CTV News | Ontario mayors, auto dealers call for federal help

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Ontario mayors, auto dealers call for federal help

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CTV News: Robert Fife on car sales in Canada
CTV Toronto: Paul Bliss with what's at stake for the struggling auto industry
CTV Newsnet: Richard Gauthier, CADA president and CEO, on what needs to be done to ensure the prosperity of the auto industry
Canada AM: Eddie Francis, mayor of Windsor, Ont., discusses how the troubles effects his city
Canada AM: John Gray, mayor of Oshawa, Ont., and Dan Mathieson, mayor of Stratford, on the Big Three

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Nov. 21 2008 7:49 PM ET

A group of Ontario mayors as well as the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association added their names to a growing list of those pressuring Ottawa to move quickly to help the auto industry or risk a nationwide crisis.

Twenty-two mayors, including those from Oshawa and Windsor, where the auto sector is a major employer, met Friday to discuss the auto crisis and pledged to fight to save the industry.

The mayors made it clear they thought the collapse of the auto industry would devastate local economies.

"We're talking about the impact on our communities, the impact on the front lines -- the mom and pop that run the coffee shop, the doughnut shop, the mother and father that own the restaurant that services that local community," Windsor Mayor Eddie Francis told The Canadian Press.

"That results in really significant, significant challenges for communities, regardless of your size and regardless of your location."

Analysts have said every auto job supports seven spinoff jobs.

Rather than wait for the U.S. to make a decision on whether or not to bailout the auto industry, the mayors called for an immediate "made in Canada solution" to the crisis.

Liberal leadership hopeful Bob Rae also urged the Conservatives to take action.

In a Friday speech Rae said Ottawa should pressure Washington and the industry in return must promise to become competitive and sustainable.

Additionally, the Canadian Automobile Dealers Association is asking for assistance for the beleangured industry.

CADA President and CEO Richard Gauthier, representing the country's 3,500 car dealers, spoke to reporters on Parliament Hill Friday and said an aggressive federal policy is desperately needed.

"The Canadian public and policymakers need to understand that the auto industry is really the engine of the entire country's economy and not just a single province," Gauthier said.

"As the largest contributor to Canada's manufacturing Gross Domestic Product and responsible for one in seven jobs nationwide, the auto industry is crucial for our economic structure."

He said the current automotive manufacturing downturn will have a ripple effect in every community across Canada.

"The cold reality facing decision makers today is that if Canadian-based manufacturers are not provided a bridge across the current economic crisis, then Canada's 3,500 small business dealers, located in every community in the country, will bear the brunt of the downturn," he said.

"...As economic cornerstones of almost every community in Canada, the pain of auto dealers will be felt on main streets and other small businesses from coast to coast."

CADA wants Ottawa to consider measures to increase liquidity in the automotive sector.

In the U.S., the Detroit Three -- Ford, Chrysler and General Motors -- are currently seeking $25 billion from Congress to prevent their collapse.

On Thursday, Industry Minister Tony Clement and Ontario Economic Development Minister Michael Bryant were in Washington meeting with top-level officials to discuss the best deal with the crisis.

Francis said the mayors are looking towards the federal and provincial levels of government to continue to be active in the auto bailout discussions south of the border.

"We want to see a co-ordinated effort where our federal and provincial government are in the game... so as to avoid a one-sided deal which could mean a loss of Canadian jobs and investment," Francis told CTV's Canada AM Friday.

In Stratford, Ont., a community of 32,000, there are as many as 4,000 jobs that are directly and indirectly related to the auto industry.

Stratford Mayor Dan Mathieson says the impact from a loss of auto jobs would have a "dismal impact" on the community.

In the past, Mathieson said the government has just handed over money to the auto industry without forcing companies to make products in demand.

"Now's the opportunity for the federal and provincial government to set the agenda for the auto workers, to work with the car companies to lay out how we're going to go forward," he told CTV's Canada AM on Friday.

"This opportunity, if missed, the social impact costs of people being unemployed in significant numbers are going to spiral the economy of Ontario further down."

Comments are now closed for this story

Ted
said

Many cities, like Oshawa, rely on a single large industry. With a trickle down effect of at least 6-1, you could easily see the loss of 60,000 to 80,000 jobs east of Toronto. Every village and town within 50 miles of Oshawa would be hurt. At the meeting are 30 mayors from towns under similar circumstances.
A panel discussion of TV agreed that the cost to assemble a vehicle was about 7% of the total cost. If the labour cost went to zero, a $50,000 truck would still cost $46,500. Advertising costs are in the 3% range from what I understand. The real problems go far beyond the workers.


Parts supplier
said

What about the benfits and pensions cost it is cosing Detroit 3 to build a vehicle? A lot more than 7%!!! One chart I found shows total hourly wage around $70 plus / hour when include all the perks for a detroit 3 worker, Toyota in Cambridge same worker costs $47/ hour with there perks. Wonder why they are losing money??

Don't say it is because CEO's flew private jets seperately to Washington or get incredible bonuses. Magna has private jets and are they losing money???? That's because no union in that company.

Look at Stelco(union) and Dofasco(non union), one is losing money and other is making money.


Heather
said

I don't know why we'd give money to companies that are run so poorly as to get themselves into this situation by continuing to produce unwanted product despite all evidence to support the fact.

IF the auto companies are given bailout money, I'd like to see their ownership temporarily taken over by people who will turn these companies around, will correct the errors made, will start production of WANTED vehicles such as 3, 4 and 6cyl diesels and hybrids, and will make a profit that will be kept by the government.

Once that government money given to the auto companies is made back up by the government, THEN they can turn ownership/management of these companies back over and hope the morons don't threaten our towns again.


carlos
said

Re Magna has no union: BULL.They are union members now and yes they are losing money bigtime.
The problem in the auto industry stems from alot poor management and poor planning. The labour costs are 7% all-in and there is not much the workers in these assembly plants can do to affect that. Even if labour costs were 0% they would still lose money.
All we ever see on these blogs is misinformation and union bashing propaganda from people who probably haven't even seen the inside of an assembly plant ...

POTP
said

What do you expect, these four companies have been making plastic junk cars for years, and are paying themselves and their unions to much. I don't think we should give any of our hard tax money to them.


Metro Man
said

If we bail these companies out we might as well own them. Why we should help is beyond me. If we keep bailing out companies with products nobody wants we will be in real trouble. Only way to help is give incentives to make real improvements for new technologies. If we bailed failing industries in the past we would all still be riding around in buckboards still and riding on steam engine trains.


grange
said

I want to buy a car for 10 grand . period ! New off the lot 10 grand . Oh sorry , i can at Hyundi ...HUMMM, I just cant figure out why the big three cant sell vehicles ?


GM investing billion dollars in Brazil.
said

How much of that billion does the Canadian taxpayer supply?






MuskyBuck
said

I'm sad to see the fall out from poorly managed companies that make their home in our country.

But that is the reality here.

Again folks I implore you, you must make your voice heard to your MP.

You can do as I and many others have done, email your MP, let them know that you will not stand for money bail outs and that these companies must die.

There will be new companies that take their place, new jobs, new innovations.

You must see, that the only ones that are making noise right now are the, dealers associations, the manufacturers associations, the associations for association associations...

Everyone who has a chance to get their greedy little paws into this bailout is making our government see their point of view.

It's up to you and I to see things right and straight.




lacluont
said

Greedy executives with no money invested in R&D and continuing to ignore the pleas for fuel efficient vehicles.......these big wigs make me sick!


Doug BC
said

"Parts supplier" made some very valid points.Points which make this decision for government very tough.
The "big 3" have costs so much higher than those at Honda or Toyota.I don't agree that means they are poorly run.GM has 10 people retired for every worker still working.Those costs alone are huge.Estimated to be $2000 per car in the USA.
And,even as someone who suppports unions most of the time,I see no way taxpayers can support companies who cannot find ways to be competetive.And I have the same numbers as quoted by "parts supplier".$73 per hour at GM vs. $47 per hour at Honda.And a lot of people making thes wages are not as highly skilled as some other people working as skilled tradespeople.Not even as "qualified" as a trained mechanic.
I don't know what the solution will be here.I am not anxious to see those people lose their jobs,or for the retirees to lose the pensions they earned.The impacts of that would be as disasterous as using tax dollars to help the industry.
And,of course,someone is going to have to go.North America already has an overcapacity in auto production.If we then factor in an American market with a very few consumers able to afford new cars,things are going to get worse.
Personally,I love my GM vehicles.I hope they don't go down.But I do think there is no "right" answer to this dilema.Both sides of this debate come with both benefits and unintended consequences.One as severe as the other.
Perhaps the US congress was finally right."Show us a business plan" so we can make the best decision possible.


Barry
said

Union bashing bring it on. It is ridiculus to think a grade 11 educated man makes more than a school teacher or a nurse with a university degree. Bring down the wages where they belong after they go bankrupt


elizabeth in Vancouver
said

The feds didn't do anything to help support hybrid vehicles because Harper is indebted to the oil & gas industry. Zen cars were sold in europe, the U.S. and Asia and they wouldn't approve it until CBC ran a story on it. An electric car manufacturer here in BC finally sold his company to Pakiston.

The Big 3 need to wake up to reality. Not even americans buy big US gas guzzlers. Obama is planning on building several million hybrids in the US with vets returning from the war.

The Big 3 are from the dinosaur. Why should we continue to support their delusion.


Mark from Thunder Bay
said

So I understand that they are hurting, but if they lowered the prices of their vehicles, then people could afford them. I don't think we should give them any bailout because they have known that people want fuel efficient cars for quite a few years now, and they haven't accomodated what the people want.

And I seem to recall that a lot of jobs are lost from the forestry sector here in Northwestern Ontario, and when we asked for help, no one cared. So, explain to me why the rest of the country should care about the auto-sector?


Mr Chillz
said

Just another reason why I will never buy any of these cars from these automakers. Imported cars for life!!!!


Gail (Hamilton)
said

If corporate welfare doesn't stop, we'll all be on welfare. Bailouts and deficits mean higher taxes and people won't be able to make the big purchases like cars. We either believe in capitalism or we don't. It's as simple as that.


Steve the Pundit
said

Look at the driveways in your neighborhood: big pickups, SUV's, CUV's, minivans, etc. How many SMART cars do you see? How many hybrids?

Again, Detroit built these because we bought 'em! And because we bought so many of them, even the foreign brands got into the game with bigger and bigger trucks and cars (Toyota and Nissan both now built gas-guzzling pickups and SUV's).

With gas below 80 cents again, only thing preventing people from doing it again is lack of credit.

Perhaps the worst thing about this is that GM and Ford (Chrysler not so much) are building some really good innovative quality cars; too bad it might be too late.


Jack R.
said

Car dealers? Give me a break. They set their margins high, gouged customers whenever possible. Sold a shoddy product that they refused to support and now they're asking tax payers to support a private industry..Forget it. There was no tax breaks and money to be had when the IT industry took a massive downturn in the early 00's. No one gave a crap in fact. Why should our tax dollars be used to bail out ultra rich car lot con men? In fact why is anyone asking for a tax dollar. It's money to be used for government programs only(roads, schools, police and fire, teachers). Not support private industry. This isn't communist Canada.


rob
said

No one will ever bail out a grocery store, music shop, or local bookstore.. fine, these companies are bigger.. but the fact is this:

Sell something in demand..
People will buy it..

