Detroit Three plead for money, but is anyone listening?

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Detroit Three plead for money, but is anyone listening?

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CTV News Video

CTV News: John Vennavally-Rao with details

CTV Toronto: Correspondents on the request for aid and how likely it is to come in the next months

CTV Newsnet: Ken Lewenza, CAW president on the ripple effect a bankruptcy would have on the economy

CTV Newsnet: Former Canadian Auto Workers president Buzz Hargrove on what he would have done differently

CTV Newsnet: BNN's Howard Green on what the 'Big Three' CEOs are asking for

CTV Toronto: Paul Bliss on McGuinty's remarks on keeping automakers afloat

Canada AM: Mark Nantais, Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association

Watch: See all Videos in the Player

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Tue. Nov. 18 2008 10:37 PM ET

The top executives from General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler appeared before the U.S. Congress on Tuesday, defending their companies from critics and asking for a share of the federal bailout money. But politicians appeared reluctant to help.

Democrats are proposing to devote US$25 billion of the $700-billion bailout package to the struggling Detroit Three, but on Tuesday, senators seemed less than convinced it was deserved.

"We have little evidence that $25 billion will do anything to promote long-term success," said Republican Sen. Michael Enzi.

The executives, including the chief officer for General Motors, Rick Wagoner, told Congress that their current financial problems were not self-inflicted, as critics have said, but rather mainly tied to the credit crisis.

They also warned that if the automakers fail, it will have a devastating impact on the overall American economy.

North of the border, the head of the Canadian Auto Workers said it would also devastate Canada.

CAW President Ken Lewenza said the failure of even one of those companies would be a "devastating blow to the economy, a devastating blow to consumers out there and quite frankly devastating to our members."

Ontario, especially, would suffer, he told CTV Newsnet.

"It's not even imaginable what would happen in communities like Oshawa, Windsor, St. Catharines, Oakville. These communities are dominated by the auto industry."

Lewenza said the union has done its part to respond to the Detroit Three's shrinking market share, giving up hundreds of millions of dollars in concessions in collective bargaining.

However, Lewenza didn't blame management either, saying "nobody anticipated at the beginning of this business year we would be selling 12 to 13 million vehicles in the United States, when most people were anticipating 16 or 17."

Representatives from Ottawa and Ontario will also take part this week in discussions in Washington about the future of the industry, which is estimated to employ between 400,000 and 500,000 Canadians.

Bailout details

A copy of the legislation proposed to U.S. Congress, obtained by The Associated Press, suggests the bailout would deny bonuses to executives earning over US$250,000, and would require the automakers to show plans for their "long-term financial viability."

Mark Nantais, of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers' Association, said it's not enough for Canada to respond to steps the U.S. takes. Rather, the two industries must act as one.

"We've been an integrated industry since 1965," Nantais told CTV's Canada AM.

"We established the Auto Pact as an integrated industry, we went to the NAFTA table as an integrated industry, we've worked on customs security programs since 9-11 as an integrated industry. So it makes absolute sense to do it lockstep with the United States."

Nantais said he welcomes the fact that Canada has sent representatives to Washington to look into what can be done to help the auto sector.

Industry Minister Tony Clement and Ontario's Economic Development Minister Michael Bryant are heading to the U.S. Capitol this week on a so-called fact-finding mission.

While some argue that a bailout from Ottawa would be akin to rewarding bad management, Nantais said so much of Canada's economy relies on the industry that it would be devastating to let the Detroit Three fail.

He said as much as 12 per cent of Canada's manufacturing GDP comes from the auto industry, which employs roughly 500,000 workers, directly or indirectly, across the country.

"Clearly every one should be very concerned -- since the auto industry is a cornerstone of our economy -- about its long term viability here."

However, with the right help, the industry will recover, he said.

"This is something we're looking for in a temporary period of time to get us through this period, to complete our transition plans and put in place the necessary new technologies and new environmentally friendly and fuel efficient vehicles going forward," Nantais said.

Comments are now closed for this story

Scott from Halifax
said

Beg all you want. The public has been begging for a different fuel source like the EV1 (remember that one), but instead got more gas guzzling vehicles like the Hummer. I hope the big three learn a lesson here and don't get a dime from the governments.

CD
said

Why not start with the unions accepting a huge pay cut. They strike when times are good to get a piece of the profit, then when things go sour they they take no concessions. PAY CUT!

bl
said

Who the heck makes $250,000 a year? and why

Margaret from Winnipeg
said

What did the auto makers do with the billions of dollars they have made over the last several years. Maybe the owners and shareholders should be doing the baling out and not the taxpayers.

KC
said

There's a far easier way for the Big 3 to obtain additional funds. Lower the humongous salaries that the executives are making!

JRC
said

Automotive has been in trouble for some time, employment is not sustainable and continued aid undermines the economy. Why not ask the executives to take a little less, ask for concessions from workers and realizations that everyone is in the same boat. It's not only autotmotive, travel industries, retail, government, we all need to recognize the current world finanical crisis.

russel
said

No money for you!!!! Where did all those years of profit go. Maybe you should have been saving some for the rough years like the rest of us do.

mario in london
said

Yes these are good paying jobs that help the economy but if they are subsidized by taxpayers then that mitigates the salary advantages. Also, taxpayers are also hit as the product manufactured from these jobs are not environmentally friendly. Therefore, we are subsidizing work that produces a product that costs us money in environmental cleanup down the line. In all that is not worth it for the economy and our tax dollars.

GARY GRAHAM
said

MAYBE ONE OF THE BIG THREE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO GO BANKRUPT AND IN BANKRUPTCY RESTRUCTURE, WHILE CONTINING OPERATIONS, AS MANAGEMENT SHARES THE BLAME FOR LACK OF INVOVATION BUT I DARE SAY THAT FOREIGN MAKERS SHOULD ALSO PLAY BY THE SAME RULES
ALSO UNINS ARE GOING HAVE PLAY BALL HERE TOO

Ry
said

It seems appropriate that we let the end of an era in automotive history come to a close. I think the Detroit Three have had their fair share of government subsidy's across North America and have squandered it over the last 50 years. I think totalled, some estimates put all backed loans and government subsidy's in that timeframe at close to $1 trillion dollars.

It's time to move on, even if that means that many may or will lose their jobs as a result. It's not the government's fault, its the executives of those companies who are at fault.

Lindsay
said

We have no choice.
Without the North American Auto industry we are in very serious trouble, more than we are facing now.
However sanctions should be in place and a firm understanding that this is not....a bailout.
Here's to all my friends and family members who refused to buy North American over the last 10 to 15 years....look what you have done!

BM
said

One of the conditions of the bailout should be that the wages are brought in line with what the rest of the average joes.

Mandosa in Sarnia, Ontario
said

The big three begging for tax dollars! I never would have believed I would see this day.
Don't give them a cent! This is business. Let them restructure, amalgamate, fold, whatever... Life will go on.
Or maybe we should continue our steady march towards socialism. Its worked so well every where else its been tried.

R. Brophy
said

From the CEO's to the lines salaries should be lowered. Ask the CEO's what their bonus was over the last few years. Why do they have to make so many different kinds of cars? Come on, get the cost of your vehicles down so people can afford them. Dig yourself out, why should we do it for you?

boy-yoy-yoing
said

Lending them more cash is not going to change anything. The big 3 and the CAW are far too self absorbed and can't change. How do you think they got into this situation in the 1st place?
We have to let them sink or swim on thier own - give a man a fish and feed him for a day, TEACH him to fish and feed hime for a lifetime...just don't take all the fish...

MHB
said

I wonder why the auto industry have to be bailed out!. ALL industries are feeling the impact of the economic crisis. Taxpaers money were not meant to help incompetent CEOs keep their seats. If this is done, no one should continue to give us the nonesense about the "free" economy because this intended aid would happen only in socialist countries!.

robert
said

the Big three should recieve some sort of assistance,but not just a pile of cash.They should look at takeing the unions and management to a meeting and seriously look at shutting the gravey train down,and look at pay cuts and pay outs for exec's. If they go under it is quite likely going to affect alot of people and that doesn't just include the employee's of the big three, but all spin off jobs and local buisness in each affected community.I would rather see monies go to them if they renegociate union contracts that reflect a sustanable business and a fair deal to employee.s as lower pay will in the end be better than if the jobs dissappear for good.But if no one wants to re think there positons than they aren't thinking rationaly and then let them fold.And that would be a tragick out come for everyone.

Joe Pistone in woodbridge.
said

A nation of immigrants that had no obligation to buy domestic,there was no feeling of supporting ones own.The fact is the big three build better more substantial safer cars.The imports did a better job of creating a stampede away from domestics.

John in Mtl.
said

Any government aid to these companies should be tied to a complete re-tooling in order to produce zero-emission vehicles. The public is years ahead of the carmakers on this one. Let's encourage them to build something new and while we're at it, break our dependence on oil once and for all.

Mark M
said

I understand why it's important to keep these companies going, they are responsible for a lot of indirect jobs for everyone, but before one cent of taxpayer money goes into this mess the unions have to concede to MAJOR roll backs to bring them in line with other manufacturing jobs. That goes for the executives too.

Steve - Montreal
said

Don't feed them anymore cash!!! It's like putting a bandaid on an terminal wound. Let them go belly up and file chapter 11. It's the only way they can get rid of the union and start fresh with a normal workforce.

Bonnie
said

I think it's time for the auto industry to go bankrupt because they are.
Then when that happens, they can be re-structured to make a 'greener' auto with a work force that costs us less.
And it would also be a good time to stop making so many useless models year after year.
The government can stop handing out my tax dollars to this industry when they don't change their ways.
No more high pay and benefits.
The union won't give any concessions so it's time to cut our losses with them.
The unions ruined England and Canada didn't learn from that. It's time folks.

Dennis
said

I think they should get their loan with a whole lot of if's regarding restructuring. Cut the number of models in half, put plymoth and dodge, ford and mercury, pontiac and chev, buick and cadillac together, eliminate 50% of the white collar staff with no cushy payouts, cut the employee benifit bonus's to just about zero, tell these countries that import autos freely in to the U.S. and Canada with no restrictions that North American auto makers want the same or no more imports, etc

island girl
said

It's interesting that a country that thinks universal health care is 'socialist' would have governemnt invest in companies and have part ownership of them (a 'stake'). Isn't that a little 'socialistic'?

Jack R.
said

I hope they don't. If America (and Canada) really is a democracy, then it's sink or swim baby. IF your product is so shoddy, over priced and no one wants it. You go out of business. Big or small. The big three have known for the past 8 years this was coming and still sold vehicles that guzzled gas and were badly made. Sucks to be greedy, but why should tax payers bail out billionaires when we common slobs are barely keeping our heads above water now?

4sight
said

I recognized the need for change years ago with downsizing the style of
vehicles we drove and increased our $$$ savings with this approach.
How can these Big3 companies
not foresee what I saw.
I have no sympathies for their greedy approach to the
What Everything Mentality.

Larry NL
said

I can't afford to buy an auto from the big 3 because the unions have priced their product out of my range. So why should my tax dollars go to support them. The CAW and UAW caused the prices to go up.
I worked in a unionized plant for thirty years and our plant had to take a reduction in price of it's product so they could enter a low bid. As a result, my wages didn't go up at the same pace as those working for the big 3 and the cost of the cars passed my affordability. The greed of unions and the corporate management have brought this upon themselves.
Put any loan (not a freebie) to the auto makers at 10% interest and payed back within 5 years. If they haven't done a turnaround in 5 years, they never will and the government should seize all assets and sell it for scrap.
We need an alternative to the family sedan. It can be accomplished if people think in terms of evolution of the automobile instead of how much money can we get. That will come later. Please don't waste my tax dollars on a dead horse.

Marie Ottawa
said

you know all I keep hearing is how the sky will fall if the big three go under - when American motors went under the sky did not fall. I do not hear noises about the big three talking about amalgamating. Maybe these days there is not a big enough market for fuel guzzling SUVs and trucks, which those companies specialize in, to justify three huge corps that make those kinds of vehicles. One reason they are so expensive is the huge salaries the workers get, the japanese saw the way of the wind long ago. They went for quality and lower wages, and look where it got them, employed. I would agree the govt should bail them out if the workers agreed to a wage cut, and stop the massive bonuses to execs, they just arent warranted these days. All they seem to want is the money to do what they want with it and I dont think that is acceptable, sorry I just dont. The times they are a changing.

andrew
said

This exposes the true flaws of public vs private business. Public companies need to focus on the today in order to pay dividends to their shareholders,no future strategy allowed because it would not allow them to pay dividends. while private companies can focus on the future with out the pressure of paying dividends today.

Peter in Ottawa
said

Why are the automakers approaching governments when the Auto Worker Unions command salaries 50% higher than those paid by Japanese competitors?

Get the Unions to offer pay cuts of 40%, THEN approach the government.

Nick in Gatineau
said

When you allow a union to dictate what type of vehicle you can build, how much you will sell it for and to whom you will sell it, you embark on the road to your economic grave.

Because of Unions, we pay, on average, 50 to 70 % more than the actual value of the car. Its a wakeup call folks. The CAW has noticed it as well - 20 years too late.

If I make a mistake in my product or my marketing, the government doesn't bail me out with a subsidy. So why a bailout ? Jobs.

They don't want so many people to lose their jobs: well over 1 Million in North-America.

World leaders keep telling us that the market will regulate itself

Let them go bankrupt, be bought out by competitors - free market remember ?

The market is saying something, maybe listening should be part of the auto makers vocabulary.

