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Ontario mayors, auto dealers call for federal help
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Fri. Nov. 21 2008 7:49 PM ET
A group of Ontario mayors as well as the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association added their names to a growing list of those pressuring Ottawa to move quickly to help the auto industry or risk a nationwide crisis.
Twenty-two mayors, including those from Oshawa and Windsor, where the auto sector is a major employer, met Friday to discuss the auto crisis and pledged to fight to save the industry.
The mayors made it clear they thought the collapse of the auto industry would devastate local economies.
"We're talking about the impact on our communities, the impact on the front lines -- the mom and pop that run the coffee shop, the doughnut shop, the mother and father that own the restaurant that services that local community," Windsor Mayor Eddie Francis told The Canadian Press.
"That results in really significant, significant challenges for communities, regardless of your size and regardless of your location."
Analysts have said every auto job supports seven spinoff jobs.
Rather than wait for the U.S. to make a decision on whether or not to bailout the auto industry, the mayors called for an immediate "made in Canada solution" to the crisis.
Liberal leadership hopeful Bob Rae also urged the Conservatives to take action.
In a Friday speech Rae said Ottawa should pressure Washington and the industry in return must promise to become competitive and sustainable.
Additionally, the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association is asking for assistance for the beleangured industry.
CADA President and CEO Richard Gauthier, representing the country's 3,500 car dealers, spoke to reporters on Parliament Hill Friday and said an aggressive federal policy is desperately needed.
"The Canadian public and policymakers need to understand that the auto industry is really the engine of the entire country's economy and not just a single province," Gauthier said.
"As the largest contributor to Canada's manufacturing Gross Domestic Product and responsible for one in seven jobs nationwide, the auto industry is crucial for our economic structure."
He said the current automotive manufacturing downturn will have a ripple effect in every community across Canada.
"The cold reality facing decision makers today is that if Canadian-based manufacturers are not provided a bridge across the current economic crisis, then Canada's 3,500 small business dealers, located in every community in the country, will bear the brunt of the downturn," he said.
"...As economic cornerstones of almost every community in Canada, the pain of auto dealers will be felt on main streets and other small businesses from coast to coast."
CADA wants Ottawa to consider measures to increase liquidity in the automotive sector.
In the U.S., the Detroit Three -- Ford, Chrysler and General Motors -- are currently seeking $25 billion from Congress to prevent their collapse.
On Thursday, Industry Minister Tony Clement and Ontario Economic Development Minister Michael Bryant were in Washington meeting with top-level officials to discuss the best deal with the crisis.
Francis said the mayors are looking towards the federal and provincial levels of government to continue to be active in the auto bailout discussions south of the border.
"We want to see a co-ordinated effort where our federal and provincial government are in the game... so as to avoid a one-sided deal which could mean a loss of Canadian jobs and investment," Francis told CTV's Canada AM Friday.
In Stratford, Ont., a community of 32,000, there are as many as 4,000 jobs that are directly and indirectly related to the auto industry.
Stratford Mayor Dan Mathieson says the impact from a loss of auto jobs would have a "dismal impact" on the community.
In the past, Mathieson said the government has just handed over money to the auto industry without forcing companies to make products in demand.
"Now's the opportunity for the federal and provincial government to set the agenda for the auto workers, to work with the car companies to lay out how we're going to go forward," he told CTV's Canada AM on Friday.
"This opportunity, if missed, the social impact costs of people being unemployed in significant numbers are going to spiral the economy of Ontario further down."
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.



Comments are now closed for this story
Ted
said
A panel discussion of TV agreed that the cost to assemble a vehicle was about 7% of the total cost. If the labour cost went to zero, a $50,000 truck would still cost $46,500. Advertising costs are in the 3% range from what I understand. The real problems go far beyond the workers.
Parts supplier
said
Don't say it is because CEO's flew private jets seperately to Washington or get incredible bonuses. Magna has private jets and are they losing money???? That's because no union in that company.
Look at Stelco(union) and Dofasco(non union), one is losing money and other is making money.
Heather
said
IF the auto companies are given bailout money, I'd like to see their ownership temporarily taken over by people who will turn these companies around, will correct the errors made, will start production of WANTED vehicles such as 3, 4 and 6cyl diesels and hybrids, and will make a profit that will be kept by the government.
Once that government money given to the auto companies is made back up by the government, THEN they can turn ownership/management of these companies back over and hope the morons don't threaten our towns again.
carlos
said
The problem in the auto industry stems from alot poor management and poor planning. The labour costs are 7% all-in and there is not much the workers in these assembly plants can do to affect that. Even if labour costs were 0% they would still lose money.
All we ever see on these blogs is misinformation and union bashing propaganda from people who probably haven't even seen the inside of an assembly plant ...
POTP
said
Metro Man
said
grange
said
GM investing billion dollars in Brazil.
said
MuskyBuck
said
But that is the reality here.
Again folks I implore you, you must make your voice heard to your MP.
You can do as I and many others have done, email your MP, let them know that you will not stand for money bail outs and that these companies must die.
There will be new companies that take their place, new jobs, new innovations.
You must see, that the only ones that are making noise right now are the, dealers associations, the manufacturers associations, the associations for association associations...
Everyone who has a chance to get their greedy little paws into this bailout is making our government see their point of view.
It's up to you and I to see things right and straight.
lacluont
said
Doug BC
said
The "big 3" have costs so much higher than those at Honda or Toyota.I don't agree that means they are poorly run.GM has 10 people retired for every worker still working.Those costs alone are huge.Estimated to be $2000 per car in the USA.