I own a volkswagen, and love it.. I would never own a North American piece of junk. I hope these companies die a quick death and new startups come up!


Tony P.
said

DO NOT GIVE THESE PEOPLE ANOTHER DOLLAR OF OUR TAX PAYING MONEY.

My grandmother could use another 50-100$ a month to substitute her pension, the homeless could use homes and our health care sector could use a bit more cash.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. These companies are always going to be looking for a handout and I am sorry for those that will lose their jobs, but let’s be serious, if the US is hesitant, we should be EXREMELY!

My vote for the next election is still up for grabs - an auto sector bailout will seal who I WONT vote for!



RVH
said

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Not a single cent.


David Chan
said

We've sold our souls to the Devil and now he's cashing in.


AndyL
said

Hey I also have some debts I want cleared. Where do we get in line for these bailouts. If we are going full out socialism I want my cut


CRY BABY CRY
said

Lets bail them out know so all the big wigs can get there 50 million dollars bonuses for flushing the company down the toilet. Are you kidding me. Someone should of tossed them out of their corporate jets with a parachute that may or may not work. You made your bed know you have to sleep in it!

No one listens to what the public wants. We want a fuel efficient car that doesn't cost $40,000 and wont fall apart just after the warranty expires(we've all been there). Built it and i will buy it.


Bunny
said

Who else are we going to help.I know people are losing jobs, but these guys charged way too higher priced vehicles, that wer crap.Unions pushed up their workers demands,and now THEY want us to bail them out??I say no, sorry, but NO!


Jim
said

In Montreal, the dealers refuse to open on weekends and now they want handouts?
Why don't you listen to your clients first? This quasi-monoply association of theirs here is anti-modern consumer and now they are shutting down dealers.
They would rather shut down operations than open on Saturdays and betray their "Association"!!


Gordon in Sarnia
said

Put a bullet through GM's head. The CAW's greed and GM's stupidity and blinkered philistine pig-ignorance to market conditions have destroyed the company. It's time to end it. If tax dollars are wasted propping up this dead horse , there will a tax revolution.

It's dead,Jim.


Linda in Vancouver
said

Isn't this decision going to be made in the USA?? I mean that I don't think GM can survive in Canada if GM goes down in the USA.Even if it could survive,I think help we gave the industry here would be considered a subsudy,so the vehicle would have trouble getting into the US market.
But the mayors do have a lot to worry about.These companies can be huge sources of tax revenue for any town or municipality.
There is a lumber company I know of which has mills on Vancouver Island,and in Arizona.In BC,local taxes are over $6 million dollars per year.In Arizona,the same mill pays $750,000 per year.
While it is possible some union workers get a bit to greedy,I would rather pay workers than send the profits off to foreign shareholders.But all companies should be playing the same game,on a level playing field.Worker demands must be reasonable.But we should not let cheaper foreign wages be the trend for all workers in Canada.
But,if we rely on exports to make money,we have to compete.If we don't want lower wages for workers,we have to find other ways for companies to cut costs enough to keep them in business.But,just hear the howls of protest when companies get tax reductions.
It makes me wonder if we can ever be satisfied with anything government does.


Food for Thought
said

Can you imagine if big oil suddenly made the same demands that the big 3 car companies are making as oil prices plunge ever downward? You could replace all car company/association references in this article with oil company/references and replace Ontario city names with Alberta city names and make the same argument for giving a “bail-out” to the oil companies.

I can imagine the public outcry if the oil companies were the ones asking for money. We wouldn’t do it for big oil and the implications would be similar so why are we even considering doing it for the big 3?



Roger
said

I understand the sentiment about not wanting to give tax dollars to prop up the auto industry. Consider this, however. Are you prepared for the massive negative and disastrous fallout if these industries fail? If you think government assistance for the auto sector is costly, try to imagine supporting hoards of unempolyed workers from the car manufacturers and those tied to it. Imagine the costs involved with attempting to recover from massive layoffs and the burden on the system it would impose for a long period of time. Also consider this. What about the untold millions of tax dollars these industries have contributed to the public coffers over the years? Further, what about the large taxes paid by these "overpaid" workers? Have you considered that making $13/hr brings in about $4/hr in tax revenue versus about $10/hr in tax revenue for a wage of, say, $35/hr? Before you jump on the bandwagon of putting the last nail in the coffin you'd better consider and be prepared for the consequences. What's better? Pay now or pay heavily later?


Al
said

These are people who have ripped off consumers for years and all of them living high society while the rest of us eke out a meager living. Now they are using the scariest tactics of all to rip us off some more through government bailouts by threatening to cut jobs. I say, "let' em sink."


Justin
said

GM, Ford, Chrysler, welcome to bankruptcy!
Fix you operation, and build some quality cars, perhaps then you'll survive.


CR
said

What they need to do is cut off the benefits Other compainies are doing this most recently Bell Canada, that is alot of money being spent. Wages are tough to take away from but i agree that they make far too much. Like everyone else I want to buy a car for 10-12 thousand and our canadian companies arent doing that.


WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR
said

What part of “WHATEVER THE MARKET WILL BEAR” does the Retail Industry and especially the Auto Industry in our country not get these days. They certainly got the high price part when they were demanding ridiculous prices for their products based on high demand. Well guess what, the demand is not there any more so why are the prices still way up there. If they want to play the demand game with prices then maybe they should be prepared to take the bad with the good instead of whining to the Government for bailouts. My guess is that so many of the Retailers built up their businesses based solely on the highest demand prices instead of an average. That is POOR management, plain and simple and now they expect Canadians to bale them out. Well guess what, the consumers in our country are not stupid and if you think there is any sympathy for those that were making a bundle while the demand was high, think again. The head of the CADA would have you believe that car prices are the lowest they have been in 16 years and then goes on to qualifies it by saying that it is based on consumer incomes. They are still playing the marketing game trying to justify their ridiculous prices instead of basing prices on what it actually costs to manufacture the products. Get it through your heads if you are trying to sell products that nobody wants then it is the PRICE that HAS to reflect the demand. It’s called Marketing 101, and until the Retail Industry finally gets it and stops living in a dream world, there should not be ANY bailouts.


Scott in Halifax
said

HMMM. What to do? If we bail out the car companies, jobs will be saved and a large percentage of the bailout will be going to new plants like the one in RUSSIA (not Canada). If we don't bail them out, thousands of jobs (in Canada and the United States) will be lost, but the new plants in Mexico and Russia will still operate. I guess it all boils down to whether or not the auto makers can get out of the pockets of OPEC. It's a well known fact that the two industries (auto's and oil) run hand in hand. Without each other, there would be neither (or at least not as large). The public has been wanting gas efficient vehicles for a long time now, and when a hybrid is produced, only the well off can afford them. I require a minivan because of family. I would pay through the nose for a hybrid minivan from any of the Big 3. However, science and technology shows that there are other sources to power vehicles other than oil. Wake up. Maybe I would be a little more compassionate if the auto industry did something for us instead of them.


Dan in Trenton
said

If we are going to invest in a car company, let's invest in a winning company. Perhaps the billion dollars of Canadian aid should go to Toyota. Why invest in a failing company like GM, Ford or Chrysler? Give the money to Toyota so they can invest it in R+D and make even more fuel efficient cars - here in Canada.


Nick
said

I am for the Auto Bailout as long as the Unions are willing to take a 20% pay cut.

$30/hr to screw a bolt on a frame is what will kill a company. GM should go to the Union and say "20% pay cut, or you're all fired"

It'd save the auto industry.

Auto Workers need to realize they are partly to blame as their greed has priced themselves out of a job.


David
said

Many cities,rely on a single large industry. Be it the Auto, minning forestry, tourism and so on. there are many cities to be saved but
Before any money is spent on saving the auto indusrty we should have gaurantees in place from the Auto industry that X amount jobs are saved per evry million dollars invested if not we just throwing good money away.

You want more people to buy cars take the 25 billion they are asking for and pay off evryone mortages in Canada.


Belle River Woman
said

I pray that the Canadian government does not offer any kind of bailout; let our capitalist economy function as it is supposed to. I live in the Windsor-area, sure to be the hardest hit in Ontario, and know enough autoworkers that I am completely turned off by their "it's all about me" mentality. The greedy CAW is as complicit in this downfall as the corporations themselves. If this industry is offered any kind of bail-out package, then every failing industry has argument for the same offer: Forestry, farming, mining, small business, social services...every time job cuts are faced, no matter how small the population segment affected, why should they be treated any differently? Leave well enough alone.


Chris from Oshawa
said

I don't feel one bit of pity for those auto workers! They did it to themselves, always demanding more and more and more money from the companies they worked for, when they should have been just so darn happy to have a freaking job in the first place! Fire them all and give the jobs to those who would truly appreciate them instead of the greedy people who work for them now. I guess they bit off more then they could ever chew in the debt dept so they are looking again to the taxpayers to bail them out.
Screw em I say , look in the mirror for why you have no job left.


Walter (Wpg)
said

How can management do their job, if unions keep breathing down their necks. Labor has been too strong for decades. Let the automakers flip hamburgers for a year and see if $35,000 is not a good wage instead of $80,000 to $100,000 with unreallistic benefits.
Let all 3 car manufacturers go down and someone will make them operate again with a profit and employees that will appreciate having a job.


No Money for the BIG? three
said

No money to the big three--seems the Toyota's and Honda's aren't crying-- They are still selling cars--


CB
said

A few thoughts to add to the table...why is is that imports are allowed into our country without the heavy taxes/tariffs that is required for our North American vehicles to be allowed into Honda/Toyota, etc.'home'countries? That in itself creates an unequal playing field. If these taxes were implemented, do you think they would still be here and selling in the numbers that they are. I'm not so sure.
Secondly, wouldn't you rather offer a bailout with your tax dollars as opposed to EI/Welfare Benefits which these workers will require when they are not working and can't find work? And it will not only affect the auto workers...it will have a ripple effect into many other companies as well. I hate to break it to you people, but it will all come from the same pot!


Simon Shaw
said

I have never been in a Union.

It saddens me to think that someone could say that a person with a grade 11 education is not deserving of a lifestyle as someone who has attained a higher level of education.

I should be paid more because I am smarter than you? Is this the world we really want to pass on?

What about the technical skills required to build a car. Take any nurse and drop her into an auto plant and they would need education to learn what to do.

These individuals in the auto sector have picked up a skillset and should be paid for it. Anyone can become a nurse. You have to go to school and pick up a skill set.

The men and women who build the vehicles that have built this nation desrve the pay they get.

What we need to do is ban all parts and cars being made in countries that choose not to pay their workers a comparable minimum wage. This is what is undermining our industry.

How can we compete against Japanese and Chinese made parts?

The only way it could be possible to compete is to get rid of the unions and pay our good Canadian workers 10 cents an hour with no benefits.

Does this sound like the Canada you want to live in?


BC Pensioner
said

I am angry that 'Car Dealers' should even think about bail-outs, I know of one dealer who runs a very expensive jet aircraft and has a 50 foot yacht as toys. If this government bails out these car dealers they will not have my vote next election. They are just a bunch of money grabbers.

