CTV News | Losses force GM to slash 3,600 jobs in Canada, U.S.

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Losses force GM to slash 3,600 jobs in Canada, U.S.

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CTV News: John Vennavally-Rao on the cuts
CTV Toronto: Austin Delaney on the bleak numbers for the Ontario auto industry
CTV Newsnet: Gary Fedchun, Automotive Parts Manufacturers Association on how the credit crunch is affecting the industry
CTV Newsnet: Ken Lewenza, president of the CAW, explains what his members are most frustrated with
CTV Newsnet: Susan Winlaw, automotive journalist, says the industry has done itself in by failing to adapt to consumers
CTV Newsnet: Chris Buckley, president, CAW Local 222, on what concerns workers
CTV Newsnet: BNN's Paul Bagnellon explains why Ford and GM are losing so much money

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Nov. 7 2008 9:07 PM ET

General Motors Corp. will trim about 3,600 North American staff, including 500 in Canada, as the auto giant grapples with a major third-quarter loss, which it released Friday.

The auto giant said the layoffs will come early next year as GM reports a net loss of US$2.5 billion this quarter, which were blamed on shifting market trends and a struggling global economy.

The numbers were seen as "reflecting rapidly deteriorating market conditions in the U.S., slowdowns in other mature markets around the world, and continued losses at GMAC Financial Services," GM said.

Meanwhile, GM announced that diminishing funds have forced it to halt acquisition talks with Chrysler. GM also warned that company cash reserves could dry up next year.

Revenue in the third quarter was at $37.9 billion. In the same period one year earlier, GM's revenue was $43.7 billion.

This year's drop translates to share-value deterioration of $4.45.

The news from GM came only hours after Ford released its own grim financial update earlier in the day.

U.S. president-elect Barack Obama addressed the auto sector's problems in his first press conference since being elected on Tuesday.

He called the auto industry the "backbone of American manufacturing" and pushed the Bush administration to help speed up the distribution of a US$25 billion loan program. It would be used to help automakers create more fuel-efficient vehicles.

Canadian reaction

At GM's Oshawa, Ont., plant, workers and managers have already begun to prepare for assembly line slowdowns and potential staff cutbacks.

However, Oshawa mayor John Gray added that he doesn't anticipate any shifts will be lost.

"Obviously it's not good news out of any of the auto manufacturers. It's about consumer confidence in the United States and I hope they can get it turned around because if they can't, it's going to hurt us even more if we don't get that consumer confidence back."

Gray suggested a government bailout shouldn't be ruled out since the industry is vital to the nation's economy.

He said the industry simply needs help to get through a difficult period.

"I look at what the automotive manufacturers are doing right now, the innovations they're doing, the products they're going to be coming out with in just a few short yeas," Gray told CTV Toronto.

"But we have to get them to that point and that really mandates that the government needs to step in and provide some loan guarantees, because with these numbers they're not going to be able to get a cent from anybody."

Still, even veteran auto workers at the Oshawa plant, which ships 85 per cent of its product to the U.S., fear they could be laid off.

"It is possible, anything's possible, everyone is living on the edge," 20-year auto worker Bob Bawdy told CTV Toronto's Austin Delaney Friday.

Other workers expressed similar worry about their future at the Oshawa plant.

"Well, everyone's on pins and needles, I mean there's been so many lay offs," said another worker who declined to give his name.

"It's not a good feeling."

Meanwhile, the U.S. slowdown has sent shockwaves through Canadian industry.

Earlier this week, about 250 workers at Magna plants throughout the Greater Toronto Area were told they would be laid off on Dec. 23.

Plants in Newmarket, Bradford and Vaughan will be affected as Magna posted its first net-quarterly loss in 17 years.

Ford losses

The Ford Motor Co. said earlier Friday it lost $129 million and spent $7.7 billion in cash in the same period. The company also said it would be forced to cut 500 white-collar jobs in its North American offices.

Ford's losses resulted in a drop of six cents per share for the quarter -- but $1.31 per share overall, which was higher than expected.

One year ago, Ford lost $380 million, or 19 cents per share.

As a result of the losses, Ford said it will shed a further 10 per cent of its North American salaried workers in a desperate attempt to survive the current global economic slowdown.

Much of Ford's troubles result from lagging sales of high-end Jaguar and Land Rover vehicles. Twenty-two per cent fewer Jags and Land Rovers rolled off of dealers' lots in the third quarter, resulting in a drop in sales from $41.1 billion to $32.1 billion.

Both Ford and GM said recently that factory production needs to reflect declining sales -- which will likely translate to further job cuts for both.

The Associated Press reports that neither company is planning to close factories, but may well slash shifts, ban overtime and schedule temporary plant shutdowns.

GM is also expected to slow down its product development schedule.

The president of the Canadian Auto Workers union told AP he hopes Ontario workers will be protected from the job cuts.

"We're watching with anxiety," Ken Lewenza said on Thursday.

"I'm hoping that they're not going to announce more layoffs because we've suffered. I'd prefer temporary layoffs, temporary shutdowns in lieu of anything permanent until this darn economy turns around."

Lewenza added that the Canadian government hasn't been proactive enough in ensuring the domestic manufacturing sector weathers the economic storm.

"Our problem here in Canada is that we don't see the urgency out of the Canadian government the same way we see urgency out of the US government."

Top executives from Ford and GM travelled to Washington on Thursday to make an argument for more federal funding to help deal with declining sales. There is no word yet on whether the request was granted.

BNN's Michael Kane said governments in Canada and the U.S. need to decide whether the auto industry is too important to allow it to fail.

"You can look at it as a sick patient. They're in intensive care and they're asking for certain medicines to get better with and it's up to government to figure out how much they can afford to prop up these outfits," Kane said.

With files from The Associated Press


Comments are now closed for this story

JP in North Saanich, BC
said

Well- should we feel sorry for them - NO !!!!
They did two things to bring on there problems-
First - they we like many other businesses - Greedy- raising prices to make great profit when economy was good, second - when makers like Honda and Nissan and others began selling in the North American market- The Big Three sat back and watched- they did not change or adjust and now they will pay the price-
Lets HOPE that Harper does not bail them out in Canada.
As for Auto workers making huge salaries in the past and now possibaly losing there job- so sad that now they will have to do so physical work for a change.


Wade: Buying a foreign care kills 2 jobs
said

At the Democratic convention I attended in Denver when Obama won the nomination the parking lot was filled with imports.
Eerytime someone buys a foreign car 2 jobs are lost in the economy forever.
How many people has your family put out of work?


James
said

This is a sign to close Oshawa truck plant earlier than expected. It's sad but things like this need to be done to prevent boat from sinking.


NH
said

It is really awful to see people losing their jobs,but throwing MORE tax dollars at the problem is not going to solve anything.Governments over the years have dumped in hundreds of millions of dollars only to see plant closures and job losses anyway. For a business to survive it has to focus on the needs to the customer.That means quality products at a compteitive price.


Wes
said

That doesn't surprise me and I believe it is going to get worse. In our days, people have a tendency to buy japanese vehicle or they just take the bus and subway to get to work. A lot of people have a less desire of bying a vehicle especially the way that North american vehicles are doing right now.
Their reliability has been flushed in the toilet.


Joshua in Windsor Ontario
said

The banks are being tough on lending out money due to losses in from sub-prime mortgages.
The banks did not know when they gave a unemployed person with no down payment and job the mortgage would go bad.
The banks did know if they made a $400,000. mortgage loan at 32% over 40 yrs with 2 yrs of low payments the banking rules allowed them
to put $5,120,016.72 in assets on the books the total value of the mortgage with montly payment of $10,666.70
This huge assets value for little money out the door made it look like they were buying money and making huge profits, then taking monster bonus cheques for the excecutives in the millions.
Now many lenders have no money to lend as when the mortgage went bad they have to write the $5 million off there books and the cash compared to obligations to lenders is very low.
And thats why the banking problem effects borrowers for cars.


Tyler on the bus
said

The UAW Unitied Auto Workers in the Canada and the USA have made North America cars unaffordable.
$10,000. is added to the average car to cover benefits.
That doesn't happen in South Korea but the Union doesn't get it.


