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Harper, McGuinty announce $4B auto bailout package
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Sat. Dec. 20 2008 8:55 PM ET
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty have announced a $4-billion aid package for Canada's struggling auto industry.
They said Canada's bailout, which they called a "short term loan," is proportionate to the Detroit Three's Canadian operations, which are estimated to be about 20 per cent of North American production.
The two leaders announced the package on Saturday morning at a joint press conference in Toronto.
Ontario will contribute about $1.3 billion to the package and Ottawa will provide $2.7 billion.
Harper told reporters the aid package "is not a blank cheque" and that he wants to see the car companies and their unions work together to restructure their operations.
"All stakeholders are going have to be part of the solution," Harper said.
The aid package will also:
- give loan access to auto-parts manufacturers and other businesses that are part of the auto supply industry
- give additional credit to consumers
GM and Chrysler had said they need credit and loans as they restructure their companies.
Meanwhile, Ford has said it does not need immediate help, but had asked for a line of credit.
Harper said the aid package was part of a "holistic approach" to save an industry that helps provide hundreds of thousands of jobs to Canadians.
He said governments need to act, especially in the wake of the financial sector economic crisis. The auto industry has been particularly hard hit by the credit crunch, which affected their consumers' access to loans.
An auto industry failure would have ripple affects well beyond Ontario, the centre of Canada's car manufacturing sector, Harper said.
"This is a huge problem that faces the Ontario economy and the Canadian economy by extension and it is critical that we work together," he said.
McGuinty said the economic crisis has created the need for bold action.
"These are extraordinary circumstances that require extraordinary measures," he said.
Today's announcement came on the heels of the proposed US$17.4 billion in aid to automakers that U.S. President George Bush announced on Friday.
Ontario NDP leader Howard Hampton said the loan package should suffice for now, but it would have been more useful had it been handed down earlier.
As credit has tightened, it has become harder for every part of the industry to function, said Hampton.
He added that everyone from buyers to car dealers, to the automakers themselves, need access to credit in order to keep the industry running.
"We saw that happening weeks ago," he said.
If the money had been handed down at that time, "it would have made an even bigger difference," Hampton said.
Auto industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers estimated that the combined loan packages from Canada and the U.S. would help keep the struggling North American automakers afloat only for the next quarter or so.
"It probably only buys them three months or four months where they can get their ducks in order ... and hopefully come up with a plan to get everything straightened out so that they can survive," he told CTV Newsnet on Saturday evening.
GM Canada spokesperson David Paterson said the Canadian response will provide a "great sigh of relief" across the industry, noting that the loans will help his company complete a transition it began in 2005. He said GM is moving towards creating more energy efficient cars, including hybrids and electric vehicles.
Paterson added that the bailouts show a "great signal of stability" for the industry.
$70 per hour?
Canadian Auto Workers president Ken Lewenza told CTV Newsnet the aid package is good for Ontario and the country.
He said he's pleased that the bailout includes commitments by the car makers about Canada's production share.
"I think the commitment of maintaining the production share in Canada at the existing level is a fairly good commitment," Lewenza.
"As long as we maintain our share in the Canadian market, which is part of this loan, I think we'll be part of the future investment and will continue to work with the
companies."
Paterson indicated that GM's plans are to continue production at the current level.
"Our plans for Canada right at the moment are to see us continue on at that (20 per cent) level, and this type of support, as we work out the details, will give us the ability to continue on roughly at that level," he said.
Meanwhile, Lewenza took issue with critics of union auto workers who have said they make too much money -- some quoting the questionable figure of more than $70 per hour, which has never applied to Canadian workers and has been debunked by some industry analysts.
He said "that based on our productivity" Canadian workers are as competitive as -- and more efficient than -- any other North American and foreign car producers.
"It's a little bit frustrating to concentrate on workers," he said.
He also reminded critics that only three months ago, Canadian unions had worked out a collective agreement that included wage freezes, and holiday and other concessions to help the auto companies.
He said he wants Ottawa to "concentrate on the root cause of the problem. We still think the root cause of the problem is unfair trade," he said.
Buzz Hargrove, former CAW president, called the Canadian aid package "good news for their workers and their families."
But he also said he was concerned that Harper told reporters that "everyone" will have to make concessions.
"Labour costs are not the problem," he told CTV Newsnet.
But Hargrove noted that the current union leadership will have to decide how to proceed to help make the Canadian auto industry economically viable in the years ahead.
Eddie Francis, the mayor of Windsor, Ont., which has been home to GM, Chrysler, and Ford plants, said, "There will be job losses ... it's something that is going to happen."
But he added, it's better to have some job losses rather than "not having the industry at all."
DesRosiers said it was inevitable that the unions would have to make concessions, no matter how painful they might be.
"If they don't make serious concessions, then GM, Ford and Chrysler will continue to lose market share and they'll lose their jobs anyway," he said.
He said it is likely unions will be asked to make concessions on selected perk benefits -- such as selected, non-holiday, paid absences and access to a legal defense fund -- before they are asked to take any wage cuts.
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.


Comments are now closed for this story
Ontario man
said
Glen
said
Tom
said
Socialist Harper blowing more taxpayer money
said
Cambob
said
Well if the companies go bankrupt, there won't any labour costs. So maybe when this idiot realizes the union is part of the problem, maybe they can be part of the solution.
Nostradamn
said
The fish stinks from the head down and I'm talking about both the union heads and CEO's of the auto industry. ALL FAT CATS.
Jeremy from Kitchener
said
Gord in Regina Sask
said
diane m.
said
John
said
Wes
said
Natasha
said
Doug
said
John Taxpayer
said
Jack01
said
All they are going to do is race through the money; everyone will get bonuses; no-one will take pay cuts (executives or union members); it will get them through Christmas and then what will happen from January to December 2009?
