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39% believe they're just paycheques from poverty

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Canada AM: Experts discuss the wage worries

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Oct. 27 2008 11:56 AM ET

Nearly four in ten Canadians believe they're just one or two paycheques away from poverty, according to a poll conducted for the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives.

Pollster Environics surveyed 2,023 Canadians for the left-of-centre think tank. It found that Canadians are almost unanimous in their call for governments to protect their jobs.

"A shocking 96 per cent are saying 'Do something about investing in jobs and skills (and) training right now. Don't wait until there are better balanced budgets,'" CCPA senior economist Armine Yalnizyan told CTV's Canada AM on Monday.

The CCPA poll found that:

  • 39 per cent of Canadians think they're just one or two paycheques from poverty
  • 47 per cent struggle with personal debt regardless of income
  • 44 per cent worry about having enough to retire comfortably
  • 26 per cent say they are worse off than a decade ago

"The interesting thing about the poll is that Canadians looked beyond their own pocketbook issues and said ... that governments need to step up to the plate, too," Yalnizyan said.

She said Canadians look at Scandinavian and European countries' focus on poverty reduction and say, "Why can't we do that here?"

According to the survey:

  • 90 per cent want the government to take leadership to reduce poverty
  • 86 per cent believe concrete government action can greatly reduce poverty
  • 81 per cent support reducing poverty by at least 25 per cent over the next five years

Yalnizyan noted that Canadians also appear to be increasingly concerned that their wages haven't kept up with the cost of living, with about one in four saying they are worse off than they were 10 years ago.

Wages not likely to increase soon

Conference Board of Canada's Prem Benimadhu says the current economic slowdown and what appears to be a looming recession will mean that wages are not likely to increase significantly in the near future.

"We have been talking to about 160 corporate leaders in just the last two weeks and we've seen a deceleration of wage increases all across Canada," Benimadhu said on Monday.

Benimadhu said he expects that unions, particularly in the manufacturing sector, are most concerned about job losses and preventing outsourcing. He said he doesn't expect union leaders to make wage hikes their top priority when they renegotiate contracts this year and next.

Benimadhu said that when the CBoC surveyed leaders in the manufacturing industry in July, they were forecasting wage increases of about 3.9 per cent.

"Today that figure has gone down to about to about three per cent, and in many sectors employees would be happy with a 2.5 per cent increase," he said.

U.S. lures Canadians

Meanwhile, a University of Guelph sociologist says a higher earning capacity in the U.S. is luring away some of Canada's brightest young university graduates.

David Walters and Statistics Canada's David Zarifa found that the earnings gap in Canada and the U.S. is most pronounced in fields such as engineering and computer science.

"Given such a large earnings gap, the recruitment strategies of some U.S. organizations and the boom in the information technology sector, it's not surprising that these degree-holders are leaving Canada in the greatest numbers," he said in a press release.

Their study, which is published in the latest issue of Canadian Public Policy, found that Canadians who went to the U.S. after graduation reported earning 24 per cent more than graduates who stayed home. The income disparity jumps even more for computer scientists and engineers, who earned nearly 50 per cent more than graduates who stayed in Canada.

Walters said that Canada will need to combat the disparity or lose some of its most vital professionals in the coming years. He says that could have long-term repercussions on the overall national economy.

"In this new age of technological innovation and knowledge-intensive labour, governments around the world have been pressured to tighten their grip on highly-skilled workers. The Canadian economy certainly needs these individuals in order to stay competitive in a global knowledge economy," Walters said.

Comments are now closed for this story

pp
said

Oh for heaven sakes - if these people stopped trying to 'keep up with the Jones's' then they would not be '2 paychecks away from poverty'.

I see it all the time - people want want want want... big houses, big trucks, big vacations, big toys... Homes in the country, cottages.... on and on...

Paaa-lllleeeeeaaaaasssseee

Don't start with me. If you cannot afford to pay cash then you cannot afford it! I don't care if you make $50K /yr or $150K /yr - Save your money then buy. Keep loans to a minimum... Don't carry large debt loads. If you cannot pay it off at the end of the month then it's too big to carry.

The reason the global economy is in such a crunch right now is because people wanted BIGGER and BETTER.

Not everyone can have the 'American Dream'... It is just that a Dream. And eventually it becomes a Nightmare when people become over extended...