Roger T
said

No bailout. These auto companies have already taken consumers for a ride during the good economic times by charging every little add ons. It's time for ALL CONSUMERS to unite and STOP BUYING OVER PRICED PRODUCTS FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING IT.

Price cut or not, no big item purchase for me as the gas price drops are only a temporary solutions to bring back consumer confidence. It's just a band aid to stimulate car sales until the economy is back on track and than the higher prices start again!

THIS CHRISTMAS EAT TO LIVE, NOT GIFT TO LIVE!

Peter in Speers, Sk.
said

...I'd like to know how the other auto makers are doing - and say why should taxpayers who have been buying Toyotas or Hondas instead of Fords or GMs, put money into them now? ...

George
said

Ever hear of a company called FuelVapor Technologies? I found a picture of their Ale (pronounced allay) car right here on CTV and it reportedly gets 92 mpg and can get to speed in a matter of seconds. It's a Canadian company and one would think should get a big slice of any R&D funding by the government. Check it out; a little different but seems to fit the bill. Might even be better than one of those Big 3 vehicles?

Jay, Ottawa
said

This is sounding like some kind of work-fare program doesn't it? The government funding people to work? More corporate welfare. . .

If these companies go out of business someone else will come up the middle offering a better product and fill the void in the marketplace.

Looking out the window at Ottawa traffic I see one or two vehicles from North America-based automakers. The competition built a better mousetrap. We're never going to get next generation cars if we shovel our money into yesterday's thinking and yesterday's technology. Everything changes, nothing lasts forever and the Big Three are not exempt from that.

james
said

So much for a capitalist, free market economy. Bailing out banks, financial institutions, and now automakers is no different than a Soviet style economy.

The American automakers are no different than any other American corporation. High price, low quality, bent on greed and profit. They are not deserving of being in the same market as the Japanese or Europeans. All three already get billions in US (and Canadian) defence contracts but still can't make a go at it.

Let them go under and legitimate auto manufacturers take their place and provide us the consumer high quality, reasonably priced products.

Delbert in Steinbach
said

If we live in a free market, then let the market decide who survives. Why should Canadian tax payers bail out US automakers? After all, are the big 3 not Companies from another country? Not our fault that Canadians are working for Americans.

LP Markham
said

Any bailout, if done in the first place, should come with an automatic 20% salary reduction across the board and cancelation of all percs and bonuses.
Not that any of the deserve that much.

Sask Man
said

I would be in support of a bailout for the big three if I knew that this isn't just a band aid. There has to be a sustainable plan in place.

In order for long term viability everything must be on the table. Including all union deals.

Buzz doesn't look so smart now.

George
said

Saw an ad for trucks last night. I am sure some of you have seen it where three or is it four big engined pick-up trucks race over tires, through flaming buildings and at the end the big tough male drivers slap each other on the back. Neat ad, must have cost a fortune but alas the one Big 3 company still hasn't got it. People are not in the buying mood for gas eating, huge engined pick-up trucks. Remember when a pick-up truck was something one saw in the country hauling produce or a trailer filled with a couple of cows? Remember those days? Well that is what a pick-up truck is for. It's not a luxury sedan capable of going a light speed velocities. Although I suppose the fans of truck racing would beg to differ. Big 3 get it though your thick skulls; keep the ads going and you will not get or deserve a penny.

No More Bail Outs PLEASE!
said

Too darn bad for the auto industry in Canada and the US! Put them into Chapter 11 and let the trustees figure it out! By pouring in billions, we are artificially propping up companies that have "run their course" and are now ineffective when it comes to the realities of the auto industry. By giving them billions, thet will be allowed to pump out the same garbage and not feel motivated to change with the times. GM and Ford both have enough viable products that will survive even after Chapter 11 Protection!!!
DON"T GIVE THEM ANY MORE OF MY (AND YOUR) MONEY!!!!!!!

Mike Macdonald - Winnpeg
said

For the longest time the domestic auto companies forced crap down our throats until the Japanese made them wake up. Then they pumped out whatever would cause the cash register to ring the loudest, perferring to look at the world through blinkered eyes. The CAW / UAW? Overpaid and basically irrelevant in todays world. Let them go bankrupt as it might shake them up to the extent that the whole industry will open their eyes and start making products that people want, with the quality we demand.

Anne ottawa
said

perhaps the big three can form some kind of merger with japanese car manufacturers, ie some kind of subsidiary, a NA/japanese morph kind of corporation. the workers will still have jobs, probably lower pay but still jobs (and maybe fewer higher priced execs in the long run!). they have been living high for too long, the workers and the execs. yes there will be temporary unemployment, probably, but it will figure itself out. something has gotta give folks. all I know is they have to start getting creative and just crying poor and begging for money is not being creative, it is being whiny and pitiful.

George
said

I work in the mineral exploration/mining business; you know the ones that look for and supply the raw materials for such things as cars etc etc etc etc (just imagine how crumby your life would be without metals, and imagine how many people would be unemployed without metals - may I take the change out of your pocket as a start?) Even though one doesn't hear about us we have suffered as well. Mines shutting down and workers in the field shown the door over a period of hours. I wish the government would give us some bail out money to. We don't make a lot, we certainly don't get big corporate bonuses but we sure help everyone eat their dinners at night, ride their bikes and even drive their Big 3 cars. Think about a world without metals folks; without us - well the Big 3 boys would be peddling Fred Flintstone cars.

Darrell
said

I don't believe that the Canadian government would even consider such a bail out. There are a number of things that the 'big three' can start doing to fix the problem without getting a bailout from the taxpayers. Bloated corporate structures and inefficient work practices put in place by a ridiculously powerful auto workers union need overhauling. Plus, it would be helpful if they started making products that people actually wanted to buy.

Michael
said

If there is to be ANY help it should come with a strong set of conditions which include the types of vehicles they should be making etc.(..leave that to the industry professionals to decide).

These manufacturers have an outdated management culture in Detroit which is the reason they find themselves at this juncture along with their inability to change quickly to meet the new reality.

If it were not for the many thousands of jobs and future potential for a North American built product rather than all imports I would say let the go.

They certainly don't deserve to remain in business given past performance and product design and quality. Honda builds the BEST engines and if the 3 wanted to they have the same capability IF THEY WANTED too and therein lies the problem - THEY DON'T WANT TO preferring to build junk that doesn't last by comparison.

How many times have we been here before? Time to fish or cut bait for GM, Ford & Chryco.

No more babysitting unmotivated, fat, overpaid, corporate execs who lack vision and purpose. Change the management and get unions concessions for at least 25% less wages. They are way overpaid for the nature of the work.

JDS London
said

Why is there a discussion to bail out the Big Three when for almost 40 years they have been ADAMANTLY UNWILLING to create a practical replacement to the internal combustion engine? This current mess started with the Oil Crisis in the early '70's. Remember, other automobile manufactures have failed in the past...Nash, Studebaker..DeSoto...remember American Motors? Why not send the $25B to automakers like ZENN in Canada and TESLA in the US to bring practical electric powered vehicles to market? Their biggest challenge isn't the technology, it's the excessive government regulations that are holding these vehicles up. Now the government is betting on a dead horse. Let 'em fail.....

evelyn from ottawa
said

these three companies have to compete with the japanese cars they have to improve their product. people are buying japanese cars for its durability,economy and style.

Fewer lines more profits
said

GM, Ford, and Chrysler should all have one division and build fewer products more in keeping with what the market needs.

We don't need Buicks and Chevs and Saturns and two truck lines all under GM. The economies saved by bringing them together and simplifying is huge. Call them all "GM" a GM Cobalt or a "GM" Corvette etc.. Same for Ford. We don't need a Mercury Division. A "Ford" Lincoln will suffice. Same with Chrysler they don't need the Dodge label. A Chrysler Ram? Hmmm.. that sucks but them again so does the product. Ok, let Chrysler go bankrupt. They build the worst of the 'big' 3.

RVH
said

No bail out, corporate cuts and uninion cuts should be the only option. Don't waste my taxes on a crappy product and for huge salaries where someone screws on a bolt.

al from calgary
said

My 2 Cents on This:
I have no problem with the government giving them a loan with strict conditions ie no bonuses, no pay raises until every cent is repaid. I heard on the radio on the way to work that retired gm employees get 17 MILLION dollars a year for Viagra on their health benefits, theres 1 thing they can do away with, and how much more can they save by doing away with some of these stupid things.

The union should also get on board so that when new employees are hired they are paid salaries more in line with other industries, as this should be the last bailout, so they should be onboard or next time they will be over board with nothing, now is the time to show goodwill.

Prof. Pye Chartt
said

The prevailing sentiment amongst politicians, industry analysts and economists, both here and in the U.S., is that the Big Three MUST be saved with government assistance...given the significant number of jobs tied to the industry.

Unfortunately, North Americans are (generally speaking) a spoiled, inflexible, unadaptable, weak-kneed bunch who can't handle the idea of jumping off the ship and swimming to the unknown island. We'd rather cling to the side-rails and scream for help at the top of our lungs, angry that nobody's saving us as we drown.

The Big Three have proven, over decades, that they're incapable of investing their profits and OUR handouts wisely. Yet, here we are, poised to throw some more cash at them. Rather pathetic.

Let's hope that the "strings" attached to our money aren't simply threads but, rather, thick ropes that require the tough changes necessary to prevent the cash from being squandered:

-- NEW KEY EXECUTIVES AND BOARD
-- UAW CONCESSIONS
-- PRODUCT OVERSIGHT

Disconcerting is the fact that governments have a poor track record of monitoring and guiding private enterprise. HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT THEY MANUFACTURE APPEALING, FUEL-EFFICIENT VEHICLES? Easier said than done. HOW DO WE SPECIFICALLY MEASURE THEIR PROGRESS TOWARD THIS END? Much easier said than done.

Cross your fingers, folks.

Lorne
said

Prior to any consideration of assistance, these companies must do the following:
1. Freeze all salaries and benefits of management and employees, along with dividends paid to shareholders.
2. Eliminate all bonuses, whether in actual monies or shares, to management and employees.
3. Provide a detailed breakdown of actual production costs on the various models being produced.(My understanding is that it costs from $5000 - $15000 to manufacture a vehicle.)
4. Provide an detailed breakdown on where the monies go on that portion over and above the cost of production, as these same units cost the consumer $20000 plus.
We need the facts (no fiction)on the exact financial state of these companies, in order to make a sound decision.
If these companies can't or won't provide this information, then forget any assistance, as it seems that companies are jumping on the bandwagon, to get assistance.
Concessions by management and employees must also be made - why not a 5% decrease in salaries and benefits for a starter?

Chinese vehicles are coming to America
said

The Chinese are coming with their cars! It may take a few years but I assure you they will be well made and cost a LOT LESS than whatever the current average is in North America.

I would like to see a Honda Accord equivalent selling for $18,000. That will help the consumers here. We can't afford the price of North American cars and have to replace them every four years because they doesn't last.

The problems facing the big 3 are enormous and the biggest problems is their attitude and corporate and union culture compared to the rest of the world who are willing to work hard and compete.

They are sitting back thinking they rule the roost - well "hello" they are about to go into history as a failure and yield to Honda and Toyota.

Bye bye American cars and powerful CAW Union
said

I have given up on American automobiles. After 30 years of pretending they were making good cars to preserve jobs in Canada, I now have japanese cars and loving them.

The quality in simply better than an American Car and resale value way higher.

They have plenty of time to adjust and improve the quality of their cars, why should we pay for their lack of good management. the Unions have too much power and they were great at exploiting thier employers while thier employees had no concern about building good cars.

Time to let them go and suffer the consequences.

Robin the Hood
said

What guarantee is there that they simply won't walk away with taxpayers money or even still go bankrupt. Have the top executives offered to cut their pay by 50%? Guess what the heads of the US banks getting bail outs did recently?.. had a meeting that involved all kinds of outrageous luxuries and expenses at a fancy hotel. The current economic crisis is a product of corporate greed and corruption. Makes me think of why France went through their revolutionary war against its monarchy... there are close parallels. Capitalism - American style - has shown itself to be corrupt and unsustainable.
I think they had their chance and failed. What makes the auto industry more deserving than any other??! Sorry, but time to bite the bullet and move on! A new form a social capitalism is needed where there are checks and balances. Unfortunately, human nature on its own is prone to greed and corruption as history has proven time and time again.

Larry in Wpg
said

Obama, already hinting that he will give no bail-out to the U.S. auto-makers unless they close all their plants in Canada. Hidden agenda??

GO CAW GO away
said

Action should have been coming from their workers and syndicate.

They have token advantage of their employers for years while putting no effort at thier job to build a quality product.

We are not paying for these arrogant union workers for ruining their employers.

Good luck in your new jobs. Japanese company will certainly not hire you by the way they know what you can do.

H.M. in New Brunswick
said

i do not want my tax dollars going towards helping out the big 3!!! why should i pay for mistakes they have made?? i do not drive any vehicles made by them, nor would i ever buy one! toyota's & honda's are in my driveway for a reason

Michelle from Northern Ontario
said

Why should we help them out? We live in a free market economy. Competition is the cornerstone. If they didn't make the best business decisions to maintain their validity and competitiveness in their industry than that's BAD business. Not something that the public should have to pay for. I don't see public funds helping out Mom & Pop stores, or the "little" guys.

