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Liberal riding results raise doubts on election timing
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CTV.ca News Staff
Date: Tue. Mar. 18 2008 8:28 PM ET
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion celebrated Tuesday after two strong byelection wins in Toronto, but an extremely narrow victory in Vancouver and loss in northern Saskatchewan is raising doubts on whether his party is ready for a general election.
"Yesterday was a very good day for Liberals," said Dion, speaking at a news conference with Toronto winners Bob Rae and Martha Hall Findlay.
But in Vancouver Quadra, which has been Liberal for nearly 25 years, Liberal candidate Joyce Murray beat Conservative candidate Deborah Meredith by a mere 151 votes.
In another blow to the party, Conservative candidate Rob Clarke won in the Saskatchewan riding of Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River by a margin of 17 per cent.
The Strategic Counsel's Tim Woolstencroft said the poor performances may have hampered any election plans.
"The results in Saskatchewan and Vancouver suggest one more reason why going right now into an election would be bad news," he told CTV News.
Clarke captured 48 per cent of the vote in Desnethe-Missinippi-Churchill River, while his Liberal rival Joan Beatty got 31 per cent.
The riding was considered to be the least predictable as the Liberals only took the seat by 67 votes in the 2006 federal election. But Beatty, a former NDP cabinet minister, had been hand-picked by Dion to run in the campaign.
Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz, who represents the Saskatchewan riding of Battlefords-Lloydminster, said choosing candidates can often backfire.
"Historically, I don't think that strategy has ever worked that well for (the Liberals)," he told CTV's Mike Duffy Live.
"When you look back over byelections, or even general elections, when they parachute in candidates, it always creates a problem on the ground. Without that good volunteer base, you're beat before you start."
He said volunteers within a riding have a better understanding of local issues and what candidate could best represent their interests.
Toronto strongholds
In Toronto, Rae cruised to victory in Toronto Centre as did Hall Findlay in Willowdale.
In an interview with CTV's Canada AM on Tuesday, Rae said he was looking forward to getting back into Parliament as he wanted to see Prime Minister Stephen Harper defeated.
"I think we need to build a progressive coalition of people in the country who believe in dealing with climate change, who believe that the search for jobs and justice need to go together, and who want Canada to have a stronger voice in the world," he said.
"We certainly pulled that coalition together in Toronto-Centre."
Rae downplayed suggestions that he was a leader-in-waiting.
"I can't help what people say, I can only tell you what I'm doing," said Rae. "I've spent the last year-and-a-half doing everything I can to help Stephane Dion become prime minister."
Despite the effort, a new Strategic Counsel poll shows the Conservatives have an 11-point lead over the Liberals in support.
The Tories had 38 per cent support compared to only 27 per cent for the Liberals.
But Hall Findlay, also appearing on Canada AM, said the real story behind the numbers is that the Tories have been unable to make significant gains.
With a report by CTV's Robert Fife in Ottawa and files from The Canadian Press
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.
Please Add Comments( )
Greg from Kitchener
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We are not fooled, Ontario will never change, but they cannot hide that the Conservatives are the only Party that gained.
Hugh
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James R
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In fact, I hardly call anything the Tories do a win, because I don't live in a world where winning is the result of how mean, immature, and ineffective you can be, and I don't consider winning a group of people who vote for you unaware of that.
That being said, I don't consider Bob Rae or Martha Hall Findley good candidates either.
The quality of our politicians this days is sad, at best. I hope something or someone better comes along because Harper is a danger to the sovereignty of this great country and no one seems willing or able to stop it.
Conservative in NB
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Brent
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I do think Martha Hall Findlay is a solid addition to the Liberal caucus.
5 years of Rae running the good ship Ontario aground and Toronto Centre can't get enough of him?!
Cribbing from Johnny Carson:
"A rock, a shoelace and a dead dog" (the Liberals had the latter as a party member)
"What are 3 things the Liberals could have run in Toronto Centre and still won?"
bunny
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I don't trust Dion to be a leader. I can see in-house fighting startng up again.
Mark - Fort Erie On
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Vincent
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CTV, G&M, Sun, Global are all conservative media outlets.
Dallas in Winnipeg
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Canadian
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Ah the Libbies!
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It's amazing, this is the first time I can recall the Liberal party being so directionless in a sea of politics. They have no course charted and no land in sight. They claim they want troops out of Afghanistan, and yet they put them there & vote to keep them there. They criticize the Con's for lack of envrionmental direction, and yet Dion was enviornment Minister for a decade.