It is not your right to own a house, it is your right to have adequate housing. If that means renting an apartment then so be it. In reality ownership of land is a relatively new concept that has been created from capitalism. 100 yrs ago only the very wealthy and farmers owned their own houses / land...

And another thing - Govn't should not be bailing out companies; they are creating a false security - and it is not working anyways. The market should be left to crash and burn (as much as I dread saying this as I too would be affected), this way the weak will be weeded out and the stronger better corporations will thrive.


kate
said

"90 per cent want the government to take leadership to reduce poverty "

I find that number hard to believe since the Conservatives keep winning elections. It's kind of like Canadians claiming they are environmentally concious yet they elect the party that cares the least for the environment.

I think what people really mean is: help the poor and clean up the environment as long as it doesn't come out of my pocket or threaten my lifestyle in way and force me to make any sacrifices for the good of my children's future.


NON UNION MANUFACTURER
said

That gap will get worse as our find unions representing our public sector says they won't do givebacks cause the economy/markets is dropping.Example a certain group rejecting 12% pay increase over 4 years.

In the end they want more and our property taxes will go up casue of it along with other rates. More people will have a hard time paying for this while those people with increases enjoy it.

THANKS!


Mark
said

Well, no surprise that the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (read NDP) would suggest that we need even more government intervention to protect us. It sounds like the Socialist call for all to return to the mother ship-the mother ship of high taxes, big government, Big brother, ZERO entrepeneurism, ZERO risk-and also ZERO growth.

This kind of thinking is blatant unionist, protectionist thinking-and is EXACTLY the kind of thing that accelerated the Great Depression.

Free market economies have always and always will-lead to growth. Better regulation in places like the US are a good idea to be sure (the 'right' to own a home-in itself a socialist agenda is what got the US into this mess in the first place)-but the LAST thing we need is big brother.

People-get an education, work hard, live within your means, don't blow it all trying to keep up with your neighbors. These are not rocket science concepts. The high school drop-out who goes to work 'at the plant' is powerless-except for his lowest common denominator-his/her union. It is this person that speaks when the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives makes such statements.

No thanks.



I want several short line-ups
said

The trend here in Vancouver is for people to form 1 long line-up even when physical space does not permit that kind of formation. I am continually telling people that I do not want to fall into their "communist" line-up.



Anna
said

certainly people are struggling. taxes play a large part in that. we just bought a new house and had to pay GST plus land transfer tax, plus who knows what other fees. The GST alone would have substantially lowered our mortgage and helped us pay off it off sooner. so basically we will be paying interest on that tax money for years. And of course, the people who bought our old house paid for the GST indirectly as we had to include what we had paid in the price - resulting in adding $20,000 and if those owners sell, then the next buyer will be inadvertently paying for the original GST. and so on and so on...

every where you turn, there is another tax grab in effect or looming. whether it's called tax, a premium or a fee, it's all the same thing. While we do need to pay some taxes, certainly the government can do with less, as we all have to. The public should be allowed to vote on whether or not the government funds an initiative, rather than the government deciding for us how they are going to spend the money they take from us.



Kevin
said

I have followed this so-called "poverty" mark for a few years and according to Stats Can my family of 7 has been living below the poverty mark for a decade; yet we have never been nor felt "poor." My children have always been fed and clothed and sheltered and have enjoyed a few frills now and then. We are helping one through university now, and still we are living on "ONE" paycheque [for 18yrs] and have never exceeding the $45,000 threshhold of family income, and no, we are not in debt up to our eyeballs. We have had tight years, but we cut back on spending, we make due and we do not blow a fortune on Christmas just so our children can have ten gifts each under the tree.

So take this story with a grain of salt, it is just a spin story to try and make news where there isn't any.


Jack
said

Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives = not worth wasting my time reading.

They're nothing but a mouthpiece for unions and the extreme left, any "poll" released by them has no credibility.


Edb
said

LESS government combined with personal DISCIPLINE is what's needed. If you make 30K/yr forget the damn Hummer and house in the suburbs or overpriced Toronto condo. Take charge of your own life and quit sacrificing what little freedom we have left in this country for some perceived security offered by over reaching governments. The nanny state is destroying us !


Martin
said

the wealth gap is only going to grow larger. Call me a socialist but I agree something needs to be done and fast.

