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Submarine repairs costing Canadians millions

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Canada AM: Rob Huebert, Strategic Studies

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Jun. 6 2008 10:39 AM ET

It's been 10 years since Jean Chretien's Liberal government doled out $900 million to the British in return for four used diesel powered submarines -- today only one is operational, the others dry-docked and will cost taxpayers millions in repairs.

Rob Huebert, associate director at the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies, says the vessels are vital to Canadian sovereignty and in desperate need of maintenance.

According the Huebert, the fleet's current state of disrepair can be attributed to inactivity. He compares the submarines to a car left outside for years without being driven.

"They stayed in water way too long," Huebert told Canada AM on Thursday from Calgary.

Huebert says the British government was intent on selling six submarines to Canada, but the transaction took three years, and in the end only four were bought.

Former Liberal defense minister, David Collenette, has said the delay was due to fear of political backlash.

"Chretien had always been a strong supporter of the submarine proposal, but he worried about the timing of an announcement when so many sectors of Canadian society had borne the brunt of deficit cutting," Collenette told the House of Commons defence committee in 2004.

Eventually, Canada purchased the HMCS Chicoutimi, Corner Brook, Victoria and Windsor -- but they've been plagued with problems.

On its maiden voyage in 2004, fire aboard the HMCS Chicoutimi killed Lieut. Chris Saunders and injured eight others. It is expected to be out of commission until 2012, two years after its initial re-launch date.

Only the HMCS Corner Brook is believed to be cruising the ocean, and the Victoria needs $195 million in repairs if it is expected to be on duty in 2009.

The HMCS Windsor is also undergoing repairs.

"Submarines are incredibility difficult technologies to run," Huebert said, pointing to Russia's beleaguered fleet and an explosion aboard a U.K. vessel off the coast of Alaska in 2007.

"Unfortunately, the technology is not only valid, it is necessary," he added. Huebert cites the Asia-Pacific region as an example the "huge growth" in submarine procurement.

Japan has 14 subs, while China, South Korea and Taiwan are all expanding their fleet.

Once they are operational, the submarines are some of the best, according to Huebert. Diesel-powered subs are slower than nuclear powered vessels but are also harder to detect under water.

Huebert says it's difficult to convince Canadians that submarine capabilities are important to the country's sovereignty. In the Arctic, the mere presence of a Canadian sub means other countries must inform our government of their whereabouts.

"The submarines are very important for underwater surveillance in Canadian waters, particularly in near-ice conditions for our North," he said.

Comments are now closed for this story

The Widowmaker
said

Wouldn't the money have been better spend on NEW made in Canada subs?


Jeff
said

2012??? Do they only have one guy working on it??

It's time for the Canadians to build the military, because after the US has finally been exploited for all its worth, (all thats left is for their dollar to finish imploding) the rest of the world will be looking to take what we have. We have the open spaces, and of course the natural resources the world of the future will desperately be seeking. Its time to get tough, and that means the social sissies that will say otherwise.


Bill
said

Fix them.


Ian Yellowknife
said

The liberals cost Innocent Lives and all to save money. What a waste of 12 Years. This is one of the reasons they are the Opposition. The military brass told them that it wasn't a good idea yet the Civilians in the Government that never served in the Military told them take these or nothing at all. The British Navy screwed them and we are left with Oil Cans in Dry Dock and Submariners on shore until they are servicable. And some idiots want the Liberals back. The Department of National Defence should be either free of the Government's interference because the Government puts the Canada's people in danger or at the very least have the Minister of National Defence working for the CDS.


Dean
said

Typical Liberal decision making. Cuts to defence, then buy someone else's junk and now what have we got. The decision makers should ride along with our military for a couple of tours and see what problems are incurred. It's not reasonable to expect the best from our military when all they get is second hand junk to work with. Who would want to be rescued with a Sea King helicopter? It is a dinosaur and just isn't safe. I'm sure the pilots and crew of these aircraft are scared everytime they have to fly in them. How do we protect our sovereignty in 40 year old junk? The submarines go further to emphasize our government's lack of seriousness about keeping our personnel safe and well protected. Let them "walk a mile" in our military's shoes.


