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Farmer guilty of contempt won't stop raw milk sales

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Oct. 20 2008 8:50 PM ET

Despite being found guilty of contempt of court for ignoring an order not to sell raw milk from his farm, an Ontario farmer says he'll continue the illegal sale.

Michael Schmidt asked for the maximum sentence possible after he was found guilty of contempt on Monday, but he said he won't stop his sales.

"Yes, we will continue with what we're doing," he said after the ruling. He and his supporters then gulped down glasses of milk, although it was unclear if the milk was pasteurized or not. Schmidt then compared his effort to sell raw milk to Mahatma Gandhi's fight against British imperialism and Martin Luther King's civil rights struggle.

"When Gandhi picked up the salt, he kept marching, and when Martin Luther started the Montgomery bus strike, he kept going until the law was changed," Schmidt said, according to The Canadian Press.

Selling unpasteurized milk is illegal in Canada and a judge had found that Schmidt circumvented the laws by selling "shares" in his dairy cows to consumers.

In finding him guilty of contempt, the judge called Schmidt's actions "not only illegal, but completely self-defeating." Justice Cary Boswell added that Schmidt has every right to try to make the sale of raw milk legal, but he must do so in a manner that's within the law. The judge also said Monday's ruling had nothing to do with the sale of milk, but instead focused on whether or not Schmidt knew he was defying a court order by continuing the raw milk sales.

Schmidt and his devoted consumers claim raw milk tastes better and say they have never suffered adverse health effects from drinking it.

Health officials say raw milk can carry bacteria such as salmonella, E. coli and Listeria monocytogenes, which carry serious, and sometimes deadly, health consequences.

Schmidt has operated his co-operative organic dairy farm near Owen Sound, Ont., for more than 20 years.

The judge did not sentence Schmidt on Monday and did not indicate when such a decision would be made. The Crown is not asking that Schmidt serve jail time, but Schmidt himself asked the judge to impose "the highest penalty you can find."

Schmidt also faces other legal troubles. He is set to go to trial in 2009 on 20 charges laid by the Ministry of Natural Resources and the Grey-Bruce Health Unit.

In November 2006, Ministry of Natural Resources officials raided Schmidt's farm and seized farming equipment and computers. He was subsequently charged with failure to obey a written order barring him from making and storing raw milk products.

Schmidt lost 50 pounds after embarking on a hunger strike in 2006 to protest the charges.

He ended the protest by bringing a cow to the steps of the Ontario legislature. He drank a glass of milk immediately after milking the cow.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

V. Joe
said

This should be a very interesting case- with there being so many benefits to raw milk, I hope this case makes it to the supreme court, if a precedent isn't set in a lower court.

It's disappointing when laws that primarily protect industry are touted as consumer protection. Pasteurization is great for the dairy industry- it allows them to save money on feed, animal care, and lengthens the shelf life of their products!



Nan
said

You have to wonder how anyone ever survived life without government intervention. People drinking milk straight from the cow. Imagine! Our ancestors would be laughing themselves silly.


Getrude
said

Leave him alone. Those who buy it know the risks they are taking.
I buy raw milk and it is waaaayy better.


Kris
said

I hope this guy takes the Ministry to the cleaners. Since when is it their business if people want to buy unpasteurized milk?

It's supposed to be a free country; there is rising anger at government constantly forcing us to do what's "best" for us.


Robert Brise
said

Raw Deal

This isn't a case about the possibility of getting sick from raw milk its a case of the retailers and dairy companies getting scared that they'll be cut out of their government protected profits.
20 to forty years ago just about everyone in rural Canada drank raw milk with no adverse effects, and some still do is the government going to arrest everybody?


Trent
said

Our tax dollars hard at work.


CYL
said

Years ago, having the real thing was a norm, I use to see my father drink it, now everything is being chemical enhanced which is probably what's causing cancer and other ailments, and they want to charge this farmer. Why not charge the people who drink it too.


BP
said

Personally I wouldn't buy it, guess I'm brainwashed against it, but the people buying it if they know there is a risk (and I would bet the risk is extremely small) why shouldn't they be able to? They are adults, we are becoming such a nanny state. Personally I would be more afraid of sandwich meat and fast food outlets. I was in one last night and I don't think the floors or counters had been cleaned all day.

If they outlawed it what were the statistics of infection or did some bureaucrat make this rule because they only think there is a risk.

As a closing to this the risk of decontamination is through the handling, are things clean etc.


JP
said

Pasteurized milk is poison...and no one realizes it. We feed it to our kids and they become all mucusy, wheezy, sick with swollen tonsils, tonsillitis, colds and flus. And everyone thinks being THIS sickly is a normal part of being a child.

Above poster is correct to say that it is dairy lobby that is most threatened by this...can't have farmer's getting directly paid for their work by an informed consumer now, can we?


carey
said

Raw milk made me ill for a very long time. Many risks to drinking it. I for one agree with the government needing to step in at times. The type of steriods and such they use on today's animals ARE NOT the same cows as your grandfather's.


Lance Chalmers
said

True to form,..the government is perpetuating fear of illness from a product that is better for you than any pasteurized junk on the market. The dairy board ... should drink what they preach,..because it's obvious the dairy board sells milk like petroleum distillate. That's a whole other scam.


Lance Chalmers
said

True to form,..the government is perpetuating fear of illness from a product that is better for you than any pasteurized junk on the market. The dairy board ... should drink what they preach,..because it's obvious the dairy board sells milk like petroleum distillate. That's a whole other scam.


korie
said

i grew up on 'raw milk' and i am a healthy, happy well adjusted person. there is nothing wrong with drinking milk straight from the cow (warm fresh milk is the only eat cornflakes without adding heaps of sugar!) and if people want to buy it then our big brother government should take a step back.


