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Dion introduces 'green shift' carbon tax plan
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Date: Thu. Jun. 19 2008 9:42 PM ET
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion revealed his party's carbon tax plan Thursday morning, telling reporters that Canada needs to make a "green shift" to help save the environment.
At the heart of the energy plan is an energy tax on carbon fuels, which will be based on consumption.
New taxes are expected to generate about $15.4 billion annually in revenue in four years. But the Liberals say their plan will be revenue neutral because it will cut income taxes and increase family support payments.
Dion said his plan is "as powerful as it is simple."
"The Liberal Green Shift will cut taxes on those things we all want more of -- such as income, investment and innovation -- and shift those taxes to what we all want less of: pollution, greenhouse gas emissions and waste."
The proposed tax -- unveiled at a boisterous Liberal rally in Ottawa -- will hit electricity and home heating fuel but exempt gasoline at the pumps, which Dion said was already taxed.
The Liberals say their "Green Shift" plan will:
- put the price of greenhouse gas emissions at $10 per tonne, rising to $40 per tonne in the fourth year
- cut the lowest income tax bracket ($37,885 or less) by 1.5 per cent to 13.5 per cent
- give a one per cent tax cut to the second and third lowest income brackets
- cut taxes by $15.5 billion, including $11 billion in personal income tax cuts
- create a new universal child tax benefit worth $350 per child annually in addition to existing child benefits
- add a $600 increase to the Guaranteed Income Supplement for seniors, and increase benefits for low-income Canadian families
According to background documents, consumers will feel some impact, but the Liberals say extra fuel costs will be balanced off by income tax breaks and benefit increases. The average heating costs for homes that use oil are expected to rise by $203 per year. Homes using natural gas could see an average annual increase of $266.
The Liberals say a family of four with an annual income of $60,000 will save more than $1,300 from their tax cuts. The savings will be largely offset by higher energy costs, and the Liberals say the bulk of their plan will be paid for by large industrial emitters.
In a question and answer with reporters following the rally, Dion said he has not abandoned his support for a "cap and trade" system for carbon emissions in favor of a carbon tax. But he said such a system -- which would force companies to buy credits if they go above emissions quotas -- is likely years away.
"I changed my mind. My thinking evolved ... the best place to start right now is the "Green Shift," he said.
Tories: plan is a 'tax trick'
But Prime Minister Stephen Harper accused Dion of making a tax grab and of flip flopping on a commitment against a carbon tax.
"Mr. Dion has already broken his promise," Harper told reporters following a press conference in Huntsville, Ont.
Dion said "he would not have a carbon tax ... when he gets into office he'll put a carbon tax on gasoline and everything else. And it will not be revenue neutral," Harper said.
Dion said the tax would be revenue neutral, with the auditor general reporting annually to be certain.
The plan "will put every single penny back into the hands of Canadians," he said.
The Conservatives held a press conference Thursday afternoon to outline their criticisms in detail. Alberta MP Jason Kenney claimed new taxes on jet fuel, diesel, and home heating will hurt average Canadians.
He said manufacturers, oil refineries, and every company that faces carbon taxes will pass on their costs to consumers.
"You'll pay more for everything," Kenney said, calling the "Green Shift" a phony phrase.
Analysts say the Liberal plan is considered an enormous political risk and a tough sell, and is expected to generate debate across the country over the summer.
The issue may become the focal point of the next federal election. It quickly created a heated debate in the House of Commons, where the Liberals and Tories continued to exchange barbs over the issue during question period. The NDP also jumped into the fray.
"We've got no plan from the government, with emissions going up. (And)we've got the wrong plan from the Liberals," said NDP Leader Jack Layton.
The NDP dismissed the Tories' intensity-based approach, which the party says won't reduce carbon emissions. Layton has also rejected the concept of a carbon tax.
Instead, the NDP has called for a "cap and trade" system that puts a strict limit on greenhouse gas emissions by "big polluters." The companies would pay if they exceed their limits. Companies that don't use their capacity could trade or sell unused credits.
Some analysts say the Liberal plan introduced Thursday may be revenue neutral on a large scale, but not everyone will see new taxes offset by tax cuts.
"It's never going to be revenue-neutral for any individual or any corporation,'' Don Drummond, the chief economist for TD Bank, told The Canadian Press.
"Everybody's going to be able to do their own calculations to some degree, and there will be winners and there will be losers. So in aggregate you may say, 'OK, the $15 billion got recycled, but it didn't in my household budget.'''
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.




Comments are now closed for this story
Rocket
said
At least then they could be elected based on honesty!
Greg from Kitchener
said
income tax cut wll not help seniors or low wage income earners. I am not blinded by this bull!
Reid
said
David
said
Come up with a plan which lowers my taxes but does not raise the cost on ANYTHING else.
I don't trust the Liberals to reduce taxes anyway. They still have national daycare, guaranteed minimum income and other giveaways sitting in the closet waiting to be resurrected. I sure hope they aren't counting on votes from the Western provinces.
Mark M
said
Ann
said
Ian
said
larry
said
No way for more tax and I don't trust these guys at all to keep their word.
