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Liberal contenders prepare for leadership race
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Thu. Oct. 23 2008 9:23 PM ET
Despite a crushing defeat during last week's federal election, Liberal Leader Stephane Dion emerged from Thursday's caucus meeting vowing his "very united" party will continue to fight the Conservatives.
"We will fight - it's very clear we are the alternative to the Conservatives," said Dion.
However, with only 76 seats compared to the Conservatives' 143, the party is in no position to bring down the government in Parliament.
Meanwhile, party insiders have said the Grits won't challenge the Tories until after Dion is replaced as leader.
But that doesn't mean some leadership hopefuls within the party aren't already laying the groundwork for their campaigns -- even though many aren't saying so publicly.
Michael Ignatieff, who ran for leader in 2006, said Thursday that he's still talking to his supporters about a potential bid.
"I need to listen to them, consult with them ... I'm not going to keep anyone waiting."
Other contenders, who are still saddled with debt from the 2006 race, are still wavering on whether to run for leader this time around.
"We have not decided," said re-elected MP Martha Hall Findlay. "There are many factors to consider."
The names of other potential candidates include:
- Toronto MP Bob Rae
- Former New Brunswick premier Frank McKenna
- Former cabinet minister Martin Cauchon
- Former deputy prime minister John Manley
- New Brunswick MP Dominic LeBlanc
- Montreal MP Denis Coderre
- Toronto MP Gerard Kennedy
However, former MP Robert Thibault said that only candidates with a real chance of winning should enter the race.
"If you don't have 20 per cent, support someone," he told CTV's Roger Smith.
"It's not the time for resume building."
Earlier this week, Dion announced he will stay on as head of his party only until the next party convention.
'Positive' mood during caucus meeting
Ajax-Pickering MP Mark Holland described Thursday's caucus meeting as "incredibly positive.
"There's fundamentally a lot of things that we need to do to restructure our party and I
heard a lot of commitment to that today," Holland told CTV's Rosemary Thompson.
He added that there were no attacks on Dion during the meeting.
"Every single person who spoke was positive and optimistic and forward looking," he said.
Paul Zed, who lost his seat to the Tories in Saint John, said Thursday the whole party must share the blame for the election defeat.
He said Dion's replacement needs to be able to express a vision for the whole of Canada.
"Canada's voice is being lost on the world stage, its voice is being lost even in North America," he said.
"The reality is it costs a lot of money to run a race and several of the leadership candidates from the last time are still in debt... so the likelihood of many, many people jumping in is hard to say," said Thompson.
Negative ads powerful, says Dion
Dion admitted he was disappointed about the election result and said he "underestimated" the effect of the negative campaign ads the Tories used to target him.
The Liberals suffered one of their biggest election defeats in party history on Oct. 14, winning only 76 seats, a 27-seat decline from 2006.
Looking forward, Dion said it was not about him, but about Canada.
"I will do everything in the coming years and months to prepare the ground for my successor so that next time we'll be better equipped to win," he told reporters after the caucus meeting.
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.
Comments are now closed for this story
DougBD
said
Toronto Conservatives to Replace the Old Elite.
said
REDSTAR
said
There is really no sphistication required. Conservative supporters dig into their own pockets (not somebody elses) to support a program they believ in. Try offering a political party that is not entitled to their entitlements. One that delivers on promises. One that it's base elements are NOT Lying, Theivery, Rhetoric and Spin... Realistic legistlation that has achievable goals. If the Liberals KEEP ON DOING THE SAME THING...Guess what....YOU GET THE SAME RESULTS.......
Robert Brise
said
When is the Liberal party going to realize that the Canadian people don't like what they were trying to put across at the last election, Higher taxes, carbon shift, Gst, holding up tougher crime laws in the Senate with their senate appointees etc.? Lets not forget their fauxpas of yesteryears.
mrafab
said
mercury
said
Those days are GONE. The people of Canada will not allow it. The old strategy of if you repeat something enough times people will believe it will not work any longer. The Conservatives are not a perfect government. The people of Canada want a government that will work hard and try its best. We can live with that and the Coservatives offer this is spades....
