Police name victim in highway shooting death

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Police name victim in highway shooting death

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CTV Toronto: Correspondents cover the reactions

CTV Toronto Extended: CTV helicopter footage of the scene at Hwy. 401 and Keele Street

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ctvtoronto.ca

Date: Wed. Sep. 10 2008 5:08 PM ET

Police have identified the person whose body tumbled out of a moving vehicle onto the eastbound 401 collector lanes Tuesday, horrifying other motorists.

"The victim has been identified as Dayne Rose, 29, of Toronto," the Toronto Police Service said Wednesday in a news release.

Rose, who appeared to have gunshot wounds to the body, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Sources have told CTV Toronto that the victim had a criminal record for a minor theft charge. Police do not believe he was involved in any gang activities.

The murder came just one day after another daylight shooting on Monday that left an 18-year-old dead outside a bus shelter on busy Eglinton Avenue near Keele Street.

Police say, so far, their investigation does not show a link between the murders.

At a news conference late Tuesday night, homicide detectives confirmed a man and a woman were questioned by police in connection with the highway shooting but they were both released without facing charges.

Police are trying to determine the chain of events that led to the incident.

Witnesses say they saw the man fall out of a champagne-coloured Lexus near the Keele Street exit. Many were able to provide a licence plate number for investigators.

Police are trying to determine whether Rose was pushed out or whether he jumped out in a bid to escape the gunman.

The suspect car was later discovered a short time after the shooting. It was abandoned and set on fire at the rear of 2 Armel Court north of the Albion-Weston Roads intersection.

Gun ban call repeated

Ontario politicians said Wednesday they are horrified by the spate of gun violence in Toronto over the last couple of days and are calling on the federal government to impose a handgun ban across the country.

Toronto Mayor David Miller has long been advocating for the gun ban and has even encouraged the city's residents to sign an online petition headed for Ottawa.

He told reporters Wednesday morning that the city has tried tackling the problem by putting more police officers on the street.

"What we saw yesterday and the day before were absolute tragedies," he said. "One shooting is too many. That's why we have put 400 new officers on the street and they are doing a very good job. People who commit violence in Toronto are going to go to jail and they need to know that."

Premier Dalton McGuinty said he's had enough of the violence and agreed with Miller by saying that no one should be able to possess a gun unless they are a police officer.

"Handguns are the weapon of choice for the criminal element," he said. "They are convenient, easy to hide and easy to use and there's an opportunity for us to do something about that. We don't have to keep going down the road that we've been pursuing."

McGuinty said that a handgun ban would help distinguish Canada from the so-called gun culture south of the border.

"I think we should aspire to be a handgun-free society," he said.

With reports from CTV Toronto's Paul Bliss, Dana Levenson and Chris Eby

Comments are now closed for this story

Michelle from Ottawa
said

Is this a reflection of the Tories' tough stance on crime?

cclf
said

No, this is the reality of globalization.

Johan
said

Cheap shot, Michelle, very cheap. In the end, you just get what you pay for.

Al Ottawa
said

All this damn gun violence is sickening. Since pretty much all these guns are making it over the US border illegally, we need a different solution. Since it is illegal in Canada for anyone (except law enforcement) to carry concealed weapons, there needs to be work done to modify those new scanners that they have at some airports, into a small handheld scanner that can just make out if someone is carrying a gun or knife. Anybody caught with a gun on them without a license should go through a separate streamlined section of the justice system sending these muderers-to-be straight to jail.

Carrying a concealed weapon = illegal = automatic jail time. No trial, no waste of tax payer money.

Will this happen? No. Why? Because most judges support criminals, and because trial lawyers make money.

Aaron in Toronto
said

Michelle, this is not a reflection of the Tories' tough stance on crime but rather the weak Liberal Justice system. The judges are not doing their job and we have a Liberal bleeding heart thinking they can talk to the criminal and they will somehow change.

Al from Ottawa
said

To Michelle from Ottawa:

I'm trying to figure out how the heck you are trying to tie what happened to being "a reflection on the Torie's tough stance on crime"... Could you explain that incoherent thought please?

Khaleel, Toronto
said

I think the very party that talks of being tough on crime is against the Gun Registry too.

G
said

maybe if the oh so wonderful canadian judicial system changed life to mean life, more reapeated offenders [not saying the person who did this is] would be kept behind bars.

Kim from Ottawa
said

To Khaleel from Toronto - Do you think that the gun that was used in this crime (or any other crime for that matter) was registered? The people that are paying for the gun registry are the people that aren't breaking laws in the first place. They are law abiding citizens like recreational hunters. If you want to talk about wasted tax payer money this would be a great start.

T.L.
said

Michelle from Ottawa: I'm not sure which article you were reading..It certainly was not the same one I read. I thought this was about recent violent events in Ontario...I don't recall any political slant. Post your comments appropriately please...

elizabeth williams
said

It is very sad and depressing to see the tragic ways in which a mother has to loose her child, in this world that has become so dangerous and difficult. The devil has destroyed the youths and young men in this city. What a shame that people have to die the way they do, and it is only going to get worse.

Nigel Kelly
said

The gun registry was a huge joke and white elephant... Do you actually think the criminals with illegal hand guns from the states are stupid enough to register their illegal weapons?? Whereas my 22 caliber rifle legally obtained rifle would be... (and it isn't going to be used in a killing spree) Hide behind the gun registry if you want to but it isn't going to prevent killing by illegal handguns. Go after the criminals not the hunters...

john
said

It is a reflection of unrestrained immigration

Jim
said

The sad reality is that the Liberal Gun registry has done nothing to curb the use of illigal gun use; if you don't care about taking a life you sure won't care about using an illigal gun. David Miller keeps quoting wrong numbers to support a hand gun ban. The fact is about 2% of the guns used in crime come from Canada. The other 98% are smuggled accross the boarder from the US.

Michelle from Ottawa
said

Well, well, well...I touched a few sensitive Tory nerves.
The Tories claimed that lower crime rates were their doing because of their policies and conservative fans took the bait and gave them the credit. So you can't have it both ways. If Tories reduce crime,especially gun related crime, then any remaining crime must still be due to their failure.

Jimmie
said

I am so fed up with everyone blaming govt for the problems in society. I agree Canada is too much a bleeding heart country worried more about your rights than safety and just common sense. The real problems in Canada started with the Charter Of Rights that no one understands anyway.

Shanonn Krauss, Alberta
said

here has the gun registry gotten us? There hasn't been a reduction in gun related crimes. It just made it more complicated to purchase firearms legally. The laws are in place; they need to be enforced. Put more police out there and let them do their jobs.

RobO
said

To Khaleel - The Gun Registry was a Lib bid to control all the guns in the country. There program was way over budget and they decided not to let the public know. Plus remember, guns don't kill people - people kill people. You must also remember, people who are comming here from different countries and cultures bring their way of dealing with justice with them. So remember, killing someone in another country doesn't even make the front page. We here in Canada have been shielded from this and now that we are letting all types into this country we are going to get this type of crime. So remember, it's up to the voters to change the system.

Tim from Ottawa
said

Talk to any police officer on the beat and he or she will tell you that they assume every call they go to there are guns there. The Gun Registry was a 2 Billion + dollar waste of money that could have been spent elsewhere. Better schools, health care, better justice system.

WB
said

This is solely a reflection on criminals who commit crimes.

I don't know too many crooks who follow government policies, do you?

Dean
said

I believe if we elected our judges instead of them being chosen by gov't friends, we might see proper action in sentencing. The judges are getting more ridiculous by the day in their lack of handing out real sentences. Enough of the rights of criminals. What about the victims? There are far too many restrictions against the law enforcement groups in this country. Why would you worry if there is nothing to hide?. Follow the laws and there won't be a problem. This goes for every party, not just the Conservatives. Not one party is being "tough" on crime. If they were, we wouldn't have so much of it. Why aren't we deporting gang members who are foreign to this country. Put in a 10 year law. Behave for at least 10 years or get deported. Sounds good to me. No appeals, just quick deportation. Gun crimes equal instant jail for at least 20 years. No appeals.

AR
said

To John:

What does this have to do with immigration?

Your comment is uneducated, unwarranted, and full of bias.

Open up your eyes, immigration is driving this country.

Charlotte Colesberry, Toronto
said

I'm not against the gun registry, per se as it brings in needed tax revenue. However, criminals do not register their guns.

How we got here ...
said

This is a reflection on the weak stance taken by the Liberals which has finally come home to roost n the GTA and elsewhere.