Mike
said

Hey! What a surprise! The government is sticking it's nose in other people's business!

I for one don't drink raw milk because of the health risks, i'd much rather be safe(r) and drink 2%

If these people want to drink raw milk, health risk and all, or medical benefits and all (didn't do much research), then let them


The Bet
said

I agree with Gertrude that raw milk is far better than any pasteurized milk. Had it once in my life and I would drink it again if I knew the farmer and his practices.


Yoyoma
said

I wish i could raise my kids on raw milk as I was raised. I never had the earaches, flu, etc etc. I'm not saying that's becuase of the milk, but much like chicken, cows are pumped full of chemicals to make them produce milk. It's sick really! It's about time the government stopped protecting the Milk marketing board and the ridiculous rules!



rational
said

To all you proponents out there, lets not forget the health care costs that will be carried by the public (you) if many people DO become sick from a food borne illness......


100 years ago it world fine - we are here arent we
said

This is overhanded BIG BROTHER bullying tactics by the Ontario Liberal government.

If this guy wants to drink and sell whole milk fresh from the cow that should be his business. Who said BIG BROTHER is always right?




Annie
said

What do Health Officials really know? My whole family grew up on raw milk for generations. What did this world ever do before Health Officials came along?


J
said

What gets me is this has nothing to do with the health of people drinking raw milk. They are going after this farmer for "selling" raw milk. It's all to do with protecting the Ministry and Dairy Board.

If you have your own cow you are free to drink raw milk. There is no law against that. Schmidt tried to get around the law by selling shares in the cow, thereby giving you ownership and the right to drink the milk.


Gilles
said

I think the Government has forgotten it's suppose to work for the people, not againts them. What's next, taking farmers to court who sell their farm fresh eggs?


JP
said

...The public ALREADY carries the health care costs of millions of children sick at the doctor's with ear aches, colds, flus, tonsillitis and tonsillectomies due to the overburdening of their immune system with the mucus produced from drinking pasteurized milk.
Our parents and grandparents grew up on raw milk, and I urge you to ask them if there were as many sick kids as there are today. It correlates. ...



AK in Hamilton
said

"What gets me is this has nothing to do with the health of people drinking raw milk. They are going after this farmer for "selling" raw milk. It's all to do with protecting the Ministry and Dairy Board.
"

I find that attitude interesting; do you feel, then, that the police would be best put to use hunting down every frat party and back-alley drug user? Or should they track down the people supplying the drugs, in an effort to stem the problem at its source?


Shawn
said

The way I see this, if a person knowingly buys raw milk because they prefer it to unpasteurized, then who cares. I would be more concerned if this guy was selling the milk as pasteurized when it is not.

At the same time, rational is right by saying that we as the tax payer will have to pay for any illness incurred by this action.

To make everyone happy, legalize raw milk and change law to make an illness that can be attributed to drinking raw milk (or smoking, etc) a self inflicted injury that becomes the finanical burden of the person who caused it.


Steve
said

I deal with raw milk every day. I do the micro tests. If you want to drink raw milk be my guest... but you should pay for your hospital stay.This is why we have "big brother" policies, to keep people who don't know any better from becoming drains on our medical system. Carey said it right these are NOT our grandfathers cows


Mark in Montreal
said

I think raw milk should be regulated, because frankly, we shouldn't allow raw milk to be sold without some kind of verification to the "authenticity" of the animal. If the raw milk is from a cow souped up on genetic enhancements, drugs, steroids, and other weird stuff, then that raw milk will be a poison.

I say, raw milk if you prove to me the cow is 100% all natural cow.


Vijay
said

Growing up I drank unpasteurized cow's milk and never suffered measles and those other child illnesses. And I would continue drink it if I could find a farmer that produced it without the use of steroids, etc.

I would even make my own yogurt, and some other products that is made from raw milk rather than buy all those over-processed, radiated and empty calories milk products sold in stores - cancer foods, as I call them.

That being said, this is a political decision to protect big corporations who will lose profits from cheese, milk, yogurt, etc.

Granted, the milk from cows today contain steroids and other chemicals. but ask yourself the question, does the pasteurized milk sold in stores NOT contain steroids and other chemicals? Do you think pasteurization removes steroids and other chemicals?

If the products produced by big corporations are so safe then why all the recalls, why Listeriosis (?), why does lettuce sold have E.Coli?

And last but not least, for those scientists who assert the minimum acceptable levls of poisons and radiation in our food, Would you feed those foods to your kids? Probably not!


Frunk
said

Know what? Why not allow the sale of raw milk? after people sign a waiver that if they contract any affect from the raw milk they will have to pay all medical costs and would be exempt from free medicare treatment. I'm betting that would turn them off.


Laura M
said

Does anyone remember now the death toll of young children who drank unpasteurized milk before this became a common practice? That is why it became illegal. Freedom of choice should not be used as an arguement for disobeying the law.


MM
said

Pasteurization is a process of heating the milk to kill off bacteria followed by a quick cooling. Only vitamins A&D are added to milk. No 'chemicals' or drugs are added by the manufacturer. Antibiotics and hormones are added by the farmer not the manufacturer.
Now if you want to risk your life/health by consuming unpasteurized milk then go ahead. But, for the record, people DID die in the past due to food bourne illnesses but the technology wasn't available to isolate the reasons for the deaths back then.


Dennis L. Krahn
said

I grew up on raw milk, am now into my sixties and felt better then when I drank that milk, ate vegetables that weren't sprayed with chemicals and ate meat products that came from animals not pumped full of accelerants.