1% of the world population owns 40% of the wealth. People aren't trying to "be like their neighbors"; people are trying to survive! the monetary system is the problem can it be fixed? short term answer: not really, only replaced which would mean... can you guess? another deeper depression.

I hope other Canadians are aware that many people worldwide survive off 2$ a day or less.

some good docs on this topic
: WHO killed Canada
: Zeitgeist Addendum
both available legal and free
on google video



JA
said

PP Said:
Don't start with me. If you cannot afford to pay cash then you cannot afford it! I don't care if you make $50K /yr or $150K /yr - Save your money then buy. Keep loans to a minimum... Don't carry large debt loads. If you cannot pay it off at the end of the month then it's too big to carry.

I agree with you about not spending more than your means but I don't make $50K /yr and neither do most of people.


Eric
said

A man who makes $10,000 a year and saves $1000, is richer than a man who makes a $1,000,000 a year and spends a $1,000,000.

Do you what happens when you win the rat race? Nothing, your still a rat....

Quotes that my grandfather used to tell me. An Italian immigrant who came to Canada with nothing, and lived his life happy, and rich.

It's time Canadians wake up. Take care of your families, enjoy time with your friends, instead of being a slave to all your mortgages, car loans, and unnecessary toys. Look at the first part of the word MORTGAGE. It's MORT, meaning death.


roy cotton
said

Kevin ,kudos to you and your family you are doing the right thing if only everyone else could do it your way wouldn't it be nice and PP you are right on the money.


zwinky
said

We've been hearing too much of the "me, me, me" mantra of extreme capitalism to think much about what it really means to society when poverty increases and compassion decreases.

We need to be careful of our decaying attitudes and dwindling compassion since in some countries "do something about the poor" means death squads or imprisonment.

As far as spending goes, I don't agree that everyone regardless of income can wait to pay cash for everything.

Some people use their Visa card to afford food and other necessities and I don't mean for the reward points.

People often use credit to bridge shortfalls in income with the hope that things will improve and they can remain independent from assistance. Sometimes it works, but unfortunately it is often a spiral to worse problems.

Things cost too much now for lower incomes to spend cash only and some would literally have nothing.

On the flip side, too many people believe 2 big new vehicles and a large house are important and will do anything to have these things.





pp
said

...If you want your house make sacrifices and don't please expect me to feel sorry for you.

If you cannot afford it don't buy it. If you do and then complain it was 'too expensive' spare me...

I make a great salary but know at any time I could be out on my arse - I rent and save for a rainy day... I want to retire at 60 with NO debt.

Live within your means... stop wanting the unattainable... stop whining.


JPFL in BC
said

What is the amont that is the marker for proverty-
$10,000 , $20,000 , $30,000
for a single person - age not factor.



ClassAction
said

That's right, blame the victims. These are the poor suckers who are just doing what they're expected to do to keep the economy growing. And they're the first to get hit. Perhaps the smarty-pants finger-pointers could share their wisdom in understanding how the world works to help instead. People, start by looking around your computer screen and counting the number of advertisements for credit cards and other non-necessary items. And contrary to what you may think, their misery is your misery too. Just check the value of your RRSPs.


Mike
said

I used to make pretty good money, I don't any more, my rent went from $425 /month to 925 /month in the time span of a year. Cost of paying for groceries has gone up too. I currently need to work 2 40 hours /week jobs @ 12$ /hr just to paybills, feed my family and look after my wife.


John E.
said

Something has to be done. The PM has to start by dumping the current Finance Minister or else Canada will go the way of Ontario when he was Finance Minister there.... Deficit to the order of "n". Also the PM must bite the bullet and take the axe to the Federal public service. It's time for the Corporate Public service in Ottawa to be pared way back. Not the public service in the field, but those that spent their time changing processes for change sake, spending their time in useless meeting, and those who keep moving from job to jog or attend endless training session just to avoid supervisors finding out how incompetent they are. The PM could also use his MPS and Cabinet more and get rid of his White-House style inter-circle policy makers and media manipulators. There are big bucks to be saved in the public services "Billions!" per year if only the PM had the will=power to do something. As they say in Ottawa our public employees in the Capital Region are so hard work that they never leave work before 5PM, and so efficient because they are home by 3PM. I say let Ottawa public employees feel the same pain as the rest of us.


Tim in Calgary
said

What nice poll. It shows that Canadians, when asked a question, are just full of enthusiasm to help out their fellow citizens.