I thought they would have cleaned house after the sponsorship scandal, but I guess it will take a massive election defeat to bring the party back to one with ideas, as it seems to be just plain lacking...
Chris
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It's sad to be an Ontarian...I've been a long time conservative supporter, but in the next election, I'm voting Green!
P.E. Carr
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David in NB
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Key: SIGNIFICANT gains. How is that for SPIN for you? (Hint: the inference is that the Tories did make gains, which also infers that the other parties lost support.)
The story, IMHO, is the vote-splitting between the Greens and the NDP.
Young & Fed Up.
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Every young Canadian, like myself must vote in the next federal election to prevent the disasterous baby boomers from continuing their lineage of archaic and antiquated WWII policies in an increasingly Globalized political,economic and social enviornment.
Winnipeg Skeeter
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Also, what did the NDP do in those ridings? Their stock is not exactly strengthening. The Greens outdid them (and the Conservatives--surprise, surprise) in Toronto Centre, I believe.
Sober Second Thought
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They won in Saskachewan, the Vancouver seat in Quadra is now officially open in the general election and the percentage of the vote in Toronto has come down for the liberals...
Stephen...all in all a great day for the conservatives
plabo
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Rae:
Want to improve as a politician? Do a complete 180. Open up your eaR and listen to what canadian have to say.
Allan Eizinas
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Notwithstanding his politics, I remember Bob Rae as an articulate and civil orator during meetings of the Ontario legislature. I am glad that he was elected and has the opportunity to perform in Ottawa.
It would be interesting to see if he is able to maintain his civility or will he succumb to the now poisoned, partisan and finger pointing atmosphere during question period in the Ottawa “pit”.
arthur
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RRR from Lethbridge
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Rick
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Sean Calder
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I agree that the real story is that the Liberals lost one seat and very nearly lost the second. I'd call that a nearly 50% slide, and that's not good for Mr. Dion. Of course the spin-doctors will say a win is a win regardless and try to minimalize Saskatechwan as an anomaly.
What concerns me though, is that Liberal leadership seems to be becomming more and more centralized in Toronto. Bob Rae, Martha Hall Findlay, Michael Ignatieff, Gerard Kennedy, Ken Dryden, John McCallum... A Toronto-Centric leadership in the Liberals is not good for rural Canada. I think we can easily look forward to attention being pulled away from the struggling regions and focused on the vote-getters in the major urban centres again as we saw before with the Liberals in power if they get in again.
Peter Hazlewood
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DS in Toronto
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Forget Willowdale and Toronto Centre, they were shoe-ins. Forget Desnethe-Missnippi-Churchill River - it was going to be a tight one for sure (and didn't end up being).
Vancouver Quadra was a white-knuckle result for the Liberals, and doesn't bode well for the party in BC.
Rob
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Yesterday: 4 liberal seats. Today: 3 Liberal seats, 1 Conservative.
Dion's hand-picked Liberal candidate in Saskatchewan was handily defeated.
The Conservatives today have an 11-point lead in the polls.
Bob Rae was elected in one of the safest Ontario ridings for the Liberals, by Ontarians who have a very shot memory.
Ans the Conservative strong showing in Vancouver Quadra should have the Liberals going back to the drawing board, for new priorities and a new leader - which should not be the once-ran NDP-turned-Liberal Bob Rae.
JD
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Shamaro
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Dixie from Alberta
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Sue
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This also does not change the fact that the majority of Canadians do not want an election any time soon.
Mr.Lunt
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Canuck in WA state.
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Liberals will come on and slam harper, daring to compare him to Bush, Hitler and Satan. There will be many "the skyis falling" remarks about the americanization of Canada and all woes of Canada are his fault.
Tory supporters will come on and claim that the mediocre (at best) results for the Liberals
indicate that people realize how awful and nearly communistic the Liberals were when they were in and how scandalous theywere with our money.
A few unbiased people will point out that this is somewhat bad news for the liberals and we won't have an election for quite a while because the Liberals will rope-a-dope in the corner for the foreseeable future.
IMHO trudeau was the best PM, Mulroney the worst by a country mile. However Bush is worse, and Obama may actually be the 2nd coming of JC. (juluis ceasar that is).
Minor note - I heard some moron on CKNW comparing the liberals choosing to abstain in a vote as terrible behaviour and that they all should be sacked. It had to be the stupidist comments I have ever heard ...and thats saying a lot.