Steve
said

Easy solution...lower the price of their vehicles. They'll soon be receiving our tax dollars to compensate them for 1. management bonuses and 2.the loss of profit. Oh an important point... my tax dollars are only available while I have a job. My company doesn't get hand outs from the government to keep me working and we are laying off as well.


Adele Calgary
said

Good news and bad news for Ontario.
The good news is parents can't get a tax deduction if there kids say the lords prayer in school.
The bad news the government taxed the auto industry out of business in Canada.
Ontario your Liberal voting habits have cost you your job!


Mike from Edmonton
said

I used to own GM products, but after so many reliability issues, I too have switched to foreign autos - Smart (Mercedes) and Toyota. Combine a poor product with overpaid union workforce, and this is not a surprise. The big 3 will all be hurting.


Wendy In Montreal
said

The canadian and american auto industries are again asking for money. Why don't they do the right thing and forget the gas cars and move into electric cars. In my opinion if governments are going to bail these guys out again they should make demands as to what they should produce. Toyota is coming out with their electric car in 2010. Electric cars are clean with zero emissions.We could see a reduction in the cost of insurance, less accidents. It would be a good thing all around. Let's not forget cheaper for consumers no major parts to change. It's the only sensible thing to do.


NON UNION WORKER!
said

What auto company can survive when for every person they employ the company pays 2 t 4 retirees pension plus benefits?

This works for teachers, city workers ETC cause they just raise our taxes to cover it, can't keep raising car prices to cover there expenses and expect same sales.


Ryan
said

I don't feel the least bit sorry for the big 3, they chose not to change with times. Their products altogether are garbage and then there are foreign companies like Toyota that offer reliable vehicles that are very fuel efficient. The choice is obvious business is business big 3 as for my family we're sticking to our Toyotas and Hondas


Chris Ont
said

No one bails me out if I go bankrupt. But I require vehicles to earn a living. I just can't afford new, and right now I have had to let most of my staff go. Why should my tax dollars go to save someone else's job. Small business owners just don't have the safety nets that larger companies have. I have 9 Fords and 2 GM's, but only one bought new. The free ride is over.


Simon Shaw
said

I am guilty of shopping at Walmart and Dollarama and if you buy anything that was not made in Canada, then you are as guilty as I am. The demise of our nation is our fault. It cannot be blamed on any politician of any stripe. We cannot blame China or India. Each time we make a choice to buy something, we either choose to support Canada or in most cases we choose to be a loathesome traitor to our great nation by purchasing foreign products..


Dextre Tran
said

When I talk to car mechanics, they recommend Japanese vehicles. Japanese vehicles are simply superior in engineering, reliability, and lower ownership cost, than the American vehicles.


Gwall
said

I don't think you get it even in good times these manufacturers made pennies on the dollar but they do create a lot of tax payers which ultimately fuels the economy. They would have a better return on their investment if they liquidated and put the money in the bank, but they are too big to do that and the banks are now bust also. This is a difficult situation so don't be so quick to judge, these companies are big international organizations and do well in other markets they are just hurting now and they need our help. Please buy domestic.


Bonnie
said

Bailing out the auto industry was wrong from the get-go. They always operated under the assumption that they were getting a government hand so never tried to change their ways.
The only one getting rich was the head of the union.
If 95% unnemployment was a Bush thing, then that should have warned them to change their ways.
Every year they pumped out useless models that had to be changed the next year but didn't look to the future, even when the European vehicles came on the scene.
I hope that when Oboma takes office, he won't be long making the changes needed for the Environment.
Canada is alway waiting to see what the American's will do and we will follow. (except Mr. Dion)
I imagine the American's will use the empty auto plants to start making better automobiles with a cheaper work force.
Win, win for everyone.
Can't wait.
Mr. Oboma won't work well with Mr. Harper. One is Liberal and smart the other in Conservative and dumb.
The Conservatives are in their second term so who's causing the unemployment now.


RVH
said

To all levels of goverment, please do not give one single cent of tax payers money for an industry that will just waste it. PLEASE DON'T.


Change is needed yesterday for GM, Ford Chrysler
said

I worked in the auto industry for years. These manufacturers are still building the wrong products. They will go down building gas guzzling behemoths which cost consumers too much.

GM, Ford, Chrysler need to build cars like a Honda Civic, Ridgeline, Accord, Camry, Yaris, and a FEW crossovers. QUALITY and DURABILITY is the key as well as competitive pricing.

They need to focus on making the car LAST not crap out in 36 months right after the warranty like they do.

They need to educate their dealer network to be customer centric instead of being money grubbers willing to cheat a customer at the drop of a hat. (ie one dealer charged my 85 year old mother $27 each on two occasions to change a rear light bulb!!)




mark in bc
said

I thought we lived in Capitalist free enterprise system!!!

Work hard and smart/ make money. Don't work hard and smart/ lose money.

Works for Toyota and West Jet!!!

Maybe some of these big companies should go back to business school to get their smarts back and leave us lowly tax payers alone.


Bonnie
said

Should have said, if 95% Employment is a Bush thing....
Then you know it's not right.


Bob
said

You cannot pay the salaries they do and expect to compete in a world market. The elctronics industry went through this in the 70s and 80s .. How long has it been since you bought a TV set made in Canada ? If the unions will not reduce their expectations we will likely see the failure of one or more of the North American auto makers.


MIchael (Ottawa)
said

If what was said is true about $10,000 being the average per vehicle cost for labour and associated health costs then our workforce has priced themselves right out of the marketplace.

Honda Canada has a productive work force building a great product in Alliston Ontario and is prospering. GM, Ford need to go talk to Honda. Chrysler needs to go bankrupt they make junk worse than the other two.

I don't want another penny propping up an industry which refuses to bite the bullet and do what they need to do to build a high quality vehicle at a competitive price which consumers want and employ Canadians and Americans.

Gas mileage matters and NA manufacturers have the technology but they don't want to go there.

FINE, then go out of business. Honda hybrids are coming 'en masse'. Works for me.




Shamaro
said

This company like GM and Chrysler have failed to grasp the future when they were making nothing but gas guzzling vehicles.

When they should have seen that down the road, people were going to stop buying expensive oversized vehicles because of oil prices, they continued to churn out their gas guzzlers and now in a desperate attempt to get back in the game, a major recession, if not a depression has hit the economy.

This is a lack of vision by Ford's senior management and the board of directors who didn't take heed to the warnings. Now the middle class worker in this sector, both manufacturer and suppliers are going to be stung because of the failure of these greedy stubborn men.


Andy from Montreal
said

Foreign imports are the wave of the future. The writing has been on the wall since the last recession. But failure to recognize market shifts and over-reliance on a self-centred workforce rife with employees of entitlement has finally done Ford in. My tax dollar for your bad management? I don't think so. See you later Ford. ...

Stevie
said

GREEDY AUTO UNIONS ARE GETTING WHAT THEY DESERVE!!!

I have no sympathy whatsoever! They brought this on themselves!


DD from NS
said

...in the 1970s both foreign and domestic car manufacturers were forced to build vehicles with lower emission and gas standards. The same car manufacturers in North America that are whining today brought on loads of high priced lawyers in those 70s to fight those government regulated laws re: lower gas mileage/emissions. ....Sorry but I love my Toyota and will NOT buy North American. Looking at the domestic TV commercials last night my husband commented "They STILL don't get it, do they?" People don't want fancy this and fancy that, its mileage. Period!!


Labour unions must get realistic
said

CAW has been combative and while they got concessions they drove the industry costs so high they have now all but gone out of business.

We have essentially unskilled auto laborers making artificially high wages and benefits gained through union threats of shutdowns.

If the assembly line workers can triple their production and help make the companies profitable again then they can keep their high salaries but productivity hasn't kept pace with wages.

Unless the companies can make a profit they will need to shutdown. If labor is unwilling to help then forget it.




