job, of course the union doesn't want this as they still want to line their pockets. The CAW will not support the workers due to being greedy. This problem would be resolved if it wasn't for the CORRUPT UNION. If only we could get rid of all unions Canada would be the best place on earth.
Think twice before ever voting NDP if they were in power we would all be destitute, we wouldn't be able to put food on the table, like Taliban Jack states but only refers to the union employees.It is so obvious NDP supports the union as he is just as corrupt as them and the same goes to anyone that supports NDP

Let's just get the economy going. Harper is the only one that will do this. He is for us Canadian taxpayers.


Chris Hodgson in Ontariariari-Oh!
said

These guys have got to realize that the cost per vehicle is higher compared to the transplant offshore companies.Who is going to buy a north american car when they can get a Honda or Toyota of equal size for less or at about the same price including options which are always extra with a north american car.G.M. never made a serious attempt at producing something competitive with a Corolla or a Civic for years because they could not produce it cost effectively.They lost money for years on the cavalier/sunfire.They lost an average of about $1300. per car,they made up for the losses on sales of their pickups,S.U.V's and high end vehicles.Their person/hours to produce has been higher than their competitors.In order to fill the sub compact market they brought the cars in from Korea.So these guys saying their labour costs shouldn't be included in any measures to achieve efficiencies or savings is unrealistic and foolhardy.They are only contributing to their own demise as if you are not attempting to be part of the solution you leave yourself open to being part of the problem.


They are just LUCKY this time, don't PUSH it!
said

I am surprised that Harper did not even mention a word about any RULES or REGULATIONS to those big 2 automakers!

Maybe he thought his bubby Bush already said it loud and clear!

I do agree with the credit problem, global economic downsize,unsucessful marketing strategy - miscalculate production promotions combine with over pay CEO and excess numbers of retire employee and current payroll format for union employees etc.

But Honda and Toyota still having the same difficulties but yet they don't need a loan from both Governments! HONDA DON'T HAVE U-N-I-O-N EITHER!

But as an employee, don't you ALL want the company to success?? If your CEO already giving up his PRIVATE JET and use the product for travlling - wouldn't it something that the union members and shareholders can GIVE UP and save the company?

If they are still thinking of having another shoot with President Obama after Jan. 20, 2009, I honestly sugguest them SAVE THEIR BREATHE!

That poor guy have so much to deal with on his plate, you guys just take a number and wait on the line!

Besides, both countries already did eveything against the taxpayers' wish and gamble on it.

Have some brain cell and think of it logically, not emotional. Work it out somehow! You union member, CEO, designers - all of you employees have to work it out as a team and proof it to us that we are wrong!

Welcome to the REAL WORLD! CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY AND COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS!STOP COMPLAINING!

If you guys are living or working in any Asian countries, YOUR JOB WILL BE REPLACED by anybody WITHIN MINUTUES! NEVER MIND ABOUT any UNION TALK! THEY DON'T LIKE IT AND THEY DON'T WELCOME IT! YOU GUYS ARE dame lucky IN CANADA!!!!!


Mary Clarke
said

Looks like the pressure from the Coalition,for deficit spending is working well.
Maybe the Cons. Party should have just raided the E.I. funds to pay for this.-The good old Liberal way.


Alex from Laval
said

The Government should help those who contribute to the solution if this is a temporay one all includeing the workers should make concessions
But From a person who ran from his responsibilities as a prime Minister Mr. Harper.
FUIGURES he would just give out the money with out restrictions ...hes afarid of the backlash
Wekll watch out now that you are free
Free MONEY for everyone ...car manufacturers and banks and oil comopanies ...how about the rest of canadians we all need money now ??21 new senators ??
The next Election we will resolve your problems ...and LIES...


John C. Hastings
said

The Voice of One
Trust Steve (Canada has nothing to worry about) Harper gets the Union Concessions prior to writing any cheques.
If the $70. plus per hour is not correct the unions should publish the exact pay scales plus benefits for all to see


Robert L
said

What people don't seem to understand is that the possibility of 400,000 lost is a problem that crosses party lines, and it's great to see the Federal Conservatives and Provincial Liberals work together. 7 Spin off jobs are affected by every auto worker job lost! Also, GM has invested BILLIONS of dollars on new "green" and innovative, high tech cars that will come out in 2010. Making them the number one producer of energy efficient cars in the world It just seems that all media have chosen to ignore completely what GM is doing now to look to the future, or GM is doing an awful job of getting their message out. However they just need the Gov't LOAN, yes a repayable LOAN, to get them through, since, at the time they were investing Billions into research and development, Americans were hit by the Credit Crisis and have stopped buying cars. Once the credit is available, it looks like things will get back on track, as long as EVERYONE learns that things can't go on the way they were, and as for the Unions, if they aren't happy with concessions that will pay them $30 or $40, or more, than quit and give me your job, because there are many out their who would be happy to have a job that paid that much.


Brandon, Alberta
said

The death of capitalism is when public money is used to support dieing private company.


Shan
said

This is sheer stupidity. It is only the US 3 that are in trouble, and then only 2 of them. Other companies like Honda are doing just fine. I say let the other 2 go out of business naturally. We will still purchase cars, it is just that we will purchase the ones we want. Please don't use my tax dollars to pay off the Detroit automakers and their unions. Speaking of unions, if $70 per hour is not the right number, what is it that they make?


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said

Well -- I guess anyone who refuses to buy an automobile built in Canada must want to two twice: once for the car they bought and once again for the one their tax money bought.

I have always driven North American cars, used one of course -- because new cars are very over-priced -- but one has to support those parts manufactures in China.


Chris
said

While I'll freely admit that a half million out of work Canadians are the last thing we want to see, this definitely could and should have been handled better. As it is, the auto industry is getting their money and no one is getting any visibility of their restructuring plans. Completely unacceptable when we've seen these companies mismanage their businesses to a ridiculous degree. As it is, we're handing these folks money and credit with no guarantee they won't use the funds to protect the Canadian auto industry.

I'm not completely opposed to some sort of bail out for the automakers, if for no other reason than to allow us time to find work for people caught in the collapse of the industry, but this really should have been a case of our politicians dragging the heads of the Big 3 into an office in Ottawa or Toronto and saying "Look guys, this has been coming for a decade now. What's your plan? How are you going to use these funds to protect Canadian citizens and interests?"


John Black Ontario
said

In view of the groundswell of Outrage, Anger, and Resentment at what is perceived to be Gross Mismanagement and Corporate Greed coupled with an Overpaid Workforce who blatantly like gannets grab more and evermore...........