Unfortunately, not one of the questions even broached the topic of how to fund such altruism. Had one of the questions been "Would you vote for a political party that planned to increase taxes by 25% in order to reduce poverty by 25%?", how many Canadians would have still said yes?


gimmie a break
said

you know what.
there's people whove worked a life time of paying taxes to be told today to forget your dream of retiring.
Live within your means??? imagine all the living one could do on the prospect of keeping all thier earnings. poverty isnt the tax payers fault nor should they have to accept the "means" left over from helping out banks.


Jerry O'Connor
said

Its difficult for an elected politician to appreciate the mindset of the struggling people that elect them to office.

Yet, the politicians are the ones to abuse and manipulate their powers and authority (once in office) to serve themselves first and those that elected them to office....second.

There are just way too many examples of abuses of power by elected politicians to even bother going into but excessive and sheer greedy pay increases, (untouchable by others)and out of touch severance packages is just 2 or 3 examples of the many pork barrelling excesses. We the struggling working poor of Canada can only dream of such excesses whereas all these things are a reality for elected politicians.

So if politicians are able and do abuse their powers of authority unchallenged towards looking after themselves.... then why can't the average poor working Canadian expect the same from that "pork barrell"?!

Politicians do not lead by example, for if they did, they would also be feeling the desperations of just plain trying to stay above water when it comes to the expectations of the basics of life.

My elected MLA in Calgary reminded me this week (after daring to speak out against him on the excesses of spending) how my glass was perceived as being "half empty...rather half full! Even if such empty minded statements meant anything to me........I would have to remind that politician that in all probability...his glass is half empty with fine wine...whereas mine is half empty with nothing but tap water.

Politicians have become disconnected, distanced, out of touch and way too arrogant when speaking of such matters. Politicians have joined the ranks of the "elite" here in Canada and their incomes prove it to be so when compared to what "was" and what is "now" for the "advantaged" in society verses the "disadvantaged" in society.


Mannie
said

Our family is a one income family and we go from paycheque to paycheque but with careful planning and spending on only things that are required we will hopefully be able to pay off our mortgage and lines of credit (small amounts) in the next 3-4 years. We live on a strict budget but we do on occasion enjoy lifes little extras. If consumers stop spending money on items that they don't really need but buy them because they want to out do their neighbours then they have no one else to blame but themselves. Saving starts at home.


Lu
said

Why are so many of you blaming "socialism" and "communism"? the current problems are because of CAPITALISM. Seems some people have been watching too much American news to be spreading these stupid tired phrases around. Its capitalism that drives people to spend more than they can afford, its capitalism that makes companies pay employees the minimum possible for their hard work. As 'Martin' say,part of the problem is hoarding of capital by the top 1%.


Made in Canada PLEASE
said

I went to buy new runners this weekend. Every single brand is made in China, Tiawan or Vietnam. Until we address this situation, we will not solve our countries workforce problems.


Eric
said

I work in a Pawn Shop in Ottawa, and I have to say, the people that bring in the nicest stuff to get a quick infusion of cash, also happen to be the people that live in the subsidized housing across the street.

If you can't afford a non-subsidized house, what are you doing with a 42' flatscreen tv? Or a pile of video games as tall as I am? 2 kids with a Nintendo DS each? Poor financial management time and time again.

I only work there part-time to pay for school, I'm not the owner, so frankly I feel obligated to say that while not EVERYONE is responsible for their own situations, its my experience that some people -are-. Don't get high speed cable internet bundled with your extended digital cable package then complain to me about how you don't have enough left over for food.


islander
said

Twenty years ago I earned $12.50/hr and my monthly phone bill was $6.95.
My basic phone is now about $30/mth incl taxes. My wages certainly aren't $60/hr (5 times increase)
Our overhead has increased a lot but our service levels have remained stagnant or declined. My college education now costs over 10 times what it did then. Wages haven't kept pace.


Paul B
said

Being on CPP Disability myself, I wonder why I'm made to pay taxes, but if I was on Workplace Insurance Benefits, I would not have to pay taxes.

I'm always one check away from living on the streets and my income is not going toward extravagant things, just the necessities of life,(medications, rent, special diet. etc.)

When are those, including me, going to be given wage increases to be brought up to current living conditions or at the very least, not made to pay taxes on disability income?