There is no talk of re-structuring, amalgamating the three companies or anything.
Doesn't "Canada" get a say on where, when and how much money we are willing to pay these companies? Where is the copy of their proposals for us to see and make them accountable, on what they plan to do with the money?
Employees, move, get another job before it's too late. Think yourselves and your families, not the "Big Three". Do you think the "Big Three" care about their employees?
Canada Goose Whistler
said
I'm buying a new truck today, it will be a foreign one but not one of the 3 bankrupt foreign truck manufactures.
roy
said
JWM
said
PS - CAW's you better think hard a fast about your commitment to gaining access to Cdn tax dollars. Assembling cars for $35/hr give me a break. Skilled labour? LMAO
I sincerely hope you screw it up for your members.
Detroit 3 supplier
said
These workers need to buy excessive brand new toys every year instead of settling for used.
Meanwhile the parts suppliers are going bankrupt due to price reductions we are forced by the Detroit 3.
I believe the unions continue to get wage increases every year while non for parts suppliers.
Stanislaw Dzudsjak
said
Bruce in London
said
There is probably enough fat in the work rules area to make thier Companies more productive without having to reduce thier hourly wage.This of course would protect jobs going forward.
One thing Canadians will not stand for is the protection of all CAW benefits at the expense of tax payers who make less than these Union members.
Over to you Ken!!
Jason
said
(I WAS a auto parts supplier and lost my job last May as our Plant was moved to Quebec)
John from Oshawa
said
If the "Big3" go out of business,
said
Okay, I'm over it.
Let's move on -- without the "Big3."
JRH from LA
said
You hit the nail on the head! I can't believe this idiot thinks that labor costs are not a huge part of the the Big 3's problems. When uneducated workers that turn a bolt in a car all day earn $70/hour with benefits, that's not overpaid? I guess I have to remember that unions never think their workers are overpaid! Just think; if the autoworkers would take a $1/hour paycut (assuming normal 40 hour work weeks)times the 500,000 workers, the automakers would save over $900 million a year! Considering the bailout package is $4 billion, the labor costs are obviously not a part of the problem?! Give me a break! In select cases, unions are organizations that hold back economic growth! Just look at Quebec's sputtering economy!
Labor costs are not the problem.
said
Harper joins the SOCIALISTS to solve the problem.
Brian
said
DC in AB
said
Gord
said
Harper cracks and crawls. Good socialist, Harper.
said
$4 Billion for nothing I don't think so
said
Bottom line in all of this is, if management and the union aren't willing to make concessions then pull the funding and let them starve.
Doug in Dartmouth
said
Alan
said
PeterS
said
Mark
said
The Unions rhetoric will soon lead to concessions because all of this money is just a drop in the bucket as to what the car companies will require over the next 18 months. Two months from now they will need more bailout money and unless the US and Canadian governments see everyone cooperating with restructuring there will be no money just Bankruptcy and no more overpaid jobs.
Either way Chrysler will likely be toast and swallowed up by GM and or Ford.
Good for Ford for the time being lasting it out without requiring bailout money.
Dane
said
out of mine and every other Canadians pocket today.
Overseas Taxpayer
said
Samual
said
The money is gone in a month how are we going to get it back?
I buy Japanese cars. I don't buy junkmobiles.
said
Gilbert, Quesnel, BC
said
Dane
said
MD
said
I've voted Conservative most of my life but I think it will be a spoiled ballot next time.
RCR in Ontario
said
Brad
said
davey boy
said
Reece
said
To those that posted back then I was no expert...I TOLD YA SO!
Jonah
said
Overworked underpayed...........
said
Hmmmm maybe to auto union needs to rethink there wages because if they do not they may be out of a job altogether. Making some concessions would show Canadians that the $4Billion dollars was worth investing....
Richard Lawton
said
By buying Japanese, I voted against GM Chrysler
said
If I wanted to support those companies, I would buy their products.
STOP STEALING MY MONEY!
Tomko
said
DJT
said
Yes I agree.
And I object using my tax dollars (and a big percentage of Canadians agree as well) bailing out companies that produces vehicles that are not selling, if these companies produced vehicles that the average Joe could use then perhaps they would not be in the position they are in now. They could still produce the Gas Guzzlers in smaller quantities.
I have a VW Jetta TDI that runs on Diesel gets 57 MPG, seats 5, has 8 airbags and in 4 years has had no faults, If I need a Pick up Truck I rent one for the day. The VW dealers have a waiting list for new units, this to me says it all.
Spendthrift
said
Jon the Skeptic
said
Gregg
said
Goldens
said
John Wilson
Bridgetown NS
Carling in Ottawa
said
I would like to think we will get this issue resolved and the Big 3 will produce vehicles that rival Honda quality. My mom traded in a Mercedes C class for a Honda Accord because the Benz was problematic and they also ripped her off $27. on two occasions just to change a rear light bulb. People are fed up with being taken for granted by the auto industry.
We want good quality vehicles at reasonable prices that LAST.
GP
said
LET THEM FAIL AND THEN RESTRUCTURE
Anthony
said
But Harper said the spending is necessary to insulate Canadians from the deteriorating economic climate, and he stressed that the deficit would only exist in the short-term. "What will be more realistic in terms of the kind of stimulus our economy will need, is going to be in the $20 to $30 billion range," he said. "These are the policies we must adopt under these circumstances."
Mr. Harper, don't be naive $30 billions will probably be spend just on automakers over time, for as Mr.Lewenza (CAW) says:
CAW says it won't budge on compensation - “This isn't about wages and benefits of workers,”
Mr. Lewenza said in an interview. “We could work for nothing and we wouldn't sell another vehicle.”