Of course their friends in the media will be overall supportive come election time.
Kevin P
said
1 other question I have about this plan. How many people is it going to take to run this behemoth?! 15 billion dollars in tax collecting, and then dolling out a pittance back to Canadians. I have little faith after programs like the gun registry, which was supposed to cost a mere 2 million dollars to tax payers, and is currently up to around the 1.4 billion! And it failed! It either needs to be scrapped or re done. Much of the data is false, or has been left unverified.
If he truly wanted to fix global warming, bring in mandatory reductions on appliance energy consumption, increase home building standards to include geo-thermal, wind and solar at a home level. Do as Australia, and subsidize 50% of home wind solar upgrades up to 8000.00 per household. Don't play these ridiculous shell games with our tax payers money and pretend it isn't going to cost consumers a fortune. Most of us aren't that stupid.
and lastly, For someone who preaches the end is coming, Al Gores home energy consumption increased by over 10% last year. His bills for power now average over 16000.00/month!! that is thousand... He also made over $100 million last year preaching his "the end is nigh" message.
The preachers are getting filthy rich, our taxes are going up. Sumthin' smells here...
Same Shift, different smell
said
Dion is going to be kicked out of every BBQ backyard.
Combined with soaring gas prices creating unemployment and a cooling period with longer winters coming as the natural cycle continues, his tax grab is utterly "insane" like the PM said.
J.C.
said
Will From Ottawa
said
Even if the Liberals' plan actually includes corresponding cuts to income taxes, that does not take into account the inflationary pressures on the economy that this "carbon tax" will inevitably bring. Since most things in North America are transported by truck or rail, and since they bothh use diesel, it follows that the increased cost of transportation will also in turn increase the price of the items being transported. The price of heating homes in this country would also increase as a result of this proposal. Thus, indirectly, this tax would increase the price of most things and therefore increase the cost of living overall.
MHR
said
Harper already proven that wrong because he is one who broken many promise and even lied to people.
I trust Dion more than Harper so I believe that his green plan is effective and I support it.
For you all, you elected a good government out of the office aka. Paul Martin's government and his government tabled an plan that many expert actually believe that it could work without harm ecomony and even able to meet KYOTO's target. I can't believe that how easily we all are forgetting that? Obviously Harper did good job on brainwashing you folks. I suggest you all to support this plan and show Harper that you guys are not his puppet.
Proud Canadian - Please make Canada a proud nation again.
Josh in Ontario
said
Matty
said
Matt
said
It isn't going to be cost neutral to you.
Dion has even suggested they won't need to hire people to implement this tax. But a multibillion dollar carbon emission system without ANY new government jobs to administer it?
I think it's insulting to suggest that the Canadian public will believe a plan of this magnitude could be implmented for no cost. Of course maybe Dion knows Canadians really are that gullible.
Neil
said
government department to give it back - and call it revenue neutral.
A bankrupt House of Commons - living in their own wonderland.
Astounded by lack of foresight
said
Even if it turns out to be *cough* "revenue neutral", the NET result will be a HUGE spike in the inflation rate as (I believe) electricity and other items that will fall under the carbon tax are used to determine the inflation rate. What will THAT do to the economy of Canada? Who will pay the increased costs for Hospitals, Government Offices/Departments etc? Also, I believe that these very same items are either directly or indirectly used to calculate the cost of living index from which things like poverty rate, welfare payments, CPP payments, old age pension payments are dervied or indexed. This will of course result in increases to all of these payments as we are a social society. Finally, what is the source of these payments? That's right! Income and Corporate taxes! So much for those much vaunted tax-cuts.
Another fine example of short-sighted thinking by your Liberal Party of Canada.
GetInformed BeforeAssuming
said
If we don't tax higher to the worst abusers/users then they will never change.I am in no way a liberal, but why don't you get informed before assuming you know what this tax is aobut.
Lee
said
soviet canuckistan
said
Freezing in MB
said
Davey boy
said
Phil
said
Ray
said
GaryinWpg
said
After 9-11 what was the first thing the Libs do? A security tax! Feel safer now?
Is that all they know how to do?
Typical Liberal mentality, give us your money so we can look after you.
Yeah right.
Mr. Dion, word of advice...quit while you're ahead.
Carl
said
Steve
said
Mike S
said
Eric in China
said
What's funny is that I'm actually ok with a carbon tax as long as its applied to EVERY country's imports, whether they are developed or not. At least we would all be paying and would make a difference rather than shifting the production to China or Mexico.
It should seriously be illegal to vote to take money from one area and give it to another.
Canada...its starting to remind me of Zimbabwe...
Brian
said
Terri
said
If they want it, pay for it and stop dipping into my pocket to subsidize the BS pollution heavy lifestyle that you all feel you're entitled to. Yes I live in the city, I sold my car, I take public transit, and my carbon foot print is small. I'm damn proud of it and I will support any plan that will financially reward me for it.
Andrew
said
Then they cover this story in such a positive light, you'd think people wanted higher gas prices.