If you want more of this sort of crime just keep voting Liberal in the GTA.

It is well known the Liberal socialist policies took the justice out of our justice system, they took the enforcement out of our police system and they took the safe out of our safety net.

It is also the same Liberal socialists who as Senators tried to block the Prime Ministers get tough on crime bills in the Senate.

Now who do you want to vote for?

Tim
said

Why must we politicize these tragedies?

It isn't the "Tories" fault; nor is it the "Liberals".

This is a Canadian problem.

We need clear leadership and direction on this issue from our elected leaders (from all levels).

We need to acknowledge that, in an urban/suburban environment, the only people who should be allowed to carry a gun are members of law enforcement.

Guns may have a place in a rural setting, but not in a city.

Finally, as citizens---we need to stop passing the blame.

Andrew
said

Im glad i live in Ottawa and not Toronto -

Craig in Calgary
said

Michelle, the Tories have said that crime will be, and has been reduced but not eliminated.

While it would be great if the crime rate is zero, that is a pipe dream.

However, by passing laws that punish criminals harder and treating victims with more respect, the Tories are trying to get it down as much as possible.

How can you fault them for that?

Liberals are responsible
said

Khaleel

News for you bud, people kill people,' guns don't.

Liberal socialist and politcal correctness also kill people because they are soft on crime and punks are back out on the streets in minutes doing it all over again.. my son is a cop and he tells me its crazy the crap he has to go through to get a conviction because of soft Liberal appointed judges.

If you want more crime keep voting Liberal...

Carollynn -Toronto
said

John- I agree 100% with you.. it's all to do with unrestrained immigration..now are talking some sense!!

Chand From Toronto
said

It is not only about the Gun issue and don’t realize the value of human life. There is no different between these people and violence animal.
If there is no Gun, they will use some things else to kill others….!!!

Terry from Toronto
said

I'm a favour of envoking the War Measures act go into some of these area where we know the guns and gangs are and do one big swoop get those areas cleaned up. I mean marshall law isn't the best thing in the world but it would get things done and people wouldn't have to fear being shot by some kid with a hand gun. These people aren't scared of anything or anyone they need to be scared of something.

wanderson75
said

I actually live in the States, but I frequent Toronto as my wife is from there.

While Toronto has an insanely low gun-murder rate compared to most cities (and villages and towns) in the States, I think it's high time that Canada take some extreme actions to make sure this doesn't get further out of hand. Perhaps increased vehicle searches at the border. Harsher sentences for carrying a weapon as well as owning an illegal one, with no sentencing minimums (you do the crime, you do hard time). And perhaps it's time to start raiding suspected traffickers. Even with little evidence. You need to shake them up.

This almost looks like a gangland murder. Dumping the body in the middle of the freeway in the middle of the day? They wanted to make a statement.

Toronto, don't let your city be ruined by gun toting crooks like ours have been.

Toronto, ON.
said

Criminals aren’t born criminals. The popular media, culture and surroundings do. Our society promotes violence through music, videos and games. There are toy guns, knifes and even hand grenades for little once to play with. Where you think little once get idea of such toys and how do they know how to play.

Stop putting blame on gun control but squarely on policy makers (i.e. politicians). Judges aren’t liberal or Conservatives or for that matter of fact even NDP, they follow laws as created by law makers. If Liberals created bad laws why do Conservatives not strike them down? It is easy to place blame then take on responsibility. No matter what government this issue will not be resolved till we people make it number one. Politicians like to say what people want to hear. After all that is how they are elected.

I must admit violent crimes are here to stay. It is rooted in our pop-culture driven by all kinds of media. We are at the cutting edge of society with balls of the size, well the biggest one you can imagine.

Heather
said

Is it currently legal for gang members to shoot each other on the 401?

No!

Well then, what's a gun ban going to do???????

David F.
said

I'm sure most gun toting criminals who acquired their guns in Toronto will go along with the Premier's wishes, but he's pushing it a little if he thinks there will be 100% compliance. What penalties does Mr. McGuinty plan to impose on the small minority of incorrigibles who will thumb their nose at him and continue to use handguns as long as they come across the border behind tinted windows?

Mike
said

I can't believe all this violence that is happening in Toronto.

Guns are never the problem, it's only the people who use them.

Crime has been on the rise in Ontario because the unemployment rate is rising. The amount of good quality jobs are decreasing and people are finding it frustrating to make a decent living. So they turn to make proceeds from crime.

Why doesn't the government find ways to keep jobs and educate it's population? Instead, they spend money on Afghanistan.

Shawn - Ottawa
said

Jeez I'm tired of politicians raising the "ban gun" banner whenever a crime is committed. It's tantamount to calling for a ban on cars because a drunk driver killed someone. I agree that no one needs a gun, but then no one needs a BMW either.

george
said

Knee jerk reaction. Something goes wrong blame it on the gun. Not the idiot that bought it illegally, owns it illegally and commits an illegal offense with it. Yes the pistol got up shot the guy and then put it in his hand. Amazing what a peace of metal can do. It has a mind of it's own. Get real McGuinty.

Gail (Hamilton)
said

How sad it is when all political leaders can't come together to fight crime based on illegal guns and those who flaunt the laws. Canada has already banned the use of handguns. The laws unfortunately are always broken by thugs who mostly belong to gangs. Trying to score political points at the expense of the public, is certainly taking the lowest road. Witnesses need to come forward to help not hinder police investigations.

Fed up with Miller
said

This rise of violence is solely the fault of Pierre Trudeau and his destruction of the justice system, nothing good has ever come from the abolition of personal responsibility!

al
said

the whole situation in toronto is really messed up. i don't believe in the statistics published recently on crime being the lowest it has been in years. no way, i never recall that much shooting in toronto. unfortunately our city is becoming a less safe of a place to live, so why not just move south of the border? the health care is moving towards that way too. i think what we need is more police officers that actually do their jobs. so much emphasis was done on highway control, which is an easy thing to control. but what about the more serious stuff like in cases like this? nothing has been done in years. recruit more officers...esp from the US, who are actually dominant , more dominant than our officers.

Mike Motha
said

I work in the justice system. You can't blame the Liberals for this, it was like this when the conservatives were in power. Government now and of the past are too cheap to put money into the justice system. Courthouses are too small to accomodate new judicial appointments or more court cases, jails are so full that most crimes are plea bargined or dropped. Police spend more time filling out paperwork due to managment rules then doing their jobs. The whole system is out of whack with governments not wanting to spend $$$...government is always reactive instead of proactive.

BP
said

Can you enlighten me on how a handgun ban would of prevented this? Did they have a legal handgun to begin with? Far as I can see a ban only keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding persons. I as a law abiding person have to jump through many hurdles to own a gun, (I do not have one at the moment). On the other hand if I was a criminal and wanted one I could have one within the day, do you thing these gangs get them from legal sources. I know the next statement is that they steal them from legal owners, but even that is so little it doesn't even make a blip on stats. Wake up the gangs get them from other gangs in the USA. I live in Windsor where it seems a week doesn't go by that customs don't seize some. I was at a flea market in Ohio last week where there were tables set up with people selling guns out of their trunks, you are in a fantasy land if you think the us will stop it.
Again banning only punishes law abiding people from owning it will not keep them out of the hands of the bad guys. The real answer is to harshly crack down on gun crime whether it is illegal
possession or the use in a crime if you use a gun in a crime of violence you should automatically be guilty of attempted murder.

Jorja
said

The current gun registry ended up way over budget, and is a huge waste of taxpayers money. Besides, criminals don't use legal weapons. Canada needs to get tougher on all criminals, starting with juvenile offenders, and enforcing appropriate sentences, not slaps on the wrist. Maybe then we could stop some small time criminals from graduating to worse crimes. Spending more money on registering more guns will do nothing but cost us more money better spent elsewhere.

Marcel
said

I agree with Premier McGuinty request for a handgun ban. However, the Prime Minister and his party do not believe in this ban. The ban should be enforced to save human lives and I don't care about the amount of money, enforce this ban now. Thank you

Jack R.
said

It's unpopular, but reinstate the death penalty in Canada for certain offense's. Drug trafficking, pedophilia, 1st degree murder.
It's not a popular choice but it's a deterrent that works.

Melissa
said

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. If the handgun is banned people will find other ways to murder.
Banning handguns, isn't a solution to anything.