Right he is, I would not buy one ! Why ? They will be greasing their packets from taxpayers money, one way or the other, anyway.
Merry Christmas !
Charlie F
said
Buzz off !
said
Enjoy retirement... good timing!
Annette
said
Zach
said
clb
said
dorothy mcdonnell
said
A band-aide sloution of a main atery bleed is no solution at all. Road-kill is on the horizon for at least one, if not two of the Big Three automotive. With this bailout, the big year-end bonuses of the top are secured..Merry Christmas, perhaps not a Happy New Year, tho', when the next bail-out is demanded and surely that will be the case!!! The band-aide tree may be empty!!!!!
Brett
said
Absolutely labour costs are a PART of the problem - and even more important is the productivity and the "that's not my job" attitude that is rampant in these plants.
People wonder what the difference is with Honda and Toyota workers making the same hourly...the difference is they have no union and therefore WORK their whole 8 hours and are productive and don't need 2-3 people (and 2-3 times the labour cost) to do what 1 person can do in a shift.
Tom in Calgary
said
Message to all partisans.
The failed coalition espoused exactly this and claimed this is what they wanted. Harper "had to behave as a minority" remember? Now he has backed off and said okay you want to throw money at it here you go. Its not good policy and no one is dumb enough to believe this is "Harper moving left".
The only good news is that both Harper and McGuinty backed off the idiotic notion of telling the manufacturers what cars to build. We don't want Lada's. The cars and trucks built in North America are popular and are good products with cleaner more economical engines developing every year.
They are right in asking the Unions to do their bit. No one deserves the benefit packages those people get. The wage is one thing but the days they can force business' to pay them when they aren't working is bizarre.
This is comprise. I'm conservative and not happy. Liberals and Dippers are writing in at this very moment and they aren't happy.
It must be right.
Marilyn in BC
said
Rob B. Oshawa
said
* is not a "gift bail out" is a secured loan.
*dont make vehicles that are reliable and economical,better do your homework,GM alone has won top awards in all classes, this is not the 80's now
*Dont build what the public wants, trucks alone here in Oshawa, keep the plant running 3 shifts and Sat.shift since 1993, no one wanted them? and thats not even counting what was produced in the other truck plants in the U.S.A.
*Wages are the problem? the last 9 years, the union has been giving back,ask someone who works there, when they had thier last pay raise.The year of the 3% raise, have been long over, the 0% is reality.
*Top heavy? Make 10"s of millions in the last few years, and now work for $1.00 this year, im not impressed, send back the cash for last 5 years, we'll know your serious.
*Im glad to see the Goverment, has finally "opened its eyes" the job lose would be over 1/2 a million workers, think we are seeing some hard times now, if that were to happen, the economy wouldnt recover.
* auto workers are lazy, this is such a statement, always by someone, who knows nothing of which they speak,go for a tour, if the plants remain open.
*these are some the facts as i understand them,i am an auto worker in Oshawa
Alberta Angel
said
Chris, Hamilton
said
Reece
said
Glen from Hamilton
said
complain all you want about why they're in this situation but we need them. MAYBE if everybody STOPPED buying toyotas we wouldn't be in this mess AT ALL!
Blames yourselves and shame on you!
fitzz
said
Let one or indeed all of the car makers fail. The CAW can try again with their free market successors.
Charlie
said
Gregg in Edmonton
said
I hope this injection will shut up the "idiotic left" that continue to criticize our Conservatives for not doing anything. Reality was Harper couldn't do anything until he knew what the US was going to do. He, at least, said there would be a bailout package offered depending on what the Americans did which helped out our markets and consumer confidence a bit.
Drew in NS
said
I bet he'll be on in 20 Minutes or so taking credit for the bailout, calling Harper incensitive to the working family. This is no where near enough money to save the auto industry.
Give it a rest Jack, Leave running the country to the people who wear the big boy pants.
Charlie
said
BC forester
said
NB Observer
said
Doug BC
said
These companies will be back for more money in the spring.In the USA,they are talking about another $120 billion dollars in March.If McGuinty and Harper are going to buy into that scheme too,we will be out another $30-$40 billion.
If you think this is a reasonable price for an economic stimulus,the next question becomes "what about all the other workers and industries in the country"??
Did we just spend more than a decade lowering debt and reducing taxes just to bail out Ontario auto workers? A province,by the way,that has yet to figure out that deficit spending and big taxes are a sure path to ruin.
I truly hope this band aid stops the bleeding.I fear the taxpayers have not heard the end of these demands,that there is still no market for most Canadians products,and that taxpayer money is going to be the addictive to a lot more failing businesses.
In short,the global economy is in deep do-do,and there is little any Canadian can do about it other than try to mitigate the damage at home.
In truth,Liberals should thank their lucky stars that they lost the last election.
Foolishness
said
anti-tax dude
said
Craig
said
I'm neither a Liberal or a Conservative but they are doing the right thing by assisting the industry but at the same time taking a stake in it. Hopefully they will force the big three to merge and cut the fat (*there's a lot of fat to be cut)
Also labour in this case is easy to blame as they have become greedy. Yes they made some concessions in the past but they were also allowed to get the the position where they are hurting the cooperation and the industry, to the point of collapse. The owners and execs also dont seem to understand the industry at all anymore and they are making decisions which hurt them or are acting too late.
Hopefully the reforms will correct these mistakes.
Good going Harper and McGuinty
Drew in NS
said
I just don't understand where a 45 year old hard working taxpayer working at Tim Horton's for just over mimimum wage has to bail out the Big 3, all this to ensure the Auto workers can keep there $70/hr pay check and Spa Days.
