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Home : Top Stories : Investigation underway into debit card glitch

Investigation underway into debit card glitch

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Tue. Oct. 21 2008 4:15 PM ET

Debit card systems are back up and running after computer problems forced customers to pay with cash or credit cards at RBC-supported debit terminals nationwide Tuesday morning.

The problem affected all debit card users making purchases at RBC-supported point of sale machines at retail outlets and debit cardholders accessing funds at RBC ATM machines.

The network problem, which lasted nearly two hours, was resolved by 11:45 a.m. ET, RBC spokesperson Jackie Braden told CTV.ca on Tuesday.

"RBC clients experienced intermittent problems with point of sale and Interac and cash advance this morning, whereas other financial institutions were unable to access funds either by an RBC ATM or an RBC point of sale terminal," Braden told The Canadian Press.

Moneris, the company that connects to the Interac network, apologized for any inconvenience.

"Our switch was operating throughout the service interruption but there was a network problem which has been rectified. The interruption affected debit card processing not credit card processing," Brian Green, senior vice-president of marketing and gateway services at Moneris told The Canadian Press.

Moneris is the largest processor of debit card payments in Canada with more than 350,000 merchant locations and handles about three billion transactions each year.

Moneris and RBC are investigating the system outage.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Shamaro
said

Well that's a good way to help me stay at home and save my money!

The bad thing is, if I need to get cash, there's no way of getting it.

Just another sign, how independant we've all become on the electronic way of living. Makes me long for the good ole days of standing in line at the bank, to go and cash my cheque and actually have a conversation with a real human being.




Steve in Ottawa
said

Funny, my "debit" cards always work. They are the ones that have pictures of the Queen and Canadian Prime Ministers on them. I always get a good laugh when these things "go down". Cash is still king.


L.
said

Shamaro...You can still use ATM's and put thru credit card transactions, just not debit. I work in retail and my customers are not happy. Hopefully it comes back online soon.


SillY
said

You mean Dependant. Without innovation we would still be stuck in the stone age!


HungryInK-Town
said

This is terrible news! They had better get this fixed before lunch time, I don't know how else I'm expected to feed myself without the machines working. This is unacceptable!
Stephen Harper should do something about this!


Karen
said

You can still get cash...he article says you can still get a cash withdrawal from an ATM.....


Randy
said

As a merchant loosing sales left and right because of our dependence on plastic, do you think that Moneris would credit us a little something on the monthly fee we pay for their equipment...ya right. We have to pay their full fee regardless if we receive their service or not. Gotta love big business.


Elizabeth M
said

Shamarao,
If you need to get cash, you CAN still go into your banking institution and speak with someone. It does not say the computer systems (indicating how much money you have) are down. Just the third party way of accessing those funds...


INTERAC is the best
said

I can't remember the last time I talked with a teller.

I am glad that the machines in the bank are running because if I need cash I wouldn't be able to get it until after work and my bank is closed at 4:30.

I think I have $10.00 cash to my name right now. I believe most people my age (31) hardly carry any cash anymore. Interac is the best and only way to shop for me.


pp
said

Oh well have no money anyways :)

I wonder how much money people would actually save if they did not easy access to swip a card....

Just think - back when we did not have credit and interact I bet people actually were more conscious of their money...


Jonathan
said

... I went out at lunch and made 3 debit transactions without any problems. Some stores had signs saying the system was down, others did not. I went to the stores that didn't have a sign.


Anthony from Kentville NS
said

well explains why i could not access my debit card in the NSCC campus bookstore a couple hours ago!

thank god i had my credit card with me or i would have been screwed!


Doug BC
said

The good news is that the line up at Tim Hortons will be shorter.I'm amazed at how many people don't even have enough cash for a coffee and a bagel.
Aside from cash withdrawls and cheque deposits,I rarely use mine.Once a week I use the bank ATM to pick up coffee and bagel money for the week.It's easy,more efficient,keeps the busy lines at Tim Hortons moving and keeps my bank charges very low.
Debit cards seem like a good idea.But I think they are highly over used.