Alberta Kid
said

Banning guns will not reduce crimes like this. The guns will still be coming into Canada illegally. Impose much stiffer penalties and stricter immigration control.

Reg Fleming
said

Our justice system coddles criminals, popular cultural and our education system drives home a message moral relativity and nihilism, and then we are shocked when people behave immorally.

Banning handguns and registering knives will provide a lot of make busy work for law enforcement, lawyers, the court system, and politicians; but it will only provide a false sense of security.

Robin the Hood
said

A gun ban cannot work as long as you have a gun crazed neighbour.. the USA. Guns will find their way in the country and will be used to kill people. Yes, made in USA, to kill Canadians!
Meanwhile they get all ticked at Canada for allowing some pot into their country. Its a joke.

Matt
said

According to media reports, all of these "victims" were well know to police, which is just a politically correct way of saying they were criminals.

Why exactly are we supposed to feel sorry for these people because the lifestyle they CHOSE to lead finally caught up with them? As far as I'm concerned, they died of natural causes.

Tragedies? Hardly.

Terry from Toronto
said

wanderson75
said

rey
said

i think john is right - unrestrained immigration is the problem.
the native population should never have allowed europeans on the continent in the first place.
problem solved.

Doug BC
said

It's shocking,and a bt sad that someone like "Michelle from Ottawa" very likely will be able to vote.Clearly some convaluted logic going on in that head.Sometimes it's better to remain silent,etc,etc.
Crime is a serious business that needs to rise above partisan politics.THe object of law enforcement has to be to protect the general public.Lock up or deport violent offenders.I reject the notion that the left suggests that policy is to punitive.It is not about punishment or revenge.It is about safer streets for law abiding people.
But hey,we can all take comfort in the fact that the is still some common sense in Ottawa."Al Ottawa" has a clear,seeming non partisan view of how these criminals need to be dealt with.But as much as I like his style,I'm afraid we do need a trial.
One thing is certain.I am sick and tired of bledding hearts thinking we should give these people a free pass because they were drunk or their mommy didn't love them enough,or they were scorned by society.
Violent crime and gun crime MUST come with severe consequences.Surprisingly the strongest advocates for this would be coming from those who own and use firearms legally and safely for their whole lives.

Toronto, ON.
said

Heather
said

Is it currently legal for gang members to shoot each other on the 401?

No!

Well then, what's a gun ban going to do???????

David F.
said

Mike
said

Shawn - Ottawa
said

george
said

Jon Terriffic
said

I think banning illicit drugs would make the gun problem go away....all this gun violence is a direct result of cocaine and other hard drugs.........it isn't legal gun owners "puttin a cap in someones butt"

Roger T
said

Our Gov't is SOOOO behind compare to other countries with everything. With our Gov't it usually waits until a real situation happens before them move into action which is a bit too late when a citizen is dead.

Our Gov't is so quick to criticize other countries when it comes to banning but so slow at responding to Canadians worries only to CALL FOR BANNING in the end!

Toby - and no I do not live in the big city
said

This has nothing to do with politics. There is no need for anyone to possess a hand gun with the exception of law enforcement. There are 2 ways to deal with it:

1. all must be registered or 2. all must be banned.

If you do not want to register your gun then you are are criminal. So much for the so called "law abiding citizens" aka "yahoos" with their heads buried in their butts.

Either way - caught with a gun automatic minimum sentence.

Gail (Hamilton)
said

Fed up with Miller
said

This rise of violence is solely the fault of Pierre Trudeau and his destruction of the justice system, nothing good has ever come from the abolition of personal responsibility!

mafia jihad
said

Organized crime is the real war !

al
said

Mike Motha
said

BP
said

Jason in Kelowna
said

Oh yea.. and we've seen how well gun bans have worked so far in this country. Every time there's a shooting in Toronto, someone is up in arms (no pun intended) about banning handguns. Don't inflict your problems and ineffectiveness at controlling crime upon the rest of the country.

Belle River Woman
said

The Conservatives have taken a harsher stance on crime by attempting to increase the penalties; I think Michelle misses that point. Claiming that any existing crime is the fault of the party in power is ridiculous - there will always be criminals in the country; but any reduction is admirable.

We need to examine how these guns are entering the country, and it isn't through airports - it's across highway borders. Increasing the number of police officers will not prevent the importation of guns. However increasing the number of customs inspectors, improving the technology available to them, and allowing for increased vehicular inspections will certainly go a long way toward catching more of these illegal importations. The busiest border points in North America (Windsor, Niagara Falls-area and Sarnia) are all within a few hours of Toronto, and far more focus needs to be placed on these points of entry.

Matt
said

Of course, put more laws to harrass the responsible law abiding citizens.

I'm just guessing that the type of person who dumps a body from a moving car on the 401 might consider breaking other laws too.

I think many Canadians understand handgun crime is committed by known criminals with illegally aquired weapons.
These aren't the actions of recreational or competative shooters.
This is simply cheap political fearmongering based on the publics lack of knowledge.

Jorja
said

a Gerritzen
said

The ontario government has been yapping for years do do that but it always takes another killing for them to wake up .I Dont think they have the guts to do any thing .
Arnold from Burlington

Rick in NB
said

Will you party backers go back to the election articals to post.
This is a problem created by the American Government when they launched their famous WAR ON DRUGS. Drugs are the reason these crimes occur. Gangs protect their turf.
Drugs are sold by networking
the drugs through these gangs. When hard drugs dryup
the gangs always have marijuana to keep their profits. If anyone out there thinks that marijuana is anymore harmful than booze this post is wasted on you.
If marijuana were legalized lots of gangs would become of no use to organized crime. They would simply be extinct. This is when our local Government would have an opportunity to step in with youth programs. If a kid feels important than he becomes important. Lets guide them in a positive direction.

Brent from Sudbury
said

typical knee jerk Liberal reaction,when you dont have a solution, attack a group that are minding thier own business
people kill people guns are merely a tool,maybe we should ban steak knives while we are at it???? Toronto likes to dictate to the rest of the country that thier socialist system works,, funny they seem to have all the headaches, use the extra police to target the problem, not as a means of collection more tax through things like speeding tickets

Socialism is killing us
said

Liberals will always blame the gun for the murder, not the individual who pulled the trigger. Guns have been around for only the past 200 or so years yet there have been killing since the existenace of mankind. Liberals will never understand this.

pp
said

Mr McGinty - a handgun ban is not the solution. Those wanting to get firearms will get them one way or another.

The solution is to have tougher crime laws - get these oxygen wasting morons off the streets and into jails and into work programs where they actually have to work - why do I see people out cleaning litter up who work for the city getting paid more money (and better benefits I might add) than I do?

Make these criminal morons work instead and put those hard earned tax paying dollars to work in other ways... Education, healthcare... just a thought.

Oh and another thought - how about making those who caused the resulting massive backup on the 401 pay for all the lost revenue? I should think that at $15 / hr over the next oh say 20 yrs should go a long ways towards helping... Oh don't worry about having a place to sleep and eat - that is what JAIL is for.

I am so tired of seeing these unlawful morons getting off with a slap when I have to work my butt off everyday, get up at 4am and drive into work and slave away and not get home till the evening - paying taxes, bills and getting nowhere.

Sheesh! makes a girl wanna scream in frustration!

Jason in Kelowna
said

WB said: "I don't know too many crooks who follow government policies, do you?"

We do have them, but we commonly refer to them as MP's.

Marcel
said

Scott
said

I'm sure this guy would still be alive if only handguns had been banned before now. After all, a person willing to MURDER someone would surely have those urges removed if there wasn't a gun around. The mere presence of a gun apparently can alter the mental state of a person to such a degree that they will commit homicide.

Davie
said

Remember good ol' Harper voted for the gun registry initially...then he gave into pressure and voted against it. The Conservatives are about as tough on crime as a 2 yr old, and the Libs are no different.

Smy
said

I hope Atlantic Canada, Ontario, & BC vote Liberal just to shut Alberta Conservative cronies up....'Alberta, the Texas of Canada!'

Zircon
said

Ok people...all of you who call for a handgun ban, thinking that this will fix the problem in Toronto and elsewhere, wake up. The guns used in crimes like these, in the vast majority of cases, ARE ILLEGAL ALREADY AND ARE NOT OWNED BY TRAINED/REGISTERED GUN OWNERS. If you think the potential penalty of 2 years in jail for merely having a handgun is going to deter someone from committing a much worse crime with it that currently carries a much longer sentence, you've officially lost touch with both logic and reality.