I will be boycotting NA cars until the Big 3 Exec's and Union Big Wigs and their minions start ponying up to the table and sacrificing parts of their wages and benifits.
Ray Luft
said
DW
said
One need look no further than the FLOODING of these comment boards with right-wing, anti-union, pro-Harper messages.
38% of Canadians voted for Harper. I, personally, find it hard to believe that 100% of those are behind him enough to scream "RAH! RAH! HARPER!" on message boards. Yet roughly 70%-80% of messages on here seem to be right wing oriented.
How can this be? Ask yourself if it might be possible that a concentrated group of right-wingers whose sole purpose is to influence society to their own benefit could be making multiple postings from various email addresses.
Things are not always what they seem. Unions are working to increase the standard of living of EVERYONE, not just themselves.
a making do senior
said
Paul in Brantford
said
bananas
said
Ralph
said
LABOUR IS THE PROBLEM
said
The CAW President, the greedy guy who has lined his pockets states Harper blames the workers. This guy has to go. Why should us taxpayers have to suffer due to a corrupt union. The workers have to take a pay cut or have no job, of course the union doesn't want this as they still want to line their pockets. The CAW will not support the workers due to being greedy. This problem would be resolved if it wasn't for the CORRUPT UNION. If only we could get rid of all unions Canada would be the best place on earth.
Think twice before ever voting NDP if they were in power we would all be destitute, we wouldn't be able to put food on the table, like Taliban Jack states but only refers to the union employees.It is so obvious NDP supports the union as he is just as corrupt as them and the same goes to anyone that supports NDP
Let's just get the economy going. Harper is the only one that will do this. He is for us Canadian taxpayers.
Chris Hodgson in Ontariariari-Oh!
said
They are just LUCKY this time, don't PUSH it!
said
Maybe he thought his bubby Bush already said it loud and clear!
I do agree with the credit problem, global economic downsize,unsucessful marketing strategy - miscalculate production promotions combine with over pay CEO and excess numbers of retire employee and current payroll format for union employees etc.
But Honda and Toyota still having the same difficulties but yet they don't need a loan from both Governments! HONDA DON'T HAVE U-N-I-O-N EITHER!
But as an employee, don't you ALL want the company to success?? If your CEO already giving up his PRIVATE JET and use the product for travlling - wouldn't it something that the union members and shareholders can GIVE UP and save the company?
If they are still thinking of having another shoot with President Obama after Jan. 20, 2009, I honestly sugguest them SAVE THEIR BREATHE!
That poor guy have so much to deal with on his plate, you guys just take a number and wait on the line!
Besides, both countries already did eveything against the taxpayers' wish and gamble on it.
Have some brain cell and think of it logically, not emotional. Work it out somehow! You union member, CEO, designers - all of you employees have to work it out as a team and proof it to us that we are wrong!
Welcome to the REAL WORLD! CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY AND COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS!STOP COMPLAINING!
If you guys are living or working in any Asian countries, YOUR JOB WILL BE REPLACED by anybody WITHIN MINUTUES! NEVER MIND ABOUT any UNION TALK! THEY DON'T LIKE IT AND THEY DON'T WELCOME IT! YOU GUYS ARE dame lucky IN CANADA!!!!!
Mary Clarke
said
Maybe the Cons. Party should have just raided the E.I. funds to pay for this.-The good old Liberal way.
Alex from Laval
said
But From a person who ran from his responsibilities as a prime Minister Mr. Harper.
FUIGURES he would just give out the money with out restrictions ...hes afarid of the backlash
Wekll watch out now that you are free
Free MONEY for everyone ...car manufacturers and banks and oil comopanies ...how about the rest of canadians we all need money now ??21 new senators ??
The next Election we will resolve your problems ...and LIES...
John C. Hastings
said
Trust Steve (Canada has nothing to worry about) Harper gets the Union Concessions prior to writing any cheques.
If the $70. plus per hour is not correct the unions should publish the exact pay scales plus benefits for all to see
Robert L
said
Brandon, Alberta
said
Shan
said
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
I have always driven North American cars, used one of course -- because new cars are very over-priced -- but one has to support those parts manufactures in China.
Chris
said
I'm not completely opposed to some sort of bail out for the automakers, if for no other reason than to allow us time to find work for people caught in the collapse of the industry, but this really should have been a case of our politicians dragging the heads of the Big 3 into an office in Ottawa or Toronto and saying "Look guys, this has been coming for a decade now. What's your plan? How are you going to use these funds to protect Canadian citizens and interests?"
John Black Ontario
said
I would suggest that anyone in these trying times who has a few Bucks to spare to go out and buy as much Honda,Toyota and Hyundai stock because when Joe Public eventually unleashes the purse string these three companies are going to be hard put to cater for demand...............
Kevin in Toronto
said
Orwellian Watcher
said
Steve in Aylmer
said
This companies built themselves and survived on unsustainable practises.
The automobile industry is a joke.
Why should this industry be bailed out?
4 billion dollars for what?
Now we have companies on welfare, great news.
MuskyBuck
said
They are missing the point, which is why Harper is a horrible leader.
Or a Fascist Theocracy leader as Frank Zappa would have labelled him.
A man who would spend his time throwing money at an obviously corrupt and broken system of business, is by all definition an idiot.
Take your pick, we already know what calibre of thinker Bush and his cabinet of soon to be tried war criminals are...
When will the rest of you wake up to realize this Leave it to Beaver era state puppet is not good for us.
LP4
said
BR Cassidy Kanata
said
jjaycee98
said
Now why is that? A better product? Better management? Employee lines that produce in exchange for their pay?
John Black Ontario
said
"Things are not always what they seem. Unions are working to increase the standard of living of EVERYONE, not just themselves."