Nicole
said
eskiefan
said
Brian G.
said
IT Manager in Calgary
said
Dave
said
Are the gas companies and hydro companies going to wait for payment until after the tax refunds have been sent?
rob
said
Add up your heating bill, water bill, hydro bill, cable bill, etc. and multiply by the 2% GST reduction and then by 12 = yearly savings from GST cut. Please stop using the cup of coffee or pack of gum calculation.
ET
said
Now, I don't know about you guys, but I'm more PO'd about Exxon-Mobile raking in $1,364 a SECOND in the last two quarters...that's over $10B a quarter. Maybe with gas and electric being more expensive, people will actually start changing their behaviours...I think Exxon-Mobile has enough money.
mike
said
What better time to start doing something than now? If you put any stock in the foretasted price of oil, or the impending consequences of climate change, it certainly won't get easier, or cheaper to wait.
MB
said
Can someone then explain to me what the answer is? How are we going to reduce our dependency on oil? How are we going to reduce prices on fuel, food, etc?
If we do nothing, prices keep going up and we suffer. If we do something, prices go up and we suffer.
I am glad that we're finally talking about solutions.
Considering that we won't have a majority government for the foreseeable future, I'm sure that the plan in it's current form won't pass as advertised, even if the Liberals get a minority government.
Exciting times!
Why are these people not smiling?
said
Neither is anyone else for that matter. Pathetic.
Gord
said
Raj
said
What a beautiful way to allow corporations to mask cost increases and profit gouging under the mask of a "Carbon Tax"
Is anyone really foolish enough to believe that Corporations are going to pay dollar one of this tax?
Average Canadian Tax Payers are going to be saddled with paying the carbon tax for everyone as the tax will be pasted on through price increases.
Shan
said
Dale Wilson
said
An earlier writer did the math quite well, I'll save a few hundred on my income tax (or so they say) but I'll be paying 5 or 6 times that amount extra every year to heat my home, keep the lights on at night and get to work...what more do you want me to do? I drive a Civic, every bulb in my house is a CF, we keep the house at 19 in the winter and don't have an air conditioner, all our appliances are Energy Star...we're doing our part..every single thing we can do and yet we're going to have our lives affected by Dion's non-sensical and illogical scheme.
Phil
said
Jim
said
Jim
skeptical
said
Some Canadian
said
People, we got to start thinking long-term, big picture. The short-term high cost of fuel may actually lead to better, more efficient, energy sources which will cut down on emissions!
I still want to see the Liberals plan in full to render judgement, but on the face, its a good idea. The cost of fuel will go up anyway due to speculators, so why not find a mechanism to fund alternative fuel sources and also help reduce emissions?
Walter Green
said
BC Pensioner
said
C'mon, really...
said
No More Liberal Trickery
said
If you want to see real cuts in GHG emissions, give incentives, not punishment.
Adam
said
Even with the increasing costs of fossil fuels, and this tax, it would still be cheaper for me to heat and power my house on the grid, compared to the out of pocket cost of installing solar or wind or geo thermal. If this tax is revenue neutral, there would still be like a 30 year ROI on renewable energy if prices remain the same.
OK tax us on fossil fuels, but give us tax breaks to go green! That would break our dependance on fossil fuels, increase our standard of living (less operating costs), it's good for the environment and exponentially help that industry. Look at what California did.
Corey
said
My guess is they will slash transfer payments to the provinces to keep up the federal social programs. The provinces will be left to fend for themselves to raise the capital to cover these costs and that will be in the form of tax increases. Then the feds can claim victory that there plan works, and its the provinces fault that we have to pay more taxes.
Dion really needs to explain this idea in full. The longer he waits, the harder it will be for him to sell it to Canada.
Matt
said
Yes carbon taxes have been successfully implemented.
Lets take the example of Europes success.
1. Higher taxes
2. Higher unemployment, massive job losses, and the movement of entire factories and companies to other jurisdictions.
3. Massive protests due to rising energy prices.
4. Continued increases in CO2 emissions.
Bad for the people, bad for the economy and doesn't reduce emissions. I guess the success is the massive government bureaucracy it created.
Kevin D
said
ARJAY
said
Instead, ask whether you would support this plan if in fact the government made it revenue neutral. Suppose they have the numbers right, and return to the people as much money as they take in, including the costs of administration. Would you support it then, or would you find some other, equally spurious grounds to attack it? The strongest argument against something is not to dismiss it ahead of time, but to give it a fair chance and see what happens based on evidence. It's called the scientific method.
Give evidence a chance, and if it fails, then change it.
The climate crisis is real, in spite of what climate change deniers have deluded themselves into beieving (talk of "natural cycles" is right up there with creationism- these cycles take thousands of years, not decades, as climate change is taking). If we're not willing to even risk a revenue neutral attempt to solve the problem, then exactly what is your plan? Wait and see if the scientists are right? Are you really willing to risk the future of the planet based on your apparent disbelief of all politicians and scientists?
Now that's irrational, don't you think?
Mitch
said
Also this will hit tourism with higher prices for people to come here and purchase goods. Good thinking dion.
And another point, this if implemented, will hurt western economies, which are the only ones that are doing well in this country right now
KJ in Toronto
said
If it is expected that the tax is passed on to the customer by business and industry, what's the point? They're not being penalized at all.