On wages - I retired 5 years ago from the Aircraft industry where I was a Transport Canada Licensed Maintenance Engineer and earned $25/ hour - + no benifits. So a grade 10 employee earns $70+/hr. Oh, it's only 7% of the vehicle cost. !

I own a 2004 Volkswagen Jetta Diesel and it gets between 55-60 mpg, seats 5, 6 airbags, never been in for repairs, only for oil service, the 'big three' have nothing to offer me for a vehicle, until they do I will still buy from other manufacturers.

Just my 2 cents worth.


Bob AB
said

Just a few points:
1. to CADA who sayto consumers "just go out and buy a car" I guess they don't get the fact that consumers are TAPPED.
2. Why should the tax payers contribute to support the industry when I have NOT hears one word about wage consessions from within the industy (from corporate execs to the unioned employees).
3. When the Trudeau Liberals desimated the western economy with the National Energy Policy I did not hear any support from the auto eastern based auto sector.
I don't want to hear anymore whining I would like to hear what those in the industry are going to do to help themselves before I agree to any hand out


Rod in Alberta
said

Make a vehicle purchase tax deductible for the little folks like me….

Also Homes too!

Maybe that will get things moving...


Dexter
said

$400 for floor mats??? And we wonder why they are going down the tubes.
Never mind a bail-out; take that money and start a NEW car company, and employ all the best of the the employees from the bankrupt ones. Make, and sell the cars that people actually want...


Scott
said

Here's an idea.--- Let OPEC bail them out.


Hybrid Shmybrid
said

I'm so sick of the intellectually lazy who support the 'enviromental' movement ... the Hybrid would be an enviornmental DISASTER ... where do you think the electricity comes from to power the car...from the Energy Fairy?

And where do you think the batteries in the Hybrids will be buried once they're dead? In the ground where they will leak for hundreds of years.

It will require massive natural resources to re-charge the Hybrid and the increased care batteries will be leaking acid into our ground and water for years.

STOP LISTENING TO EMPTY HEADED CELEBRITIES!

They Hybrid is not the answer.


Allie
said

Auto sales were up in Canada in Oct.
Other auto companies are doing fine, PArts companies will make parts for the other companies as GM, Ford, and all the others go out. Maybe the parts companies should have seen the market turn and started making envorimental parts years ago. Or a least not depend on just one company to buy there product. I know people who have worked for GM, they were uneducated and rich. What a combination. I know they felt they could never lose there job.(about 80000 grand a year depending) Goes to show you we should all continue our education.


Brin
said

I am contacting my MP to make it clear that my tax dollars will not bail out one bloody car company! You do the same. These politicians in our so-called democracy keeping feeding crooked corporations with my son's future and our hard earned money.

Finally, for the love of god ... to all the baby boomers who are running the Big 3 and other major corporations into the ground would you just LET IT GO?!

Retire already because you're 70-year old business model is as antiquated as your demands for tax payer bail outs! The business world needs younger perspectives with a fresher, updated view on goods and services to take us into the next 100 years.


As another comment stated: let the companies die and something new, better and more relevant will replace it. The globe is in the process of re-inventing itself, get out of the way!


DP
said

Don't spend taxpayer dollars bailing out companies that can not be managed properly and whom if continued to run in the manner they are now will be bankrupt in a couple of years anyway, effectively flushing our money down the toilet.

Let the Big 3 declare bankruptcy so they can reorganize to become more efficient.

If automotive workers for the big 3 want to keep their jobs, let them suck it up and take a salary cut to save them. 25 bucks an hour is better than employment insurance.



Perfect time for an Auto Industry Revolution
said

I will be sorry to see so many Canadians lose their jobs, but I don't support the auto industry bail out. Let the Big 3 crash and burn. I suspect the number of potential unemployed is very much exaggerated. Sure anyone employed by the Big 3 and the suppliers of parts used only by the Big 3 will lose their jobs. But there are still a lot of cars on the road and a lot of other car companies out there. Not everyone will be unemployed. The Big 3 have to reap what the sowed, and their employees that have also been laughing all the way to the bank with their overinflated wages will have to suffer the consequences.


Sean Calder
said

I would MUCH prefer to take any proposed money for a "bail-out" or "assistance fund" etc, and instead put it into the retraining, assistance and redistribution of the auto-sector work force into other necessary and short-handed fields, such as the other skilled trades (carpentry, plumbing, electricians etc).

I believe that any money we spend as a nation would be better invested in that than continuing to prop up the industry that we have been for the past 10-15 years. Better to move those workers to other sectors experiencing shortages in their own workforce.

How many more billions of dollars are we going to spend to keep patching a sinking ship?


MuskyBuck
said

@ Roger,

If we're speaking about Canada here, ....they're all unemployed already or soon to be.

The plants are closed.

They're already costing us and the Big 3 are trying to get us to pay them more to open back up for business.

I've never been one to fall for the 'the sky is falling' sentiment because things change.

There has alway been progress in humanity. Sometimes it's painful but none the less important.

Never has the world ended, humanity cease to exist or all of us having to go live a park because of the changes fortunes of business.

Never.

Remember this basic factual principle of all things...nature abhores a vacuum.


GP
said

NO NO NO, a fundamental principle of the "free market" is that badly run businesses are allowed to fail.

The only thing that is going on here is the privatization of profits off the backs of the taxpayers.

The Auto Industry's only answer is to get rid of employee benefits...that is so stupid. It has nothing to do with the reason they are failing. This is a complete red herring and completely misrepresentative of the real problem here...they make a product people do not want to buy. How does reducing peoples benefits solve this problem. It is a pure American approach…we are not American, our values are different, we believe in social values NOT profit before all else.

LET THEM FAIL...short term pain for long term gain.


JJ from Ontario
said

I am tired of listening to the lament of the big three car manufacturers loosing money and job losses. What about the pulp and paper industries where plants were closed and thousands of people lost their jobs after 40 years of employment!! Did the government give those poor unemployed people any free handouts. NO!
Cars are a luxury item that a lot of people can well do without instead of a vehicle in their driveway for each person living in the house.


Davey boy
said

People never usually learn anything unless they fall on hard times and the effects are felt personally. I think some of these people and industries need to be taught a personal lesson on the effects of being greedy. Sure We'll hurt for a bit but we are resilient. New industry and new innovation will come about. We'll be much better off. That is until the next greedy phase. I say let the industry and all associated work it out for them selves. I don't like to pay my taxes to support private business. Taxes are not meant for that. I hope the government realizes that. There are many small businesses that are in crisis as well but will never collect one red cent of tax payer money. So let's have a system if one gets a bailout we all get a bailout. What makes an auto plant workers lively hood better or more important than someone else's in the food industry. We all want a good life but many of us are willing to WORK for our money and tighten our belts. Nobody in any business or work force should have the feeling or right of entitlement in any job. The tax payer owes the auto industry nothing and should proceed that way


Gerry McCowan
said

Restructure is the way to go. Chapter 8, then come back as a smaller but profitable company. I feel for the workers. But I am not sure if I heard right but auto workers make over $70 a hour,Wow.


Mike
said

Unions are not the problem here. I work for Essar Steel Algoma, and we are the one of the lowest cost producers in North America. Yes we have a union. I have worked on both sides of the equation, Union and Management and there is a need for both. A company can trample the rights of a worker while a union can hinder operations. They need to work together in times of need. When the company is making millions, then $70/hr is not enough! When the company is struggling, then obviously there needs to be some give on the union side. Otherwise neither the worker nor management will have a job to go back to.


Richie
said

These are the same people who asked American dealerships to refuse to sell Canadians cars... Now they want our cash? Absolutely sickening... These white-collar criminals are the true scum of this earth.


Stevie
said

NO SYMPATHY FOR CAW!!!! Lower your salaries or GO BROKE! Your choice!


Dave from Toronto
said

What is it about union workers that think they can quit highschool, get a job at 16-18 yrs old, work 30yrs and then live on a "safe" pension for another 40 yrs? This is the big 3's problem. I will work my entire life and hopefully have another 20yrs at the end to retire. Not only that but when they retire at the age of 45, they get another job, such as real estate agent and "dabble" in that industry. Should they get a hand-out, I say no! Let them go bankrupt, forced to restructure. To bail them out now, when there are no customers to buy the product is insane! There are too many dealers, cars last longer, and there are a ton of good used cars for sale. If we bail them out, then who next? Not the self-employed...that's for sure.


Stephen
said

I have had enough! When you hear one of the execs saying that they are in it for the money not for the cars... does that not say it all. I look at my street 40 homes.. not one North American Vehicle. We were a GM family, my father, myself... for over 40 years combined... new car every three years... GM... it's been over 15 years now... Japanese... They work, don't break down, don't rust and dealers that actually care!


Blame Ontario
said

Ontario is dead weight for this country.

I am originally from the west but, have lived in Ontario for several years and the insane mindset of this province is the reason our country is stuck economically in the manufacturing, industrial and natural resource sectors.

This is a population that believes in making $50/hour on an assembly line for three years, bankrupt the company, be unemployed for years while waiting for the government to make it all better. The worst part of it is they've raised the new generation like this too, most young people in Ontario refuse to do one single thing outside the box, refuse to do anything different from their parents and are sitting on their butts while the entire nations economy falls apart AGAIN, in large part because of this province.

If anyone so much as whispers the need for change or suggest it's time to do something different, the picket lines go up in a fury and highschool drop outs will line the streets demanding things stay exactly the same.

If Ontario doesn't drastically change it's ways, we'll be in this exact same spot again in five years just like they had us here five years ago and five years before that ...


MM
said

I don't think they should be bailed out. The owners and CEO's are making a tonne of money. Maybe they should put some of their own money back into the business. They should also sell off assets like their private jets. I feel for the people that could lose their jobs but I don't care inb the least what happens to the rich owners and CEO's. Instead of bailing them out the government should just take over and have these companies publically run. We have to stop dishing out cash to the rich people. Let them struggle like they make their employees struggle to survive.

MM


Dr. James Bradford
said

Day after day I see a lot of really foolish statements being posted on these blogs.

All this "bravado" with chants of "let them fail" is coming from people who are ignorant about the seriousness of the economic woes facing the world.

If the Big 3 fail you have a good chance of losing your own job because the ripple effect will be like a Tsunami broadsiding our economy and unless you have no debt and a mountain of cash you will suffer.

I have little patience for the cavalier attitudes of those who never experienced the great depression and are saying let the the big 3 fail. It isn't that easy a situation. You cant blow and suck at the same time. You cant let them fail then demand social welfare. There needs to be wealth generators. Our Nintendo raised, tech gadget loving society has no clue what suffering is but they are about to find out of this situation isn't handled properly.




Rob
said

I say peg the benefits and pay of the BIG 3 workers to those of Honda and Toyota, no less no more! That would be a first step


Sandra
said

I am not for an auto bailout because that will not help the fact the people cannot afford to buy a car. The only reason they are in a crisis has to do with the fact people are paying almost 500 a month for oil and not to mention gas. Add the groceries and you are not left with much at the end of the month. People now more then ever are living check by check and often credit card by credit card. Then you reach the end of the line and have no more credit left. You see in the stores and even the theatres.