My God, ......... What planet is this person On! .........
dave
said
Questions for Bob. B, Oshawa - union member
said
Have you been in the plant for more than 8 years?
My step son just got a verbal layoff. He's been working in Oshawa for 8 years. His last day is Dec. 23. when ask when will he be call back - INDEFINITE!
Yes, you guys made good trucks and cars and ALL EXPORT TO UNITED STATES while they used to have a HOUSE - A GARGAGE, A JOB! Now, THEY GOT NOTHING!
Look at the PARKING LOT - 4 months' supply of cars in ANY dealership. ALL BRAND NEW 2009! SO MUCH THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE TO STICK IT!
If you run a business as a boss, don't you want to CLEAR ALL YOUR INVENTORY AND COLLECT ALL THE CASH FIRST BEFORE THEY TURN ON THE BUTTON AND PRODUCE MORE PRODUCT!
That's the major problem! We are dealing with a global RECESSION - DEPRESSION. Nobody has a JOB! Can't even buy grocery!
Be thankful that you still have a PAY CHEQUE. One personal advise, use it wisely, nobody knows how many more paycheque you will be getting if you don't help out the company that you work with!
Use your logic and prove all of us we are wrong!
P.S. My husband is a USED CAR BUSINESS MANAGER for one of the General Motor Store. He can tell you how many customers he saw this month and how many customers did the bank approve their car loan! His pay down by 30% this year! Not his choice but being part of the team member for the company. We don't want it down but seems like you union members are not smelling the coffee YET!
James
said
John in Calgary
said
Unions had their day. They brought better working conditions, paid holidays, overtime, etc. But there comes a time when a job is done. These are all things that are recognized by government and enforced without Unions.
Now is the time to earn a wage because you're good at the job, not because 100,000 other people refuse to work unless they get that wage.
Darin
said
What were they thinking, while the imports companies were making more fuel efficient cars the North Am. motor companies decided to make a new line of gas guzzling muscle cars that nobody can afford to buy or drive (it's a No brainer).
cn't ncld vwlls
said
Red Deer Joe
said
Steve in Ottawa
said
Brent - Penticton, BC
said
OK, where do we go from here with over 20,000 woodworkers and loggers job losses and numerous saw/pulp mills shut down, and this has not JUST happened, this has been an ongoing problem for many years. If you think this is the worst that can happen to our forest industry, think again, as our American lumber manufacturing "friends" are in the process of challenging the terms of NAFTA and whatever other agreement we have over forestry/lumber due to low stumpage fees on "Pine beetle kill" logs. After this, it will be a "mad cow" event or a Saskatchewan potash perceived problem, and if you think Obama is going to step in and alleviate the problem you are wrong as he does not agree with NAFTA. It may take a while for all these to happen, but they will.
The true friendship of our two countries will be sorely tested and unfortunately for us , it is like "the tail wagging the dog".
Bring our troops home so they can defend our own border. Actually, just bring them home.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to ALL.
Mike
said
Harper went from zero need for stimulas to 30 billion in 5 weeks. Harper & his clowns have not a clue. The liberals had a plan let them form a government.
Larry I Ontario
said
Web Smith
said
If the economy was healthy and if the government had not been involved in attempting to regulate private industry causing the economy to collapse, it would be correct to think that the federal government should not be involved in bailing out private industry, including the banks, but since they did and are, they have made the taxpayers liable for the survival of private industry.
BS
said
Get your facts straight, ok? Auto workers earn roughly $32/hr. When these higher wage numbers are glibly tossed around, they include benefits, employers cost of Gov't deductions (EI, CPP, etc), and everything surrounding the cost of employment. I don't for a minute believe the $70/hr is accurate for the CAW workers. In the states it may be close, but not in Canada.
When you take your car to a mechanic, what do you think the guy working on the car actually makes?? Do you really think he makes the same $80 - $90/hr plus being charged by the shop? NO, HE DOES NOT. It’s more like $15 - 25/hr (depending on where he works). The difference between what he actually earns, and what's being charged by the shop, is the total cost to employ that mechanic, plus of course some profit.
The same thing is being done here. I don't pretend to know the exact cost to GM for the CAW workers, but the worker sure as hell does NOT earn $70/hr on his paycheck! Even at double time on a holiday, they don’t earn that much!!
Now... you want to talk about waste in the auto industry? ok, let's... What about the plants that laid off a shift worth of workers in order to save money, but have not laid off ONE single manager?? Doesn't happen you say? It sure as hell does! I just lived it!
Bottom line…NOBODY is blameless in this mess. The corporations must cut management (including executive) staff and their salaries by at least 40 - 50% or more. THEN, come back to the CAW, and negotiate.pretend to know the exact cost to GM for the workers, but the worker sure as hell does NOT earn $70/hr on his paycheck! Even at double time on a holiday, they do not earn $70/hr!!
Now... you want to talk about waste in the auto industry? OK, let's... What about the plants that have laid off a shift worth of workers in order to save money, but have not laid off ONE single manager?? Doesn't happen you say? It sure as hell does! I just lived it!
All that having been said. Is anyone blameless in this whole mess? No, I don't think so. I believe the corporations need to cut management and their salaries by at least 40% or more. THEN, by all means come back to the CAW and ask for some help to fix the problem. I do believe that some cuts should and could be made, but how about having the exorbitant salaries and bonuses of the execs cut in half, and reduce management by 40-50%. I'd bet that'll go a long way to fixing the problems!
Marc
said
How is this as an Idea!!! Every Other Canadian (Un-auto industry related)at Tax time keeps 1000$ for them selves....hey us un-unionized workers also need some sort of stimulus package!