The criminal mind: Oh man I better not use this gun to kill that guy cause if I get caught with it first, I'm gonna do time! I'll use that baseball bat instead.

Melissa
said

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. If the handgun is banned people will find other ways to murder.
Banning handguns, isn't a solution to anything.

Alberta Kid
said

Banning guns will not reduce crimes like this. The guns will still be coming into Canada illegally. Impose much stiffer penalties and stricter immigration control.

Melissa - Barrie, ON
said

I fully support the gun registry. That being said I am not niave enough to believe that all guns will be registered or that many used in crimes are registered. None the less if a gun is used in a crime it can be tracked much easier if it was registered. And what the Frick is with this whole "long gun" not being used for crime? (I got an ad from my idiot conservative MP about it) Sure most long guns are for hunters (who I personally dont support anyways - they enjoy killing...) but that doesnt mean long guns wont be used for crime, or to kill someone. It is less likely but doesnt mean we should say - its ok for him/her to own a gun since its a long gun and they aren't used for killing people... wtf?

Reg Fleming
said

Robin the Hood
said

John Palermo
said

Mr. McGuinty:
We are already a handgun free society. Nobody except police officers (and a few special cases) can carry a handgun on their person.

Handguns are Restricted. They may be transported in a vehicle to and from a shooting range with a special permit and the route taken must be direct. So anyone (apart from the aforementioned)out there with a handgun is already breaking the law already in place.

Ron
said

I used the think Miller and McGuinty just didn't understand the facts about gun ownership in Canada. I used to think that sound arguements showing that criminals get guns (primarily) from American drug gangs in exchange for our Canadian Pot grower's crops would penetrate their partisanship. I used to think they would realize that duck hunters and olympic shooters are NOT the guys doing drive-by's at Jane and Finch. (the Toronto Police's own numbers show that statistically insignificant numbers of hanguns can be traced back to theft from legal Canadian registered owners)

Then I just realized that their target audience is the liberal beat poets and left-leaning societal leeches that inhabit the GTA who have never even seen a gun and only know that guns=bad, gun ban=good because the television told them so.
These people only wake up from their apathetic inattention to politics once every four years to cast uninformed ballots and are easily swayed by sound bites.

Common sense has nothing to do with it. Sadly.

Cam
said

Ban handguns. Hmmm. Because evveryone knows banning handguns will work. Just like regeristing guns worked? What a load.

Dale Wilson Edmonton
said

Enough with the rhetoric about the gun registry and all those otehr things...its old news and political fodder for political cretins. The gun registry dealt with long guns and although I'm no expert on the matter, I'm pretty sure the 401 killers weren't swinging a rifle around in the champagne coloured lexus. Not enough headroom.

Handguns are already effectively banned in Canada, have been for over 70 years and are harder to get legally than explosives.

There is no indication that this was sold legally in Canada, nor is it likely to have been. We have a handgun culture to the south of a very porous border, it is widely acknowledged that you can could buy whatever kind of handgun you want on short notice in any American city - Mr. McGuinty should provide a REAL solution to this very REAL problem if he's actually serious and not grandstanding as usual.

BB in B.C.
said

Somebody mentioned the "needed tax dollars" derived from the gun registry. I thought the expense of running the registry was more than the income thus we have over a billion dollar loss. Concealed handguns were outlawed more than 50 years ago. You needed a special permit to buy one and a permit to even move it to the gun club range. Serious automatic and semi automatic weapons should be banned entirely but it isn't likely the drug runners and gang members are going to turn them in. Remember the terrorists of 911 used box cutters and look around your home where you will find dozens of leathal weapons. Hells bells.....there are people walking around the streets who are lethal weapons by virtue of martial arts training. Some of them are women so you had better watch out.

mr ward
said

gun ban is equal to increase gun crime. punish the law abiding and the criminal will be free to attack the law abiding citizen. very inteligent mr mc guity. the street gang do not follow the law and they dont buy gun at the sport shop.

Matt
said

Al
said

I'm a liberal but i strongly oppose banning handguns for the majority of owners who have it legally and are not criminals and are responsible.
Banning handguns won't solve anything because many of the guns involved in crimes here have came illegally from US. So banning guns here won't make the problem go away. What the government needs to do is have tougher screening at the Canada-US border, but God forbid we should do that and maybe annoy Americans...

Neil
said

Have the police determined that the hand guns in question were purchased legally, or were they illegal? To purchase a hand gun in Canada you have to belong to a target shooting club, go through the long process of acquiring a Restricted FAC, and have no criminal record. So it will likely turn out that these were illegal fire arms. Banning hand guns will not stop crimes of this sort. Hand gun crimes are not committed by registered hand guns, criminals are smarter than that.

J
said

Banning hand guns will not stop criminals from using them. The guns they are using are not registered weapons; they are weapons that are smuggled in to the country. Put more teeth into the current laws for gun use and invest more money in border patrol to stop the flow of these guns into Canada

kman
said

Hand gun ban will solve the problem. I bet the handguns used in this crime were registered and the criminals had gun aquisition certificates.

J.P.
said

I agree with John's comments "It is a reflection of unrestrained immigration"

The Liberals and David Miller are a complete joke. Handguns are already banned and it is very difficult to purchase and possess one. Law abiding citizens dont shoot people, guns dont shoot people. Criminals do! Any political party that comes up with an automatic 10yrs in jail for possessing an illegal handgun would get my vote! Im talking about 10yrs, no appeals allowed and no discretion on the part of the justice system. Lets throw these losers in jail, and throw away the keys. Sad part is that taxpayers pay for this unrestrained immigration and we also pay for their expensive legal aid. We have a certain problem in Toronto, and its not politically correct to mention what the problem is.

David
said

Last time i checked there was the equivalent to a ban already in effect.
Anyone who thinks banning private ownership will remove gun crime need only look to their history.
Prohibition did nothing about the availability of alcohol, and drug sanctions haven't prevented the use of drugs.

Lane
said

McGuinty might want to consider that it is already illegal to carry a concealed firearm, to discharge it in a public place, to transport it without a permit, to shoot people, and to desecrate a corpse. Therefore, such crimes demonstrate a need for tighter enforcement of existing laws, not new laws that criminals will also ignore.

TORONTORON
said

If all guns are "banned" in Canada, then you are only penalizing the lawful gun owners.(the gangs are not using "legal guns")We need to punish the people who use the guns for robberies, drive by shootings etc.with a minimum 20 years on top of what time they get for a robbery etc. There have been more and more murders by knife lately,should we ban all knives too? Soon we will have to butter our toast with a spoon.

Jared
said

Yes please...let ban all the handguns. Can anyone say knee-jerk reaction??? I mean I afterall, it is the LEGAL handguns that people are using to kill each other right? Not the ones that are smuggled in ILLEGALLY through various means. Just because you make it illegal it doesn't mean that it will stop people. The posted speed limit on the 401 is 100km/h isn't it? Cruising speed is what, 125km/h or so???

Proud Canadian
said

How on earth does immigration have anything to do with murder? Surely people aren't suggesting that a persons race or ethnicity makes them more prone to murder! I thought my fellow Canadians were smarter than this.
We need a creative solution to the rise in violence. This problem will not be solved by pointing the finger at people (whether they are different racially or politically). Blame is counterproductive.

David Dunlop
said

What on earth is Dalton thinking? He wants to ban illegal hand guns? I'd bet the gang bangers will pay attention to that law just like they pay attention to the existing law that makes almost all of the handguns used in crime illegal already. Why doesn't he use his pointy head and do something positive for us all and force Hydro One to make it easy for those that want to generate green power hook up to the grid or some other such measure that will actually make a difference.

Canadian Soldier
said

When I was a 14 year old kid, I said "why have such tough gun laws? almost all crimes committed are committed with illegally obtained weapons". At 14 years of age I was able to see what morons like Dalton McGuinty fail to see. It is already illegal to shoot someone, outlawing guns will only add another charge to these people's records. THE CRIMES WILL STILL OCCUR. Spend the money on changing laws to keep criminals in jail

newfie
said

I'm sorry, but banning handguns from law abiding citizens is not the answer. We as a civilized 1st world country should have the laws insituted that will deterr criminals from going through this extreme. I see no one calling for a ban on kitchen knives or baseball bats.

Edmonton John
said

I don't know why so many people are getting on Michelle's case. It is clear her question is rhetorical.

Harper has claimed, and continues to claim that Conservatives are tough on crime. The truth is that they have done nothing.