Yes, I understand that the loss of jobs would be extremely bad for the economy not to mention all the families that it would affect however, I don't believe it is the role of the government to bail out businesses that were on course to failing and dissolving anyways. If they didn't see the tide turning than that's just an opportunity for OTHER vehicles manufacturers to suceed. In fact there is a small car company - Canadian - company that makes electric cars I believe. Why don't we just invest more money in THEM since they are actually making what the public would buy?

Obamarama not so appealing now... surprising?
said

"If" Obama forces closure of the Canadian auto industry I say we IMMEDIATELY shut the valves to the oil and gas flow south.

End of the socialist protectionist strategy pretty quick.

Mike
said

why bother bailing them out they had their chance with their eletric car they failed and scrapped it and they now sit in junk yards. don't give the money to them, money should go to someone who can produce eletric cars, that money will only bail them out, not change the technology they build! Im holding off myself from buying a car until we have either fuel cell or eletric.

farmer
said

maybe its time we all separated our want and our needs (there is a big difference)

Ian from N.B.
said

Let the Big Three drop off the deep end, for years we've been assailed with inferior, overpriced products and now it's catching up to them. It's time to cut them loose and start looking at European and Japanese automakers who continue to be viable and bankable and willing to adapt to change.

Sorry Ford, GM and Chrysler, the people have spoken and they say "Goodnight".

Mike in BC
said

I have driven trucks all my life. When it was time to replace my chevy 3/4 ton, a few years ago, I wanted something that was dependable and got decent gas mileage. This time I bought a Toyota. I have friends that bought Fords and Chevs about the same time and had nothing but problems with them. They had seized engines, front end problems, vibrations that couldn't be fixed, etc, etc...
My Toyota has run perfectly since I bought it. This is the kind of reason the big three failed.

KC
said

$75 per hour translates into a boxy North American car that comes with only dual airbags. I bought an equivelant with that and side curtain airbags - '08 Honda Civic.

My wife's safety comes first above and beyond my loyalty to demestic products. My house is furnished with Canadian made furniture - it's of high-quality. Much of my clothing is also Canadian. This I say before somebody suggests I don't support my fellow workers.

If you guys accepted $30 or $40 per hour you might have won my business.

Lee Tanner
said

64 comments, and all of them AGAINST this bailout. What does that tell you? People are not stupid. They know that the problem with ALL struggling industries is FAT CAT UNIONS. Get rid of those first then attend to assisting the corporation get back on track.

DAP
said

The current market value of Ford and GM is about $7 billion dollars. Why lend them more? Just buy them outright and wind down their operations.

Matt
said

The car buying public hasn't been begging for efficient vehicles until recently.

They were demanding large SUVs and the industry responded. Now they're not buying anything and the car companies are in trouble.

Jon Veale
said

No Subsidies!!

Let them fold and innovation will fill the vacuume.

Ian
said

No amount of taxpayer money can stop the inevitable bankruptcy of at least one, if not all three, of the Big Three. Nothing changes the economic facts on the ground: GM, Ford, and Chrysler's costs are too high, and their cars are not good enough. Consumers therefore buy cars from the likes of Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc (I bought a Toyota last year and am very happy with it after my Ford started falling apart on me). Why should our tax dollars go to the LOSERS in the auto industry?

I say NO to this bailout!

Bob from the Foothills
said

Interesting, many of the folks on here are blaming the unions. True, it's not a bad paying job, but one executive salary would feed a bunch of plant workers for a long, long time. It's a very top heavy industry. If everybody's loaf of bread costs the same, just how much do those guys need?

After the gas crunch of the 70's we saw some really efficient cars come out that were affordable, and easy to fix. Chevette, Omni, etc.. hey Detroit, how about pulling those out of the mothballs? What was wrong with 40MPG for under ten grand? You did it once, do it again! Funny how not many people commented on here about how they're willing to give up their power windows, A/C and integrated GPS's to save a little cash. Sorry, you can't have it all people. I've been building and re-building fuel efficient leftovers for years. It's possible, and cheap.

John in Calgary
said

I don't see what there is to save when it comes to the automotive industry. What is going to be different? They've had years to "make a transition" but sat on their thumbs instead; while Toyota and Honda have slowly taken over with their fuel efficent vhiecles, quality and high resale value. So they are going to get $25b and keep the same decision makers that drove the companies down the drain in the first place?

New technologies don't just spring up over night, if they have things they can start to implement today, that means they were able to start yesterday. Instead they were too busy trying to find a spot for a fifth seat warmer or a rear back up camera so North Americans didn't have to look behind them or use their mirrors. These are the technologies we have seen as of late, so what's going to be different?

They were too busy developing a lease program so that more vheicles could be produced then the market needed. Well now there is a slow down in the market, deal with it. You don't have the huge turn around you did before. It's your own arrogance that got you here, cut your prices, cut your salaries and you'll make it through this. But no you'll keep your huge salaries and cut jobs instead.

M.E.
said

My business has been losing money as well. How do I ask the fed government for a hand out of tax payers money or do I just have to eat the loss until the business can no longer survive and I have to let all my employees go? The question is my answer. My doors will be closing soon. However, it looks as if the tax money I paid will go to help support some CEO's million dollar salary and stock options at GM, Ford and Chrysler. Just what I need, a new gas guzzler that I can't afford nor the gas that goes into it.

LARRY NL
said

I think if the politicians are reading these comments, they can't help but see that the consensus is not to bail out the BIG 3 and the CAW with our tax money. Enough is enough.

I wonder if the government bailed out the local livery stable and black smith when the Big 3 started putting the squeeze on them.
Another example is the "Wells Fargo Co.", they evolved from the stage coach and horses and are still going today.
Big 3 and CAW/UAW, be strong and take your lumps like real men and women. Try to make it on your own. Do the right thing.

Davey boy
said

Better re-open Employee contracts, reduce there wages drastically and definitely cut out all bonuses for executives. I say let'em go under it'll teach some of these fat heads a little humility and get rid of the idea of entitlement. My business is hurting it might go under. I'm also going to need a billion dollars to keep it afloat.

A.H of T.O.
said

A couple of things need to happen for thes companies to survive this downturn.
1)Reduce # of Brands to 2 only. One for Opening Price Points and One for a Luxury/Higher price points. Maximum of 20 products combined.

2) Eliminate all product with lackluster sales RIGHT AWAY. Like any company if you have a product that doesnt move you get rid of it, at a loss if you have to. Learn from the mistakes and bring to market improved product.
3) Adjust the plants, workforce and payroll to reflect new market reality immediately.
4) Be innovative and ahead of the competition. ( The Volt is a good example )

To give Big 3 Money without having them put a Solid & Viable Business Plan for change is pouring money down the drain.

As any Business owner knows , if you borrow funds , The lender needs a Bus Plan to evaluate the viability and risk.

When you ask for a LIFELINE from the TAXPAYER to save off disaster from poor judgement and bad mistakes you had better have a good plan before the meeting.

I hope that there can be a solution to save the Auto Industry, but not at any price and not with a plan without checks & balances of strict accountability & transparancy.

Davey boy
said

Hey Buzz Hargrove Do you see where the fruits of your labour have gotten the auto industry. Nice work Ace!

Warren Whitmore
said

Will someone please tell me what the CAW/UAW has brought to the table to help save the so called "Big 3". The Union needs to realize that without concessions that ther will be no jobs or workers to represent. No money until the unions step up!

Bob AB
said

There are a lot of industries that are in serious trouble. The agriculture industry, for one, has been bleeding for years and is now almost bled out. I guess as Canadians we'll have to decide do we want to drive around or do we want something to eat.

GREED LOSES IN THE END....
said

The greed of execs and unions and their unwillingness to produce good vehicles has cost them their livelihood.

SO BE IT.

Steve the Pundit
said

People posting here need to understand the full scope of what's going here.

FACT: It can take anywhere from four to six years to bring a new vehicle from initial concept to finished product, using EXISTING technology. That said, any brand new cars coming onto the market now were probably first envisioned back in 2003 or so, well before $150 / barrel oil.

FACT: It can cost anywhere from $3 to 6 BILLION dollars to develop according to this schedule, again using EXISTING technology. If manufacturers are trying to revamp their entire fleets, you can see how much money they're going through right now (literally billions of dollars a month)

FACT: You can't bring "zero emission vehicles" to market overnight and, even if you could, they'd be far too expensive for anyone to afford (that's why GM's EV-1 electric died; it was too expensive and a business case could not be made at the time)

FACT: Billions of dollars are spent every year paying legacy costs of former employees who haven't set foot in a plant for years (I know; my mom still gets a pension from one of the big three and my dad passed away almost ten years ago)

FACT: Executive compensation is a factor; but realistically, GM president's $2.2 million in annual salary is relative peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Of course he (and all execs) should make no bonuses while companies are losing money.

Knowing the REAL facts is critical before deciding on a course of action; there's lots to consider here.

Let them fold
said

I do not think that the government should bail them out, as this is simply a waste of money. McGuinty had a sensible recommendation on the weekend - NO MONEY until they come up with a business plan to retool plants and build hybrids. Completely restructure by firing the management and hiring new people with vision. End the unions.

The auto industry is a total embarassment. They lack a sense of responsibility to the consumers and the environment and are interested only in lining their own pockets.

If we let them go down, it will be a short-term problem, but the nature of humanity is creative, and it will not take long before new entrepreneurs with vision step forth with better business plans and start new automotive companies. Let's give them a chance, and not kill creativity and the entrepreneurial spirit by putting a bandaid on the current auto industry.

Roger T
said

Davey boy
...... My business is hurting it might go under. I'm also going to need a billion dollars to keep it afloat.

Truth is: our standard of living is sinking and some of us are about to lose our homes once the real recession takes affect, due to the irresponsible political heads and its mismanaged duties that runs our economy!

Joel in Kamloops
said

Don't bail them out. It's obvious they need help, and it's equally obvious that we can ill afford to lose the jobs and income associated with the auto industry.

However, there have to be strings, and it can't be a cash grab, and it has to be directed at future R & D.

The CEOs need to work for an average person's salary. None of them have earned a leadership salary. A leader needs to lead, and I haven't seen that.

This is such a bad situation, and it's sad that we all have been reduced to this.

Jay in Saskatoon
said

NOT ONE CENT!!!! Build cars people will buy, take better care of your employees, and stop paying your executives millions of dollars...THEN we'll talk.

James
said

Long-term viability of the big three is what I see happening here in North America. The big three produce good paying jobs for its workers. Yes there are problems as with any auto manufacturer. Re-Engineering over the long term will allow for more autos that meet the needs of consumers here in North America and around the world. Visit any big three auto museum and you will see the proud history and how the automobile has evolved over the last century.

BB
said

I worked with an IT company who took on some bad contracts and we went down the wrong path. However, instead of continuing down that path and then begging for government help, the company and employees got together to discuss the situation (easy to do when no union is standing between you).

Both employees and management took a huge pay cut (almost 1/2 our salary) and over a 2 year period restructured the company. We were handsomely rewarded in the 3rd year.

It's about time union workers started accepting some of the responsibility for the companies they work for. As CD pointed out, when times are good you fight to get a piece of the pie but you should be willing to take a cut when times are bad if you want to save the company and your job.

Unfortunately, these car companies knowingly continued down the path of destruction.

They (companies and unions) got themselves into this mess... let them get themselves out.

Frankly, I'm sick of hearing the unions whine. If you demand too much from a company, sooner or later you will break them or force them to outsource overseas.

W. Kirkwood
said

Hopefully somebody will package ALL these good ideas and send them to Tony Clement and PM Harper. In sum NO FREE LUNCH!!!

James Edmonton,Ab
said

Hey, G.M WAN'T TO BUY A NEW CAR ?.
I Mean't to say your own company thousands of
new cars available...
Also Family Pricing is in effect from the Goverment's
of U.S and Canada.
O% percent interest for 60 months and you don't have to pay a cent until march 31 /09

Doug @ Meota
said

Although I am not completely in favour of a bale out to the auto industry, we must concider all of the implications to the total economy of this fair land. That being said it is impairitive that both management and the unions take part with deep concessions as they were the pilots of their flight and shoudn't expect the rest of us to clean up their mess. Both vehicles in this garage are north american.

Kelly O
said

Unions have to go!

The unions have been sucking every penny they can from the NA automakers and have been for as long as I can remember. How can any company survive when the union takes such a massive cut. At the same time however, why do companies pay huge bonuses to their CEO's for doing their job? They are already getting paid a salary. no bonuses should ever be paid to anyone in any business!
If anyone out there is really paying attention you may hve noticed a couple of things. 1) Ford is rapidly retooling their plants in Canada to build the European Fiesta subcompact starting next year. Ford has been on this strategy for a while now. Take a look at the buses on Parliament hill, all Fords, all hydrogen. Ford has been at the leading edge of technology developement for quite some time. It just seems like people like to make uneducated comments about our products here in Canada.
2) Take a good look at Toyotas financial situation right now. Their stock rating has also been downgraded and they are taking serious financial hits around the world. They will be asking for cash very soon or they wont survive either. And their cars are no better than ours!

Kelly O
said

Marc
said

I have no tears for the big 3. They built total crap since 1974 and says they are the number ones. Now, they want us to buy one of there car with 3 month without interest plus $2500 of free gas. WOW! You paid full price on a small car with cheap plastic interior design who crack all the time and lost half of the price in 3 years vs a Japanese car with quality built who lost half there price in 5-6 years.

They laugh about the 4 cyl. engine and keep investing in V8 technology for Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Ram, Silverado, F150, etc. At the end, the big name ask $40 000, money we don't have.