RT
said

So it's OK to sell cigarettes (which are proven to cause cancer), "joints" (wackey tabacky) for medical treatment, hard alcohol. What do these 3 have in commom....taxable!
So let's tax a natual substance that has been consumed for thousands of years, and then the gov will be happy, and we can have something healthy. I beleive that some of our health trouble are coming from being too "healthy"! There are "good bugs" out there that protect us, but they are "banned" so are not there to help us fight disease.
Put a warning sign, and let people buy raw milk!


Kathy
said

People try to say that Canada is a free nation,{its getting just as bad as the States}.Yet when it comes to natural foods and suplements Health canada seems to think it knows whats best for us and treats us like children.I avoid buying pasturized anything,it removes the natural nutrients.I'm begining to think that the idea of population control isnt so far off.Feed us drugs,hormones and vaccines that are loaded with a plethera of toxins and take away natural whole healthy foods that keep our immune systems naturally strong.Natural foods are bad but chemicals and perservatives in everything isnt a problem.Give me a break.Our forefathers would be horrified at this level of stupidity.The gov whines and snivels about the so-called health crisis yet they want to take away the only things that will truely keep us healthy.How many athletes are on pharmaceuticals.The gov would rather spend 100 billion on some rediculous study carried out by the pharmaceutical industry than use common sence.The bottom line is its all about $$$$$$.
Its pretty pathetic when we have a justice system that allows criminals to go free and throws an inocent farmer in jail.The stupidity is just frightening.


More than Meats the Pharm eyes.
said

Pharmaceutical! Thats the point in pasteurized milk, not only milk but meat. The whole system is based on it. I wonder what the government will do if he resort to bartering his milk? Instead of shares?


jason
said

I think its great that people should be given options, not be forced down their throat.

Canadian Federal and Ontario Government should provide and encorage the suppliers to supply his milk instead of blocking it. If people can have the option why not. Shouldn't this be part of the real GREEN SHIFT. Lets become greener before


Paul in Ottawa
said

I grew up on a dairy farm and grew up on raw milk. As long as people know what they are getting, let them make their own choices.


AlSask
said

The government taxes and regulates alot worse - cigarettes - a known carcinogen. Why can't the product be sold and appropriately labelled with warnings just like cigarettes? Raw milk deadly? We pay for treatment of countless diseases directly associated with cigarette consumption. I'll gladly pay for some treatment for lactose intolerance.....


Connie
said

I say give the man what he has asked for, afterall he knows best.


Number Cruncher
said

Until you've eaten whipped cream skimmed fresh from raw milk, you haven't lived. Or home made ice cream made with fresh raw whole milk, with walnuts & maple syrop... wow!


Michel (Ottawa)
said

Why do we even drink milk at all? To me it's nothng more than another source of fat that our society surely doesn't need. How many other mammals out there drink the milk from another species? If this was meant to be, we'd all have horns, 4 legs and an udder. ;-)


dre
said

is it really all that suprising that the government is trying to dictate what we put into our bodies? I believe people have a choice in what they eat. If people choose to drink un-pasturized milk, they are doing it with knowing the adverse affects it may have, but more importantly, they are drinking it because of the healthy effects it has. Just put a warning about salmonella and ecoli and listeria on the label to reduce risk of any potential lawsuits, just like any other company. Why would we want to stop people from eating organic products, is the government in favor of forcing everyone to eat pesticide filled foods?



ripperjack
said

So I take it that if these people get sick the rest of us will be required to pay for their treatment even though it was a decision they made despite knowing the health risk...just like with smoking?


Robin the Hood
said

The only reason they donot sell raw milk here is because of poor inspections.. France sells raw milk products - legally imported here as well - due to better inspection system. Much healthier as well. Glad this farmer is making a point but its wrong in that the risk to health here is still a valid issue and will not change until Canada implements a better inspection system! We're in the dark ages when it comes to food safety.



Doug
said

There were 6 kids in our family when I grew up. We all drank raw milk from our cows. None of us had any health issues due to this. My mother sold milk to neighbors and people from town, no one ever had a problem.

This guy has an organic farm, which should mean no steroids or antibiotics.

I can't believe our ministry doesn't have any bigger fish to fry! With all the recent issues such as the Maple Leaf thing and the melamine milk thing from China they still choose to tackle the little guy who is actually introducing wholesome food to the market place!

I shake my head.


Doug BC
said

The issue is NOT about the sale of the milk.It IS about the contempt of court,and who has jurisdiction over the sale of milk.
If the laws surrounding the sale of milk are to be challenged,there is a course of action to follow.And it can be followed to the highest court in the land.
From here,it's hard to see how he is not guilty of "contemp of court".
Government is often held responsible for issues that affect the health of it's citizens.The same burden of proof we apply to things like DDT,or BPA can easily be applied to milk.Just make your case and take it through the proper channels.
But,contempt for those who are appointed to enforce the laws is not the right path to a just solution.


Kurt S. in Barrie
said

It;s amazing how many people speak there mind in this column and have no idea what the difference is between raw milk and pasterized milk. Before you speak, read up on it !


James C
said


Lets have the government ban McDonalds. How about ban cigarettes as well. What about alcohol, get rid of it.

TV and video games contribute to obesity so outlaw that as well.

Skiing can be dangerous, make it illegal.

And how about if anyone participates or consumes such that they be denied publicly funded health care. They are on their own.

Sounds pretty ridiculous, eh.

More erosion of personal freedom. Big brother watching over us and lording over us.