Worse than nothing, they have undermined the revenue base that would fund increased police forces and resources, a more streamlined justice system and appropriate detention centres for the convicted criminals.

It doesn't matter what the punishment is if you can't catch the criminals, so to get tough on crime you have put resources out there to do the job.

So, is this the result of Harper's get tough on crime stance? Yes, it is. It is what happens if you do nothing!

Doug BC
said

Ah!. Here we go again with another Ontario problem that McGuinty thinks should impose an Ontario concept of a solution on ALL of the citizens in ALL of Canada.I don't live in Ontario,but I am certainly wondering how much effort McGuinty has put into actually enforcing current firearms laws.I somehow suspect that effort has been minimal.
Just another reason I refuse to support Liberals any more.And,believe me,I was a die hard Liberal for decades.
Clearly Canadians are between a rock and a hard place as this election comes closer.Socialist ideas from central Canada will greatly displease westerners,and more conservative approaches preferred in the west seem to have no place east of Manitoba.
Maybe it's time to admit a unified and sovereign Canada is simply a mirage or a pipe dream.In what passes for democracy in Canada,the west is again not going to be heard.Heck,we can't even get Liberals to concede that we are not properly represented in that joke we call a Senate.
My best guess:if the socialists do manage to push through a national ban on handguns,criminals will ignore those laws in the same way they ignore current laws.It seems clear they are not complying with the gun registry program.
I get a bit weary of Mr.McGuinty running off to the federal government instead of actually making an effort to help Ontarians deal with their problems from within.He does have the authority to enforce current firearms laws.Just do it!

Reg Ord
said

McGuinty must be drinking too much coolaid if he thinks banning handguns will stop these shootings. Does he really believe these are legally registered handguns. Maybe he was just born at coffee break

DRH
said

No Michelle from Ottawa. Its a reflection of the 2 billion dollar gun regisrty that is to date only 30% working and a work in progress.

Linda in Vancouver
said

Duh! Hello. I'm not sure why,but a lot of people don't seem to have figured out that people who obey the law are the only ones who register their firearms.The criminals used imported and illegal weapons.The gun registry did nothing to deal with this.Nor will a ban on firearms.

RP
said

Just shows how smart McGuinty is and not much.
Illegal handguns will not be affected by a ban.
The bad guy does not licence his hand gun so this is an other dumb Liberal move.

Mical Olsen
said

Typical Politician, ban guns, ban liquor, ban druga, ban smoking. Then proudly announce, "I've done something." Simplistic, stupid, selfserving. Now if our justice? system actually punished someone for having or using a weapon while commiting a crime, we would have progress.

Kris
said

Gun control was strengthened considerably in 2003. And what a wonderful improvement since then....so now the solution is more gun control.

Someone opens fire on me as an act of random violence, I want to shoot back. I guarantee that if more Canadians had this attitude the bad guys would be less inclined to start shooting in the first place.

Jack L Chan
said

No one should own a gun. If we took away ALL of the guns in this world then there would be fewer deaths

Peter Hunziker
said

Before flying off the handle let us examine the issue. The million-(pay billion) dollar gun registry has not stopped the gun-murder. How many of the guns used in murders were registered?
Why would a total ban on handguns cause criminals to get rid of them?
Next we realize that many murders are caused with knifes. Should we spend another billion to register them? - and then outlaw them?
Posession of a weapon may be for defensive purposes as well. It is the criminal who uses it for the other one.
In Switzerland, military service is compulsory. Every soldier has his uniform, arms, and ammunition at home between active service. The murder rate per capita is lower than in Canada.
It is the criminal who uses these arms in illegal ways. He should be the target and be separated from society.

Informed
said

When there is no consequence people cast off restraint. Canada offers token penalty for capital offences and we are now reaping the rewards. We need lawmakers with a conscience and a backbone to step up and make sweeping changes to our laws and start dealing with these issues hardhandedly.

Hamilton, Ontario
said

It's hilarious that Dalton is going to do something about handguns but still has yet to act or allow the Federal government to act on the situation in Caledonia. You have a bunch of hard-working Canadians who legally acquired handguns and paid registry and tax on them. Not only that but they have a violent, armed occupation in their small town. Then you're going to say, Okay, give us the legally purchased guns you were taxed for and you won't be re-imbersed. McGuinty doesn't even know if the gun used in this crime was registered or if it's from the U.S... Smuggled through a native reserve just like 95% of firearms used in Canadian crimes of this nature. Maybe toughen border security on native reserves or ban guns in Toronto. The rest of Ontario shouldn't have to suffer because of the GTA's gangster influx. BTW, immigration is certainly "driving" this country to a dysfunctional nanny state. Airport surveillence devices everywhere?? Did I wake up in Orwell's 1984?

DCI
said

It is not the guns. It is the GANGS that use them. Every PUNK on the street thinks that hey are so tough when they have a gun in their hands. Take the guns away, and these idiots would haveto go back to playing basketball. I thought that Toronto had a Gang task force in place after all the killings last year.
Not working too well is it...
Parents are letting their children run around the streets all hours of the night. I guess they are waiting for their phone call from the police that their child is dead!
SO SAD...

Marion in Ontario
said

I thought un-registered guns were already against the law. What would be accomplished by a banning them? We can't stop the illegally obtained guns now, how are we going to stop the banned guns from getting on the street?
Banning any type of gun is only useful if the punishment is tougher on a banned gun.

Ken P.
said

McGuinty and Miller are such fools...like these thugs are going to give up their guns. What we need is for more of these thugs to kill each other.

Nnaumbua Farrell
said

You know, I'm not even a gun owner but I'm getting sick and tired of the ridiculous logic and opportunistic nature of politicians calling for a hand gun ban. It demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of both human nature and the limits of law.

How will a ban on hand guns prevent criminals (who by definition disobey the law), from getting and using handguns?

The only people who will respect a handgun ban law will be those who are least likely to use a handgun in a crime; law abiding citizens.

And yet politicians like McGuinty think that the simple act of passing of a law, signing a piece of paper with words on it, will have some magical ability to physically restrain people from using handguns in crimes. Or maybe they feel that the law will suddenly endow criminals with some grudging respect for the law that will compel them to obey it: "Damn! They just passed a handgun ban! Well, we'll just have to get rid of these guns and find some other way to rob the bank."

And, while I respect them, do you think that there are absolutely no cops or members of the armed forces in Canada that won't take the opportunity of increased blackmarket prices to pad their pockets by "losing" their handguns?

Let's get real people and stop trying to beat up on people who aren't committing crimes (law-abiding gun owners) as a quick fix.

Balgonie Bob
said

It never takes Dalton long to jump on the bandwagon of any politically sensitive subject for his own gain after all he is no dummy right? I'm sure he firmly believes that making the illegal guns the criminals are using even more illegal will make a big difference.

CB
said

Yet every time the police shoot or Taser someone, people cry bloody murder and want to take away all of our tools.

Canada doesn't want Police Officers, they want Social Workers with uniforms to "talk" the gang members out of their criminal lifestyles.

Canadians need to start putting their money where their mouth is:

You want less crime? Give the Police the tools & authority to do their job!

We are so buried in paperwork every time we even yell at someone that I can't imagine trying to police a city like TO.

Trent
said

Those supporting the suggested ban on handguns have to take a sober second thought as to what this will actually accomplish. This was a gang-land style execution and the weapon that was used for this crime was in no way obtained through any legal means. The root of the problem with this crime (and many involving guns) are the numbers of illegal weapons that are crossing the border and flooding our city streets. Banning handguns is a typical knee jerk response that will provide support for the politicians in Ontario but in NO WAY will cause any reduction in gun violence.

Geoff
said

Sigh. Handguns used in most shootings are already "banned". They're usually smuggled from the States and sold to gangsters here. You can't make something that's already illegal "more illegal". You can only increase the penalties if one if caught and increase enforcement. Sheesh politicians are stupid.

Tom London
said

This is so typical Liberal, lets not deal with the real problem (Gangs) lets blame the inanimate object to divert everyones attention. Then maybe peopole won't know that the government isn't doing it's job. Which is make our streets safe. Canadians have had guns since gunpowder was invented so deal with the PEOPLE that misuse them.
I've had firearms for 43 years (yes includes handguns) and still haven't managed to kill anyone.

Politicians are Stupid
said

Stupid politicians saying stupid things!

Hand guns used in these crimes are illegal guns.