A Liberal Makeover Is Badly Needed
said
Hall Findlay and Kennedy are left of center socialists who have a following but will not take the party back to center where traditional Liberals voters are. There are many who are upset with the sharp left turn to the left Dion and friends have taken them. There are even rumblings about revising laws like gay marriage and abortion. The Liberal party has lost it roots and is in disarray and dire need a NEW fresh competent face if they want any hope of winning the next election.
REDSTAR
said
bruce nicolson
said
In this election they were tripping over the NDP in a rush to the left.They simply don,t know what they stand for so they try to stand for everything.Until they can articulate a reasonable policy platform they are not fit to govern!
REDSTAR
said
John Manley....The best choice. respected by all parties.
MIchael (Ottawa)
said
Consequently, promise and say most anything just to get elected. They employ luminaries like Warren Kinsella the architect of American style "gotcha politics" (1993-present) to help get them elected.
At the end of the day the Liberals still have nothing foundational upon which to take the country forward and govern reactively rather than proactively as Mr. Harper does.
They have lost all touch with Canadians.
Wally J.
said
Go away, Nanny!
said
KJ in Kingston Ontario
said
531111
said
Its the message stupid!!!!
When is the Liberal party going to realize that the Canadian people don't like what they were trying to put across at the last election, Higher taxes, carbon shift, Gst, holding up tougher crime laws in the Senate with their senate appointees etc.? Lets not forget their fauxpas of yesteryears
Here,why don't we just drop the taxes down to say 10%. Would that make you happy?? You could kiss your medical and pension goodbye along with a few other safety nets like Unemployment Insurance and so forth, which is exactly what Harper would love to accomplish. The safety nets we have in place MAY not affect you right now, but believe you me there will be a day you will be glad they are in place.I've lived in the US for many years and I do pay a lot less tax but certainly can't afford to end up in a hospital.As far as your comment on the crime bills, you need to remember that Harper himself parouged parliament and those bills were already passed so in essence it was Harper who killed those bills so quit trying to blame the Liberals for that one.It would be so simple to stop the revolving door of criminals walking the streets by passing a "3 strikes" your out law like they have in California. Just look at how much their crime rate dropped and it would work here.Three strikes for any crime and you do 10 years and you make the penalties higher for more serious crimes.Make it so if you even get caught with an unregistered handgun, it's automatic 10 yrs, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I believe all parties would vote for that scenario.
RCR from Ontario
said
What a typical Liberal post.
Blame Harper, blame the Conservatives, blame everyone else..Don't bother to look inward to see how the "party of entitlement" can be improved. Until the Liberals realize that they have lost trust with the electorate, they will remain in the wilderness.
I am a Conservative supporter, or NeoCon as we have been called many times. but to use the word "hate" is a bit over the top. Don't really hate anyone....
whitewolf
said
REDSTAR
Rae and Ignatieff are the frontrunners to replace Dion but there are a variety of other potential candidates, Thompson said. Is this guy serious. Frank McKenna Yes.
John Manley....The best choice. respected by all parties.
unquote
*****************************
I think you better get started at doing some research if you think manley is good for this country
pro free trade
said
Steve in Fredericton
said
Your party has a long road ahead of them before they will be considered seriously by the vast majority of Canadians as something other than tax-and-spend, or political pick-pockets.
I for one hope the Liberals make their way back to offer a viable alternative vision for Canada. Without it, we are left with only a single vision and that runs the risk of narrow-mindedness and obstinance in policy making.
The NDP and Bloc are a write-off. All they offer is a fractured electorate and a lot of hot air. We need a strong Liberal party in opposition and a strong Conservative party in gov't to keep the mechanism of our gov't working for Canadians.
K D
said
PrairieDog-prairies
said
KMC
said
I don't either agree or disagree with you environmental views. The problem is, as with so much of the "accepted wisdoms, in present day society, we only hear one side of the story. We do know that many of the world's leading scientific minds refused to sign the UN report on "climate change" because, they said, it was based on flawed data and was scientifically inaccurate. Unitl we hear BOTH sides of the issue, I think I'll reserve jusgement.