I am in the miritimes and was apauled to see when Timmy's CEO come on TV and show his 30 million dollar yatch off while the workers are forced to get buy on 7 an hour and not even given a free timbit or cookie! And other industry CEO's and executive of insurance and oil companies and reporting record profits in the millions and billions!

You look at starbucks and think that the only one's be able to afford there products are their executives. This is why i don't see how any money is going to help. There was someone saying that the union should be taking paycuts, well what about that executives travelling in thier personal plan's? and not to mention earning millions in bonuses while there employees are lucky to get 10 cents an hour raise!


Sick of Whining CEOs
said

I'll tell you what makes me mad. I make $13/hr and my husband makes $15/hr, and it is proposed that our tax money should be used to save the job of someone who makes $70/hr. Am I the only person who thinks this is skewed? Here is a plan. Fire the auto workers and hire my husband and I. We will work for you for $35/hr and be grateful for it.

CEO's take a pay cut. Sell your jet, your yacht, your Hummer, your Jag and skip the bonus. That is what business owners do when they want to save their business from going under.

These people have no concept of what reality is.


GaryJ
said

Please..No BailOut at all period. End corporate welfare once and for all.


PS in Ottawa
said

Who's Next? The Oil Companies? Cant survive on Oil under 100$ all of a sudden!


David Dunlop
said

The government doesn't need to give car dealerships money, it needs to insist the banks make it easier for people to get car loans at reasonable rates. The banks got a full percent cut in interest rates and passed on half to the consumer crying the blues. Then they got billions in liquid cash when the government took over mortgages and the banks response was to tighten up their purse strings keeping the billions instead of making the money available to consumers. Bank greed is the root of the problem.


PB Toronto
said

get rid of Unions and start giving pay cuts. No one can blame anyone for trying to make an honest buck but most these guys are way over paid for what they do. Its no wonder they in financial trouble. It doesnt take a genius to figure it out. Unions have lost there usefulness greed had replaced job security. Let them fail - survival of the fittest.


Garry in NS
said

Any bail-out or assistance to the Canadian Auto Industry has to have preconditions. Specifically, Executive Management and the CAW must first be willing to make considerable and binding concessions. If not, then let them fail! Both parties are responsible for their fiscal shortsightedness and greed.


Tyson AB
said

To Roger

I'd rather pay heavily later, Im 21 years old and grew up being taught that capitalism is the only system that prevails in society.Now that Im watching it fail, we keep putting band-aids on our problems, rather then placing the blame on capitalism. We Need to go from short term to long term thinking.

"Capitalism is not sustainable by its very nature. It is predicated on infinitely expanding markets, faster consumption and bigger production in a finite planet." ("It's capitalism or a habitable planet - you can't have both." Robert Newman

We need to put our efforts toward humanity rather then worrying about who has the greatest GDP.


KMA
said

What the heck does OPEC have to do with anything?

Everytime we in North America cause a catastrophe globally, whether it be humanitarian (wars in Afghanistan & Iraq) or economic (mortgage & market collapse thanks to USA, demise of big3) we're always blaming the Arabs. The Arabs have nothing to do with any of this; if you're looking to place blame, blame those Americans. And Harper. And Stockwell "Bring on the Rapture" Day.

Scott ... I blame people like you because I guarantee you supported all the horrid foreign policy decisions that lead to sky high oil & gas prices and now you're whining about OPEC.


Roger T
said

No Bailouts for TAX PAYERS money. The bid 3 made money from over charging consumers and never gave us consumers a break, i would suggest that our Gov't stays out of the auto sector by using TAX PAYERS money to fund their greedy VP's and directors.

To start perhaps the auto sector should cut the employee numbers to balance the payroll and cut wages and stop the union. They haven't taken any serious actions WITHIN before asking while the unions are demanding bailouts.

Regardless, no one wants to buy an over priced car or over sized car now a days. The gas prices is a temporary fix so don't be fooled and run out to buy a big car.


brian johnson
said

The BC Forest Industry could also use a few billion.

We also manufacture a product (lumber) that nobody wants.

Brian


Joel in Kamloops
said

Tough luck for the auto business, but don't expect any sympathy from me. Losing your job is part of life.

Sometimes enough is enough, and that time has come.

There are lots of fields that need labour. It might mean retraining, but there are many worse things in life than having to start a new job.

Let all of them fail.

And who is to say that new auto companies won't spring up? These big companies are so huge that they are no longer nimble and can't or won't respond to consumer demands.

NO HANDOUTS FOR THE AUTO SECTOR.


Young jeezy
said

North American in general should start making reliable vehicles that would actually be worth bailing out


Jack W
said

These are the same dealers that made it impossible for Canadians to buy new cars in the US. Now they want our help. Go to hell !!



Allan
said

Give me a good reason and a good solution (i.e. who's getting canned and affordable vehicles) and I'd consider changing my opinion. But if it's just about mass panic and digging yourself in a hole, they'll have to do better than that. Sure there would be an economic crash, with thousands collecting on UI, businesses shutting down, low morale,etc. but the fact of the matter is...those "Bailout Billions" are still in the bank for a use that will benefit all the taxpayers...not just the Big 3. Maybe bail out all the tax payers, then we can all buy new cars ;)


David
said

Let's see if I have this correct ... The Car companys that were charging Canadians 20%+ more than Americans for Canadian built cars last year when our dollar was strong, now wants the same taxpayers to bail them out? Talk about nerve!


The Deception...
said

"LET THEM FAIL...short term pain for long term gain".

It wont be short term pain... it will be long term pain for most people as in twenty years before we see things back to any semblance of normality of we let them fail.

They need help but they also need to be held to a set of guidelines for success and payback of the funds.





Small business owner
said

My husband and I are owners of a small business. When times are tough for us the government is not forthcoming with any handouts. Why should the big 3 be any different? Our employees have never felt a need to be unionized and we cannot afford a private jet. But we have been in business and survived the ups and downs for over 20 years. We hope to survive this downturn in the economy too. We believe the big 3, their executive and their employees, need to grow up and not expect the taxpayer (in the form of the government)to bail them out. It will be hard for many, many people. But that is just the way life can go. We currently own North American vehicles but perhaps we won't be able to in the future. So be it.


Cambob
said

I do not want to buy what they are selling. Why am I being forced to do it? Business is business people!

It's bad enough that we bail out failing airlines, ridiculous tv, and a postal system that is 'virtually' on it's death knell. ENOUGH!

If these multi billion dollar companies beg for welfare, then something is horribly wrong. And if my government gives in to their blackmail laced demands, then we are all fools.


duff sigurdson
said

They have been producing crap products for decades, if your business failed because you were a lousy businessman, would the gov't come to your aid?

Don't worry about plant closures, Toyota, Honda et al will buy up the remains and produce well built, good
looking cars, something the big 3 havn't done in years.

We should not be spending one more dime on these companies.


Ester from Oshawa
said

They should be bailed out WITH a plan. I don't buy this build what we want attitude. People did want big honking SUVs before the gas reached 1.40L fueled by China's demand.

By the way, I heard Honda today is laying off people as well. They are being subsidized by their government. Why people are so anti-Canadian and American and pro Asian is beyond me.

We've been loyal GM custormers for years and in some cases have put on 360 ks with minimal problems.

We know someone who loved their GM vehicle until they had a repair bill after 3 years. All of a sudden they were driving a piece of junk. Believe it or not people!! This guy bought a pile of junk Toyota, and he questioned himself whether he took good enough care of it. Can you believe that!

Toyota had more recalls last year than any other manufacturer but no-one ever heard about that. We should be standing up for our industry instead of trying to sabotage it.

Sure they have their problems, there are too many perks in the GM industry amongst labourers, but in order to compete effectively everyone's wages will be low enough just to get by or not at all. Is that what everyone is after. Third world standard of living.

Lately that's what it seems like to me.


Bonnie
said

TO BARRIE
PLEASE,give me a break
the average school teacher makes 60 dollars per hour!!! not 27.


Cambob
said

Just curious... Why doesn't the CAW go on strike? Canada Post is on strike.. again.. just before Christmas.

CAW should demand job security, higher wages, extended vacation periods, unlimited health benefits, 4 hour workdays, paid daycare..etc.



MH from Ottawa
said

Maybe car dealers, and car manufacturers and parts manufacturers et al... should be talking to the CAW union executive and members about the position THEY have placed the car industry in... Years of rotating strikes and unreasonable demands for salaries and benefits and job security are about to come crashing down on them.

No mystery why Buzz got out of the union business before it all burned down around him...


WHAT THEY'RE WORTH
said

Has everyone out there forgot that products should sell for what they are worth. Plain and simple, if your products are not selling, they are priced too high. Novel concept these days but basic in Marketing 101. OH darn, that's right everyone is still stuck on the new Marketing 909 concept where the retailer has to convince the consumer that their product is worth twice what the consumer thinks it is worth. Quite a concept really, price your product way over what consumers are willing to pay and then look for government assistance because nobody wants to buy your product. Wake up everyone, the solution is staring everyone in the face. If the Big 3 want to sell their vehicles in Canada then they had better start pricing them at what they are worth and that can ONLY be determined by the consumer.


Tim
said

Wonderful. I sit in a little rural Ontario Community that has been hit by closures by Hershey Chocolate, Stanley Tools and the Rideau Regional Centre. Everybody says too bad, thats life, so sorry. But when something happens that brings everybody else into the same boat all of a sudden I have to subsidize their bad luck through my taxes. Funny how that works. I say the same thing that I was told should be told to them - "the market will adjust, things will even out in the long run - that's the way the system works"


Shaking my head
said

Carlos...
In your defense of the union members in the automotive sector you said that most people here haven't even seen inside of an assembly plant. Probably true - but I have. I have done contract work for 2 of the big 3 and have been in many of those 2 companies facilities. Let me share a few of my observations that are neither propaganda or misinformation - it's fact.
Approx. 3-4 years ago the CAW workers in the paint shop at one of the plants in Ontario were told they could no longer bring in their TV's or XBoxes to watch/play while on the line (yeah, they were permitted prior). How did this people respond to that directive? The ENTIRE department called in sick the next day resulting in the whole plant having to be shut down for the shift. No misinformation - I was there.
How about the fact that the CAW is not willing to give up any benefits or wages to assist in making THEIR plants and jobs relevant - hmmm....not even willing to give up that 1 Spa week each person gets every year (yes, a SPA week - paid)
How about the fact that in alot of departments they have a quota and once that is filled they can go home. For example, if your job is material handler and you unload the parts from the trucks you are only expected to do 5 trucks in a shift. If you get done in 3 hours, you go home and still get paid your full shift. I bet in the non-union plants, those guys would be moved to another area for the rest of their day- ya know, productive!!
Not enough room to continue, but easily could!!


Joe
said

I can't afford to buy even a later model used truck, why should I pay taxes to cover the butts of those who put the prices out of sight?


Scott
said

For KMA,
I refer to OPEC as an organization that profitted horribly because the automakers made gas guzzling vehicles over the years. You can't tell me that the 2 organizations aren't in kohoots with each other. You need to wake up. If the auto makers always made fuel efficient cars, what would OPEC do. They are the ones who benefited the most over the years. How much profit did Exxon or Texaco make in a quarter this year -- Billions? That is ludicrous. I have always been in favour of what was right and what was wrong. It only makes sense that the ones that profitted the most for the car industries be the ones to bail them out. That's all, nothing more.


