CTV News | Dion's carbon tax plan attacked by Layton, Harper

Canada -   

Dion's carbon tax plan attacked by Layton, Harper

Viewer

CTV News Video

Canada AM: Strategists on the campaign directions
CTV National News: Lisa LaFlamme on the battle over the carbon tax
CTV Newsnet: Jack Layton campaigns in Montreal
CTV Newsnet: Jack Layton, speaking in Westmount-Ville-Marie, Que., explains his party's environmental policy
CTV Newsnet: Rosemary Thompson on Layton calling the Liberal carbon tax plan 'bad policy'
CTV Newsnet: Graham Richardson on Layton specifically named Dion and his 'Green Shift' policy for the first time
CTV Newsnet: John Williamson, Canadian Taxpayer Federation on the 'Green Shift' plan
CTV Newsnet: Stephen Harper campaigns in Montreal and says 'Green Shift' plan is a threat to national unity, part one
CTV Newsnet: Stephen Harper campaigns in Montreal and says 'Green Shift' plan is a threat to national unity, part two
CTV Newsnet: Robert Fife on Harper criticizing the Liberal plan

Font-size:      Share  Print  Comments(147)

CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. Sep. 11 2008 5:14 PM ET

In a sure sign that politics makes strange bedfellows, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper and NDP Leader Jack Layton both took aim at Liberal Leader Stephane Dion's "Green Shift" carbon tax plan Thursday.

Harper lashed out at the plan, saying it would cause a catastrophic recession and fracture national unity.

"The purpose of their plan is not to lower emissions, it's to get money for the government, and that will cost every consumer," Harper said at a Montreal campaign stop.

Layton attacked Dion for the first time on the campaign trail, calling the Liberal plan "bad policy" and said the NDP's cap-and-trade plan for reducing emissions would be a more effective system than a carbon tax.

But Matthew Bramley, of the sustainable energy think-tank Pembina Institute, said the two leaders' criticisms of the carbon tax plan is not backed up by the facts.

"Mr. Harper and Mr. Layton's opposition to carbon taxes is contradicted by leading economics and business organizations who say taxing pollution is a good way to harness market forces to fight global warming," Bramley said in a statement.

"There is no evidence to support Mr. Harper's claim that a modest carbon tax would cause a recession. In fact, Mr. Dion's proposed tax would need to be further increased to enable Canada to meet science-based targets for greenhouse gas reductions."

Both Norway and Sweden have had a carbon tax plan since the early 1990s.

According to an April 29, 2008 Guardian article, Sweden cut its overall carbon emissions by nine per cent between 1990 and 2006. Its economy grew by 44 per cent in that period.

Dion's "Green Shift" plan would tax fossil fuels, returning the costs in the form of income tax cuts.

The Liberals describe it as revenue and cost-neutral -- something Harper has dismissed as unrealistic.

John Williamson of the Canadian Taxpayer's Federation said on CTV Newsnet Thursday that Dion's plan was not truly "revenue neutral."

"This is a fiscal transfer from taxpayers to low income Canadians," he said. "That is not the definition of a tax neutral plan."

Another type of criticism

Harper used his strongest language yet to slam the Liberal leader's plan, saying it would fan separatist flames by putting too much power and money back in Ottawa's hands.

"The carbon tax will do more than undermine the economy," Harper said. "By undermining the economy and by re-centralizing money and power in Ottawa, it can only undermine the progress we have been making on national unity."

Harper said his party is the only one with a realistic election platform, suggesting the other parties would all either have to boost taxes or run a deficit to pay for the promises they are making on the campaign trail.

Dion defends plan

Dion, who began Day 5 of the campaign in New Brunswick, tried to sell the $15 billion plan to supporters at a pancake breakfast.

Many Liberals in the Maritimes have complained the plan is hard to sell to residents in provinces where much of the industry relies heavily on fuel, such as forestry, fishing and oil refinement.

He told the Saint John Board of Trade that Harper's criticism of the plan doesn't hold water.

"Stephen Harper said his plan for the country is to 'stay the course.' But we know the course he set in 2006 -- he has allowed what was a booming economy to hit a brick wall," Dion said.

"Even Statistics Canada admits that the struggling U.S. economy is outperforming Canada's economy. Statistics Canada reported yesterday that Canada's labour productivity has fallen for nine months straight. This is Canada's worst performance since 1990 - since Brian Mulroney."

He also criticized Harper, saying he is trying to turn every election issue into a debate on national unity.

Comments are now closed for this story

Lowell
said

I am surprised that there is so much negativity about the carbon tax. I always thought Canadians were more progressive than this. We seem to be playing catch up with other parts of the world in this regard. The onus in the fight against global warming has to fall on the individual's shoulders. Corporations in their quest to satisfy shareholder's investments have no incentive to do it.
If you tax them, they will react by downsizing, and cutting back on their cost of doing business which has negative impact on the econmy. The public needs to make changes to their lifestyles and the carbon tax provides incentives to do that. If you are doing an activity that is causing more harm to the environment, you might change that behavior if a tax is levied against you. I think it boils down to the fact that people want their cake and they also want to eat it. They want to protect the environment but they don't want to pay for it. It's like nobody wants to pay any taxes yet they want safe roads, a great health care system and free education. Dion is on the right track and even Harper knows it but he is so power hungry that he will do anything to get re-elected with a majority.


Mark M
said

How ANYONE can blindly accept that we (taxpayers) hand over boatloads of cash to a Liberal government and then THEY will decide how to divy that up back to us at tax time is insane!!!

The amount of bureaucracy involved alone is staggering and will likely cost millions, if not billions!!! And the chance for boon-doggles with this huge new system hasn't been this high since the gun registry.

Sorry I'd rather keep the money in my hands and deal with my own energy bills than "trust" Dion with my money so he can decide who deserves it - which probably does not include middle class me.

I've got two words for ya...CASH GRAB! Revenue neutral for the government maybe, but not for all us middle class.


Robin the Hood
said

Harper is being completely irresponsible. Sure, leave the climate change problem for future generations to fix. Typical for a selfish, self-centered baby boomer who cares for nothing but his own wallet. The only reason he did not want May in the debate is because his pathetic record on the environment is utterly indefensible. What can he say? climate change is a myth and what we're seeing now and the scientists are reporting is a illusion and a conspiracy without a motive? He may as well. Does he ponder the future of his kids? Can I venture to guess that he really does not care for their future? Canadians who cannot see this are either completely blind or morally bankrupt to the nth degree. Sorry, but that's simply the bottom line in assessing the motive of the doubters and deniers.



bunny
said

Unity and the economy yes but the carbon tax for me is a big fat zero.I do not want to be taxed any more than I am.I really want to put some money away in a tax free savings account for my grandson.


J.C.
said

Sorry Lowell, but I agree with Harper. We do not need any more taxes. I am on a fixed income and cannot afford further taxing. It is difficult to purchase food and necessities now. Why can't the environment be fixed without adding more taxes?? If we pay down the debt enough without holding "coffers", the money saved from paying interest could be used for the environment. Maybe Dion should look at that instead of taxing us more.His way would just force more businesses to move south to get out of paying more taxes anyway!!!


Al Ottawa
said

If you go to the Liberal's greenshift website, they only list a few of the many ways that things will be taxed. One of which is diesel, on which they say they will add a tax of 5%. Think about it, EVERYTHING you buy is delivered by truck to whatever store you buy from. That 5% will be passed down to all of us. And that's just diesel!

Here's my unsolicited opinion:

1) if you tax poluters and polution related stuff, the cost will get simply passed down to us, and very little will change. Polution and GHG won't improve, government will get more money and we will get poorer.
2) if the government would enact legistlation which would actually close down companies and manufacturers if they don't meet actual improvements, then it will still cost us, but there would actually be some change!

To avoid being closed, companies would make the changes. Of course it would mean that the cost of those improvements would still be passed down to us while the upgrades were happenning but there would be actual improvements for our environment and the cost to us would be mostly temporary. With the Greenshift, the taxes would never end and we'd get little to no environmental improvements...

Am I the only one seeing how pathetic our government parties are???


Marcel
said

To Lowell I agree with your comments. Why is the Canadian Public so scared of the Carbon Tax? At least the Liberal Party is trying to something about the environment. All Mr. Harper can do is criticize this plan. The Conservatives do not want talk about this subject, because they have done absolutely nothing on this file since they have been in office. Thank you


DRH
said

Alternative sources of energy and newer technology is/are not available right now. This is why the "Green Shift" will not be revenue neutral and will absolutely cost everyone in Canada who buys anything. There has never been and will never be a revenue neutral tax levied on the Canadian tax payer, especially by a Liberal government that is broke. Don't be fooled by these promises that Dion is making. Mr. Harper has stuck to his direction for the future of the Canadian economy and the welfare of the people. He has a degree in economics that has proven itself over the past 2 1/2 years. The PC government is the only goverment in the G7 that is running a surplus in its budget to date. The only way Dion can implement all these unreasonable promises he is making - you guessed it, raise taxes. Nuff said.


Jack
said

I simply don't get a carbon tax. How will a 7 cent tax on a litre of gas change anything that gas at 1.25 has not? The already high price of energy is going to do the job. I have to drive, I have to heat my home and I have to buy groceries. How is a carbon tax going to encourage me to look at alternatives? There are not alternatives except to conserve, which I am already doing without Mr Dion's unwanted help!



Larry
said

A lot of the discussion has focussed on the impact of a carbon tax on the individual. However, I am equally concerned with the impact it would have on the economy.

Whether or not it is the right solution to address environmental issues, its impact would be to fundamentally change the economy - to move us away from a carbon-dependent economy. This is a huge structural change and the economic costs of such a change will be tremendous.

Consider other structural changes we have made and the resulting transitional cost on businesses:

- free trade
- elmininate the manufacturers tax in favour of the GST
- the metric system
- National Energy Program

Regardless of whether you think these changes were positive or negative, there is no denying that the transitional costs for business was huge. These transitional costs bankrupted many businesses and dislocated huge numbers of jobs.

Whether the carbon tax is a good or bad policy for the environment, it is simply the wrong time to do it with the current global economic downturn.


Grenn Shift - how is it revenue neutral?
said

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I have a middle class family in Ontario. The carbon tax: 15 billion in added taxes and 15 billion back. So it's revenue neutral for government. But wait. He has a few billion to help those industries that are unhappy with the new tax (fishers/truckers). He has a few billion for new green innovation. He has a few billion to give to the poor to ofset higher prices for fuel(home heating and electricity). So I count 6-7 billion going to special groups, poor, business and innovation. So for every dollar he collects from me he has aleady spend 40-50 cents. So the Green Shift will not be revenue neutral to me. it will be yet another program to shift wealth to the poor and big business. Am I wrong?