Solidarity forever!
said
The fact is, one of the biggest costs in the price of a vehicle - far greater than the labour cost - is the saturation advertising the company does. How do you like paying 30% of your new car cost, just so the company who built it csn afford to brainwash you into buying it in the first place.
BTW CAW autoworkers MUST have a highschool diploma and pass a rigorous dexterity and spacial skill test that I doubt most of the "they only turn bolts" folks could pass.
But, as for arguments about how much anyone should get paid for the work they do? I'll submit that it's not only based on how hard your work is, or how skilled you need to be to do it. It's also based on how much value you add to the product/service you produce. In the case of autoworkers, this is ~$300,000/yr. That is 5 to 6 times the average of other manufacturing jobs. This is due to the inherent efficiencies of the assembly line process. Autoworkers don't believe that execs. and investors should reap the lion's share of that added value. They believe the consumer and those who do the work should share fairly in that value.
Claims the unions are the problem, or that they make too much, are based on ignorance and/or envy, nothing else.
Ben, Edmonton
said
Problem solved.
K
said
terry out west
said
Robinoxford
said
We've heard the US bailout and the Canadian bailout. Seems to me Mexico might just need to anti up. For some of these big 3 there are more plants in Mexico than Canada.
Ryan P.
said
Larry in Wpg
said
Pete
said
JS
said
GM should be allowed to declare bankrupcy. A few years ago, it was in the news that their pension liability was not sustainable. GM has to pay out too much for pensions, and the union says its not a worker problem. It was and is a worker and union problem for years, when they keep demanding for more and more till now that GM is on the verge of bankrupcy. The Big 3 can only suck so much money from the consumers, till the consumers say no more and go buy from another company, which is happening now. So, now the ball is in the CAW's court. What IS the CAW going to do with it?
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. The Big 3 and the CAW, just fooled Canadians once with the $4 billion. Will they come back for a second try?
Cal in Ottawa
said
Then there were the insane salaries paid to the people who drove the industry to near bankruptcy. The unions ensured the workers were well compensated as well. Now the gravy train is derailed, and Canada is left with plants, that for the most part, make these less fuel efficient vehicles. The smaller ones are made in the States or Mexico. Speaking of which I haven't seen Mexico offering monetary support.
I suspect this will be an other waste of our taxpayers dollars.
Isn't it strange how these companies say they swear by the free market until they fail then they want public money to fix their mistakes. Gotta love it. More fool the conservatives for forgetting their principles; they look more like liberals all the time!
Happy
said
Amanda from Alberta
said
Canada Goose Whistler
said
Rob
said
Sully
said
Miriam
said
Ex conservative.
said
It's just amazing how his tune has changed since the coalition threat and prorogation.
And to think that a couple of weeks ago a surplus was predicted by the Reform Party.
Brenda
said
Don from NB
said
Mercedes in Calgary
said
Katie
said
Jake Castlegar
said
jimmathy
said
Me
said
7% 7% 7% do I have to write it all across the page. That's all that is paid to workers, 7%. In the last few days I have heard this figure repeated on TV by those who know. How can a 7% output cause a company to go bankrupt. What was done with the other 93%-- jets and bigwig salaries maybe, or just mismanagement.
Solution for the Auto,Forest and Mining industries
said
Shorting only destroys companies and lines the pockets of Liberal insiders and friends on Bay Street.
BANISH SHORTING AND NAKED SHORTING NOW MR. MINISTER.
THAT WOULD ALSO HELP THE AUTO INDUSTRY AS WELL.
Paul
said
As far as you greedy SOB union mobsters and execs, shame on you all. Shame.
Can you imagine what $4B properly invested into healthcare, infrastructure, and other areas more canadians are involved with could have done for Canada?
For heaven's sake do something positive with this money.
Earn it. Or all of you in this industry will be shunned by your fellow Canadians.. if you're not already.
Greg
said
VLH
said
And this government and the leaders of all parties are a joke. None of them care about the country and the will of the people.
AB
said
What a waste of money!!!
My $133.00 .....
L.A.
said
iggy and the stooges
said
tired of hand outs
said
JP in BC- driving a NISSAN
said
Bail out an automaker-
They make Junk- no one buys the product- if you are giving money to the Big Three then equal amounts should go to th eother car makers- Honda Nissan.
Auto Workers need to get a life-
let them join the Militray and WROK for a living.
Another SAD DAY for taxpayers
M M B Ont
said
For those who complain their is no requisition for restructuring read this from CTV news: "Harper told reporters the aid package "is not a blank cheque" and that he wants to see the car companies and their unions work together to restructure their operations.
"All stakeholders are going have to be part of the solution," Harper said.
It seems Canada is a country of gimme, gimme, gimme. It never stops. Everyone wants something and want it now regardless. We should learn to do without a few toys and be thankful for what we have and not get too greedy.
Just remember folks, Harper said the budget will be a deficit budget so don't everyone get on the bandwagon and blame him... don't forget to include the greedy and power hungry Opposition parties as well because they are forcing this issue and in the end they will probably vote down the budget because the deficit won't be high enough for them. Sheeshhhh
JoyceI
said
This would be the bottom line, everyone in the Auto Sector need to adjust to lower wages, after all it is all of the Taxpayers which foot the Bill, not just the CAW member union workers.
We have to tighten our belt, they can do the same.
We do not get Spa packages especially if one is a Sr. there is none in our package so why should the workers have theirs, beside even when working,we never had a Spa luxury in our wage package.
Buzz Hargrove needs to be more aware that the ordinary Canadian works hard for what they earn and do not get all the frivolities which those who work at the car plants receive.
Concessions have to be made by everyone.
