CTV News | North Pole ice may completely melt away this summer

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North Pole ice may completely melt away this summer

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Friday Jun. 27, 2008 12:59 PM ET

For the first time in modern history, the North Pole may be iceless this summer. Scientists say it's an even bet that sea ice in the region will completely disappear in the next few months, perhaps as soon as August.

Ice at the North Pole quickly and significantly melted away last year, and that may be causing further melting this summer. Scientists say the disappearance of long-term and thicker ice formed over the years has disappeared. Now, most of the ice that's left is seasonal ice, which melts away much more quickly during warm weather.

"This year there is a lot of young ice. There's always some, but this year there's a lot," Andy Mahoney, a researcher at the University of Colorado's National Snow and Ice Data Center, told CTV.ca.

Satellite observations indicate the ice remaining at the poles is melting faster than last year's rate, which was already a record year for Arctic ice loss. Scientists say whether or not the ice melts completely, this year's northern melt is yet another example of the impact that global warming is having on the planet's environment.

"There were some people who were saying last year was a rogue year. If the same thing happens again a lot more people are going to be persuaded about the consequences of global warming," Mahoney said.

"A lot of people think it's a very small change in temperature. This shows that the change in sea ice is quite a dramatic consequence."

As the ice melts, interest in the region is intensifying. Canada and other nations that border the Arctic -- including Russia and the U.S. -- are scrambling to lay claims to vast parts of the area, which may someday allow new resource development and shipping lanes.

"If the North Pole melts, then you don't have to worry about the Northwest Passage. It will still be significant, but going on top of the globe would be politically easier," Mahoney said.

A UN panel is supposed to decide on control of the Arctic by 2020. Last year, Canada's Conservative government announced plans to acquire up to eight Arctic patrol ships and to build an army base in Resolute Bay and a naval station in Nanisivik.

Under the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, Arctic countries have 10 years after ratification to prove their claims under the largely uncharted polar ice pack. All countries with claims to the Arctic have ratified the treaty, with the exception of the United States.

Comments are now closed for this story

Dan
said

Oh but how can that be? I mean, to listen to big business and the global warming/climate change naysayers tell it, you'd think it was cyclictic no? A natural phenomenom!

That's ok scientists, "I told you so" is definitely an apt response.


Tanya
said

I don't think that ownership should be the major issue here, we should be more concerned with the impact this will have on us and our planet afterwards.


Douglas
said

Interesting article... Are there any citations or references for it other than, "We pulled off the news wire, so it MUST BE TRUE!!!"?

Without references, it's interesting for the political correctness angle.

With references, it's interesting for the science.


Al-BC
said

The sky is falling !!! the sky is falling!!!!!!! This overreaction to "global warming" is ridiculous History has many examples of climate change and there is nothing we can do about it. Climate change is a natural occurance. According the International Climate Science Coalition global climate has always changed and always will, independent of the actions of humans, and that carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant, but rather a necessity for all life."

Paul Vancouver Island
said

Which group of policians is the most believeable when it comes to the problems of the planet?

I'll give you a couple of clues as to who cares; it sure isn't John Baird and Stephen Harper. They first said global warming was a socialist plot, then finally agreed something is indeed happening, but only after coming on board kicking and screaming when the public demanded action; they still they have no action plan after all these years in power. They seem to live in denial.

Stephane Dion put forth a green plan recently which is at least worthy of debate. He obviously feels passionate about the issue. All he seems to get from the PM though is scorn rather than constructive debate.

The NDP seem to have a difficult time explaining their position.

The Green Party has proposed something similar to the Liberals but with higher targets.

The Bloc appears to recognize there is a problem but too caught up in their political rhetoric for separation to care enough about the planet.

The Prime Minister's solution always appear to be military in nature. Bring the guns to the north, he says. What ever happened to mutual cooperation? Sure policing is one thing but outright militarism in the north - that is not what is needed.


Alarmisms dangers
said

For those persons who believe the melting ice pack or the melting ice in Greeland or even the warming or cooling of the planet are directly caused and could be controlled be humans need to look further than the last 40 years of history. In fact, you need to do research going back 100's of thousands to millions of years to get the picture, then you would see that we and our society is inconsequential to the climate and we could then devote our attention to real, predictable and measureable environmental improvements.


Jim
said


If the north pole ice is all gone, why haven't the sea coast cities of New York and Los Angeles been flooded?