Pete in London
said

Most people will comment that unions and high wages killed the N.A. auto along with gas guzzling/low quality compared to imports. All a bit true but the bigger factors are these:
-The international trade took away thousands of good paying jobs overseas to China, India, Asia = Lesser and lesser good paid jobs here.
-Car safety standards,options and overall quality have made cars very expensive
-People are leasing more and more because of high prices.
-A car factory today, in high gear will output a new car every minute(60 per hour).


In a nutshell, there are many used vehicles from first term leases or trade ins and these cars, because of superior quality will last much longer. Throw in the fact that high paid jobs are getting scarce and you will start to get the picture.

In the 60's and 70's, cars were on average between $2000 to $8000 for a loaded Cadillac. They lasted 4 to 6 years. They were pretty much junkers after that.
Today you can't buy anything under $15,000 new and the high ends are $40,000 and up. Because of higher quality rust wise and advancements in electronics making the power trains go 1000's of km's more, people will hang on to their cars much longer and/or buy used if salaries and jobs are less and less secure.

Bottom line: high quality, high prices, lesser jobs and longer lasting cars are all contributing to the downsizing of the auto giants. Next in line will be the Toyotas and Hondas.

I predict we are going to go back to the much cheaper more basic cars that might last less but will provide a more stable industry. Those under $8,000 cars are already being produced in China as we speak.



Jass
said

Unions are job killers always have been always will be. $10,000 extra for a SUB par North American Car! Why would anyone buy?


Toyotas make junk
said

I have a 2004 Toyota Camry and it is for sale. Toyota has been FORCED TO RECALL this car 4 TIMES by Transport Canada. The car has been maintained by the book at the local Toyota Dealership and the car is unreliable in Saskatchewan winters. According to J.D. Power and Associates, the Fords and GM that directly compare to the Camry are of higher quality, cheaper and get comparable gas mileage.

I also had a 2000 Toyota Tacoma that Toyota had to buy back from me because of the frame rotted away making the truck unsafe to be on the road.

Can you guess why I am getting rid of my last Toyota and will NEVER consider one again.


Bob
said

Wade, if buying foreign cars kills 2 jobs, tough. If domestic car manufactures built to the quality of Toyota and Nissan etc, then maybe I would return to buying Domestic Autos.


Jason
said

TO BOB...

I guess you don't read any of the car magazines or look into who is winning awards. Because GM now wins far more Quality awards than Toyota or Honda. and by the way maybe you should look into the recalls that Toyota has had in the last 5 years and then let me know who has Quality cars!!


André B. St Catharines, Ontario
said

I don't believe in corporate welfare but we are now doing so to a certain extent to the banks & I see why the Big 3 are try to do the same. If they were to get taxpayers money I think there should be strings attached to it. First & foremost I believe if these workers want to keep there jobs they need to take a serious wage cut of about 20-25% & they still would be making a good wage & show that they want to make a sacrifice
as much as the taxpayer have to. There also has to be a guarantied number of jobs tied to the money.


KW
said

It seems to me that the automakers have done this to themselves. For a long time now, we have known that we need to have smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles, and yet the North American automakers have been putting out large SUV's and trucks, and not caring about the environment or the amount of oil reserves we have. They have fostered this dependency on larger vehicles and now when we're down to the wire, they're complaining and expecting a government bailout.

As I see it, they have the responsibility to lead the way in manufacturing vehicles that are safe and efficient, and to explore alternative technologies. Sadly, it seems that they did not focus on environmental realities, but simply on greed.


Corporate deadbeats whining again.
said

You don't have to work harder, just work smarter.

I don't want excuses, I want results.

There's a reason your businesses are failing: You're bad at business.




Why would I want to work for some crap corporation
said

that can't afford union-level wages?

Move to China if the only management technique you can muster is exploiting cheap labor.





Larry, Vancouver, BC
said

I watched a TV documentary recently about an Asian CEO of an airline company. Good times were at an end and the company was losing money. So this CEO cut his salary to be more in line with his workers, he lines up with his workers in the cafeteria, drives a cheaper car and is looking for other ways to cut the unnecessary costs. His company will survive the downturn in the economy!


Auto Industry Watcher
said

If there were Universal Health Care in the United States, GM and Ford would not be in trouble. The costs of insuring so many retired and current employees is staggering. As for those that think Ford and GM build junk, you need to pick up a copy of Consumer Reports, because that is simply no longer true. As for unionized workers, Toyota and Honda pay the same amount at their factories.


Kelly O
said

GET RID OF THE UNIONS! They are what have killed the Big 3.
On the other hand, I hear people saying that these companies should go green. Have any of you actually been paying attention to what they are doing in this regard? Ford is the leader in many alternative technologies. Take a look at the New York taxi fleet. 3/4 of it is Ford Escape hybrids now. Also Ford is the leader in hydrogen based tech.
As for reliability, I own a 2000 Focus and have not had 1 problem with this car. It gets great mileage, 53 miles per gallon on the highway and 41 in the city. I'm sorry but I don't see any Toyotas that are getting that other than their hybrids. I think many peopleout there are very brainwashed into thinking our products are inferior when in fact they are as good if not better than their Jap counterparts. I think people need to do a little more research before they go hacking our products here at home. And by the way, go look at the awards that were just handed out for 2009. Ford won 2 catagories, GM won 1 and Chrysler also on 1. That was just under half the awards. The Japanese makers only won 2 in total. Make educated decisions, don't be sheep!
Toyota's quality isn't what it used to be. I know many people who have been sucked in by that and are now dumping their Toys because they are falling apart! Even though your Toyota or any other foriegn brand may be built in North America, the money heads back to Japan or wherever, it doesn't stay here and help our economy.


Shawn - MTL
said

"...Eerytime someone buys a foreign car 2 jobs are lost in the economy forever.
How many people has your family put out of work?
"

So let me get this straight wade it is the fault of people like me who would rather have a quality, economical, dead reliable car that is killing auto jobs in Canada, well then I guess myself and my family have killed about 10 jobs so far. I drive a Honda why because they are amazing if domestic cars like GM, Ford, or Chrysler had cars they were better than Honda I would be driving one right now but domestics are crap. It isn't my fault that theses people are working for car companies that design crap


Blame it on your union!
said

If you seriously want to blame anyone here, blame the Auto Workers union. Even when top Mgmt said things are getting worst, you ignored them and wanted more $$$$$! It's your job to read the financail books and proceed accordingly to negotiate. I respect out manufacture workforce tremendously, they are the back bone on which this province runs, however when I see someone on the line raking in over $100 G's annually, something is wrong there. Unfortunetly these companies are going to go under unless they unite and start from scratch again.


Mary C in Calgary
said

They need to retrofit their plants for electric cars, yesterday. Japan has an H20 car in production that gets over 100 miles on one gallon of water, with no emissions. Tesla Motors in California has a one to two year wait list, and this is on a $100,000.00 vehicle. Quebec is smartly putting an electric car into production. I, nor my friends, are not willing to buy one more $35,000.00 dollar gas guzzling vehicle for city driving until an environmentally superior, fuel cheaper intelligent choice is made available. They have had decades to get with the future. If they don't get on it, they're dinosaurs. Period.


Jason
said

... killing the unions is not the answer... the non-unioized companies are only good companies to work for because unions made people safe in their work place and then the non-union companies followed suit and matched what the unions got for their workers.....

Evan from the GTA
said

Imports undercut jobs? ... Drive to cambridge and see for yourself! Canada has NO, I repeat, NO domestic auto manufacturer, it is in our benefit to be a producer of cars, regardless of the origin of the parent company. All this talk of imports killing the industry is just CAW propaganda that makes laid of workers, angry, upset, and WRONG.



Steve the Pundit
said

Hard to believe some of these comments. The truth is the reason the "Big 3" continued to build these big cars, trucks and SUV's is because WE DEMANDED THEM and WE BOUGHT THEM. It's the same reason that Toyota, Nissan, etc. all started building larger and larger cars and trucks (anybody seen a Toyota or Nissan pickup lately? Big and bloated like a Ford or a Chevy, just as we asked for).

The Big 3 didn't build small cars because we didn't buy 'em. Now, when gas prices go through the roof, we expect them to turn on a dime. Big manufacturing operations don't work that way.