Marie, Ottawa
said

There is one very important issue that is missing here. We have people in this country who are living in third-world conditions, and are subject to abuse, neglect and racism - Canada's First Nations peoples. I am not a First Nations person myself, but I find this lack of acknowledgement disgusting.

What needs to happen to make this a "popular" topic again? All those people without clean water, despite being out of the public eye, still don't have clean water. This is but one example. Lack of running water. Shoddy housing. Lack of schools. This is Canada! How can we accept this? We need to cut through the stereotypes and misinformation, and work together to find a peaceful solution for everyone involved. The more the government ignores this situation, the more inflamatory it will become. I am a proud Canadian, but I want to know what our future leader will do about our national shame, and what is the plan to make things right?


A carbon taxation program is very regressive
said

The Dion massive carbon tax scheme is extremely regressive.

It is a punitive method of taxation which is backwards thinking rather than a progressive approach by government that would encourage Canadians to conserve and switch to alternate energies.

Another serious concern about "Green Shift Taxes" are the problems associated with their overbearing and widespread application which will not only hurt the transportation sector, the agricultural sector and automotive sector but it will also be inflationary and drain the economy of much a needed stimulus at a time when we need all the help we can get. By removing tens of billions of dollars out of the economy through carbon taxation Dion will be strangling our economy at the worst possible time.

This is not a good program and in fact would be detrimental to all Canadians everywhere.




Trent
said

I for one want to help the enviroment but not at the cost of haveing no money to do anything.Some people think its ok for this. Well, you must not have a life now. I have two kids and they will be going to college.If this was to go through I could only send one.That's the reality of carbon tax; we the users will pay dearly.We have this proffesor saying we must do something. Well, you get paid to find the answer and find one that works without distroying the lower class and middle class workers.Let's be smart!


M D Kerr
said

Living in BC with the provincial Liberals so called "revenue neutral" carbon tax I can tell you it is making me question my life long federal Liberals vote.
I can see the need to reduce fuel consumption and greenhouse gas emmisions, but yet another tax is the last thing Canadians need.
Let's try grants, bonuses and tax exemptions for grass roots Green initiatives.
Buried in BC's taxes.


BB in B.C.
said

I started changing my own carbon footprint 9 years ago but I'm not going to preach to the converted here. I feel that Canadians will do more to reduce their carbon output by incentives that benefit them directly than by a tax which will end up in the pockets of whoever is next on the government dole. We're not fools. Who wouldn't prefer a vehicle that gets better mileage? Who wouldn't choose affordable green options? Direct the effort to industry and big polluters before taxing the little guy. To say that Harper doesn't care about Canada or his own children sounds like something that would come from a diehard leftie with an obvious agenda who is in panic mode due to unfavorable polls.


lowell
said

JC
The problem is that not a lot of people are going to change their lifestyle voluntarily. We are too used to our creature comforts and we are at a stage which calls for more drastic action in order to give future generations a decent place to live. Companies are not implementing pollution controls voluntarily. Look at the Alberta tar sands. There are but a small number of companies who feel they have some ethical responsibility to do their bit for this cause. There are very few leaders willing to take a course of action, albeit the right one that is a hard sell to the public. After all, the end goal for the politician is to get elected and most politicans tell voters what makes them feel good, not what is going to cause them any discomfort. Then we end up with a leader like Harper who has absolutely no idea what constitutes a sound and effective environmental policy. Someone mentioned that the real reason for him not wanting Elizabeth May at the debates is because she was going to make him look bad in his ignorance about environmental issues. There may be some truth to that. The economists and environmental experts who are advocating the carbon tax can't be all wrong. Tying economic value to environmental protection is a good idea.


Environmental Welfare Class
said

How will the green shift reduce an individuals carbon footprint?

Wealthy people. Do you really think a few huindred exta bucks in a tax will stop the wealthy from buying their Hummers and mansions? I don't think so. Carbon reduction for the rich = 0

Poor people. Well, they can't afford to upgrade windows, buy efficient cars etc. to save money. The government will give them more money to offset the added costs for their basic needs (home heating electricity etc), so they have no incentive to change their lifestyle. Carbon reduction for the poor = 0.

Middle class. They will be hit with the highest taxes of all (i.e. no handouts for them)and they will be forced to reduce fuel use to make ends meet without lowering their standard of living. I know; I already keep my house at 65 in the winter and 77 in the summer, and I upgraded my insulation so I am not sure where else I can save. I will have to find more. Carbon reduction for middle class = lots.

So the way I see it, I will be part of a new environmental welfare class.

So the brunt of the reduction of the carbon foot print for Canadians will be borne by the middle class.


Jay
said

Whatever Harper. There are countries that already have a carbon tax and have not had happen to them what you are lying to Canadians about. In fact the European countries that brought in a carbon tax have had a huge boost to their econonmy.

Another day, another ConJob. So what do the Tories stand for exactly? So far they have just been attacking.


Your ol' pal Jimmy.
said

The May/Dion Everything Tax is more than an inconvenience. It will kill the economy. It will make little kids go hungry. It will take away every young couple's ability to buy a home. It will rob seniors of their retirement security. It's cold blooded murder.


Tony
said

Dino needs to think twice on this. A two year old can tell you a carbon tax will only hurt the low and middle income family and not the companies. As for the companies, they will just raise the price of all their products to cover the carbon tax.
L'ow and middle income families dont need a higher cost of living; they need a lower cost. Get with it Dion.


gibson
said

Mr Harper is bang on. The Liberals claimed bill c-68 would cost $2 million and ended up costing $2 billion. If you sent me for lunch to spend $10 and I spent $10000 would you trust me again ?


Max in Vancouver.
said

I am curious about this green shift plan.

So, I pay more tax (yeah right) and the government (Libs) take this tax and they reduce the carbon emmissions by doing.....????

Oh, I get it. Everyone will be so short of money, they won't be able to buy fuel and that will reduce the emmissions. What a plan!


John E
said

Look up what a former senior economist has to say about lack of action on climate change. It is going to cost us $7trillion. That is the true recession that Harper isn't talking about. I WANT MORE money in my pocket, and for pollution to be taxed instead!


Why a TAX?
said

I know the liberals like taxes but here is another option.

1. Ban all vehicles that are not fuel efficient. No big SUVs and no big trucks for city dwellers.

2. Ban all appliances that are not enery efficient. Only high efficiency furnaces, wahers, dryers, water heater etc.

3. Give tax write offs to individuals who make energy efficient upgrades to their homes. You could write off costs for improving insulation, efficiency window and furnaces.

In the end we would have to pay more to be more energy efficient, but instead of giving it to the government I would decide where I want to spend it.


Why a TAX?
said

I know the liberals like taxes but here is another option.

1. Ban all vehicles that are not fuel efficient. No big SUVs and no big trucks for city dwellers.

2. Ban all appliances that are not enery efficient. Only high efficiency furnaces, wahers, dryers, water heater etc.

3. Give tax write offs to individuals who make energy efficient upgrades to their homes. You could write off costs for improving insulation, efficiency window and furnaces.

In the end we would have to pay more to be more energy efficient, but instead of giving it to the government I would decide where I want to spend it.


Jim in Edmonton
said

Legislation, incentives and the UN are the answers. Russia, China and India must be brought on board. Our emissions are a drop in the bucket. Do this; don't raise taxes. Besides, can't politicians think of anything more creative than to raise taxes? We are over taxed in Canada and I have had enough taxes thank you.


Shingles, Winnipeg
said

The ashfalt shingles on my home need replacing. The cost of ashfalt shingles have increased by 40% in the last month due to the price of oil. This is a price I can hardly afford. If the Green Shift plan is implemented, how much more will the price of shingles go up? The Green Shift plan increase many costs that we do not think of. Will property taxes go up, because of costs to maintain roads? Where will it end? Financially, this is very scary.


The Duke of Regina
said

The Conservatives are saying that Dion is not a leader. And that's just not so. He is a leader. He will lead us to our economic doom.


RobO
said

Carbon Tax - Gee if we are going to be taxed for this then maybe we should also be taxed for beathing and passing gas, as these also leave a small carbon foot print. For a country of 33 Million our carbon foot print on the world is very small. But since we all want to jump on the Al Gore wagon and say the sky is falling, why don't we look towards to the year 2012 and December 21 st. Going by the Maya calander the world is going to end on this date. It seems that the scientists have agreed with the Maya's that on this date the earth will line up with centre of the Milky way and we will be in the direct line of a black hole that was only discovered five years ago. Let's start the big scare here. We all remember the big scare of 2000 with the computers.


calgarian
said

Oh Mr. Harper how blind are thee…
We are already on the fringe of a recession but I guess that must be hard to see from your high horse. Ask the manufacturing sector, watch the TSX, the banking sector even your precious resource sector.





Buba
said

What a crock!!!
Harper only knows how to play on peoples' baser instincts --- GREED and FEAR.
This is right from the Karl Rove textbook on dirty politics.


David
said

Harper is absolutely right and speaking as an economist myself I can assure people that this would be a disastrous move for us. The law on unintended consequences would run rampant through this scheme. The marketplace needs alternatives and not just gimmicks like this carbon tax because make no mistake, that is indeed what it is. I for one am tired of the same old Liberal idea that the answer to every social problem is a large scale government program that invariably ends up becoming part of the problem and not the solution. The taxpayer ends up cleaning up the mess. Axe The Tax!


Paul in Beautiful BC
said

Now is the time to deal with climate change; not some distant time in the future. So I support the tax shift to reduce income taxes and put it at the source of pollution instead. Even if you do not believe the planet is warming up and the polar ice caps are melting, fossil fuels are literally killing us. Our air is dirty and our health is compromised - Beijing is a prime example of a polluted city and North America is also polluted.

Harper's policy is do nothing while the other parties' policies are to do something. The choice is clear, let's do something and let's do it now.


A bit of tax now or a HECK of a lot later!
said

Uhh newsflash ... We're pretty much already in a recession and Harper has no buffer because he spent until the cupboards were bare (his intent). He cut the wrong tax (if he had cut income taxes instead then people like J.C. would have a bit more room in his budget). The GST cuts don't do anything to help people save money on essentials like groceries - they tend to better help the well-to-do when they're buying higher-priced luxury items.

I am educated and was unemployed for a duration after the tech/bust and 9/11 and thankfully I was able to take advantage of the government support system at the time.

I am definitely glad that I had been paying taxes and paying into the EI program all those years before.

Most of us don't realize until much later why we pay all these taxes/premiums here in Canada.

If we tax the dirty fuels, then perhaps we'll be able to convince companies to start investing in cleaner technologies since it would be cheaper on their bottom line . Companies like Purolator have been "evaluating" hybrid diesel/electric truck conversions now for 3-4 yrs but still haven't committed to fully retro-fitting their fleet.

Yes, we might pay a bit more now to reduce emissions or we can pay a hell of a lot more later for our healthcare and insurance, damage from weather (as Haligonians how they feel) all because of the increased effects of climate change/pollution.