RIP

NS
said

To Lindsay and others

Just because you do not buy from the big 3 does not mean you are not buying American made , Toyota for example does build cars in the US and Canada , there is a plant in Ont. for example

we have been listing to too many people say buy big 3 , why not tell the big 3 to make up and look at other ways to do a better job at build cars , the other manufactures do have issues , however they are in much better position to survive right now

in reality , it is never good to let large companies go under , too many people , too many jobs envolved . A bailout that requires an approved restructuring program would be much better for everyone , oneway or another the goverment is going to have to fix this problem. If these companies go under the economy will have a difficult time coming back

Andrew Noble, Montreal
said

What I would do, instead of handing cash to the Manufacturers, why not give - for a limited time - a one time credit of 15 000$ for anyone who buys a new car manufactured in Canada. This way, you stimulate the auto industry with tax payer's money, but the tax payers actually benefit. It becomes a win, win situation for everyone, from the low income family wanting to purchase their first car, to the dealerships that are suffering as well, to the Canadian unionized workers who would see their industry bulk up in the face of a recession.

Automatic
said

I'm all for a bailout, but there has to be a solid business plan and how they are going to go about and restructure, before they should get one tax dollar.

First of all, not one job should be allowed to be sent to Mexico or anywhere else outside of Canada or the U.S., this is an aid package for the big 3 in Canada and the States, I don't see Mexico willing to throw in a few pesos.

Second, the Unions at the big three are going to have to speak with their members about clawing back some of their benefits and in many cases their wages as well. If they all want to keep their jobs, they are going to have to sacrifice something as well.

Thirdly, no execs or anybody for that matter will be paid any kind of bonus until the companies show profit in four straight quarters. That's just the way it is!

And finally, the auto parts sector who supplies the big three need a break too. These poor sods who work in that part of the industry making little in skilled trades and semi skilled trades compared to the big 3.

Most of these folks are taking home anywhere from $10 to $15 an hour, are expected to work 12hrs a day 5 days a week. They need a bailout just as much, because when they lose their jobs, nobody is giving them any kind of a severance package other then a couple of weeks pay.

If Magna International is looking for a handout, then they to should be told the same as the big 3. Sure their employee's are paid well, but lately the execs are still getting their big bonuses while they plan to lay off thousands two days before Christmas.

Steve Panczyszyn from Toronto
said

Why should my tax money bail out any of the big three. Every time we bail them out they go on strike more, wages and job security.I heard one comment that an employe made, quote my kids can not afford to buy a house on 10.00 dollars an hour. So I guess you nead this bail out more than I do. If they want a bail out take a fifty percent pay cut and, make cars more in tune with the times, Make cars that people can afford.

eddd
said

I haven't heard a peep out of the CAW/UAW about helping the industry help itself. I don't see them offering to reduce costs (wages, benefits, etc). They're just sitting there waiting for someone else to help them out, and if the help is not to their liking, they'll just blame the government.

Don't give these guys a cent unless they are willing to commit and help themselves.

Toad
said

Dennis is right - lots of strings-actually let's say unbreakable cables of titanium.
The gov't should say ok- we're in and it's going to work as if you are already bankrupt. Eliminate the middleman.
Contracts are void, everything is on the table and we own a huge stake in you with oversight powers.
Executive pay and bonuses are rationalized to the reality of the industry's current state.
Cut excess divisions, ,SUVs, mergers etc.
Also no buildem here no sellem here - period.
Forget trying to sell to them it will never happen.

shineysideup
said

I don't understand why GM is crying about legacy costs that supposedly put them at a financial disadvantage. It can't be a surprise to a company that has been/should have been putting money away for the past thirty years to cover these costs. This shouldn't even be an issue. As far as GM goes, I got taken a couple years ago... I have driven toyota ever since. I cannot/should not have to pay for GM's poor engineer/production practices. GM's 3.4L motor and intake gasket anyone? More than one million motors later...

Chris from Edmonton, Alberta
said

Bail them out. Harper should give aid to the auto industy, but with strict conditions. The money must go towards keeping workers employed in Ontario.

Michael R. Dennis
said

GM, cut lines...
GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Saturn.
Make cars that your customers want to drive, don't make these cars to push people to bigger cars with more markup. Make a quality small car, not just large family sedans and SUV's

Chrysler has cut some baggage but can focus on doing things better. I just bought a Caliber (Dodge's entry level) and continue to be very impressed with it, but the fact that we went with our 3rd colour choice to actually get the car we wanted was problematic. Luckily we weren't picky aboot colour, but the fact that they (all the dealers in MB) had such dismal selection of what should be stocked well is disappointing.

Ford has also adapted and started making better cars.

All three:
Fuel Economy
SUV's make money, but customers demanded fuel econ and were ignored.

Quality and price
When we see commercials for an american car being compared BY NAME to it's biggest competitor, I wonder who's hiring the promo staff.
The big 3 slacked off in comparison to Honda and especially Toyota. Heck, even Hyundai is making a stronger case for itself every year (like the Genesis). This is a case of negligence as product quality dived and the price didn't dive with it.
If I'm gioing to pay 8 grand more for an American made car, I want better quality and the fact of the matter was that it mostly wasn't there.
These companies differentiated the quality of their luxury vehicles by simply not putting the effort to build a quality product for their lower lines for years.
The big 3 have allot of ground to cover to make up for this. It takes hard work to keep a good reputation, it only takes a large slip up or 'General' laziness top screw it up.

JJRoss
said

let them go under, restructure, and come back under new management.

I think the axe cutting should start at the top!

under no circumstances should taxpayer money be used to prop up these shareholder owned for profit companies.

Taxed to Death
said

Pay cuts, for all employees as well as executives. Cut back on the perks and benefits and get back to reality. Unions had there place but no more. I also do not feel sorry for a person who has worked at either of the big three for the last 20 to 30 years and now complains about miney and so on. What did these people do with that money? Spent it like the executives spend theres. No thinking about the future. Looks good on them.

jonjon72
said

As much as I don't want my tax dollars paying the salaries of overpaid union members, it may be a possiblity. When things are good, the unions demand their fair share but when things start to tank, they refuse to help. I would like to see salary cuts for management and union members. Get rid of management. The big three made billions for years on SUV's. Did they even plan for their future?

CW
said

The Unions have dug themselves a hole through greed. Why should my tax dollars go to digging someone out who makes $30 an hour screwing bolts onto a car?

Nanook
said

Bought a Hyundai, and LOVE it. Test drove a Dodge, that was higher priced, and a GM. Still bought the Sonata. No regrets whatsoever.

Oh yea, and my transmission still works!!!

Brian from Barrie Ontario
said

I find it interesting that CAW President Ken Lewenza is urging a bail out from both the US and Canadian Government, effectively asking for OUR money (taxpayers) yet he is on record as stating the workers will not provide any concessions to help out! Well Mr Lewenza, you cant have your cake and eat it to. If you want us to "suck it up" and help out "The Big 3" then you and your followers better decide what your going to give up. I dont see Honda, Toyota nor Nissan (which all have North American plants) coming asking for financial assistance! $25 per hour sounds better than nothing!

Don in BC
said

If the players won't come to the table to make meaningful changes in quality and costs to build (wages and benefits) then they should be allowed to fail to clean house and restructure. We should not put tax money into a bad business plan.

Doug BC
said

I dopn't think this issue lends itself to a simple solution.Neither a bail out,or a lack of action will be a good outcome.
If the "big three" go out of business,aren't the other manufacturers still going to be working? And why does it cost $78 per hour for employees at GM,and only $48 per hour at Toyota??
While I am hoping there is s solution,there is a lot to be considered no matter which way we go.Surely tax dollars can't be spent to subsidize over paid employees in poorly managed businesses.Unless they change the way they do their jobs,giving them money now will only delay the pain of losing those jobs.On the other hand,bankrupcy would see hundreds of thousands of retirees losing their pension incomes.
I do not see one right answer here.I hope people recognize this.Especially people who have a strong view on either side.No matter where this goes,some people won't agree.
This is a lot more complex than most of us understand.I think it may ricochet into world trade agreements as well.Massive disputes about subsidies.
I hope can all know how to spell "protectionism".I see lots of this ahead as every nation looks for work for it's people.

Norm in NB
said

20% pay cut across the Board. Union and non union both. There is your bailout.

Canuck in WA state
said

In 2003 I bought a VW Jetta TDI. Why? Better gas mileage when everyone was buying SUV's. Why VW? becasue the vehicle retains its value and is good for over 300 K.

Sorry big 3, your cars are shoddily built. I have had far more grief with my american cars than with my German and Japanese ones.

i intend to drive my VW for another 10 years, and if your 10 yr old cars are holding their value then maybe I will by domestic.

Nwrds
said

I can't believe people making such blanket statements about not bailing out the Big Three. While there certainly needs to be conditions placed on any form of financial bailout package, the government can't just let these companies collapse. Do you realise how many direct and indirect jobs are related to this industry? How many hundreds of thousands of jobs will be lost? How many millions of dollars the economy will lose because of the job losses, the collapse of consumer spending, and increase in EI and welfare expenses that would result from the collapse of the BIG Three". Are you all ready for the huge tax increases that will be needed to provided for the hundreds of thousands of regular hard-working Canadians who will suffer from this downfall. Come on, people, we're all frustrated by bailing out fatcat CEOs, but it will be you and neighbours who will suffer the most by the collapse of the North American auto industry - not the few rich CEOs.

A Big Three Purchaser
said

The invisible hand of a free market economy will make big corporations more competitive and listen to what consumers demand. We cannot all purchase the same make, model, year and colour with all the same options. That would be very Communist! Variety is the spice of life!

winston
said

What about the CAW adopting the cutbacks that their US brethern took a few years ago that Buzz said they would not do? If the government is going to step in it is time to realign salaries from top to bottom, with the union jobs and benefits being brought into line with the non-union automotive assembly jobs out there.
If they are not willing let the Big 3 fail, the other 'foreign' brands that are currently being produced in NA will take up the slack that is created and provide employment to the defunct brands employees.

Eric the Red
said

After working in the auto industry for 10 years, I was a member of the CAW local 222 in Oshawa. I worked at ACSYS (a local feeder plant), we took concessions to save our jobs till 2010 guarenteed. Then not even 3 months later they announced our plant was closing and within 2 years the plant is gone so theres where concessions get you. How about bailing out the poor working families that are losing their houses rather then multi-billion dollar companies.

steve z
said

love the comments here from the uninformed, uneducated, and generally people with their heads up the a.., the auto industry is an integral part of the economy. without it we would be a lot worse off. what most people here do not realize is the auto industry gives people what they want. why else would the f-150 be the number one selling vehicle for over 34 years? who new that gas would hit $147/barrell? now that it's back to pre '05 prices the demand for these units will go back. consumers want what they want, and suppliers will meet that demand

UGLY and over PAID
said

the big three are dead! face it there car/truck suck also ugly.let them die this is what you get for paying a guy 45$ per hr to hold down a botton.the olny thing that will save them is if CAW/UAW and CEO take a major pay cuts and we all know the buzz and his group of over paid jokers wont and nor will the CEO's so LET THEM DIE!!!!!!!!!

andre
said

I think the bankrupcy would have a devastating effect indeed, but on the CAW only.
It would allow the companies to reorganize, renegotiate all wage contracts and benefits. Airlines have been allowed to get that protection, why shouldn't the big 3's?
Here is a suggested plan:
- allow the 3 to get bankrupcy protection
- let GM become leaner by reducing to 2 brands (one brand and its luxury version as Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura have done)
- drop the number of models in the GM line up to 7-10 at most
- drop all salaries/benefits of all CAW members by 25% to match other auto makers
- drop the excess dealers
- also reduce Chrysler to 2 brands
- Get Ford to ramp up its focus on pick-up trucks where it is experiencing great success and brand recognition
- tie all executive compensation to performance and limit bonuses so that the total compensation cannot be more than 5 times that of the average worker.

...that would be a good start!

AJ
said

The last new vehicle I bought was a 1994 Ford F150. Being a middle income earner, it took a long time to pay off the truck. Now my economic situation has changed and I now drive a seven year old Honda SUV. With the downturn in our ecomony, a shrinking dollar and with my home value decreasing every year, the last thing I want to do is buy a new Chyrsler, Ford or GM vehicle. Why should I increase my personnal debt to save some auto workers 75.00 dollar an hour job? I am in my fifties now and I need to think about my upcoming retirement. Sorry UAW president, this Canadian cannot help you out.

JDS London
said

Do not be fooled.
This is a bailout for the C & UAW!
It is remarkable to see that using the model of free enterprise and capitalism, countries like Japan, Korea, India and China have beat us at our own game.

While we pandered to Unions and over taxed our manufacturing companies, these countries slowly devoured us.

The greatest mistake GM ever made was the scrapping of the EV1 in favour of the Hummer.

Had that not happened, GM today would own the Hybrid Plug-in market.

Sad.

Cory - Toronto
said

The CAW wants a bail out so they can carry on like nothing happened. They won't bend an inch when it comes to their demands...and now they are demanding to be saved from themselves.
I know that it would be one of the biggest "hits" this continent has ever seen, but it will allow for complete rebuilding and restructuring.
Time for them to go bankrupt. They will never change the way they are if they just get handed 10's of billions of dollars.