And,even as someone who suppports unions most of the time,I see no way taxpayers can support companies who cannot find ways to be competetive.And I have the same numbers as quoted by "parts supplier".$73 per hour at GM vs. $47 per hour at Honda.And a lot of people making thes wages are not as highly skilled as some other people working as skilled tradespeople.Not even as "qualified" as a trained mechanic.
I don't know what the solution will be here.I am not anxious to see those people lose their jobs,or for the retirees to lose the pensions they earned.The impacts of that would be as disasterous as using tax dollars to help the industry.
And,of course,someone is going to have to go.North America already has an overcapacity in auto production.If we then factor in an American market with a very few consumers able to afford new cars,things are going to get worse.
Personally,I love my GM vehicles.I hope they don't go down.But I do think there is no "right" answer to this dilema.Both sides of this debate come with both benefits and unintended consequences.One as severe as the other.
Perhaps the US congress was finally right."Show us a business plan" so we can make the best decision possible.
Barry
said
elizabeth in Vancouver
said
The Big 3 need to wake up to reality. Not even americans buy big US gas guzzlers. Obama is planning on building several million hybrids in the US with vets returning from the war.
The Big 3 are from the dinosaur. Why should we continue to support their delusion.
Mark from Thunder Bay
said
And I seem to recall that a lot of jobs are lost from the forestry sector here in Northwestern Ontario, and when we asked for help, no one cared. So, explain to me why the rest of the country should care about the auto-sector?
Mr Chillz
said
Gail (Hamilton)
said
Steve the Pundit
said
Again, Detroit built these because we bought 'em! And because we bought so many of them, even the foreign brands got into the game with bigger and bigger trucks and cars (Toyota and Nissan both now built gas-guzzling pickups and SUV's).
With gas below 80 cents again, only thing preventing people from doing it again is lack of credit.
Perhaps the worst thing about this is that GM and Ford (Chrysler not so much) are building some really good innovative quality cars; too bad it might be too late.
Jack R.
said
rob
said
Sell something in demand..
People will buy it..
I own a volkswagen, and love it.. I would never own a North American piece of junk. I hope these companies die a quick death and new startups come up!
Tony P.
said
My grandmother could use another 50-100$ a month to substitute her pension, the homeless could use homes and our health care sector could use a bit more cash.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. These companies are always going to be looking for a handout and I am sorry for those that will lose their jobs, but let’s be serious, if the US is hesitant, we should be EXREMELY!
My vote for the next election is still up for grabs - an auto sector bailout will seal who I WONT vote for!
RVH
said
Not a single cent.
David Chan
said
AndyL
said
CRY BABY CRY
said
No one listens to what the public wants. We want a fuel efficient car that doesn't cost $40,000 and wont fall apart just after the warranty expires(we've all been there). Built it and i will buy it.
Bunny
said
Jim
said
Why don't you listen to your clients first? This quasi-monoply association of theirs here is anti-modern consumer and now they are shutting down dealers.
They would rather shut down operations than open on Saturdays and betray their "Association"!!
Gordon in Sarnia
said
It's dead,Jim.
Linda in Vancouver
said
But the mayors do have a lot to worry about.These companies can be huge sources of tax revenue for any town or municipality.
There is a lumber company I know of which has mills on Vancouver Island,and in Arizona.In BC,local taxes are over $6 million dollars per year.In Arizona,the same mill pays $750,000 per year.
While it is possible some union workers get a bit to greedy,I would rather pay workers than send the profits off to foreign shareholders.But all companies should be playing the same game,on a level playing field.Worker demands must be reasonable.But we should not let cheaper foreign wages be the trend for all workers in Canada.
But,if we rely on exports to make money,we have to compete.If we don't want lower wages for workers,we have to find other ways for companies to cut costs enough to keep them in business.But,just hear the howls of protest when companies get tax reductions.
It makes me wonder if we can ever be satisfied with anything government does.
Food for Thought
said
I can imagine the public outcry if the oil companies were the ones asking for money. We wouldn’t do it for big oil and the implications would be similar so why are we even considering doing it for the big 3?
Roger
said
Al
said
Justin
said
Fix you operation, and build some quality cars, perhaps then you'll survive.
CR
said
WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR
said
Scott in Halifax
said
Dan in Trenton
said
Nick
said
$30/hr to screw a bolt on a frame is what will kill a company. GM should go to the Union and say "20% pay cut, or you're all fired"
It'd save the auto industry.
Auto Workers need to realize they are partly to blame as their greed has priced themselves out of a job.
David
said
Before any money is spent on saving the auto indusrty we should have gaurantees in place from the Auto industry that X amount jobs are saved per evry million dollars invested if not we just throwing good money away.
You want more people to buy cars take the 25 billion they are asking for and pay off evryone mortages in Canada.
Belle River Woman
said
Chris from Oshawa
said
Screw em I say , look in the mirror for why you have no job left.
Walter (Wpg)
said
Let all 3 car manufacturers go down and someone will make them operate again with a profit and employees that will appreciate having a job.
No Money for the BIG? three
said
CB
said
Secondly, wouldn't you rather offer a bailout with your tax dollars as opposed to EI/Welfare Benefits which these workers will require when they are not working and can't find work? And it will not only affect the auto workers...it will have a ripple effect into many other companies as well. I hate to break it to you people, but it will all come from the same pot!
Simon Shaw
said
It saddens me to think that someone could say that a person with a grade 11 education is not deserving of a lifestyle as someone who has attained a higher level of education.
I should be paid more because I am smarter than you? Is this the world we really want to pass on?
What about the technical skills required to build a car. Take any nurse and drop her into an auto plant and they would need education to learn what to do.
These individuals in the auto sector have picked up a skillset and should be paid for it. Anyone can become a nurse. You have to go to school and pick up a skill set.
The men and women who build the vehicles that have built this nation desrve the pay they get.