When will politicians stop harassing law abiding citizens just because they own guns? Hand guns are practically impossible to get legally unless you are in law enforcement. Guns used in crimes are almost always illegal. Law abiding citizens who own guns and have them licensed almost never have their guns used in crimes.

Let's use the existing laws, we don't need new ones, and apply them to the full maximum penalties. No excuses, you use a gun in a crime, you go away for the maximum.

Have a look at this from May '08: http://www.ofah.org/News/index.cfm?ID=3&A=GetDoc&DID=411

Sam Crawford
said

Would the "criminal element" give a rat's arse end about a handgun ban?

Eric Dalzell
said

So this is Dalton's thinking; If the we ban handguns, the criminals are going to stop trying to acquire them. And he's are premier, no wonderr this province is going down hill so quickly.

Al
said

Drive by shootings would diminish drastically if we banned cars out right.

jOHN FROM cALGARY
said

Guns do NOT kill people. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. Enforce the full jail time for gun crimes and quit worrying about rights since you forfeit these rights when you use a gun to commit a crime.

AJ
said

As a responsible REGISTERED handgun owner I reject Mcguinty's call for a handgun ban. As has been said many times, a total ban on handguns will not get them off the street or out of the hands of a criminal. The police have been unable to stop the flow of illegal handguns coming into Canada. It is a known fact that most of these firearms are being smuggled by gun runners through the eserves on the Canada/US border. No amount of legislation will stop this smuggling operation. Unless Mcguinty is prepared to moniter the reserves 24/7, there will be no answer to the criminal use of illegal handguns. If anything, drug users should be jailed or severely punished for encouraging the growing violence the drug trade is now causing in Canadian cities and towns. I will continue to enjoy my handguns as a collecter and as a gunclub shooter and I refuse to let the criminal gangs take that right away from me.

Marcel
said

For the people on this blog who are criticizing the Criminal Justice System and the Police in our country, the only people who can give them more power are our elected officials in the House of Commons. I thought that Mr. Harper and his government had gotten tougher on crime. It does not look like it. Thank you

Saltycdog
said

A Ban on hand guns will not reduce the crime rate in Toronto. Virtually all illegal hand guns in Toronto were smuggled across the border from the US. Instituting a national ban on hand guns would have NO effect on the number of weapons smuggled across the border. Weapons smuggling across the border is just as sophisticated as drug smuggling, and just as hard to detect. Rather than waste another Billion dollars on a gun registry that does not solve the problem, perhaps we'd be better off putting another billion dollars into CBSA and beefing up border inspections. It won't put an end to the gun violence either, but at least it will be putting the money where it stands the best chance of making a difference. David Millar, Dalton McGuinty, and the Federal Liberals know that a gun ban will not work, but they'll tell you whatever you want to hear and they'll happily waste another Billion dollars on a gun registry to buy your vote.

jim40
said

As a Law abiding sport shooter, i find the idea of a handgun not only ludicrous but impossible to attain. The hoops I have to go through to LEGALLY enjoy my sport, are quite enough already. The problem is two fold. 1) NOT ENOUGH POLICE, and 2) NOT ENOUGH PENALTIES FOR AN OFFENDED.

Henri Talon
said

Common element it all this violence is the “people” who commit them. If we are wasting our time and resources on red herrings like gun control, when the focus should be on identifying the people who do these acts and how a supposed moral society can allow them to live and thrive among us. Guns, knives, cars, cement shoes, poison, whatever the inanimate object that is used will always be replaced by something else. Politicians, and special interest groups can cry wolf all they want, it won’t stop the violence until you find the people and culture that allows that lifestyle to exist and correct it.

JK
said

Murder charges don't seem to be a deterrent. So I'm not sure what a handgun ban will do. We need tighter controls to either keep these people out of our country to begin with or keep them locked up.

Jake
said

These comments are great, but if you really want to change anything, comments on a website won't get the job done. Call your elected representative - and before you scoff at the idea; remember that if they don't get elected (or re-elected) they don't earn that cushy gov't pension - tell them that if they don't support tougher jail sentences, more funding for law enforcement, etc., that this will be their last term. Make THEM accountable. If thousands of people start calling, they'll take action.
Don't blame the Tory's or the Liberals. No one holds the gov't accountable for anything, so they know that they don't have to provide results.

John fr Saskatchewan
said

And the next thing McGuinty should call for is a wholesale counseling strategy for all those guns about to suffer severe rejection, adding, of course, a counselling effort to dissuade these guns from shooting people.

k hickey
said

There goes McGuinty getting into bed with Miller again. It is because of these leaders' socialist agendas that nobody wants to accept responsibility for these problems. Legal handguns didn't cause this. Parents of these criminals blame the government/society for their woes. Proper upbringing knows no class system. If these punks were raised properly in the first place they would be productive citizens. I am a son of immigrants. I knew right from wrong growing up. I feel no sympathy when I see a gang member shot in the news. I feel sympathy for the innocent bystander who gets caught in the crossfire. Usually by some punk who should already have been locked up or deported for previous crimes.

Brian E - Calgary
said

Blame whoever you like... politicians... judges...mothers. It really doesn't matter. The gun crimes will continue. Not because of the law abiding gun owners, but because of a criminal element that ignores the rules of society and doesn't care about the pathetic penalties. Add to that our awful justice system and there you have it.

So go ahead, bring in all the laws you like. Ban all guns. Ban knives while you're at it (the weapon of choice for murder). Make yourselves FEEL safe. It will not matter. Without a decent justice system to properly deal with the offenders, all those laws are worth nothing.

We live beside the biggest arms producer in the world. Do you honestly think you're going to stop gun crime here by banning guns. Give you head a shake! I could get an illegal unregistered gun in this country before you could respond to this comment. They are here. And they will continue to be here until law enforcement are given the power and people to stop it. The petty laws the Liberals brought in will do nothing.

As a retired police officer I can tell you that while the police are not perfect, they try. However they have little or no support from the courts. Too much legal system and not enough justice system.

As far as the gun registry goes, it is a joke created by the Liberals and put over on Canadians in an effort to make Canadians THINK the government was doing something about crime. Hogwash!

Can the conservatives do better with improving the situation? They are not perfect, but they deserve a chance. They certainly can't do any worse than the Liberals have done, and probably won't spend two billion dollars on something that doesn't have a hope in hell of working.

Good luck to them, and you.

Jim Nissila
said

Well put Matt. How much are you going to pay me for my handguns McGuinty? Not just the original purchase price,the modifications so they are deadly accurate even at night, and the safe they are stored in which allows me to access and lock n' load in under 2 seconds with my head still comfortably on my pillow, but the compensation required now that my family is not nearly as well protected. You see if any of these "victims who were well known to police" want to bring their illegal guns to my doorstep, I certainly would rather dial .357 than 911 in response with my LEGAL ones. Bottom line, the police are overtaxed, they can't respond in time, and all they'll be doing after a home invasion 911 call is a body count. Better the invader's body than the homeowner. Not for Sale...

Jim, recently moved to S.Ont from out West......it's different here.....

Al in Ottawa
said

Here we go again. McGuinty and Miller calling for a handgun ban. There are 3 classes of weapons: non-restricted, restricted, prohibited.
a) non-restricted = hunting rifles. You need a CPC (firearms license).
b) restricted = handguns. You need SPECIAL CPC. It is illegal to carry the handgun with you. Must be kept at an official shooting range.
c) prohibited = machine guns/assault weapons. No civilian can possess one legally.

The only thing that a ban would do is move the handgun from the restricted level to the prohibited level. This won't make a difference at all in all the shootings that are happening and here's why:
1) handguns are ALREADY a RESTRICTED weapon. None of these criminals register their weapons as they get them illegally and couldn't even qualify to own one legally in the first place.
2) it is ALREADY illegal for anyone (except law enforcement) to carry a concealed weapon. The criminals are already ignoring this law.
3) the handguns are smuggled illegally into Canada from the U.S. They are not bought legally in Canada.

Basically, the only thing a handgun ban will do is allow the politicians to pretend they're doing something. It will not cause the slightest drop in handgun violence.

cindy
said

Al I totally agree with you, this is not a political agenda for preelection stance.
It is reality that should have been in effect years ago.
Although the weapon of choice after that will be knives.

fitzz
said

Yawn !

Here we go again. Surely the politicians, especially "Liar" McGuinty must grow tired of hearing the sound of their own voices, no? We have had a virtual ban on handguns in Canada since the 1930's.