Ron B
said

Credit Cards ARE NOT working either. As a merchant we are down as far as all plastic transactions.


Vadim
said

Stephen Harper should do something about debit systems going down? I hope you're joking. I think he might have some slightly more important things to do, or at least I hope he does.

This is not really a huge deal, just use your cash or credit.


Cindy
said

LOL at HungryInK-Town XD

Fingers crossed they get it fixed before our first Debit customer comes in...or they have cash or a cheque. Thank god I took a $20 out on the weekend...I can still get my Mocha.


Edb
said

Cash is KING people !
When will you all learn.
Unless of course you prefer to have every purchase you make monitored by....whoever,
and paying for the privilege of doing so.



Don
said

Come on!! Moneris is only one processor. Of course a transaction is going to work if they use one of many other processors. Give your head a shake!


Don in edmonton
said

This is exactly why I keep some cash at home. If the whole system was to crash someday due to a virus or terrrorist attack and you can't use debit, charge, cash machines or get cash from the bank even for a couple of days a lot of people would be in trouble.


Chris Stoneburg
said

Thank God it's my day off :)

I work in retail and over 95% of our transactions are electronic.

Always a good idea to have some cash (real) on you for days like this.


DM in NB
said

"...Just another sign, how independant we've all become on the electronic way of living...."

Though I know you meant dependant, I still get the point.

Of course we are. How else could the government track our every move every day?


Chad
said

It seems to be hit or miss for me. I tried using my debit at the pumps at my local Shell station and it failed to go through. But when I went to the Mac's gas bar, it worked fine. Cash is dead, so I think Moneris should beef up their systems and add redundancies so that system wide outages don't happen. Especially now that the busy holiday season is creeping up on us,from my retail experience the system usually goes down now and again during the holidays, but it really shouldnt. I rarely goto the bank itself, and since Timmies started using pay-pass I havent carried cash in months. Cash is dead...


Toast
said

I never buy lunch at work because they dont take debit, save a few bucks and a few pounds lol


Joanne
said

Those folks who stuff their money into their mattresses may just be on to something!


Travis in Ottawa
said

To all people complaining about the outage, here is a piece of advise: Get over it, seriously. When computers are involved, there is always the chance that the system can go down, it is the inherent flaw of the technilogy. You can put as many redundencied in the system as you wish, but the possibly of crashing is always present. no matter how remote. Now to the commentator who wishes that good ole Steve gets involved, please give your head a shake will ya? ONE method of payment go down for a few hours, and you want the PM to get in on the action? Come on, I would much prefer he spend his tax payer funded time resolving REAL issues, not a temporary minor incovenience. As other have said, your money is still accessible, just not at remotre locations. To get to it, you have to do what EVERYONE had to 15-20 years ago: go to your bank, what a concept. So please, everyone, just relax, it's not like the world is coming to an end here.


Denise
said

I'm not worried, because I'm cheap and I don't buy coffee or lunch, I bring my own lunch and drink the coffee that's supplied at the office :).


Dee
said

I CAN'T BELIVE I HAD TO PUT BACK ALL OF MY GROCERIES I SPENT 2 HOURS SHOPPING FOR!!!!! That's what one lady screamed in my ear. I just had 10 people call me at the radio station I work at. They were all panicing. What does this say about the level of patience we have as a society? Also I didn't know the radio statio was the 911 of technical issues either. I just told them to calm down and find something called a bank. They didn't like that joke very much. When I reminded them there was drive thru...they felt a bit better.


pamela brooks
said

i love the technological age and I rarely go to a bank but when computers have glitches boy do they ever...


Darryl
said

As of 12:10pm Eastern our Debit machine seems to be working without any problems.