And if it is revenue neutral like the Liberal's claim, what's the point of introducing it to begin with? I mean, once removing politics from the equation, what's the point?
bennji
said
I do not know all the details of the proposed carbon tax plan, but I am happy to see that at least one of our national parties is taking issues of the environment seriously.
When all is said and done, I hope that this opens up a debate on how to deal with this very important public policy issue.
Enough with the partisan rhetoric and fear mongering from the current government. I am sick of their childless little ads, and funny little cartoons.
How stupid do they think we are?
said
Rob
said
Let me see:
Income tax wil be a temporary war measure.
The GST will be revenue neutral. (that worked well)
Unemployment insurance premiums are used for the unemployed.
The airport security tax is used for airport security.
McGuinty's health care tax is all used for health care.
Gas taxes are used to build roads.
The income surtax is a deficit reduction measure.
Does the phrase " roll into general revenue's" ring a bell?
The Conservatives have it wrong. This is not a Dion tax trick. This trick has been used over and over again for decades. The question is "how many times are voters going to be sucked in"?
National Energy Program - Version 2
said
dave
said
Bevan
said
Mark Sheridan
said
David in New Brunswick
said
I too am a Maritimer. You forgot the third option of heating: wood. (I heat exclusively with wood).
My rates are fixed, and if I need fuel, I go cut it down.
I do agree that deterrents work, but what of incentives? It's not just "stick", it's CARROT and stick.
I think that the conservative ads were right on about Dion's tax grab.
Frank Buchan
said
Ignoing all the lies and posturing, it does make the head spin to think that they are considering taxing necessities that in this country could freeze you to death if forgone. How exactly does a fixed income person offset the rise in heating oil that would come from this, if that is their only option, as it is in many parts of the country even today? Wages certainly won't be going up without further pressuring prices everywhere. For that matter, how does anyone offset the food prices rising as farmers, who need a lot of energy inputs to produce and ship goods we need, have to raise their prices? Granted, maybe we should eat less...perhaps they can rename this the "Dion Diet."
This is no reason to not vote Liberal though, because if elected, my guess is the Liberals would simply do what they did before: not implement a thing.
Wally
said
Ger
said
This plan is about a change in consumer spending mindset. Buying more efficient goods. Walking or bicycling rather than driving especially short distances. Turning down your heating by a degree or two or turning off the Air Conditioning when you aren’t home. Turning off the lights when you exit a room.
As consumer shy away from energy sucking products, manufacturers will need to produce more energy efficient goods in order to survive.
Those who insist on continue to use those energy sucking products will have to pay for it. Yes, I have an SUV and choose to use it. Yes, gas is very pricy.
For those of you who say “China and other developing countries are still spewing carbon into the air.” I say if China jumped off a cliff, would you follow?
At least with the Liberal plan, we get some direct benefit through tax relief rather than just pay the pass through which will happen in the other plans.
Cal in Ottawa
said
Mike from Comox
said
The government takes (and wastes) enough of my paycheck already thanks, I'd like to keep the portion that they currently allow me to have.
Revenue neutral? Are Liberals getting too lazy to even try feeding us a credible lie?
Ryan in Kelowna
said
Bryan
said
Dave
said
Oh, the hilarity!
Al
said
Bryan
said
Hawar Emin
said
Shan
said
maurice
said
gary wilson
said
bunny
said
David
said
We need more public transit, more fuel efficient cars and trucks. The Government should be talking higher mileage requirements, not higher taxes.
DG
said
Allan from Cowtown
said
john g
said
How much will my electricity bill go up?
How much will my gas bill go up?
How much will the cost of home heating oil go up?
This is not details. This is a whitewash.
Harrison
said
Don
said
DJM
said
Chuck you Farley.
said
and its ironic that they say everyone else is being selfish. when people in different situations and I think you would find the people that rely on a car the most are ones in a low income bracket live in rural areas and do not have access to public transit. I live in a city now, I bike 26 km a day but i need my SUV for the winter as buses don't run on my work schedule
I can't wait to move back to the country where i can grow my vegetables rather that see people try to elect them to office
Kevin D.
said
Norway introduced a carbon tax /levy specifically aimed at it's petroleum industry to encourage their oil companies to sequester CO2 emission into underground chambers back in the late 90's. The price of fuel in Norway doubled within the year. Their oil production has gone up each year and their CO2 emissions has gone up faster then their population, their CO2 emmissions has increased by 8%. So it looks like that carbon tax has worked!!!! ( all information gleaned from CBC website and Norway's government website). Next lets look at New Zealand. They implemented a $15.00 per tonne of CO2 emmission tax in the start of 2005. They cancelled it at the end of the year because it wasn't reducing emmissions and instead went to credit trading system(www.theage.com.au). Both New Zealand and Norway plan to meet their Kyoto agreements by purchasing credits from former eastern bloc countries whose industry collapsed since 1990. Even though both New Zealand and Norway have actually increased their emmissions they will both be considered environmentally friendly because they will dump over $2 billion dollars into a couple of Eastern bloc countries who will most likely use the money to develop coal fired power plants. So please some one show us one country that has proven the carbon tax to be successful. Also for you information, the EU has not reduced emissions in any of the last 4 years. It is averaging a 1.2 percent increase per annum. So much for their 8% reduction. To offset it they will most likely purchase credits from former eastern bloc countries or pay for reforesting parts of China that are being stip mined for coal. Sorry I know it's just another cheap (actually expensive) shop at the Kyoto accord showing that is a transfer of wealth rather than a global reduction of emissions like it was supposed to be.