We need NO NEW LAWS! How about a little enforcement of the existing ones? Guess what, Dalton? In Ontario, the ownership of the cops and the courts gives YOU the power to act. Stop whining to others and get on with doing your own job!

Vince
said

There are enough laws on the books already to address this problem. The fact of the matter is that the Crown continually negotiates down any possession charge. If McGuinty was serious, he would have his Attorney-General change that policy - no negotiation on gun charges - period. Stop trying to deflect responsibility to some other arm of government.

John Maguire
said

Come on McGuinty, give your head a shake. Do you really think that banning handguns would have prevented this? I think it would be a safe bet that the gun used in this horrific event wasn't legal. Rather than making knee jerk statements like McGuinty and Miller have why don't the politicians make it harder on the idiots that commit these crimes. Make them do some serious jail time and maybe a few innocent lives may be saved.

Lyndsay
said

With regard to:

Andrew
I'm glad I live in Ottawa and not Toronto -

Ottawa is not the safest city either, I have heard of many instances of crime in Ottawa

Shawn
said

Ok, you Tory folks need to reduce your meds intake.

How many criminals do you know take the time to register their stolen/ illegally possessed handguns? Answer: zero (d'uh)
Yes, this is a sarcastic comment but think about it for a moment. This will have a zero impact on crime reduction. The people that I know who do have handguns are indeed responsible, law abiding citizens. Imposing yet another ban to make oneself look good for the polls is not the answer.

Henry Wysmulek
said

Hate to break it to you sunshine, but handguns have been banned in Canada SINCE THE 1930'S.

Yet every time the conservatives want to bring in tougher laws against criminals, they are out voted?

momma
said

Our judicial system is a joke. Do whatever you like and receive a slap on the wrist and that's about it. What happened to an eye for an eye and life in prison when it meant life, not five years or less.

Grace
said

Well we can blame Mr.Harper for this one,because he hasn't done a thing to stop all this violence. Just look at what he has done to protect our soldiers - nothing!

Jim McB
said

Every politician that is failling to get the job done gets on the bandwagon of some policy. The gun was likely smuggled into the country and banning it would have had no impact. It is not like the criminals would be driving down the street brandishing the thing.

When you promote "liberal" policies for personal conduct and justice this is the end result. The criminals end up in control. Just think, the perpetrator of this crime if caught would even get to vote in the federal election.

Jarret from T-Bay
said

Hey, let's ban cars because he fell out of a moving one. Here's another serious idea: ban guns for anybody living in Toronto because those idiots living there are ruining gun ownership for the rest of us law abiding Canadians.

Lea-Ptbo
said

I say bring Marshall Law to Toronto ...Our boys can fight in Afganhistan and we can't even get our homeland secure ....What will it take to end this ridiculious violence in Toronto!!!

pg
said

Banning handguns-- a good cosmetic measure.. Just political rhetoric..

Weren't people killing one another when there were no guns? If there are no guns people will find other means to kill. Instead of targeting the millions of law-abiding gun owners , why don't they target the criminals? Do you think that by banning handguns criminals will stop using them? What a joke..

Whom are you trying to fool - Mr McGuinty?

John
said

How about giving out much harsher jail sentences. We need tougher judges.

Jerry
said

Banning guns will not stop gun crime. Liquor was banned at one time but it still was able to be brought over the border. It's a crime to bring in drugs but drugs still make it over the border. Anybody in their right mind has to realize that a gun ban will not stop guns from coming over the border. A gun ban would mean that only the criminals will have guns. They don't respect the laws anyway. We have mandatory jail terms in the Criminal Code when someone convicted of a crime involving guns but our Crown Attorneys have been ordered to deal these cases away as our jails are too full now. Maybe if the justice system was overhauled and the mandatory sentences were imposed, it would make a difference.

North of the City
said

Most of you have got the wrong idea, so let's look at it in a clean view. First, a gun registry will not stop illgail guns. Second, the laws can be harsh but it will not stop crime. Third, if Harper or another goverment took what tax cuts they promise and passed them on to the police to hire more people then this problem would decrease. The problem is there is not enough money being spent on crime provention. Yes, there should be more vehicle searches at the borders. The US performs this so we can too. But we do need more police to track down these crooks. It is simple. Premier Dalton McGuinty should have the money to pay for more police and if he does not have it then Parlament should come up with it. By the way Toronto is not the only city that has this problem in Canada.

bunny
said

Ban guns again? Didnt we just go all through that? It didn't work did it? This is a knee jerk reaction, and when I say jerk, I mean it!

Marvin
said

What an absolutely poor excuse for a Leader. McGuinty is not a Leader; he is nothing more than a politician. The violence continues and all McGuinty ever does is stand up and cry for a ban on legally owned and licensed guns. A leader would actually come up with or at least try some strategies to curb the violence. A politician will only try to tickle the ears of the electorate regardless of how ineffective the plan is. This way it appears that he is doing something while in truth he is doing absolutely nothing. That's what a handgun ban is. Everyone knows these are illegally acquired, illegally owned guns. Let's see, the criminal has no gun possession license, the gun is illegal and the gun is not registered. On top of this the criminal is committing murder. I know! Let's ban legal, licensed, law abiding citizens from owning guns. That will stop the Toronto violence right????

my 2 cents
said

Let's ban people from Ontario, not handguns. It is people from Ontario killing each other, so ban them. The guns did not do the killing, just the people using them.

I think everyone should carefully examine this proposal. A Liberal government in Toronto, Ontario would take your handguns away. I think a Liberal government in Ottawa, Ontario would try to do the same.

It is sick that these useless excuses for leaders can try to ban legal handguns simply because their own citizens can't be properly kept from killing each other with illegal handguns. If the provincial government was calling for tougher sentences for using a gun when committing a crime, or tougher sentences for theft of a gun or ammunition then I could see it potentially having an effect.

The problem with tougher sentences is that they don't address crimes that happened in the past, only ones that happen in the future. It takes a few years before you see any real difference in the crime rate because by then more criminals have been behind bars longer. Governments fall in shorter times which is why the Liberals always opt for the more flashy "gun ban" that plays well in the big city where people don't understand gun ownership and are afraid of guns.

Conservative governments at least have the guts to advocate those tougher sentences that have a true long term effect on crime rates, while keeping a reasonable approach to gun control by ensuring that collectors and sport users can own guns whereas people with a history of violence can't.

JD Ottawa
said

Do not blame the Americans or the Federal Tories, or the Ontario Liberals for these gun crimes. The guns are on the streets because there is a demand for them.
David Miller needs to get tough on crime and clean up the streets at street level. He needs to do this by giving the Chief of Police more freedom to get the job done free of the beaucracy that exists.
This is how New York cleaned itself up and Toronto can do it the same way.
Unfortunately, Mr. Miller thinks adding more police officers prevents gang violence. Too bad that he is wrong.

Jim in the West
said

Toronto is not the centre of Canada, and what may be important in Toronto may not be important in Regina or Edmonton. A hand gun ban won't make the slightest difference and McGuinty knows it. It is, however, a clever swipe at the Tories. So let Toronto or even Ontario ban hand guns. (Sorry to the law abiding hand gun owners out there.) There is little reason for them to do it, but even less for the rest of us.

Dave, Ottawa
said

I'm about ready to give up on this country and move to Vermont. They have a lower violent crime rate than we do in Canada and hardly any firearms restrictions. Residents can carry guns openly or concealed with no permit required. Ever visit the Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream factory there? Did you feel unsafe?

Seth
said

We need tougher laws. If a person is arrested for a violent crime, they shouldn't be out on bail!!

Also, any time served shouldn't go towards their sentencing. I'm sick of hearing criminals being let out of jail due to time served. Whoever is the next PM needs to take a tougher stand.

Pat from Mississauga
said

So Dalton wants a handgun ban. What penalty is he proposing for the possession of the handgun? The Liberals fight all attempts to toughen up sentences so tell us, Dalton, what penalty do you propose? A slap on the wrist?

Trevor
said

Don't think for a second that the murders committed by handguns are done with legally acquired firearms purchased at the mall.
Quit posing for the camera Dalton, it makes you look like Harper.

Josh
said

Immigration is driving this country you say? That is a whole new subject in intself, one that makes me blood boil everytime I talk about it. It's a sad day when born and raised Canadians are becoming the minority.

But as for guns. Banning gun will do nothing. Criminals will be crimals. They will continue to break the law, and people will continue to die whether guns are banned or not. Just like you can't get drugs off the streets, you can't get rid of the guns.