As for the people who blame Steven Harper for this when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with him, I say what else are you going to blame on him? 'Oh my dog has fleas! it's Harper's fault!' 'i got bologna and mustard for lunch it's Harper's fault!' GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE!!


Marie in Gatineau
said

I have to agree with 'pp'. We would probably be able to save more if we didn't have easy access to our entireaccount when we're in the store or online.


Yves
said

This is scarry to see all the stress and problem it created for 2 hours. IMAGINE a natural or human made disater and no access to cash/credit for days or even week(S) OH MY GOD!!!!!!
be prepared with some cash physicly avail. Just an Idea!!!


Erin
said

yay! i tried to buy a coffee this morning and my card didn't work. i thought it was just me but luckily it isn't. and i got a free coffee cause ethical bean is the bee's knees! (but i'll still go back and pay later)


Munro
said

I used Interac for every purchase until recently when I got my Scotia Gold VISA card. Now I put everything on it and earn points that I can actually use to get free things with!!! I pay off my credit card balance online within 2 weeks and pay no interest. I never thought I'd find anything cooler or more convenient than Interac until I got my gold card. Bye Bye Interac!


exAmerican
said

These comments are too funny. Keep some cash on hand at home for situations like this, then you won't have to run to the ATM every time you need $20. Imagine what will happen when systems go down for days at a time. By the way, the Interac system is not for our convenience, it's so that retailers and governments can find out at a moment's notice where we shop, when we shop, what we buy, and how much we spend. I reverted to paying cash for everything because I'm not happy with this intrusion into my spending habits, plus the bank fees are ridiculous. Hopefully today's glitch will wake people up to the fact that cash might just be the best way to go. Maybe if small retailers started passing their Interac charges along to their customers, we would come to realize how expensive this "convenience" really is. Remember, when something is convenient for YOU it means that somebody at the other end is tinkering with things, whether it be your food or your bank account.


Mo Kongo
said

They don't always tell the public that the network has been hacked.


Moi
said

No thanks, I'd rather have cold hard cash on me any time, I only use debit when absolutely necessary. It is rather sad to see all hell breaking loose when technology fails. It doesn't kill anyone to actually have some cash on them just in case.


Now I've seen it all in Vancouver
said

Hilarious, the remarks by some of these posters. My gosh, it seems Canadians are becoming as simple as Americans. What easy prey we will make!

Come on bankers, clean us out. We are at your mercy now, we can't even get lunch without your permission on our plastic.

Computer chips in your fingertips anyone?


Bryant @ High River
said

I always carry backup for situations like this.

Cash may be king but will it be that way forever? Nope. Networks may have vulernabilities but they will be fixed eventually and they will come back with better protection.


nc
said

Yes it has been shown that people are more careful with money when it's cash. I like the debit card system. Sometimes I overspend. I believe they do have a system where you upload cash on your card and when you have used it up. You have to get more money added to the card. This is almost like having real cash.


billcassells
said

it sucks!!i had to use my credit card to complete my transaction.not good!11


Michael
said

Good simulation for RBC; can't have customers accessing their funds in a future bank run, I guess they had to find out if they could turn off all those interfaces in one fell swoop.


j
said

A person can still go into the bank to make a withdrawl. One problem it takes so lonmg better to wait untill the machines are back up and running


BetaIotaMu
said

Electric money was the big bank's idea. So why do we all suffer and pay when it doesn't work. Ask any business person if they have ever received any compensation for lost business due to an outage of the debit system. Have you ever been compensated for your time or inconvenience when the system has cost you time and money?

I thought not.

Printed money - it's transportable, universal, secure (if you are careful) and reliable and the bank can't charge you a "fee" for using it. Cheques used to work, too - you can get defrauded with a credit card just as easily so don't dismiss them. There's always traveler's cheques, too. Why do we put up with this stuff?


D.K.
said

I can not believe this angst over the system going down for two hours. From 10:00 till noon the bloody banks are open, I can see the problem paying for a meal you have already consumed at 8:00 or 9:00 at night. This occurance is very rare. so let it go already.


jessbabyONT :)*
said

@ Shamaro.
You're completely right on, I agree.