I would suggest that anyone in these trying times who has a few Bucks to spare to go out and buy as much Honda,Toyota and Hyundai stock because when Joe Public eventually unleashes the purse string these three companies are going to be hard put to cater for demand...............


Kevin in Toronto
said

The forestry problem isn't new. If you look at statistics, it became a problem in 2003 and it has only become an issue now because Gordon Campbell stated that that sector should get help if the auto sector gets help.


Orwellian Watcher
said

Don't steal! The government hates competition.


Steve in Aylmer
said

What a joke this has become.

This companies built themselves and survived on unsustainable practises.

The automobile industry is a joke.

Why should this industry be bailed out?

4 billion dollars for what?

Now we have companies on welfare, great news.



MuskyBuck
said

4 Billion dollars...20 billion dollars...

They are missing the point, which is why Harper is a horrible leader.

Or a Fascist Theocracy leader as Frank Zappa would have labelled him.

A man who would spend his time throwing money at an obviously corrupt and broken system of business, is by all definition an idiot.

Take your pick, we already know what calibre of thinker Bush and his cabinet of soon to be tried war criminals are...

When will the rest of you wake up to realize this Leave it to Beaver era state puppet is not good for us.


LP4
said

How can the government agree to bailout something that has the union expressing more than once that they are not willing to concede on labour costs? How can we as tax payers afford to bailout businesses that are proven incompetent and not sustainable? How can we be doing this worthless action and add a deficit Canada should not be carrying? This is wrong in so many ways!!!!


BR Cassidy Kanata
said

Amazing eh! Overseas-based auto manufacturers accounted for 35% of the vehicles made in Canada in 2006, Canadian made cars also use a smaller proportion of imported parts than 2 decades ago. Overseas-based car companies account for $6Billion in net exports of Canadian auto products in 2006 compared with $4 billion for the Big 3. Why is it that overseas-based companies are not in dire straits such as the Big 3? Sounds to me like they know how to run a business and how to build cars and trucks that people want. I surely hope this care package is payed back to the tax payers who know how to run their finances and businesses.


jjaycee98
said

Get it right people! It is not "THE BIG 3" that are getting money. It is only GM and Chrysler. Ford says they can carry on, on their own. Their sales are still holding up. You can still get a lease or finance through FORD Credit.

Now why is that? A better product? Better management? Employee lines that produce in exchange for their pay?


John Black Ontario
said

DW,.........

"Things are not always what they seem. Unions are working to increase the standard of living of EVERYONE, not just themselves."



My God, ......... What planet is this person On! .........

dave
said

if the auto workers wouldnt take cuts fire them all there are lots of minim wages workers would love to work just half of what the auto workers get, just ask anyone working for 10..00 a hr there taxes paying to bail out them getting 70 per hr


Questions for Bob. B, Oshawa - union member
said

Honestly, do you want your company to sucess?

Have you been in the plant for more than 8 years?

My step son just got a verbal layoff. He's been working in Oshawa for 8 years. His last day is Dec. 23. when ask when will he be call back - INDEFINITE!

Yes, you guys made good trucks and cars and ALL EXPORT TO UNITED STATES while they used to have a HOUSE - A GARGAGE, A JOB! Now, THEY GOT NOTHING!

Look at the PARKING LOT - 4 months' supply of cars in ANY dealership. ALL BRAND NEW 2009! SO MUCH THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE TO STICK IT!

If you run a business as a boss, don't you want to CLEAR ALL YOUR INVENTORY AND COLLECT ALL THE CASH FIRST BEFORE THEY TURN ON THE BUTTON AND PRODUCE MORE PRODUCT!

That's the major problem! We are dealing with a global RECESSION - DEPRESSION. Nobody has a JOB! Can't even buy grocery!

Be thankful that you still have a PAY CHEQUE. One personal advise, use it wisely, nobody knows how many more paycheque you will be getting if you don't help out the company that you work with!

Use your logic and prove all of us we are wrong!

P.S. My husband is a USED CAR BUSINESS MANAGER for one of the General Motor Store. He can tell you how many customers he saw this month and how many customers did the bank approve their car loan! His pay down by 30% this year! Not his choice but being part of the team member for the company. We don't want it down but seems like you union members are not smelling the coffee YET!

James
said

I would have liked to see what Jack Layton of the "coalition" would have pushed for. I am sure this is VERY conservative. Considering where Layton comes from and his stance on unions. So lets remember who our socialist options really are. (No I dont agree with a bailout of any kind. GM has proven against toyota and other automakers to not know how to make money and run with a HUGE debt ratio.)


John in Calgary
said

I really hope none of the complaints about this package are coming from Liberals and NDP. This is your party's at work here, Harper would have never done this bailout if he had majority.

Unions had their day. They brought better working conditions, paid holidays, overtime, etc. But there comes a time when a job is done. These are all things that are recognized by government and enforced without Unions.

Now is the time to earn a wage because you're good at the job, not because 100,000 other people refuse to work unless they get that wage.


Darin
said

Corporate welfare, that's all it is. When the auto makers burn up that money they will come with their hand out again.
What were they thinking, while the imports companies were making more fuel efficient cars the North Am. motor companies decided to make a new line of gas guzzling muscle cars that nobody can afford to buy or drive (it's a No brainer).


cn't ncld vwlls
said

Let's see: 4 billion for three months equals 12 b per year. That takes care of 2009. Plus 6b for 2010 ought to do it!


Red Deer Joe
said

Harper had to do it. Like it or not, the country is headed for bad times and as a so-called economist, he should not have misled the public in October. Whether the other provinces want to admit or not, Ontario's economy is vital to the nation and the auto sector needed to be assisted. Yes, he is obviously looking for votes but that's the job of government - assisting those who put them in office. This money is a LOAN folks, so before you all go off half-cocked, find out the details of the arrangements and be thankful that half a million people won't be collecting EI or welfare anytime soon. Happy New Year!


Steve in Ottawa
said

Has everybody forgotten that less than a month ago, a "coalition" was moving to take over the government of Canada because Harper WASN'T going to bail out the auto industry or "stimulate" the economy? Sounds to me as if he has no choice but to offer a bailout package if he wants to stay in office. And I would prefer that he stays in office than have one of the other three stooges, or worse, all three stooges, in office.


Brent - Penticton, BC
said

Now that we have started the slide down this slippery slope, some $4 billion, 20% of the US bailout, are we committed to 20% of additional funds that Obama is sure to commit. This could turn out to be a collasal mistake, however, not as disastrous if the Coalition Triumvirate were in control of our finances.