Ian Ottawa
said
It isn't that the people hate the Liberal Party that is the problem. The truth is they are all a bunch of rich guys and gals wanting to solidify there coffers. The pension they recieve is really, really good. The Liberals showed the us during the years they were in power. The arrogance of there leaders was legendary. The taking of protected money (we thought) of the pension funds from the military and RCMP was theft and the envelopes of cash to the sponsorship scandal happened. To say that Cretien as PM and Martin as Finance Minister didn't know about it is not acceptable. They were the ultimate authority. People that don't open there eyes to these facts don't want to see. I would be as critical of any party elect for the tricks the Liberals played. The people hate being taken for fools. At least some of us do.
GenderNeutral
said
Doug BC
said
I totally agree with "mrafab" about leadership contest they are about to face.If they put a rush on it,there will be a huge advantage to those who lost the last time.They still have organizations and supporters standing by.
Meanwhile,people not sitting as MP's,people like Manley,or McKenna,etc,will not have the time to get organizations together to give them a level playing field.If they rush this process,they may well make another poor choice and be banished to the political wilderness for a very long time.They must change direction and find their way back to the political centre before the COnservatives get there.And I see very little evidence that any of their current MP's have even figured this out,never mind coming up with the resolve and support to actually do it.
But,if they do not,I think their best chance at getting elected is to simply admit they are also socialists,and join the NDP.
Mike
said
Saying the above, I am a die hard Liberal and will admit Dion lost (badly) due to his weak approach on many issues and his Green Shift Plan was a disaster. The Liberals have to learn to stop thinking we are the naturally governing party just because we have been in power the most out of all the parties. I think that will be only way things will be turned around .. ok maybe some other things too .. lol.
And for the guy who said the Liberals are a spending party ... how are the surpluses doing that the Liberals left from all their spending from 93-04... oh wait ...sorry their spending cuts due to the high deficits left behind from the PCsand Liberals in the 70's - it was bad for both parties)for the Conservatives.
Norm
said
CC-western Canada
said
roy cotton
said
Gosh
said
glen
said
The Green Shift was a brilliant plan -- to cut taxes for everyone except polluters. The tragedy is that Conservative propaganda totally misrepresented it to Canadians. Most people I talk to totally misunderstood it. Dion is a man of great vision and principle, who was undone by short-sighted opponents who pandered to the fears of the masses.
Richard in Toronto
said
NS
said
Mr. Dion I think you are the best of what the liberals have ... you care
The green shift is a good concept at the wrong time or may be the wrong approach
We need to create new jobs not limit companies from creating new jobs by adding or increaing taxes.
Tax cuts to "board rooms" are a way to influnce job creation.
Mr Dion, why not offer incentives to companies who create green jobs instead of taxing the corps that are currenly supplying canadians with jobs ???
Increasing taxes , in cluding gas/fuel taxes will drive companies to locate else where.
Most of the manufacturing / produce is delivered in Canada via transport tucks / rail / marine container which all use fuel .
There are better ways to create a green shift the Tax.
Mr. Harper you need to pay attention to Canadians, you got lucky this time !
Paul in Ottawa
said
CMQ in NB
said
He said that the Conservatives were a one man show. Well, Harper has a strong group around him. Dion it appears is where he preached against others, alone!
As a leader, if you do not have your people behind you, you have nothing to stand on and at the end of the day you stand alone to answer the tough questions.
Dion is where he is because he put himself there. He tried to do it all alone. I wonder if he will ask his caucus to "repeat their questions," or blame his incoherance on a language or hearing problem? It won't work this time. No matter what, once this meeting is over the message will be loud and clear, "Mr Dion, just like you did not want our ideas or our support, we no longer want you!"