Rob
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RS
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hk
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I'm totally amazed at the stupidity of the voters in these two Ontario ridings. RAE TOTALLY SCREWED THIS PROVINCE OVER IN THE SHORT TIME HE WAS THE NDP PREMIER. And what does/have the provincial Liberals done for this province? All I hear from McGuinty and Toronto is WANT, WANT , WANT. Toronto can't get nothing together except create a graffiti law to hire more beaurocrats to enforce this law and grab money from businesses who to no fault of their own have graffiti on their buildings etc. GREAT WAY TO ENTICE BUSINESSES INTO TORONTO.
The provincial government talks about the environment, but WON'T make recycling in Ontario A PROVINCIAL responsibility. They just go along with GTA to ship ALL THEIR GARBAGE INTO LAMBTON COUNTY.
It's to bad that Toronto voters seem to think they are the cog of all of Canada. Losing 40,000 manufacturing jobs in Ontario seems to be ALL THE FEDS FAULT. What has McGuinty done to try and help manufacturers for the long term besides throwing tax dollars at them? NOTHING.
Most of Ontario's voters seem to have their heads buried up their behind.
WAKE UP, ONTARIO.
DJ
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Les C
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Tori
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Too bad Torontonians, the center of their "universe" don't remember what a lousy job he did before.
Right now I am a conservitive voter because it is the party with the best adgenda for the country.
If the Liberal party ever put a candidate out there that I thought was better, I would vote for him/her. If they keep Dion then they are crazy. If they bring in Rae they still don't have a strong enough candidate. The best candidate the Liberals ever had and they let him walk away was Frank McKenna. He did great things for NB and could have for Canada.
If the NDP want to make gains, Layton has to go. They just don't have a strong enough voice. Not enough people trust the NDP party.
As I see it right now, if an election was held now, PM Harper would have a majority.
Looks like they are all gearing up for a fall 2008 election to me.
MB
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Keeping it real...
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When you get a few years under your belt and are further and further away from being weaned on the laps of your left wing socialistic academic professors you will begin to understand why conservatism has a place in the real world where real people live real lives.
Roy
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Gail
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Colin
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Kai Wolf
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It is nice for the Liberals that they picked up seats, but there never was any question whatsoever that they would win in the safest Liberal seats in the country. That can hardly be considered an accomplishment. Ladies and gentlemens, I give you the Liberal Party of Toronto.
Dion may tell everyone that his Party has momentum, but of course he is going to say that; he has to. However, the only people that are going to have momentum are Dion's leadership rivals.
And now the latest Strategic Council poll has demonstrated that the Cadman affair, and the issue with NAFTA, issues the Liberals have tried desperatley to pound home, are not resonating with voters.
The Liberals are in deep trouble. Certainly they are not going to come out and say it, but it isn't going to be a stretch for people to see that the Liberals are hemorrhaging blood into the water. If they didn't fight to defeat this Government before when the issues of the day were there, how could they ever think they could do so now? Just imagine how Harper is going to use the optics of being a minority government that went the distance with the support of the Opposition.
Roadrobber
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Dale Wilson
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The best part about all of this is the poor showing by Diamond Jack Layton and the discredited NDP. Clearly, they are a spent force in this country.
As to the Greens - I would love to see them with some seats, see what they can do...maybe in the November election?
FCS
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Those same baby boomers whose efforts and toil built this country into the free, prosperous nation it is today? Yeah what do they know. Go back to class son and work on your spelling while you at it.
Bill
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Dave
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Martha Hall Findley may be the best addition the Liberal's got in this By Election .
Canuck in WA state
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Likewise, the gloating remarks from Ah the libbies, RRR in Lethbridge, Dixie from Ab, R.S and Les C. were as tiresome.
It simple, this was a minor win for the Conservatives. The Liberals are wisely hiding from an election they would lose, with a slim possibly of a Tory majority.
I do like the whiners yelling its CTV's fault. highly amusing.
Terry G
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Mickey Mouse is their leader.
Roger
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AMC
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Furthermore, yes Rae ran Ontario aground, but that was 15 years ago. People change, POLITICS changes, you simply can't survive in the field without being flexible and learning from your mistakes. Bob Rae has learned. The same goes for the Liberal party, anyone who throws their arms up and harkens back to the Sponsorship Scandal when discussing a future Liberal government is simply naive and making their decision based on the policies of people who are no longer even in the party.