And if the ice is all gone and the planet hasn't imploded, what are the real effects of global warming?

Access to the north's vast resources? Economic growth in the region? Jobs? Opportunities?

Doesn't seem to be that bad.



Pierre
said

So... did i miss the story about global flooding last year after all that ice Melted.
Seems that we have told for years that if the ice melts, Toronto would be under water.
Hmmm... maybe that would not be such a bad thing.


Paul
said

On November 13th NASA released a landmark study that proves that the melting of the polar ice has little to do with global warming. Keep in mind that NASA is a major supporter of the Global Warming theory, yet they have come out and made it clear that arctic ice melt is not a product of global warming.

Check out "NASA Sees Arctic Ocean Circulation Do an About-Face" at the JPL NASA homepage.






Sean
said

Will all the westerners that are grasping at straws to justify their oil-based incomes please read this article and stop deluding yourselves into thinking climate change isn't happening?

I also find it ironic that nations are anxiously awaiting this environmentally catostrophic event.. in order to get the oil under the arctic. Should we laugh or cry at that?


GW
said

Actully the increased open water should produce more cloud cover which will block the suns radiation and cool things down again.

It's also kind of exciting to have this new resource open up.

At any rate, it's good to live in Canada. Bring on the warmer weather.



Jim McB
said

If this happened weren't we all supposed to be under water? What happened to that theory?


Pirate John
said

Shiver me timbers, there be accesible oil up there :)


Chris
said

Oh great...here comes the herd of chicken littles...


Max
said

Roald Amundsen traversed the Northest Passage in 1903 didn't he?




Bob
said

By August? What other month do you think the ice would be gone by? Here's another news flash: the ice up there starts re-forming in September. Get to know your country.


Steve
said

So admittedly I slept through many a high school science class, but I do seem to remember that when water freezes (to become ice), it actually expands in volume and becomes less dense (which I guess is why ice floats).

If that's true, then the reverse must also be true: as ice melts to become water, it contracts and becomes more dense.

If that's the case, then how do all these coastal cities get flooded out by the "melting polar icecaps"? And, to the other writer's point, why haven't these cities been flooded with the North Pole cap melting?


Sheep
said

SANTA! NOOOOOOOOO!

First GM, now the North Pole will have to close down and put the elves out of work.

Seriously...aren't we getting tired of all the environmental scaremongering? The planet is cyclical in it's weather patterns and we'd be dense to think we can have that big of an effect in such a short period of time.

We're not helping, but we're not harming as much as we think. Of course, we could call for a cull of the human species.....I'm just sayin'.....


steve
said

The world is getting warmer; there is no question. We all have thermometers and can track it. Polar ice melt is a key result. There is one theory that says it is caused by carbon emissions, so the politicians say we need higher taxes to stop making so much carbon smoke. Another theory says it is natural; after all Greenland once had farm fields with cows in them and grew corn and beans....finally there is a whole group of astronomers who have been predicting this for years. Sixty years ago, the sun got a lot hotter, and the sun spot activity increased. I remember a teacher predicting in the late 60's that if it continued we would have a big melt. More sun spot activity means melting ice, deep down in the glaciers....I wonder which theory is right, or if it is a combination of the above. Maybe the politicians should tax sunlight too.



Jerry Jarvela
said

Al-BC is right, there are many instances throughout history of naturally occurring climate change. But to imply that simply because it's happened in the past, therefore we need not worry about it, is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard in my life. Climate change pooh-poohers have the most embarassingly tiny capacity for imagination. Their comments often scream "denial", they are so frequently detatched from any sense of reality or insight.

So what if climate change has happened before? If that's your only argument about why we shouldn't worry about it, then maybe you should go back to highschool. Your critical thinking skills need serious refurbishment. Any fool can see that these global extreme weather patterns are getting worse. How much more can our infrastructure take, as a global society? How many more crops can be destroyed? Food riots ring a bell? We are ALREADY STRUGGLING to meet people's needs. Is it too hard to imagine a scenario where extreme weather contributes to a situation that forces us into another Great Depression?


Keith
said

Rumour has it Santa's ditching his sleigh & reindeer in favour of a magic Zodiac...


DD
said

Al....you're just another example of the general public slurping the Kool-aid distributed by the energy sector.

CO2 may be a necessity to life, but too much of anything can be dangerous. In a natural cycle, the CO2 varies between 180 ppm (ice age) and 300 ppm (peak of warming). This is the way it has been for the last million years (PROVEN through ice core samples). The balance likely has existed for tens of millions of years previous to that.