I see a press conference coming soon....
eskiefan
said
I really think Stéphane Dion still wants badly to be prime minister and that's why he's holding on, in the hopes that between now and the Liberal leadership review a non-confidence vote will give him another shot at the brass ring.
Rob
said
I think you hit the nail on the head. Die hard Conservatives like me are angry at the Liberals because of their attitude of being the "Natural Governing Party" and their arrogance and attitude to be the saviours of this country. Shame!
Bob,Calgary,Alberta
said
Joe
said
d in Victoria
said
phauser
said
The reality is both the NDP and the Conservatives are parties of the people with DEEEEEEEEP grass roots. While the PCs still did things the Liberal way for a while, they to embraced one member one vote types of principles that got people involved.
The Liberals have no such connection and it is part of what makes them out of touch.
When the Liberals need to do a photo op they need to go looking for a typical family because they don't even know what one looks like.
Jack and Steve just go into thier membership lists.
As a Conservative I am proud to empty a little of my pocket to the cause and I find it incredible that people say they don't matter.
That is Liberal party exposure thinking. You can get involved in the political process and now that the playing field is more level the Liberals have a lot to catch up to the others.
RAdu
said
Canadian Spirit
said
If you read the Green Shift, you'd have seen it called for a corporate tax cut from 19.5% to 14% and even lower for small businesses. Any guesses how much they are going to have to pay with Harper's cap and trade without such guarantees? THAT will be the job killer and Candaians will deserve it.
The Green Shift was the type of plan that could have moved Canada towards a stronger, cleaner economy. It amazes me how people got scared away by the word "tax". Either Canadians are morons or wusses. Either way, not impressed.
Jeff
said
My money goes to Mr. McKenna for serving as a Premier for three terms in NB, serving as our Ambassador to the US and is currently the deputy chair for the Toronto Dominion Bank. He's also bilingual and a class act unlike the CONservatives goons running this country.
And to THE TORONTO CONSERVATIVE TO REPLACE THE OLD ELITE - Dream on pal. Torontonians are too smart and savvy to let a CONservative win.
Cambob
said
HKP in Vancouver
said
future
said
jonzo
said
Ex-Liberal in Eastern Ontario
said
They cannot recognise that they have every made errors that caused them to be in the present situation.With these guys it is all God's Will or someone else's fault.
Arrogance,dishonesty,theft of taxpayers money,strutting around with their "We know best because we are the best"
The attitude they portray can only be compare to medieval europe with it's Divine Right of Kings....
The king spoke personally to God,so whatever the king said was absolute,no questions and no arguing...that's if you liked to keep your head on your shoulders for a few more years!
I voted for the Liberals for years,but I cannot look at them now without thinking that "The herd needs thinning"
Justin Trudeau isn't going to solve your problems,and Bob Rae and Iggy would be suicide.
Use the mirror for a little REAL self analysis,and not just for preening your egos and we all may just want to put our X on your side of the ballot.
But,of course,I am just a voter,and my opinion means less than nothing to their Majesties
Alan
said
Norman in Mtl
said
Peter in Ottawa
said
The 'green shift' was not an environmental plan.
It was a wealth redistribution plan which penalized everyone making over about $50,000 and gave the proceeds to massive increases in social spending.
And it also was effectively a massive tax grab from people's savings, because it directly attacked the spending power of those savings by adding a GST-like tax onto them.
Boggles my mind how folks can call the Conservatives as having a 'hidden agenda', when the green shift was definitively that - a disguised weath-redistribution scheme pretending to be an environmental plan.
And, ironically, It was the Conservative environmental plan that was the ONLY ONE which actually contained real, tangible reductions in greenhouse gas, regardless of whether or not you think those targets were enough or not.
If you think the Libs actually care about the environment, you're living in a propagandized dream-world.
Leo
said
I hope that someone that runs against him will do to him what he has done onto others...
He has no eperiences in leading a Politic Party he too use to runnin an American school.
What a same if he makes it...
Bob Rae well we all know what he did to Ontario,
He even wasn't prepared to win that election, he said it himself...