That's the biggest obstacle for Disabled Persons, the paying and withholding of taxes...keeping us in perpetual poverty.

Yes...you able bodied persons have it sooooooo hard!


Frank Buchan (Vauxhall, Alberta by way of Ontario)
said

I've been self-employed for almost 20 years and my income wavers with the economy, sometimes being good, and sometimes bad. Generally, though, I am above average wage levels...though it often takes enormous effort, and after taxes and expenses my net is often pretty much embarrassing.

I think what the "don't spend" folks are missing is what is obvious to anyone who has worked for themselves (and is true for all minimum wage earners); you can't save against a cyclic drain. Even if you earn decent wages, the problem is easily illustrated. In the last three years I have had to move nearer my primary work (expensive), we had a child (a lovely but expensive surpise), and recently we had a medical experience in our household (there is nothing like that to blow away savings). Transfer those same situations to a minimum wage earner and they are better off on welfare, because at least in the last case they won't have to foot the bill for presecription medecine solo. The tax credits there offset none of the immediate expense.

Having said that, the problem is that as a society we created inequalities of opportunity. I see this every year I do well, especially after a few rough years where my earnings decline, because our tax system is regressive in the middle income ranges where you simply haven't enough cash to take advantage of some tax tricks. What happens is that what you borrowed during the rough patch prevents you saving when you are flush, because any extra earnings are so severely degraded by taxes.

Saving isn't simple when your discretionary income is spoken for by the very act of raising it.


Meredith Horton
said

You know, not everyone is "Trynig to keep up with the Joneses! Myself personally, I have 2 kids & we are trying to pay off my student loans. That by the way is so that people like you who think they're better than people like me don't have to support usthrough Welfare!!! Maybe you should be a bit less judgemental, When you don't know what you're talking about!!!!!!! My husband & I also spend almost $1000 per month for child care so that i can work to pay my student loans!, and we live in an apartment! I'm still worried about a recession because my job is somewhat more secure than my husbands'! And what's your situation like?


PullingMyOwnWeight
said

PP- you nailed it.




Hayton
said

I mean is this article serious? European countries have some of the highest unemployment, largest deficits and uncompetitive workforces on the earth? Who is their right mind is saying we should be more like those countries.

And the first poster in this article has it right on - the pain go through the system, not bailing out homeowners. People clearly need to live within their means.


Carry your own weight
said

To PP,

Well said, now if only people would take heed...or more importantly had acted more responsibly in the first place.

The government is us, the POEPLE and I DO NOT want MY MONEY used to bail out neither individuals nor corporations who cannot manage their finances.

Live within your means...do without a beer or a cup of coffee...stop wasting at every turn


No More Visa for Me!!!!
said

Well said PP! I am recovering financially from an expensive divorce and am now living well within my more than adequate means. I had to shut down virtually all credit in order to qualify for the mortgage to keep my matrimonial home for my children. Gone are the enormous credit card limits, line of credit... It's usually a little tight before payday, but I am finding it quite managable.
FYI readers; an associate of mine recently started work in her profession. As a student doing her undergraduate studies in Pennsylvania she had a Visa with a $10,000 limit! Did I mention she only worked seasonally? Her Canadian Visa limit is way less than half of that, and she is working! Go figure...


t
said

How much longer is the private sector going to be able to support the public sector? Teachers making $80,000+ for 9 months of work as a small example.


Anthony from NS
said

I agree with pp; hate to be quite blunt about this, but people: USE SOME COMMON MONEY SENSE!

Basicaly if people spent there money THE RIGHT WAY and not went into mundo overkill buying stuff all the time they can't afford, then poverty would be avoided.

I mean look at me: 1 credit card, 1 line of credit, and a savings account, plus 9k$ plus of student debt (i am a student btw if u havent caught on). Despite having a small part time job making 100$ - 150$ every two weeks, i am in the best financial shape of my life. Why? Because i know how to manage my money wisely. No chance of me hitting the poverty line anytime soon.

Problems are the overzealous spenders who think "oh i got to have this", or "man i'm gonna buy that just cuz i can". Think smart: want or need? if it is a need, then get it but it must be something that serves a purpose. Buying a 60in LCD TV is not a need it's a want.

Good thing me mum raised me right on how to manage my money.


Alex (Toronto)
said

People are worried about their jobs. What the survey said is that they want help finding a new job if they lose their current job. Taxes aren't the problem; people want the opportunity to earn enough to pay taxes.