None of this excuses the problems of poor reliability, excess union wage demands and lousy productivity that have plagued this industry (and many others in Canadian manufacturing) for years. Let's recognize that, while related, these are separate issues.

And for those that advocate letting these companies go under:
- get used to large government deficits due to sharply reduced taxes and increased EI payments
- get used to layoffs in other industries that depend on autos
- get used to reduced standard of living across the board as people can no longer afford to buy stuff and the economy grinds to a halt
- get used to drops in the value of your homes as former auto sector employees walk away from homes they can no longer afford.

Still OK with letting them sink?


What's a foreign car?
said

I drive a Nissan Altima, made in Smyrna, Tennessee.

The factory is not unionized, but it pays wages equivalent to the unionized factories.




PHEV GIRL
said

Ummm Hello...wakeup Big 3...can't you see nobody wants these big fancy gas guzzlers anymore:

1. The Environment
2. The Cost of Drive

They need to roll out mass production of affordable EVs and PHEVs NOW!


Ian in N.B.
said

Oh boo hoo, the auto workers are loosing their ridiculously high-paying jobs that they got right out of high school. They can complain all they want, while I spend thousands of dollars to get myself through college. The gravy train is over, time to hit the books and put some effort into it.

The death of the Blue Oval and Golden Bowtie can't come soon enough.


KM
said

Ever since I was a boy in the 1970's, I recall regularly reading stories of layoffs in the Ontario assembly plants, and I constantly wonder, why would anyone willingly enter such a volatile industry? Had I been the child of an auto worker, I would have spent my formative years doing everything in my power to ensure I NEVER followed in my father's footsteps.


Quality is job # 37
said

"As for those that think Ford and GM build junk, you need to pick up a copy of Consumer Reports"

I did and they chose Honda, Toyota Nissan.

North American cars have planned obsolescence which means they are built to break down instead of built to last. Who is kidding who here? Been there done that and had all the repairs bills to show for it.

Honda all the way now.
A cheap Honda is better than a new Cadillac or Lincoln quality wise or even Mercedes whose quality isnt so great anymore.



Simon Shaw
said

Unions are not the group to blame for the demise of the big 3 auto makers.

The problem lies with the removal of tariffs that protected the big 3 from foreign economies that pay their workers 3 cents an hour.

We cannot compete with China, Japan or India. Why would we want to? I like having a neighbour that can afford to buy a nice home and a cottage without having to have a university degree. Somewhere along the line, those of us with degrees, started believing that we are the only ones that should live with dignity, while those who work in the manufacturing side of our economy should live in squalor.


Jenna
said

I do not feel sorry for them one iota. Instead of being prudent, they flew high when times were good. They gave in to outrageous union demands, paying out health benefits and excessive pensions. Their executive compensation packages stretched to the ends of the universe. They are in the business of making vehicles, not all paying benefits and pensions. They dug their own grave. I'm glad I don't live in Ontario or the USA anymore, or I'd be spitting nails if my tax dollars went to prop up these losers (of course, the guvvermint will probably see to it that we all chip in). Let them fail and fall, nobody is buying their products anyways. I hope they all go down into the abyss, never to return. Others will take their place. This is capitalism: some succeed, others fail. Socialism is bailing them out time and time again. How much of taxpayers' money have they been given up to this point? This is ridiculous. Let them go bankrupt. Maybe it's time we rewarded companies that are doing well instead of always bailing out the losers. Let them learn their lesson. There's not enough money for all these whiners, so no more funding or grants or loans or bailouts - nothing!!


Vince M
said

After a lifetime of buying domestic I tried Japanese two vehicles ago. I will never, never go back to a domestic automobile.

I mostly blame the auto workers union for pay awards terribly out of whack based on the educational level of the employees.

So here we are today. Poorly manufactured automobiles noone wants made by workers noone can afford.


Helene
said

I am a person who doesn't feel back for the Big 3 either. They dug themselves into this whole by not getting with the times. The Japanese car makers decided long ago that fuel efficient vehicles were a priority and only in the last year has the Big 3 tried to move in this direction.
Oh and by the way, the comment from Wade that "Everytime someone buys a foreign car 2 jobs are lost in the economy forever" - not sure where you live, but the Japanese have plants here - Toyota is even building a new one out in Woodstock; so you're confused with your information. Nevermind the fact that ANY car can be built anywhere - the only way you can tell is the VIN on your vehicle - the first digit tells you that (my car knowledge).
It all comes down to the fact that the Big 3 have always been behind the times and they pay their unionized workers an absurd amount of money that they can't afford to lower their prices.
No one should have to bail them out. Unfortunately, this will equate to big losses, but they dug their own hole.



Al
said

Want to see the global economy REALLY tank, allow the Detroit 3 to go bankrupt.The cost would be huge! Think of the U.S government taking on the pension liabilities of all 3 companies, you think the war in Iraq is expensive...


Doug in SWO
said

a few thoughts...
-$10,000 per vehicle sounds right. I read where there are more non-working (retirees)people on GM's payroll than people actually working in a plant.
- a friend of mine (early 1980's) worked for GM and was laid off regularly at up to 75% of his regular wage (combination of EI and GM I guess)
- the days of the "union" making the work place safe is long gone. Unions are resting on their laurels of 50 - 60 years ago.
- high paying, low skilled jobs to those who are fortunate enough to join and follow a union's doctrine makes no business sense - but unions (membership) don't concern themselves with that because someone (highly paid union exec) will pout and stomp and cry to management until they get their way. - they (union) call that negotiating)
- I wonder what wages would look like if union members were forced to negotiate their own pay - like the majority of working Canadians
- let's have the companies offer union workers $12.00 per hour and see who agrees?
- Unions today - good for what?


joe
said

I go along with JP.There should be no bailout let the supply and demand take care of itself


dave
said

Unions are not totally wrong in what they did and do but the companies have to bear much of the blame because they caved to the ridiculous demands. When I get layed off I didnt expect to be bought out and now this practise is the main problem for the big 3. It is not that we have inneficient workers bur GREEDY workers. Big 3 workers can buy or lease their vehicles for next to nothing give me a break. Give them a discount but not give away the vehicles. For every 3 or 4 vehicles leased or bought by a employee is one car or truck lost in the inventory what a shame, where did these executives come from anyway?


Don from Calgary
said

I bought my Dodge in 04 because a family member in Windsor helped build it. But after the early problems we had, family loyalty will not play a part in my next auto decision. Build a better machine and make it affordable.


Pete
said

Workers at the big 3 have no choice but to slash their wages. I don't support a government (i.e. taxpayers) bailout to keep these workers earning $85/hr in wages, benefits and pension.

Maybe when times improve, they can earn those top dollars again but these days they need to make sacrifices in order to survive.



RVH
said

I don't think GM or Ford build junk (although not as great as over seas vehicles) These vehicles are not fuel effiecient to meet the times we live in. Thats one of the biggest things. If GM and Ford would build more fuel efficient and a solid hybrid they would'nt be in this mess.


dave
said

pretty tough to feel sorry for a company that despite long term indications of financial unviability continued to pay out bonus money and perks.

long term employment practice for both executive and employees, along with questionable investment return on very upbeat earning projections over the past decade, along with continuing blindly to produce antiquated product of questionable quality by old methodologies. all round, a less than strategic business model.




Alex (Toronto)
said

Let's blame the unions for Asian protectionism and consumer greed. It's the unions' fault that gas prices have gone up, making the cars that were being bought up six months ago now sit on lots. If we dump tens of thousands of workers on the streets, that will only affect the unions, not the companies, vendors, customers, communities, and governments those workers work for, with, or in. Really.

Every large exporter needs help surviving the financial crisis. There is nothing special about car companies. They are first in line because they are the biggest exporters. The government needs to develop policies to help companies survive the crisis; there is no special requirement for or from car companies, except from their size. Canada's car companies need finance to be able to export cars and components; it's not like people aren't buying cars. It's true that the demand for certain types of cars has changed suddenly, but that change didn't come from the car companies and wasn't anticipated so quickly by anyone.