Facts the tree hugers didn't tell you ....
said

Check it out for yourself don't just listen to what socialists and tree huggers tell you:

FACT: Climatologists are telling us all the evidence points to the fact that the earth is actually cooling NOT warming.

FACT:
For too long people have checked their brains at the door when it comes to believing these enviro-freaks who have deliberately misled the public about CO2, pollution and GHG.

FACT:
Air pollution is something we need to do something about in cities like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Winnipeg and Ottawa.

FACT:
Air pollution is out of control and thousands of Canadians are dying each year because of air pollution.

FACT:
One immediate and simple solution is to use ethanol fuel until we can find better alternate energies.

FACT:
Ethanol fuel can reduce air pollution compared to regular gas by up to 30%. That would have an immediate impact on cities like Toronto whose population is slowly being poisoned to death by air pollution.




Mark
said

... The Firearms Registry widely touted by the Liberals was also to be 'revenue neutral'-paid for by the registration fees. It has cost well over $1 billion.

So it was nowhere near neutral but has in fact been a financial sink hole.

Now I'm supposed to believe the Liberals again on a 'revenue neutral' tax?

No thanks. Once bitten, twice shy. I agree with Mr. Harper. No tax is ever 'revenue neutral'. This sort of behaviour is within the very DNA of the Liberal party: Tax me and spend.


pp
said

...Harper -

We are well on our way to a recession - why do you insist on stating that we are not?

Sheesh - I love it that an educated economist can be so blind (I am being sarcastic here as he darn well knows we are headed for a recession) - but I guess that he has to be positive for the country in saying we are not in for a recession - unless of course we vote for the carbon tax!!!

What with the Ontario economy flatlining and the auto sector failing miserably and fuel and food prices sky rocketing - well, we don't need the carbon tax to give us a recession - we are well on our way to that as it is!


Steve
said

Harper is once again fear mongering.What is his big plan to fight pollution?I haven't heard anything yet.I think Harper is only concerned about the interests of oil producing Alberta.Where is his election platform anyway?


Nanook
said

Six Billion ...on the earth, and the country with only 30 million has to clean up it's act??? We could all go back to horse and buggy and solar power and in the grand scheme of things, the earth would be no better off. Hello China, the Excited States, India and Russia, for starters???


Howard Holtman
said

Think about it....If the carbon tax works then carbon emissions go down and the carbon tax revenue is decreased so...income taxes must go back up....unless the tax doesn't work and then the tax can continue to fund Liberal social programs.


Taxman
said

The Liberal so called Neutral tax is maybe neutral overall but anything but this to a large number of Canadians. They talk about reducing taxes to offset. If you have income below $20+, or almost 30+ for a senior couple, there is no income tax. Dion can't reduce the tax below 0! However these low income couples will have to pay extra to cover the "green" tax.

This is a tax on the poor. Pure and simple. Why the NDP do not stress this is beyond me. Maybe they also don't understand it...



cp.
said

...It still bothers me that Canadians are only responsible for around 1% of the total global GHG and Dion wants to beat us up on this? Why don't we tariff products from those countries that are the big offenders (i.e.: China, Russia, India, etc)? Why should we support their bad habits?
Also something to think about. Another name for the Carbon Tax is the National Energy Program II. If this is brought into place, don't worry about Quebec separating; worry about the West separating and leaving Central Canada shopping on the global market for energy.


William
said

I do not understand people who keep posting the following: well at least the Liberals are doing something! The only thing Dion is doing is trying to con you out of your vote. This idea that somehow the Conservatives are not doing anything is ridiculous. They have a plan that is being implemented right now that will achieve real and concrete reductions without taxing us to death. Last but not least, saying at least they are doing something is like visiting a doctor because of a sore foot and he says we have to amputate - but hey at least you don't have cancer in your head!


arthur
said

I think everyone is missing the "shift" part of green shift. The idea is not to increase the amount of tax the government collects, but to shift the taxes from one area to another. For example you increase the tax on gas to discourage people from driving while at the same time decreasing their income tax in the same amount.

In this way you discourage the use of fossil fuels and encourage the development of new technology such as hydrogen cars. It's a proven technique that is used in many countries.

Of course every change in the tax system has gainers and losers. For example the increase in income tax and decrease in the GST that Harper instituted hurt me.


Dennis
said

Let the fear mongering begin.. Conversatives = Republicans


Taxed enough B.C.er
said

I don't believe in any new taxes including a Green Shift Tax, but regardless of that, we will be entering a reccession anyway. A Green shift tax won't bring one on - it won't help but it won't be the sole reason for it. Come on Mr. Harper you're smarter than that.


lowell
said

Jack
You need some vision. In their quest to reduce their living expenses, consumers will have a higher demand for automobiles that conserve energy like hybrids ( better than gas guzzlers but still not the best). This will cause automobile manufacturers to become even more innovative thus creating new kinds of jobs (so called green economy). Houses will be built better with more emphasis on things like heat conservation which will cause more innovation, new types of companies and more jobs. By creating this tax, it will drive more innovation to create newer and more efficient products to reduce the carbon footprint thus reducing the taxes. People seem to think that the carbon tax is a money grab. Its purpose is not to generate revenue for the government since it is going to be offset by other tax decreases. It is a paradyme shift of sorts to get people to change their ways and to kickstart new ideas in generating new economic activity. How do we create more jobs? The focus on the carbon footprint will initiate a new economy with products and services geared to its reduction.


Chuck
said

I get a kick out of these con-supporters who get outraged at the notion of COOPERATION - lol. I even read one comment on here -- a guy asserted that such cooperation was "undemocratic". Good heavens...

I'm growing very concerned that we need to invest more in education(!) in Canada because a lot of people are clearly growing up to be morons despite our supposed status as an "advanced" society.

Tips for cons:
1) Thinking inovles thinking THROUGH. (A good short-term strategy might not take care of your long-term interests.)
2) Legislation is not good if it will not withstand the test of time. Ask yourself: "Will this new law survive a decade? ...a century? Is my aim really to CAUSE INSTABILITY by investing a LOT of energy in things that won't survive?"
3) Smashing & fracturing our society, our environment, & our esteemed institutions will achieve the following: Alberta separation - is that what you are really up to?? Cleaving the oil giant off of Canada (maybe for the USA?)? That's what it looks like to me - a stunt to hammer government & foster Alberta patriotism. No wonder Harper looks like he's hiding something very profound.


James
said

Harper has no more of an idea about what will cause a recession than the so-called financial experts on Bay or Wall Street. It is possible that the Green Shift will lead to an economic revival in Ontario as companies begin to create "green" jobs. Harper should stick to the facts; An economic downturn in Canada happened on his watch!!


D in NS
said

The Carbon Tax may be a good environmental move (although the environmental benefits seem unclear...). Unfortunately, it seems to be a very risky economic move... the income tax break is a paltry sum in comparison to the projected cost to citizens as a result of the Carbon Taxation.

That said, and considering the multitude of new projects the Liberals propose...Mr. Harper brings up a good point: Where will the money for the new programs come from? What will have to be cut?

Or, will we actually see a personal income break after all? ... when one puts their plans on paper there are only a few ways they can possibly pay for the new initiatives.

They must either keep the revenues from the Carbon Tax to fund new initiatives, cut other programs... or run a deficit.Which will it be?...

I fear that much of what is coming out of Mr. Dion's campaign is reactionary rather than being based on a sound economic plan for Canada.

Let us all consider this when casting our vote.


RC, Fredericton
said

If the price of diesel fuel goes up by say 5%, it is a whole lot more than simply adding 5% to the cost of transportation.

For those in the natural resources industries, the cost of their diesel to catch fish, mine minerals, cut wood, pump oil all goes up. Then add to that the extra 5% cost to process those things into useable commodities. Then add to that the extra cost to get these things to market.

It's a multiplier effect. And that is more than the original 5%

When the diesel fuel cost goes down, the reverse is true and the multiplier effect works in the favour of everyone...

Results speak for themselves.

Trust Harper to lower your taxes and allow you greater freedom to administer your own affairs and your money.


Over Taxed
said

I'm sick of hearing about climate change, fuel taxes and the environment when I am unable to find my family of five a family doctor, and can barely keep up paying the bills because our income taxes as a 'middle income' family are killing us! We pay WAY TOO MUCH TAXES. Federal Tax, Provincial Tax, taxes on fuel and everything we purchase, property tax, school tax. GIVE US A BREAK! Do I care about the environment when I am just wondering if at some point we'll have to sell the house in order to keep feeding our kids??


Wake Up People!!
said

Yeah Right!!!

If Canadian people turn down the green shift please do not stand on the world stage and try to preach to third world countries for reducing carbon footprints. Countries like India, Chin and Indonesia definitely agree with Harper about bypassing the wakeup call from mother Earth/Nature.



Rob, Vancouver
said

Enormous numbers of economists have studied the impact of a revenue neutral green shift, and the conclusion is uniformly that it will benefit, not hurt, the economy. Lowering income taxes encourages people to, well, earn more income and puts money in their pockets. In particular, the resulting increased investment in business leads to long term benefits.
When Harper, or for that matter any of them, makes completely incorrect statements, they need to be challenged. I would encourage your reporters to fact check the statements of all politicians, and present them as part of any article that quotes them.



Durward
said

Lowell and Marcell.
It's nice to say others are doing it but the reality is they are trying now to get away from it and do you know why?
It put them in reccession..England, Italy, Germany. England and Germany! In reccession. Europe's supposed economic engines! Due to envirofundamentalist carbon taxes.


David Cromwell
said

Steven Harper said the truth from his perspective with an oil rich province which would go into recession if the Liberal idea came true. If this unlikely event came true, then Alberta should be permitted to do everything within its means to be the equivalent of Ontario including nuclear power and better..


Rick
said

Dion's big gas guzzling plane proves the carbon tax will allow people to spew pollution and green house gases as much as they want as long as they are willing to pay a price in dollars.

Environmental Gains - 0


JOhn
said

Harper being in power is resulting in a recession.
Dion in power will shift our economy, to a green economy.


Ian
said

This is nothing more than a load of bunk. Harper is scared of Dion. That's why he continually attacks him. It has nothing to do with the Green Shift but more to do with his other plan which is to destroy all other political parties. The Green Shift is a good plan and Harper knows it. These are nothing but scare tactics because he dosen't have a plan of his own. He dosen't want to have to do anything to improve the enviroment. He doesn't even believe the enviroment is in trouble...

Paul
said

Just more Green House Gases coming from Harper's mouth.

Back tax on the users is the way to go. If you can afford to pollute, you can afford to contribute to the solution environmental energy conservation and reducing GHG's.