OK, where do we go from here with over 20,000 woodworkers and loggers job losses and numerous saw/pulp mills shut down, and this has not JUST happened, this has been an ongoing problem for many years. If you think this is the worst that can happen to our forest industry, think again, as our American lumber manufacturing "friends" are in the process of challenging the terms of NAFTA and whatever other agreement we have over forestry/lumber due to low stumpage fees on "Pine beetle kill" logs. After this, it will be a "mad cow" event or a Saskatchewan potash perceived problem, and if you think Obama is going to step in and alleviate the problem you are wrong as he does not agree with NAFTA. It may take a while for all these to happen, but they will.

The true friendship of our two countries will be sorely tested and unfortunately for us , it is like "the tail wagging the dog".

Bring our troops home so they can defend our own border. Actually, just bring them home.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to ALL.


Mike
said

I lost confidence in the Harper regime at the same time the coalition did.
Harper went from zero need for stimulas to 30 billion in 5 weeks. Harper & his clowns have not a clue. The liberals had a plan let them form a government.


Larry I Ontario
said

Where is my bail out? I object to this wasteful spending of my hard earned tax dollars!! Big business is the problem and once again the little guy gets nothing. This money should have been given right back tro the tax payers and not these fat cats who wildly spend on fancy jets and holidays!! We need leadership in this country and a entire new overhaul of all the parties to help the little guy!!


Web Smith
said

The forces behind the opposition to the domestic car loans were Senators from foreign car states. What they fail to realize is that in order for their foreign automaker buddies to be healthy, the economy has to be healthy. The economy won't be healthy without domestic car manufacturing. This was very shallow, self-serving thinking and they shot themselves in the foot.

If the economy was healthy and if the government had not been involved in attempting to regulate private industry causing the economy to collapse, it would be correct to think that the federal government should not be involved in bailing out private industry, including the banks, but since they did and are, they have made the taxpayers liable for the survival of private industry.

BS
said

To all who think the auto workers actually EARN $70/hr...

Get your facts straight, ok? Auto workers earn roughly $32/hr. When these higher wage numbers are glibly tossed around, they include benefits, employers cost of Gov't deductions (EI, CPP, etc), and everything surrounding the cost of employment. I don't for a minute believe the $70/hr is accurate for the CAW workers. In the states it may be close, but not in Canada.

When you take your car to a mechanic, what do you think the guy working on the car actually makes?? Do you really think he makes the same $80 - $90/hr plus being charged by the shop? NO, HE DOES NOT. It’s more like $15 - 25/hr (depending on where he works). The difference between what he actually earns, and what's being charged by the shop, is the total cost to employ that mechanic, plus of course some profit.

The same thing is being done here. I don't pretend to know the exact cost to GM for the CAW workers, but the worker sure as hell does NOT earn $70/hr on his paycheck! Even at double time on a holiday, they don’t earn that much!!

Now... you want to talk about waste in the auto industry? ok, let's... What about the plants that laid off a shift worth of workers in order to save money, but have not laid off ONE single manager?? Doesn't happen you say? It sure as hell does! I just lived it!

Bottom line…NOBODY is blameless in this mess. The corporations must cut management (including executive) staff and their salaries by at least 40 - 50% or more. THEN, come back to the CAW, and negotiate.pretend to know the exact cost to GM for the workers, but the worker sure as hell does NOT earn $70/hr on his paycheck! Even at double time on a holiday, they do not earn $70/hr!!

Now... you want to talk about waste in the auto industry? OK, let's... What about the plants that have laid off a shift worth of workers in order to save money, but have not laid off ONE single manager?? Doesn't happen you say? It sure as hell does! I just lived it!

All that having been said. Is anyone blameless in this whole mess? No, I don't think so. I believe the corporations need to cut management and their salaries by at least 40% or more. THEN, by all means come back to the CAW and ask for some help to fix the problem. I do believe that some cuts should and could be made, but how about having the exorbitant salaries and bonuses of the execs cut in half, and reduce management by 40-50%. I'd bet that'll go a long way to fixing the problems!


Marc
said

A useless as a blood infusion to a terminally ill with cancer (unionized)industry.
How is this as an Idea!!! Every Other Canadian (Un-auto industry related)at Tax time keeps 1000$ for them selves....hey us un-unionized workers also need some sort of stimulus package!


Solidarity forever!
said

Let's do some math that can't be disputed: At Windsor Assembly Plant, where they make that #1 selling, crappy mini-van, that no one wants to buy (and the VW Routan, too), 4588 workers build ~360,000 vans/yr. Even using the UNTRUE $70/hour labour cost figure = $140,000/yr = $1784.22/vehicle. Therefore, even if the unions took a 50% pay cut, the price of a minivan would come down less than $900, IF the company passed the savings on.

The fact is, one of the biggest costs in the price of a vehicle - far greater than the labour cost - is the saturation advertising the company does. How do you like paying 30% of your new car cost, just so the company who built it csn afford to brainwash you into buying it in the first place.

BTW CAW autoworkers MUST have a highschool diploma and pass a rigorous dexterity and spacial skill test that I doubt most of the "they only turn bolts" folks could pass.

But, as for arguments about how much anyone should get paid for the work they do? I'll submit that it's not only based on how hard your work is, or how skilled you need to be to do it. It's also based on how much value you add to the product/service you produce. In the case of autoworkers, this is ~$300,000/yr. That is 5 to 6 times the average of other manufacturing jobs. This is due to the inherent efficiencies of the assembly line process. Autoworkers don't believe that execs. and investors should reap the lion's share of that added value. They believe the consumer and those who do the work should share fairly in that value.

Claims the unions are the problem, or that they make too much, are based on ignorance and/or envy, nothing else.


Ben, Edmonton
said

Awesome. Now they can continue to flood the market with low-quality vehicles that people don't want to buy, and the government will fund it.

Problem solved.


K
said

BIG MISTAKE...We might as well bail out the fishing industry ...forestry, etc etc ..BIG MISTAKE..


terry out west
said

Dear DW, Yea it's all a big conspiracy driven by the conservative party and union haters to stack this discussion with Harper loving union hateing drones. Give your head a shake DW and understand that these are real taxpaying Canadians with a right to be heard especially when it concerns our tax money. For all we know DW you could be one of Jacks boy friends or maybe even Buzz himself.


Robinoxford
said

SOMETHING IS MISSING
We've heard the US bailout and the Canadian bailout. Seems to me Mexico might just need to anti up. For some of these big 3 there are more plants in Mexico than Canada.


Ryan P.
said

As a Conservative I am upset that Harper gave in to the left-wing segment of society and put my tax dollars towards an industry which consumers no longer have a demand for. The Big Three produce an inferior product versus their foreign competitors....they deserve to fail.