Kerry from Calgary
said

No government money should go to bailing out the auto industry. I work for an oil company in Calgary and if I lost my job tomorrow due to the economic downturn we are now in the government wouldn't be helping out me or the company I work for. Ditto for all the other working class Canadians across this great country who should be outraged at such a suggestion, as the only reason this is even being considered is because it's in Ontario. As others have said, if the 3 auto makers went under life would go on. I had a chev that was a clunker, a dodge that lost it's transmisssion after 3 years. Now I've successfully been driving a Honda for the last 6 years without a glitch, so for those who are all jusgemental on those of us who finally gave up on the North American Auto makers, maybe if they actually built a superior vehicle they'd sell more cars. If this deal goes through, I'd urge evcery one of you whose company faces bamkruptcy, low sales, etc in the future to demand money from the government, as we are all Cnanadians and it is unfair to bail out one sector who got themselves into this mess in the first place.

Will
said

Great legacy to leave behind Buzz. Go in year after year with your list of demands with NO long term plan. Maybe the UAW and CAW should put some long hard thought into working WITH their employers.

Ian Ottawa
said

This is a company and if it is failing then a new company with a better plan will come along. EVERY year the CEO,CFO and Admin O have gotten a large bonus. This is not right and they should take a cut to reflect the times.

Looking
said

Tell ya what, give me $15 an hour to start. A comfortable pension package which is co-pay and a dental/ medical plan that isn't like the criminal package the CAW people get and I'll work for ANY of the big 3. People will line up for that and it'll keep the government out of it. Take that and smoke it Buzz!

Chrysler family
said

It's so easy for those of you who don't directly work for these people to make ignorant comments like these! Bottom line is the government has allowed foreign markets not only sell in our counrty but also build in our country, while our vehicles aren't allowed to be sold in their countries. And these foreign cars! Well how many of you have seen a Honda civic that's 8-10 years old out there? Think about it! Sure it sounds like these cars are all great but have you had to pay to get yours fixed lately? Parts are costly, labour is costly.... lets pray those making these cheap shots about Canadian made cars dont' have transmission issues with their Honda Civics or Accords... you'll be singing a diffrent tune. Thanks to all you foreign supporters out there, your own job could be affected by these purchases!

Dana
said

I can't believe what whiners the Big 3 automakers are, as are their unions. This is called "what goes around, comes around". If they're going to refuse to make smaller, more fuel-efficient cars, and make far too many vehicles than they can possibly lsell, then this is the logical, end result. As a taxpayer, I do not in any way want to bail them out. Let them sink deeper until they have to use their own resources to restructure their design and manufacturing processes. Let the successful ones survive. And in the meantime, they need to stop whining with their hands held out expectantly. Nobody seems to want to take responsibility for their actions anymore.

Guy
said

Think about this... People are still buying cars, people are still driving cars... if the crappy automakers that produce high emission gas guzzling autos go out of business, then companies like Nissan, Toyota, and Honda will be opening more plants in North America anyway... so why panic?

A Winnipeg
said

I'm not surprised that the big 3 automakers are asking for financial support. The mismanagement and lack of foresight in their R&D, relative to other automakers like Toyota, have eventually caught up with them. And to compound to the already unstable situation is the ongoing selfish demands of CAW.

What is needed to be done in the present, and definitely in the future, is for these North American automakers to restructure and step up their plans so that it can be competitive with the ongoing progress/innovation foreign companies like Toyota have already made.

And while the world calls for strict government regulations on the financial district, I believe it is about time for some strict regulations on the unions as well. While unions are necessary, they should not be allowed to run free and demand whatever/whenever they wish - something we have seen and now know only leads to unreasonable, greedy actions.

Restructure the N.A. auto industry and put in some regulation on union functions.

Linda Braendel, Toronto
said

I just about threw up on listening to the news this morning. I heard that the Big 3 are going hat in hand to the US Government for yet ANOTHER bail out. Then,in the next breath, the announcer reported that the Union has said - don't expect any concessions from us - UNBELIEVABLE!

It is time the North American auto corporations, employees and unions faced the reality of the real world. There is a lot of room to cut back when you have assembly line workers being paid $65-90. per hour and being the beneficiaries of huge health benefit, huge pension plans and other social programs, costing over $3,000 per vehicle, before the rest of us taxpayers are hit AGAIN.

It's time for the auto industry to pay for itself and if that means loss of overpaid jobs, less expensive health benefit and pension plans, and less
junky, fuel guzzling cars being put on the road, SO BE IT.

Out of loyalty to my country and its people, I have always purchased NA cars, even at times against my better financial judgement.

I am now sick of the total greed, arrogance, non-concessionary attitude and lack of accountability of our auto corporations, their employees and unions - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

If the US and Canadian
Governments give them one more dime. I will never purchase another NA car and will probably be better of fot it.

Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

To bail them out even in part only delays the inevitable side-effect of bad management (and bad negotiation with their union employees). Why anyone, in or out of business, would view a handout to these people as even remotely intelligent is beyond my comprehension. Perhaps if they had any ability to manage and compete it would be sensible, but they haven't for years been bothered to try. Why trust them with access to public money now?

GP in Ottawa
said

Can someone tell me how this would impact local car dealers who sell BIG 3 product? I've seen news reports of dealerships closing in the States. How would that impact dealers here?

schpid
said

The only real disruptions would be the actual auto workers. All the plants that supply parts and the like would likley have to downsize but with aggressive re-tooling they would be able to help meet the requirements for those auto companies that had the foresight and planning to evolve. Parts will still be needed for all the vehicles already on the roads for quite some time.
Again, GM could have been a powerhouse right now if they had kept the EV program but they chose to develope bigger engined and consuming vehicles.

Sid in MTL
said

Toyota, Honda & Nissan will become N.A's big three....only a matter of time now.

I have absolutely no sympathy for G.M., Ford & Chrysler and U.A.W & the C.A.W. You have what you deserve! They are all so short-sighted. Too bad, so sad! If G.M. hadn't bowed to big oil and kept & refined the EV1, G.M. would have a monopoly today or at least a dominant grip on the automobile industry today.

Don't give them one damn cent of my taxes!!!

Alex (Toronto)
said

Two million jobs in Canada depend on the auto industry. People want to buy cars, but they can't get car loans. Asian manufacturers are in trouble too, and they will get help from their governments, not to mention the non-tariff protection those companies enjoy in their home markets. The North American auto companies did not create this problem. The banks won't lend money like they used to, so the car companies' credit arms have to get loans from somewhere else.

While the price of gas was going down, GM's sales were down 45% in October. That's the result of the economic crisis, not because of union wages or management decisions. Canada has some of the most productive car plants in the world.

Seriously the question is not whether or not Canada will offer loans to the car companies, but when they will do so. We can wait for the Americans to show leadership, or we can take the initiative. Based on past experience, I expect Harper to be a follower, not a leader.

Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

the truth about production
said

Steve the pundit is not giving you the total facts as he/she claims to. The only time a car takes 6 years to develop is when it requires parts made by outside sources that differ from what is already available...which is not the issue....A new car line , if pushed..will only take the big three 2 1/2 years to re-fit and even less to change the line configuration at the plant...Steve must be a union boy...or an executive with one of the lousy Big 3...making excusee Steve will only make your companies look worse to us buyers.

Bob
said

What did the big 3 do with all the profits that made up until now?

Before going to any government with your hand out first use your own money then scrap the unions who are costing you much more than they are worth.

Once you have done that, take a 50% cut of the pay and benefits from top end of all 3 companies.

ONLY THEN CAN YOU REALISTICALLY EXPECT ANY GOVERNMENT TO GIVE YOU EVEN ONE PENNY.

You cannot expect that you do not need to do anything on your parts in order to get yet another bailout.

Jimmy
said

Problem is they pay $77.00 an hr. This is more than most educated people make.

If they get laid off they receive 98% of their salary.

Their kids schooling is paid for!

This is what is hurting the Big 3! Not the lower auto sales..but the greedy union that is killing the industry.

Pay a modest $30 an hr, lose some benefits etc. Sometimes steady income is better than the greed you've enjoyed for years!

Andy
said

Don't give them a dime. They put themselves into this situation with the unions and the sub-standard vehicles.

What about my company? Can I pay myself $250,000, take a loss and get some govt money?

kevin smith
said

No $ should be forthcoming until the CAW is reigned in. Their wages and massive benefits are way out of line with the rest of the manufacturing sector. The public deserves to know the straight bill of goods on exactly how grossly overpaid and the union leadership needs gutting. Help the industry, YES with productivity/profitability based wages. Let the union look after the benefits, thats what union dues should be for. How about an hoenest and forthcoming investigation into the CAW by the media.

Hard_hearted
said

When the Canadian and US dollars were at par, these auto companies made it very difficult for Canadians to buy new cars from US dealers, just so they could continue ripping us off in Canada. Excuse me if I don't cry a river over their problems now.

Labour unwilling to be part of the solution !!
said

GM, Ford and Chrysler cannot compete on their home soil with the imports. In Europe Renault and others compete well against the imports. What does that tell you?

I suggest that Honda and Toyota buy out whats left from GM and make a go of it complete with new engineers, designers and new lower priced labour.

Word today is that Canadian labour spokespeople have publicly stated they will not compromise...

Well then ... adios workers - NO TAXPAYER ASSISTANCE. It's survival of the fittest in business - you guys bet on costly labour and have lost your livelihood.

So be it. T'was a bad choice.

Roger T
said

What else would the head of the CAW say in a time like this. Of course you go on TV and pretend that the union is suffering from the down turn and make it sound more scarier than it is.

Tell you what, why don't the unions and head of the CAW workout a deal to have their pay cut to help its own industry and save their own jobs rather than asking for bailout from Tax payers money!

Robert from Ottawa
said

Can someone send these comments to Industry Minister Tony Clement.

Gail (Hamilton)
said

Government should never cross the line into private business unless it's with a research grant or a tax credit. To take the public's money to bail out a failure is to ensure that the failure never corrects itself. Others are struggling as well, so sheltering one is just playing favourites and into the hands of the unions. While I respect the right to join a union, I do expect them to be reasonable with their "demands" and not drive the price of products out of reach for the average consumer. I have always purchased my cars from GM, and my Malibu will stay until more fuel efficient cars are being built and sold. Hopefully, they will be hydrogen run. Electricity costs will skyrocket even more especially with the "Smart Meters" the government has installed. We're still paying off government run Hydro debt.

DGL
said

The public is lying. They may say they want EV1's and hybrids, but they are buying SUVs and pickups. HYPOCRITES!!
Don't blame the big 3 for giving you what you want and are buying - The Ford F150 has only just been surpassed by the Honda Civic as the number one selling vehicle in Canada. It had been number one for over a decade.
I say, bail out the big 3, and stop blaming them for trying to make vehicles that people say they want, but don't buy.

RVH
said

Don't threaten tax payers that the economy will crumble if the auto industry fails. We will do just fine.

MuskyBuck
said

@ Steve The Pundit.

Fact: GM had produced and tested as well as field testing of several EV1 models.

The EV1 was taken away by GM officials when EPA standards that were expected to increase MPG and lower emissions in the early 90's were instead scrapped because of the Big 3 political lobbying.

The Big 3 has dictated who is to buy and what to buy for almost a century.

Recently in California, the state had applied for a waver from current EPA standards to increase MPG and lower emissions to a higher degree than the current EPA standards.

The Big 3 managed to get Bush to call the EPA head and tell him to decline the California waiver.

This was a first in history as California or any other state has never been denied a waiver to exceed EPA standards.

The power and greed of the Big 3 can be reckogned with now, we should take advantage of it.

JP in Ontario
said

I am absolutely furious at the management teams of the Big 3!!! These people have mismanaged, and run their companies in to the ground, and now they want us the taxpayers to fund their follies?! Give me a break!! Giving them money will do nothing but prolong the inevitable. Business is a cut throat game kids. Some are starting to take some actions which are less ridiculous now, GM selling stakes in Toyota, Ford selling stakes in Mazda. These are the actions that these 3 should exhaust first! Sell off brands, reduce stakes in foreign auto makers. Once GM, Ford, and Chrysler are down to just that, instead of GM (Pontiac, Chevrolet, GMC, Buick {already gone bankrupt once} etc), Ford (Mazda, Lincoln etc.), and Chrysler (Jeep, Dodge etc), then look at how to help them out. They are all over extended. When an infection is killing the host, the infected part is removed, time to sell some brands. If these companies made themselves viable to be bought out, jobs could be saved, and under new management, these companies or brands may become successful again.
Its pathetic that they just threw their hands in the air and asked their governments to help them out. I have friends in the industry, I worry for their futures, but for goodness sakes, GM, Ford, Chrysler, review your business practices, reduce your overhead by selling off brands, cut some executive salaries, open the doors to buyouts from other companies that are better run, maybe then my friends will be able to stay employed. Maybe we will see the Microsoft G6, or the Apple Caravan, or the Imperial Oil Mustang.

BMIA
said

What is this going to do?

Not a thing!

The cars need to sell for this plan to be viable. And the article and Ken Lewenza clearly state that automobile sales are low - historically low.

A contributing reason is that there are too many vehciles out there already. Most of us already have our vehicles (or even more than one). Great financing and lease options from the Big 3 over the years have pushed too many auto's out on the roads already.

I figure it's going to be at least 5 years before automobile sales will pick up to a sustainable level since our current inventory needs to work its way through the lifelines. This includes re-sale of used vehicles.

In case these folks don't get it, we (consumers) are already being pinched and squeezed (some from our own workplaces and industries) and can't readily afford to go out and purchase new vehicles every 3 or 4 years.

Too much supply and too little demand.

chh
said

I think it is time to get rid of unions all together. i also think there should be alot of management either let go completely for getting in this mess or asked to take a roll back of about 20-30%.