It's disheartening to see the lack of compassion and empathy some people display. Not everyone is in a position to take their current job for granted.


Gerry
said

The government is trying to remove the middle class entirely. All they want is 4% richest and the rest poor.. They are trying to make it impossible for the middle class to ever get ahead. Two years ago I was finally starting to have a little money in my pocket , but that did not last long.. With the oil and gas hikes anything I saved was quickly erased. Solution: drop taxes and give the middle class a chance to live..


Steve in Fredericton
said

... The people are hurting and it's simply not necessary in a first-world economy.

BTW, I'm a university-educated man earning a very stable income as an Army officer. I'd count myself as one of those who are concerned about their retirement savings and I also have to closely manage my income so as not to fall into financial trouble. I'd say I'm about 3 paychecks away from distress. Again, not necessary.


Karen J. Cao
said

i don't like commenting on news articles because i find most comments on here to be very simplistic, as if reality is really just black and white, that being said - the reality is the people are struggling just to get the basics - the BASICS (rent, food etc.) met, not big fancy cars, cottages, vacations and what-not...

1 in 3 Torontonians lives in poverty, while our GDP is bigger than 29 states - something is wrong

if you're spending 50% or more of your income on rent, then you're at risk of homelessness...




DJD
said

My husband became disabled almost 4 years ago and almost died due to a brain stem stroke. We sold our house and I only had one month to find another place to live. At that time there were no wheelchair accessible apartments for rent available that could house my husband, 2 sons and myself, we had to buy another house that we could make wheelchair accessible. May sons share a room so I could take in 2 boarders to help make ends meet. So pp, not everyone falls into your neat little category of trying to keep up with the joneses. Sometimes we are thrust into situations we did not ask for or expect. We are not big money spenders. We don't have a flat screen tv with surround sound or expensive gadgets. We are just a simple family doing our best to stay afloat and out of debt. My mother had a saying, don't judge others until you have walked a mile in their shoes.


Edmonton John
said

'twas ever thus...

The vast majority of people have been at most two paychecks away from poverty for as long as I've been drawing paychecks. That was not news in the eary eighties.

What is new is that people nowadays are starting to realize it. What they have to do now is remember it.


One of the Few, the Proud
said

...tell me in which province a teacher makes $80, 000 for nine months because I would gladily pack up and move. I think teachers salaries are far below what they actually do; if teachers were paid for the real amount of hrs they put into their profession they would be rich. How many hrs spent grading, correcting, making lesson plans, after school study programs, detention. I could go on. Oh did I mention that teachers are the ones trying to ingrain socail skills in your children ...Maybe you should shadow a teacher for a few weeks ....

Ian in Guelph
said

I have managed to save a few thousand dollars while being paid just under 20,000 dollars a year. Unfortunately for me I still have 35,000 dollars in student loan debt, which was impossible to avoid when I knew it was time to re-train. I have taken this personal initiative to make myself more marketable, and am still hoping to find a good job even in these trying times.

Anyone out there currently re-training has my sympathies for their economic hardships. Those who have been living outside their means for years get no sympathy from me whatsoever.


DJR
said

A few paychecks to poverty can clearly remind people what action needs to be taken. Stop spending your pay checks. The process is simple, clearly go over your financial situation. See where you’re losing your money. What did you purchase to put you so far into debt that your feel that you’re a few pay checks to poverty.
Most families are over spending on electronics. The electronics are killing our budgets. Once they change, advertising makes it seem like it’s no longer hip or cool to own the product your currently happy with. You’re at the store before you know it buying the latest and greatest. This simple problem, in the majority of house holds is what’s getting you.
Why spend money on electronics when you can put it down on your mortgage. You are not rich until the mortgage is paid off. Any dept you currently have needs attention. The longer you wait to pay that off, the more you will fork out in the long run. Electronics depreciate a lot faster then cars and houses do. Your never going to retire if you have a basement full of old toys when the money could have been put into your bank account. Money in your bank account makes you money. The more money you have the more money you get. Electronics don’t make interest.



MuskyBuck
said

@ Mark.

You're way off base about your percpection of CCPA.

If you were to familiarize yourself with their recent report on the Harper governments last minority rule performance you would find they have cited Harper for:

"return to the mother ship-the mother ship of high taxes, big government, Big brother, ZERO entrepeneurism, ZERO risk-and also ZERO growth"

Just to set the record straight.