Maria Koenen
said

I am sick and tired of our government interfering with people's rights. If we or anyone wants to drink raw milk that is up to the person in Question. I grew up on raw milk, so did my Mom and grand parents. I am 78 now, my one grandmother passed away 2 day's before turning 102, my other grand parents passed away at the age of 99 years old and my mother one week away from turning 90 years old. So it should be thrown out of court and anybody who wants to drink raw milk should be entitled to do so.


Paul G. Masse
said

So if people drink raw milk and get sick then we all pay though OHIP.

Avoiding pasturization is a logical as refusing imunizations and drug injections.

Two diseases are directly transferrable even before symptoms appear in the milking cow: Undulent fever and TB.

From experience I know how dibilitating Undulent Fever (contagious abortion) Bangs disease can be. It is not worth the risk and we should all be glad someone is monitoring to ensure that the population stays healthy.


Leslie
said

Many of these laws and practices (e.g. pasturization of milk and vaccinations for common diseases) came to pass because people were getting sick and dying from food-borne illnesses and simple childhood ailments. People had been dying from these illnesses for hundreds of years, that is why ways were found to keep people healthier, not by big businesses looking to make a fast buck. We are so insulated from these health problems that we no longer take them seriously and look at attempts to enforce these precautions as infringements on our freedom.
Yes, there are many families on dairy farms that daily consume the raw milk they produce. They generally do this without ill effect because they have built up immunities to anything that might be in the milk both from their close contact with the cows and from consuming the raw milk. This still does not prevent them from occassionally becoming ill from consuming the raw milk. The average person in Canada will not have this immunity. When they become ill, trying to back track and definitely proving their illness because they drank raw milk may be very diffiult, thus negating any chance of them assuming responsibility for their own medical risks from this behaviour.
Also, allowing one farmer to sell raw milk opens the door to others who may not follow safe parctices for the producing and handling of milk, resulting in more food-borne illnesses.


Murray McCarthy
said

Let them drink raw milk. But if they show up at the emerg. they should pay the bill themselves. People who deliberately engage in high risk behaviour should have their own insurance or pay the bill themselves. Let them do what they want


Juanita
said

Oh brother - so sad to see that so many people believe unpasteurized milk is like poison...I personally grew up on it and have survived into my mid 40's. Perhaps next we will have to cook all of our vegetables before we eat them because there might be a bacteria on them? Heat kills bacteria, but it also destroys nutrients..


Jamie
said

When I grew up on a farm we didn't sell our raw milk - we gave it away to those who paid for parking!


G.J.M. CALGARY AB.
said

BEWARE OF RAW MILK, WHEN I WAS A YOUNG BOY MY PARENTS BOUGHT RAW MILK FROM A LOCAL FARMER AND HIS HERD HAD TB. . WE WERE INFECTED WITH TB. I SPENT A TIME IN THE WILLOW CHEST TB. WARD IN VANCOUVER TO TAKE THE CURE SO THAT WOULD BE APOSSIBLE REASON NOT TO DRINK UNPASTURIZED MILK.



james
said

Humans are the only mammal that drink another mammal's milk. There is good reason for government regulations regarding pasturization; its not natural to drink cow milk.

If the government did nothing, I bet there would be 100 posts asking why they did nothing.


Albertan
said

I really don't see what the problem is with him selling raw milk. As long as it is stored properly it is fine. What the government doesn't want you to know is that pasteurized milk can still be dangerous if it is improperly stored.


David
said

The reason unpasteurized milk is banned is that if there is an outbreak from consuming it, our health care system gets to foot the bill. I wouldn't care if someone chooses to eat or drink any product the government has banned, if the person who consumed had 'opted out' of using our health care if something went wrong. Same for smoking, etc. Since that will never happen, the milk gets banned. In any society, there is a tradeoff between freedom and reasoned restrictions on that freedom.
This is such a case.


Tori
said

"Health officials say raw milk can carry bacteria such as salmonella, E. coli and Listeria monocytogenes, which carry serious, and sometimes deadly, health consequences"

Ecoli, is found in Grade A inspected ground beef and recently Harvey's in North Bay. How many times have we been told by the media that ecoli has been found in tomatoes, bean sprouts and green peppers?

Salmonella can be found in raw eggs as well as in any restaurant where someone did not wash their hands appropriately.

Listeria, as we just were informed by Maple Leaf Foods, is everywhere. It is found in soil and water. Our vegetables could be infected with Listeria.

This is a bogus charge. Risks are associated with how the food is handled. These cows are probably handled more carefully than the many cows that are put onto automatic milkers in large dairy farms. Probably why milk has to be pasturized so that the soil on the animals do not kill us.

Another example of how government regulation is not always the right thing to do.


Dr. Jonathan Joyce
said

What is a democracy? Allow me to disillusion you at the expense of being true to an ideal that is no longer real:

We, the herded (pardoning pun) populace are indeedly free; that is, we are free to do exactly as we are told. Say a prayer for Mr. Schmidt. He's dealing with those who cannot tell their nose from their toes (which is a nice way of saying what I really mean). Poor guy.

Good on CTV for having the courage to even let us in on the shilly shenanigans our so-called PTB seem so rabidly intent upon pursuing. The world's melting down; perhaps our judiciary might get a reality gripe. That'll happen when the cows keel over. Riiiiiiight!


PrairieDog-prairies
said

I grew up on the farm drinking milk we milked right from the cow daily. We skimmed the milk of it's cream the day after milking... and amongst other things, made butter with it. I'm only 38 years old, so it wasn't so long ago. I still know people who milk a cow for their own use. Sheesh...imagine what our grandfathers and great grandfathers would think. When I return to my small farm to retire, I will have a cow there for that exact reason. There's no milk like it. lol


Garett
said

JP - I agree with the majority of the other comments stating that banning the sale of raw milk is absurd. I'm a hobby-chef and would love to be able to get my hands on raw milk without having to raise the cow myself. I'm an adult and am able to make my own health choices.