We are currently at 387 ppm of CO2 and increasing at a rate of almost 3 ppm PER YEAR and accelerating!!!!

Nature takes 1000 years to increase CO2 by 30 ppm. We've done that in less than 20 years!!!! When the CO2 hits the 600-700 ppm area, the warming becomes IRREVERSIBLE!!! At 900-1100 ppm, mass extinctions occur.

It doesn't take a genius to see the problem here. Just an open mind willing to be educated.


george
said

Has anyone measured the earth's orbit around the sun or reported on that recently...? Could be as simple as our planet's orbit closing in on the sun for a period of time. Or its a really serious orbit change and they want to keep our minds occupied with global warming so we don't start thinking about other things like a deteriating earth orbit..!


Agent 86
said

I think I remember not long ago, hearing scientists warn, that if the Artic polar ice cap were to melt, that many coastal cities around the world, especially in the Northern Hemisphere, would have their cities which lay on the coast like New York City, would be submersed in water.

I think the scientists who had that theory, should go back and rethink it.

However, this dosn't mean that the melting of the polar ice cap is good, in fact it is bad, very bad.

We may not really care about it down here in Southern Canada, however many of the Inuit people depend on it for their livelihood.

I think also the article says "For the First time in Modern History", so we do know at one time, the Arctic was tropical, but would that be a negative thing if green were to return?

Scientists are confusing the heck out of me.


Didomyk
said

To Paul Vanc. Island
With your preoccupation with Canadian domestic politics you forgot about many more important political players such as George Bush's (or Barrack Obama's)visions of US 'destiny' or Vladimir Putin with his nuclear subs planting Russian flags. Some interested European players are unlikely to remain silent either. As to Dion's so-called 'plan', its not a green plan but a pure tax grab which we don't need.


DD
said

Jim...the sea levels don't rise when sea ice melts because it is displacing the same volume of water!!! When ice on land melts (Greenland, Antarctica, land based glaciers etc), then the sea levels rises because it is ADDING water to the ocean. The Arctic is melting faster because the ice sitting on the ocean isn't 3 miles thick like it is on Greenland (though the icecaps there are melting at an accelerating rate).

Sea ice not raising sea levels is an incredibly simple fact. It's obvious that if naysayers can't even figure out something that is as simple as pouring water into a glass with an ice cube then how on Earth do they expect to understand the basic science behind Global Warming.

Educate yourselves now because making such comments as you have only prove that you don't have the first clue about the climate.


FuturePM
said

Dont get your pants in too much of a ruffle people. These are just the "birth pains". Global warming cannot be stopped.


Trent
said

Paul in Vancouver - yes the Liberals now have a plan, but correct me if I am wrong isn't this the same party that signed the Kyoto Accord how many years ago and then did absolutely nothing about it. If memory serves me correctly Dion had some involvement with the environment when the Liberals were in power, but now that they aren't in power one of his number one priorities is the environment. The change in both are more than a bit shocking.



DD
said

Steve....the sea ice is not what is raising the sea levels. It's the water melting off the ice caps of Greenland and Antarctica as well as what is coming from land based glaciers.

This ice is on land and is displacing NO water. There is enough ice on land today to raise the sea 250 feet if it all melted (and remember, for every foot of sea rise, the coastline recedes 150 feet!)

Greenland alone has enough ice to raise the sea levels by 20 meters. We won't see that any day soon, but every inch is of concern.

Oh, and remember, Greenland wasn't called that because it was green. It was named so in order to attract settlers to the barren rock.

Educate yourselves! Again, such comments only show how much you grasp at straws to explain away global warming.


Rob
said

Covering Canada, about 20,000 years ago, there was an ice sheet 2km thick; they called it the ice-age. What happened is it melted and everything we know as our natural surroundings today popped out in the last 10,000 years. How could all of that incredible change have just happened by itself? After all, we do know that things can only occur on this planet when ignorant and thoughtless humans make them happen…like when that giant asteroid hit the Yucatan peninsula, causing the demise of the dinosaurs…


Jaid
said

With our current world of "making our future" better will only be met with the combination of destruction , arrogance and greed. Once these three come together, businesses will start taking a beating because the workers are more concerned for their lives as opposed to working for the company. After that, the rich companies relocate to where there's no disasters until such an event strikes there.