JP in Ontario
said

Here's another thought...why dont the Big 3 go with hat in hand to the Oil companies? Without them, the oil company revenues would eventually drop off. They have all recorded record profits, let them save the automakers!

Fed Up Montrealer
said

The best way we tax payers can protect the auto industry is to invest in Canadian-made cars like the ZENN. Zenn already has a strong foothold in the U.S. market, its assembled in Canada and is environmentally friendly.

Just wait until ZENN comes out with a highway-speed, safe, multi-passenger vehicle......they'll sell like hotcakes and foreign investors will lap up the shares like a cat to milk. If our govenment doesn't see this as the smartest move to protecting the Canadian auto sector, then they're just as short-sighted as the big three and the U/CAW.

I love my ZENN (I get a real kick honking at the drivers filling their cars at the local Ultramar as I silently cruise by)....but I'll love it even more when it is highway legal and can carry more than two people.

Al from Winnipeg
said

When Lee Iacocca was appointed CEO of Chrysler, He insisted that his salary be capped at $1.00 per year until the corporation became viable again (you have to let the workers know that you are sharing their pain). That's just good old-fashion leadership.

JJ
said

It is hard not to agree that the BIG 3 have not positioned themselves well and that are hardly deserving in getting yet another bailout! That being said, can we risk the economy going into a recession? If it does we all lose. I would rather we spend a little tax payer money to prevent a recession.

Jeremy from Ottawa
said

This is mind-boggling to me. Why is it, everytime the "big boys" feel pressure they ask for help? So you made a few million less than last year, or the year before, how much did you still make! Ridiculous! It's like asking every tax payer to bail out rich people once again. How is that fair?. If my industry tanks....I'm on the street looking for a new job....simple as that. Given the environment conditions of the last 15 years, you would think that multi-billion dollar companies would have the foresight to plan ahead, beyond oil-based technology....you made your own destiny...

Ray In Elliot Lake, ON
said

Now is the time for the people to have a say in what kinds of vehicles we need to produce for the future. Let's provide help with some conditions. We want electric Cars. Not oil burners that pollute and destroy the environment. Let the government buy into the big three so that some measure of control and direction can come from the people.

George
said

Looking: Fine idea and I am sure there will be many asking for the same thing. Let's keep this kind of thinking going. Maybe someone from the union or the "BIG 3" is actually reading these submittals.

This is the way to go and maybe bring back the Chevette like someone suggested. We don't need the big behemoths that populate the roads.

Allan Eizinas
said

Today the Big 3 are asking for addition taxpayer money to stay afloat but I do not see their new proposals. I believe that a sound business plan would have to be presented as to future production models and major concessions made by the unions – then, and only then should our federal government begin to consider guaranteeing loans.

You have a car that is beginning to burn more and more oil and is beginning to make strange noises. You have one of two choices;

1. You can investigate the cause of the problem, repair the problem and then add as much new oil as required for the engine to run.

2. You can stop adding oil and drive the car until it destroys itself.

If you just keep adding more and more new oil without changing anything then all you are doing is wasting it and your car will soon destroy itself anyway.

Our auto industry is “leaking oil”. I still do not see anyone trying to find the problem so that they can fix it.

Nancy
said

Sure, continue to blame to men and women working on the line. What an easy cop-out!

These men and women are taxpayers too, and although they earn good wages, they also pay out large amounts in taxes.

During the last contract negotiations, in May of this year, the CAW made concessions to the tune of almost a billion dollars over the life of the contract. A billion dollars, people!!!

Let's see the company execs start giving up some of their perks and pay now.

Garrett
said

Ok well just to let you guys know. When a company makes profit they do a few things. Pay share holders, as in the people who allow the companies to get extra cash for investments. They also plan for growth as in to increase sales and such.

Most companies dont save money, they spend to increase revenue hopefully or they pay out dividends and such to shareholders.

The auto industry has been in trouble for a while, they've been making big cars for to long, although that was the demand.

One of them has to go down, if one goes down then the other two can pick up the small bits to survive.

Dale Wilson - Edmonton
said

Steve the Pundit seems to think the FACTS are being ignored. The FACTS are that the big three have been failing for years and have been soaking up well hidden tax payer funds like sponges, other manufacturers make products that most North Americans and the rest of the world like better and that an increase in the price of oil (albeit not the speculative spike of last year which is now over)was predictable.

The big three are better off dead, they're going the way of the dodo anyway.

Tim in Airdrie Alberta
said

One of the biggest problems is that a lot of people in Canada having been buying foreign cars under the illusion that they are built better.
Not true

If we started buying our cars from the so called Big 3 the present problems would disapear

Jack
said

The best thing for North Americans is to let these 3 dinosaurs fail. Then, Honda could buy one, Nissan one, and Toyota the other, on the condition that NO unions are allowed. The CAW & UAW, together with management caused this problem. Let them suffer on it.
I haven't bought a Big 3 POS for 20 years, and will never again. Let them build cars people want.

GM (Not the Company!)
said

In the good times, local and provincial governments pay vehicle manufacturers and others to construct in their territory. With the big three, unions and the local communities having benefitted for a number of years, why should 'outsiders' now step in and provide a bailout? What is being offered up as consideration for the bailout? Union scare-tactics and armaggedon visions aren't sufficient for me to go along with 'gifting' any bailout funds in this circumstance.

John R
said

It is not just corporate greed. We have all become greedy. Its not just cars but bigger boats and longer camping trailers. What has happened to us? I remember camping in the days with just a tent and a coleman stove. My family never complained. Life was so simple 30 years ago. I am not sure a bailout is a good idea but a compromise has to be reached and rules set for all corporations, not just the auto sector. We have been bombarded by reports of obesity and diseases that relate to heart attacks. You might think I am rambling and asking yourself what this has to do with the auto sector. The auto sector is just one aspect of our greed, success and failure. The big cars, boats, camping trailers have lead us to become complacent. Finally, corporations have CEOs. The word leader is not part of that title. If we bail out the Big 3 and others, the CEOs have to LEAD by example and take the first major paycut and refuse their bonus. We just had Remembrance Day. Our veterans of WW1, WW2, Korean and now the present veterans have past the torch for all of us to enjoy democracy, not abuse it.

Tom in London
said

We should give Toyota more money they are building new plants and hiring people. Don't give money to groups closing plants and leaving the country.

Steve
said

Average quality products, ridiculous exec salaries/bonuses, poor product mix, poor management
decisions = GM-FORD-Chrysler.
Toyota,Mazda,Honda are not asking for anything from taxpayers. Let the big 3 go bankrupt they will have to clean up the industry.

Elizabeth /Vancouver
said

The government didn't rescue the forestry in B.C. The pine beetles have eaten all the pine trees, now they are munching on the cedars. This is a result of climate change that isn't going to reverse itself due to lack of action on climate change.

The Big 3 have known for a decade that no one wants big gas guzzlers - even the Americans don't buy them. They have been short sighted and deluded.

The feds didn't support the Zen car or the electric car company here in B.C that was forced to sell to Pakistan.

We the taxpayer shouldn't be responsible for these workers in Ontario who have gotten huge salaries for years and years, big vacations and big expensive homes.

Joe in Alberta
said

My family and I went to Europe this spring and it was a huge eye opener. We were so use to the way it is here that we arranged to have a car the whole time we were there. When we go back to Europe we will not get another car. It's not needed; the "electric" train system they have there is amazing, we were able to get around by train with no difficulty at all. You might think ya but it must be crowded, you can think that, but you would be wrong.

Every city in Canada could use a better transit system. More tracks and more trains equals more jobs. I'm certain that the people losing their jobs in the automotive industry would be able to adapt easily to the production lines of train building.

Everybody complains that we need to think about the environment, well this is our chance to do so. Let a dying industry die, if we bail them out they wont learn anything. They got themselves into this mess let them get out of it. Build cars that don't destroy the environment and the wallet, and a hybrid Escalade does not fit either of these. In the mean time the government can invest $25b into a greener transportation system that has many peoples best interests at heart, including the environment.

Stephen C. Oshawa ON
said

Why should I who makes $50,000 per year pay to keep those working who make a $100,000 per year putting together cars.

No tax money for the big 3.

Owen
said

Maybe the oil companies should bail out the auto industry. I have always suspected they are behind the retarded development of alternate power sources and have been a strong lobby for gas guzzling engines.

TB
said

Let 1 sink to teach them all a lesson. I have been a devoted chrysler buyer for the last ten years and love there vehicles, but I recently bought an 01 honda civic and I am very impressed with the car. To the people that say buy North american made. That is the thinking that caused this mess in the first place. People buy vehicles that best suit there needs and pocket book. I will buy whatever I can afford and like! The company I work for is in trouble fiinancialy sometimes. She we ask the government to play nice and give us a little bailout. All companies need to adapt and change in an everchanging world and if they can't then they need to go. The auto industry is a dinosaur that hasn't changed quick enough to survive the storm. I don't want my money going to help people that make more than I do. Screw them! let them go and the government can give me a bailout that I will gladly go spend.

Dave, Sudbury, On
said

Where do the profits go over the last few years when new vehicles cost anywhere from 25000 to 55000 dollars? Let them bail themselves out!!

shawn from Montréal
said

My sympathies to the hard working employees of these companies, but I say CRASH AND BURN BABY!

Don’t threaten me with economic catastrophe because we are ALREADY THERE!

This is ENTIRELY the doing of the upper echelons of these companies siphoning off the multi-million dollar profits of these companies year after year, ignoring if not sabotaging the thoughts, ideas and efforts of those that saw, YEARS AGO the need for far more fuel efficient vehicles and alternate fuel sources.

UNLESS we bail out EVERY failed business and company that teeters on the brink due to the global economic instability ( not to mention phenomenally poor management, lack of vision and in the case of the big 3, lack of common sense) I say the Big 3 get NOTHING!

rob s'toon
said

Needed is a new direction. Bail out now with no change and we'll bail them out again. Revamp to vehicle that DOES NOT depend on Gas. Can they not figure this out??

Nick in Gatineau
said

Isin't it an oxy-moron to have the terms 'Good Business Plan' and 'Government' in the same sentence ?

Its not only the Automakers that are being shown the mirror. Even government unions are witnessing their own slow demise.

Put it this way, their are Government unions (Federal, Provincial and Municipal)out there that are 2, maybe 3 collective bargaining agreements away from being forced to cut their numbers in order to obtain their demands. So imagine what kind of services they will be offering in 5 collective agreements ? The Automakers are already there.

I've seen many strikes and it always boils down to the same thing. The unions only think as far as the collective bargaining agreement. The never think about the next one.

Unions are always talking family, the rich over the poor, etc... They are the main cause behind their own arguments. They cause more poverty than government.

Until they look at reality, I have no sympathy for the CAW or the UAW.

Mike from Toronto
said

They want to give another $25B to a company who pays its workers $80 an hour including benefits(look this up)!!! Are you kidding me!?!? Vast majority of these people barley finished high school and their making as much as the average doctor and lawyer!! GM's Delphi slashed wages from $30/hour to under $10 and they still have people wiling to work cause these people have no where else to go! They are uneducated, unskilled, laborers working on a simple production line! People working for GM/Ford/Chrsyler have won the lottery and now im to pay for it with my tax dollars!?!?

Pickering
said

Pickering

I don’t think that the big three need any money for a bailout. They put them self in this mess. They should have thought of making fuel efficient cars like Honda years ago. I know what most GM workers are thinking “don’t support the overseas auto maker”. But some of the Honda and Toyota car are being assembled in Ontario. GM cars are assembled in Ontario, but some parts like Honda are made overseas and sent to the assembly lines in Oshawa. I don’t know why people say “support the local auto maker” when some of Honda and Toyota cars are also locally made. Toyota Woodstock plant and Honda Alliston plant. These plants are giving Canadians jobs and are supporting the Canadian economy.

Darcey Millar
said

Let them fail!!! All areas of employ in the big 3 get paid too much. I mean, $47/hr to stand on a line an push buttons, while the robots do all the work. What ever happened to SAVE FOR TOMORROW. These companies are corporations, and by definition of the law, a corporation is a separate entity, all unto its own, has free will, and the same rights and RESPONSIBILITIES of an individual, in short a PERSON (fact). And if this definition holds true they have the responisibility to make their own way or fall, like every INDIVIDUAL has. You don't see average Joe going to the government saying "give me a wack of money now! So I can keep spending it at the casino, or blowing it up my nose". What little the INDIVIDUAL gets from the government, must be paid back. But as we have seen time and time again, corporations do all that is possible not to pay anything back (tax evasion, insider trading, hiding money in off-shore accounts, or no country of origin). If I have to pay for my financial mistakes, so do they. Get over yourselves GM, Ford, & Chrysler. What makes you think that a "bail-out" package will help. You'll just continue to suck the money out of the public through poor quality, overpriced vehicles (of which most people can't afford) and through tax dollars on top of that. I will never buy another North American vehicle after hearing this news. Get out and walk, or fall on your face, I don't care. NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!!!!

Cam
said

Dump the union and I'd support the bailout!
Otherwise enjoy the unemployment line because you've learned nothing.

Tony (Chilliwack, BC)
said

Well if the BIG 3 would make decent cars and decent parts like they use to back before the 80's then maybe ppl would have confidence in the cars and keep buying them.

Motz
said

How come I don't see Toyota or Honda begging? Get rid of the stupid unions and I'd be more than willing to part with my tax dollars to bail out the auto companies. The so -called concessions from the CAW are paltry compared to what the UAW has given up. The CAW needs a dose of reality.