Japan has a lot of non-tariff barriers preventing good North American cars from getting market share in Japan. We need to get past the Conservative anti-union rhetoric and avoid this devil-take-the-hindmost attitude when a destructive wave is coming. Conservatives don't seem to understand that most jobs don't magically happen without companies and finance. Tax cuts only help people who have jobs.


Mary C., Calgary
said

Unions had their place and served a past function fairly well. No one minded auto workers making a good living wage when the plants had a viable product and were profitable. The market is changing, and as in any business, Auto makers need to embrace new ways and technology, or they will and should become the eight-track tape. Are we still typing in MS Dos to surf the net? No. Newer and better technology reigns. Build it and they will come. The EV1 Electric car leases were selling like hotcakes in California in the 90's, but unknown powers killed it. There were more profits to be squeezed from the existing infrastructure. Now to 2008: Canadians ought to trailblaze and become the auto maker of the future. Mark my words; someone will make amazing returns from the new breed of vehicle, and when they do, misplaced
blame on unions who were simply trying to get a better deal for workers back when the big three were pulling in money hand over fist will fade with the exciting promise of state of the art wheels. I can't wait.


Kelly Spongberg
said

Survival of the fittest. Simple.


Beverly - Lethbridge
said

We are an independent automobile repair service provider. If we do not provide the best to our clients they go elsewhere.

Can't see why GM and Ford don't understand this basic concept of business. Build a better, more reliable vehicle and you will retain consumer loyalty.

Keep following the same patterns as in the past and you will lose your market share.

Protectionism is ALWAYS trumped by family economics.


Chris
said

I did the math.

I counted all comments. Here is the result.

87% say for the big 3 to start making reliable vehicles.

The rest still defend the big 3.

Honda manufactures in Canada and the people take their money home to spend local.

IT all does not go to Japan.

When we say big 3 Ford is no longer on that list so be careful.

My advice is for the domestic guys to re-proove their quality.

I have GM and jsut bought Honda. The Gm cost me to much to maintain.


Margaret
said

I don't think a government bailout is the answer. They, the Big 3 need to cut back on many things, for example, giving a large bonus to their executives at year end. I'm sure if you could go back 5 years and take back the bonuses that were handed out, you would have millions of dollars to re-invest back into the company.
Unfortunately, what happens to the Big 3 plays a big part in the economy in Ontario.
People forget about the small companies that supply GM, Ford and Chrysler. They are certainly not paying top wages to their employees and usually have very strict budget controls.

They are the companies and the people that will be affected the most if things do not improve...

I don't know what the answer is, but the Big 3 need to take a step back and check out reality.......they cannot continue to operate as if they have all the money in the world!



Leave unionized workers alone
said

As 1 out of every 9 jobs in Canada is more or less related to the auto industry, there is no question that we need auto manufacturing in Canada. If the big three are going down, it is certainly not the fault of the unions who where detrimental to better wages and security and respect in the plants and provided my father with a well paid and secure job for most of his life.Times are changing and so must the big 3. If people stop buying SUV's and V8's, they will stop manufacturing them and come up with a product in line with 21st century needs, not keep feeding us the car myth from the 50's they've built their companies on. The normal folks working on assembly lines have will unfortunately be the first ones to pay for the lack of vision of north american car manufacturers.


W in Oshawa
said

The debate between 'domestic' and 'foreign' is really no longer correct. Honda, Toyota, Hyundai all make vehicles in NA and the "big 3" build vehicles overseas. The unions have not assisted the situation; however, the other manufacturers do pay comparable wages. The regular front line employees trying to provide for their families are the ones who are suffering the consequences of upper management's inability or unwillingness to move forward. Who decided that these people deserve their wages and have they taken pay cuts?

Also, while I do not agree with governments bailing out these companies, the government is partly to blame for the wages the unions are demanding. Housing, utilities, taxes, the cost of everything keeps increasing. If city councillors, MPPs and MPs get huge increases, why shouldn't the regular people? Besides, when the wages of these employees go up, so do the tax revenues.

From other comments, it seems that we should exploit our workers and return to turn of the 20th century labour practices. Maybe then people will realize that cheaper usually means imported from somewhere with poor labour standards and lower standard of living for the average person.


msamour
said

The problem affecting these two companies are complex. First, the price of oil in the summer went above what was possible for people to pay. Second, North American car conpanies have refused to build smaller engines anf smaller cars, or to seriously invest in battery/hybrid technology. Third, the credit/derivative crisis affects everyone, thus reducing the ability to buy a new vehicle.
They are now paying the effect for their poor choice of infrastructure investment.


Richard
said

Maybe we can create our own vehicle company in Canada? What a concept.. non-union, low cost, fuel efficient cars that are suitable for Canadian driving conditions.

Why not I ask?


Dennis EDM
said

Again the big 3 and the union do not get it WE DON'T BUY JUNK and THAT IS WHAT YOU BUILD, I buy only Japan's cars as I can't get a good car and WARRANTY service / life from the big 3 NA manufacture's at 60,000 they start to decay and at 160,000 they go to the junk yard, Japanese cars are still going strong and at 300,000 your are starting to get into to repairs like engine or transmission. Build someting that will last and not nickle & dime me to death and I'll come back but till then go to H%()


RTL
said

I strongly agree with a lot of the comments made here, with regards to the poor quality of cars made by the Big Three. I got "burned" once and will never buy one again. These folks really need to start focusing on good quality, low fuel consumption, nice design and reasonable price. Without it they can go out of business - I will not care!


nc
said

I have been educating myself about free market economies and all the different theories from libertarianism to anarcho capitalism. These people who are eager to espouse these theories must feel a redness in their face.
After years of govts. allowing to let these theories play out. Less taxes, smaller govts. deregulation etc. I will admit in some cases the govt. of the day made some bad choices in either promoting these theories or becoming a consequential player in this mess.
I find it hard to feel empathy for these denizon of lessez faire free markets.
Here they are going to capital states with woe is me and please "Sir can I have some more soup"
I think the govts. must help out (Tax payers are paying for this mess) in order to save the state.
If all of these organization were allowed to just die. The tragedy felt by the state would be gargantuan.
So we have tried these theories. Let us now go to a place of a more balanced ideas. Where each plays their part, the businessman and the worker and the govt.


GL in Montreal.
said

GM is suffering from their own demise. They are losing their market shares in the last 10 years steady to foreign car manufacturers because of their quality issues. How DARE they use this financial crisis as an excuse to get bailout?

Had they not kill the electric car over 30 years ago and keep improving the technology, they will for sure be ahead of everyone in the industry. They didn't have vision to produce product with leading technologies and with good quality. Now they ended up have to play catch-up with competitors. Sorry, being big alone does not deserver to be bailed-out.

Our tax dollars should go well-deserved businesses that address customers' needs with innovative products. Those business will and should thrive and will also bring in quality jobs for everyone.


Nanook
said

MY HYUNDAI ROCKS!


Anne R
said

to all those people who say don't give them one red sent, I say have fun joining them on the picket line. If GM, Ford and chrysler go under that is a lotttttt of people out of work. So lets think about it, no high paid auto workers keeping our economy going and soon we will be in the same position as the US.
The reality is either you help bail them out or you will be paying a ton of ei payments to workers who have lost their jobs.


Robin the Hood
said

To accuse foreign company products of causing unemployment is false and shows a basic lack of understanding of how trade works. The US car companies are simply uncompetitive and run by corrupt, greedy executives who care more about their bonus package than about the company itself. Toyota, nissan and Honda - among others - also have plants here and higher quality jobs which is a result of better run companies. If it were not for all the jobs that would be lost I would say let the 3 sink and allow for better run companies fill in the void. Allot would improve if only there were more restrictions and regulation of exec. pay and compensation in N. America! Jobs are only as secure as the economy is and the quality of the company.




Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Fat. Bloated. Lazy. Inefficient. Foolish. Too bad; so sad. Shape up or finally die.

The "Big Three" have been on a self-destructive course for decades now. Arguably, were it not for the nationalistic sentiments of countless North Americans, GM, Ford, and Chrysler would already be bankrupt. Along with our tax dollars, they've been taking us for a ride for a long time.