So, yes, the Saskatchewan loss is bad, it isn't the end of the Liberal party it is simply pointing out a Western electorate that didn't like Dion muscling in on their nomination process. Is it the end of Dion? Maybe, probably not. Too be honest I'm somewhat relieved that the Liberal party hasn't given in to the cult of personality style of leadership that dominates the Tories and NDP.
Peter
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Jack
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I consider myself to be liberal, and I read this as a clear defeat for liberals. The fact that the party is 'touting' a victory is equivalent to whistling when passing the graveyard. Should the media NOT report this apparent blind spot the liberals seem to have?
mac
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Devon K.
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First off, the Liberal wins in Toronto are nothing to parade about. We all agree on that.
What is interesting, Martha Hall-Findley's favourite word, is that to become a governing party again the Liberals have to grow their support across the country. Now if you go back to 1993 that is what Jean Chretien did. He used the split on the right and disatisfaction to grow Liberal support into a massive majority. He did the same in 2000.
Today the Liberals are doing the opposite under Martin and now Dion. They are consolidating their support in large urban centres like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc. That is a similar strategy to the Democrats in the United States where they consolidated their support in the blue states in the northeast and west coast. The result of that strategy is that the Republicans have locked up the south, midwest, and much of the northwest winning the White House and in 1994 the Congress. Even with an unpopular President the Democrats could not beat Bush. The Liberals are in the same boat.
That is what all Liberals need to see. Dion basically threw that Saskatchewan riding to the Tories and put his eggs into three baskets. The Tories won it, and they won in a demographic they are usually well behind in - First Nations people. If the Liberals cannot elect a First Nations candidate, an area where their votes should be growing, they have a serious problem.
The fact that the Tories greatly increased their share in Vancouver-Quadra should put the fear of God in the Liberals. If the big cities slowly start to warm to the Tories and left support bleeds to the Greens the Liberals could find themselves in the same position the Democrats found themselves in 2004 - unable to win against someone who should be easy to beat.
Craig
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Let's check her track record:
2 nomination losses to Belinda Stronach in Newmarket-Aurora.
1 general election loss to Belinda Stronach in Newmarket-Aurora.
0 delegate votes in the Liberal leadership race.
1 easy win in Toronto byelection.
Not off to a great start.
Rick in Ottawa
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I am amazed at all the pro Tory comments. These guys make the Liberals look squeaky clean! As the incidents of malfeasance pile up, Cadman, illegal electoral spending, tampering in the Ottawa municipal elections, etc., - how long is it going to take Canadians to wake up?
Dale
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Last time the liberals won the vancouver riding by 12,000 votes, this time ,just 151.A s for Bob Rae, he's a ship jumping ex-NDPer, need I say more, but the real story is the riding in saskatchewan, hand picked by Dion, and lost miserably.I hope the election is called soon so we can rid Canada of Dion and his Belmonts.The singing loosers.
All Harper has to say is "Sponsorship Scandal, 1/4 billion plus, and no more liberals.
Rob
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Robert
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Les J
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This means that the populace is happy with the status quo.....
I don't consider this a victory for any one party....I do consider this a loss for the NDP......and the liberals were 150 votes away from a rout.....
darren
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Jack Thorgeirson
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bckate
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Young & Fed Up
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The non-sensical fiscal policies of the conservatives have left our nation gutted, with bizarre surpluses and crumbling infrastructure and exorbitant student debt, where rich corporations are bleeding us dry and rich keep getting richer.
If conservatives continue to gain seats, we can count on being dragged into America's crusade against Iran, that's why we must vote out Harper and his religious war mongering conservatives. We have a lot of problems we need to fix in Canada and we wont have the money or brain power to do it if we're trotting behind USA and it's endless wars in the Middle East.
John
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go-figger
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Billions have been put into the GTA... there is no thankfulness there, just arrogance...they believe they're at the center of the universe and they deserve more..GTA thinks only about GTA... they're just another version of the Parti Quebecois only worse... you cant recognize them in public... Harper is trying to govern CANADA... when will the Libs wake up and realize that Canada is slightly bigger than GTA?
N
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With that said, I absolutely cannot believe the track the Liberals are taking regarding leadership (still in absolute wonder/disbelief how Dion won the leadership...), and largely because of this, they are floundering and will continue to do so until a REALLY new leader is chosen. Their track record with Dion is clear. This is why they had lost a by-election, nearly lost a former Liberal stronghold, and making no grounds in the public eye.