RayL
said

People are going to drive cars with or without the big three. The disaster scenarios are bogus.


Doug Alberta
said

You people must have lost your minds, certainly your conscience. We can't let this industry collapse, there is too much to lose in ignoring reality. Now you blame the Unions?? I don't care where you work, if the auto industry goes down you can kiss goodbye a lot of what you have now! See if Toyota or Honda will help out your community after the big three are gone. LOL.


dw
said

The dealers should be insisting that any bailout include a restructured union wage/benefit scale. They too have greedy, overpaid, all about me technicians in the shops. I know a few dealers who'd love to tell their techs making $35/hr with a 300% productivity ratio to get lost.


Kim Vincent
said

Let the Big Three Auto Makers fall into bankruptcy. It would force them to streamline and still keep jobs and it forces the Unions to fall into line too. Why should the auto industry get a handout when the forest industry has been suffering for over a year now and have laid off people too. Do these people not count, as much as the auto people's jobs. It is wrong to hand these bigwigs any money so they can handout golden parachutes and then come back begging for more money from the taxpayers. I don't see the forest industry asking for a handout and the automakers should be ashamed to ask for it. They put themselves there let them deal with it without taxpayers money.


Ryan in Burlington
said

I don't condone the upper management of these companies making what they do. If they were true leaders, they would sacrifice their yearly pay and bonuses in order to ensure the salvation of their company and their workers. By not doing this, they are showing the world they don't care.

At the same time, the same applies to the CAW and the other unions involved in this mess. The unions should step up and take a collective pay cut as employees. They make stupid money for what they do, especially since they don't have formal educations.

Each side has to make a sacrifice if they want a future! I don't know about the rest of Canadians, but I sure know that I don't want to be "donating" my tax dollars to these greedy pigs!


Ted
said

I have read most of the comments on here. General sentiment would indicate that we a need an automotive industry revolution. People seem fed up with the industry. I have to agree. I graduated with a degree, and I work in sales in a different industry. I'm self-made. There are jobs out there, particularly in sales.

I've worked for a union before and I remember having a union rep ask me to slow down my efforts or face discipline...how does that make sense. Life will go on should we see a collapse. Throwing money at the problem rarely solves it. I say we need this change. As long as I've driven a car, I've seen the Big 3 as secondary to other, better build vehicles. This is contrary to my fathers opinion to buy American/Canadian...sorry. You had this coming. The younger generation will not tolerate this fat cat mentality of a redundent industry.


T in Calgary
said

I keep seeing comments about buying 'Canadian' instead of 'imports' or disallowing 'foreign' cars, etc. so maybe someone can educate me on this...

What is the difference between Ford Canada and Toyota Canada? GM Canada and Honda Canada? etc, etc.

Aren't ALL major car companies in Canada foreign to Canada?

All of these companies employ Canadians in their plants, offices, etc. All of them have their headquarters outside of Canada and all of them have shareholders across the world that 'own' the company. There seems to be NO such thing as a 'domestic' car in Canada. What am I missing?

On the topic of bailouts I'm firmly against them as well. Capitalism doesn't work if there's no penalty for failure and inevitably bailouts hurt the small companies that don't have a large enough voice to lobby the government for special treatment. If a local bakery is in trouble can they get a bailout? What about a restaurant with 3 stores all in one city? What about a hair salon? We can't bail everyone out so to be fair we shouldn't bail anyone out. It's harsh but I believe it'll lead to a better situation in the future with leaner, more competitive businesses in Canada.


LJ
said

Which CEO are willing to give up something, ie bonuses (unlike their American couterparts who won't even give up their private jets) to say the industry.


Doug
said

Just what do people think that our tax money is going to do to help the auto industry in Canada. Not one of the manufacturers are Canadian so if the American or Japanese owners, for that matter, decide to close the plants what recourse do we have? With auto sales going the way they are the closures are a very real possibility.


Amy in Landmark, MB
said

Maybe we all need this reality check. We have all been living high on the hog, from worker to Corporate executive, for years now. We have been living beyond our means and now it is time to pay the piper. Unfortunately, it will be painful for us all but we really have no one to blame but ourselves. When will someone stand up and just take responsibility?


DRIVING A DODGE
said

There is no reasonable solution.

The Big 3 may need to die and the cities that are affected are going to need to restructure thier economies.

I have a Dodge Caravan sitting in my driveway. That`s about as much as one person can offer.

These are hard times and to bail out these companies will be a bad precedant.




Jeff
said

Jeff
What are unions thinking? I just drove by a parts manufacturer here in Cambridge and CAW is outside striking? The big 3 are broke because of them but yet they have the guts to strike in these times. What are they looking for now?

Anybody who strikes in Times like this should lose there jobs, i'm sure there are hard working people out there that would take their jobs for half of what they are making now and they would probably work a lot harder.
Toyota and Honda are the smart ones...keep unions out.



Jerry R
said

Not a surprise! Stand in the gravy line. Look around. Car dealerships with the largest and bloated car lots are the BIG 3! Maybe, just maybe they should have anticipated this slowdown and sold off there vast Real Estate holdings or better yet, diversified!


Rob
said

Answer me this taxpayers...

How many dollars have the management, the employees the dealers and the unions pledged to bailout the auto industry themselves?? If they believe the in the industry let's see them step up to the plate first...No one? Anybody?

Don't be giving me the sob story about all of the excess jobs lost,the industry will return naturally when demand returns, meanwhile I will NOT support the fat cat unions period they do not seem to have any financial difficulties now do they?



Shan
said

It is unsustainable. Cars are built better than before, and the current rate of sales is simply unsustainable. We need less cars. The government should not bail out the auto industry. The government should not try to prop up a declining industry at the expense of overtaxing emerging industries. It should however take steps to stabilize our dollar, financial markets, and keep investment capital available in the market.


Thomas
said

All these guys are doing is asking for taxpayers $$ -- where will the dollars go - how much, whats the payback ? Sure- if they go under, it will hurt - but the reality is the auto sector normally sells 13 million cars a year -in 2009 the forecast is 10 million - bottom line- they have too much capacity - no money in the world will resolve this issue - they should go Chapter 11 - shrink - close plants --etc- we will be better off in the long run rather than death by a thousand cuts -- the C$ is 70 cents - we have a competitive advantage still vs. the US market - where do we draw the line - bail out the energy companies because there value is down 60% - where does it end ? what other businesses are going to need $ -- in Canada- we have already given 700 million in the past 5 years to the auto sector - what good did that do ?


Rick in AB
said

Are you kidding me?? The very same group that was too greedy to lower their product prices when the Canadian dollar was on par or better then the American dollar, and had to be outed in the press by angry consumers, is now whining that the Canadian taxpayer should fund them to stay afloat!

Well I have a few key words for you guys and they are all too colored for print! What a huge set that industry has.

I have no sympathy for you and demand that my political representatives tell you to stand on your own two feet like everyone else that goes into business in this country.

If you can't weather tough economic times then you don't deserve to be in busines.
My parents owned a smal business for 30 years and weather boom and bust in our small town and kept afloat by only spending what they can afford. I walk into dealerships all over the country and see owners with everything from exotic hunting trophies from Africa, to personal aircraft, yaughts moored on the coast for their personal use, high end luxury vehicles etc.

Liquidate your vast toys and holdings and keep your business running. I already paid too much for my vehicle and I refuse to give you my tax dollar as well while my city infastructure crumbles around me and services are cut just so you can maintain your extravagant standard of living.


James
said

Let them go under. They don't deserve bail outs if they will just once again squander their business


A.H from T.O.
said

The big Three cant survive UNLESS they reorganize under Chap 11 Bankruptcy Protection.

They will need to eliminate the Union contracts, many layers of management,
collapse pensions & benefits for retired personnel & reduce wages.

Gm has currently 60 products of which 45 are losing money and bleeding the company to death. They need to cut their losses and rebuild with the 15 to 20 top sellers and lose the rest of the dogs.

If it worked for the Airline Industry, it can work for them. ( Bankruptcy)

The Auto Industry wont disappear as some might say , on the contrary they will come out of it leaner and stronger than they have ever been in the last 50 years.

The board of directors of these companies should be ashamed at the performance of their 3 BIG CEO's in front of Congress & Senators, it was a blatant disgrace, and affront to the hard working Taxpayers of ALL countries.

All they could say over & over again is "CASH-BURN" ratio is too high. Well then start cutting hard and fast, start at the TOP & work your way down, lead by example, get your heads out of the sands of the 10 - 20 Million Dollar Salaries you're paid & get back to work.

You need a Loan then go to the bank like we all do!! No Credit or Bad Credit ? Reorg or Sell or Merg.


Rob
said

I don't feel alot of good will to companies who just don't get it, making 20 different cars with poor quality and not fuel efficent will lead to the end of the big three, time to let them die or they need to make big changes, but unless they change don't give them my money. PS i always buy Toyota's.


UNPLUGGED, CANADA
said

Line workers make what, $70 - 75 per hr; the executives make more in bonuses/perks than the average person makes in a lifetime. Don't agree with a bailout; maybe a fully repayable loan but all bonuses & raises are cancelled & hrly rate is cut in half. Laughed at the three CEO's in the US each taking a private jet to the senate hearings with their hats in hand looking for a bailout without a plan or any strings attached. Has anyone noticed how quiet the unions are. They are big players in this mess & now seemed to have lost their voice. Don't you just love the way the auto makers threaten that there will be no cars unless we bail them out. So I don't have a car: I also don't have ins.premiums,car pymts,gas costs, parking fee's, etc. This is starting to sound real good, maybe the public transit isn't so bad after all.


Rob
said

I agree with the anti Union comments, how can a grade 10 drop out make $70,000 per year, crazy, but the unions are going to ruin the big three, can you say, "would you like a donut with your coffee" auto workers better get used to saying that becuase that s what they are heading for.


GM Driver
said

OK guys reality Check, Iam not a union member and never was , however I do understand the union claimns , Unions claim higher salaries ects for their members when they are able to show that the Management and or Business are making a profit , when profit is being made they have a right to an increase in salary , no different that if the company you are working for is making money , you get salary increase and bonus ect ...

The big 3 have been making hugh profits however they did not foresee the issues that took us all this summer .

The problem is they put their eggs in one small basket large SUV's , the management of the big 3 are more too blame here than the workers in the plants

For all of you who think thoses jobs are easy , try it some time . I know I would go nuts doing the same small task over and over ...


When you have CEO's making hugh huge salaries and bonues I see no reason why the line workers cannot make 30 - 60 an hour

We are partly to blaim for this as we Canadians have purchased record numbers of SUV, and food for though, if the big 3 and the part suppliers go .... all you out there with newer vehicles better hope nothing goes wrong with your $35,000 suv no GM/Ford means no warrenty !

Think about all the Canadians who have purchased new vehicles in the last 3 years what happens to them if they no longer have a warrenty





AndyL
said

KMA "What does OPEC have to do with this"
The answer is everything. People like Amadinanjad in Iran were openly trying to drive oil prices up to increase their revenues. When the barrel of oil was at 147$ they did NOTHING to try and reign in prices and that is when people stopped been able to afford their payments and stopped spending. If OPEC would have a being a good world citizen they could have helped ease this economic crisis, instead of spending it on lavish palaces and terrorism. Now that the barrel of oil is plummeting, these ecomomic terrorist are reducing output to try and bring the prices back up.