Mark M
said

I agree, Subs are going to be vital, especially in the far north with the waters opening up! The money blown on the gun registry alone would have kept these subs maintaind and running for years so there is always funding that is wasted that could have been put to better use!


Vanessa C
said

My friends in the UK are so ashamed that their government sold ours these clunkers. And that is what they are - clunkers. Because they hadn't been used for years since the UK decommissioned them and by the time they sold them to us, and they didn't do proper maintenance on them in dock to keep them to at least a reasonable standard.

We should be forcing the UK to pay for this. They bloody well knew the state of these things!

I fear for the lives of our sailors in these. Isn't it bad enough that naval aviators still have the widow making Sea King this long?


Left in a state of disrepair
said

The Chretien cabinet didn't do Canadians any great favours in buying these old worn out subs. This was atypical of the poor attention the Chretien government spent on maintaining our military. As a consequence we have been left with outdated military equipment which is not only inappropriate for the task at hand but in many cases it is simply dangerous for our troops to use. The current government has seen the light and has begun a program to restore our military to where it should be.



Dennis
said

Just wondering how much new(er) subs would cost and who is supplying them to the countries mentioned in the article that are expanding their fleets.

Maybe it would have been better in the long run. I dunno.


GaryB
said

This is interesting. Because the UK went all nuclear in the early 90's they only built four of this class and then retired them. I am wondering where the six from this story came from, probably the imagination of David Collinette. These boats were an excellent deal but our governments complete incompetence and inaction in the late 90's left them in the salt water without maintenance for four years after we had committed to them. This is a purchase that should have been a victory for all of us tax payers but the failure of the government of the day cost us big in the Chretien years and will continue to ruin this event for as long as this class remains in service.


DJ
said

Buying used submarines is not like buying used
cars,they should have bit the bullet and bought 2 new subs.I would not be suprised if they have sails and a mast stowed on board the only sub that is operational.With the amount of coast line in CANADA they probably should have been nuclear subs.


Tim from Calgary
said

I admit I was happy about the Upholder purchase when it happened because I read that the class was probably the best diesel-electric boats out there. But with all these problems, I now have big second thoughts especially about the dent found in HMCS Halifax. Maybe we should purchase some Australian-built Collins class submarines instead.


David
said

Another reason to revile Jean Chretien. He was worse than Mulroney. No wonder Trudeau disliked him.
He is in the running for most ineffective, spineless leader this country ever had.


C&W
said

If it wasn't for Chretien's Liberals this government wouldn't have a penny to spend on military equipment. How many of you purchased a used vehicle instead of a new one because you couldn't afford it at the time, and yes sometimes you kick yourself becuase even though the vehicle passed an inspection it ran into problems that cost lots of more money to repair, heck that happens with new vehicles? So quit this Holier than thou Conservative Attitude, it's making me want to vomit. Funny how conservatives are quite willing to buy military equipment but scream bloody murder when the government invests in other businesses, health, social services calling it a waste of tax payers money, which by the way has saved more Canadian lives than a 100 Subs ever will.


Evan in Athabasca
said

Hi folks,

I agree that the British Government should help pay for repairs since we lost a man on a maiden voyage. As for the sea king, it is a very robust helicopter, but they need to be replaced when the service life has been reached. The current fleet of sea kings have reached the end of their useful life. Shortly after the CF-18 hornets will have to be replaced. They were due to be replaced by the New F-22 Raptor, but the Chrietien?? government pulled out of that program a few short months before the maiden flight.....such a sad choice since we need a new dual engine jet to replace the Hornets.

Just my thoughts on the liberal fumbles....


DJ in Manitoba
said

By the time we fix these old subs we will have spent as much to fix them as we paid for them. We could have probably bought some new ones. Throwing bad money after bad is never a good idea


Bob in Halifax
said

This is one of many reasons why I retired last year after serving for 22 years in our navy.....the CF is falling apart and this government of fools are leading the CF into a neverending downward spiral. Thank god I retired when I did.


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