As much as we can all talk about cleaning things up, we'll have to wait for those companies to chip in. No business means no money which leads to record-losses.


Shawn
said

Looks like some people here aren't too bright. The reason why the ocean levels haven't increased is because this ice is already in the ocean. It's like an ice cube melting in a glass, when it melts it doesn't overflow the glass.

Antarctica, and Greenland have all the ice that most people are worried about, because the ice is on land there.


ARJAY
said

The reason why the melting of the polar ice will not raise the sea level is because this ice is floating, and displaces as much water whether it melts or not. The rise in sea levels will occur when the antarctic ice sheet melts, or/and the Greenland ice sheet melts, because those are land based, and will add to the overall amount of water in the ocean. And no, increased cloud cover will not lower the temperature, because sea ice reflects back 90% of the sunlight that falls on it. Open ocean absorbs 90%. It's quite possible that when the ice sheets melt, this will trigger more warming...

By the way, those who continue to insist that humans can't add to global warming, what is it you're not getting here? Cyclical changes in global temperatures occur over thousands of years, not decades. CO2 is directly correlated with temperature, and we have added about 120 parts per million since 1830, raising the overall CO2 from 260 to 380 ppm. Of course we can affect the climate- there is no reason why adding CO2 won't affect it-- it's a matter of physics, folks. And we can measure human impact by reading ice core data, which clearly shows the planet warming in direct relation to our increased production of CO2. Three of the warmest years on record have happened since 1998. It's a smoking gun, no matter what the oil companies tell you!


And if you think climate change is a good idea, try telling that to the people suffering from flooding in the States. Or from fires in California. Or from drought in Africa, or the hurricane victims in New Orleans or Miramar. Wake up. Environmentalists' predictions are coming true right before your eyes, and you still deny climate change?

And by the way, who on earth is dumb enough to buy oil company propaganda these days, given the current war in Iraq over oil?.


Noah
said



...Look it's been said to death but some people like beating a dead horse it seems, so hear (pun intended) it goes again:

There is a difference between sea ice and land ice. Simply put, sea ice is like the ice in your glass of coke. As it melts, does your glass overflow with liquid? NO! We won't get any significant flooding from the melting of the North Pole. The melting of land ice in the Antarctic and Greenland, hoever, will most certainly hurt the coastal communities.

Nuff said?



Luke
said

To everyone who thinks the coasts should be flooding. The ice that is melting over the north pole is already displacing the ocean. In other words the amount of ice floating in the ocean is reflected in todays current coastline. If all the ice on Greenland (an island) and Antarctica (a continent) were to melt then we would see rising ocean levels.



Anne
said

The north pole is not a continent (unlike antarctica) so the melting of its ice does not cause the water to rise, just like ice cubes melting in your glass will not cause it to spill over. It's basic elementary school science...


Kris
said

This is great news. I don't know exactly what solar or geological phenomenon is causing global warming (but it sure as hell isn't CO2) but whatever it is we need a little more. Then perhaps we can start inhabiting the 90% of out country that is too frozen to grow food on.


Lorne
said

I believe that there is cause for concern over this latest deveopment.
There are always going to be arguments for and against climate change.
However, human action is contributing to the changes we are seeing.
Those people that don't think so, should give their head a shake.
Watch the news: more severe storms, flooding, etc. and the list goes on.


Kris
said

For all those folks wondering why there hasn't been global flooding due to the ice melting: north pole ice is floating, so when it melts the sea level does not change since it is already displacing its weight in water.

On the other hand if the South Pole ice melts, being supported by land, and runs off into the oceans then we have a serious flooding problem along every coast.

None of which is to say we can do anything about it either way except move to higher ground. The idea that climate is a consequence of human actions goes back to prehistoric sun-worship, but it's all just superstition. The sun will do what the sun will do. Move to higher ground. And don't vote for politicians who want to waste money trying to placate the weather gods with sacrifices of animals or CO2 emissions. The weather gods could not care less.


Al-BC
said

Sean. Yes climate change is happening. However, the climate has been changing for hundreds of millions of years. It is a natural occurance. What we can do about it is inconsequential.


Paul Vancouver Island
said

Hi Trentt from Paul Vancouver Island.

Thanks for proving my point, instead of conservatives debating Stephane Dion's Green Plan you prefer to scorn the man and his values.

He wasn't the leader at the time you write about, but as leader of the Liberal Party now there is no doubt Mr, Dion is committed to finding a Canadian solution which is similar to what is working in many European countries.