However, clearly you have no idea what pasteurization is. Pasteurization is heating ("cooking") the milk to a high temperature in order to kill any present bacteria. The only adverse effects are that lactic bacteria can be beneficial in culinary practices (good luck making sour cream with no lactic bacteria present in the milk). But the health implications are nil. There is no added chemicals or anything. Claiming that children contract influenza and tonsillitis etc. as a result of pasteurized milk is just as absurd as banning the sale of raw milk in a so-called "free" country. If you desperately need a scapegoat then my first suspect would be additives, preservatives and processed foods (though what we really need are studies of long-term exposure. Not knee-jerk reactions). Pasteurization is innocent from a medical point of view.


Graeme
said

While I don't think raw milk should be sold in common grocery stores where people may accidentally purchase it, in a case like this where people are going out of their way to get it, clearly know what they are getting and know the risks, I don't see why the government needs to intervene.


Claude
said

I agree with CYL....to many ailments going `round...allergy to this, allergy to that. 30 years ago you never heard of so many cases of lactose intolerance, and allergies to peanuts, etc...Health Canada is making us sick!! Hey...about going after beekeepers that sell honey at Farmer`s markets on the weekend?


milk drinker
said

I don't really know what I am talking about here,so if I am all wrong,please forgive !

As a city boy growing up in London,U.K. all the milk we had delivered (giving my age away)had about 3" of cream on the top of the bottle and our mom had us shake it first to mix it up....
Can't get that anymore....is that because of the processing mentioned here?
Miss that stuff...it was really GOOD!


FarmED
said

Imagine...our justice system hard at work yet again. I sure do wonder what people did in the good old days when processed milk was unavailable...hmmm...


JP
said

@Garret
There is certainly a large effect that pasteurization has on raw milk.
I urge you to do the research, simply through the net, on the effects of processing of milk. Yes it is true that it (pasteurization) kills bacteria, but I would ask you, what else does it kill? If it kills bacteria, what else, and how else, does it modify what is "good" in the milk? Honestly ask yourself that question and honestly consider that there may be an answer to it, or many answers.
It is quite ride to say I have no idea what pasteurization is...I know exactly what pasteurization is through both growing up on a dairy farm, from sampling and testing raw vs. pasteurized and performing human and animal trials on myself and family and other farm animals. You would be surprised to learn that a calf will die from drinking pasteurized milk. Does this not say something about the question I asked above, if pasteurization is not doing more to modify the milk than "simply kill off the bad bacteria"?

Trust me, the research is out there, in all the well respected medical journals, and in all the experiences of farm folk like myself, the subject of this court trial, our grandparents, etc.


pat
said

Laws are created to bow to the lowest common denominator – the one person who will drink the raw milk, get sick and sue everyone including the government for not protecting them. If there was a way to sign a waiver saying I understand the risk and take full responsibility for drinking this product then fine, let them drink what they want, as long as I have that paper in my hand to protect me from the lowest common denominator.


canophone
said

To be factual, I'd say pasteurized milk is unhealthy. I don't drink it because of this.


Mike in Manitoba
said

Notice everyone, this is an organic farmer, no chemicals to worry about. This is not about raw milk, it is about the government protecting its monopoly on the hardworking farmer, and collecting tax dollars through the milk marketing board. Those of you posting concerns about raw milk and health care costs... You mean like the processed meats and lysteria, they didn't effect our health care costs at all. Raw milk is a natural product, and any farmer should be allowed to sell the products of thier labours what ever it is to whomever they please. Egg producers, milk producers and grain farmers must sell thier products to government organizations or face the penalty of law. IT is illegal to sell to anyone they choose. Sounds a whole lot like communism to me.


Jonathan
said

If the government was so concerned about peoples health, then perhaps they should ban the sale of cigaretts?


Canuck in Bellingham WA
said

The government gets most of its money from industry; certainly they pay a bigger cheque than individuals do. Governments are prostitutes who know where to get their pockets lined.

That said, please note that these health regulations have been a major part of the greatly increased life expectancy of most people.

And yes, living out in the country drinking unpasteurized milk far from the pollution of cities is mostly fine. But all these people who think there is a correlation between unpasteurized milk and immunity are kidding themselves. Its as stupid as the "immunizations cause autism" rant; it has to be someone's fault; I need someone to blame.



NW
said

When you live in a country with publicly funded health care I think "free" choices become more complicated. In the end people's choices can end up costing us all a lot of money.


pp
said

Of course as a Nurse I do know the real hazards of drinking unpasturized dairy products.

Salmonella and other bacteria can cause life threatening diseases.

But on the other hand being a farm girl I do know that like anything the healthier and more robust you are the less likely you will get sick from these things.

Unfortunately the issues is also the fact that people are NOT used to consuming these products - their bodies have not built up an immunity to such pathogens. It's like drinking well water - I drink my water all the time - we have had people drink our water and get sick - there is nothing wrong with the water when it shows a reading of '9' for choloform but some people are not used to it and get sick.

Of course these are always city people who drink chlorinated water :)

Over all though people should know that pasturizing milk has saved more lives over the years than it has harmed (I cannot find any literature on harm from pasturizing).

And those that say pasturizing ruins milk - not so there is no difference between raw and pasturized milk...