What we need to do is ban all parts and cars being made in countries that choose not to pay their workers a comparable minimum wage. This is what is undermining our industry.
How can we compete against Japanese and Chinese made parts?
The only way it could be possible to compete is to get rid of the unions and pay our good Canadian workers 10 cents an hour with no benefits.
Does this sound like the Canada you want to live in?
BC Pensioner
said
On wages - I retired 5 years ago from the Aircraft industry where I was a Transport Canada Licensed Maintenance Engineer and earned $25/ hour - + no benifits. So a grade 10 employee earns $70+/hr. Oh, it's only 7% of the vehicle cost. !
I own a 2004 Volkswagen Jetta Diesel and it gets between 55-60 mpg, seats 5, 6 airbags, never been in for repairs, only for oil service, the 'big three' have nothing to offer me for a vehicle, until they do I will still buy from other manufacturers.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Bob AB
said
1. to CADA who sayto consumers "just go out and buy a car" I guess they don't get the fact that consumers are TAPPED.
2. Why should the tax payers contribute to support the industry when I have NOT hears one word about wage consessions from within the industy (from corporate execs to the unioned employees).
3. When the Trudeau Liberals desimated the western economy with the National Energy Policy I did not hear any support from the auto eastern based auto sector.
I don't want to hear anymore whining I would like to hear what those in the industry are going to do to help themselves before I agree to any hand out
Rod in Alberta
said
Also Homes too!
Maybe that will get things moving...
Dexter
said
Never mind a bail-out; take that money and start a NEW car company, and employ all the best of the the employees from the bankrupt ones. Make, and sell the cars that people actually want...
Scott
said
Hybrid Shmybrid
said
And where do you think the batteries in the Hybrids will be buried once they're dead? In the ground where they will leak for hundreds of years.
It will require massive natural resources to re-charge the Hybrid and the increased care batteries will be leaking acid into our ground and water for years.
STOP LISTENING TO EMPTY HEADED CELEBRITIES!
They Hybrid is not the answer.
Allie
said
Other auto companies are doing fine, PArts companies will make parts for the other companies as GM, Ford, and all the others go out. Maybe the parts companies should have seen the market turn and started making envorimental parts years ago. Or a least not depend on just one company to buy there product. I know people who have worked for GM, they were uneducated and rich. What a combination. I know they felt they could never lose there job.(about 80000 grand a year depending) Goes to show you we should all continue our education.
Brin
said
Finally, for the love of god ... to all the baby boomers who are running the Big 3 and other major corporations into the ground would you just LET IT GO?!
Retire already because you're 70-year old business model is as antiquated as your demands for tax payer bail outs! The business world needs younger perspectives with a fresher, updated view on goods and services to take us into the next 100 years.
As another comment stated: let the companies die and something new, better and more relevant will replace it. The globe is in the process of re-inventing itself, get out of the way!
DP
said
Let the Big 3 declare bankruptcy so they can reorganize to become more efficient.
If automotive workers for the big 3 want to keep their jobs, let them suck it up and take a salary cut to save them. 25 bucks an hour is better than employment insurance.
Perfect time for an Auto Industry Revolution
said
Sean Calder
said
I believe that any money we spend as a nation would be better invested in that than continuing to prop up the industry that we have been for the past 10-15 years. Better to move those workers to other sectors experiencing shortages in their own workforce.
How many more billions of dollars are we going to spend to keep patching a sinking ship?
MuskyBuck
said
If we're speaking about Canada here, ....they're all unemployed already or soon to be.
The plants are closed.
They're already costing us and the Big 3 are trying to get us to pay them more to open back up for business.
I've never been one to fall for the 'the sky is falling' sentiment because things change.
There has alway been progress in humanity. Sometimes it's painful but none the less important.
Never has the world ended, humanity cease to exist or all of us having to go live a park because of the changes fortunes of business.
Never.
Remember this basic factual principle of all things...nature abhores a vacuum.
GP
said
The only thing that is going on here is the privatization of profits off the backs of the taxpayers.
The Auto Industry's only answer is to get rid of employee benefits...that is so stupid. It has nothing to do with the reason they are failing. This is a complete red herring and completely misrepresentative of the real problem here...they make a product people do not want to buy. How does reducing peoples benefits solve this problem. It is a pure American approach…we are not American, our values are different, we believe in social values NOT profit before all else.
LET THEM FAIL...short term pain for long term gain.
JJ from Ontario
said
Cars are a luxury item that a lot of people can well do without instead of a vehicle in their driveway for each person living in the house.
Davey boy
said
Gerry McCowan
said
Mike
said
Richie
said
Stevie
said
Dave from Toronto
said
Stephen
said
Blame Ontario
said
I am originally from the west but, have lived in Ontario for several years and the insane mindset of this province is the reason our country is stuck economically in the manufacturing, industrial and natural resource sectors.
This is a population that believes in making $50/hour on an assembly line for three years, bankrupt the company, be unemployed for years while waiting for the government to make it all better. The worst part of it is they've raised the new generation like this too, most young people in Ontario refuse to do one single thing outside the box, refuse to do anything different from their parents and are sitting on their butts while the entire nations economy falls apart AGAIN, in large part because of this province.
If anyone so much as whispers the need for change or suggest it's time to do something different, the picket lines go up in a fury and highschool drop outs will line the streets demanding things stay exactly the same.
If Ontario doesn't drastically change it's ways, we'll be in this exact same spot again in five years just like they had us here five years ago and five years before that ...
MM
said
MM
Dr. James Bradford
said
All this "bravado" with chants of "let them fail" is coming from people who are ignorant about the seriousness of the economic woes facing the world.