At least its a comprehensive plan, so let's debate the plan not bath mouth the positive initiative taken by the leader of the Opposition.


DD
said

Kris, it's naysayers like yourself that make me want to laugh, if only the issue were that funny. You comments, like too many here, are akin to a cancer patient telling the oncologist that you feel fine and don't need treatment.

You may feel fine now, breathing in 380ppm of CO2, but in time, like cancer, you will feel it. It's time you start listening to to the real scientists. More than 2000 in the field are in agreement - a feat never seen before in any scientific field. The so-called "scientists" that try to debunk global warming have been shown to be paid by the energy sector...like Fred Singer. He was also paid by the tobacco industry to tell you that second hand smoke wasn't harmful.

We all know how that turned out. And now you're willing to bet the lives of 6 billion people on his personal greed?????

Open your mind. Educate yourselves. The evidence is there and is OVERWHELMING...to those that WANT to see it.


eric
said

People who think humans are not causing global warming are ignorant to the facts. Also ignorant are the uneducated people commenting that sea level has not risen so the north pole must not be melting. Wow is that dumb!! Floating ice will never raise sea level, only land based ice! People realy need some educating on this critical, planet threatening issue.


Mike B
said

Obviously we as a global society need to curb our polluting ways, thats just common sense. But global warming at an extreme level? Here on Vancouver Island we had more snow last winter than I can remember, and this is the worst spring/start to summer I've ever seen!! Bring on the "warming" and give me a 25 degree average!!


David fm NS
said

As Paul pointed out, but everyone seems to have ignored him, the melting of the Arctic Ice is being caused by a change in the circulation pattern of the Arctic Ocean resulting in an increased salinity level. This is an identified pattern and the research can be seen at NASA's website. Feel free to continue ignoring this and calling for the end of the world... google
"NASA Sees Arctic Ocean Circulation Do an About-Face"


ARJAY
said

Kris- could you please explain the science behind your assertion that CO2 isn't causing an increase in temperature? Do you understand why scientists say it does? Visible light passes through the atmosphere unimpeded. It's absorbed by the ground or water, then re-radiated as infrared radiation (heat). But CO2 absorbs infrared, so the heat can't escape. It's like putting a blanket on the earth. But all climate change deniers can do is simply assert that CO2 doesn't do this. Why not? What law of physics are you suggesting violates the properties of CO2 as measured in the lab? If you can't tell us this, then you simply have no idea what you're talking about. All the denial in the world won't change the laws of physics.


Macfisto
said

Some need to get their little heads out of their a... ! So no matter how and what humans do "it's clyclical"? There is "nothing we can do about it"? Come on! Let's see: if I drop 10000 nuclear bombs on earth at the same time, will that make a difference? So why wouldn't other chemical garbage be as bad on a longuer timeframe? Yeah humans can't affect life on earth! Continue believing this ...go to sleep at night thinking that all is well and you didn't do anything wrong!


Mitch
said

Arjay.. acutally in the past there has been climtae change by several degrees in only a decades time.. in the 1600's the big river that goes through london freezed over( forgot its name) for the first time in history.. and all of your examples of disasters hurting the earth all of sudden being an example of climate change is bull... scientist are saying that it will change 1 degree in like 50-100 years.. so things happening now can not be attributed to what is happening now.. there science is on a computer model..very few actual facts.. more and more scientist come out each day saying they way overreacted and may be wrong.. they change there predictions monthly and attribute every sing thing that happens on earth to climate change- therefor losing credibility-.. and if you read what these scientist say the ice in antartica is actually getting thicker right now.. so why don't you guys go cry about how the world is going die.. everything is going to be wipped out... give me an accurate forecast for a year down the road that is 100% accurate, never mind a forecast for tomorrow and maybe i'll believe you when you try to predict the climate 100 years away is going to be dramatically different then today- pretty tough to argue that one


Big Bear
said

Has anyone heard of the Milankovitch Cycles. These are the Earth's orbital, tilt and wobble cycles and is the cause of all of Earth's past global heating (ie global warming) and cooling (ie glacial) patterns. Yes global warming is happening but it's not all our fault.


perpetual
said

Jim asks: "If the north pole ice is all gone, why haven't the sea coast cities of New York and Los Angeles been flooded?"

Because northpole ice is sea ice - it floats on water and when it melts, it doesn't add any volume; just like a glass of water with ice cubes.