In short if these OPEC members gave money to the car companies which are a big part of their revenues instead of giving it to Arab extremist, they would actually help themselves and the world. But its unlikely that these morons who do not even treat their people well will actually do the right thing.


The fundamental question and answer
said

"Why should the big 3 be any different?"

...Simple for one reason only - Because they employ so many people and buy so much material manufactured in parts and services companies who employ even more millions of people that if the big 3 go under we won' have an economy and your business or job will go under as well due to the ripple effect!

Is it fair? Absolutely not! But do you like to eat everyday is the more relevant question or would you rather see them go under? Your choice.


Bob
said

Back in the 80's Chrysler was facing a similar situation. Lee Iaccoca went to the government and asked for help. They got it - in the form of a LOAN. The cash helped them through their restructuring and they came back stronger, produced a vehicle the masses wanted (minivan) and were able to pay the loan back. If there's gonna be ANY consideration of tax money going into the auto industry it should be a LOAN and nothing else.

That being said, going into chapter 11 is the best thing that could happen to them. A cash bailout is just a bandaid but without fundamental restructuring it will be business as usual which isn't working so hot thus far.

The unions have seriously shot themselves in the foot here. Once again it goes to what I've veen saying for YEARS - unions nowadays have outlived their usefulness and now exist purely to support the unions. Union bosses are only interested in their own relevance so they stir the pot every few years, convincing the masses they're being so horribly mistreated they need to strike when nothing could be further from the truth. Well now they're reaping the rewards from decades of greed and hubris. CAW should fold like a pup tent - the workers would be far better off for it.

Finally... the "big 3" haven't made a vehicle worth buying in YEARS. Only in the last year or so have their quality ratings been slowly climbing back up but the damage has already been done. Their reputation for selling crappy vehicles that break down all the time is solidified in the minds of consumers. Ever wonder why Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc are having no problem?


T.J. Williams Edmonton
said

I believe that temporary cash from the taxpayer will not solve what is, essentially, a systemic problem. The fact is the Big 3's business model simply does not work anymore.
Excessive labor, pensions, health care costs, and a bloated dealer network will not allow these businesses to continue much longer, bailout or no bailout.
An orderly bankruptcy of these companies would allow much needed restructuring to occur quickly in this industry. Companies like Toyota, Honda and Daimler would likely purchase some of the Big Three's capacity and allow the profitable parts of the business to continue. Capitalism is all about "creative destruction." That is what is needed here.


Sid Matsalla
said

I agree somewhat that the auto sector needs help but they also need to help themselves before they ask for handouts. They need to go back to square one - downsize - produce less of the same. ie. GMC truck - Chev truck - make it one. HAve less of the same - one full size truck, one mid size, one full size car, one small car and so on.

Get rid of all of the multi million dollar expenditures - CEO bonus', corporate jets, lavish hotel rooms, expensive business meetings, re visit the marketing plan - do you need to spend millions on air time or paper.

I think they can help themselves first before asking for a bailout.


spaz
said

The SCARY PART of all this is the thought that government will take some kind of a role in the management of the big 3 if some kind of bailout is granted.

After watching what goes on in parlament each session and the bickering and infighting.......would you trust any of them to organize anything bigger than a 2 car funeral ???????



Jim in Edmonton
said

The reality is that the economy is shrinking and people WILL be buying less cars! Those who do buy them will want as much bang for the buck as they can get = best value. The "perception" or reality is that too many people feel that F.GM & C. products don't represent a best buy or even good buy. Their business model is unsustainable, why even the democratic party in the USA won't give them a bailout until they see a restructing plan. For myself I have a 84 Jetta Diesel and a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee, I spend money keeping these in shape because we don't plan on ever buying a new car again! Too expensive and once the warranty runs out you have to pour your money into them anyway. The gov't of Canada is over a barrel but if it must spend money do it to get out of and get past this business model, again it's a black hole. People are not a waste of money but these manfacturers are.


Rob in Winnipeg
said

Instead of bailing out the Big 3, Governments ought to be rewarding Honda and Toyota for their success (instead of rewarding the Big 3 for their abject failuare).

Don't give the 25 Billion to GM, Chrysler and Ford. Instead, give it to Honda and Toyota to build more plants here.


Allan
said

DRIVING A DODGE makes a good point. I have a Ford Fusion in my driveway. That's pretty much all I can offer. As do the millions of Canadians who own vehicles made by the big 3. Re construct. It's inevitable. I've already invested thousands into the big 3, the last thing I want is to invest more...against my will.


AndyL
said

I agree with Scott, OPEC created this problem they should pay for it. Their greed drove up energy prices and that is what strated the econimic downfall. If at least the money they made went to better the lives of their people that is one thing, but it all goes to support their extravagant life style and state sponsered terrorism. Let the Big Three fall OPEC and we will see how low the cost of a barrel of oil can go.


ME
said

Funny the company says one thing and the reality is altogether different. The company says $70 an hour but in reality they are making the same wages or less than the Toyota workers. It's the benifits, life insurance and everything the company wants to tack on to their wages that bring it up to $70. Speaking as retired union workers wife I'm darn glad we have those benifits. They make the difference between living a decent life and watching every penny. And contrary to all you union bashers we were never rolling in money as you seem to think. It is never the wages that break a company. It is poor leadership, and the high wages and perks at the top. Don't blame the workers blame the companies lack of foresight. When the Asians were going smaller and more fuel efficient, the big 3 were cranking out gas guzzler trucks and SUV's.


I work in the industry.......they'll survive
said

Corporate Welfare for the rich. There are no mom and pop businesses they all went under..no one bailed them out.
Dealerships will do fine they have garages to fix cars and do not require new product to survive. It's like funding a dinosaur. These companies could have competed by getting their hybrids out there but they have stalled and played. the conservatives cut subsidies to the poor, they better not pass them on to the rich.!!!!! we need new industry.


Should have make the changes 20 years ago!!!!
said

Don't sink money into this. Is will never survived anyway. They have watched the japaneese take over the market because they offered to their customers what they wanted with the quality they expected.

American cars are simply outdated, poor quality and unrealable.

Why sink money into such a mess


blc ontario
said

The unions of many companies have played into the downfall. Canada and the US cannot compete in the world market due to our outlandish wages. That drove up the prices of everything else.

NAFTA what a concept to include a country with a totally different class of living and wages. What did our fair governments think would happen to our economies in Canada and the USA eventually? Which I understand was predicted but waived off by the politicians.


I come from a small town where the Nestle plant closed (after numerous decades) and moved to Mexico why because it is soooooo much cheaper to produce the same thing there. Hershey in Smiths Falls the same thing.

A recent article in the Ottawa Sun noted that while it costs $300 per day wages here in Canada to make Hershey products they can do the same thing in Mexico for $30 per day wages.

We cannot survive on such an unlevel playing field.

The big 3 need to restructure and the employees and management are going to have to bite the bullet if they wish to continue to have jobs simple as that. Unfortunately one would think with the big salaries all these people would have money in the Bank. Let's not kid ourselves they have mortgages, car loans etc etc. They live beyond their means too, so the fallout if they all lose their jobs will be felt far and wide across Canada and the US.

The government needs to revisit trade agreements too. How can we possibly compete with China and expect to maintain our standard of living. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.






Betty
said

Did you hear about the new hybrid the big three are developing together?................This hybrid runs on my provincial tax dollars and when it runs out, it runs on my federal tax dollars.
Let them hang!


Gary
said

gag me with a spoon..what makes the auto industry any more entitled to my tax payer dollars as a free enterprise..it's bad enough their product is over priced and poorly made..now I have to add to the price of that vechicule the tax's it costs to bail them out...Not bloody likely..use the tools at their disposal to delcare banckruptcy and regroup at their own costs and mistakes and while they are at it throw the bloody UAW out cause we as consumers are tired of paying doctors wages to a bunch of screw and bolt turners..There's plenty of honest working Canadians that are more then willing to work at the very least half the union wages


Sylvester, Toronto
said

Sure! Provide money to the three Automakers, but first let them implement the following changes:
1)Reduce the salaries and perks (bonuses and separation benefits)of executives to what eg., Toyota pay their executives in Japan.
2)Do the same for the average worker in these companies.
3)Be competitive. Reduce the MSRP to what imports cost.
4)Any money given to be recovered as shares in the companies. No freebies.
5)Replace the current management.


Lauri
said

Saying these companies were run poorly is not looking at the entire picture. The pensions they unions forced on the big 3 is what is running them into the ground. Also, the way North Americans have jumped onto the foreign car bandwagon, there may have been quality issues in the past with the big 3 but now they are the same quality, the gas efficiency etc as foreign made cars. Yet north americans keep buying foreign cars, no wonder the domestic cars are having a problem. Domestic brands are not allowed into Japan, Korea, Germany etc in the same way we let them into North America. So our domestic industry suffers, people keep buying foreign cars, and North Americans are going to lose their jobs. BUY DOMESTIC!! I worked at Honda for a year, trust me, they break down just as much as any other car, the shop was always busy. I have a Chev, it has been great and all I do is regular maintenance and the gas milage is fabulous. Canada and the US should provide loans to these companies, it will be cheaper in the long run than paying welfare and unemployment to all those that will lose their jobs if they don't, and the unions should start making concessions because isn't it better to make a little less and have a job than be unemployed, especially in a town where you have no other options?


Paul
said

Im thinking theres likely enough used cars to last for quite sometime yet. Cuba still operates vehicles from the 40's and 50's. Now thats recycling and likely the best form of environmental friendliness we could hope to attain in short order. Parts companies can continue making parts for used vehicles. People will still work and if by chance a company figures out a way to be competitive in manufacturing vehicles then go for it.
For now, survival of the fittest should be the order of the day. Im certain we will all be driving with or without new cars coming from the plants. Oh, and dealers, you may just have to make deals with used cars only. Besides theres more money to made there for you anyhow.


John Spartan
said

Not one bloody cent to the auto manufacturers or else those political parties in favor of this will pay the price.

Let them eat cake!


bubu
said

I don't think the ripple effect is there. It will be a good move for Canada to quit Auto Assembly industry and move onto high tech, high value industry.

The gov't should subsidize the laid-off atuo workers to learn new skills, new way of building things, new trades.


D Sanchez
said

NO. NADA. NYET.

NO taxpayer funded bail-out under any circumstances for any privately run company.

If the governments give a hand-out to the so called big 3 auto makers then the line-up begins from other industries wanting hand-outs from the taxpayer and where will it end.

To the governments:

JUST SAY NO!


Josh
said

They were losing money well before this happened. 10 years ago they were losing money. For every small car they were makinig they losing around 8000$. The only thing saving them was their SUV and they barely broke even. The big 3 were laghing at Honda for not having a V8 engine. Who's laughing now. While the big three were coming out with new Hemi's and LS's and such, Toyota was coming out with the Prius. They themselves in this trouble they can dig themselves out. Their ego is too big, they don't what start from the bottom again, so they cry to the gouverments. Every good thing as an end and this is it for them. People will loose their job, it's only the return of the pendullum. Though it out for a few years it'll be fine. Look at the job listings, there's thousands of jobs out there. Ontario has that great new program to learn a new trade, take advantage of it. So won't be able to afford a third car and a boat with a cottage, well I'm sure people can live without all that for a bit.