Larry in Wpg
said

First you waste our tax money with 21 new MP's for Ontario - now trying to buy Ontario votes with our tax money. If the automakers were in any province other than Ontario or Quebec, this would not even make the news. Way to go Harper, you've sold out to Layton and the CAW.


Pete
said

Okay, so now it's confirmed that the tax payers are going to be funding the failing auto industry. My question now is when is the government going to offer a similar "loan" program to the nation's other faltering industries? That would include: fisheries, forestry, mining, farming, textile, drywall manufacturers, dog breeders, and any other industry that asks for assistance. What's good for the goose is good for the gander right?


JS
said

The $4 billion could have been put to better use than going to the Big 3 and their union. The money could have gone to the banks to open lend it out at 0% interest to people wanting to buy any of the Big 3 vehicles. That way their vehicles are selling and the Big 3 and workers can make vehicles to replace those that get sold. Right now vehicles are not selling because the banks won't lend the money to consumers.
GM should be allowed to declare bankrupcy. A few years ago, it was in the news that their pension liability was not sustainable. GM has to pay out too much for pensions, and the union says its not a worker problem. It was and is a worker and union problem for years, when they keep demanding for more and more till now that GM is on the verge of bankrupcy. The Big 3 can only suck so much money from the consumers, till the consumers say no more and go buy from another company, which is happening now. So, now the ball is in the CAW's court. What IS the CAW going to do with it?
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. The Big 3 and the CAW, just fooled Canadians once with the $4 billion. Will they come back for a second try?


Cal in Ottawa
said

Far too much money. But let's be clear, it is NOT the North American auto industry that is in trouble, just the Detroit based auto industry! And why? Very poor management and production decisions. Detroit has always been enamoured by the big vehicle. Even after 1973 they only paid lip service to the energy efficient and smaller vehicle. Once the price of oil became 'reasonable,' Detroit's advertising was focused on trucks and so-called SUVs, better described as trucks with a passenger compartment. Fuel economy was discounted. Detroit discovered they could create a desire for these products and make a lot of money on each one...then $150 a barrel oil hit. A cold dose of reality. I bet now that oil is hovering around $40 dollars Detroit still wants to make big vehicles.
Then there were the insane salaries paid to the people who drove the industry to near bankruptcy. The unions ensured the workers were well compensated as well. Now the gravy train is derailed, and Canada is left with plants, that for the most part, make these less fuel efficient vehicles. The smaller ones are made in the States or Mexico. Speaking of which I haven't seen Mexico offering monetary support.
I suspect this will be an other waste of our taxpayers dollars.
Isn't it strange how these companies say they swear by the free market until they fail then they want public money to fix their mistakes. Gotta love it. More fool the conservatives for forgetting their principles; they look more like liberals all the time!


Happy
said

I sincerely hope that the bailout will accomplish the intended objective. The Unions have to be stopped in their tracks. Personally, I have recently purchased another Honda CRV for many reasons, one of them being the fact that they are so predictable in many ways. Hopefully the Big 3 will come out of the dark ages and start to build products that consumers will want to buy.


Amanda from Alberta
said

Now are you satisfied Ontario? We get to go into a deficit, something Harper did not want to happen but now has no choice being backed into the corner by the threat of the coalition. Yes the auto industry needs help, come one, you expect those poor workers to live on $70 dollars an hour to do a job that any Japanese (foreign) child could do with much more qualified skill.


Canada Goose Whistler
said

This would be a good thing if the money came directly from the pockets of the 37% of Canadians that voted conservative.


Rob
said

Canadian Auto Workers for the big three should have their benefits and salaries pegged to those of workers of Ontario workers for Honda and Toyota, no less , no more!!


Sully
said

The real problem are the unpatriotic idiots who buy asian cars,thinking they are superior!The unionized workers are not the problem.I'm a miner who belongs to a union and I know for a fact that unions protect workers safety and ensure that we get good wages and decent health care etc.,things that everybody deserves.Although I do believe that the auto workers should have to take concessions given the situation.


Miriam
said

The auto sector is never going to be viable , maybe the goof-offs need to get rid of their fuming gas guzzling corporate jets just for starters .


Ex conservative.
said

Harper is obviously spooked.
It's just amazing how his tune has changed since the coalition threat and prorogation.
And to think that a couple of weeks ago a surplus was predicted by the Reform Party.


Brenda
said

Hmmmm....when a consumer is in financial trouble and their credit rating falls, they can MAYBE get a loan, at a usurious interest rate. What interest rate is tied to this bailout? Will the taxpayers be reimbursed acceptably?


Don from NB
said

Harper wake up ! Harper you have wasted our tax dollars ,& Canada's precious time . I think the 2% increase for ODSP was a joke ,& you don't realize how serious of a financial crises you put the people on disability into . You laugh  while you play games with people's money the money we need for our future's ,& our children . People have not had any sufficient increases on their benefits since 1993 .You make people so angry . “Canadians work hard for their retirement ,yet you leave them bankrupt . Harper you just sit on a pedestal on hind legs playing famous “ I think Harper's fame is part of his delusions ,& that he should be put in a mental hospital ,& diagnosed wit some sort of mental disorder.  Harper is the worst prime minster ever . No more Harper !



Mercedes in Calgary
said

I will never buy a domestic car again. The imports are of far better quality and their corporations know how to run their businesses properly. Unions will be the death of this country.

Katie
said

I have always believed in supporting our North American car industry. Over the past decade my husband and I have bought six brand new vehicles. But I am disillusioned with North American vehicles and will not likely buy one again. We purchase GM and Ford vehicles in the $40,000 range and in just over a year or so we end up spending thousands of dollars more to replace tires, brakes and other parts. They are obviously designed to wear out quickly. Our vehicles don't pass their second year road inspection without spending alot of money to replace parts. So if they are counting on faithful buyers like us to support the industry, the problem is we've lost faith in North American cars.


Jake Castlegar
said

CAW president and past president, Buzz, said that labour costs do not contribute to the problems of the Big 3. Well, as a tax payer, I want to decide for myself. How about publishing the CAW Collective Agreements with the Big 3, including any benefit packages which may not reveal in the current Collective Agreements. So we can see once and for all if labour cost is part of the problem.


jimmathy
said

Glen from Hamilton; Maybe if the big 3 built a competitive vehicle the buying public might be willing to shop local. This is the great thing about living in a democracy, having a choice!!!


Me
said

To all you labor bashers.
7% 7% 7% do I have to write it all across the page. That's all that is paid to workers, 7%. In the last few days I have heard this figure repeated on TV by those who know. How can a 7% output cause a company to go bankrupt. What was done with the other 93%-- jets and bigwig salaries maybe, or just mismanagement.