If Mr. Dion steps down then I hope we get someone with the green shift or at least better than the Cons. Plan.
And also with new young Ideas for the 21st Century...
Good Mr. Dion!!!
Keith McClatchie, Barrie
said
BillyBoy, Barrie
bdw
said
"prepare the ground for my successor".
I thought he already did that for the entire party?
Vote Till I Die
said
SK ex-NDPyer
said
M. Hagios (Toronto)
said
Liberals and their "nanny state" politics are over. Liberals have degraded our culture and heritage and demeaned our rich Judeo Christian heritage.
It's time traditional LPC supporters realized just how far left of center this gang of political opportunists have take the party.
Time for a fresh new set of LPC leaders and kick the gang of old including Dion out.
Diane
said
Every non Liberal was happy to have him as leader. His chances of winning were slim to none and the party was arrogant enough to think that Canadians would blindly vote for them.
He blames attack ads for his lack of votes? Really it was his incomprehensible Greenshift policy and the Liberal Party's smug assumption that people would vote for them as the perceived "Canadian" Party.
They are still all bickering with each other in the Liberal party..they have no money thanks to the change in the rules by their previous leader. Listening to other Liberals skew Mr Dion unless they get their act together there is no way they will ever get elected.
Dan
said
Everything you buy originates from a line of supply that all would be impacted by the "Shift", i.e. they will be "Taxed". So, it only makes sense that the supply chain, (at every stop) will pass the "Tax" on to the consumer. The "Tax" will be given to the government, (with the exception of the overhead cost that the supply also adds on to cover the cost of collecting the "Tax").
So call it what you want but I call it a "Tax" and my "Taxes" will go up (to cover the overhead cost). Not only my "Taxes" will go up but all Canadians "Taxes" will go up.
I don't need Harper to tell me that. I can figure that one out on my own.
Karen Limacher
said
Gail (Hamilton)
said
james
said
Its not the negative ad campaign that hurt them. It was the failure to change their core policies.
The basis of the Liberal Party is tax and spend, mislead the electorate, use tax money to support the Party, generating fear of other party's "hidden agenda", and endless social engineering programs.
Canadians are better informed and less inclined to vote for a given party out of loyalty. Canadians are skeptical, better educated, more knowledgeable and the Liberals don't know what to do.
It wasn't just the higher taxes under the auspices of Green Shift, it was the failure of Dion as Environment Minister and his "One Ton Challenge" environmental policy. He has no credibility, just a lot of empty words.
..and so do all Liberals.
Vince M
said
Firstly, do you really think anyone having to pay that tax would not pass it on as a cost of doing business?
Secondly, NEITHER CARBON NOR CO2 ARE POLLUTANTS so how can it be described as a tax on polluters?
Thirdly, show me anywhere in the green Shift where it set down reduction goals. There were none. The Green Shift was nothing but a wealth transfer tax from middle income to poor.
GHW
said
Get used to it folks. Minority governments are the norm from here on in.
Allan Eizinas
said
David Peterson just leaked that his buddy Frank McKenna is “showing interest” in the Liberal Leadership.
The Honourable Frank J. McKenna has agreed to chair the 29th Annual Cardinal’s Dinner to be held on Oct 30, 2008 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. The Cardinal’s Dinner has become the largest annual dinner in Canada, and its average attendance has been in excess of 1,900 people. It is usually attended by the Premier of the province as well as Mayors, Wardens and Regional Chairman.
A high profile meeting with plenty of media coverage – perhaps a golden opportunity to throw a McKenna hat into the ring?
George from Brampton
said
I'm sure glad you undersood the green plan. I didn't. Again lower taxes, tax polluters, but no one has told me with no other source in sight, diesel engines, these polluter will still pollute the same. (trucks-trains-boats) Everything I buy will go up. Hydro will DOUBLE heat will got. No replacement for coal generated hydro. Neuclar way off in the future, too long to build plants. I assure you Dion would not give me
$5000.00 back in tax relief and have allready been told my rent will rise more than that. PLEASE EXPLAIN?