If ice on land melts(e.g. Greenland or Antarctica) - watch out . . .



Tim
said

BRING ON GLOBAL WARMING!!

This is great for Canada. Maybe all those northern islands will finally get warm enough so we can turn millions of square miles into arable farmland. Set up beach side resorts, etc. In 100 years this, the 2nd largest country in the world, will finally be livable everywhere and all our land will be producing something. Unlike the 70% of the country now being tundra. Its all good people!! Don't worry, be happy!


bd in sk
said

As a person of faith, I believe that God sustains the earth and all that is in it. The end of time and life on earth as we know it is in his hands. This brings a sense of peace no matter what the flavor of the month scientist has to say. It is all going to end one day, best be sure that you are ready for it.


Mo
said

Is there still anyone saying global warming is a myth? Why do all countries just worry about the money they'll earn from ice melting, why isn't anyone saying hwat's gonna happen to the wild life and to the rising sea levels after wards.


AylmerBob
said

Jerry Jarvela
"... Climate change pooh-poohers have the most embarassingly tiny capacity for imagination."

And Gore, Suzuki, and all the other chicken-littles out there have only imagination - no facts, no truth - just an over-active imagination.


Jim Cripwell
said

One wonders why this story was promulgated at this time. The ice melt this year has tracked practically the same as last year. There is slightly more ice this year than last. However, last year, on Canada Day, there was the largest single day's loss of ice that has been recorded since records began in 1979. It was this event that started last year's massive melt. We only have to wait a week or so to see if this year is going to follow what happened last year. So why not wait this week or so, and we will have a better idea of what might happen.


Sceptic
said

Yawn!!! The earth has been in constant evolution FOREVER. So what if humans do influence the earth's temperature? Mother nature will have a way of naturally balcing things out. It's not in our control anyways. Live life and enjoy it while you can. I'm sick of hearing about this stuff.


peace and love are groovy
said

I really think that human civilization should be rolled back to the pristine times around 1200's before any evil fossil fuel using corporations where ever even a dream. Life was way better for all humans and especially for all our plant and animal friends. Humans should not live into their 70's or 80's!! They should die in thier 30's, leaving more room for the animals to frolic. And 3 out 4 babies are supposed to die before age 2!!! That is how angels are made! This modern, oil-based civilization is evil and the world will be so much the happier place without it.

Now everyone just hug and stop arguing with Al gore!!


The 4 C's-ons? ...
said

Human hysteria about global warming (whether real, imagined, denied, or whatever) is a bigger threat to all of us than global warming itself (whether real, imagined, denied, or whatever).

We human beings need to (re?)learn how to be Cool, Calm, Collected, & Composed. The 4 C's of CivilizatiON have NOthing to do with carbON.

To Extremists of _ALL_ sorts EVERYWHERE on planet Earth: please chill out.


Jim
said

DD

"Greenland alone has enough ice to raise the sea levels by 20 meters. "

I just need some clarification here. If the earth is 70% water and 30% land, how can the ice on Greenland alone raise sea levels 20 metres? Greenland is less than 2% of the total earth land mass.

Thats like saying if Canada cuts CO2 emissions, which is 2% of the world emissions, that global warming will be reversed.

Some people will say anything to scare the people for their own political agenda.



Dick Varley
said

It seems that there is a general consensus that the earth's climate is warming. The cause of this is debatable between those suggesting it is an historical natural phenomenon and those saying that current global warming is a crisis due to man made factors. However it is the speculators who are who are driving the issue under the guise of improving the quality of life. These same speculators are the ones who are driving up the price of oil.

Economic interests have created a drive for the redistribution of wealth. By way of examples we just have to look at Kyoto which basically boiled down to a redistribution of wealth from oil producing countries to those without oil. We also just have to look at how quickly specific financial interests were to establish an exchange for trading among conformers and non-conformers. How does such an Exchange actually impact the environment? It only shifts around the wealth.

In Canada only lip service is paid to economic sectors other than petroleum, particularly the oil sands of Alberta. Political will is driven by Ontario and Quebec and these provinces are suffering economically so therefor, as has happened many times in the past, it is once again time to rape the resource rich western provinces.

None of this action significantly contributes to rectifying the fact that the climate of this earth is warming whether it is natural or man made. But, a lot of people think it is a grand opportunity to make some money.