DGL
said

The big joke is that intelligent people actually believe that a carbon tax will reduce carbon emissions. It will not. If everyone in Canada went ultra-green tomorrow (stopped driving, cut out any wasteful energy expenditure, bought Birkenstocks, etc) it would not do a thing to reduce carbon emissions. Why? Because the rest of the world is still emitting tons of carbon. We do not live in a bubble people. If they are emitting carbon, it will effect us. I do not want the Gov't to tax me on carbon emission. That is not why I elected them.


Doug BC
said

Dion's carbon shaft is a shell game.It IS NOT even designed to reduce GHG's or other pollutants.It is soley to collect money to finance his socialist agenda.
"Robin the Hood" asks if we should leave the issue of gllobal warming to the next generation.Of course not.We should ALL be doing all we can to "clean up our act",so to speak.But paying more taxes will simply not do the job.
I would,though,ask "Robin the Hood",and millions of socialists in Canada,if they think we should pass on our massive national debt to the next generation.I,for one,do not think that's fair.
None of the issues vital to us today can be taken in isolation.Each issue impacts our ability to deal with other issues.If our economy fails,the next generation will be so busy paying off our debt,that they won't have the ability to improve social programs or utilize technology that makes energy consumption cleaner.
In case it hasn't been noticed,our biggest trading partner is facing huge economic challenges.God help us all if they can't sort them out.Mr.Harper seems to be the only one who has been consistent in recognizing how perilous our situation will be if we remain mired in debt and high taxes,at a time when we have no markets that can afford our exports.
The ECONOMY is the key that makes it possible to make headway on ALL other social issues.We ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT return to borrowing money from the next generation of Canadians.Debt enslaves us as effectively as any jail can.



DRH
said

To Jay:
Yes, europian countries have a carbon tax in place that is somewhat effective, however they also have rapid transit that you can cross there country in about six hours. Six hours on rapid transit in a forty below environment won't get you across a province. I'm sure the Liberals will make the cost of your "canapass" revenue neutral? You can't compare apples & oranges. Canada emits less than 2% of the worlds green house gasses and yet all you Liberals want the rest of us to provide 110% of the worlds environmental cures out of our pockets at the risk of destroying our economy. Please go back to sleep and wake up in say about fifty years.


Mel from Calgary
said

If Harper is looking at Ottawa as the enemy of the provinces then what are his plans to dismantle it if he continues as prime minister.

What this indicates is he has not changed his mind on Alberta building a "firewall" around the province only now he envisions it for each province.




TheOracle
said

news to Mr Harper...

"national unity" has always been tenuous in this country and preserving "national unity" should mean more than appeasing one region.

Bitter regional feelings are exacerbated by the tendency of many sucessive governments (including yours Mr Harper) to constantly pander to Quebec voters via extra money and consideration that the rest of Canada does not receive.

Western alienation is alive and well. Here in AB where I live many actually don't understand that if the Ontario economy fails the Canada's economy as a whole suffers, they foolishly rejoice when another manufacturing plant closes down.

They are so embittered they really think this province could be an "island" within Canada (this sentiment was more than encouraged by your own "firewall" proposal) and that somehow "the east" drags them down.

Oepn your eyes citizens, and realize that Canada is good idea. The various regions strengths compliment each others economies and offset each others weaknesses to create a well rounded diversity of endeavours.

Unfortunately, I can't recall any government or political party that has done anything in the last 30 yerars to drive this point home to Canadians.

This includes you Mr. Harper.. so don't be to full of yourself as a saviour of "national unity"




P.A.
said

Harper is right. And for those of you worried about global warming, there has not been a recorded increase in the global temperature for several years now, in fact the recent year shows a cooling trend. August was the first month in 100 years where scientists could not fine ONE sunspot, and that is a huge signal that things are going to cool down, even the Old Farmer's Almanac says we are headed into a long term cooling trend. Climate change is driven by the sun, not by us.


Al in Cranbrook
said

Wherever one looks in Europe, carbon taxes have been a disaster, cost tens of thousands of jobs, and done absolutely nothing to reduce CO2.

Definitely what we should bring to Canada, eh?

Yeah, you bet.




Jamie, Ottawa
said

The fact that they're throwing anything out there to see if it sticks makes me wonder if their internal polling shows the carbon tax idea starting to gain some traction.

Fracturing national unity? A carbon tax? Come on!

I find it insulting that Harper, an economist, doesn't offer a clear explanation on how he came to this conclusion about a recession. What does he mean by "undermine"?

Instead, he's trying to woo me through fearmongering. Sadly, I do think I lot of people get scared easily. So if I was him I'd probably use the same tactic.


brian hancox
said

Only gullible Canadians whould support the Liberal's Green Shift Plan. I am so tired of listening to the Grits announce plans and Canadians immediately answering yes or no.
We all need to give our heads a shake. Why? Gun control estimated cost - 5 million dollars. Gun control after the Liberal's bureaucracy - 5 billion dollars and counting. Green Shift Plan - 35 billion. Green Shift Plan after the LIberal bureaucracy is built - PRICELESS.
The same would happen with childcare. The cost of their bureaucracy they love to build would cost us all, as well as our children and their children. I am tired of Liberals always discovering new ways to wanting to get into my wallet.


Bob,Calgary
said

I'll tell you why there is so much negativity about the tax:

1. There is absolutely no proof that global warming,if it is happening, is man made.

2.India has already said it will not reduce emmissions and has even said it does not agree that global warming is man made.
China will continue to build coal fired power plants no matter what the world does.

3. Europe's success whether
it be carbon tax,regulation or cap and trade has been minimal.

4. Scientific studies have shown that the high cost of combatting emmissions could be better spent fighting other problems such as disease in poor countries, other pollution etc.,etc.

Methinks Canadians, in their usual aren't we proud of ourselves way, want to be seen to do something about CO2 but reaaly will only end up paying for another slug of
Liberal social porograms. When will Canadians learn that the Libs want money in order to spend on nebulous feel good programs that solve nothing but simply beggar the population.


Norm
said

Just an observation, but by just reading certain names, I can tell what they are going to write down. Instead of discussing the issues, it seems to become a pro Liberal and anti Harper rant. Let's leave the politics out of it people and discuss the facts and issues....shall we?


RS
said

As i have said before how can it be revenue nuetral and effective? If it does lower greenhouse gas emissions there won't be as much of it to tax, so either other taxes will have to be raised or there will be a shortfall in revenue. Am I wrong? What am I missing?


MB BARRY
said

You forgot the billions for government departments created to take our money and hand it out to someone else ! When you're figuring out who gets some "shifted" money, don't forget the liberal party and it's best friends. They're very needy right now.



Grenn Shift - how is it revenue neutral?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I have a middle class family in Ontario. The carbon tax: 15 billion in added taxes and 15 billion back. So it's revenue neutral for government. But wait. He has a few billion to help those industries that are unhappy with the new tax (fishers/truckers). He has a few billion for new green innovation. He has a few billion to give to the poor to ofset higher prices for fuel(home heating and electricity). So I count 6-7 billion going to special groups, poor, business and innovation. So for every dollar he collects from me he has aleady spend 40-50 cents. So the Green Shift will not be revenue neutral to me. it will be yet another program to shift wealth to the poor and big business. Am I wrong?


Antani
said

I think people need to think how a society works from the early days and changes today. None of the governments are revenue neutral as for everyone. The Program must be considered as by group. A few examples are: Healthcare costs, employment insurance are not shared equally for every Canadians. Quebeckers gets more than Ontarians. National defense Cost: Well, it is also not charged based on the populations and the area. Also, as a young man, I went to see the doctor only 2 times in the last 5 Years, and I paid more than 100K in taxes in the last five years. So, the government isn’t neutral for me. Even the Conservative plan is not and they can not give me an equal share for sure. So, we need to look at the plan as a group. I am not agreeing with the liberals plans 100%. But compare with the Conservatives financial policy, their plan is better. Con, does not have a solid proven plan for this week economy. It is widely proven that reducing taxes will not shape the economy. The current economy needs a direct investment and low taxes. Reduced taxes will not do anything in consumer spending because they even don’t have an income to spend.


Tim
said

Climate change has to dealt with sooner or later.

The sooner it's dealt with the less it will cost to fix.

Harper's plan is not realistic. He has to do better than simply criticize the Green Shift plan.


JYS
said

its basic macroeconomics. Tax during a time when the economy isn't very strong is a bad thing. Dion doesn't seem to get it. Why elect a guy who doesn't even know some as basic as that? Dion's goal to help the enviroment is admirable, but his methods are bad


As the Scribe sees it
said

I agree completely with Stephen Harper. Canada, i.e. - the taxpayers, of course, simply cannot afford the Greenshift Tax. We can believe Stephan Dion's claim that it will be "revenue-neutral" just about as much as Jean Chretien's promise that he would "axe the tax" (the GST) which of course he never did. And Dion's claim that he would double the child benefits for families with children does absolutely nothing for couples without children,- in a lot of cases because they cannot afford it due to the turbulent economy and uncertain future. It also does nothing for people whose children are no longer in school; nothing for single people; and nothing for seniors. And yet,despite the fact that EVERYBODY who has to buy ANYTHING is still going to be taxed to the hilt, Dion blasts Harper for wanting to cut excise tax on diesel fuel which at least offers a chance that prices of most things will drop. Some relief is better than none, but the sad fact remains that nobody's proposed solution to any problem is ever going to be perfect. Personally, I hope Harper gets a majority,- but still, no matter who wins the election, Conservative or Liberal,about half of us are not going to be happy. At times like this, I wish we were a little more like the United States insofar as party leaders having to campaign to win the votes of the people instead of being chosen by the parties themselves. Then we might not have Harper, Dion, Layton, etc. If we had referendums on national and provincial issues,- we likely would never have gone Metric. Besides the cost, it failed...because years later, we still buy wood as "2 x 4's" and "4 x 8" sheets.


Davey boy
said

Green Shift Taxes sounds like another GST. I thought the Liberals wanted to get rid of the GST now they want 2 GST's. What the?


Jack in BC
said

I have to agree with Jack's comments. People have already changed their behaviour due to the high cost of fuel...a carbon tax isn't going to make use do anymore, if we have no alternative. Look at us in BC, do you think that 2.4cents more on $1.40/L made people give up their big trucks?
My biggest problem is all the indirect increases. Sure maybe the tax break will cover the direct cost of natural gas increases etc. But as it has been pointed out, transporation costs going up means that pretty much everything you buy (unless you shop exclusively at your local fruit stand & try that in the Canadian winter) will go up in price. Thus, this tax cannot be revenue neutral. It isn't taxing pollutors if it ends up taxing my food - I've got to eat!


Po
said

Sorry Harper but the Liberals have a MUCH BETTER track record of getting this country out of recessions when compared to conservatives. You've already put this country on the brink with absolutely no money to pay down the debt (but tax-cut lovers who probably can't even manage their own finances don't care about paying down debt or leaving it to their kids).