Solution for the Auto,Forest and Mining industries
said

Finance Minister Flaherty stop the shorting of resource stocks so these companies can raise much needed capital to continue operations.

Shorting only destroys companies and lines the pockets of Liberal insiders and friends on Bay Street.

BANISH SHORTING AND NAKED SHORTING NOW MR. MINISTER.

THAT WOULD ALSO HELP THE AUTO INDUSTRY AS WELL.


Paul
said

There's little doubt in my mind that the smart auto workers, designers and engineers are busy working on their resumes. I hope the honest among you eventually find a good career elsewhere in Canada.

As far as you greedy SOB union mobsters and execs, shame on you all. Shame.

Can you imagine what $4B properly invested into healthcare, infrastructure, and other areas more canadians are involved with could have done for Canada?

For heaven's sake do something positive with this money.

Earn it. Or all of you in this industry will be shunned by your fellow Canadians.. if you're not already.


Greg
said

Great. So now every body who owns a business should be able to go get help. If you are stupid and cant run a company dont sweat it the government will through money at you. Ont is not Canada by itself. There are more than one province making up this country. When the west was in trouble several years back did the east help out NO. But when the east is in trouble, all of a sudden Canada is in trouble. Now Ont expects the rest of Canada to bail them out. Well I guess the west has to take another one for the near sighted fat cats in the east.


VLH
said

Total waste of money. The Big 3 are dead, and it is time to move on.

And this government and the leaders of all parties are a joke. None of them care about the country and the will of the people.


AB
said

I bet Canadians will backlash on the big 3 by NOT buying there cars!!!!


What a waste of money!!!

My $133.00 .....


L.A.
said

Ontario has been pouring at least $20 Billion a year into equalization. Equalization doesn't work any more and should be eliminated. Ontario would have been able to handle this crisis on their own if not for equalization. Taxpayers cannot subsidize every business in the country nor should we have to bail out the ABCP holders. The banks should be on the rap for that, and regulations in place to prevent a repeat of ABCP fraud.


iggy and the stooges
said

wow, i own a small business and my sales are down this year because of the crappy weather. guess what the federal government will have for me.................................an audit


tired of hand outs
said

I was never a big fan of American Cars. If the Big 3 want to survive; then The Executives must cut Bonuses, Salaries, Corporate Jets,etc etc. Union must agree to wage cuts. Employees must realize that $40./per hour is better than standing in line for E.I. Harper and Mcquinty do not give these idiots a single penny unles they all agree to cut backs as well as restucturing the industry. Enough is enough!


JP in BC- driving a NISSAN
said

Mr Harper- you just made a HUGE mistake- which will end you regin-
Bail out an automaker-
They make Junk- no one buys the product- if you are giving money to the Big Three then equal amounts should go to th eother car makers- Honda Nissan.
Auto Workers need to get a life-
let them join the Militray and WROK for a living.

Another SAD DAY for taxpayers


M M B Ont
said

Well Harper is damed if he does and damed if he doesn't it seems. This man can never seem to do anything right according to the Canadian people. The Opposition and people want a stimulus and when he tries, everyone get's on their bitching.
For those who complain their is no requisition for restructuring read this from CTV news: "Harper told reporters the aid package "is not a blank cheque" and that he wants to see the car companies and their unions work together to restructure their operations.
"All stakeholders are going have to be part of the solution," Harper said.
It seems Canada is a country of gimme, gimme, gimme. It never stops. Everyone wants something and want it now regardless. We should learn to do without a few toys and be thankful for what we have and not get too greedy.
Just remember folks, Harper said the budget will be a deficit budget so don't everyone get on the bandwagon and blame him... don't forget to include the greedy and power hungry Opposition parties as well because they are forcing this issue and in the end they will probably vote down the budget because the deficit won't be high enough for them. Sheeshhhh


JoyceI
said

With this Big Auto package, I would think the Unions need to pare down their Wages and Benifits, so that there will be a good effort on the Auto anufacturers and those working to make things more viable in the long run so that if they make it through this, every effort has been made by all concerned.
This would be the bottom line, everyone in the Auto Sector need to adjust to lower wages, after all it is all of the Taxpayers which foot the Bill, not just the CAW member union workers.
We have to tighten our belt, they can do the same.
We do not get Spa packages especially if one is a Sr. there is none in our package so why should the workers have theirs, beside even when working,we never had a Spa luxury in our wage package.
Buzz Hargrove needs to be more aware that the ordinary Canadian works hard for what they earn and do not get all the frivolities which those who work at the car plants receive.
Concessions have to be made by everyone.



Geof
said

Speaking of Federal money pits going to private industry...Can you say Bombardier?


J. Michael McCutcheon - Toronto, ON
said

BIG AUTO IS DOOMED IN CANADA

Stephen Harper and Dalton McGuinty announced a $4 Billion bail out for GM and Chrysler in the form of loans back by the Canadian taxpayer. Harper stated that “all stakeholders are going have to be part of the solution”. He repeated and emphasized “all stakeholders”.

Literally, within minutes, former CAW union chief, Buzz Hargrove, was on television saying that workers had already given up enough. Current CAW, head honcho, Ken Lewenza followed with the same sentiments, basing part of his argument on ‘productivity' levels.

It looks as though the door has been effectively 'closed' on the CAW wishing to play as 'active participants' in the re-launching of the battered, North American, automotive industry.

Somehow, Buzz and Ken did not hear Stephen emphasize “all stakeholders”. "All", means "all".

The 'good side' is that taxpayers may be off the hook for the $4 Billion because Hargrove and Lewenza fail to understand that the situation is far beyond ‘negotiations’.

You are either 'in' or you are 'out'.

For every CAW worker, the situation is plain, straight and simple.

No ‘Play’.

No ‘Pay’.

No “Job’.

No ‘Union”.

Period.

The ‘100-year party’, that started with your great-granddaddies, is over.

Go home.

The 'bad side' is that you may lose it because your union bosses wouldn’t ‘play’.



Doug In Calgary
said

I think we have to realize that is the end of an industrial area for North America. A decline in sales for all types of autos is falling off in North America as well as the rest of the world and it will not rebound to what it was.

With all of the uncertanties facing us (the consumer)a multibillion dollar bailout is unlikely to stimulate the populace into making a decision to purchase a new vehicle.

The doom and gloom of total economic collapse of the economy if the Big Three go under needs to be re-thought. Probably an extreme downsizing to fit current new vehicle demand and then a slow rebuilding over time based on consumer demand increases and the implemention of future fuel trends.

An overnight solution doesn't exist. This is a long term issue and the government, the consumers, the manufacturers and the unions have to get their head around it. Blaming each other for the problems is basically immature playground antics.