What type of plan would work? How about placing tariffs on imports that cause CO2 during manufacturing. This would increase the price of Chinese made goods due to the power for chinese manufacturing coming from each new coal power plant that they are commissioning at a rate of 1 per week. This money could go towards improving Canadian manufacturing technology (new scrubbers etc.) How about improving transit and rail systems in Canada. If you live downtown Toronto or Montreal you have a great transit system but I know the transit systems in Calgary, Halifax, Vancouver and Winnipeg do not come anywhere close to those two systems. As long as green choices are reasonable and not inconvenient they can be increased. But demanding all suburban dwellers to not drive just because you live in a nice downtown apartment is not a practical idea. I don't think having 2 million people living downtown Toronto would solve this issue. In Calgary, a 1000 sq. ft condo right downtown is $500,000 plus. In suburbia it's $300,000 for a starter home that is about the same size. People can barely afford the $300,000 tag let alone the $500,000 tag.
AJ in Edmonton
said
Mark in NB
said
What happens to seniors on fixed incomes who pay no income taxes now? Any decrease in income taxes for them is pointless.
So for them the only change they see with the Liberal plan is an increase in heating costs?
I have voted Liberal and Conservative in the past. This plan does not make me want to vote Liberal. My parents will freeze under this plan.
Dan-Yellowknife
said
Ted
said
Craig
said
Question - if it is really that simple, why don't the Liberals simply propose to take $15 billion out of general revenue and eliminate the middle man?
Answer - because then they can't pass out the rose coloured glasses and try to hide this $15 billion boondoggle from Canadians.
Because then they don't look like spend happy fools.
Because then they can't point to their platform and say "see, ours is different from the governments".
--------------
Oh and Mr Dion, the only way I'll accept this is revenue neutral is if I get back EVERYTHING I paid out plus interest on my tax return.
That is, a line saying:
2008 purchases:
______ (KwH)
______ (L)
No? Didn't think so.
Peter
said
This is merely another Liberal tax grab which would have to be corrected by the Conservatives.
Ward Grantham
said
LB
said
Please...
said
The Liberal Party's most naive assumption about the Canadian voter is that they are not as smart as the pompous gas-bags who fill their ranks. A decade or so in the opposition may humble them.
John in London
said
Thanks but I think I will PASS on liberals like I have done for the last 15 years.
I choose Mr Harpers thoughtfull and balanced approach to the GHG issue by regulating industrial polluters.
Doug BC
said
And,after all,the real goal is supposed to have us reduce our consumption.Like the "deficit reduction tax" was to help balance the budget.Or the GST was a cash grab which Liberals would quash.
Sorry Mr.Dion.You cannot undue a past which clearly shows Liberals cannot be trusted on tax issues.
And finally,no one likes taxes.But at least income taxes are paid on a scale that considers a persons ability to pay.The problem with consumption taxes is that they impose more hardship on lower income people.
The issue is NOT about taxes.It IS about reducing pollution and GHG's. Todays energy prices already have us scrambling to lower our consumption.The tide is turning.Impoverishing even more people is counter productive because taxpayers need a good economy to buy hybrid transportation,or upgrade our homes.
Revenue neutral? Only a really partisan lefty would really believe that.Even the BC NDP is against the carbon tax here.
Peter
said
Jack
said
Ray
said
In the last 4-years I have replaced our family cars to those that get 7.0lts/100Km (39 mpg) and 9lts/100 KM,(32.5mpg)after adjusting my personel driving habits. Also updated my furnace to a 92% efficency one. I did this without gov't hand outs or tax relief, just a belief in reducing my fuel consumption to lower my fuel bills ( and carbon output). Guess what, I live in Alberta, we do not need any gov't rules, as the free market increasing fuel prices have done it for us.
This policy is doomed for failure, the fiberal party has finally proven that they are totally out of touch with Canadians and think that gov't control is all important instead of showing leadership. Leadership is defined as "The ability to make people do WHAT you WANT THEM to do , because THEY want to do it.
The LPC has not shown this princple for a very long time.
Stanley
said
The items above will allow me to feel as though I'm doing my part in reducing emissions and doing something good for the environment. The money flying out of my wallet and bank account don't seem to have the same effect.
How much of our tax dollars have already been spent on this silly Carbon Tax plan? Stop wasting my money already.
Make people feel good about saving the environment...not worried sick about going bankrupt.
ARJAY
said
"An extensive study of the Swedish CO2 tax carried out by the Swedish Envirnomental Protection Agency concluded that 'the CO2 tax has helped reduce emissions of CO2 in line with Swedish environmental policy. The Danish Ministry of Finance concluded that the effect of the carbon tax regime lowered CO2 emissions by 4.7% from 1988 to 2000.'"