Spare me any lecture about an industry quality award here or there. The Japanese and Germans have been making superior vehicles for eons. Everybody knows it.

CYNICAL ARMCHAIR PREDICTION(S):

After receiving money from the U.S. government, GM will go bankrupt and cease to exist. (The Corvette division will be successfully sold.) Chrysler will then go bankrupt (possibly while tied to the same life preserver as GM) and cease to exist. Ford will go bankrupt, and then partner with a foreign automaker just to keep old Henry's name alive.

Good luck, UAW.

NOTE TO OTTAWA:

Keep your hand out of my back pocket. I don't want one more dollar of my tax money going to these turkeys. They've been trying to convince us, for years, that if they only had just a little more money they could turn things around. Time's up. We're done.


Teresa, London
said

NO MORE BAILOUTS FOR ANY INDUSTRY
I have 2 questions for the Big 3 automakers.
Why were you not able to read market trends and adapt?
I'm sure there are several well paid executive postitions within your organizations that seen this coming.
Second question for these manufacturers, who have posted profits for more years than I have really been concered about the economy. How was a SMALL independent Canadian company able to obtain technology, design and manufacture a NON-Fossil Fuel using vehicle right here in Canada? This company seen an emerging market, & took the initiative to start manufacturing a product to meet the demand. Anyone every heard of the ZENN Motor Company? LOOK IT UP AND ASK YOUR MP AND MPP WHY WE CAN'T DRIVE THESE CANADIAN MADE VEHCILES IN MOST OF CANADA.


Carling (Ottawa)
said

We've owned several GM, Ford and one Chrysler van over the years. The worst was the Chrysler van followed by a Ford Mustang and GM was better but still nowhere near as good quality as the Honda's we have had - NOT EVEN CLOSE!

A few years ago we traded a Mercedes C class due to the poor frequency of repairs for a Honda Accord EX sedan V6 and leather. The Accord is much better quality and never disappoints unlike the Benz which was always in the shop ripping us off time and again even for a simple oil change. No more!

Quality and reliability is paramount and if the Big 3 want to survive they need to offer a better product as well as service. I suggest they go study what Honda is doing.




P IN OSHAWA
said

I myself have previously worked in the automotive sector for almost 10 years. I liked the high wages I was recieving for working in these union shops. I can tell you first hand that the skill level needed to do this job is worth not much more than minimum wage. I had a saying, "I am leaving my brain in my lunchpail, as so I do not destroy it on the floor". Wake up GM employees!!! the ride is over! Do like many of us laid-off workers have done, go back to school, get an education, get a job!! I have a mortgage, car loan, and other expenses like everyone else. I did it, and you can too. Stop whining and man-up!You should have saved all the money you were making, and stopped going on 4 vacations/year, buying all the toys. Hungry? out of work? eat you GM product!


exAmericanGal
said

The global economy is going to tank regardless. What we are seeing is just the start. What's to say that a bailout will even work? GM burned through $1 billion per month in its second quarter '08 - has that even helped? It just prolonged the agony. When the bailout is gone they'll be squawking for more and more and more, it won't end. A failure might be just the shock Detroit needs to smarten up and turn things around and learn to actually compete with Toyota, etc. You can't keep bailing everybody out.


Janet, Mississauga
said

The big picture: Volvo 18-wheeler rig production in Europe had orders for over 41,000 rigs in the fall of 2007 and only 155 this fall. This is way bigger than what is going on in our immediate backyard, it is a world-wide economic pandemic contracting so viciously that it will be remembered as a generational event. No one will escape the whirlwind.


Anne Ottawa
said

I still have my 1995 Honda Accord. It has been a dream car and I would buy one again in a second when it starts costing me money. Fortunately I got it Krowned every year so it has no rust on it either. If the car wont go there is a major problem like a dead battery or something, never silly mechanical glitches that shouldnt go wrong in the first place. I would never buy a NA car again. Japanese all the way. You cant argue with the quality that goes into them, that is the thing. I have never talked to anyone who had a recently made Japanese made car that was a lemon. Not only are the GM cars problematic, they are not cheap. These days you want a car that will last because you dont want to replace it every two years or spend major money on repairs.


Susan
said

GM in Oshawa used to use the slogan "Buy what your neighbour builds"....unfortunately people started to buy imports because it may have saved them a little money on the purchase price....Canadians are loyal only to themselves where as the Chinese and Japanese people are loyal to their country. We are selfish. Also, governments should increase taxes/tariffs on any imported vehicle to increase their sticker price to encourage Canadians to buy North American made vehicles.


fred in pickering.
said

In my experience chrysler have made great cars ,i still have my 2000 neon 195,000 and nothing except brake pads.People just love to jump on the bandwagon and curse domestics.I see loads of toyotas and overpriced hondas in for repair.Ps i didn,t have to pay extra for the floor mats either !Chrysler forever.


Lindsay
said

Hi Wade:
I have tried to warn fellow Canadians/family etc. regarding buying imports and not supporting our North American Manufacturers for years.
Wouldn't it be a hoot if now they are all taxed for the bail-outs they have caused.
Of course, we will all suffer with them.
Too little.....too late now!



Dave - MTL
said

"Wade: Buying a foreign care kills 2 jobs
At the Democratic convention I attended in Denver when Obama won the nomination the parking lot was filled with imports.
Eerytime someone buys a foreign car 2 jobs are lost in the economy forever.
How many people has your family put out of work?"

My family drives Hondas and Nissans, and neither of us have put people out of business because my Honda is made Ohio and my nissan was designed in California and built somewhere in the U.S



MuskyBuck
said

I think the fallacy of the entire story is the notion that these 'Big 3' are in the business of selling vehicles.

Henry Ford was the creator of an idea that didn't quite end the way it was started.

He envisioned transportation uniting a country. He's known for being a person who cared very much for his fellow man, as well as the idea of producing low cost vehicles to pave the way.

Today's 'Big 3' are a bloated, gorged, slow and sickly version of Henry Fords' vision.

There are only a few in these companies that know what type of business they really do, they are the most wealthiest.

People need to see these 'Big 3' as a dynasty of money more than a tradional business.

For example my business and a lot of others recieve no breaks or subsidizing. My business works because I care about my customers and what I am attempting to sell and promote.

I get no bailouts and I shouldn't. I'm a business, it works based on my values.

The values shown by the 'Big 3' clearly show a need for profits, money for all shareholders and those above them.

It's time for these tainted dinosaurs to die and a new species to take their place, provide eco-economy friendly employment and practices.

Keeping these old dogs alive with money injections will only stave off the inevidable.

And progress needs to have them die off.


HB
said

I would LOVE to buy American cars but my experience with them has been horrible. I had a GM which I had to take to the mechanic way too often and it rusted away and believe me, we take care of our cars. I own a Nissan Quest now and one day, while I left it at the dealer's for a tune-up, I rented a GM minivan and hated it. Why would I pay the same amount of money for an inferior vehicle? If they improve the quality, I will be the first one to go back to domestic vehicles. I cannot buy a car thinking only of other people's jobs (although it hurst when they lose them), I have to buy thinking of my investment. I work hard too, you know?


LL from Brantford
said

I've read all (at this time) 74 comments and I have to weigh in here. For my auto purchase in early 08 I looked at all comparable products from most of the manufacturers. GM had the best warranty and at 0% lease I can't really go wrong. This foreign is best concept is mostly myth. That being said GM has to dig deep and be smarter yet.


Matt
said

Everyone is feeling the pinch of the declining auto market.

I think GM is starting to get it. They're making very competitive vehicles, and selling them at good prices, my new Malibu stacks up very well against the competition.
I didn't expect it to beat out my original first choice (Altima, also assembled in the US)

Most of the vehicles sold in North America are built in North America. The product is getting better, and the unions are sometimes being a bit more reasonable.
I don't think it is going to be easy, but the auto industry can definitely recover.

As far as a leaning towards import brands, I still share a bit of it, and I think it is a bit of a holdover from decades of uncompetitive overpriced product. I think it will just take some time for people to realize that those days are over.