If the Big 3 fail you have a good chance of losing your own job because the ripple effect will be like a Tsunami broadsiding our economy and unless you have no debt and a mountain of cash you will suffer.
I have little patience for the cavalier attitudes of those who never experienced the great depression and are saying let the the big 3 fail. It isn't that easy a situation. You cant blow and suck at the same time. You cant let them fail then demand social welfare. There needs to be wealth generators. Our Nintendo raised, tech gadget loving society has no clue what suffering is but they are about to find out of this situation isn't handled properly.
Rob
said
Sandra
said
I am in the miritimes and was apauled to see when Timmy's CEO come on TV and show his 30 million dollar yatch off while the workers are forced to get buy on 7 an hour and not even given a free timbit or cookie! And other industry CEO's and executive of insurance and oil companies and reporting record profits in the millions and billions!
You look at starbucks and think that the only one's be able to afford there products are their executives. This is why i don't see how any money is going to help. There was someone saying that the union should be taking paycuts, well what about that executives travelling in thier personal plan's? and not to mention earning millions in bonuses while there employees are lucky to get 10 cents an hour raise!
Sick of Whining CEOs
said
CEO's take a pay cut. Sell your jet, your yacht, your Hummer, your Jag and skip the bonus. That is what business owners do when they want to save their business from going under.
These people have no concept of what reality is.
GaryJ
said
PS in Ottawa
said
David Dunlop
said
PB Toronto
said
Garry in NS
said
Tyson AB
said
I'd rather pay heavily later, Im 21 years old and grew up being taught that capitalism is the only system that prevails in society.Now that Im watching it fail, we keep putting band-aids on our problems, rather then placing the blame on capitalism. We Need to go from short term to long term thinking.
"Capitalism is not sustainable by its very nature. It is predicated on infinitely expanding markets, faster consumption and bigger production in a finite planet." ("It's capitalism or a habitable planet - you can't have both." Robert Newman
We need to put our efforts toward humanity rather then worrying about who has the greatest GDP.
KMA
said
Everytime we in North America cause a catastrophe globally, whether it be humanitarian (wars in Afghanistan & Iraq) or economic (mortgage & market collapse thanks to USA, demise of big3) we're always blaming the Arabs. The Arabs have nothing to do with any of this; if you're looking to place blame, blame those Americans. And Harper. And Stockwell "Bring on the Rapture" Day.
Scott ... I blame people like you because I guarantee you supported all the horrid foreign policy decisions that lead to sky high oil & gas prices and now you're whining about OPEC.
Roger T
said
To start perhaps the auto sector should cut the employee numbers to balance the payroll and cut wages and stop the union. They haven't taken any serious actions WITHIN before asking while the unions are demanding bailouts.
Regardless, no one wants to buy an over priced car or over sized car now a days. The gas prices is a temporary fix so don't be fooled and run out to buy a big car.
brian johnson
said
We also manufacture a product (lumber) that nobody wants.
Brian
Joel in Kamloops
said
Sometimes enough is enough, and that time has come.
There are lots of fields that need labour. It might mean retraining, but there are many worse things in life than having to start a new job.
Let all of them fail.
And who is to say that new auto companies won't spring up? These big companies are so huge that they are no longer nimble and can't or won't respond to consumer demands.
NO HANDOUTS FOR THE AUTO SECTOR.
Young jeezy
said
Jack W
said
Allan
said
David
said
The Deception...
said
It wont be short term pain... it will be long term pain for most people as in twenty years before we see things back to any semblance of normality of we let them fail.
They need help but they also need to be held to a set of guidelines for success and payback of the funds.
Small business owner
said
Cambob
said
It's bad enough that we bail out failing airlines, ridiculous tv, and a postal system that is 'virtually' on it's death knell. ENOUGH!
If these multi billion dollar companies beg for welfare, then something is horribly wrong. And if my government gives in to their blackmail laced demands, then we are all fools.
duff sigurdson
said
Don't worry about plant closures, Toyota, Honda et al will buy up the remains and produce well built, good
looking cars, something the big 3 havn't done in years.
We should not be spending one more dime on these companies.
Ester from Oshawa
said
By the way, I heard Honda today is laying off people as well. They are being subsidized by their government. Why people are so anti-Canadian and American and pro Asian is beyond me.
We've been loyal GM custormers for years and in some cases have put on 360 ks with minimal problems.
We know someone who loved their GM vehicle until they had a repair bill after 3 years. All of a sudden they were driving a piece of junk. Believe it or not people!! This guy bought a pile of junk Toyota, and he questioned himself whether he took good enough care of it. Can you believe that!
Toyota had more recalls last year than any other manufacturer but no-one ever heard about that. We should be standing up for our industry instead of trying to sabotage it.
Sure they have their problems, there are too many perks in the GM industry amongst labourers, but in order to compete effectively everyone's wages will be low enough just to get by or not at all. Is that what everyone is after. Third world standard of living.
Lately that's what it seems like to me.
Bonnie
said
PLEASE,give me a break
the average school teacher makes 60 dollars per hour!!! not 27.
Cambob
said
CAW should demand job security, higher wages, extended vacation periods, unlimited health benefits, 4 hour workdays, paid daycare..etc.
MH from Ottawa
said
No mystery why Buzz got out of the union business before it all burned down around him...
WHAT THEY'RE WORTH
said
Tim
said
Shaking my head
said
In your defense of the union members in the automotive sector you said that most people here haven't even seen inside of an assembly plant. Probably true - but I have. I have done contract work for 2 of the big 3 and have been in many of those 2 companies facilities. Let me share a few of my observations that are neither propaganda or misinformation - it's fact.