Geof
said
J. Michael McCutcheon - Toronto, ON
said
Stephen Harper and Dalton McGuinty announced a $4 Billion bail out for GM and Chrysler in the form of loans back by the Canadian taxpayer. Harper stated that “all stakeholders are going have to be part of the solution”. He repeated and emphasized “all stakeholders”.
Literally, within minutes, former CAW union chief, Buzz Hargrove, was on television saying that workers had already given up enough. Current CAW, head honcho, Ken Lewenza followed with the same sentiments, basing part of his argument on ‘productivity' levels.
It looks as though the door has been effectively 'closed' on the CAW wishing to play as 'active participants' in the re-launching of the battered, North American, automotive industry.
Somehow, Buzz and Ken did not hear Stephen emphasize “all stakeholders”. "All", means "all".
The 'good side' is that taxpayers may be off the hook for the $4 Billion because Hargrove and Lewenza fail to understand that the situation is far beyond ‘negotiations’.
You are either 'in' or you are 'out'.
For every CAW worker, the situation is plain, straight and simple.
No ‘Play’.
No ‘Pay’.
No “Job’.
No ‘Union”.
Period.
The ‘100-year party’, that started with your great-granddaddies, is over.
Go home.
The 'bad side' is that you may lose it because your union bosses wouldn’t ‘play’.
Doug In Calgary
said
With all of the uncertanties facing us (the consumer)a multibillion dollar bailout is unlikely to stimulate the populace into making a decision to purchase a new vehicle.
The doom and gloom of total economic collapse of the economy if the Big Three go under needs to be re-thought. Probably an extreme downsizing to fit current new vehicle demand and then a slow rebuilding over time based on consumer demand increases and the implemention of future fuel trends.
An overnight solution doesn't exist. This is a long term issue and the government, the consumers, the manufacturers and the unions have to get their head around it. Blaming each other for the problems is basically immature playground antics.
Linda in Vancouver
said
This is a move by Harper to keep the socialists from burning this parliament so soon after the last election.
DUH!! HELLO. $4 billion as a down payment for the auto industry,21 more seats in parliament for Ontario,no talk of Senate Reform.GIve me a break.Once again it is all about appeasing central Canada with no demands for them to reciprocate in any way at all.Not now.Not ever.
All that on the heels of a fraudulent coalition by parties with nothing in common,and who hid their agenda during the last election.
For decades I fought long and hard to keep Quebec in Canada.I will be unlikely to do so again.This mess is not their fault,but if it's the only way the west is ever going to get a break,I say let them go.If they don't take Ontario with them,at least it will be easier for the west to get out too.
REPAIR OR ABOLISH THE SENATE !!! There is no democracy in Canada,now,and there cannot be one until that shameful institution is a thing of the past.
Maybe,after that,ALL regions of Canada can have some say in how tax dollars are flushed down the toilet.
And finally,thank you Liberal premier Gordon Campbell for having the guts to call the coalition exactly what it was.A left wing power grab.
mike Niagara Falls
said
If you have any doubts GM just opened their new PLANT in China I guess our tax dollars will create job in China ...bye bye Oshawa and
St Catharines...Thank you Mr McGuinty for waisting my TAX Dollars.
Lee
said
Prof. Pye Chartt
said
---------------------
"I've posted a comment many months ago suggesting that our country and world needs to work from a new economic system - a hybrid socialistic-capaitalist system. Guess what? Members of the UK gov't last night were hinting that capitalisim as we know it is finished and a new system of capitalist-socialisim is now being born from the "birth pangs" - called simply "The New Capitalism".
----------------------
Well, Reece, as one who thought you were all wet back then...I still think you've got the bull by the butt.
Throughout the Western world, for several decades, free-market capitalism has been strongly coupled with "socialism" in the form of progressive government taxation and government social welfare programs. It's time to get hip to the world you've already been living in.
The infusion of public money into the private sector that you're now witnessing is a direct result of weak, fearful, and uninformed politicians and citizens being compelled to disrupt the natural workings of capitalism. We, as a foolish, gutless society, won't allow ourselves to suffer the consequences of greed and stupidity.
Capitalism has ALWAYS been bridled by government rules and regulations. American politicians (Democrats & Republicans) messed with those controls, and greedy mortgage bankers and international investors lit the stage on fire.
You (and, apparently, a couple British politicians) still don't get what got us here and what's sending us into an economic tailspin. "Socialism" (corporate welfare) will only buy us out of this mess at a huge price – massive, prolonged, crippling debt. The answer simply lies in fixing what was broken; not inventing some new kooky system with a twist of semantics.
The “system” isn’t changing. You’re just watching politicians give away our hard-earned money…like they always do…except, this time, it’s in bigger truckloads.
Elizabeth S. Hutton
said
Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said
This will not solve any problems; will not result in repayment; and merely shifts the inevitable adjustments a tad further down the road, prologonging the recessionary impact.
Foolishness all around.
Though, for those Harper-haters out there...this is a multi-party heap of rubbish. I doubt the conservatives would have been so free with public money against taxpayer will, had they a majority.
Mark
said
"cars that nobody wants"
Some facts now:
-GM outsold Toyota by 1.2 million vehicles in the US
-Ford outsold Honda by 850000 vehicles and Nisan by 1.2 million
Gm makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion which were both rated higher than the Camry by JD powers.
There are many more facts like this and could go on and on. Maybe all you big 3 haters should do the research and maybe all those losers who think that the foreign auto makers make better products and did the research and bought domestically the big 3 would be in better shape. Unfortunately far 2 much stuff is made overseas, but when you have the opportunity to support the local economy we should. I do not work for any auto company or supplier of an auto company, but IU will continue to by a car from the big 3, they are making quality cars at better prices from the foreign automakers and hopefully I am keeping my neighbors employed.