Tim in Calgary
said

How did humanity ever survive before government regulation of our food industry? Miserably, of course. Thyphoid fever, scarlet fever, diptheria and other diseases were all common milkborne illnesses in the 1800's. We survived as a species, but I don't expect it was very pleasant.

It's all well and good to wax philosophic about freedom of choice, but I didn't hear that argument too often during the listeria outbreak last month. After all, those people should have known the dangers, and could have made a different choice.




pp
said

Hmmmm

Just to clarify - there is no law against drinking raw milk - only selling it.

If you have your own cows or even goats then go ahead and drink your own milk.

BUT you cannot sell it.

REMEMBER - If you were to sell it and a large population of people, who became sick with e-coli or salmonella, etc, then the general population is footing the bill.

If you alone are drinking the milk then one or two people sick is no drain on the health but dozens now that's costly... That is my hard earned money now going towards caring for these sick people.

And anyways if you are drinking it all the time your system is likely used to it. The worry is those people who are not immune to the pathogens.


JSpratt
said

To all ill informed people touting raw milk as being safe.

Its not the raw milk that is the hazard, its the cow manure and other contaminates that get into the milk after it leaves the teat.

This is a severa hazard.


crystal
said

I think WE should have the option to purchase any product "au naturel". I have a greater fear of buying anything from our grocery stores than to have ever bought from a farmer. I didn't grow up on unpaterized cow's milk but my mother and her 16 siblings did (along with butter and cream, farmed vegeables and fruits) and they are far better off health-wise. I did however enjoy the meat of our own cows and pigs as my parents had a hobby farm when I was growing up and I will tell any one with full-truth in my words that the meat you get from grocers shelves tastes nothing like what has been raised on your own farm. There is NO COMPARISON. I think since organic product are no widely avaiable in stores, organic milk should be allowed. The processed junk like food, many medicines and yes, even some immunizations are silently and not-so-silently harming more people than the rich bounty that was put on our earth for our nourishment. If mankind would stop messing with things that are already perfect, maybe there would be so many diseases.


HEATHER
said

THOSE OF US WHO CONSUME RAW DAIRY PRODUCTS ARE BY FAR HEALTHIER FOR IT. STOP LIVING IN FEAR OF THE WHAT IF!


Becky
said

I am 73 and was raised on
unpasteurized milk. So?????????


A Prairie Girl
said

Way to go James. To go even further we are the only mammals who drink milk at all after we are weaned (our own or anothers). As far as the debate about pasteurization it could go on, well, until the cows come home!


Northern Menace
said

No one wants the government to get involved - until someone gets sick, or the stock market goes down. Then everyone blames the government the for not regulating the bejesus out of the industry.


Melissa
said

I grew up on fresh milk that came from organic cows,no poisonous vaccines,no hormones,no antibiotics,the cows werent unnaturally impregnated and forced to be pregnant their entire lives and the cows could roam free. Healthy organic cows dont get TB because they dont have vaccines in their system to supress the immune system.Just like people who eat healthy whole organic foods dont get diseases.Since when does formaldehyde,antifreeze,agricultural fungicide etc...cure disease.Thats only a tiny fraction of the toxins in vaccines.I refuse to eat anything but certified organic anything.There is nothing like natural milk.Read the ingredients list on sour cream,yoghurt{what a joke} and cream there are additives.Ever make your own butter.Oh my,you will never want to go back.I cant help but wonder what would happen if doctors told sheeple that jumping off of bridges was the secret to good health.
Big brother needs to mind his own business and stop infringing on peoples right to choose.I agree this is all about money and nothing else.The egg farmers have been trying to push out the organic egg farmers for years.This is no different.


MORE MILK PLEASE
said

The government is ALWAYS putting their nose where it doesn't belong. This is SUPPOSED to be a FREE COUNTRY! lEAVE US ALONE!! If we want to buy pure milk, that's our choice - not the government's. Stay out of our personal lives!


rural gal
said

THIS IS HILARIOUS!!! When melamine appeared in the food chain people screamed at govenment for not protecting our food supply. Now you tell government to butt out. Pasteurisation protects your health and safety of the milk. For you young pups who were born in the last 50 yrs you don't know how sick you can get.


Dave in Surrey
said

I can't believe you people, no one ever had the flu or an ear ache before pasterized milk... I can't believe someone actually said that... Will you people say anything to make your point believable?


Jspratt
said

"Healthy organic cows dont get TB because they dont have vaccines in their system to supress the immune system"

What?

A vaccine does not suppress the immune system, it actually encourages it!

Please go back and take a biology 101 course!


J M White, Brantford
said

A century ago raw milk was a major source of infections, including listeriosis, the same bacteria that's caused the current uproar in the food industry. If you want to drink raw milk, raise your own cow to milk. I have had raw milk, it tastes good because it is fresh. But I wouldn't drink it everyday, because the health risks are real. A number of people in First World modern society are against pasteurization, vaccination, antibiotics, chlorinated water,and other "unnatural" processes. Why don't we just stop doing all these horrible things to our food,water and bodies, so that we can revert back to the good old days of cholera, polio, listeriosis, smallpox, measles, death from gangrene, abscesses and pneumonia, etc. Our life expectancy would plunge, too. Oh, but you wouldn't have to go back 100 years to see all this, just go visit any of the war torn 3rd world countries where this type of reality exists now, in the 21st century. Modern medicine and public hygiene practices have made a HUGE difference in our daily lives, but we've had it so good for so long, we don't realize how lucky we really are.


SK
said

I also grew up on a dairy farm in Southern Ontario and drank raw milk...and had no adverse affects from it.
Now, away from the farm, I have an intolerance to 'storebought' milk and can't digest it properly.
Can't we make our own decisions without the government regulating everything we do?