Approx. 3-4 years ago the CAW workers in the paint shop at one of the plants in Ontario were told they could no longer bring in their TV's or XBoxes to watch/play while on the line (yeah, they were permitted prior). How did this people respond to that directive? The ENTIRE department called in sick the next day resulting in the whole plant having to be shut down for the shift. No misinformation - I was there.
How about the fact that the CAW is not willing to give up any benefits or wages to assist in making THEIR plants and jobs relevant - hmmm....not even willing to give up that 1 Spa week each person gets every year (yes, a SPA week - paid)
How about the fact that in alot of departments they have a quota and once that is filled they can go home. For example, if your job is material handler and you unload the parts from the trucks you are only expected to do 5 trucks in a shift. If you get done in 3 hours, you go home and still get paid your full shift. I bet in the non-union plants, those guys would be moved to another area for the rest of their day- ya know, productive!!
Not enough room to continue, but easily could!!
Joe
said
Scott
said
I refer to OPEC as an organization that profitted horribly because the automakers made gas guzzling vehicles over the years. You can't tell me that the 2 organizations aren't in kohoots with each other. You need to wake up. If the auto makers always made fuel efficient cars, what would OPEC do. They are the ones who benefited the most over the years. How much profit did Exxon or Texaco make in a quarter this year -- Billions? That is ludicrous. I have always been in favour of what was right and what was wrong. It only makes sense that the ones that profitted the most for the car industries be the ones to bail them out. That's all, nothing more.
RayL
said
Doug Alberta
said
dw
said
Kim Vincent
said
Ryan in Burlington
said
At the same time, the same applies to the CAW and the other unions involved in this mess. The unions should step up and take a collective pay cut as employees. They make stupid money for what they do, especially since they don't have formal educations.
Each side has to make a sacrifice if they want a future! I don't know about the rest of Canadians, but I sure know that I don't want to be "donating" my tax dollars to these greedy pigs!
Ted
said
I've worked for a union before and I remember having a union rep ask me to slow down my efforts or face discipline...how does that make sense. Life will go on should we see a collapse. Throwing money at the problem rarely solves it. I say we need this change. As long as I've driven a car, I've seen the Big 3 as secondary to other, better build vehicles. This is contrary to my fathers opinion to buy American/Canadian...sorry. You had this coming. The younger generation will not tolerate this fat cat mentality of a redundent industry.
T in Calgary
said
What is the difference between Ford Canada and Toyota Canada? GM Canada and Honda Canada? etc, etc.
Aren't ALL major car companies in Canada foreign to Canada?
All of these companies employ Canadians in their plants, offices, etc. All of them have their headquarters outside of Canada and all of them have shareholders across the world that 'own' the company. There seems to be NO such thing as a 'domestic' car in Canada. What am I missing?
On the topic of bailouts I'm firmly against them as well. Capitalism doesn't work if there's no penalty for failure and inevitably bailouts hurt the small companies that don't have a large enough voice to lobby the government for special treatment. If a local bakery is in trouble can they get a bailout? What about a restaurant with 3 stores all in one city? What about a hair salon? We can't bail everyone out so to be fair we shouldn't bail anyone out. It's harsh but I believe it'll lead to a better situation in the future with leaner, more competitive businesses in Canada.
LJ
said
Doug
said
Amy in Landmark, MB
said
DRIVING A DODGE
said
The Big 3 may need to die and the cities that are affected are going to need to restructure thier economies.
I have a Dodge Caravan sitting in my driveway. That`s about as much as one person can offer.
These are hard times and to bail out these companies will be a bad precedant.
Jeff
said
What are unions thinking? I just drove by a parts manufacturer here in Cambridge and CAW is outside striking? The big 3 are broke because of them but yet they have the guts to strike in these times. What are they looking for now?
Anybody who strikes in Times like this should lose there jobs, i'm sure there are hard working people out there that would take their jobs for half of what they are making now and they would probably work a lot harder.
Toyota and Honda are the smart ones...keep unions out.
Jerry R
said
Rob
said
How many dollars have the management, the employees the dealers and the unions pledged to bailout the auto industry themselves?? If they believe the in the industry let's see them step up to the plate first...No one? Anybody?
Don't be giving me the sob story about all of the excess jobs lost,the industry will return naturally when demand returns, meanwhile I will NOT support the fat cat unions period they do not seem to have any financial difficulties now do they?
Shan
said
Thomas
said
Rick in AB
said
Well I have a few key words for you guys and they are all too colored for print! What a huge set that industry has.
I have no sympathy for you and demand that my political representatives tell you to stand on your own two feet like everyone else that goes into business in this country.
If you can't weather tough economic times then you don't deserve to be in busines.
My parents owned a smal business for 30 years and weather boom and bust in our small town and kept afloat by only spending what they can afford. I walk into dealerships all over the country and see owners with everything from exotic hunting trophies from Africa, to personal aircraft, yaughts moored on the coast for their personal use, high end luxury vehicles etc.
Liquidate your vast toys and holdings and keep your business running. I already paid too much for my vehicle and I refuse to give you my tax dollar as well while my city infastructure crumbles around me and services are cut just so you can maintain your extravagant standard of living.
James
said
A.H from T.O.
said
They will need to eliminate the Union contracts, many layers of management,
collapse pensions & benefits for retired personnel & reduce wages.
Gm has currently 60 products of which 45 are losing money and bleeding the company to death. They need to cut their losses and rebuild with the 15 to 20 top sellers and lose the rest of the dogs.
If it worked for the Airline Industry, it can work for them. ( Bankruptcy)
The Auto Industry wont disappear as some might say , on the contrary they will come out of it leaner and stronger than they have ever been in the last 50 years.
The board of directors of these companies should be ashamed at the performance of their 3 BIG CEO's in front of Congress & Senators, it was a blatant disgrace, and affront to the hard working Taxpayers of ALL countries.