Kathleen
said

If they spent all that money helping out all the small companies that the banks put out of business to open their portfolios back up from money they lost on the mortgages and such, there would be a lot more economic gain to the economy. Make those big vehicle companies get the money they need from their shareholders. Thats what the banks make us small companies do. Buck it up buddies - hopefully the government gets a brain and makes you pay for your mistakes instead of Canadians.

Fratehauler
said

I am not in the auto sector.... But if any of them fail it will be a disaster down the road for not only the remaining, but for all ancillary businesses as well. 200,00 people out of work, less taxes collected, less money spent in the country, pension funds gone and so on and so on. Instead of buying foriegn.... Buy Canadian or American. The last thing we ned in this country is more Chinese products like their Chery Car coming here. Wake up Canadians ... We need to manufacture in this country not only mport from Countries that don't let us sell our vehicles in theirs. The Auto Sector is the life blood of our economy.

Paolo
said

If we give these people any money, we are just postponing the inevitable. Unions have (brain washed) the Teachers Pubic servents and auto workers. Gave them a false feel of entitlement when they were meant to protect the abused. Why don't we just lock the workers out like the NHL for a year and drop their salaries by 50% and half the benifits and NO SICK DAY"S. Then let back the people who say "what can we do for the company not ouselves". We will then have teacher who are in there to teach, free garbage pickup, tax breaks for business who set up in municaplaities and cars manufactures that have better margins to put together a better car . On top of all these item, we should get rid all management and goverment officals who has made the aggrements with the unions and autorized perks and bonus which has added and left us in this mess.

Alberta Lori
said

The Big 3 have been dictating for too long. They refuse to use the technology that's out there and produce vehicles that are efficient. They can make a hybrid truck, they can put diesel engines into anything but they refuse. The CAW created an environment of overpaid workers who had a sense of entitlement. Well...the ride is over and I would withhold whatever tax increase came to me to bail these pompous idiots out.I'll take whatever the feds want to give the automakers from my taxes and bail out my own company that's suffering in this economy. Come on Mr. Harper...like kids and drugs....just say no

Prof. Pye Chartt
said

@ THE BAILOUT SUPPORTERS:

If you're so certain that the Big Three are capable of "investing" public (taxpayer) money in a manner that leads to not only their survival but their success, then perhaps you should buy some of their stock when the bailout has been executed.

You'll make a killing. (Won't you?)

Those of us who have witnessed both the U.S. and Canadian governments repeatedly drop untold piles of cash into GM, Chrysler, and Ford, only to watch the companies squander it, feel a little uneasy about throwing money into their corporate black hole.

Spare me/us the excuse that their demise rests solely on the price of oil. Nonsense. This explains their collective ignorance and stupidity, not some lack of luck. (What about the other auto companies?)

The Big Three have been losing to the foreign competition for decades. Their products have long been third-rate. North American pride has allowed them to survive longer than they deserve. Time's up.

If GM, Chrysler, and/or Ford go bankrupt, North Americans' desire to purchase a new vehicle will not. The "market slack" will be picked up by the Japanese, Germans, etc., who operate plants in North America. Governments can insist on domestic production.

No pain; no gain for consumers and our economy. Sorry. It's a harsh reality, indeed.

Bob,Calgary,Alberta
said

There are two parts to this problem:
1. All three of the American automakers have had poor management for a long time. They failed to anticipate changes in consumer demand and they clung to making gas guzzlers because they offered higher margins than the small cars that the public now demands. Can the taxpayers now rely on the bunch of incompetents who run the Big 3 to turn things around?
2. The CAW and the UAW took advantage of the past prosperity of the Big 3 and used pattern bargaining to extract salaries and benefits that were out of line with the rest of N.A, industry. A $70./hour cost is not comparable to costs in other industries.
All that said Governments must help these guys to change and survive albeit as a much smaller proportion of the worldwide auto industry. However there should be preconditions:
1. A proper plan to retool, change focus and produce vehicles the public wants.
2. Leadership change to put some better mnanagement in all three companies. The bureaucratic cultures of the Big 3 have to change,
3. Significant wage cuts from the UAW/CAW. Rather than making $100,000. per year why can't they make $75,000, per year. This would still probably be higher than the average in Canadian industry. Why should taxpayers subsidize $100K p.a. autoworkers when the rest of Canadians are struggling to survive in a recession.

A VERY CONCERNED AUTO WORKER
said

People that are against a government bailout of the auto industry should try thinking a little deeper and listen to the effects that a bancruptcy of the Big 3 would have on the country. Look at the big picture. A loss of the Auto Industry in Canada would cause the loss of between 400,000-500,000 jobs in Canada alone. That is 400,000-500,000 more people that are collecting unemployment insurance,creating a total drain on the whole system. Quite possible lead to an increase in your taxes to cover the loss. 400,000-500,000 people that won't be eating in restaurants,400,000-500,000 people that won't be purchasing new t.v.s or won't need insurance for the car that they can't afford to put gas in, creating job losses in the sales, service, and other smaller manufacturing communities.
These stats don't include the U.S. where there would be up to 2 million people laid off. Those people would probably not be buying any Canadian made products thus affecting more Canadians.
Think of your business and who buys or uses the product or service that you provide.
P.S. Auto assembler's wages are less than 1% of the cost of building a car. They earn the wages they get because of a high boredom factor, a high rate of repetetive strain injuries and other maladies that some people cannot even fathom...like having to ask to go to the washroom and being told they can't because the relief person is busy doing another person's job. They cannot just walk away from their job to grab a snack, or a drink, talk to their neighbour or go to the washroom like the person sitting at a desk can do.

Dan W
said

The big three plants in Canada are some of the best plants in the world for quality and productivity. Why is there not uproar over the bailouts to the banks? Did they make any money over the last decade?
There are plenty of reasons for the current situation.

One of the biggest reasons for the advantage enjoyed by the offshore manufacturers is our trade policies. The cost advantage enjoyed by offshore manufacturers allowed them to put a high cost per vehicle into R&D for years. This in affect has helped them increase their market share.

That is not to say that there have not been mistakes by the big three, both in the boardroom and with the CAW dragging their feet.

Make no mistake though Canadian Union leadership and workers have gotten on board.

To those of you that resent a good wage, you just keep on board with the bullshit trade policies of the Conservatives so that we can all continue to see the standard of living of Canadians continue to drop.

For anyone who cares for the truth, there are many sources out there, if you wish to be informed, that will show you that Canadian plants are on a level playing field when it comes to quality and productivity.

Labor standards? Maybe not as there continues to be a race to the bottom with the countries that exploit workers. For those of you that are blinded by conservative bull or resentment of a good wage may you reflect on what you will tell your children and grand children happened to Canadian manufacturing.

I have seen many auto parts plants close that did not get on board. Any sympathy there? I think not. I base my opinion by being informed with all the information available and not blind faith in conservative McCarthyism or resentments.
Should trade policies and the current financial crisis caused by the financial institutions receiving the blank cheques put and end to the auto industry in Canada?

Garry in NS
said

I have to say that the CAW must bear considerable responsibility for the difficulties of the big three auto makers. I suspect that the President of the CAW earns a six figure salary with perks. However, if the big three fold, the trickle-down effect would be disaster for the economy when you consider all of the smaller companies that provide goods and services to the big three. They would also fold. Be careful what you wish for.

Steve in Ottawa
said

To Robert from Ottawa...

link to these comments has been sent

H.S.
said

We can complain about this all we want. However, the big three will indeed get a handout and their executives will continue to receive million dollar bonuses from our tax dollars. I'm for letting them go under. Then have them restructure with a new management team and non unionized employees. Turn the tables on the Japanese.Use their management models and streamline the number of cars and trim levels to be offered. Many auto workers who have lost their jobs, are only too keen to apply at Toyota and get the uniform on and work for less money for a non unionized company. I'm sure that they would take a job at a "New non union General Motors". I wonder how many CAW members and / or their family members drive Japanese cars? There have never been so many Japanese cars in Oshawa and Windsor and the unions wonder why their "members" are getting laid off?. These are cities who have relied on the big three? Having said that, there are other issues which are partially responsible for the problems within the Canadian Auto Industry. We should keep in mind that our Governments have not only subsidized Japanese Auto Makers in Canada, they also agreed not to permit the export of our domestic vehicles and / or car parts to Japan.

When you have top heavy management, a union who's only goal is to get as much money and benefits for their members as possible, combined with Governments who are continuously "politically correct", what other result could be expected ?

Gary T
said

This is starting to sound like a mining town issue. Everyone in mining towns know that one day the mine will shut down and lead to a shut down of the town. The sooner the residents of Oshawa, St. Catherines, Windsor and Oakville realize this similarity and start making "other" plans, the better off they'll be.

Wendy In Montreal
said

It's a case of we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. All the north american car manufacturers need to group together under one roof so to speak. Electric cars are the way to go and the government should make strict stipulations as to how the money will be spent and on what. Foreign car manufacturers are light years ahead of us and they shouldn't be. Our bunch fell asleep at the wheel and now the roof is caving in and everyone is crying. We do need to consider the employees and they need their jobs and the industry touches many industries so you see.....
Maybe, there's a small manufacturer, testing a vehicle of value and they could get backing and another industry is created to replace the old...We do have some incredibly gifted people in north america. I can't believe the car industry would simply fade away if they weren't bailed out.

Shawn Holden Edson ALberta
said

Maybe it's time to start downsizing the model lineup, become more efficient, make a better, more fuel efficient vehicle. The union, especially Buzz Hargrove, had as much to do with the imminent failure of the Big Three, as did the mismanagement of the top executives. If the union wants to save their jobs, take a rollback, lower their pension payouts, and help the companies instead of bleeding them dry,If you do not, there will not be any pension left for anyone. Don't cry to the taxpayer, most of us have had to do it already. Greed will not win, no matter what your union head says.

Exiled Canadian
said

Absolutely no way these companies should get a dime.

They have mismanaged their companies and were driven by profit and profit only at the expense of the environment. If their sales are down, it's because they have been focusing on selling gas-guzzlers while the imports came out with fuel-efficient stylish cars with high resale values.

Detroit produces garbage and they are solely responsible for their fate. Face it, the "Big 3" have been conquered a long time ago. If they want to continue, file for Chapter 11 and re-organize. If they bail out these clowns, it will be the airlines next, and then the retailers, and on and on.

Enough is enough.

Larry in Colchester
said

If the big three auto companies want a bail out then let them go to the oil companies.The 2 go hand in hand.Leave us tax payers alone.The big three pay people to tell them what the public wants then they build them.Who the hell are these people talking to?Obviously not the average middle class car buyer.As for unions,there is never a fair wage,they always want more,dam the rest of us.Business will just pass the cost to the consumer.A fair wage?At what price.If they can't get a wage increase they go for more benefits.Some one has to pay.The oil companies make billions by gouging us at the pumps,they depend on the big three to produce huge vehicles for insecure people to buy to raise there self esteem.Let them bail out the big three!

Linda
said

Why is the Union asking for aid? I don't hear the companies asking for help. It is time to say good bye to unions. This is the real reason why the Union are fighting to stay alive in the Auto business.They are not fighting for the employees.

Mario
said

The downfall would be short because if the big 3 went under than all the foreign car companies would buy the old plants and manufacture cars that are fuel efficient and reliable. I say let them fall. Also it would be a chance for the Auto sector to get rid of CAW and get a Union that actually cares for the well being of it's members and not how much more money they can get out of your paycheck.

smell the coffee
said

Unions need to take cuts ,they are killing the economy as north america is not competitive in a world market.

Concerned Tax Payer.
said

what needs to happen is not using tax payers money to bail or lend to the auto industry, they need to lower every single persons wage.
They get paid a hefty salary, my husband worked in manufactoring and didn't get nearly the pay the auto industry does and his work was to help make tires for the auto industry.
They make all this money and people buy or lease or finance their cars what are they doing with that money besides pissing it away.
i get upset cause all i have read about in the last few yrs is they need money well so does everyone else but u don't see them asking for tax payers money they are resizing and cutting wages to keep a float the BIG 3 needs to do the same thing!!!

Frank Genovese
said

Talk about a double edged sword! As the top brass lined thier pockets over the years they lacked the vision or ignored the reality of perhaps producing alternate fuel technology. They were too busy counting thier money. Furthermore, the unions grew and got stronger, larger and more demanding and continuosly held the companies over a barrel demanding more and more. To keep the assembly lines rolling (and thier pockets full)and to avoid rocking the boat they gave in to thier demands. We lost our competitive edge. The same assembly line worker attaching parts to vehicles in Mexico and oversees are doing it for a fraction of the wage as our North American worker. How can we compete? Is that fair or right? Why are they building better quality vehicles? Blame free trade? Impose duties to foreign vehicles like they do to ours? We did it to ourselves and now we're almost tits up! It's called GREED and IGNORANCE. Just think of the long term economic impact if we add 1M people to the unemployment line. Substantially crippled tax base. The strain on the social assistance program etc etc What's the answer? - a balanced approach that addresses a wide variety of problems and one which everyone gives a litte. Lets call it a 'low interest loan' not a Bail Out.If we do it lets make sure it's done right and that we have some accountability. Set very difinitive parameters ... Teachers and the education system beware .. you're travelling down the same road.

church mouse

Mario
said

Had to make a comment to the people who think they should be bailed out. Whether they should or should not isn't the big issue. You can't do for one sector that you won't do for another. I am talking about forestry. Here in northern Ontario 10's of thousands have lost their jobs because of mill closers. All we got was Harper bending for Bush and let the US stick it to all of us. No money for the forestry sector, no money for the auto sector.