Nicole from Ottawa
said

Debit card ??

Has to be the dumbest way to pay for anything.

Why anyone in their right mind would use one when you can pay with a credit card, use the bank's money free for a month and then get back 1-2 % back at the end of the year, is beyond understanding.


Martin Smith
said

I agree with a lot of the comments on here.

People have become to used to "convenience" and "the nanny state" that they will probably react VERY negatively to any sort of natural disaster with a prolonged outage of any services we have come to live with.

Think back to your parents or grandparents generation who had to live with war (certainly those in Europe) and the "inconvenience" of rationing, being bombed daily and nightly, regular power outages, crappy banking hours, and many, many other "inconveniences" - many of which were major, few of which were minor.

That generation got through just fine, and you will do just fine without your Double Foam Extra Cinnamon with Chocolate Shavings Latte for ONE DAY.

Money was still available at banks - people have just gotten too used to not carrying emergency supplies of anything (such as cash) and expect everything to work flawlessly all the time.



Munro
said

@Nicole from Ottawa

I'm with you on that! Well, since I got my VISA Gold card that is... Borrow the banks money for a month, earn cashback or rewards through points, pay NO interest by paying it off right away. CHA-CHING!!! To do it any other way you'd have to be dumb, or just not know about it yet.


LDL - Small Town ONT
said

Here is another observation. I save money with my debit card ! When I take out money at the ATM I can only get it in multiples of 20. So I take out the $ 20. Now I have cash. I use $ 10 of it for whatever it was I needed it for ( usually to give to someone or someplace that doesn't have a debit machine) What happens to the rest ? You guessed it. P****ed away on that bagel and coffee I didn't need.


Jim/ Calgary
said

I 'usually' use Debit but always have at $50 in the wallet in cash. I don't use debit if there is something about the establishment that doesn't seem quite right...'cash' can't be compromised.


Jen Chalklin
said

Not just today... my issue started Friday Oct 17th @ 4:30pm.
i attempted to withdraw at an ATM on my RBC card and received a message from the terminal "Transaction cannot be completed, contact your financial institution"
I contacted RBC at 5:30pm by phone and they couldn't find the glitch, nor a record of my attempt and said that it must have been an issue with the ATM i was using. My account was in good standing and no holds were in place. The CSR seemed to be bewildered. Since Friday, i have had the issue crop up 4 out of 6 attempts to use my card so it's been an intermittent problem since at least Friday.


GetReal
said

Wow. I'd like to respond to most of these comments, but that would take an eternity, an increased heart rate and a plethora of webspace. So, I'll limit my response to this:

Never will I voluntarily go back to the days of standing in line for 30+ minutes with 20+ people all waiting for our spot at a short-staffed bank counter surrounded by screaming babies and angry adults just to deposit my hard-earned paycheck. Or worse, just to get my available balance.

Funny how the people who couldn't ride a 2-hour outage are often the same people who think the banks are too intrusive.

If your money was GONE, I can see getting stressed out. Otherwise, continue living as you were before 10 am this morning.


Lex
said

This is no accident folks. RBC had been previously knocked out by hackers and I bet this was another hack on their system.
RBC need to grow up and protect it's clients and wealth.


Ole John
said

Just like the "good ole days", you get to the debit machine and it's closed!


Dave
said

I avoid using my debit card anyways. Way too easy for card skimmers to get access to all your bank accounts and credit info all from one card, or steal your identity using these things. Credit cards are a little safer, but Cash under the pillow is starting to look better every day !


Becky
said

We are far too dependent on ATMs and debit card use.
What happens if you're disabled, need food or medications - would a pharmacy give you credit cuz you don't have cash? No not likely.
IT is a very very scary situation - you have money but can't get to it and of course it always happens day banks are closed. Under the mattress is sounding more secure.