All they could say over & over again is "CASH-BURN" ratio is too high. Well then start cutting hard and fast, start at the TOP & work your way down, lead by example, get your heads out of the sands of the 10 - 20 Million Dollar Salaries you're paid & get back to work.
You need a Loan then go to the bank like we all do!! No Credit or Bad Credit ? Reorg or Sell or Merg.
Rob
said
UNPLUGGED, CANADA
said
Rob
said
GM Driver
said
The big 3 have been making hugh profits however they did not foresee the issues that took us all this summer .
The problem is they put their eggs in one small basket large SUV's , the management of the big 3 are more too blame here than the workers in the plants
For all of you who think thoses jobs are easy , try it some time . I know I would go nuts doing the same small task over and over ...
When you have CEO's making hugh huge salaries and bonues I see no reason why the line workers cannot make 30 - 60 an hour
We are partly to blaim for this as we Canadians have purchased record numbers of SUV, and food for though, if the big 3 and the part suppliers go .... all you out there with newer vehicles better hope nothing goes wrong with your $35,000 suv no GM/Ford means no warrenty !
Think about all the Canadians who have purchased new vehicles in the last 3 years what happens to them if they no longer have a warrenty
AndyL
said
The answer is everything. People like Amadinanjad in Iran were openly trying to drive oil prices up to increase their revenues. When the barrel of oil was at 147$ they did NOTHING to try and reign in prices and that is when people stopped been able to afford their payments and stopped spending. If OPEC would have a being a good world citizen they could have helped ease this economic crisis, instead of spending it on lavish palaces and terrorism. Now that the barrel of oil is plummeting, these ecomomic terrorist are reducing output to try and bring the prices back up.
In short if these OPEC members gave money to the car companies which are a big part of their revenues instead of giving it to Arab extremist, they would actually help themselves and the world. But its unlikely that these morons who do not even treat their people well will actually do the right thing.
The fundamental question and answer
said
...Simple for one reason only - Because they employ so many people and buy so much material manufactured in parts and services companies who employ even more millions of people that if the big 3 go under we won' have an economy and your business or job will go under as well due to the ripple effect!
Is it fair? Absolutely not! But do you like to eat everyday is the more relevant question or would you rather see them go under? Your choice.
Bob
said
That being said, going into chapter 11 is the best thing that could happen to them. A cash bailout is just a bandaid but without fundamental restructuring it will be business as usual which isn't working so hot thus far.
The unions have seriously shot themselves in the foot here. Once again it goes to what I've veen saying for YEARS - unions nowadays have outlived their usefulness and now exist purely to support the unions. Union bosses are only interested in their own relevance so they stir the pot every few years, convincing the masses they're being so horribly mistreated they need to strike when nothing could be further from the truth. Well now they're reaping the rewards from decades of greed and hubris. CAW should fold like a pup tent - the workers would be far better off for it.
Finally... the "big 3" haven't made a vehicle worth buying in YEARS. Only in the last year or so have their quality ratings been slowly climbing back up but the damage has already been done. Their reputation for selling crappy vehicles that break down all the time is solidified in the minds of consumers. Ever wonder why Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc are having no problem?
T.J. Williams Edmonton
said
Excessive labor, pensions, health care costs, and a bloated dealer network will not allow these businesses to continue much longer, bailout or no bailout.
An orderly bankruptcy of these companies would allow much needed restructuring to occur quickly in this industry. Companies like Toyota, Honda and Daimler would likely purchase some of the Big Three's capacity and allow the profitable parts of the business to continue. Capitalism is all about "creative destruction." That is what is needed here.
Sid Matsalla
said
Get rid of all of the multi million dollar expenditures - CEO bonus', corporate jets, lavish hotel rooms, expensive business meetings, re visit the marketing plan - do you need to spend millions on air time or paper.
I think they can help themselves first before asking for a bailout.
spaz
said
After watching what goes on in parlament each session and the bickering and infighting.......would you trust any of them to organize anything bigger than a 2 car funeral ???????
Jim in Edmonton
said
Rob in Winnipeg
said
Don't give the 25 Billion to GM, Chrysler and Ford. Instead, give it to Honda and Toyota to build more plants here.
Allan
said
AndyL
said
ME
said
I work in the industry.......they'll survive
said
Dealerships will do fine they have garages to fix cars and do not require new product to survive. It's like funding a dinosaur. These companies could have competed by getting their hybrids out there but they have stalled and played. the conservatives cut subsidies to the poor, they better not pass them on to the rich.!!!!! we need new industry.
Should have make the changes 20 years ago!!!!
said
American cars are simply outdated, poor quality and unrealable.
Why sink money into such a mess
blc ontario
said
NAFTA what a concept to include a country with a totally different class of living and wages. What did our fair governments think would happen to our economies in Canada and the USA eventually? Which I understand was predicted but waived off by the politicians.
I come from a small town where the Nestle plant closed (after numerous decades) and moved to Mexico why because it is soooooo much cheaper to produce the same thing there. Hershey in Smiths Falls the same thing.
A recent article in the Ottawa Sun noted that while it costs $300 per day wages here in Canada to make Hershey products they can do the same thing in Mexico for $30 per day wages.
We cannot survive on such an unlevel playing field.
The big 3 need to restructure and the employees and management are going to have to bite the bullet if they wish to continue to have jobs simple as that. Unfortunately one would think with the big salaries all these people would have money in the Bank. Let's not kid ourselves they have mortgages, car loans etc etc. They live beyond their means too, so the fallout if they all lose their jobs will be felt far and wide across Canada and the US.
The government needs to revisit trade agreements too. How can we possibly compete with China and expect to maintain our standard of living. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.