No need to talk about NDP, since they'll never be the leading power. Although I don't see why we can't let them win a minority at least, to see what they can do, I mean, we all know what the other parties can do... they don't offer anything different from each other economically, as both will do anything to stay in power. But since many affluent members of society are worried about the bottom line, this is not the option either.
So, really, yes, this is considered a Liberal loss. And until a new leader is chosen, they won't be in power, unless Harper really messes up (Brenda Martin, maybe, again, ethical issues).
Nasreen
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RS
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You know who the real loser in all of this is though? Us taxpayers, who now have to foot the bill for a few hundred grand a year for three more Liberals to sit on their hands.
Mike - NWO
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Do not pretend to speak for all youth. You do not speak for me. I am 28 and a University graduate. I bleed blue. I'm think the Cons are doing a great job and I hope they can get a majority. Also, I have many "young" friends that are also Conservative supporters.
You can have your own views but do not pass them off as the views of your entire group. Do you think that you are Layton "speaking" for all Cdns?!?!
Scott
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Jen
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Now as a liberal he knows liberals are voted in no matter what they did. so why not continue the job he left off.
Bankrupting A PROVINCE to get away with it; tells Bob Rae he can do anything he wants and the media is there to protect him from his own people instead of protecting the people from him.
AMC
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The Prime Minister is the leader of EVERYONE, not just the people who voted for him. Anything less than that level of devotion from the Head of Government is a terrifying statement about the nature of politics in this country. But it doesn't particularly surprise me, Harper is the ONLY personality people really know in the Conservative Party, he can basically do what he wants. He doesn't listen to the grassroots, which is where the best policy is written and where all policy should be written, by the people who it effects and who are more passionate about it.
Paul C.
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John V
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Dennis L. Krahn
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Quit your whining and snivelling!
You sound like a little snot nosed kid who has missed his nap.
There are a lot of 'boomers' who pay a hell of a lot more tax than you do.
In closing, everyone stop blaming the USA for our problems; we are a nation of adults with our own elected politicians; it should be obvious we are quite capable of making our own mistakes
Dave Andrews
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Ellsworth Penney
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David Dunlop
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IT Manager in Calgary
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WRONG.
You'll see it in time.
Skeptical in NB
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Stéphane Dion better look where the gun is pointing before he pulls the trigger on an election! Do I hear the voices of his caucus cheering him on?
Colin
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Big deal. A monkey in a red shirt running for the Liberals would get elected in those ridings. Yes, I know the same can be said for other parties in other ridings. My point, is those 2 wins aren't the highlight of the byelections, the close call in Vancouver and a loss in Saskatchewan are. All of these were Liberal seats to lose and they lost one and nearly another.
PS I guess Toronto Centre forgot what Bob Rae did to this province as premier.
ScottS
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Robinhood
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Could not have said it better myself!.. btw, I am at the tail end of the baby boom (get the idea?) and have to say that they were'nt kidding when they called it the 'Me' generation.. 'Me, Myself and I" and to H_ell with everyone else!.. basically thats the bottom line when it come to many Harley and Yacht boomers.. leave it to future generations to pay for our party. You and my kid have my full sympathies. Sorry!
Devon K.
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You know I don't know where you get some of your ideas but the following is something you may want to consider: there is no right to an education in this country either primary, secondary, or post secondary. We've mandated the first two in law but not the last. We never had top quality health care and regardless that's a Provincial responsibility not a Federal one. Talk to your premier. The war mongering is actually a result of the Liberals who put us in Afghanistan without consulting Parliament or even debating it. At least the Tories consulted Parliament and debated the issue.
Our nation gutted? Yeah I don't get that one. Bizarre surpluses? The Liberals did the same. Student Debt? Well that's choice students make when they choose higher education. I'm 2/3rds done paying my student loan and you don't hear me complaining.
As to Iran? Well even the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc have all commented at one time or another that Iran must never have the ability to build a nuclear bomb. The French, Germans, Chinese, and Russians also agree the Iranians must never have the bomb. That's why they all agreed to put two sets of sanctions on Iran.
You have a lot of beefs and some of them are misdirected at the Federal Government when you should be taking them up with your Premier. At the same time you have beefs on the international front that put you at odds with the progressive left.