Linda in Vancouver
said

While I hope time will prove me wrong,I think this is going to fail.We tried similar loans and subsidies in the forest industry here in BC.The final result was years of promises,truckloads of money,and companies that eventually failed anyway.If companies and unions are stupid enough to pay someone $30+ per hour to do jobs that require very little education,and are,at best,semi skilled,they deserve to fail.
This is a move by Harper to keep the socialists from burning this parliament so soon after the last election.
DUH!! HELLO. $4 billion as a down payment for the auto industry,21 more seats in parliament for Ontario,no talk of Senate Reform.GIve me a break.Once again it is all about appeasing central Canada with no demands for them to reciprocate in any way at all.Not now.Not ever.
All that on the heels of a fraudulent coalition by parties with nothing in common,and who hid their agenda during the last election.
For decades I fought long and hard to keep Quebec in Canada.I will be unlikely to do so again.This mess is not their fault,but if it's the only way the west is ever going to get a break,I say let them go.If they don't take Ontario with them,at least it will be easier for the west to get out too.
REPAIR OR ABOLISH THE SENATE !!! There is no democracy in Canada,now,and there cannot be one until that shameful institution is a thing of the past.
Maybe,after that,ALL regions of Canada can have some say in how tax dollars are flushed down the toilet.
And finally,thank you Liberal premier Gordon Campbell for having the guts to call the coalition exactly what it was.A left wing power grab.


mike Niagara Falls
said

What a disappointment ! A Liberal and Conservative agreeing on what is a bad deal!
If you have any doubts GM just opened their new PLANT in China I guess our tax dollars will create job in China ...bye bye Oshawa and
St Catharines...Thank you Mr McGuinty for waisting my TAX Dollars.


Lee
said

Furious. Speechless. Bankruptcy doesn't happen overnight. All this achieves is to reward poor business practices. I support a living wage for all Canadians, but from any angle, this disaster ultimately boils down to GREED and immediate gratification at the expense of science and innovation. Seriously, these companies provide a consumer WANT, not a NEED. If they fail, that's business. Move on. Another more suited will fill the void.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

@ Reece:
---------------------
"I've posted a comment many months ago suggesting that our country and world needs to work from a new economic system - a hybrid socialistic-capaitalist system. Guess what? Members of the UK gov't last night were hinting that capitalisim as we know it is finished and a new system of capitalist-socialisim is now being born from the "birth pangs" - called simply "The New Capitalism".
----------------------

Well, Reece, as one who thought you were all wet back then...I still think you've got the bull by the butt.

Throughout the Western world, for several decades, free-market capitalism has been strongly coupled with "socialism" in the form of progressive government taxation and government social welfare programs. It's time to get hip to the world you've already been living in.

The infusion of public money into the private sector that you're now witnessing is a direct result of weak, fearful, and uninformed politicians and citizens being compelled to disrupt the natural workings of capitalism. We, as a foolish, gutless society, won't allow ourselves to suffer the consequences of greed and stupidity.

Capitalism has ALWAYS been bridled by government rules and regulations. American politicians (Democrats & Republicans) messed with those controls, and greedy mortgage bankers and international investors lit the stage on fire.

You (and, apparently, a couple British politicians) still don't get what got us here and what's sending us into an economic tailspin. "Socialism" (corporate welfare) will only buy us out of this mess at a huge price – massive, prolonged, crippling debt. The answer simply lies in fixing what was broken; not inventing some new kooky system with a twist of semantics.

The “system” isn’t changing. You’re just watching politicians give away our hard-earned money…like they always do…except, this time, it’s in bigger truckloads.


Elizabeth S. Hutton
said

I don't know why the keep calling it the "big 3" when Ford is not doing too bad in comparison! I believe Ford has kept up with the times... the evidence is in some of their new cars advertized.

Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

As a staunch conservative, I just felt a twinge of deep regret. This is pure rubbish, and a sign none of the present batch of politicians deserves a vote...from anyone but their immediate family and cronies.

This will not solve any problems; will not result in repayment; and merely shifts the inevitable adjustments a tad further down the road, prologonging the recessionary impact.

Foolishness all around.

Though, for those Harper-haters out there...this is a multi-party heap of rubbish. I doubt the conservatives would have been so free with public money against taxpayer will, had they a majority.


Mark
said

Nostradamn

"cars that nobody wants"

Some facts now:
-GM outsold Toyota by 1.2 million vehicles in the US
-Ford outsold Honda by 850000 vehicles and Nisan by 1.2 million
Gm makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion which were both rated higher than the Camry by JD powers.

There are many more facts like this and could go on and on. Maybe all you big 3 haters should do the research and maybe all those losers who think that the foreign auto makers make better products and did the research and bought domestically the big 3 would be in better shape. Unfortunately far 2 much stuff is made overseas, but when you have the opportunity to support the local economy we should. I do not work for any auto company or supplier of an auto company, but IU will continue to by a car from the big 3, they are making quality cars at better prices from the foreign automakers and hopefully I am keeping my neighbors employed.

Just a question how much did the Ontario government give Toyota to build in Woodstock? I am sure they gave them some incentive's.




Keep whipping, the mule's almost dead
said

Everyone keeps bashing the CAW. They didn't cause the recession, nor did the "Big 3".
Without a bailout,thousands if not millions would be jobless. That would probably include YOU.Try looking at the big picture people. It's a LOAN not a grant.It will be paid back, your taxes won't go up.


Mark M
said

My GMC Pick-up with 16,800 km's on it DID NOT START this morning to get me to work...I last used it last night!

I then hopped into my 1992 Acura Vigor (which I am selling BTW, although now maybe not) which has been sitting outside since the fall and covered in a foot of snow and guess what??? It started right up and brought me to work.

THAT is the problem with NA vehicles...and I didn't even get into the problems my truck has already had! I will NEVER, and I mean EVER own a "big 3" vehicle again!!!


don hames
said

So the CAW think the problem is unfair trade.Does the union really think that taxpayers will stand for restricting their competion so that we are forced to buy Canadian Yugos and put up with the CAW's huffing and puffing about their productivity and how hard they work


Keith
said

This labour issue is really out of control. I agree the unions will have to help, but the real problems are at the top. You can't pay everything out in stock dividend and executive bonuses. You need to keep operating cash. The $70 dollar myth is nuts. I really can't beleive people think this is true. Check out the video on the uaw website. Are the unions conveying this message? Or is the media promoting the anti union propaganda? The average auto worker in the US earns $28 an hour.