70 years old and still working
said

I haven't heard one report of the workers for the BIG 3 offering to take a cut in pay to help themselves. If they don't, why do they think anybody would approve our governments donating help to them?


KMA
said

AndyL: Let me get this straight ... you want Iran & the Arabs to save us from ourselves? The Iranians were a nation facing daily threat of annihilation from USA & Israel, why should they care how much we're paying for oil & gas?

In addition to supply, the price of oil is set by market demand which is driven by speculators who were from every corner of the globe not to mention investors, demanding huge returns on their shares.

OPEC is made up of greedy businessmen, just like the greedy white guys in charge of the American mortgage and banking collapse and the greedy white guys running the Big 3 and the corrupt war criminal politicians on both sides of the border who are 99% greedy white guys.

None of them are Arabs and save your propaganda about 'economic terrorism' for the Synogogue, the evidence demonstrates that the White West is the biggest terrorist of every kind in the world.

"...good world citizen" ... what transparent, laughable rubbish. Like the USA & Israel?


Steve - Montreal
said

The automobile is a nice to have item not a must have. Why should we bail out the car dealers for selling luxuries.


Dave in Newington
said

All this very extensive hype about the failing big three auto giants is also having a major impact on sales....
If I was in the market for a new vehicle in the next couple of month I am faced with two problems....

1. Do I purchase a new Big Three vehicle to support the local economy and take a more than slight chance that vehicle will end up as a "last off the Line" with no parts or warrenty due to the company going out of business

2. Buy an import with a far more stable company backing it and the reassurance I can get parts and service for the five or six years I own the car

Doesn't take much thought !


K
said

Canada can't save the US auto industry so I am not sure why they are complaining here. They need the huge $25 billion US bail not the $XXX million Canadian bail out. If the US says NO there is nothing Canada can or will do to save these companies.


Gord
said

Washington politicians told the three Big 3 execs who showed up for a bailout hearing without prior consultation among themselves and without an explanation of how much they needed and without a business bailout plan together with a restructuring and sustainability proposal and without a UAW exec in tow ready to sign off on any restructuring and sustainability proposal. These guys not only had no prior consultation but even arrived on seperate private jets and flew home to Detroit on their seperate private jets.
Their answer was predicable. Show us a plan for restructuring and sustainability and we'll show you the money.

Bottom line: Any bailout proposal will require U.S. taxpayers money be spend on U.S operations, excluding all foreign operations, Canada included. To allow otherwise would lead to U.S. taxpayer outrage. That's to be expected and so we should prepare ourselves.
I don't want my Canadian taxes paid into failed Canadian operations either without a reorganization, consolidation and a business plan for the future that also contains sustainability with the co operation of all stakeholders, CAW included.
Since the new CAW president has already said he won't play ball then all we can do is avoid being junkies for lost causes and say Adious Oshawa, Oakville, Windsor and hello to the sweet smell of successful Honda and Toyota operations in Alliston and Woodstock. If any of my tax money is to be spent, the CEO's of Toyota and Honda have proved to be good corporate citizens and deserve any help we can give them. Honda and Toyota's time in Canada has been well spent building good stainable businesses building good quality products people will buy while generating good spinoff jobs and businesses and tax revenue for their respective communities. They're to be applauded.
ps I drive a a Ford product a Volvo


Bob McGrath
said

Let the Market dictate. None of MY Tax Money, Please!!!


gord
said

Don't you dare give one penny to those liars and thieves that call themselves auto dealers not one penny.


Allan
said

Who is this going to benefit? The car salesman, the car mechanic, the receptionist. I doubt it. It will benefit the dealership owners. Why do we need hundreds of dealerships in close proximity to one another. There is little or no competition anyway. Sell cars that people and afford to buy, and afford to maintain and you would have no problem selling cars. There are the few that will buy 40, 50, 60 thousand dollar cars but most people want reliable 10 to 20 thousand dollar cars they can afford.

DON'T DO IT.


Rob
said

When our dollar rose over the US dollar...it took months for the "Big 3" to offer any incentives....and then only on select models!! So at that time they were raking in about 30% more, per car, and keeping all the profits! That was huge money...and in my eyes ripping off the Canadian public! Now...after they see the American banks get a huge freebie....They have their greesey hand out!!
Fudge them!!
Another well run company will fill the void, the local dealerships can sell other brands of cars! Do not give them a cent of my tax money!


Tony
said

A note to "Ester from Oshawa"

You wrote "We should be standing up for our industry instead of trying to sabotage it"

Canada has no automobile manufacturer of her own. Both GM, Ford and Chrysler are foreign owned companies.


Dave
said

What a bunch of whiners. The Unions and Big Auto companies have no one to blame but themselves for what has transpired. Big salaries for employees who don't have an education, poor future planning by the Auto industry and now they want taxpayers money. What a bunch of bull. How about the small businesses? They deserve more help than these morons.


Concerned
said

Ford already got a huge bailout from the Ontario provincial government just a few years back. They ask for money when the economy is good. They ask for money when the economy is bad. They aren't making it - period. The government better ask for that money back asap before they go bankrupt and not even consider throwing more of our at this mess...


kate
said

When towns were built around mines and the mines went bust - no one bailed them out. A resolution was passed not to allow development around one industry - it's not sustainable. I'm sorry but my tax dollars are NOT going towards helping a bunch of high school drop outs who were too stupid and lazy to get a decent education and now make more money than I do and enjoy benefits and a pension that I never will. I have no problem helping the real poor and the homeless but not the auto industry. I was downsized several years ago during the dot com bust - no one bailed me out. Today I work for less money but at least I work for it - I didnt' ask other tax payers to pay my way. If towns go under, go where the jobs are. People in the Atlantic provinces have been doing it for decades - no one bailed them out.


Hugh Nugent
said

The issue is not the amount of bailout money and when it would be available, the issue is it's time for the auto industry as a whole (manufacturers, suppliers, dealers, and unions) to perform an in-depth, honest self examination and then present a reasonable and obtainable business model.

This will require the cliched term "out of the box thinking" as the old ways do not work.




Graham
said

A large Chinese business newspaper is reporting that domestic car giants SAIC and Dongfeng are intending to buy GMC and Chrysler; sounds like a plan to me. Perhaps they'll make better vehicles as it would be hard to build worse ones than the junk that is on offer now, because for every car that is on offer from the big three a better option is offered by the offshore marques. The game is over as
North American car companies have seriously lost the plot and are a million miles from deserving of a bailout.
Politicians should know that we will hold those that approve this fully responsible and it won't be pretty.


Jason Shayne
said

I would rather see a make work project in the terms of adding important infrastructure than a bail out of something that will eventually fail anyway. How about using the 25 billion dollars to make a high speed train between Montreal and Toronto, or perhaps Calgary and Ft. Mcmurray. I am sure that these auto workers being engineers, tradesmen, support staff ect, could be utilized to design and build a rail system or something to that effect. These plants could be converted, and jobs created.

With the price of oil down and fluctuations in the market, the oil patch is beggining to experience a downturn, projects cancelled, construction delayed, perhaps Oil and Gas should be begging for a handout as well.

Let them fail, the Japenese and Eurpoeans will fill the demand for the cars that will no longer be made by the big three, they will build the majority of the cars here anyway, so all these auto workers can just go work there.


Ki-Som Victoria BC
said

No bail out!!! Thanks to Mr. Harper's government, Canada has no money and the country is now going into the red. The car companies will survive, even if they do go into bankrupcy. NO BAIL OUT!!!!


67
said

When the Cdn dollar was above the us dollar local dealers wouldn't give us a break on new vehicle purchase. Unfortunately "what goes arround comes arround". No break for the BIG 3.


Michael (Ottawa)
said

Sid, you are ban on!

They do indeed need help. Firstly they need to restructure and refocus. "IF" we are to believe Rick Wagoner the other day that is all in place and the process has already begun but they got caught with their pants down by the sudden reversal of fortunes associates with the sudden fuel prices.

He wants to push the Volt which is fine. Congress needs to get more concessions out of Wagoner. I don't trust him. Ford seem to be dong some good things and they too got caught. Anyone who has followed these turkeys know that they were greedy and have been caught due to their own greed. Having said that the price we all pay to see these jerks fail is just too steep without longer lead time for all of us to make changes to withstand a sudden loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs. It would be EXTREMELY difficult on all of us and we wouldn't likely recover for an entire generation. Thats too steep a price to pay in my view. Although they deserve to go down... they REALLY deserve it. I recall in the 1960's seeing my first Toyota Corolla in TMR, QC. Everybody laughed and scoffed. Those same people are driving Honda's, Camry's today. In the interim what has Detroit done? Oh a little here and there but they refused to embrace change preferring their old model of screwing the customer with built in planned obsolescence.

Don't get me started! I drive a Honda and am not interested in going back until they make a good vehicle which feels as good as a Honda and is built as good. When that day comes I'll be the first to return if its priced right also.



Simon Shaw
said

I think we should lend them the money for controlling ownership in all three Canadian auto makers. NO FREE MONEY.


B. Kelley, Ontario
said

So they want the average person who makes $30 per hour in wages and benefits to bail out those earning a bloated $74 per hour? And, I must add, that wage and benefit cost is by no means the whole story. The CAW has managed to tie up car factory operations in so many featherbedding work rules that the Detroit 3 productivity is only about 70% of what has been accomplished by Toyota, Honda, etc. When the CAW shows some leadership and demonstrates genuine concern for those outside their cozy little club then I might support some financial assistance for the industry that employs them. Everyone knows that won't happen so we might be better served in the long run to let the sick old dogs die. It wouldn't be very long before their healthy competitors expand to meet the new demand and the lost jobs are replaced with solid non-union ones. In the meantime, maybe the mayors of the concerned cities can actually learn to manage with less, just like everyone else.


Just sink into the abyss
said

Why won't they just die! Kill them off, these poor pathetic excuses of a company hasn't made a product that anybody wants for years. That's why they are failing. Everything they make are pieces of junk. I just wish I could pul the plug on them myself and listen to the sound of the beep......beep....beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


kevin
said

maybe all the automotive dealers and makers should give there heads a shake and look at the value of their vehicles. Over priced and plastic crap. Its funny how they make them cheaper but charge alot more. Maybe if they weren't out to make tens of thousands per vehicle people would actually buy them. And to bail them out after they brag how much they earned in previous years. Let them suffer and open their eyes to the real world


CANNOT LET THEM FAIL ATTITUDE
said

It is still there, believe it or not. That attitude that the government CAN NOT let the Auto Industry fail. The CAW has been drumming that into the minds of their members AND the public for decades and yes the government has caved every time. The CAW WILL NEVER compromise strictly because of their belief in this fact and no matter what we say or do they will take that belief to their graves. Well I think it is time that the Government stood up to this mindless attitude and let them fail, period, because they will never fix their problems with the attitude they have now. They are the highest paid auto workers in the world producing some of the highest priced undesireable cars in the world and NOBODY can figure out why they are failing............. Give me a break.