Sanitylost in Montreal
said

Remember that cash and credit cards are safer than debit cards. Cash can't be compromised and if your credit card is your liability is minimal, if your debit card is your in for some trouble. I get my cash at one of my banks ATMs and use it at retailers. Safer and no bank charges.


joe
said

just go get cash its the easiest way nothing irks me more when a guy at tim hortons pays using a debit card for a coffe and donut less then 3 dollars


Simple Solution
said

I have no idea why anyone would even use debit!! You have to pay a monthly fee for anything over 5 transactions a month, PLUS! there is no fraud protection whatsoever! Use credit people! And it isn't about saying "I have a $50,000 credit limit on my card so I can spend that much". Spend the amount of money you actually have but use a credit card to pay. Better yet, get one with rewards, it's a no brainer!

Debit:
-monthly fees
-no fraud protection
-no rewards
=Giving the bank free money!

Credit:
-Great fraud protection
-Free cards available
-Rewards
=The better choice!


AnnetteFergusson
said

I think this situation is a good reminder of just how dependant society has become on computers and technology in general.


Recluse
said

Everyone should be buying gold. Debit, credit and cash will all be useless when society breaks down. A few cans of beans and gun are also good investments ;)


DM
said

IT was just a problem with RBC debit cards - all the other banks were ok.

But those of you who suggest using credit cards due to their many advantages may not think so after PCI compliance forces the bank's credit cards and POS terminals to be EMV compliant. VISA will be compliant in Canada by Oct 2010 and all POS terminals must be converted by 2015. We will all have to input PIN numbers on every credit card transaction.

More "features" usually mean more bugs and more downtime.


Caren
said

Check out the newest Retail Council of Canada site, stopstickingittous.com.
Those who believe their new credit card is the way to go, it's not as free as you think. Merchants pay considerable fees for processing those credit card transactions. The majority of that money goes to the cardholder bank. As the bank portion of these fees keep going up, the merchant has to raise their prices to accomodate these higher costs. So, check out that new "premium" card you just got - it costs the merchant 0.20% to 0.66% more every time you use it! That is going to have to translate into higher ticket prices at the business location.


B. Kelly, Burlington
said

By paying with good old hard currency what I buy, where I buy it and how much I pay is information that remains unavailable. Most people don't stop to think that, when they use a debit card, everything that they consume is logged into a computer data base. How much alcohol you drink, whether or not you smoke, how far you drive, the brand, size and quantity of condoms you use, etc., etc. is all there for a few thousand people who work for your bank to look at any time they want to. If you believe all that public relations hype about how careful and competent your bank is then you would probably be interested in buying the Burlington Skyway for a good price. Trusting corporate Canada to safeguard your information and to resist the temptation to misuse it is like trusting a drug dealer with the keys to a pharmacy.


The Backpacker
said

For those of you highlighting the benefits to credit cards and the not so nice remarls about those who don't, have you considered that perhaps some people can't get credit cards? And perhaps some don't want them?

I fall into the latter category and while I realize that no credit isn't very good, there are other ways to build it.


bernie
said

You're all wrong.
It's spelled 'dependent'.


KC
said

To: Simple Solution

There are plenty of banks out there where you can have unlimited debit transactions and no fees!

Credit card...way too easy to rack up the bills and shocker, a huge interest if you don't pay in full every month. As far as rewards, there's always a catch somewhere.

Personally, I use cash whenever possible and use debit for bigger purchases. Credit card only when not enough cash nor debit machine is done and yes I pay it in a month.



fossilrob
said

We continue to move towards a cashless society and on occasion we have to deal with the consequences. We have to realize that we can't depend 100% on our cards - 99.9% of the time they available but when they aren't, all heck breaks loose. The banking establishments do take extraodinary measures to ensure that their systems are available however.
It is almost to the point that retailers demand id if you pay cash.
Now...if they could only start getting rid of those
pennies.


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