Rhonda Pick Enderby BC
said

Economy,Enviorment,Red Tape,Unions,Opinions, so called experts,that answer a question with,Now thats a good question.Please clarify this to me............Isn't this a world recession?(nice word for depression)Political brickering,is'nt going to fix this mess...........iF WE DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS TO THE PROBLEMS.......lET THOSE THAT ARE TRYING TO FIX THEM dO THEIR JOB.As for Hargrove,you have brainwashed the CAW members enough,You'll take them all down, then again you 'll have your pockets lined.


Aldy
said

It took many years for the Big Three to develop the poor reputation for quality that caused myself and others to finally wake up and buy a Japanese car (made in Canada and the United States, by the way). I don't care what country the head office is in but I only buy quality cars made by North Americans. Management is responsible for the demise of the Big Three, not the employees. It is they who gave in to Union demands that resulted in inflated benefit packages and it is they who accepted poor quality cars. They appear now to see the errors of their ways but unfortunately Canadian workers and the Canadian public will pay for what may be a failed bail out. My sympathy is with the employees. Hopefully new and more cost efficient companies will result as we muddle our way through the next few years.


no job, no wage, no demand
said

I was taught that in the great depression that the big 3 played big part in improving things for the Americans. They put people to work and gave them a decent enough wage that they could buy the product they were making. Hence creating demand. Maybe some of the problems today is that in order to cut costs, they have moved much of the work into Mexico and India where they only have to pay $3/hr and have cut out jobs in the US and Canada where they were paying $40/hr. The problem is the Mexicans and Indians can't afford their product and hense not demand is created. Those who lose high paying jobs if they cannot find another job of equal value, can no longer afford to buy their product either and demand falls even lower. This applies to many industries. In the nineties there was a big push to move manufacturing overseas into cheap labor markets. The problem is that a few top executives make a lot of money but the average joe loses his job. Those workers hired overseas can't buy the products and as jobs are lost eventually Canadians and Americans can't either. Demand falls and companies can't move their product. Suddenly the high priced execs start to get worried and call for a bailout. Maybe it time to move jobs back to North America, maybe it time to take a pay cut, starting with a big one to CEO's and bank execs. Maybe if the Unions would follow suit they could help save what is left of manufacturing in North America and perhaps even expand it. Its just a thought.


JS
said

Canada Goose Whistler

How about the 62% that didn't vote for Harper? Harper is only doing what the Liberals, NDP, and the Bloc wanted. They threatened to defeat the government so they can do the same thing. How much do you think they would have given the car companies? I think it would have been much more than $4 billion. Would YOU b*tch and complain then?


Andrew Chobaniuk
said

The west's money paying for Ontario's terrible economy yet again, when's this going to stop?

I'm for SEPERATION, but not for Quebec, for Western Canada!


Iggy for PM
said

Bottom line folks:The Reformists/Conservatives under S.Harper are in power and should/will wear the consequences from this whole situation.



Alem Asfaw
said

This is just business as usual. Bailout of a failing industry is putting tax payers money into a black hole.


Jake
said

Yes!!!!
Don't you know what this means people.....next summer we will be getting 3 for 1 Dodge Durangos and Calibers (man did that car fall out of the ugly tree). Seriously though, where are they going to put all of these cars very few people want?


Shan
said

$70 per hour comes from the CAW itself. The CAW economist Jim Standford is quoted:

"With the Canadian dollar at par, CAW hourly wage and benefit costs of $75 to $80 an hour are $5 to $10 higher than the $70 (U.S.) to $80 figures in the United States," Mr. Stanford said.

The CAW better get with the program and understand that their $150,000 per year of income and benefits is way out of wack with the rest of Canadians and we less fortunate folks don't want our hard-earned tax dollars going to their pockets. No way!

Calgary Voter
said

I guess they should bail out every canadian that is behind on student loans or taxes too then. the financial colapse trickles down and so should the bailout benefits. What do you think the big 3 auto manufacturers are going to do with the money?. Are the CEO's going to take pay cuts? NO. They are going to lay off thousands of Canadian workers and outscource more labour to reduce production costs.
Maybe they could do what the rest of us have to do when we get in a financial pinch. Cut back our spending and suck it up. Any other small business would be shut down by now and a handout from the government would be not even considered. As they would tell you if you asked " the government does not bail out busnesses that fail" I know this because I experienced it myself when my business failed.


If GM sold more cars than Toyota,
said

then it must be BAD MANAGEMENT that causes GM to need a BAILOUT.

Sickening TO Watch
said

M M B Ont, has it completely right. Canada has become a country of me me me. People have had it waaay too good for waay too long. There is absolutely nothing that Harper could have done that would be good enough for the left leaning voters in this country.
When the defecit comes, don't blame Harper.....it was this "coalition" that forced his hand. In the end it will be the wrong move.
I will never in my life vote for any party that was part of that coalition ...LEGAL OR NOT. Liberals and NDP have both sold out their values on hate and revenge. At least the Bloc has it's agenda and is true to it.
This moey will only patch this , and it will fail in time.


$133.00 . . . There goes my GST two cents.
said

No more for you, Harper.

Workers, don't take any cut in wages.
said

The companies will survive and pay you.

Or the companies will die.

Either way, I win.

ET
said

Maybe the big 3 employees should take a pay cut from $70 and hour. With the pay cut, maybe, we as consumers would be able to afford vehicles at reasonable prices or maybe lets give the money to the RCMP who protect the country. It's pretty bad when auto workers make more money then the people who protect us.

Frustrated
said

If the auto workers themselves are solely to blame for all the auto industry woes as so many of you have implied or outright stated, please explain this to me: What about the auto plants that laid off a shift worth of workers (or more) in order to save money, but have not laid off ONE single manager?? Doesn't happen you say? It sure as hell does! I just lived it! (or rather, I am living it...laid off since April)

Bottom line…NOBODY is blameless in this mess. The corporations must cut management & executive staff and their salaries by at least 40 - 50% or more. THEN, come back to the CAW, and negotiate. I'm sure they'd be more receptive then.


Too many tress to see the forest
said

Am i the only one that missed it? Only two of the WORLD'S car makers are at the gov trauf.....So this is not as bad as every says??
No matter how you slice it unionized workers making even 25 dollars an hour is out rageous!
Nurses with degrees are making that amount... oh yeah did i mention they are unionized as well, not to mention they are in charge of giving our family members life saving medications not just turning bolts.
As for those who say it is hard to get a job in one of the plants..... get life, we all know those who know get, hence why there is a question on the application asking if you have family or friends working with the company.... okay i spent my monies worth,


Leigh,Alberta
said

Overpaid and bad management.
Overpaid workers for skill required to assemble cars.
Will the CAW give up Spa days?
Waste of taxpayers money.