I have yet to see a significant impact of the 2% GST drop to my finances (and I've bought big-ticket items). Oh and I don't drive a Diesel powered car, so that doesn't help me. I did have some Income Trusts, but we all know what you did to those.

Harper once said that the biggest kind of fraud was not keeping one's promises... well Mr. Harper, you've managed to make yourself into quite a bit of a fraud in the last couple of years.


Max in Mississauga
said

Harper's claims are getting more and more bizarre as he becomes more and more desperate. Now Harper claims that the carbon tax will destroy confederation. What's next? Will Dion turn into a reptile and eat all of our kittens?

Start re-writing your resume Mr. Harper, your day's are numbered.


Ed Samson
said

Ed From NL
Mr. Harper and his “reform” government already has our country tittering on the edge of a deficit. If the truth were known a deficit is probably closer to the reality. But I suspect that we won’t know the truth of that for a few months yet. I’m 61 years old and have always had a keen interest in politics and followed all elections closely. I have never been scared of any of the party leaders in any previous elections. But, frankly, Mr. Harper scares the S**T out of me. I lived in Alberta for a number of years during the Ralph Cline government. (Ya Ralph Bucks – now there’s my kind of Conserative) Although I consider myself a Liberal (rather lonely one in Alberta) I had a lot of time for Premier Cline, a decent down to earth person. But Mr. Harper is a different quintal of fish. Like Danny Williams here in NL, Mr. Harper is hungry for power. Here in NL he have made the mistake of giving Danny to much power, we have made him King. Let’s not make the same mistake on the national level. I have a theory that Danny and Stevie are a little bit alike in SOME respects and that is why they are often locking horns.
I would be comfortable with a minority government of any flavor.
You can bet that “Green” is going to cost us no matter which party is elected. Not that I have a great problem with that. And I’m not rich; in fact I am living solely on my 28 ½ CF Pension. WE have used and abused this planet, and continue to do so – but at some point we have to take responsibility for our part in the devastation of God’s creation.




Acroyear
said

To Jay: "In fact the European countries that brought in a carbon tax have had a huge boost to their econonmy."

Really? I work in an international industry and if you ask most Germans they'd say it crippled their economy, especially following the reunificaiton of Germany when that part had to start making the targets. Caron tax caused a massive recession. (Note, Germany started this waaaay back in the 70's)

Having said that, I'm not a NeoCon (I hate when they are called Tories) but Dion's plan will not work. It sets no goals, it only expects that market pressure caused by increased costs will make people go greener. I've yet to say any Canadian government in my 43 years every predict the markets correctly. Ever.

Incentives/financial assistance to go Green, paid for my punishments for those who don't. The fines you could levee on the paper industry alone would probably buy the Navy a couple of ships.

This would also give competitive pressures...if one steel mill (for example) would be given big tax break for cleaning up, and one had huge fine, then the greener one could lower its prices while the other would either loose money or raise it's prices...and then loose money.

Even privately. For example, I own a 78 Monaco I only drive in the summer. I love the car, but you know what, maybe I SHOULD have to pay more for the priviledge to drive the big V8.

You need to have both carrot and stick, not just the stick. And you need to punish those who actually violate, not everyone because "they just won't listen and go green"

I have no idea who to vote for, I hate the NeoCons (they are NOT the Tories) but I just can't support Dion's plan.


Carl Q
said

Tips for cons:

1) Thinking inovles thinking THROUGH. A good short-term strategy might not take care of your long-term interests.

2) Legislation is not good if it will not withstand the test of time. Ask yourself: "Will this new law survive a decade? ...a century? Is my aim really to CAUSE INSTABILITY by investing a LOT of energy in things that won't survive?"

3) Smashing & fracturing our society, our environment, & our esteemed institutions will achieve the following: Alberta separation ...so is that what you are really up to?? ...cleaving the oil giant off of Canada (maybe for the USA?)? That's what it looks like to me: A stunt to hammer government & foster Alberta patriotism. No wonder Harper looks like he's hiding something very profound.

I'm growing very concerned that we need to invest more in education in Canada. An "advanced" society can aspire to be more civilized.


Nfld in Ont
said

I have to admit, I like the Harper approach to the economy.
Dion’s comparison of Canada’s growth to the U.S. is like comparing chalk to cheese.

The American’s may seem to have more growth but remember, they are running a deficit of over $400 billion for 2008 and projected to be over $500 billion in 2009. That’s approximately 3% of the U.S. economy; so claiming 1% growth in America is a bit of a stretch.

Harper has maintained economic growth (albeit small) in the face of a world economic turndown while maintaining a budget surplus (one month in the red does not constitute running a budget deficit). These may not be the multi-billion dollar surpluses of the Liberals but that’s mostly because he’s lowered the GST and other income/business taxes and left more of my money in my pocket.

I hate to think how bad the economy would be if Dion were in power.
And what this $8.4 billion promise by Layton??
Better the devil you know!



Buy a new Car
said

I think it is pretty obvious by now that the carbon tax has nothing to do with reducing greenhouse gases. Overall, the tax base will increase.

In North America, are cars not the number one source of greenhouse gases? Is Dion going to add a carbon tax to every new car being sold? What would that do to the economy of Ontario? How many seats would he risk in the Commons?

This carbon tax has the potential to be a disaster.


Gord
said

There's a fundemantal difference here. Some of us do the right thing for the environment every day. We don't need a tax and we don't need more bureaucracy to be "green".

This green shaft will have an impact on the economy and this is not the time for such an experiment. Don't compare us to Europeans Canada is far larger. Everything gets shipped and that alone will increases the price of everything.

Dion points a finger at Harper for the down turn in the Economy. Did Harper cause a surge in oil prices? No. Did Harper cause the mortgage crisis in the US? No. As if any government could have stopped the down turn in the global economy. What a joker, it's more scare tactics... If Dion would have been PM and implimented his scheme we would be in crisis. We will be in crisis if he gets elected.

China, India and Russia must be part of the solution. But its not an excuse to do nothing. I live green and don't need or want the government to regulate or tax me.

To all liberals: stop waiting for the government to solve your problems. Get your heads out of your asses and vote for Harper.


All for the Liberals
said

"Even Statistics Canada admits that the struggling U.S. economy is outperforming Canada's economy. Statistics Canada reported yesterday that Canada's labour productivity has fallen for nine months straight. This is Canada's worst performance since 1990 - since Brian Mulroney." - Gee I guess Harper is doing it right, for him. Lets face facts, how many people actually buy diesal? Yes trcukers use it and farmers, but they will not pass any savings on to us. At least Dion is going to invest in the production of alternative fuels and modes of transport. Harper just wants to give tax breaks to his buddies and destroy the econamy. Sounds very much like what Mulroney pitched when he was running for PM the first time, and look what happen after we got rid of him?


Greg in the Hammer
said

The social theory/economic experts here astound me. IT HAS NEVER BEEN TAXATION THAT HAS SPURRED INNOVATION AND TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT.

It has always been market forces and demand driven by social mores and trends.

Taxing virtually everything Canadians use or need will only serve to turn this country into an economic wasteland.

Those of you touting the "successful" models being used in europe need to do some homework. Whether carbon tax or cap and trade, every single system in use has actually become a failure. Just because they haven't gone back doesn't mean it works. The EUs system has resulted in huge increases in transportation and utility costs forcing most nation to have to subsidize utilities which in turn has led to more taxation. In the UK same thing. Mortgage foreclosures are at an all time high because people can't afford to heat or run their homes. NONE OF THESE SYSTEMS HAS RESULTED IN ANY EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS.

Sure bring it on. Bankrupt us all.

NOT.


H Flashman
said

If we apply a core analysis, and for a moment suspend discussion of the possible implications of a Carbon tax, there is something far more telling about this carbox tax debate in itself.
A strategy to anchor a parties election platform on such a vaguely defined notion as a "revenue neutral" carbon tax, illustrates a party who has failed in the strategic process: no clear statement of value, premises completely vague, and now put in a position to defend the strawman of their own creation. If you can't implement and execute a campaign strategy, how can you execute the stategic management of government?
I would suggest that the Liberal powers have not assumed their parental responsibilities in keeping their little Dion from touching the burner. . . and so the Rae and Ignatief teams can now say, I told you so, but don't worry we'll make it better.
There's your debate.


Jorja
said

I don't think Canadians are scared of the carbon tax, I think they're smart enough to see it for what it is, a huge tax grab that won't do anything at all for the environment. Carbon taxes have been tried in other countries, Denmark for example, and the result was slightly lower emmissions, a massive increase in the cost of electricity, and a 25% drop in manufacturing jobs. Is this the result we want in Canada? Canada needs to develop energy alternatives so people have something to switch to. Right now a lot of people have no choices, and hitting them with a huge increase in the cost of driving to work, heating their homes, or buying their food isn't the answer. Personally I think we need to cut down on pollution, recycle, build better cars, etc, but the whole global warming thing is a tax-grabbing scam. Al Gore is a hypocrit who tells us to cut down, and lives in a huge energy guzzling house, and whose movie isn't based on scientific facts. There are more well-respected scientists worldwide who disagree with global warming than those who support it, but there's money to be made in supporting it. There is lots of information on global warming at "taxpayer.com" as well as other websites.


Wendy in Montreal
said

For the first time in many many years I got a significant amount back on my taxes. Wow! The country is better off than ever and we only need to look to our neighbours to see we have a prime minister that understands the economy and leads as an example. Let's take a look at Larry ( Jack Layton) Only yesterday he relented and said ok the green party can join us on the platform but first he said no. Whichy washy don't you think need I say more. Then let's look at Curly ( Duceppe ) Remember when the parti quebecois asked him to head the party and he declined. Of course he would by golly, he'd have to work for a change. Better to stay in federal politics and belly ache and do nothing but gain a nice pension for just for filling the chair lol. Then there's Moe ( Dion) he was understandably upset when Prime Minister Harper called the election poor boy. Lost in space that one and a carbon tax indeed. Dion you finance the tax yourself until China stops polluting the earth and North Korea stops testing nuclear missles and so on.... That carbon tax will do absolutely nothing except fill the liberal coffers and remember the sponsorship scandal. I will never forget!
I say let's be happy we are finally calm here in Canada sure we have problems but in comparison to the U.S. we're at least getting to enjoy our lives more than ever and I commend Prime Minister Harper and I say keep up the good work and God Bless Canadians and our prime minister.




brian
said

Harper says the carbon tax will drive us into recession??? I think the Conservatives have already accomplished this without the carbon tax.