GJ
said

Get ready for a hammering Ontario .. the US wont let them fail, and will bail them out .. but .. with strings attached (read: repatriate the jobs to the US) ..

if you are paying the bills you are in the drivers seat.

James - Eh!
said

The Big 3 going into bankruptcy would mean that all the "sacred" collective bargaining agreements would be reopened, and some of the execssive pay raises and benefits "they fought for" when times were good, will be rolled back. And so they should.

Its interesting that the CAW fought against two tier wages at the big 3, yet allowed them in their suppliers.

Bottom line, the big 3 have too much capacity and are paying their workers excessive salaries and benefits. All must be reduced or else the big 3 will cease to exist and those jobs and benefits will disappear.

Sean Calder
said

The entire manufacturing sector attached to, and including the auto sector, has become so bloated and overburdened by entitlements that it is no longer capable of correcting itself without massive restructuring including a re-evaluation of wages and benefits.

Now, I have no problem whatsoever with "good paying jobs". What I do have a problem with, is astronomically paying jobs requiring little to no education/skills outside of on-the-job, or in-house training. $70+/hour plus benefits IS astronomical.

CAW/UAW and Ken Lewenza would try to make you believe that those costs don't factor into the price of the product. The Big 3 are forced to say that same line because to do otherwise, would make it impossible for them to justify the wages. Business 101 tells us that the price of doing business is factored into the price of the product. That is a fact.

No amount of talk about repetitive/monotonous line work will ever convince me that this work is worth THAT much money. That's just greed from fast-talking and hostage-style Union Negotiation.

The Big 3, the Unions and the workers should be left to their own devices to find a workable and immediate solution to their OWN problems.

kevin dowkes
said

No bonuses to any exec's making over $250,000. Wonder how many will make $249,000. I'm not saying the bailout is a bad idea, but let's tighten it up. There is a substantial trickle down from large corporations to small businesses and it is imperative both primary industry and manufacturing are part of our economy.

Joe the union member
said

Yes, yes it's the fault of the greedy unions. It seems that the only people that ever complain about unions are those who aren't in one or those who make much less than union members.

Quit whinning, get some skills or an education, find a better job and shut up.

Brett (Vancouver)
said

GM had the EV1, they crushed them all.
BIG OIL is where our tax dollars will go.

I don't fell like giving tax dollars to BIG OIL. So I say no bailout. Bring back the electric car and we can talk.

John E
said

Chapter 11 is the only way the North American Auto Industry will survive in the long run. They must shed themselves of all the long term commitments they have under numerous Union agreements over the years. The pensions are killing the big three and a bailout can not do the job in the long term. As cruel as it sounds many will had to suffer in the short term, but Bankruptcy is the only answer. CAW President Ken Lewenza will have to go down with the ship.

Layton B in Moncton NB
said

Once upon a time, I was a car salesman, for a GM dealership. Short sightedness. That is the best way I can describe the Big 3, when GM dropped the Camaro and TransAm in favour of SUV sales, they basically planned their demise. The competition was still building CARS, and some SUVs, the domestic offerings got poorer and poorer, not the quality (GMs Oshawa plant was the JD Powers #1 plant in quality), but the features, basic design, it was like they had just given up. To think that cheap oil would be around forever is well, stupid and short sighted. I would pipe up and be shouted down as being 'negative', as the price of gas kept climbing I was astounded by the consumers lining up to buy these gas sucking land yachts. That is the other half of the problem, consumers lining up to buy them, the manufacturers won't build something they don't think they can sell. Were the Big 3 smart they would have started shedding models of SUVs and added cars to the mix, perhaps then they wouldn't have been stung so hard by gas prices. Whether you believe it or not, this entire economic crises goes right back to high energy prices. Do you think for a second that people would be defaulting on mortgages if they could afford the gas in their massive SUV? Most Americans drive em and most Americans have a long commute everyday, add these together with the high price of gas and you have the working poor. The American lifestyle(Canada included) is unsustainable.

If we bail out these shortsighted idiots, then we should take ownership stake.

US Big Three are not competitive
said

because they have to pay for workers' and pensioners' health care.

In Canada, auto manufacturers enjoy the benefit of public health care.

gjd
said

What are the employees of the big three willing to do to help in this financial crisis? They have supposedly made hundreds of millions in concessions yet their hourly rate when benefits are calculated into the overall equation is still well above those of Honda and Toyota. It is not a right to make these automobiles, although many of the employees employed at the big 3 think so. If they can't be competitive then they had better start thinking of ways to trim the fat from within and stop looking for bailouts from the Canadian public. It wasn't very long ago that these guys were fighting for even higher wages; no wonder so many Canadian jobs have gone south to Mexico.

buy domestic
said

Its just a matter of time before your job goes to Asia.With the big the Big three gone the Japanese can set their own prices ,just like OPEC.Keep smiling.

David Dunlop
said

Big 3, that's Toyota, GM and VW in that order based on global manufacturing. Let's just hope the fools on both sides of the border coordinate to save this ailing industry and the millions of jobs at risk if they fail. This is not a time for finger pointing but a time for solutions to the short and long term problems.

aj
said

I agree with all the objectors for this bail out plan and I commend everyone that has taken their time to speak-up and make their views known.

I just hope that the People who are charged with making the decisions are listening and reading....

Gord
said

There are a lot of employees in the parts sector that don't get the high wages the line workers get at the assembly plants. Not everyone who works for the CAW gets big bucks.I think that you should be more concerned with the executives that pull in millions every year for sitting on their backsides doing next to nothing. And that goes for the union executives too. The Big 3 built the vehicles that the majority of people wanted. If gas prices hadn't gone through the roof they would still be buying their SUV's and big trucks to drive to the corner store. I don't agree with a bail out either. They dug their hole and should have to find a way out of it on their own. A lot of union members have said for years that the Big 3 should be building more small gas efficient vehicles or the foreign market would take over but the over priced execs don't listen to the grunts. By the way I drive a 98 Chevy Cavalier but my next vehicle will probably be a Hyundai. After 30 years in the union my wage was $17.42/hour and my benefit package is worse than most non union shops.

Trevor McKay
said

Taxpayer dollars can be spent better elsewhere.

Jim
said

The "detroit three" deserve to go under BUT the like them, the economy is not prepared to take that hit, they know it, the government knows it, and so do we, if truth were to be told.

I think it is time however, not for a "bailout" but a FORCED RESTRUCTURE and RE FOCUS. Now is the time for governments to FORCE poorly managed companies and unions to restructure, under strict financially guidelines.

It is not enough to hand out money (that has been tried, and fails miserably), the governmemnts should buy a stake in these companies, and hold the CARROT and the STICK.

Then we could have an INDEPENDENT ARBITRATOR sit on the board. The British government employed this system for the banks, and it is the ONLY WAY to protect the INVESTMENT that the unions and corporations are asking for.

BOTH SIDES, corporate AND union, have NOW HIT THE WALL, and if they want more, IT MUST BE ON THE TAXPAYERS TERMS.

The union rank and file should say thankyou to Mr. Hargrove. NOW you know why the union movement is in decline, TOO STRONG is not strength at all. And the corporations have GOT TO GET REAL! Everyone forms a contingency fund in good times, and if these people did not, they are just fools and should be removed.

Finally, the public has to share some of the blame here as well. We were the ones buying the pick ups, SUV's, HUMMERS, caddy's, and as we buy, they made.

It is time for EVERYONE to have a reality check........

Rob
said

The Big 3 have been "in big trouble" for as long as I can remember... at the same time they seem to have posted some might "big" profits. I say, take the lump, let the skinny cows eat the fat cows... or did you forget to save a little back each year??? One little crisis and you're done?? Poor management if you ask me! Stop giving these "3 Turkeys" all the freebies! By the way, even with all the economic downturn, they're still 50,000 workers short in Alberta. Go west... and don't even look back!

Travis in Winnipeg
said

not interested in seeing a bailout. start making vehicles Canadians want. There needs to be a shake up in this industry. It should be up to the auto industry to make the changes required. Capitalism at its best.

RT
said

I am incensed at the fact that anyone is even thinking of bailing out the "Big 3"! They don't get a dime! If they do, I propose that we all boycott domestic autos. No one else gets "bailed out" when things go awry, why should they! I just can't fathom what these auto makers have done with their obscene profits over the years. No, it’s about time the playing field gets levelled, rebuild, better, greener, and economically. The "restructuring money should be better spent on companies that are ready to explore, and develop alternate fuel vehicles.

katava
said

don`t give the big 3 a cent. they do not desver our money. only when the old are gone, the new will be born.

Bill
said

The big three auto makers and the unions that work for them have been ripping off the consumer for years by insisting the government apply import taxes on vehicles of far superior quality that enter the country. I believe that bankrupcy is the only way they can solve their problems.

Robert from Brandon
said

It's obvious that the business model needs to change. Adding subsidies to the existing model is like pouring money into a black hole. The 3 need to be competitive. We are a global economy. Protectionism is a thing of the past.

GLENN SAMETZ Toronto
said

Every year the CEO's get bonuses. Even with they lose money. One GM CEO recieved a $3 million bonus because the company only lost $500 million instead of a projected $1 billion. Give me a break.

spencer
said

How long ago was it that LEE IOCOCCO took the helm at chrysler for $1 a year till the company turned things around ??

We can blame big oil companies or thank them....this day would come when we are building a car that nobody wants, or like last summer can afford to drive.
Time to develope a new car that is not reliant on oil for power. Perhaps they are already out there.....the oil companies have bought up the patents!!

It is very hard for me to subsidise a union job by a hard working non union member making half the wage.

AUTOWORKERS WIFE
said

Look at the big picture people.
If the Auto workers lose their jobs then expect
a) hundreds of thousands of unemployed claiming UI
b) knock on effect to other business/shops/services
c) less money paid to charities - many currently pay direct to charity from wages
d) less food in the food bank - no not because the auto workers will eat it but because they supply aload of it
e) higher taxes - they get paid high wages and they get taxed high too...if they're not paying high taxes and claiming UI who's going to pay the taxes ?

No one denies the CEO's are to blame for a lot of this, but the average person on the line is not the reason the companies are in trouble. Don't tell me they're paid too much, with too many benefits....the jobs were there in the past for you to apply for them too if you thought they were so well paid and so easy...but you didn't because you knew you'd hate the job. Don't assume any one working the line has no education, many have degrees and only took these jobs because of the last recession, and no finding another job will not be easy with a degree because there will be no other jobs because there will be no industry to speak of in Ontario for instance.
Anyone claiming the other car companies aren't hurting because they are non union, think again they have admitted they may need help soon too but they're just watching from the sidelines right now not taking the heat, they'll jump in when money is offerred you watch, then what will your agruement be?
this statement that the auto workers kids schooling is paid for ?? With what there's no grants to put kids through school just because you're an auto worker.RIP ONTARIO

Ange Fortin
said

Ange from Ottawa

As much as I don't like the idea of my tax dollars going into a bailout package for the "Big 3" I like the idea of my tax dollars going towards 500,000 new EI claims even less. Sorry folks, one way or another our tax dollars are going toward the auto industry and it's direct and indirect workers.

Maybe I'm a fool but I'd rather loan the Big 3 tax dollars with some very strict restrictions and requirements attached, including, say, a cut of future profits or a modest 5% interest rate on the loan.

500,000 more people on EI means 500,000 more households that potentially can't pay their mortgages, can't make car payments, can't save for retirement, can't buy clothes or Timmies or books or wine or tv's or 1000's of other consumer goods.

The collapse of the Big 3 could be truly catastrophic in this current economic crisis.

AUTOWORKERS WIFE
said

No not all auto workers drive their own cars....they should I agree.
If they don't they are forced to park at the back of the car park and walk the walk of shame so to speak.
Let's be honest though, how many of you can honestly say you buy Canadian all the time ?
The Ontario Auto workers build some of the most cost effective cars in the world, without them all your future cars will come from cheaper labour forces with less skills.
Do you honestly think that if the big 3 go under all the others will not increase their prices? They may be cheaper now but will they with no one else to supply you ? If you buy from abroad then the profit goes abroad, the wages for that worker are spent abroad not in your shop/business in Ontario.
Gloat as much as you want right now, because if the big 3 go under so will you in the near future. Learn from history when Hawker sidney went under the local economy went under, but this is a global recession so the effect will be bigger.

B. Kelley, Ontario
said

The NA auto industry has been committing assisted suicide for the past 2 decades. Assistance has been ably provided by the CAW and UAW. Both the companies and the unions think that long term strategic planning is about what they're going to do this week. That's why they're still building the wrong products and don't have any meaningful flexibility to respond to market changes. Why the hell should we bail out such incompetence and greed. Cry me a river for factory workers who get paid $30 per hour to install door handles and file grievances and CEO's who make millions while steering the ship onto the rocks at full speed.

RW in Alberta
said

Yes, why don't we all go back to the horse and wagon days? And we can all stop tavelling by plane, train or any other type of fossil fuel burning conveyance. Most people of this day and age are nothing more than hypocrites. They like the convenience but don't want to pay the cost. Having grown up in a family that worked for many years in the auto industry I can empathize with Some of the workers But I also feel the unions have long outlived their usefulness and should be disbanded. I also feel that the import manufacturers should also play by the same rules and their respective countries allow North American vehicles to be sold there and stop their protectionist habits or we should deny them access to our markets.

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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.

J Stad

Alberta going for broke with record $4.7B budget deficit

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Detroit Three plead for money, but is anyone listening?

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