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said

Funny I don't see anyone from the Liberals, NDP or Bloc screaming about this....Let's see 4 billion divided by the population of Canada -- it's only a couple of hours wages -- if you make a CAW wage... Of course it would be about a week's wages for the minimum wage underclass.

Keith
said

Hey Shan, nobody is denying the 70 figure. But what people seem to think is that it for wages. Wages in the US are $28 average. The $70 figure is the total amount paid out for wages, benefits and pension, then the pension and benefits of all retirees are added. Then they took this number and divided it by the number of people working. You would probably get a higher number if you did this for the entire population....Did these companies not put the money while people were working into a pension plan? No. So the math is false and therefore almost a lie. Seriously you should watch the video from MSNBC that is on the UAW website......Did anyone consider the income tax paid by 500,000 workers not touching on GST or the obvious spinoff.


dmac
said

IMO: This is a mistake and it is as much or more political expediency as it is societal need that is driving this give-a-way. This is not a loan; once the money is disbursed it is gone. The opportunity to strengthen our economy in a considered manner is gone, it disappeared when the Conservatives were unable to attain a majority government in the last election. The next hit was when Mr. Harper chose to dissolve Parliament instead of letting the three stooges dissolve our political system. I feel strongly that if Parliament had voted down the government at that time we would have had another election which would have resulted in the strong majority government we absolutely need right now. Instead what we will have is a conciliatory government kowtowing to the hysterical mob and spreading more borrowed money around to the self entitled, marketing manipulated zombie population Canada appears to now comprise of. See, I am so peed off about the whole thing that I finished my sentence with a preposition.
Mr. Harper should have had a government strong enough to do what the German and Danish governments are doing, holding firm against the money mill, instead we are going to be stuck with more debt. We must open our eyes to the realization that much the capital which supports this money is diminishing in value.

mikado
said

The bailout will have a negative effect on the economy. The only viable option is managed bankrutcy, that would void existing union contracts with the DetroitThree.

Say no to unions
said

Canada has enough labor laws and health care benefits already. The unions are only a excuse for higher wages which we pay for dearly! Bust the unions and come back to earth.


BR Cassidy Kanata
said

This is for Glen from Hamilton:
I hope you don't drive a Ford Focus because it was probably made in Mexico. And yes we need Toyotas because as an example the Corolla is one of the few excellent cars one could consider "Green" for fuel efficiency at resonable average person purchasability, not to mention reliability. Canadians are making import cars here and that is a good thing. Just look at the public response to these bail outs. Most are not in support of them. These companies must compete or fail. That is the world reality today. We should view good companies as leaders for the rest to follow and emulate. We should not put them down for doing their best. So no shame here just accolades for good companies.



common cents
said

Sad when taxes from mim. wage earners go to pay the elite wages of the whiney union.


Albert M from Burlington
said

These aren't "loans," they are GRANTS. What future government in ther right minds will demand those "loans" back and have the supposed "Thousands" go out of work? It would be political suicide and the car company execs know this. It is too bad the conservatives do not have a majority, or I think things would be looking very different and there would be be more conditions on the loans...sorry, grants. Come on election!!

Layton B in NB
said

The misguided 'labour haters' on this blog are just dead wrong. The workers on the shop floor don't decide to have 3/4 of their models SUVs, the guy on the floor doesn't decide what models to sell or not sell. The workers didn't create the credit crisis all over the world. You know Toyota will likely run a deficit this year? This is an industry wide problem that affected the North American companies more than others simply due to short sightedness of the Brass of these companies.


bruce in renfrew
said

what about toyota?

what about honda???

di d they come cap in hand? di they come begging for money?

did they come sayng...oh please help us?

no! They are non-unionized...they practice good sound management practices...they anticipate market conditions..and they will now be watching their chief competitors get a nice little bail out from the government as they just open another plant in the Woodstock region...nie evn playing ground...NOT!!


Angus
said

"Not over paid", That is the biggest line of Bull_____ I have ever heard. Most people with similar skill levels are getting $10 an hour and no benefits. The unions have played a major role in the financial problems of the Big Three.


Conservative Mike
said

Hey "Socialist Harper blowing money on corporate cronies" Here's a word of advice:

Better not support the Coalition then...


Earl
said

Nanaimo,
I don't have a problem with the bailout with the auto industry, what I do have a problem with is GM Canada's committment of 67 Million dollars to the 2010 Olympics, this should now be recinded if they get government ( The People of Canada's ) help.
It also looks like the Money is going to Vehicles which the Vanoc is using as prices for the BC lottery Corporation.


Alysha Ont
said

First let's all applaud FORD! They DON'T WANT any money so people pay attention, it is just the Big "2". Secondly, quit rapping about the quality of vehicles the companies make. There are lemons in every company! Let's focus on this financial 'help' the big 2 will be getting to keep the workers working. As much as I hate to see taxpayers money being used to bail out any company, I am afraid it has to be done. I am just glad that Harper did not go any higher with the bucks. If a company is in financial troubel, the cuts MUST start AT THE TOP! Let's start with the CEO, the Managers etc who all earn the big salaries and the bonuses! This is where the 'fat' is in any system ! Unless the management gets cleaned up and their salaries reduced and the bonuses eliminated, the financial problem will still exist! And let's add in a few layoffs from the senior management as well. That should help save a million or more ! Let's also trim back on the fancy office suites that they inhabit each day ! Not all restructuring should be done on the backs of the worker's. And please let us find out the true wage of a CAW worker.. all benefits included !
I would hope that our PM and the Liberal Premier would not give this money freely to help save the BIG 2 without expecting and demanding full accountability of how the money was used. If anyone is concerned about this fact, don't hesitate to write Harper and the Premier of Ontario to re inforce this point.


Pathetic
said

Hey I guess when I have my own business that is struggling because I make crap product, charge way too much for it, and pay my employees a ridulous salary for what they actually do, I can run to Ottawa with my hands open as well.

This is pathetic. Big - 3, how about making good, reliable, fuel effeciant, eco-friendly cars for a change. Or stop using your private jets to fly to meetings where you're begging for money.

No one bail-out package was offered to my father when his business failed.

Pathetic


wade
said

what would most of you who are opposed to the bail out package have harper do? Risk having the auto companies go bankrupt causing which in turn would cause hundrends of thousands of related job losses. The money one way or another will be rolled back inbto the economy.


VagnF
said

Thanks guys. Keep wasting my tax dollars on declining industries to save your votes. Ontario gets 21 extra common seats and then this. Give me a break.I wonder how many jobs this is actually going to save. So with the price of oil falling where is the bailout for the West?


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