SS in Vancouver
said

The real question about all of this is their actually human desire to reduce the use of fossil fuels (which are not sustaining and we all know it) and move towards an electric based economy (plug-in vehicles, clean coal power plants or natual gas in the interm and a real push for FUSION POWER. - Nuclear is available but still has problems including about 10-15 years before operational to not mention the cleanup). The need to retro-fit old dwellings because it will take a numerous effort build new housing in the interim.
No one needs high horsepower SUV, trucks car etc unless you are hauling something at ACTUALLY NEEDS IT. The NA manufacturers built primarily these vehicles because people still wanted them not because they needed them. It the car culture that you see in TV ads that do not enough come close to real life. If you are in the bush (I use to live there - it was somewhat of a necessity but not always). Better battery capacity and other efficiency help..
If you do not, and I know we will, we will have to deal it. The C02 content during the prehistoric age was much higher than today and it produced a growing ability of plants that is much improved than today but produced less protein for a give amount today. So we will need to eat more to get the same amopunt of nutrition. Whether the animals can adapt is a question but it all come to this? What do we want to do? We will survive as a species but with a lot less (the overpopulation and energy/wealth distribution is the real cause of pollution/environment damage that we have today


Trent
said

Those who compare any successes relized by Europe through a carbon tax must do themselves a favour and get out a atlas or globe and look at Europe and then look at Canada. There are many differences geographically and environmentally and what works for one won't work for the other. Then look at the transportation systems between the two and realize there are vast differences there, we are dependant upon diesel for transportation accross our vast country while they are primarily using electric trains to transport goods over small distances. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges.
I hope and pray that those who support the Green Shift further research and do some critical thinking on the issue and realize this will only become another burden on Canadians in this difficult time.
I think one strategy that could actually result in some changes is to increase government grants to those individuals or corporations who voluntarily improve their carbon footprint in their everyday life. Look at the governments Ecorebates incentives and it shows they truely do not care or want Canadians to try and reduce their dependance on fossil fuels, to achieve the maximum one time allowance of $5,000.00 I am looking at an incrimental renovation cost of $60,000 - $70,000. This will take approximately 20 years to realize any benefit from this, to me it is a bad investment.


jmrSudbury
said

To be able to develop alternative sources of energy, we need to have a strong economy.

Climate change should be averaged over 60 years if not 120 years or more. Using only 30 years does not remove oceanic oscillation noise. TSI accounted for 41% of the 1930 to 1990 background warming. Instead of wasting time on CO2, we should fight real pollution and keep our economy as strong as possible.

John M Reynolds


GC
said

This isn't about politics - its about economics. I doubt any of you "idealists" are ready to drastically reduce your standard of living in support of this carbon tax. We need to migrate to alternative fuels, not shut the tap off!!!



Concerned
said

To all the people that think that the carbon tax and carbon credit plan in Europe is working wonders should do a little research. There are lots of companies in Europe that can no longer afford the price of the credits, that they are forced to buy from Russia, and are looking into moving there companies into the Ukraine and Russia.

Having said this, however, we still need an enviromental plan that fits Canada. European countries are tiny compared to Canada and there high price of fuel does not hurt them as much as it would hurt us.
We need a plan that is creative and thoughtful for all our needs. A simple tax will not stop people from doing the things that they like. (Heating your house). It will create huge revenue for the govt that will be allocated to more social spending like daycare, healthcare etc. There will be no money left for them to research alternatives if they are going to make it neutral.

The large corporations, when hit with raising costs, will always pass those costs to consumers. They have no incentive to lower there emissions because it will never effect there bottom line.

The 4 big parties,( I added the greens and removed the Bloc) have to put there partisianship aside and come up with a comprehensive plan.
Our future is at stake as well as the planets. We as voters have to demand that the different parties work together on this. If not, we will have 1) No plan as put forth by the Conservatives. 2)Huge cost increases that will destroy the middle class as proposed bt the Liberals. 3) Carbon capture and trading for corporations that will drive the already fragile manufacturing secture from Ont to Mexico as proposed by the NPD.


RobO
said

TAXES - as always is the problem. To help solve this problem and show the government in power (who wins the election)just don't pay you tax at the end of the year and watch how the government tries to get it's money. People wake up, we voted these people in to look after our needs. It they can't then we must re-sovle the issue ourselves. So bring on the GREEN SHAFT = Not paying income tax at the end of the year. It's the only way to show your destain for the sytem.


Mike - NWO
said

I am SICK of hearing about climate change. Do any of you ever step back and consider if we can stop climate change or even if we should? There is not near enough evidence out there to suggest that humans are dramatically affecting the world's climate.

I am not arguing that the earth's tempature is climbing. That is proven, but, hownestly, I believe it is natural, not human caused. I'm not going to go into depth here about why I think that, but the evidence is there.

The fact of the matter is that everyone seems to need a "crisis" to deal with.. remember Y2K? How did that turn out?

The Liberals want to sacrifice our economy and my money to try to solve a problem that I believe does not exist. And there is no way that the plan will be revenue neutral on a person to person basis. Even the stout Liberal supporters must see this.

But if you are ademant on trying to change the climate and risk our way of living, go ahead, drink the Kool-Aid and vote Liberal.


John G (aka I'm just going to pass on this vote)
said

I don't really care who wins this election, because the politicians we have now are all alike. They distort the other parties platforms to serve their narrow focus "to get elected". None of them give a hoot for this great nation of ours, however, we always find a way to muddle through inspite of them. For Mr. Harper to say that the Liberal Environmental plan will lead to recession and is only a cash grab is blantly incorrect. I am not completely warm and fuzzy with the liberal plan, but I have read it and tried to determine, not how much it will save or cost me but is it the right policy for Canada. I feel it does go a long way in attempting to balance the needs of the environment and the needs of the economy. Far from perfect at least it's moving in the right direct and I'm sure if elected you will see that the liberals will have to tweek their plan. But no mistake it appears to be well thought out even if it's a tough sell. This is not to say I endorse any party because as I said early I don't give a hoot anymore. We are headed for a recession regardless who is in power.


Brian
said

Supporters of this program say we need to change our ways, for many that would be no holidays, no cottage, no boats or snowmobiles, etc. I don't believe Canadians are prepared to do this.
Better to make industry and consumer products more energy efficient as well as continue technology into cleaner energy sources, like electricity for instance.
People talk about less cars on the road but if they were all emmisions free it would not matter.
A carbon tax will simply kill the economy and our way of life, there are better alternatives.
Canada should embark on the next great national program, an east-west power grid and then continue to develope the use of this clean energy.
Energy independance and a cleaner world are at our fingertips, we need only the will.
The Conservatives have supported this endeaver but we can do more, ecourage everybody to improve but without taking away the life we love.


Marion Moraga
said

Aren't we nearing the recession already Mr. Harper.
Why such a rush to have the election so soon?
Because you know that the recession is almost here.
I really feel insulted when you think that the people of this country is stupid.
We working class people have been feeling the crunch in te economy for some time already. Why try to blame the Liberals for something that is happenning right at this moment.


Jake
said

You know there was a time when Canary birds were regularly used in coal mining as an early warning system. Toxins from the activities of our dredging the earth would kill the bird before it affected the workers. This was so affective that it was used up until 1987 and saved many lives…

1000 plus birds dead at Syncrude’s toxic tailing ponds in Northern Alberta (May 2nd, 2008)

500 plus birds dead in southwest corner of CFB Suffield, in south-eastern Alberta (Sept 9th, 2008)

Two headed fish Lake Athabasca, Alberta (Aug 19th, 2008)

You can ignore the birds, but I’m certain that the producers of the oil and the profiteers wont be fishing northern Alberta, maybe not even southern Alberta’s waters anytime soon, they’ll go somewhere where the birds aren’t dropping dead day after day…

THE WARNING IS CLEAR! DON’T IGNORE THE CANARY!!!

Demand more!

VOTE ABC!!!


Cheng
said

Harper warns about Dion's plan will bring recession? Listen who is talking - our economy is almost in recession under Harper, who is very good to point fingers to blame others. No Harper!


Poor Farmer in MB
said

As someone who has studied Geography as well as weather and climate, after hearing all these people (David Suzuki with his wonderful Bachelor of Arts and a PhD in zoology...info from a repected website) who brag about how good this Carbon Tax is, I have this question: Where is the Plan to actually reduce pollution??? All I see is talk of creating this so-called "green economy"...what I want to know is what programs there are associated with this plan, or this a case of writing something on a paper napkin on the fly while resorting to taxes, taxes, and more taxes.

Voters have a choice between more taxes vs small taxes, and I know where everyone would go, cause the Liberal income tax saving for me personally amounts to a pitiful $350 a year. If the tax saving was $1200 a year maybe I'd consider it.


Gail (Hamilton)
said

Some people can't handle the truth. The environment and the economy go hand-in-hand. It's time for Canadians to stand up for a free economy to encourage prosperity, rather than more taxes making us slaves to the government.


don lekei
said

We have a so-called Carbon Tax here in BC and it is a bogus and ill-conceived plan. Since it penalizes everyone, regardless of whether they work to reduce greenhouse gas and other environmental waste, it provides zero incentive for change.

Tax waste only, and that will be incentive for change. Tax garbage, to increase incentives to recycle. Tax clam-shell packaging, to cut the millions of litres of fuel wasted trucking and shipping air around the world (and plastics in our landfills).

Tax packaging - for every box-inside-of-a-box fine manufacturers.

Have different taxes for containers/trucks based on zone - 100mile - no tax, 5000 mile heavy tax.

If you are going to tax fuel, then provide tax relief on alternate fuels. In BC the carbon tax applies equally to Gasoline and Ethanol-blended fuels. No incentive.

Require permits to drive vehicles with less than 9L/100km fuel economy. Allow small, fuel-efficient cars to use express lanes with less passengers.


Wayne - Calgary
said

No carbon tax! More taxes will do more harm then good. Emission caps are a must! We need to think about our future world and environment or maybe in 20 years we wont have one. What will happen to our children and their children if we continue going down this continued path of pollution?
The government already makes enough money in taxes and the people? (i.e student loan - interest? where does that go to?


Dd
said

Harper is one to talk. We just missed recession numbers in the second quarter.

That is why he called the election. He didn't want to fight an election in a recession.

As for the carbon tax, Canadians have always said they were willing to pay to fight climate change. Well, here it is (insofar as you may or may not pay depending on how the tax is restructured). Time for Canadians to put their money where their mouths are.

If we don't start now, it'll be a lot more painful later!!!!


Kurt
said

To all you liberal supporters of this green shift plan, can you answer a few questions:

1) What percentage will this plan reduce emissions?

2) Why is the carbon tax being collected being used to fund new social programs? Is this really an environmental plan or just a tax reformation plan?

For example, a middle income family that earns 50000, with 2 kids, will get $827 dollars back to offset the increase of energy, food, clothing, etc.

A low income family of 15000 with 2 kids will receive $2224 to offset these costs.

Is it logical that this low income family will be using 3x the amount of energy that a middle income family will? Logically, the middle income earner will likely be using MORE energy. Why wouldn't they be getting more of his money back?

(This is data publishing in the green shift book)

This plan CLEARLY takes money out of the middle income earners pockets and funds NEW social programs (see tax increases) for lower income families.