Another site (Norway):
"Although total emissions have increased we find significant reductions in emissions per unit of GDP...but these emissions represent only 2% of an overall reduction of 14%."
It seems that other juristictions in the world are actually having some success at reducing CO2 using a carbon tax, but that this must be combined with other methods to hvae a real impact on the envirnoment.
Best approach: implement, check results, modify plan as needed.
But do something rather than whining about taxes and debating climate change. It's getting to be toolate for that.
Jennifer from Toronto
said
As we know, Canada also has hundreds of tiny communities where the inhabitants are forced to rely on personal transportation to go to work everyday, sometimes commuting for an hour each way.
The people who live in these villages and towns are already being stretched to the limit with the current cost of gas, and for those who are self employed, an income tax break just doesn't make any difference.
It seems to me that as much as this plan is coming from a place of good intention, all it will do is prove a larger separation between those who have, and those who have not.
Greig
said
Don
said
Penny
said
David
said
There is simply no proof that our use of fossil fuels is causing global warming.
This whole program is a scam to create a new revenue stream.
There is no reason for us to increase tax on fuels. The increasing price will be sufficient to curb demand and provide government with sufficient revenue to fund further tax cuts.
hopeless
said
What a Joke
said
Allan Eizinas
said
My initial reaction is that this latest approach is to tax (collect revenue) from those creating the pollution and decrease taxes (distribute that revenue) to the consumers who are paying the increase on commodities because of the special tax.
The concept seems to make sense but I will wait to hear the details and statistics that support this plan.
The only way you change consumer behavior is through the pocketbook.
Support or resistance will probably depend on how each individual feels about the problem of pollution and consequently on global warming.
Dick Varley
said
Graeme
said
RM
said
Ryan
said
Either way, I think the comments on how this will affect low income seniors who won't benefit from other tax cuts on and live in older, less efficient homes, shows the big problem with this plan. Until they start with the subsidizations and we all know where that money comes from.
commando
said
Bill
said
What a joke. This is nothing more than a massive tax grab by raising energy prices when they are already sky-high.
The Liberals are hiding behind their "Green Shift" to implement their Marxist wealth distribution scheme and social engineering plots.
The market is dictating changes in energy use as we speak. You see it by the new cars being rolled out and proposals for new nuclear plants from Alberta to New Brunswick. Leave the taxpayers alone and allow the market to continue to work.
James in NB
said
As for those of us who heat our homes with wood; wait for it - they will find a way to tax it as a CO2 emitter.
I would like to see the details to be able to judge this program on the facts rather than all the assumptions being made but I can not see anyway this will not result in higher costs for everything. I personally feel that before the Conservatives levelled their pre-emptive criticism of the plan the Liberals were more than ready to add a carbon tax to all fuels but backed down because of the unpopularity of the idea.
Face it World, life is going to get more expensive no matter who you are and where you live and regardless of who is in power.
Doug
said
DF in rural Ontario
said
Wake Up Call
said
My take on it is that it sucks to be me in this scenario. I receive the least amount of tax rebate, because as usual the income tax rebates dip in the middle class. According to the costing in the report almost all of the rebate [$226 Tax of $337 Rebate] will go to paying for the Natural Gas Heating my home. Of the $111 left, it will cost me $180 in additional tax to drive my 7L/100Km fuel efficient car from work to home, which would end up costing me $69 more.
At first look $69 in visible extra taxes is not too bad, the only problem is everything else that was not listed in the Liberal Costing Plan. I suspect that every company that pays more for these taxes will just add it to the cost of doing business and mark up tax, just as they would any other expense, and pass it on to the consumer. Nothing was mentioned about Agricultural rebates for Diesel and other costs necessary to sew and reap crops. The entire plan also did not ever once mention how much CO2 would be reduced.
My final assessment is that this is far from a Green Shift, it is possibly at best a green nudge, and saying it won't hurt, is like what the dentist says before jamming a needle into your jaw.
David Peters
said
Shows how easily the sheeple of Canada get led around by the nose and that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth. What all this really does is take peoples' attention away from the real issues and focuses on the phony one that Al Gore and Co have dreamed up for their personal gain
Roger57
said
The same as when we had the NEP. All the oil companies left for greener pastures. Maybe all the environmentalists think they are saving the earth by buying goods from China. All that has been done is move manufacturing and Pollution to another Country. NIMBY. Out of sight, out of mind
RM
said
Defiant of London
said
Here is a simple formula for taxation. More taxes (especially when dealing with fuel) = increase inflation.
In today’s economy we really do not need this. We should be talking about reducing the amount of taxes to sustain our economy.
Bruce
said
However, we needn't worry, because the Liberals will continue to sit on their hands throughout next fall, winter and spring. They'll be lucky to be the official opposition after the next election.
Dave
said
Translink should hire me for consulting instead of giving themselves a heft wage increase.
club rep.
said
Jim
said
I'm sorry to hear all these sheep spouting the conservative advertising lines. How much have the conservative tax 'cuts' actually saved anyone.
Don
said
Who do you think these companies pass their costs on to?