Linda in Vancouver
said
I think Johm Manley is a good fit at this time.While I agree with "Paul in Ottawa" that he might be a bit to far right for the current Liberal team,the fact remains that he is somewhat Liberal,closer to the centre than either the NDP or the Conservatives,and brings a more conservative perspective to a party that I also think is far to left leaning.
If he is a bit to far right for some,there are forces within the party that could restrain any really excessive or ultra conservative views he may hold.
He's smart,less partisan on some important issues and has enough experience to know which policies must be above partisanship or party loyalty.He also has earned quite a lot of respect in foreign jurisdictions.
But then again,I'm certain he has plenty of lucrative options for his life.He may decide leading a bunch of left wing socialists is just a lot more trouble than it's worth.Especially since the leadership race rules are almost certain to favour those already sitting in the house,or who are the lifetime insiders.
al from calgary
said
to 53111
Do you actually think that the libs or ndp would actually support a 3 strikes law or mandatory 10 year sentences for gun crimes
to glen from arden
The green shift was brilliant Please, when Harper announced a 2 cent a litre reduction on excise tax for diesel fuel, a truck driver said that it would save him 55 dollars a month or 660 per year, under the green shift he would have paid an extra 192.50 per month or 2310 per year, not to mention his other rising costs for his home fuel how is that revenue neutral
To all the libs who want Mckenna as leader, aren't you the same ones who were complaining that Harper was to close to Bush, but its okay if Mckenna is in the Carlyle group with Bush that real pathetic, why don't you make up your minds if your pro Bush or anti Bush
David Dunlop
said
Paul in Brantford
said
I love getting taxed up the wazzo so they can tout their 'surpluses',and being considered an idiot because I'm not one of them and happen to have American friends.
RCR
said
Lucky_Eddie
said
Craig in Calgary
said
Look at the aftermath of the 2000 and 2004 elections. After the Canadian Alliance & Conservative party's lost their message was "Unfortunately Canadians did not accept our policies, we need to try better".
However, when the Liberals lost in 2004 and 2006 the message was basically "Canadians were tricked". Dion keeps saying that the attack ads did him in and caused the Conservative win, well that's basically him calling the voters "stupid for only watching TV".
He had TWO years to define himself, it is his own fault that Canadians did not accept him. Dion also explained the Green Shift 200 times during the campaign, every stump speech talked about his website and how many supposed tax cuts a voter would receive.
He cannot say that people did not understand the policy. He has to look at himself for his failures.
LDL Small town ONT
said
John Global
said
JF in the Peg
said
"lost voice in North America" - and slamming Americans at every chance is not a way to improve relationships.
Martin from NS
said
Diane M.
said
Eric
said
Stop whining about the Conservatives negative ad campaign and your lack of dollars. That is sandbox level justification that I would expect from my children. Perhaps you should admit that Canadians didn't like your platform and get on with making room for your replacement.
Don in BC
said
Paul
said
Paul
Vancouver
Brad - Edmonton
said
Michael (Ottawa)
said
The culture of entitlement continues to plague the Liberal party of Canada. It will takes enormous efforts to earn the respect and trust of the people which the Liberals have obviously lost.
Larry L
said
Well said. Thank you.
Bevan in Winnipeg
said
How do I know this? I am a retired research climatologist. What they spout is absolute crap but the media still gives them press.
Yes global warming is real. We are in large part responsible. The Arctic ice really IS melting very rapidly. Oh yes, I am a small C conservative.
Manchild
said
Bob Rae is your only hope against Harper. He will attract NDP voters and Conservatives are very scared of him. That's why they keep trying to scare you by saying that nobody in Ontario will vote for him. It's a trick and part of the Harper strategy of fear.
Walter
said
Concerned Torontonian
said
Until the Liberals learn they are NOT entitled to their 'entitlements' they will continue to be shut out of government. There isn't much point to re-painting the outside of a house if the foundation is about to collapse.
Holly
said
Scott - another voice from the west
said
Looks good on them
said
Brett
said