I would support shifting to consumption from income paradigm if this inequality didn't exist. Also, weird idea for an ENVIRONMENTAL program, why not use the new tax increases being used to help fight poverty to fund new technologies, tax credits for efficient windows, cars, etc. Only 600 million out of 15 billion is set aside to fund new green technologies. There is more than 4 BILLION being used to fund this wealth redistribution scheme.

This is why I do not support this plan. It has no CLEAR emission reduction target and it takes my money and gives it to low income families. It's merely a wealth redistribution tax grab.


Ki-Som Victoria BC
said

Sorry, Mr. Harper, what YOUR government has done has broughten us closer to a recession. You are just passing the blame. I hope you do form the next government, then you can deal with the mess when we finally do fall into a recession, thanks to your policies.


Vic
said

I heard a report the Liberal's are buying carbon credits to offset their aircraft's emissions to the tune of $34,000 so far.
The funds were given thru a company to some institution. A great idea but what I dont get is: the plane still made the emissions! Planting trees is the only way to offset. Then again you would probably need the area of the Sahara and the only way to fight global warming is to cut all emissions worldwide - all of them.
Not 1990 emissions, try 1590. Have to get off of fossil fuels fast, period. It is the only hope for the environment. I like the Zenn car idea. - Clean air.


Meg
said

A recession is going to come regardless of who is running the country...if it's not already here.


Steve Daly, Mississauga
said

Dion opposed a Carbon Tax right up to the moment that he realized that Conservative tax cuts meant there was no money in the federal coffer to spend on typical Liberal schemes.

Suddenly, Dion supports a massive new tax... for the 'environment'.

Think about it, if the Green Shaft was really about the environment then wouldn't Dion have left out the whole part about new spending? Face it, this is just tax and spend all over again.

The whole thing is a shell game, a massive confidence game perpetrated on the Canadian people by a man (Dion) who thinks the Canadian public is too stupid to see through it.


Andre
said

I find all the comments here that say "at least the Liberals are doing something" absolutely comical! In these people's mind, it is better to do something that has been proven by economist as most likely disastrous rather than doing nothing. Great logic! These are the same people who believe that this is going to be revenue neutral, although Dion has already promised over $6B of that "neutral" tax to special interest groups and Liberal-friendly lobbyists. So if the tax is neutral and Dion has just increased spending by $6B, doesn't it mean that he will have to tax us an additional $6B somewhere else to fund his new slush fund?
Wake up people. The Green shaft is yet another Fiberal boondoggle right up there with the gun registry and the cancellation of the helicopter contracts.
Canada cannot afford another minute of Liberal mismanagement.


Dave
said

Green Shaft is BAD for many reason's one being you tax gas/diesel then all this will go up with it.

-Food
-Gas
-Diesel
-Electricity
-Cost of living in general and will hurt every single Canadian everyday. For what ?

Maybe 200 to 300 dollars in saving's at end of year. I'm sorry i pay more in a month for all the important stuff and don't want to give government/Dion/liberals any more of my money. I will be voting Conservative again this year after all When Paul Martin had his government i got 300dollars back at tax time. then Harper took over i earned more during the year then i earned with martin as PM and i got 1700back. My Taxes went down, which meant more money for me to spend.


People who vote for more tax will disenfranchise and cause unity problems with everyone except Big Cities where they have good public transportation. I'm sorry that I'm forced to Drive cause i don't live in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and have a good public transportation.


Malcolm Seath, Don Mills, ON
said

Even if we take the Liberals at their word that they can make this revenue neutral this still represents a huge shift in the tax burden. First: those who don't pay income tax will certainly have to pay Carbon Tax. Second: The farmers, fishers and truckers have already been promissed special consideration so all the others will end up, in aggregate, paying more. Finally, some provinces are far more efficient energy users - they have a surplus of hydro - and will end up paying less while folks who live in the other provinces pay far more.


Edmonton John
said

There is a lot of hysteria here, and Harper is encouraging it.

The Green Shift doesn't involve a lot of money for individuals, so nobody is going to go broke.

Most are going to break even, and many stand to gain.

About the subject of taxation, you are not giving money to the government for them to keep, as many of you, including Harper, seem to suggest. It is senseless to say that a goverment collects taxes for its own sake. That may have been true in medieval monarchies but is a preposterous suggestion in this day and age.

Suffice it to say that you want to keep all your money for yourself. No shame in that.

But consider going to a stadium to enjoy a spectacle. If you want a good seat, you have to pay a premium. That's like a tax on your choice of seat.

Well, here the stadium is the world, and the spectacle is life and we have the best seats in the place, so don't you think you can dig a little deeper and quit whining for a change? Think about third world countries where they have no infrastructure or government, or education or healthcare. Is that what you would prefer?

They're up in the nosebleeds. If you don't want to pay taxes to live in the best country in the world, then head on up and join the other 90% of the world's population. You should feel privileged to pay your taxes in a nation as great as Canada.


Colleen
said

People...wake up! It is not proven (or even realistic) that humans are creating global warming. The amount we are actually adding to is is infinitessimal. This is all fear mongering by governments to keep us all in control. Don't buy into it!
That being said, I do believe we should do what we can to keep the planet as clean as possible - but not at the expense of our economy.


rob
said

Has the majority attempted to understand what the carbon tax is? It is user pays. Look at the big oil industries using up a huge percentage of the water supply in alberta and pay little for it, under this carbon tax, they should pay. Those driving SUVs without a family should pay for leaving a bigger carbon print. It is a very logical setup and part of our tax system already utilizes a user pay system. Why not make it the standard. We as people will think twice about being wasteful and leave our children and grandchildren a healthier country!


Mimi
said

I am sick and tired of listening to the anti carbon tax foul crying. If you do not want to pay more taxes, sell the useless SUV, get a reasonable vehicle for your needs, and you will pay less tax. That is the all idea behind the carbon tax.

The $100 check that we all received will cover the carbon tax for my vehicle (4-seat sedan) for the next five years. I drive a comfortable mileage-reasonable vehicle.


jane
said

Conservative supporters don't seem to get it - soon their worries about taxation will be non-existen compared to the climate-related issues we'll fact. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
And it's a little early in the campaign to bring the national unity horror show out of the hat, isn't it?!


bd in sk
said

I would encourage everyone posting re: the green shift plan to actually read it, and then maybe the next day, read the turning the corner plan on the environment canada web-site. This is the conservative plan. I am surprised Mr. Harper does not mention it. In my uunderstanding, the GS plan hopes to get industry on board to make changes by taxing them and through income tax initiatives to redistribute wealth. The TTC plan, in contrast, sets targets for GHG emmissions and provides industry with 5-6 different ways to accomplish meeting those targets. To me, the TTC plan is more focussed on the GHG question, with targets set in place for actual reduction, and was done in consultation with industry. The TTC plan is a technical read, but well worth the time, so you can at least have some idea of what you are posting about. The GC plan is less technical and will really open your eyes to what it is all about. Do your homework, posters!


Matt in Ottawa
said

You know what I love, the term "Green Economy"... What the heck is a Green Economy??? Nobody knew anything about it a few short years ago. Now apparently its the way of the future and according to the Libs the only way to save my great great great great grand kids, kids. Buzz words, spin and BS is all it is.

Lets face it, far more thought and consideration needs to take place before intoroducing something like a green shift. Its not an election platform.

To all those who blame Harper for a recession, welcome to something called a global economy. We are not insulated from things that happen else where, IE the USA. So before you place blame solely on Harper, get a clue.

Personally I think all these politicians are usless and not one of them is a leader in any sense of the word. Its depressing to see the state of our democracy.


David Ben Mark (Kitchener)
said

Harpers claim is simply rediculous. The Green Plan is not a Liberal tax grab,as he insinuates, nor will it cause disunity or a serious recession. Rather, it is a serious and workable solution to an environmental crisis that will surely get worse if left to the conservatives to be ignored or "managed", as Harper likes to say. Harper is solely responsible for the economic downturn happening in Canada today. He did afterall "manage" the economy into the state we find it in now.


Tony
said

HELLO we are in a Recession right now!!

Market dropped over 1,000 points in a week and house prices are dropping still.




Dave of the borderlands
said

A Carbon tax won't bring a recession. Conservative governments do. Who was in power when the great depression hit. A Conservative government. Who was in power in the mid eighties when a recession hit. A conservative government. Whose in power in the USA right now when they're in recession. A Conservative government. Whose in power now when a recession is hitting Quebec and Ontario. A Conservative government. Just think about it.


Robert
said

How will the Tory and NDP plans stop the big emitters from passing on the cost to the consumer? Can someone answer that question?


Faramir
said

Anyone hear ever read Ayn Rand. If McCain ever implemented a cap and trade system in the US as he suggested that would be the end of the US economy. Think Atlas Shrugged. Dion's plan would turn Canada into a ghost town.

No thanks


Matt in Ottawa
said

have any of you even read the green shift?
I am assuming the answer to that is NO. The imfamous carbon tax Harper is saying will cost an election will show on your bills just as mush as his lame 1% GST cut does.
Read the policies / the plans and then make a judgement, The conservatives are creepy people with a hidden motive and agenda. Ask yourself if you want them in power! The last time we had a conservative majority the country we into debt, and a deep recession. Ontario elected a conservative gov't and hundreds of nurses were laid off by shirnking the public service, Think twice Canada. THINK TWICE BEFORE VOTING BLUE.


Donald in Ottawa
said

Thanks to 'facts the tree huggers didn't tell you'. We have invented another crisis (remember Y2K) and created an industry out of it. It has wound so deeply into people's collective thinking that even a practical politician has to go along with it to a certain degree or have no hope of holding public office. Pollution is a problem that needs to be addressed. Supplies of non-renewable resources is a problem that needs to be addressed. GHG problems causing global warming is a discredited theory that is being exploited by the extreme left.

Some day we will wake up and realize that we spent billions on an invented crisis and didn't spend our limited resources are solving the real problems of our time.

There - I guess that makes me a 'climate change denyer or is it denier?'.


Diane VanHerk, Stewiacke, N.S
said

Lets remember how much the cost of the gun registry was suppose to be, and then think again of this Green Shift being revenue neutral.
The liberals wouldn't know how to run a program without out of control costs.


Roedy Green, Victoria BC
said

Harper is the master of the straw man argument. Instead of attacking Dion's actual carbon plan he makes up his own phony one to ridicule. Harper claims the only purpose of a carbon tax is to grab reveune. That would be true if it were Harper institituting the tax. He does not understand the urgency of acting on global climate change.