Gord Edmonton
said

The people who scream about government interference in food production are the same ones who cry out that the government didn't do enough about the listeria contamination problem. Didn't anyone read the news about Quebec's listeria outbreak caused by eating raw milk cheese??



james
said

So, is it fair to suggest that anyone who drinks raw milk should be denied access to medical treatment as a result of a disease obtained from drinking it?



mark
said

For some years I manage to buy the raw milk (officially for pets) and i manage to steal it from them before they can even touch it and drink myself. I SEE THIS AS A PROTECTIONISM POLICY for the quota industry existing on this market - and nothing else.

For those fearing of paying my health bill - you pay them for those who get heart desease as a result of whole industry promoting the fatty foods in huge portions and nothing can be done in this case??? How can you compare those poor people being "invited" by commercials allowed publicly to this situation? If I want to buy the milk and the decision of purchase is fully conscious where the client is being informed and trusts the source than what? Did you stop the Walkerton by seemingly 'perfect regulation" or recent dying from "healthy" industrially produced meat? Who is paying the bills here? I wish the culprits - but this is not the case.

There is too many efforts to make "idiot proof" environment without leaving the freedom of common sense.

So for now - time to get back from my pets to get what they do not deserve... which is raw milk.


Jasper
said

I suspect this has more to do about protecting the quota system rather than the health of consumers.

In case you are not aware, farmers cannot sell milk unless they own "quota". This is a protectionist measure that limits the amount of milk production and milk producers in the country.

I grew up on a farm and had to drink raw milk as a kid. You couldn't pay me to drink it now. Yuk.


maggie c
said

My son was raised on raw goats milk.

There must be antibodies? in the milk, same as mothers milk that help babies.

I didn't breast feed as my son is adopted, he is now in his 40's, very healthy.

Thank you for reading this.


Marilyn Idle, LLB, Wellness Consultant
said

Informed freedom of choice ...Many people say if you drink raw milk, and get sick, then pay your own medical. What about those who are injected animal and feotus dna (vaccine), ...and those who smoke, drink alchohol, pharmacy and illegal street drugs which ...injure hundreds of thousands a year? I think we should all pay our own medical. Then we would empower ourselves to be using common sense, to use more self-care to create wellness.
No matter which poisons we eat or breath in or get hurt by... they key is... do we have a well body that can return to health quickly.

Perspective and common sense must be applied to each decision we make, -not more and more controlling and imprisioning state laws.



bl
said

We are all concerned about the cost of diseases and sickness from raw milk, but has anyone checked out the side effects -including sickness and death - caused by drugs (which have been cleared by the government)Maybe if we would learn to live in a more natural world with less drugs and chemicals we would be a healthier generation. We hear over and over about the amount of chemicals we carry in our bodies, but we still seem to want to ingest those same chemicals, supposedly to make us and keep us healthier.


Irene Roche
said

I will drink 'raw' milk from Michael Schmidt's farm anytime.

we, all, know this is not a 'safety' issue.


Ryan in AB
said

For all those people saying drinkers of raw milk should have to pay their own medical costs, how about the fact that the government allows tobacco to be sold, poorly monitor food production practices (Maple Leaf & listeria), allow trans fat and questionable snack food for children. While raw milk is not 100% safe it is much safer than a lot of other products in our stores. This is all about the power of lobbyists (e.g. big Dairy producers)


Reece
said

If it's lead and melamine free, I'd be sucking from the cows teets myself.


bluegenesask
said

I was raised on a farm with 10 sisters and 6 brothers...yes we are 17 sibblings.We milked cows for a living,selling unpasterized milk to the nearby village.In 1963 Ross Thatchers liberals shut my dads livelihood down because we were going to be forced to pasterize the milk.
We drank hundreds of gallons over the years and we are all still alive.


Mary Susan
said

Canadians started pasteuriizing milk when raw milk caused thousands of cases of polio from which many children died or were left crippled for life. Now, if raw milk is allowed onto the market, what is the guarantee that everyone who drinks it will know what they are drinking. Canadians generally feel safe drinking milk and aren't likely to ask a host or hostess the source of the milk being served in a private home or a restaurant.


Murray from Northern Ontario
said

We live in a free society. Drink raw milk if you wish. Eat whatever unregulated foods you wish. Supplement away with unproven products. I have no problem with it. However, if it is unregulated and you fall ill, pay for your own medical expenses. The system is not perfect but it does a good job of protecting us. Once the safety net is taken away, I wonder how much experimentation we will continue to do on ourselves. The reason we pasteurize is that many were getting sick. The "I did not get sick," justification is ignorant. Please, experiment at your own cost, not with my tax dollars at stake.


Michael
said

Bacteria In Cows' Milk May Cause Crohn's Disease. I had a friend that got Crohn's Disease and I don't think he would recommend drinking raw milk.


Tara
said

I think selling unpaserized milk is a huge health problem. It is untolerable for man to sell unpaserized milk because its cheaper.


Beancounter
said

People just need something to complain about... if there was no ban on raw milk and someone got sick they would complain about the lack of government regulation, but there is a ban so people complain... stop complaining about everything

GET A LIFE!


Mitch in St. John's
said

This thread contains one of the great dangers of Canada's health care system in action. People claiming that because actions may lead to injury/illness it is the government's job to prevent it. If we are to preserve both our health care and our liberty this crap needs to stop right now.
As for this particular case, the government's role should not be to prevent the selling of raw milk. Rather, if there is a perceived danger, some kind of "independent study" should be done and that should stand as the example for consumers. Therefore people can still make their own choices and cannot claim ignorance. Of course that will never happen, for so many Canadians seem to prefer being ruled.