Claire
said

They can ban guns all they want, but in the end, it won't reduce gun crime in the slightest. These guns are unregistered, illegal, and unknown to the police in the first place. So, how is a gun ban going to change anything?

Meanwhile, the law-abiding members of the sport shooting community, which includes off-duty police officers, paramedics, firefighters, military personnel, businesspeople, teachers, and others are going to have their lawful property confiscated? Liberal logic at its best. If you subscribe to their way of thinking, then you really do deserve your politicians.

London Mike
said

There is no reason for people to have handguns in cities. Simply ban them, period. If people in the country want to hunt with shotguns,etc, fine.

Charles
said

"I think we should aspire to be a handgun-free society," he said.

Wow... how naive can you get? I wonder how many T.O. gangbangers share his point of view? McGunity has had a hate-on for firearms ever since his son was robbed at gunpoint - squirt gun or real gun, not sure if it was ever determined.

Mike
said

Justice System..Justice System..Justice System...Justice System....Justice System...Justice System...Justice System...Justice System........IS A JOKE

Unfortunaly, I have a front row seat to the way our Provincial and Federal Judges operate in our courts. They are more likely to "object" to a police officer giving evidence then the actual defence attorneys.

Crown attorneys are now being forced to make plea agreements with the "obviously guilty" criminals because heaven forbid one out of 15-20 officers in a single Criminal Investigation makes one oversight in their notes. If they do, the case is thrown out.

NOT EVEN MCGUINTY has authority over our "Judges".

Hannah
said

Why does everyone use articles on TV network websites to blog about their politcal views? If you haven't noticed there's lots of politcal websites and articles you can blog on! Go vote and stop rubbing who you voted for in everyone's faces! The article is about gun control!

Scott, Oakville
said

I like the way McGuinty doesn't even wait to hear whether the guns involved were presently legal before suggesting that all guns be outlawed.

Does anyone actually believe that a ban would actually have stopped the particular individual in question from obtaining a gun? I seriously doubt it.

So what McGuinty is proposing is a new law that will have very little effect, other than saying, ``Hey, look at me grandstand for the cameras''.

How about novel and effective ways of neutralizing the bad behaviours of known criminals?

James A.
said

Michelle from Ottawa
Is this a reflection of the Tories' tough stance on crime?

Yes... because they continue to fail at dealing with the underlying problems that cause it.

They're hot to tot on deterrents, throwing people in jail for longer periods. And if the crime is committed, so they should. But the Harper idealogues forget about prevention. Throwing the criminals in jail for longer doesn't help the victim. The victim is still a victim.

However, if the crime could have been prevented, no
victim.

Crime will always exist. The goal must be to reduce it by deterrent and prevention.

So Harper's getting tough on crime is a slogan with a half baked solution.

Dack Black
said

Every country that has banned guns has seen a meteoric rise in violent crime. To think that it would work here is plainly a denial of reality. Longer sentences for violent and repeat offenders is the only answer. We will not see this however, because it is easier and cheaper to ban an inanimate object than place the blame where it squarely belongs, ON THE CRIMINAL.

Dennis - Ottawa
said

The alleged "rationale" behind the ban is that handguns can be stolen from legitimate owners, and then used in crime. There should be some hard numbers to back up this claim.

How many guns actually USED in crimes (not "recovered from crimes scenes", which can include guns confiscated during domestics, or seized from homes for other reasons) can be traced back to legal, Canadian owners?

Project Gun Runner, conducted by the OPP back in the 90's, concluded that only around 14% of crime guns were ever registered.

kellie
said

I agree a lot with what John said: "It is a reflection of unrestrained immigration" and another comment that was made yesterday with regard to this story.....Parents apparently have no more rights when it comes to disciplining their own children. Parents are scared of getting disciplined for discipling their own children. And we are scared of discipline because we had discipline as children. How screwed up is that?

Phil
said

Another politician trying to score cheap political points by calling for a gun ban. Only one problem, gun bans have a 100% failure rate.

This happened in Toronto. Doesn't Toronto have a handgun ban already?

It's time to bring in concealed carry laws into this country. Our anti-gun laws aren't working.

Ali
said

...Instead of calling for an all-out ban, why don't they insist on legislation that would impose an automatic mandatory minimum 25 year sentence with no early parole for anyone in possession of an unregistered gun? That way, we'd get some use from that expensive otherwise useless gun registry.

And the same mandatory minimum sentence for anyone convicted of using a gun in any crime whatsoever. And while we're at it, how about making it impossible for criminals to get off on technicalities?

Pat Spicer
said

Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that carrying a handgun was already banned in Canada. Just like the registration of fire-arms, the criminals always find an illegal means of acquiring a gun. Perhaps better border patrol to stop the illegal smuggling of guns into Canada would be a more appropriate response.

Gun bans are for the politically insane !!
said

Criminals laugh at politicians and their supporters who think a gun ban will solve the issue of guns on the streets - THEY LAUGH AT YOUR IGNORANCE !!

Criminals get illegal guns from criminals who bring them into Canada.

A gun ban will give the socialists the fuzzies but it wont help make our streets safe for our children.

Lawrence
said

I can't believe McGuinty is calling for a ban on hand guns after this. DUH! KNEEJERK! First he needs to at least reel in the pathetic court system to deal with the aftermath but even before that, he needs create a workable program to help educate all kids about violence & gangs. Target the impressionable grades 4, 5 & 6. Drill into them the respect of the law. Clearly it's not happening at home.

Roy
said

Hey Paul, you implied that 50% of the handguns used in crime are stolen from those that legally have them, but you, and the others in the media, provide no proof....And you call that responsible reporting?...

Steve Daly, Mississauga
said

Killing people and throwing bodies on the 401 are both illegal. Despite this, both action were still carried out. I'm reasonably sure that the person who pushed the body out of the moving vehicle wasn't wearing a seatbelt either. At least 3 laws broken.. would 4 make it better?

If the animals involved are willing to ignore laws already in place how can we expect that a handgun ban will serve any purpose other than more paperwork?

Let's have a reality check, a ban on handguns only works if you first ban common sense.

B from NB
said

It is a known and proven fact that LONGER jail terms do not curb crime. A person who is of the criminal element and is placed in Jail becomes a HARDENED criminal. In order to reduce the amount of violent crime PREVENTION is the key. More money needs to be placed in youth programs that are relevant to the communities and take into account ethnic, religious, and cultural differences. Immigration is not the problem so get off your high horse "Anglo-Saxon" Canada. More crimes are committed in this country by home grown Canadians.

Paul Thiessen Winnipeg
said

To all those people who believe the Tories resistance to gun laws, we no longer live in the wild wild west. What I read in the Article was the mayor of TO and the premier of Ontario are asking for a ban on handguns not hunting rifles. I have hunted for many years but strangley I've never seen a hunter use a handgun to shoot game. If people with firearms have nothing to hide what is the real problem with gun regristry. Any gun you buy now is automatically registered somewhere. As soon as you show your firearms acquisition card it is logged into a database. If you want a safe enviroment to live in we all must do our part, hiring more police, putting people in jail longer, and having to build more jails will cost taxpayers a lot more than the gun regristry.

Ron In Fredericton
said

Sure let's ban handguns. We can take the compensation for owner out of federal transfers to municipalities.
Let's ban sodomy while we're at it and solve most of our HIV problem.
Liberals and lefties love those simple solutions,especially when they get to ban something.
Toronto has a race problem and not a gun problem.Solve that first Dalton and David.

kevin from Toronto
said

people on here forgot in their arguments of politics that someone's life was taken in a horrible public way.
why I bother to read this anyways...it is usually a few arguing back and forth

Steve from Calgary
said

I wonder if someone so bold and stupid to dump a body on a crowded freeway just packed with witnesses would have thought to use a stolen car rather than his own car and license plate. There must be a good deal to proceed with in this investigation.

not a tory lover
said

Hey Tory lovers
Michelle has a right to her beliefs and she is not alone.
You guys are more brainwashed everyday with believing that Harper really cares about the average Canadian citizen.
Tougher penalties for crimes and more respect for victims is needed but he approves of these slack happy slap on the wrists that are given out to criminals -- thats why there are so many of them. i deal with victims every day and some won't come public because it DOESN'T do them any good.
lets hope another party gets in and will deal with this issue because Harper won't.
and yes the States does have more crimes then Canada but the population is a lot larger as well.

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