D in Chatham
said

Doesn't anybody get it?
GM will never be gone. It may be rearranged, separated or it may shrink to accomodate lower sales but GM will never be gone. Our governments (USA and CAN) will never allow so many people to be out of work at the same time. We are not just talking about people directly employed by GM. There are the people that make to parts GM uses and the service industry that these workers use. GM's demise will affect so many more than those employed directly by GM. If so many people are out of work then the tax base will shrink significantly. The gov't will never allow that.


Paul in BC
said

It should be remembered all vehicles bought and sold in Canada are foreign. There are no Canadian cars.

Honda Canada has just opened another huge plant in Ontario. Their civics are made in Canada so they are 100% Canadian and fuel efficient. I recently purchased one of these Canadian made cars. So if you purchase a "foreign" car it is likely made in Canada too. Remember all repairs are made in Canada as are all the sales teams.


Steve in Montreal
said

If I lose my job and a union worker lose their job, which will an employer hire? The one with the education that can adapt and bring ideas to the table that's who.
Unions will join the big 3 in the same scrape heap.


Trevor Wade
said

To Wade: Buying a foreign car.
People might not have bought imports had THE BIG THREE woke up and smelled the coffee years ago. No, GM wanted to build the Camaro. A muscle car. So, we should buy a GM and not a Toyota so we can keep the BIG 3 happy and prosperous? They can only look in the mirror at what has happened. I hope the US never bails them out.

Vince M
said

Susan... "Buy what your neighbour builds".

They build "Japanese" vehicles in Canada and the US. I am buying what my neighbour builds.


BB in B.C.
said

Here's some thoughts on the subject from a retired (import) car dealer.
1. The domestics will need a club to hit the sheeple over the head with to convince them that North American quality is on par with imports.....or wait another 20 years for it to sink through the thick skulls of some import fans.
2. When the big corporations have had enough of trying to survive in North America they pick up and move to where they can. That really helps us doesn't it?
3. I bought into an import franchise in 1987 thinking the auto industry had to embrace small fuel efficient vehicles. I sold out in 1999 after watching all the manufacturers build bigger, faster, more horse power, more useless expensive features year after year because that's what the public wanted.
4. I'm still driving my 1995 GM truck because I need a truck and the one I have runs flawless.
5. Real estate sales people get paid way more than union workers for far less work.


Anthony
said

No amount of public money is going to help if the same people will be running the company and keep on building idiotic cars, like their large SUV's. That, along with ever more demanding labour unions for higher pay and benefits is what the rest of us will now have to pay for as taxpayers! Feel sorry for them ? NO !


Ian Ottawa
said

We paid more than 10K more for comparable cars in the H.S. They made massive profits in the past and Buzz Hargrove bad mouthed Steven Harpers Conservatives and as far as I'm concerned he can whine all he wants but forget handouts from the Federal Government. The Company should have planned for this rainy day.


VIip
said

Here are car makers that have been building tanks instead of cars for easy profit. Merge two of inefficient companies with no vision and you get a twice as inefficient company. Detroit won't be around much longer. and nobody will miss it.


Inge - Toronto
said

I was the unlucky owner of a Grand AM that from day one never really worked all that well. The front brake pads had to be changed every 6000 km and what really irked me was that GM told me it was because I was a woman driver. I've had a Honda Civic for the last 7 years and drove this car for more than 5 years before the front brake pads needed changing. Love my Honda and will never, never buy another GM product again.


Wayne Mufree
said

I'm glad I got the sweetheart deal from the old north plant in Oshawa.


Jay, Ottawa
said

I'd rather buy a Honda built in Ontario than a Ford built in Mexico.


Alan
said

It's time to get the big three outta here once and for all. Auto sector workers will have to put up and shut up.


yoshi
said

Now with the oil price lower than 85 cents in some part of Canada. Does the car industry goes back up? Blames all that you can, but it's lack of innovation of North American made cars.


MW 1 from Windsor Ont.
said

The cost of labor on a vehicle is on average $1500.
It costs Toyota and Honda relatively the same. The big difference between the US and the Hondas and Toyotas is they have no legacy costs. No one has retired from any of their plants, yet.(they are all relatively new to N.A.)
I listened to John McCain tell the people of Michigan that he drove an American car. How strange it was to see him drive away after the election in his new Toyota.
Some of you people may want to be carefull what you wish for. The price of Labour may just go way down for EVERYONE. That is what our leaders want. They will be ok. Will the rest of us??


Pat
said

If there is to be a government bailout of the auto industry they must require that wages and benefits be cut so that the North American auto makers can be competitive. There is no point in bailout if they are just propping up bloated wages. It would be temporary at best


Matt
said

Paul from BC,
The assembly plant is only a small part of a car.
Components and design work are globally sourced.
There just aren't mass production vehicles with a single country of origin.

Automotive is a very global industry.


Les in Kitchener
said

How about consolodating Ford, Gm and Chrysler and calling it The Big Three Automobile company. Hire workers at 15 dollars and hour and make cars that people want and put a little effort into making them last.
Hell, they can't do any worse.


my take on this
said

About 12 years ago I delivered a suv frame to a big 3 body shop in the Edmonton area. I asked how long it would take to assemble the vehicle from top to bottom. I was told 70 hours. If you figure the auto workers are charged out at $100 dollars an hour this would ad $7,000 to most any vehicle. A fully loaded one ton costs about $60,000. I'm not to sure the auto workers are the only ones who should be to blame.


Brian
said

Hey Wade those "imports" are made here in Canada. Unless your talking Mercedes and BMW of course. But those account for a smidgen of the overall vehicle sales that you most likely refer to as imports. Toyota, Nissan, etc. all build here in NA.


Angus
said

I keep hearing the phrases "Japanese", "North American", "Domestic". Hate to inform a lot of people but Honda, Toyota and many other companies that originated in other countries are providing many high paid factory jobs in North America as a whole also. So buying "foreign" is not necessarily putting people out of work.


Greg - Signs and Wonders
said

How come unions aren't asking it's members to take a pay cut? Show you care and take a few bucks less an hour. The opposite to that is NO bucks an hour.

Step up Union, Step up Membership.


Ian- AB
said

Dont get this GM and FORD are domestic; but somehow Honda and Toyota are foreign. Umm folks Honda and Toyota both have plants in Canada. Infact; the Toyota plant just went through a expansion. I live in AB and I know this. By the way GM and FORD are just as foreign as Toyota. Unless you consider Canada to be the same country as the USA? As for the bailouts.. if this govt goes fascist and bails out industry... watch pitch fork sales rise sharply. Free market folks... not fascism (corporate socialism). If you lose your job find a new one or go back to school and get a new skill.


JP Basher
said

Jp You are out of touch with the current crisis. I believe Toyota is slashing, and cutting, as well. I am A Ford worker and I will put our products up against Toyota on quality and fuel economy on eac others vehicle classes This Issue is much deeper than what you are saying. Also to say we don't do physical work? I would love you to come do my job for A day! Only then you may tell me how easy it is! Only the misinformed, and bitter people complain about others wages. All these CEO's are the ones who are over payed. Not me or any other auto worker. Also you should feel sad when anyone loses there job especially if they have famalies and mortgages to pay for.


Pip
said

Quite a few comments here about the $10K just to pay pensions and benefits. However, there is no talk about the differential between management and worker salaries in either the companies (Big 3) or unions.

If a senior management automatically gets a bonus of several hundred thousand dollars - or even several millions - regardless of performance, is that reasonable business practice? If that senior manager earns several million per year, what is the differential compared to the person who actually makes the vehicles? Why is it that senior management feel they are worth 40 or 50 times the money of the workers? And how does that differential work out for union members and union bosses? Given the lack of planning on the part of the managers (producing gas-guzzlers when the market was turning to gas misers, bomuses or inflated salaries seem to be the wrong approach. Don't blame the line worker for building what incompetent managers decree.

Maybe look at those differentials to curb some of the costs. Maybe fire the incompetents.