John
said

Oh, come on people, this is foolish, like arguing whether the bus you are on is careening off a cliff because of gravity or bad driving.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that global warming is happening and will, in all likelihood, have enormous and potentially disastrous consequences.

Prudence is required. We need to be careful about what we do, and until we have better information, let's not make things worse.

We should curtail unnecessary consumption, and avoid waste. We shouldn't need a potential catastrophe to get us to do that! Let's take a responsible attitude towards the stewardship of out precious little planet and try to save as much of what is good for future generations.

It is better for now to err on the side of caution. Be careful, people.


Kevin
said

But how do we know that having a North pole with perpetual ice is normal? I mean, sure, it's been there since after the ice age, but have people ever thought that maybe it wasnt there before the ice age, and having it exist, although it's what we've always known, isn't the norm?


Adam
said

I noticed a couple comments asking the question why haven't the coastal cities flooded with all the ice melt at the north pole.

First of all give your head a shake. If ice that is floating in water melts, it isnt going to change the sea level because it is already in the water.

Sea level will rise when the ice on land such as Greenland melts. And that certainly is not a good thing, despite what the naysayers think. C'mon now, take some time to think about your comments first.


Greg in the Hammer
said

I believe the debate isn't really over global warming. Data show's us that the earth has warm close to one degree Centigrade over the last 150 or so years.

The problem with the enviro-terrorist movements assertion that this increase is man made and due to CO2 emissions is that well over half of this increase in mean temperature occured before 1950. That is directly from the lauded IPCCs own document. So....if temperature increasede anyway despite the fact that CO2 emissions were a fraction of what they were post 1950 how does one conclude that man has created this latest shift in climate?

The IPCC has ingored natural factors like increased solar activity, geo thermal fluctations in the earths core, etc. They have ignored history which clearly shows us that there have been times when the earth has been both much warmer than it is now and much colder.....wait for it..... all without any human involvement.

Politicians have jumped on the band wagon because they want to get elected. The enviro terrorists have been successful in getting people to believe the world will end if we don't all stop driving our cars, going to work, developing our economies etc etc. They show pictures of baby Polar bears swimming in the ice floes and say they are going to go extinct. News flash....Polar bears swim every day...thats what they do

Recent releases from places like the German meterorlogical society have in fact stated that we may be entering a cooling period.....?

In any event the world has much more pressing and potentially dangerous things to worry about than global warming. Like an increasingly ambitious and resource hungry China, an Iran determined to build a nuclear arsenal, the continued brutality of a thug like Mugabe.

But oh no....David Suzuki and his ilkj would have us think its more important to replace all of our light bulbs.


Greg in the Hammer
said

To the many quoting and referring to the vaunted IPCC panel of 2000 scientists who agree on global warming and its consequences for earth. At least half of those people ARE NOT SCIENTISTS. They are bureaucrats and politicians. Many of the remainder ARE NOT CLIMATOLOGISTS but work in other fields. Of those at last count several hundred have undertaken measures to have their names REMOVED from the IPCC bibliography as they can no longer support the IPCCs assertions and conclusions.

Its typical of the enviro terrorist movement to lash out at those who challenge their conclusions and methodology and hypothesis. They call them pawns of big energy and big business. What they fail to mention is that global warming and the perpetuating of the belief that it is man made has become a 7 billion dollar a year industry and many of the people who have authored the IPCC documents have vested financial interests at stake should this theory be disproved. Things like academic tenure, research grant money, green technology research, etc etc.

Those who cry foul should be careful about casting stones.
Al Gore has made over 100 million dollars since the release of "An Inconvenient Load of Crap" How much of it has he given towards alleviating the problem?


Kris
said

For those who asked, I believe (manmade) CO2 has nothing to do with it because historically global temperature has risen even when CO2 levels have decreased or remained constant. There is no long-term correlation between the two.

For the others who asked, yes I am a physicist, no I am not paid by the energy sector, (or even by the tobacco industry, although I am not sure what that has to do with anything...) and yes I do believe that saying humans are causing the planet to warm is like saying humans are causing the sun-god to get angry.

Get away from the superstition folks. Not all natural events are a consequence of human misdeeds. If you're concerned then move to higher ground and buy beachfront property around the Hudson Bay. And vote for someone who will spend tax revenue intelligently rather than on placating the weather gods by destroying Canadian industries. And finally be glad that we live in a country that can only benefit from warming. Warmth=good folks. Ice does not foster growth.


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