Vince M
said
Terri - Glad to see you appreciate the subsidies for your transit, yet have no compassion for anyone who can not afford to buy a house in the city.
GetInformed BeforeAssuming - Yes, Please do as you say, read it. The Green Shift does not say any CO2 is expected to be reduced.
MB - I wish there was talking going on. If the Liberals were not so vexatious about getting replaced, they could have provided a conciliatory position and tried to mend the discord after their nasty campaign against Steven Harper. Having done so, then trying to work with the elected minority government, rather than scathe ever issue just for the sake of it, may have enabled true consultation between parties and functional committees. The committees have all been about Liberals trying to get revenge on the Conservatives for the Sponsorship Scandal and the other issues which was entirely their fault that led to their fall from power. If the Liberals were more interested in doing what was best for Canada and Canadians than getting re-elected much more could have been accomplished in the last 2 years.
Phil - Proven false numbers, but even if they were not, I bet you like to heat your home in the winter don't you, you can thank Alberta for your heating fuel. On the side, China increased it's CO2 by 2/3 of Canada's entire output from 2004 to 2005, how is Canada's reductions going to help?
Maggie
said
Barry
said
This major tax increase is a Marxist's dream. Surely even a Marxists Moron like Dion doesn't expect Canadians to buy into this joke. This massive tax increase will result in the redistribution of wealth from the wealth creators to the wealth non-creators such as the welfare bums. Again, as I said: A Marxist's aspiration come true; and all using the anxiety/ pretext of alleged climate change caused by man! What a joke!
Wasn't the GST suppose to be revenue neutral? Yea sure, if you believe that I have a bridge…….. Even if the Feds do cut income tax by part or all of the $15 billion tax increase, the provinces will once again increase their income taxes to make up for the Federal income tax cut. Just like they did when the GST was developed..
And, not stopping with a $15 billion tax increase, the extreme left-wing Liberals are planning to add a Cap-and-Trade tax on top of this. Once again this second Liberal tax increase would increase taxes and drive up the costs of all consumers goods as industries pass through their tax increase. Industries don’t pay taxes; they pass them on to consumers.
Vince M
said
The electricity used is coming off the grid - it could easily come from Alberta natural gas plants or Montana coal powered generators.
And if you think anything coming from Alberta must be carbon, what about Alberta's wind farms - the largest wind power generating region in the country? Going to tax power from those?
Another stupid Liberal make-work-for-snivel-servants project.
Jay, Saskatoon
said
Conservatives - stop freaking out and realize that this will be GOOD for the economy. If Harper brought this in I would actually vote for him. We HAVE to change...so accept it, take responsibility for your actions, and move on with your life.
Me
said
Paul on Vancouver Island
said
Glad to see at least the Greens and the Liberals are thinking about our kids' futures.
Wasting more
said
A Real IT Manager in Calgary
said
The Liberals have never met a tax they didn't like and there's no way that the meagre tax cut that professor Dion is suggesting will even come close to keeping up with the costs of buying goods and energy on the market. Everything(!) will go up even faster than it has done in the past year because fuel powers everything in our economy. Raise the cost of fuel and you raise the cost of producing the goods and thus the consumer pays more.
Another scheme by the Liberals to get the leftist green voters aside with them without these same people thinking about the economic problems that the Liberal plan would start. But then again, with the Liberals, it's all about being elected.
Kees Boersma
said
Kris D
said
It gives me control over how much taxes I actually have to pay. If I want to pay less taxes, I walk or bike to work, and/or change other habits.
Right now if I want to pay less taxes, I have to work less! I am being taxed for working hard.
Something is wrong with that.
This tax shift makes sense for the economy, taxpayers and the for the environment.
Darrell
said
Draven
said
WMS
said
Brad Jones
said
Not to mention the industries produce about 35% of so called green house gas emissions and they are exempt. And how will this help people who do not file income tax return but still have to pay for gas and hydro and...
Martin
said
BairdsHotAirCausesGlobalWarming
said
Some of that money could easily be dedicated to helping seniors and low-income Canadians to cope with any increased costs with home heating or to encourage Cdns to purchase more efficient products through rebates.
If we do nothing, the prices are still going up, pollution is going up and guess what the cost of health care directly attributable to pollution (asthma, lung cancer, long-term exposure to chemicals/pollutants) increases, so we'll pay the same amount but in another way (that does nothing to help the situation).
We can tax companies from outside that make products that aren't produced using green energy sources/techniques and support ones that do here at home (I too am not happy with all the job losses in the manufacturing sectors that have been shipped overseas to China/Asia).
Harper and Baird have got their heads in the (Oil)Sand(s).
Dean
said
Keep in mind, he takes in ALL the carbon tax. Some he refunds in small income tax cuts...other $$ goes for varied interests the Liberals want to court (e.g. family bonuses and "Green" projects that the Liberals will decide to fund)
To this middle class voter, I know I'll be screwed at one end and that I'm not in the radar screen to get much of the Liberal candy at the other...
This is a lot like Vegas...the Liberals will ensure that "the House always wins" and we the taxpayers will lose.
Ron Speakman
said
This policy may not be popular, but it shows leadership and I have to respect Dion for that.