Kathy from Bowmanville
said

Just remember...those so called "lazy,overpaid,under educated auto workers" pay high bracket income tax,property taxes for their big homes and spent their big pay cheques in all your communities to keep everybody else working...Not so funny now, is it?


I'm from Missouri......
said

Mary C in Calgary
"They need to retrofit their plants for electric cars, yesterday. Japan has an H20 car in production that gets over 100 miles on one gallon of water, with no emissions."

I think you are reading too much fluff on the 'net about buying a converter system that will allow you to run your car on water....another proven rip-off!

I can find NOTHING about any vehicle running on water at the rate of 100 mpg,unless the water is converted into Hydrogen first.

Please be accurate if you are going to post


AndyL
said

Thank you to the labor unions for having created a large un-skilled highly paid, un-employed workforce.

And Mr Obama has pledge to make them even stronger. Guess in the future I will have to buy an import, since there will no longer be American made cars.


KJ in Kingston Ontario
said

It is a lot more complicated than wishing people would buy an inferior or perceived inferior product to support their nation (or the USA) in autos it's all one inustry. The lower wage cycle is not the way to improve sales -- Henry Ford knew that 100 years ago when he decided to pay his workers enough that they could buy his cars and not the least amount possible. The leadership has been sadly lacking for 20 years here and you don't fix that in a month.


Cutting wages of auto company workers
said

will mean cutting prosperity for businesses patronized by those workers whose standard of living will be diminished.

Congratulations, you've been punked.




Tony
said

Remember long ago when the VW beetle was introduced. I thought it was outrageously tacky and the old one was much better. But people bought into it. It's called marketing!!! This is capitalism at work and it's gone hyperactively global. I have no problem in the idea of buying domestic or foreign. Unfortunately, after many attempts, I lost too much money on the domestic. This is the reality! This is what the Big Three are not addressing!


Treenton,Ontario
said

I have just read most of the comments and have to agree with some of them.For example...The Workers/Unions have asked for far too much.One comment posted was from a person who had previously worked in the Automotive Industry for 10 years and said he/she left their brain in their lunchpail,when they went to work.The Big 3 cant compete when their workers make more ,more and more money for a job that doesnt require much Education or skill.If these workers lose their jobs they will wish they had saved some money,give up their toys ,fancy houses and 3 or 4 fancy vacations.I suspect that many of these workers dont know what its like to support a family on 1 Income ,and a Low Income at that. Maybe they will have to make a few sacrifices like many other people do.In addition,the Big 3 are paying Pensions and other benefits to Retired Personnel.Another person commented that Honda,Toyota,etc have not crossed that bridge yet.I also agree with another comment,which stated that the Government should not give them any more Bailout money.They will take it,run and end up closing anyway,There are other jobs out there,not necessarily paying as well,but they are there .Join the Military,go West like everyone else, or give up living the high lifestyle. I am not against the Big 3,I have driven them all .Cars are cars, and the Big 3 didnt keep up with the times when Toyotas,.Hondas,etc,came to North America.I am also not unsympathetic ,I dont like to see anyone lose their income,however,Bailing them out is not the answer.Let them threaten closure and call their bluff.If they close workers will just have to retrain or whatever and move on


Shan
said

This is what happens when unions are allowed to run rampant. Increased salaries means less competitiveness, less sales for companies, and more jobs outsourced from our economy. We need to level the playing field.


Brian Childerhose
said

I work at the south plant in Oshawa, and it is sad that all the jobs that are being lost here in Canada. People don't realize that good paying jobs in the auto sector keeps everyone employed. I make good money and I spend good money in the community. 300 million dollars a year comes from that plant in taxes, so really its not tax payers dollars it us reinvesting in our indusrty. And anyone who say that we don't work hard have obviously never set foot in a factory. Try building 550 cars a day everyday and you tell me if its not hard work!. Buying domestic keeps our economy going and buying imports keeps costing jobs. I hope people realize that the auto industry is what keeps these communities going and if we keep losing these good paying jobs many other people are going to lose there jobs regardless of where you work.


DJKoop
said

There are many that think the big 3 are the only NA cars. Wrong again. Toyota is also made in NA and creates a lot of jobs. To check on quality all you need to do is check used car section of consumer reports. That will tell all.

Delbert
Manitoba


A proud autoworker
said

I can't believe some of these ignorant comments.One thing I DO believe,people that talk trash about autoworkers brand themselves as bitter, overly educated,unfulfilled folks that took the wrong courses in college and couldn't get hired by GM,Ford or anyone else that paid people for the work they do,simply because of their arrogance.I once had an academic type look down her nose at me and said"My husband has a degree so he only has to work with his mind instead of his hands."My reply was "How unfortunate!We autoworkers are completely capable of using both."It shows most people are still clinging to their archaic notions and biases.If you've never worked full-time for an auto manufacturer,you couldn't possibly have any idea what it's like.Cars are built a lot differently than they were 25 yrs.ago when someone put nut "A" on bolt"B".Trust me,they earn every nickle!Oh,BTW,direct labor costs are only 5% of the total cost of a vehicle.Electronic environmental technology built into each vehicle is where the money is.I'll also bet you didn't know the average auto now has more computer power than was used on the Apollo moon shot.


Barney In Oshawa
said

Wake up people. What are you going to say when they start to outsource YOUR job, or give your job away to a company overseas. If you think you are in an Industry or trade that this will not hapen to, you better think again. I worked in the Oshawa car plant and there are NO easy jobs. It is a fast paced rat race, and not for an aging workforce. Also those people that bark about how good their import cars are should tell the truth. The cost to repair those Imports is absolutely outragoeus, and they rust out faster than domestic.


Bob AB
said

Union and Coporate greed have virtually destroyed the Noth American Auto industry. I feel for the individual families of the persons who have lost or are about to lose their jobs. Do I feel sorry for the corporations who failed to react to change or the unions whose only thought was to squeeze big business for more --- naaaa. They have successfully killed their golden goose.


Kelven
said

If tax cut can really save job then U.S wouldn't have one of the highest unemployment in it's history. Anyone who argues corperate tax cut will keep job in place just take a look at the U.S economy, Bush has been cutting tax through his term and yet U.S is in a recession. The problems are the big 3 sitting back while Toyota and Honda continue to offer better products and new innovations. Secondly, is high wages demand from the union. When your company is making money then in resonable to ask for higher wages but if your company is losing money then one must make some concession or lose your job, ther is no way for any company to continue operate in the red. It simple as that. I just don't see why my tax dollar to continue supporting the auto maker when it's not working and continue to support auto worker continue to earn high wage while I live pay cheuque to pay chegue.


Jim
said

There is no doubt the auto industry is important to Canada and the USA BUT, where does all the profit go when they make it?

GM is the largest car company in the world, with people in every sector of the world. For them to say they could NOT foresee the coming economic situation tells me they are either incompetent or they do not have there eyes open at all. At this point, I think I prefer the latter.

These companies, when they are making profit, squander it, that is NOT good business. Have they no idea about what my grandparents called a "rainy day"?

Instead of FOLLOWING the market, with their big trucks and SUV's, the "NOT SO" big three, should have been LEADING the market, with models that reflect the coming needs for smaller families, shorter commutes and fuel efficiency! What did they do? Designed the Hummer H3, the new Jeep Rubicon, and continued the F150 series, and now they say they need MORE OF OUR money to survive.

Well boys, another thing my grandparents taught me, SURVIVAL of the FITTEST, and if the fittest is Japanese or Korean or Chinese, so be it.


Vern Oshawa
said

If GM built a decent car and actually stood behind them, people might be more interested in buying them. I have no sympathy for the corporation but I feel bad for the workers. As usual GM has waited far too long to make changes and the workers suffer.


R from Barrie
said

Yes banks and big auto companies are corporate welfare recepients but, the problem is when 355,000 people in ontario hit the unempolyment line everybody gets sent the bill. Like it or not these large integrated companies are woven into our own economic past and future. Just so you know I don't remember anybody complaining when GM,Ford etc... were employing 10s of thousands of people and equilization payments were flowing out east , out west and every place in between. Also you should know Ford's quality and durability scores consistently surpass Nissan's


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