“Humanity is conducting an unintended, uncontrolled, globally pervasive experiment whose ultimate consequences could be second only to global nuclear war.”
~ Environment Canada


CRA retiree
said

Before anyone accepts that Dion's carbon tax will be revenue neutral to individuals, i.e., 100% returned directly to citizens through income tax deductions, they should ask how the implementation and ongoing administration of the Green Shift plan will be funded in the impacted federal departments. What is the incremental funding that will be needed by CRA to implement, collect and maintain the new program? What about the tax computer application systems that need to be modified, call center agents who will have to be trained to answer questions, the probable slew of documents that will have to be designed, printed, warehoused, shipped etc, in both official languages, to support the new program? Similar questions have to asked about incremental costs for the Auditor General who Dion says will audit the program; Justice, Treasury Board and Finance may also be impacted and require additional funding. Do the Liberals intend to tell all impacted departments that they must cover the implementation and ongoing costs out of their current budgets (aka "vote")? If so, what program cuts is Dion planning for the departments so that their staff, consultants etc can be redirected to his carbon tax. If the program is not covered from existing departmental votes, how much has Dion calculated will be needed to BOTH implement and maintain the Green Shift Plan? It is important to know what Dion is planning to do about these issues as this direction will directly impact the real percentage of proposed collected carbon taxes that will be available for return to us, the Canadian taxpayer.
Is noone else concerned about the costs to,i.e., diesel fuel for public transportation, school buses, ambulances etc.. Watch public transit and property taxes hit the roof if this is implemented.


Scott in Regina
said

Gasoline prices have risen by 200% in the last couple of years, and people have not significantly changed their driving habits. If this dramatic price increase did not result in a change of behaviour, how on earth does Dion think that a tax increase on "bad" carbon emitting actiities is going to change behaviours? This is the only way the shift is supposed to work in order to supposedly reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Furthermore, in Saskatchewan, I don't see any of the Green shift generated revenue going into anything tangible that will reduce greenhouse gases....no funding for research/facilities, no funding for the coal fired power plants to persue carbon sequestration, no investment for all the "green jobs" that are supposed to magically appear if this happens. This is an ill-conceived and weak plan, as far as I can tell from Saskatchewan's perspective and I haven't seen Mr. Dion explain how exactly the economy of Saskatchewan will be better off in 10 years other than providing the standard touchy-feel good rhetoric.

Furthermore, if Canada were to completely shut off all manufacturing, take every car off the road, close every coal fired plant, and shudder the tar sands, the reduction in overall worldwide greenhouse gas emissions would only be around 2%. Is this "plan" even worth persuing in the grand scheme of things?


Toni
said

I'm not convinced that any of the party leaders has an answer for climate change. For that matter I'm not convinced that anyone even knows the causes of climate change. We do know that there has been climate cycles recurring threw out the history of the planet but no one can give us the cause for this. There are all kinds of theories but that is all, just theories. I certainly believe pollution is bad and we should be doing everything possible to stop it, but the scare tactic of it causing the world to end is not the way to do it. We have been talking about reducing pollution for decades, even before many of the people voting in this election were born. With the devastation of the manufacturing base of this country over the last few decades and improvements in technology, how can Canada not be less of a polluter than we were 20 years ago. Is this really a priority item for Canada? Do we really have all the factories spewing toxins into the atmosphere? No, those factories are now in China, India, Mexico and any other country where cheap labour exhists. Sure we can cut back more here with more efficient automobiles and other conservation methods but what will the real world impact on that be? If we are to be taxed to save the ecosystem, lets make sure that money goes into research and development that can solve the pollution problems then we can then sell it to the real polluting countries of the world and truly make a difference while creating jobs here and improving our economy. Lets create and sell a fix to this problem. The demand has already been created.


Max
said

It is time that Mr. Dion pulls up his socks. Time to stop making a big deal about gun control, trying to scare little old ladies in voting for him. We all know that what he is talking about is all bull.
Why is he going to do about all the people that are dying in our hospital waiting rooms.
When is he going to talk to us about things that matter to all of us and not use the Dawson affair to run his campain. Lets move on Thousands of people spend endless hours in crowded waiting rooms in our third world contry hospitals.. Wake up! stop the bull slinging and say something inteligent or leave the party. We need a leader not a clown..


Kevin D
said

Dion has stated that environmental taxes have been proven to work in Europe. Really, which countries and please explain how they have worked. Germany introduced an eco-tax that took in 39.3 billion in 2006, 150 million of that went to green initiatives, 39.2 billion went to the general revenue and their Green house gas emissions didn't drop even a single percentage. That looks like it worked exactly as planned.... (stats from www.feasta.org) Ireland scrapped their eco-tax program and Britain looks like it's going to follow.
I agree that Canada is behind but at least we should learn from Europe's mistake and not just blindly follow them down the path they took.


Dave - Calgary
said

Yes, Canada is behind other countries in reducing carbon emissions. The Liberals have an aggressive plan that will result in raising taxes but I'm not sure how effective it will be in reducing carbon emissions. Of course, we're only in this position because the Liberals signed the Kyoto Accord and then did nothing for years. Now when the world economy is suffering the Liberals are eager to do things that have a strong potential to hurt our economy.
I believe the Conservatives are taking a practical approach to a difficult problem. Let's try to keep the economy healthy in order to be able to afford to make changes that are environmentally friendly.


BCSnowBunny
said

A Carbon Tax will only reduce the standard of living for many Canadians who are barely hanging on and scraping by as it is. I find the potential impact Mr.Dion's proposal very scary. I would set off a chain reaction that will require only one solution...MORE taxes!

What are the people who live in cold areas (which is...ummm everyone north of the 49th) supposed to do when they can't afford their heating bill? Hmmm? How many people reading this right now are trying to put off firing up the furnace for as long as they can?? Hmmm? ... For that matter, how many people don't even have heat because they got behind last year and had their services cut off?? Hmmmm? How many people can barely afford the fuel to get to their 2, 3, even 4 jobs they have to work so they can put food on the table? Hmmm? How many people are already having to choose between buying groceries or paying bills at the end of each month? Hmmm? Is adding to the financial burden of working people really going to help anyone but the Liberals?

A carbon tax would affect far more people negatively than positively. I'm not saying in any way that we don't need to do something NOW to reduce the footprint we leave, but there has to be other ways, other incentives than more taxes on our already tax burdened society.

What good is a few dollars knocked off my income taxes in April when I'm clawing to survive the other 11 months out of the year?? Hmmm? I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Think about that when you are cold and hungry.


Kent in (West) Kelowna
said

How could the proposed carbon tax possibly be of benefit to Canadians? In short, it won't: 1. the change in fuel costs due to carbon tax will be small compared to the natural effect of recent (and future) rises due to market conditions. Therefore, the market will be far better at creating need for alternate fuel sources, changing consumption habits, and reducing GHG. 2. Both market changes and the carbon tax will hurt the most vulnerable parts of the Canadian economy, but the market will create change without adding bureaucratic spending, whereas the carbon tax will create a whole new branch of money-sucking government. Remember the GST and the gun-registry, people? Bam! There goes another billion! 3. Those who already consume the most, the wealthy, will laugh at the tax. Those who most need their money to make it through to next week will be hit hard in the budget. Voluntarily submitting to another tax is simply a bad idea. Any who believe this will be revenue neutral have forgotten that history repeats itself.


Marc Coquitlam B.C.
said

I guess the NeoCONS instead of following the leads of Nations who have adopted a Carbon Tax and have economies that are growing, you would prefer to follow the downward spiral of the U.S. into a recession, 'cause we all know how Harper idolizes American Policy, whether good or bad. As for Layton you are sleeping with the lions.

But I have to admit a bad word to use in any election campaign is Tax, since all that Canadians seem to worry about is their pocketbooks short term, the selfish society that we are. One day you and your children will wake up to see that all your money you saved will be worthless as the price of food becomes the domain of the rich, even with Harper's massive 2¢/L Diesel tax cut.


Calgarian
said

I have examined the Plans, and although the carbon tax is not great, it is the best plan and has been tried and tested in Europe for a decade or two. Harper has killed off our economy, the numbers don't lie, even the States is outperforming us and just three years ago we were the envy of the free world. We had budget surpluses, money for a rainy day, and real debt repayment, not just servicing the debt, but real repayment. All brought to a halt with terrible policy. Worst economic record since the Mulroney era, shameful. I am seriously hoping that Canadians will wake up and think about what Harper has done in such a short time. He is moving us towards a fend for yourself society, that is not the Canada I was born in, raised in and not the Canada I want to grow old in.


Layton (not Jack) in Moncton
said

Why is everyone worried about this global warming scare? There is no evidence that the climate is changing. Instead, we should be worried about real events, like the melting of the polar ice caps - why don't scientists devote their time to finding out why this is happening? Or the floods that ravaged the Midwest this year- what's causing the change in rainfall patterns to unprecedented amounts? Why is the Sahara desert growing in size? What's causing the heat waves in Europe, and the increased hurricane activity in the States? Why has the pine beetle managed to destroy so many trees in B.C.? The earth has never seen so many weather disasters piled on one another so rapidly- what's causing all of these problems?

Until we have answers for these real disasters, scientists shouldn't bother with this "global warming" nonsense.

There's just no evidence for it.


ARJAY
said

Why is it we keep saying that we are way behind the rest of the world on environmental issues. We started off ahead of the rest of the world long before it was an issue. In 2003 60% of Canadian electricity was produced from hydro and other renewable sources. Compare that to 20% for the rest of the world. Hydro carbons only accounted for 22% of our electricity production compared to 61 % for the rest of the world. Maybe we are behind in reducing hydrocarbon use but we started way ahead of the rest of the world.


Share with your social Network:

 

Advertisement

Contest

CTV.ca Specials

Election 2008: Full Coverage

Election 2008: Full Coverage

Extensive and exclusive coverage of the federal election campaign.

Election Blog

CTV Election Blog

Notes from Craig Oliver, Robert Fife and the CTV News election team.

Mike Duffy Live

Mike Duffy Live

Thursday, Sept. 11: Conservatives continue to be distracted by controversy.

Battleground 2008

The Strategic Counsel surveys 45 swing ridings.

Poll tracker

Strategic Counsel's latest numbers from 'Battleground 2008.'

Election Issues

Election Issues

Where the parties stand: Economy, Environment, Health Care, Afghanistan.

My Vote

My Vote

What issues are important to you? Send a video and let us know.

Mobile Updates

Mobile Updates

Sign up for campaign alerts and election night results.

'Race' Book

'Race' Book

Online 'profiles' of the five federal party leaders.

User Tools

About the tools

Need to get in touch with CTV? You can email the CTV web team using the 'Feedback' button.

Share it with your network of friends

Share this CTV article or feature with your friends. Click on the icon for your favourite social networking or messaging system, and follow the prompts.

Share this article with Facebook

Share this article with Digg

Share this article with Newsvine

Share this article with delicious

Share this article.
Send Email

Share this article with Twitter

Share this article with StumbleUpon

Share this article with Reddit

Share this article with Yahoo! Buzz