Terry
said

Chrysler did away with the "Plymouth" line. It was in my opinion a working man's car. Affordable and fairly reliable. Now it costs the consumer more for an equivalent. My answer is NO BAILOUTS!


James
said

Not one red cent until all dealers and the companies open their books!


korie in bc
said

this is capitalism! either sink or swim and for way too long the government has been bailing out companies that run for profit with taxpayers funds. when will this stop? if i can't make my business a go, it fails and there is no one to bail me out! i can not get EI because i am self employed. why does our government feel that some companies deserve kickbacks whilst other fail...hummmm...i guess at this point i can only ponder that question to the 60% of canadians who bothered to vote this year!


justin
said

I am SO tired of hearing how the rich need help. First, the big financial institutions, then the big 3 domestic automobile manufacturers, and now the car dealers are chyming in? The reason we are in this mess is that those with the resources became too greedy, and got themselves in trouble. Financial institutions approved loans that had no right to be approved, so that they could turn over on the housing market, screw the average joe, and make their millions. The automobile industry has notoriously side-stepped continuous improvement and fossil-fuel-alternative technologies so that they could get their millions. And car dealers... let's not even go there. Now they want to say, "help us or cause Canadians financial hardships". Financial hardships are upon us; I say screw the big companies with their big wallets; I mean, do they actually think they're providing us a societal benefit by their 'allowing us' to work for them, all so that their wallets can individually become fatter? "Help us so that we can SCREW... I mean help you". I get that, if the automobile industry goes under, many people will lose their jobs, but, seriously, how can the big three big whigs fly into Washington in their private jets, put themselves up in the most expensive hotels, treat themselves to the most expensive delicacies, and have the audacity to ask for billions in taxpayers money. It's not, after all, so that they can do business: it's so that they, personally, do not lose money in their dealings. Social responsibility what? Ghandi once said, "The rich must live simply so that the poor may simply live".


BB in B.C.
said

As a retired car dealer I can say that there are probably more dealers one step away from going under than there are "Fat Cats" looking for an easy buck handout. The public has some terrible misconceptions about car dealers. I remember selling $30,000 cars to make $500 and that included all rebates. The customer still believed I was making $5000 profit. Nobody needs to get ripped off when the internet can price and cost any car for you. I ran a small import dealership with an overhead of $20,000 per month and after sending 7% to the provincial government and 7% to the federal government I would be lucky if there was 0.5% for me. When I ran red ink it wasn't the end of the world but in a dealership with an overhead of $100,000 per month the bank would pull your line of credit in a heartbeat if you had a few bad months. The bank has a buy back agreement with the factory for the dealer's new cars and everything else the dealer owns for open lines of credit. Large Big 3 dealers have huge investments in their dealerships and it would all go down the tube if the factory shut down. I'm against bailouts but I'll buy a GM to help them out and I'm sure the product will be just fine.


JJR
said

Message to Rob who ownes a Volkswwagon and would never own a North American piece of junk. Bite on this:
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm


Car Guy
said

Here is a fact- The total bailout funds spent to date is 4.25 TRILLION dollars when you include everything ie Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae AIG etc etc etc. (Look it up)
So that is 4,225 BILLION dollars. The Auto Makers are asking for $25 billion. So the question is 4,225 BILLION or $4,250 Billion. Who gives a crap about a measely $25 BIL???? At this point, it is miniscule in the big picture.
Let them fail and it will cost the economy a trillion for real. But then again - whats another TRIL? I for one would like to see the President riding around in a bullet proof Landrover - how embarassing would that be??


Toyota for Life
said

I worked in the forestry industry, the second largest employer, behind the auto sector, yet when our plant closed down nobody in government cared. What was good for us is good for the auto industry. Sorry to offend anyone but GM and Ford are junk. My Toyota I bought new has 340,000 kms on it. So far I have changed a battery, timing belt, brakes, wipers, and tires (a few times). There is not enough room here to list the parts I changed on my previous GM and Ford trucks. Junk does not even describe them. Why can Toyota put brakes on their vehicles that last longer than Ford or GM transmissions. Poorly managed, poor quality. I do not want my tax dollars helping them out. Until they build a vehicle that can goes above 250,000 kms without more than oil changes for service, I will never buy any of their crud again.


Doesn't matter how you look at it.
said

One way or another, it will still cost Government - us- taxpayer money!

If we don't bail them out, the number of unemployment will go up, those U.I. cheques are still coming out from us - the hard working, honest, middle class taxpayer!

We don't really have a choice but to bail them out BUT MAKE IT THE LAST AND FINAL TIME!

Let the Government take over the WHOLE Auto Industry completely. Get rid all those useless CEO and union. Let start it all fresh!

Also stop or reduce the numbers of import cars. We are suppose to SUPPORT CANADA MADE PRODUCT - BUT IF THEY MADE A PRODUCT THAT WE WANT AND NEED! To do this, Government has to act more actively and supervise them!


Can't just loan the money out to them without PUTTING ANY SUBJECT TO. THAT WOULD BE "STUPID". JUST TREAT THEM LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN MAY HELP!

Name the new company "CANADIAN MOTOR". No more "General Motor". Make it DISAPPEAR once and for all!

If they can make a proudct almost as good as import car, there will be no need to import any cars overseas or have their plant in our land and steal our customer!
General Motor has to smarten up and smell the coffee!

Also we should upgrade the "Free Trade Agreement" - giving us more freedom to EXPORT PRODUCTS overseas and increase our surplus!

There are so much we can do and need to be done starting now. Car business is just the beginning of this AND HAS BE A build up problem for years!

Next will the housing industries trying to get in line to do their TURN of CRYING!

Harper is NOT doing much to CHANGE thing around! Wish we could have Mr. Obama as our Prime Minister instead!




Brian Dyer
said

horses for sale, yes I said horses for sale. That is what you better be looking at if the domestic auto makers go down. Put a stop to the foreign imports and support the north american market.


Small business owner, you voted Conservative
said

you know you did.

Now pay for it.




PVT
said

Here's a novel idea for the not-so-big three: BUILD CARS PEOPLE WANT FOR A PRICE THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY! Don't think for a second that anyone is willing to pay as much for one of your vehicles as they are willing to pay for a Honda or Toyota. Wake up!


james
said

Its insanity to bailout an industry that has been dying for years. North American cars aren't worth half the price they charge and to argue saving jobs as the rationale is absurd. The North American automotive industry will go the same way as the British automotive industry.

We all want a healthier environment. Now is the time for the government to step up to the plate and begin nationwide construction of urban and inter-city high speed rail service to get cars off the road. To subsidize these workers by converting automotive plants into factories for electric commuter and inter-city trains makes more sense.

Bailing out the automotive industry is like trying to save a dinosaur. Think to the future and not reinvent the past.



Professor M.
said

There is going to be a net transfer of capital from the West to the East over the next few decades because globalization will allow for jobs to go where the labour costs are lowest.

Blame unions if you like, but the fact is that all North Americans have enjoyed a high standard of living for years based on technological advantage, high levels of education and plentiful resources. Unions simply ensured that workers shared in that bonanza. But we have lost that edge, and now all wages will move towards global averages, including non-union employees.You can thank unions for keeping wages as high as they have been for years.

But union wages are not the real cause of this auto production meltdown. The car companies are in trouble because Korean and Japanese automakers were able to utilize high technology and low labour costs to produce cheaper and ultimately better-made cars. The biggest problem for the last 10 years has been that Honda and Toyota made better cars at competitive prices, so they got more and more of the market. That's because the U.S. automakers refused to change their designs to make them more fuel efficient and reliable.

And now people want to blame the workers for the meltdown? Think it through.


Rosie
said

There will be no bailout.To choose one specific industry from all the others will lead to everyones hand out.Cant do it.If north americans need 10 million new cars produced every year,my guess is someone will make them and make them here.Toyota,Honda,Nissan etc.They will build more factories and hire people.lots of fear mongering here,don't believe the sky is falling,its just changing colour.


Cambob
said

Let's say GM goes into bankruptcy:
100,000 unionized people negotiate a realistic contact or they are are fired.
20,000 management people take dramatic salary cuts or they are fired.
The extra 1,000,000 people who feed off of GM subsidiaries trim thier wages or they are fired.

Hmmm.. every step of the way, there are TWO options. No need to waste my taxes on this problem.


John31, Edmonton
said

The cold, hard truth is that North American automakers have been the creators of their own demise. For years, they've been exploiting the brand names of vehicles that were high-quality, reliable vehicles with lasting value. This is no longer the case. What is produced now is the product of long-term quality reduction in the name of profit. The sagging sales are the result; imports from Japan and Europe are now competitively priced and offer consistently superior quality. You'd be crazy to by a new Jeep, and everyone knows it.

Frankly, Ontario is going to end up being the next newfoundland. Their main industry is finished. Time to move on... Wasting tax dollars on a doomed industry isn't going to solve any problems.


James -Eh!
said

Question for our media concerning this issue.

It has been reported that Honda is idling a factory in the Uk for a month, no doubt for "inventory adjustment:, and Toyota is laying off workers in Japan.

Are they running to the respective governments for bailouts, or are they getting on with the job of reducing production?

Secondly do the big 3 and auto dealers want a bailout so that they will survive with lots full of vehicles that noone will buy?



Larry NL
said

Another case of poor planning. As I drive pass the dealerships and see numerous big trucks and cars sitting on their lots I can't help wondering why they would stock so many large vehicles when it is quite evident that people don't want them because of gasoline prices.
With the average house hold debt of $80,000, why would anyone want to go into more debt by purchasing a 30 to 50 thousand dollar vehicle.
Just doesn't make much economical sense.
But this is what the NDP and the Liberals are suggesting people do to keep the CAW worker working.
Put people into more debt when budgets are stretched to the limit as it is.
As far as the CADA is concerned, they are just glorified car dealers trying to sell the unwanted stock that they have in their inventory.



hindsight
said

During that last recession Windsor was talking about diversifying their industry. What did they do? Nothing

Market Watch had already posted back in September that the industry was getting a $25 billion dollar loan...because of "poor executive leadership over the last two decades" as causing this problem that couldn't withstand an economic downturn.

Was this $25 billion figured into the Big 3's restructuring plan they brought to Washington with them? Why is it being reported that they are getting it now? Why isn't $25 billion not enough?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/us-house-approves-25-billion/story.aspx?guid={903404D5-A88C-4E2E-B716-88431801304C}&dist=hppr



lakeside
said

Tie bailout money to hourly and salaried wage decreases. Then we'll see how bad they really need help!


Stevo
said

Whether it's union bashing or executive bashing all I hear is absolute hatred in people's messages. I feel sorry for people who want others to suffer so much.

Canada the caring, Canada the good, Canada the shining light of compasion in a nasty world. Sure sounds like it in these messages. Where does the desire
to see others people's lives go down the crapper come from? I'm just glad I'm in a recession proof job with union backing because these bitter people would probably want me dead.


CD
said

Bailout the car dealerships?

Whats next, bailout the 7-11 store?

Don't give them a dime.It is obvious there are way too many car dealerships, they are on every corner. Besides they have something to look forward to, when all the weak dealerships are belly up the ones that are left will get more business. Survival of the fitest.


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