Today and this discussion is about the Liberal wins and if they were actually wins. They weren't. The reason they weren't is because the Liberals aren't dealing with reality. The people, like yourself, that are on the side of the progressives (Liberals, NDP, and Greens) aren't on track and on message about how to defeat the Tories. All that does is tell the 20% of Canadians who are moderates and independent that you are definitely NOT the guys to side with.
You may want to consider that if parties like the Liberals, NDP, etc are ever going to grow their votes out of the big urban areas.
Frank Buchan
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Condescending attitudes and platitudes abound on every side of your age-line.
The problem with comments like the ones you posted is that they are abrasive to many, without containing much in the way of reasoned argument to sway people. You throw around a lot of rhetoric, pin it to a party, but forget that it has taken decades to create the problems, and that for most of those decades the ruling party has flipped back and forth fairly regularly.
If you dig into the underlying issues, you will find that much of what we're facing now falls squarely on the Trudeau era. Great ideas came from the man (at times), but the execution of well-meaning social policies created a largely unsustainable government structure.
If you want to take the easy road and focus on party politics, that's your right, obviously; and it suits this forum better than discussions about structural problems in our society. But while you do that, consider that the spin on these results isn't the truth of the real facts of these by-elections. You can boil those facts down to: Liberals held onto two safe seats; Liberals almost lost a Vancouver seat that was considered fairly safe; and Dion's hand-picked nominee lost in a north-western mostly rural riding.
In the end, spinning it makes the spin-doctors sound foolish. Just as dumping blame on past generations makes any arguments against their excesses sound foolish. The day everyone under 40 votes is important, but it won't happen until the post boomers take full responsibility for thr future, and stop worrying about blame for the past.
Middle Aged and well Informed
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God forbid they ever let 16 year olds vote.
Timothy
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To think that G&M, CTV (Craig Oliver give you any hint), Global are conservative shows how far to the left your mental political spectrum is. These organizations are at best centrist. Now I agree they're not as openly biased to a left (a so-called "progressive") world view as the line-up on the CBC (and most canadian newspapers); but conservative? Hardly
Reid
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Scott Ash
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Aren't the Liberals just insulting Canadians intelligence by claiming this as a victory? I think so. Nice spin, but nobody can be this dumb.
Paul in BC
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Richard D
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It's time to change your name to "Young and Wake Up!"
In case you missed it the mission in Afghanistan is UN sanctioned and NATO led so we're in this with our Allies as a response to the threat of terrorism. It was the Liberals who wisely put us there and the Conservatives who are wisely keeping us there. No one is talking of going to Iran.
The by-election yesterday was a Tory win in my estimation...the two in Toronto are simply maintaining the status quo. Saskatchewan is a big win with a great candidate. Vancouver Quadra...oh my!! I went to UBC in the early 80s and that riding was so Liberal red it was a joke...M. Dion is losing ground for sure.
Po
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Rob
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RRO
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A dead liberal could win in Toronto, just like a dead conservative would beat a liberal in Alberta.
Vancouver was won by a thin majority, when Vancouver usually votes Liberal as well. A thin win there should be a major warning light.
The loss in Saskatchewan shows Dion cannot hold anything except solid Liberal territory. If that is the case he will get creamed in the election.
Lart from Above
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Ryan P.
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Kris
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Bob in Ottawa
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Ron MacKinnon
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Usually byelections are a place to make a protest vote against the party in power. Guess even a protest vote doesn't help the Liberals. Perhaps the only one it helped was the Greens.
But it makes you wonder what difference it would have made if the PM had spent some time campaigning in Vancouver. He was in the city and didn't even appear with the candidate. Would that have been worth 200 votes and a win? Come on Stephen, it is time to step up to the plate for your candidates.
And, don't be surprised if when the vote finally happens in 2009 that the Liberals lose some seats in Toronto. It is just a matter of time.
JJ
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Raymond
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Huh? The Cons came within 151 votes of taking a liberal stronghold...in metro Vancouver! Nice try, Martha.
Leo
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If the Conservatives lost one of the Toronto ridings by a couple hundred votes, that would be big news. But that didn't happen, they finished 4th in one riding and a distant second in the other one.
The Liberals won 3 out of 4 seats. End of story.
Erik Thomas
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Watch for the next federal election, Liberal strongholds will remain Liberal strongholds.
Sean
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Well, if the conservative take 25% (1 out of 4) incumbant liberal seats and the liberals continues to win like this, then we will indeed be looking at a conservative majority soon.