Just a question how much did the Ontario government give Toyota to build in Woodstock? I am sure they gave them some incentive's.
Keep whipping, the mule's almost dead
said
Without a bailout,thousands if not millions would be jobless. That would probably include YOU.Try looking at the big picture people. It's a LOAN not a grant.It will be paid back, your taxes won't go up.
Mark M
said
I then hopped into my 1992 Acura Vigor (which I am selling BTW, although now maybe not) which has been sitting outside since the fall and covered in a foot of snow and guess what??? It started right up and brought me to work.
THAT is the problem with NA vehicles...and I didn't even get into the problems my truck has already had! I will NEVER, and I mean EVER own a "big 3" vehicle again!!!
don hames
said
Keith
said
Rhonda Pick Enderby BC
said
Aldy
said
no job, no wage, no demand
said
JS
said
How about the 62% that didn't vote for Harper? Harper is only doing what the Liberals, NDP, and the Bloc wanted. They threatened to defeat the government so they can do the same thing. How much do you think they would have given the car companies? I think it would have been much more than $4 billion. Would YOU b*tch and complain then?
Andrew Chobaniuk
said
I'm for SEPERATION, but not for Quebec, for Western Canada!
Iggy for PM
said
Alem Asfaw
said
Jake
said
Don't you know what this means people.....next summer we will be getting 3 for 1 Dodge Durangos and Calibers (man did that car fall out of the ugly tree). Seriously though, where are they going to put all of these cars very few people want?
Shan
said
"With the Canadian dollar at par, CAW hourly wage and benefit costs of $75 to $80 an hour are $5 to $10 higher than the $70 (U.S.) to $80 figures in the United States," Mr. Stanford said.
The CAW better get with the program and understand that their $150,000 per year of income and benefits is way out of wack with the rest of Canadians and we less fortunate folks don't want our hard-earned tax dollars going to their pockets. No way!
Calgary Voter
said
Maybe they could do what the rest of us have to do when we get in a financial pinch. Cut back our spending and suck it up. Any other small business would be shut down by now and a handout from the government would be not even considered. As they would tell you if you asked " the government does not bail out busnesses that fail" I know this because I experienced it myself when my business failed.
If GM sold more cars than Toyota,
said
Sickening TO Watch
said
When the defecit comes, don't blame Harper.....it was this "coalition" that forced his hand. In the end it will be the wrong move.
I will never in my life vote for any party that was part of that coalition ...LEGAL OR NOT. Liberals and NDP have both sold out their values on hate and revenge. At least the Bloc has it's agenda and is true to it.
This moey will only patch this , and it will fail in time.
$133.00 . . . There goes my GST two cents.
said
Workers, don't take any cut in wages.
said
Or the companies will die.
Either way, I win.
ET
said
Frustrated
said
Bottom line…NOBODY is blameless in this mess. The corporations must cut management & executive staff and their salaries by at least 40 - 50% or more. THEN, come back to the CAW, and negotiate. I'm sure they'd be more receptive then.
Too many tress to see the forest
said
No matter how you slice it unionized workers making even 25 dollars an hour is out rageous!
Nurses with degrees are making that amount... oh yeah did i mention they are unionized as well, not to mention they are in charge of giving our family members life saving medications not just turning bolts.
As for those who say it is hard to get a job in one of the plants..... get life, we all know those who know get, hence why there is a question on the application asking if you have family or friends working with the company.... okay i spent my monies worth,
Leigh,Alberta
said
Overpaid workers for skill required to assemble cars.
Will the CAW give up Spa days?
Waste of taxpayers money.
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
Keith
said
dmac
said
Mr. Harper should have had a government strong enough to do what the German and Danish governments are doing, holding firm against the money mill, instead we are going to be stuck with more debt. We must open our eyes to the realization that much the capital which supports this money is diminishing in value.
mikado
said
Say no to unions
said
BR Cassidy Kanata
said
I hope you don't drive a Ford Focus because it was probably made in Mexico. And yes we need Toyotas because as an example the Corolla is one of the few excellent cars one could consider "Green" for fuel efficiency at resonable average person purchasability, not to mention reliability. Canadians are making import cars here and that is a good thing. Just look at the public response to these bail outs. Most are not in support of them. These companies must compete or fail. That is the world reality today. We should view good companies as leaders for the rest to follow and emulate. We should not put them down for doing their best. So no shame here just accolades for good companies.
common cents
said
Albert M from Burlington
said
Layton B in NB
said
bruce in renfrew
said
what about honda???
di d they come cap in hand? di they come begging for money?
did they come sayng...oh please help us?
no! They are non-unionized...they practice good sound management practices...they anticipate market conditions..and they will now be watching their chief competitors get a nice little bail out from the government as they just open another plant in the Woodstock region...nie evn playing ground...NOT!!
Angus
said
Conservative Mike
said
Better not support the Coalition then...
Earl
said
I don't have a problem with the bailout with the auto industry, what I do have a problem with is GM Canada's committment of 67 Million dollars to the 2010 Olympics, this should now be recinded if they get government ( The People of Canada's ) help.
It also looks like the Money is going to Vehicles which the Vanoc is using as prices for the BC lottery Corporation.
Alysha Ont
said
I would hope that our PM and the Liberal Premier would not give this money freely to help save the BIG 2 without expecting and demanding full accountability of how the money was used. If anyone is concerned about this fact, don't hesitate to write Harper and the Premier of Ontario to re inforce this point.
Pathetic
said
This is pathetic. Big - 3, how about making good, reliable, fuel effeciant, eco-friendly cars for a change. Or stop using your private jets to fly to meetings where you're begging for money.
No one bail-out package was offered to my father when his business failed.
Pathetic
wade
said
VagnF
said