Betty
said
Let them hang!
Gary
said
Sylvester, Toronto
said
1)Reduce the salaries and perks (bonuses and separation benefits)of executives to what eg., Toyota pay their executives in Japan.
2)Do the same for the average worker in these companies.
3)Be competitive. Reduce the MSRP to what imports cost.
4)Any money given to be recovered as shares in the companies. No freebies.
5)Replace the current management.
Lauri
said
Paul
said
For now, survival of the fittest should be the order of the day. Im certain we will all be driving with or without new cars coming from the plants. Oh, and dealers, you may just have to make deals with used cars only. Besides theres more money to made there for you anyhow.
John Spartan
said
Let them eat cake!
bubu
said
The gov't should subsidize the laid-off atuo workers to learn new skills, new way of building things, new trades.
D Sanchez
said
NO taxpayer funded bail-out under any circumstances for any privately run company.
If the governments give a hand-out to the so called big 3 auto makers then the line-up begins from other industries wanting hand-outs from the taxpayer and where will it end.
To the governments:
JUST SAY NO!
Josh
said
70 years old and still working
said
KMA
said
In addition to supply, the price of oil is set by market demand which is driven by speculators who were from every corner of the globe not to mention investors, demanding huge returns on their shares.
OPEC is made up of greedy businessmen, just like the greedy white guys in charge of the American mortgage and banking collapse and the greedy white guys running the Big 3 and the corrupt war criminal politicians on both sides of the border who are 99% greedy white guys.
None of them are Arabs and save your propaganda about 'economic terrorism' for the Synogogue, the evidence demonstrates that the White West is the biggest terrorist of every kind in the world.
"...good world citizen" ... what transparent, laughable rubbish. Like the USA & Israel?
Steve - Montreal
said
Dave in Newington
said
If I was in the market for a new vehicle in the next couple of month I am faced with two problems....
1. Do I purchase a new Big Three vehicle to support the local economy and take a more than slight chance that vehicle will end up as a "last off the Line" with no parts or warrenty due to the company going out of business
2. Buy an import with a far more stable company backing it and the reassurance I can get parts and service for the five or six years I own the car
Doesn't take much thought !
K
said
Gord
said
Their answer was predicable. Show us a plan for restructuring and sustainability and we'll show you the money.
Bottom line: Any bailout proposal will require U.S. taxpayers money be spend on U.S operations, excluding all foreign operations, Canada included. To allow otherwise would lead to U.S. taxpayer outrage. That's to be expected and so we should prepare ourselves.
I don't want my Canadian taxes paid into failed Canadian operations either without a reorganization, consolidation and a business plan for the future that also contains sustainability with the co operation of all stakeholders, CAW included.
Since the new CAW president has already said he won't play ball then all we can do is avoid being junkies for lost causes and say Adious Oshawa, Oakville, Windsor and hello to the sweet smell of successful Honda and Toyota operations in Alliston and Woodstock. If any of my tax money is to be spent, the CEO's of Toyota and Honda have proved to be good corporate citizens and deserve any help we can give them. Honda and Toyota's time in Canada has been well spent building good stainable businesses building good quality products people will buy while generating good spinoff jobs and businesses and tax revenue for their respective communities. They're to be applauded.
ps I drive a a Ford product a Volvo
Bob McGrath
said
gord
said
Allan
said
DON'T DO IT.
Rob
said
Fudge them!!
Another well run company will fill the void, the local dealerships can sell other brands of cars! Do not give them a cent of my tax money!
Tony
said
You wrote "We should be standing up for our industry instead of trying to sabotage it"
Canada has no automobile manufacturer of her own. Both GM, Ford and Chrysler are foreign owned companies.
Dave
said
Concerned
said
kate
said
Hugh Nugent
said
This will require the cliched term "out of the box thinking" as the old ways do not work.
Graham
said
North American car companies have seriously lost the plot and are a million miles from deserving of a bailout.
Politicians should know that we will hold those that approve this fully responsible and it won't be pretty.
Jason Shayne
said
With the price of oil down and fluctuations in the market, the oil patch is beggining to experience a downturn, projects cancelled, construction delayed, perhaps Oil and Gas should be begging for a handout as well.
Let them fail, the Japenese and Eurpoeans will fill the demand for the cars that will no longer be made by the big three, they will build the majority of the cars here anyway, so all these auto workers can just go work there.
Ki-Som Victoria BC
said
67
said
Michael (Ottawa)
said
They do indeed need help. Firstly they need to restructure and refocus. "IF" we are to believe Rick Wagoner the other day that is all in place and the process has already begun but they got caught with their pants down by the sudden reversal of fortunes associates with the sudden fuel prices.
He wants to push the Volt which is fine. Congress needs to get more concessions out of Wagoner. I don't trust him. Ford seem to be dong some good things and they too got caught. Anyone who has followed these turkeys know that they were greedy and have been caught due to their own greed. Having said that the price we all pay to see these jerks fail is just too steep without longer lead time for all of us to make changes to withstand a sudden loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs. It would be EXTREMELY difficult on all of us and we wouldn't likely recover for an entire generation. Thats too steep a price to pay in my view. Although they deserve to go down... they REALLY deserve it. I recall in the 1960's seeing my first Toyota Corolla in TMR, QC. Everybody laughed and scoffed. Those same people are driving Honda's, Camry's today. In the interim what has Detroit done? Oh a little here and there but they refused to embrace change preferring their old model of screwing the customer with built in planned obsolescence.
Don't get me started! I drive a Honda and am not interested in going back until they make a good vehicle which feels as good as a Honda and is built as good. When that day comes I'll be the first to return if its priced right also.