Eco Taxes Are Good
said
This plan likely won't be neutral, but as long as it creates some incentive for people to be more environmentally friendly, I don't mind paying.
Also, if it does create a surplus, use it to pay down the debt. All the lazy boomers want the benefits of government but not the responsibility of paying for it.
Tom
said
Amanda
said
"If we don't tax higher to the worst abusers/users then they will never change". I think you need to take your own advice. How are the worst abusers/users supposed to change if there is no other alternative. Instead of whining about cutting greenhouse emissions and saying that we all can by not heating our homes (which many low income families can't afford as it is), by not driving our cars etc... (Hello, these thing are necessary, we do live in Canada)how about they propose a plan that gives us another eco-friendly option to do these things that are necessary in Canada?because until they do we won't stop consuming, because we can't!
BairdsHotAirCausesGlobalWarming
said
I'm sure BC Hydro, like all other utilties would have equipment that tells them how much electricity is coming from which source/line. So yes, if 80% of electricity is produced by methods which produce carbon and 20% are from sources like wind power, then I would expect that only 80% would be subject to any carbon tax.
Your laptop is smart enough to know when it's running off the battery or the wall outlet, so it's not that much different for the power co. to tell where it's power is coming from at any given time.
Justin - Economics students
said
LEARN ECONOMICS, VERIFY WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE...
AND STOP BEING NARROW MINDED
alex
said
Catherine
said
And if there is a inflationary cost of goods and services beyond the current Bank of Canada threshold, the interest rates will increase. Does anyone want to return to the 14, 15, 18, 20% mortgage rates?
Chuck Berry from SK
said
Layton in Moncton
said
Paul
said
TG
said
James
said
Oh, come on sheep!
said
Seriously, does no one realize that these things cost money? He's proposing an income tax break... better than a GST cut (1% income tax break is far better than 2% GST for just about everybody). Anyways, this country has been in dire need of a tax reform and it's not a Conservative government that will give it to us. If anything they'll put us back in a deficit with no way of paying off our debt.
Sorry but my two main areas of concern are the economy and the environment... two things I would never trust the harperites with.
Alex Sz
said
China and India are laughing at us.
Bill
said
JL Castlegar
said
Ian Anderson
said
Joy
said
Biochemist in BC
said
George
said
The biggest shame is on Jack Layton. He knows very well that if he was ever in power, the NDP would bring in a Carbon Tax, just like every forward thinking government in Europe.
As long as the money is used for energy and environmental research this will be just the first small step. At least it means we would take the first step forward, today, and not in 50 years like the other guys' plan.
Claude Bisson
said
BC Nicole
said
Cathy
said
Mike Webster
said
GhostDog
said
Joyce.
said
Why always a TAX.
said
Ban all vehicles that get bad gas mileage. there are no need for big SUVs or Hummers! For those that say we need them in winter, we did just fine without them for years.
How about reducing taxes on home repairs to improve efficiency. Rebates for old furnaces, support to get energy efficient windows, solar and wind power.
support nuclear power and close coal plants! Increase energy efficiencies for consumer products. These are ways to improve without TAXing.
Jim Haddad
said
sboatright
said
In order to fund the subsidies and tax credits for those who expect to receive - others will be paying for it. Since the money has to come from somewhere - it stands to reason that some Canadians will get screwed in this grand scheme.
The middle class will once again bear the burden of a misguided politician's bad ideas.
Punishing people for heating their homes and putting food on the table is NOT an acceptable answer - and trying to disguise a revenue generator for social programs as a carbon tax that helps the environment will not get you votes.
DWB
said
Will he sing Green Berets, and the Green Green Grass of Home for us?
His final song should be a rousing rendition of Taxman.
Geoff
said
And weren't they going to eliminate GST?
Maybe more empty promises and an a new empty slogan will get Canada to elect them again
Roadrobber
said
Norm
said
impartial
said
the plan is good and bad. it isn't perfect. one thing it is without question is that it is better than the lipservice the conservative government masks as a plan. first the conservatives offered lipservice, now they offer cheap, childlike attack ads that reek of low mindedness.
Louis-Paul
said
Canada is a huge country and very far north. We need to use up a tremendous amount of energy just to maintain basic living capability (ie stay above 10*C).
I would consider suing the governement for taxing a necessity for life, litteraly.
Roadrobber
said
Douglas
said
Steve
said
This plan has someone making money, I wonder which Liberal friendly group is gearing up to make a lot of money of regular working Canadians....
I want to look at ways to get green and make a differenece.. how about increasing the standards of how we build housing, or better standards for equipment consumption, etc?.. why do we even alow the sale of poor energy eficient items?.. if we don't allow low eficient items, will manufactures be forced to build more efficient products, and does that make the higher efficient equipment cheaper as time goes on?.. at lest that how I thougt things worked.. but maybe the Liberals don't have friends who own factories making high efficient appliances and other items?...
Dan N
said
Do you have children?
said
The conservatives have no plan to combat climate change and rising fuel prices and don't care. (Attack ads-that's leadership.) The liberals have shown some courage in starting a real discussion on real issues.