How much longer must taxpayer support banks
said

Harper and his handouts for his corporate cronies will ruin this country.




Gaëts Gravelle
said

Don't assume us people "near poverty" are spending too much on stuff. The cost of living is continually growing (unlike our wages) and it takes everything we have to pay our household bills. My husband and I are blessed to have a low-rent apartment that doesn't increase because a higher rent would put us over.


Joe
said

In the 70's we made the same wages as we do today, too bad that the cost of living has gone up at least by 12x. If you can save $1000 on $20,000 a year you must be living rent free and/ or not eating.I have no debt, I don't drink or smoke,I support my wife and daughter,pay rent,have an old car....


JSG
said

"The reason the global economy is in such a crunch right now is because people wanted BIGGER and BETTER". That's an awful big assumption on your part isn't it? Families who were handling their monthly bills just fine, were faced with some huge increases.The gas prices as well as the food prices all skyrocketed. It isn't just about bigger and better, it's about food and shelter. It's about working full time and paying for only what your family needs, and still struggling. It's not just about having the sense to "keep it simple" or "don't buy it if you don't pay cash" Food gas and medicine all cost money. Keep a more open mind about all the people affected. It isn't always about keeping up with the jones'


Richard
said

I bet you it has been like this for decades.




L in Peterborough
said

My husband and I are not "keeping up with the Jones's," yet, with a college diploma, university BA and MA between us, only one vehicle (which we do need), no trips, takeout, or movies, we are still paycheques away from poverty. We bought a very small house (800sq ft) and our mortgage payment, utilities and taxes are less than rent was, and we put 25% down, which helped considerably, but with a small car loan, two student loans (which aren't as high as they could be), and two full-time jobs, we are still finding it hard to save. It is not enough to be making 11$ an hour (him) or 25$/h (me) and be working 50 hours a week (him) and 35 hours a week (me). We have made the decision to stay in a mid-sized city in Ontario, and have cut back even more with gas prices and uncertainty. We have a bit of money saved, but if one of us can't work (for whatever reason), things will be very tough. That said, I can't imagine how people are making it that aren't as fortunate as we are. Not sure what the answer is, but more understanding of the problems "at the grassroots level" is needed, training and pay increases that reflect changes in the cost of living are also key. Our grocery bill has skyrocketed over the past year and we are just two people (who only eat what is on sale).


P.A.
said

I was unemployed for two years once. It was horrible, and hard to take after everthing I invested in my education and career, but it really changes your view of what 'poverty' really is and clarifies the line between and wants. Might be a good experience for a lot of other people.


Doug BC
said

That's the same price our country pays for excess levels of debt.And I expect the roosters are all coming home to roost.To many are consuming a lot more than they earn,and thinking they can pay for it "some time in the future".
As to "kate's" comment aboout poverty,it should be pointed out that the political left likes to fight poverty by mailing ot cheques paid for by confiscating the earnings of other people.The political right believes any fight against poverty must be a business environment that provides access to decent jobs.
I WAS a Liberal for almost 50 years.But I've come to realize that far to many people would rather live off my pay cheque,than work for one of their own.As long as Liberals continue to offer socialism as an option,I will continue to vote for Conservatives.
Our exports pay for our social programs.And as long as we have the highest costs for labour,for taxes,and for energy,our manufacturers will continue to exit Canada and take jobs with them.
Like those people near poverty because of debt,our country has to address that very same issue.If,or when the Liberals recognize that reality,I will consider them when I go to vote.
Neither nations,nor people should spend more than they earn.Surely this global economic meltdown adds weight to that point of view.
Digging yourself out from under a mountain of debt can be a daunting task.But you can not succeed or move forward unless you take that big,and often painful step first.
Socialists have a litany of noble ideas about spending money.What they lack is any sense of how to generate wealth.I deplore their notion that my earnings are "public funds".


Jonny of the RCR
said

I wonder how many of the people in these stats didn't consider it important enough to vote a couple weeks ago.......


big picture
said

You got it pp! And "made in canada" just because we don't manufacture running shoes, tv's or other consumer products doesnt mean we don't manufacture or export. As a consumer you don't see the industrial manufacturing that we do and China/Taiwan doesn't.