Simon Shaw
said
B. Kelley, Ontario
said
Just sink into the abyss
said
kevin
said
CANNOT LET THEM FAIL ATTITUDE
said
Terry
said
James
said
korie in bc
said
justin
said
BB in B.C.
said
JJR
said
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?
Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115
2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?
Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm
Car Guy
said
So that is 4,225 BILLION dollars. The Auto Makers are asking for $25 billion. So the question is 4,225 BILLION or $4,250 Billion. Who gives a crap about a measely $25 BIL???? At this point, it is miniscule in the big picture.
Let them fail and it will cost the economy a trillion for real. But then again - whats another TRIL? I for one would like to see the President riding around in a bullet proof Landrover - how embarassing would that be??
Toyota for Life
said
Doesn't matter how you look at it.
said
If we don't bail them out, the number of unemployment will go up, those U.I. cheques are still coming out from us - the hard working, honest, middle class taxpayer!
We don't really have a choice but to bail them out BUT MAKE IT THE LAST AND FINAL TIME!
Let the Government take over the WHOLE Auto Industry completely. Get rid all those useless CEO and union. Let start it all fresh!
Also stop or reduce the numbers of import cars. We are suppose to SUPPORT CANADA MADE PRODUCT - BUT IF THEY MADE A PRODUCT THAT WE WANT AND NEED! To do this, Government has to act more actively and supervise them!
Can't just loan the money out to them without PUTTING ANY SUBJECT TO. THAT WOULD BE "STUPID". JUST TREAT THEM LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN MAY HELP!
Name the new company "CANADIAN MOTOR". No more "General Motor". Make it DISAPPEAR once and for all!
If they can make a proudct almost as good as import car, there will be no need to import any cars overseas or have their plant in our land and steal our customer!
General Motor has to smarten up and smell the coffee!
Also we should upgrade the "Free Trade Agreement" - giving us more freedom to EXPORT PRODUCTS overseas and increase our surplus!
There are so much we can do and need to be done starting now. Car business is just the beginning of this AND HAS BE A build up problem for years!
Next will the housing industries trying to get in line to do their TURN of CRYING!
Harper is NOT doing much to CHANGE thing around! Wish we could have Mr. Obama as our Prime Minister instead!
Brian Dyer
said
Small business owner, you voted Conservative
said
Now pay for it.
PVT
said
james
said
We all want a healthier environment. Now is the time for the government to step up to the plate and begin nationwide construction of urban and inter-city high speed rail service to get cars off the road. To subsidize these workers by converting automotive plants into factories for electric commuter and inter-city trains makes more sense.
Bailing out the automotive industry is like trying to save a dinosaur. Think to the future and not reinvent the past.
Professor M.
said
Blame unions if you like, but the fact is that all North Americans have enjoyed a high standard of living for years based on technological advantage, high levels of education and plentiful resources. Unions simply ensured that workers shared in that bonanza. But we have lost that edge, and now all wages will move towards global averages, including non-union employees.You can thank unions for keeping wages as high as they have been for years.
But union wages are not the real cause of this auto production meltdown. The car companies are in trouble because Korean and Japanese automakers were able to utilize high technology and low labour costs to produce cheaper and ultimately better-made cars. The biggest problem for the last 10 years has been that Honda and Toyota made better cars at competitive prices, so they got more and more of the market. That's because the U.S. automakers refused to change their designs to make them more fuel efficient and reliable.
And now people want to blame the workers for the meltdown? Think it through.
Rosie
said
Cambob
said
100,000 unionized people negotiate a realistic contact or they are are fired.
20,000 management people take dramatic salary cuts or they are fired.
The extra 1,000,000 people who feed off of GM subsidiaries trim thier wages or they are fired.
Hmmm.. every step of the way, there are TWO options. No need to waste my taxes on this problem.
John31, Edmonton
said
Frankly, Ontario is going to end up being the next newfoundland. Their main industry is finished. Time to move on... Wasting tax dollars on a doomed industry isn't going to solve any problems.
James -Eh!
said
It has been reported that Honda is idling a factory in the Uk for a month, no doubt for "inventory adjustment:, and Toyota is laying off workers in Japan.
Are they running to the respective governments for bailouts, or are they getting on with the job of reducing production?
Secondly do the big 3 and auto dealers want a bailout so that they will survive with lots full of vehicles that noone will buy?
Larry NL
said
With the average house hold debt of $80,000, why would anyone want to go into more debt by purchasing a 30 to 50 thousand dollar vehicle.
Just doesn't make much economical sense.
But this is what the NDP and the Liberals are suggesting people do to keep the CAW worker working.
Put people into more debt when budgets are stretched to the limit as it is.
As far as the CADA is concerned, they are just glorified car dealers trying to sell the unwanted stock that they have in their inventory.
hindsight
said
Market Watch had already posted back in September that the industry was getting a $25 billion dollar loan...because of "poor executive leadership over the last two decades" as causing this problem that couldn't withstand an economic downturn.
Was this $25 billion figured into the Big 3's restructuring plan they brought to Washington with them? Why is it being reported that they are getting it now? Why isn't $25 billion not enough?
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-house-approves-25-billion/story.aspx?guid={903404D5-A88C-4E2E-B716-88431801304C}&dist=hppr
lakeside
said
Stevo
said
Canada the caring, Canada the good, Canada the shining light of compasion in a nasty world. Sure sounds like it in these messages. Where does the desire
to see others people's lives go down the crapper come from? I'm just glad I'm in a recession proof job with union backing because these bitter people would probably want me dead.
CD
said
Whats next, bailout the 7-11 store?
Don't give them a dime.It is obvious there are way too many car dealerships, they are on every corner. Besides they have something to look forward to, when all the weak dealerships are belly up the ones that are left will get more business. Survival of the fitest.