Nancy
said

People should have a choice as consumers. I have stopped drinking cow's milk 2 years ago when I read about what it can do to you. Don't believe the propaganda by the dairy industry. Ever thought about the fact that a cow's milk was meant for a cow's babies?
I drink fortified soy milk or almond milk and I take calcium supplements. That is all my body needs.


Vern
said

He will never win his case, but he his standing up for freedom and I support him 100%. The gov't has over stepped its bounds long ago and will continue to errode what little freedom we have left because it seems that is what Canadians want.


Glorianne & Michael Bjerland
said

We support what Michael is doing. We spoke with a Saskatchewan Dairy farmer yesterday. At any given time twenty-five percent of his herd has mastitis requiring antibiotic treatment. He also said that some of his dairy cattle require an injection of oxytocin to stimulate the ‘milk let down reflex’. After hearing this I did not ask any further questions about use of hormones or other chemicals. This dairy farmer doesn’t use the milk his cows produce but chooses to purchase milk from the store. Does this mean that commercially produced milk is unfit for human consumption until it is pasteurized? I really don’t think that pasteurization will remove any drug residue. We are really lucky to have a source of safe, raw milk that is chemical free.
Small Sask. Farmers



Tony, Chilliwack BC
said

I drink un-pasturized milk ever since i was a kid living on a dairy farm

I have no allergies Its rare I ever get sick my amune system is great your body needs bacteria and other bugs so it can build an immune system


lauraine moody
said

Lauraine
I hope he goes all the way.We should be able to drink raw milk.I have many sensitivities and allergies that disappear whenever I can find raw milk,which is hard to find because of all our laws that keeps pharmaceutical in a roaring business.


SICK OF ALL THE NONSENSE
said

perhaps the government should put regulations on fast food restaurants, and alchol and tobacco which are all deadly and end up costing tax payers millions in health care costs, but thats ok, because the government makes money on all of it, perhaps if the farmers selling raw milk cut the government in this would be a non issue. Please leave this man alone


Mark Embree
said

I find it interesting that most of the posters here are either for or against raw mild. You don't have to look any further than the expiry date and what milk does afterwards, milk used to go sour and people would use it to make cottage cheese and other cultured products, todays milk from the dairy industry doesn't go sour, it turns rotten and unusable. I wonder what its doing to us when its supposed to be fresh. One note, I haven't drank milk in over twenty years so maybe its not my place to say anything but raw milk dissappeared and what they call milk now just makes me sick whenever I do try it.


sam
said

I grew up on raw milk as millions of others, with no adverse effects. It doesn't make sense to me, legalize marajauna and outlaw raw milk, go figure.


Gregory
said

laura m

I would bet you work for the milk marketing board. Raw milk is fine and the kids that died you are talking about was the result of poor sanitizing methods at the processing plant. There is no problem with the milk coming directly from a cow. It is the additional processing and length of storage that requires the pasteurization.

regards


Tim
said

Frunk said...
Know what? Why not allow the sale of raw milk? after people sign a waiver that if they contract any affect from the raw milk they will have to pay all medical costs and would be exempt from free medicare treatment. I'm betting that would turn them off.

That's the silliest thing I ever heard. Should everyone now have to sign a waiver that if they get sick from deli meat, E. coli on lettuce or from restaurant food they will pay their own medical bills which is to say nothing of the effects of alcahol and tobacco? Pasteurization has only to do with the killing of bacteria that may be in the milk. We have better handling practices than 50 years ago. With this understanding and verification of proper production procedures raw milk will not pose more of a threat to society than any thing else.


Mo
said

That's pretty interesting case. I'm surprised such a law exists to protect the consumer, but I can see it as a two-sided argument. On one side, it comes down to government restriction vs. freedom of choice in doing whatever we wish to do. However on the other hand, we need to consider that this law was there to protect consumers. Let's say if people did drink raw milk, and the health risks were actually realized. There could be a potential outbreak of infection as a result, and it becomes the government's business since they're stuck with the responsibility of dealing with the outbreak and providing the necessary care. To those who do not drink raw milk, they would be upset in that case because their tax dollars would be going to the health care of those who insisted on drinking raw milk.

Perhaps the whole point is that the law should be changed. Maybe, maybe not. It's up for debate. I don't mind it though, perhaps a study may be warranted on this topic.


Bill from Cochrane
said

My wife and daughter are both lactose intolerant. A good friend who was a dairy farmer suggested we try some raw milk. They had no adverse reaction to the milk and we continued to use it for about a year when our friend decided to sell his herd. Also, when he was over his quota we would help him separate the cream from the milk and he would give us cream to take home. On cereal or fruit it can't be beat. If the cows are clean and the milk is handled properly I don't believe there is a real problem. For us it was great and I do believe that the good things in the milk are destroyed with the pasteurization process.



Jim L.-ottawa
said

It was this frenchman Mr. Pasteur, that came up with the idea to pasteurize cow's milk for the sole purpose to extend the milk shelf life.
I was born in Italy and I remember my childhood very well.
My grandmother would make every morning fresh ricotta cheese and serum for breakfast.
People drank raw milk (cow and goat) all the time with no side effects.
Raw Milk, along with hot peppers, garlic and onions were part of our daily food items.
people were very healthy.
I feel this man is a hero for a lot of us.
he fights for was he believes in and for what is healthy.
if I could buy fresh milk I would buy it and drink it without hesitation.
If I could make a donation to help him for his court cost, I would.
keep fighting, never give up. NEVER.
GOOD LUCK. GOD BLESS.





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