Our resource manufacturing is much more productive (grain, oil, and logging). So just because you don't see a pair of domestic running shoes, built with the same quality as a domestic car in this country doesn't mean we aren't involved in other areas of export.


Anne Ottawa
said

interesting comments. To Kate, 90% responded that they wanted the govt to help the poor in the survey, but they might not have voted, dont forget. look at the dismal voting rate, 59%. I bet the response rate for the survey was higher!

I agree with whomever said we have become too much of a keeping up with the Jones's society. I still do not have a widescreen TV, still have my Sony 27", though I am starting to shop around for a widescreen and will make sure I dont over buy and can pay for what I get when I get it. the only debt I am comfortable with is my mortgage but too many people are spending and putting it on their line of credit. that is disastrous in my opinion. live like there is a depression folks and you cant go wrong.


Brenda
said

My family lives off a disability income and our child tax check. My husband(29) and daughter(5) are disabled, and then there is me(28) and my son (7)we earn around 2200 a month, plus we can earn another $500 if needed. After we pay our rent, food and bills we have nothing left. I have an extremely bad mouth, my teeth are falling out left right and center, literally! I get $1000 every 2 years for dental work. I need approx $10,000 just to get my mouth out of pain. I can not earn extra money, I can not find a dentist to do 'payments' so I have resorted a few times now to pulling my own teeth. How am I suppose to fix my teeth? Soon I will no longer be able to eat normal food, but maybe once all my teeth are gone I wont feel any pain anymore. Our government needs to take a long hard look at all our failing systems. How is Dental work not part of our health? If I got a rock in my eye, I would need to see an eye doctor and then my eye would be fixed and my health care would pay for it. WHY is our mouths different? Can you not die from a tooth infection? I can not be healthy until my mouth is, I take tylenol and advil everyday for pain, I guess I will keep going until my liver and kidneys start to go..... or some miracle happens that lets me fix my teeth!


Mario
said

Here is a good way to help stop poverty. Make it illegal for these big so called charities to profit from others good will. And believe me people if you did a little research on this you will find the big charities keep 90% for themselves. Correct this and poverty will almost disappear.


Gail in NS
said

To PP and others of his ilk:

You are so right. It is all our own fault that those of us living paycheque to paycheque are making foolish choices such as buying groceries for 3 kids on credit cards. A needless expenditure for sure, but if I don't send a lunch to school with my 7-yr old then the teacher will buy it for her in the cafeteria and send me the bill. Also the fact that I was so stupid as to charge $800 last week to fill my oil tank so my family would have heat for the next few months. I must be brain dead not to have saved that up ahead of time, but I'm still trying to pay off the bills from what I used last winter and the $60 per week fill-up of my gas tank so I can get to and from work. I'd be looking forward to retirement if not for the fact I had to cash in my RRSPs to repair the house we live in. By the way, I've checked into selling the house and renting, but my mortgage payment is actually substantially cheaper than rent on an apartment.

Luxuries? New electronics? I'll bet there are some in your house, but there aren't in mine. I don't even have cable.

Did I ask for your help? No, I did not. I'm too busy trying to cram my last year of university (full-time) while working 60 hour weeks and raising three kids by myself. Just because some government paid think-tank released a study does not give you the right to pass such self-righteous judgement on people who don't have the luxury of saving money. Who do you think you are?


pp
said

DJD - sorry for your unfortunate circumstances.

This is exactly why one should SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE...

It is those unfortunate circumstances that leap upon us that we least expect that we need to prepare for.

Instead of going out and buying 'what ever' I put that $100, $40, $30 into the bank - If I don't really need it I don't get it. I would love to go on a trip and could very easily do so - I make the money, I can put it on my line of credit. But I don't need that trip - what if I lost my job? what if I had an accident ? what if, what if, what if...

This is why I save. I don't want to be beholden to no one if I don't have to be.

Your are making ends meet and that is what people should be doing. You should be commended for your hard work and dedication to your husband and children.


doing my best while not publically employed
said

To, One of the few, the proud, Please book your plane ticket to Ontario. The current contract being negotiated will give an elementary school teacher with 10 years experience a $92,000 salary plus benefits and pension within 4 years. In a couple of years, Ontario will have to change to sunshine list from $100,000 to $200,000 or every public sector employee will be on it. I also cannot have sympathy about the number of hours you work, as many of us have to put in extra hours during the work day, without the benefit of July and August off to recooperate.


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