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Afghanistan vote, budget present election triggers
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Date: Wed. Feb. 6 2008 10:53 PM ET
Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says he will propose amendments to the motion the Conservatives will put forward on the future of Canada's role in Afghanistan.
"You need to be prepared to fight but the combat role is when you are proactively seeking the engagement with the enemy. It's something I have said that we will interrupt in February 2009,'' Dion said Wednesday.
The news comes one day after Prime Minister Stephen Harper warned Dion that the Conservative government was prepared to present a motion extending the combat mission in Afghanistan.
Dion wouldn't speculate over the possibility of an election being triggered over the issue, but said he isn't afraid of going to the polls if it comes to it.
However, CTV News has confirmed that the government will introduce its federal budget on February 26. A vote would follow in early March, creating another chance for an early election.
Harper said he would table the Afghanistan motion on Thursday, and a vote on that motion would also come in March, according to reports.
The move seems designed to ensure one of two outcomes -- either that Canada will extend its mission, or that an election will be triggered because it could be a confidence motion.
Dion's position has been that Canada's combat role should end in February 2009, as scheduled, with Canada remaining in the country but in a non-combat role.
"This was never a forever and ever and ever and ever mission on the part of the people of Canada in one particular place, doing one particular thing," Liberal foreign affairs critic Bob Rae told CTV Newsnet's Mike Duffy Live.
Rae said that Canada should shift its mission to training, reconstruction, development, and anti-corruption.
But there are reports that not every Liberal agrees with the position that Canada should end its combat role in Afghanistan.
"Right now the Liberal caucus is in a very serious division," said CTV's Ottawa Bureau Chief Robert Fife.
"Sources in there have told me, for example, that Liberal Roy Cullen from Toronto has told Dion his position is wrong and untenable, and that he will make up his own mind on how he votes and that he is leaning towards the Conservatives in terms of the Afghan mission."
There is also word that three other Liberal MPs have expressed disagreement with Dion's position, Fife told CTV Newsnet. Harper alluded to the division within the Liberal Party during question period.
Ignatieff rose in the Commons to vehemently take issue with Harper's suggestion that the Liberals want to pull out of Afghanistan.
"As usual the prime minister gets it wrong," shouted Ignatieff.
"The party over there wants to pull out of Afghanistan. Not this party!"
Harper replied, he has little doubt that that is Ignatieff's position, and he added it should also be Canada's position.
The NDP and Bloc Quebecois have said they will not vote for an extension of Canada's mission in Afghanistan.
Dion said Harper told him on Tuesday that he intends to present a motion that will extend Canada position as a combat force.
"I suggested to him if he was willing to contemplate a non-combat role, that could be very positive for Afghanistan. And he said he wants to continue the combat role, so on that we have a big difference," Dion told reporters.
While Dion said he's not budging in his position that Canada's combat role must end, he wouldn't entirely rule out supporting a Conservative motion.
"So, yes, we will propose amendments, we will do our best to convince our colleagues in the House to come to our position," he said.
Dion also said Harper assured him there would be lengthy debate and discussion on the issue before any decisions are made.
Harper met Dion for 25 minutes on Tuesday in his Centre Block office to discuss the Manley panel recommendations on Afghanistan. Harper has said that Canada will remain in Afghanistan only if NATO offers 1,000 additional troops and more equipment for the mission.
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I applaud the budget, even though Health Care and education may stay unscathed. Sadly this cannot last and I worry to later this year where cuts will become enviable. If anything, this provides the Wildrose Alliance plenty of ammo when an election is called.










Comments are now closed for this story
RAV
said
PJR
said
Al
said
Den
said
Bring back peackeeping, bring in Kyoto, and take out the garbage.
Leaders don't cut and run...
said
Paul
said
If the vote goes through in the Commons and if he doesn't get the extra 1000 troops and machinery he has what he wants is to remain in combat.
Enough with the hard work Canadians have done over there in combat. Time to reconstruct the country and leave the combat to someone else.
T-Roy
said
Maybe I'll vote conservative again once you are shown the "not a leader" you actually are and replaced by someone who knows what consensus and cooperation mean and how to build it.
Don
said
johnny-O
said
freedom lover
said
The only reason Canada and other NATO countries sent troops is because the US lied about the reason for invading Afghanistan and and lied about US intentions, and because politicians have to yield to US arm-twisting or suffer reprisals.
Michele
said
Devon K.
said
I think that will show Canadians once again where the leadership in Ottawa lies.
Bob
said
D.R.-Calgary
said
Steve
said
DW
said
So every one should take a real look at what is going on over there and stop harping on the combat role
GM
said
Mr. Dion's position equates to telling the troops "we want you to stay, but if you are shot at, you can't shoot back." Or, "Even if you know where the guys are blowing up our vehicles, you can't do anything about it."
Apparently, Mr. Dion has basically thrown the whole Manley report in the garbage.
That must be insulting to his old Liberal colleage. (Mr. Manley)
Stephen
said
What is that job? the 'job' is whatever the elected representatives of the people decide the job should be. We don't live in a military autocracy.
Ff yo mean that the job is subduing over potentially millions of Islamic insurgents then dream on.
Tim from Calgary
said
Tony
said
Is democracy for the Afghans and the right for girls to go to school... a noble cause for our Nation to take part in, or do we want to be a non player on the world stage.
This way we can continue to watch Seinfeld reruns, worry about the polar bears, trees...
and watch the world pass us by.
Martin
said
C. Benoit
said
Why? Because the previous Liberal Government slaughtered the Mulroney project to buy helicopters and now it's been botched and imcomplete.
Get our troops their choppers so they do not have to hitch rides with the Americans all the time and they can re-supply by air and our fatalities will be almost reduced to Nil.
Retired Vet now employed citizen
said
Harper's political victory on the backs of our excellent servicemen and our manufacturing sector is avoiding any decision on either topic as the fall of government will stop both decisions in their tracks ... unmade.
Thus proving once again that he does not understand the reason he has a minority is because we didn't all acclaim him in, and that Canadians EXPECT cooperation between ALL parties. When you have 100% support you get to make 100% of the decisions! Can any of these yahoos respect the electorate?
Ross
said
Let the voters decide the course of action, it is thier children that are making the ulitmate sacrifices
Neil Shea
said
I will bet my next pension cheque PMSH will not be in majority status.
David
said
How can the Liberals think they can govern if they don't all point in the same direction on this fundamental issue? Dion has no control over his caucus.
Rosie
said
ex-Canadian
said
Patick
said
Devon K.
said
The United States did not lie about invading Afghanistan. The reason the United Nations authorized the US and NATO to go into Afghanistan was because Al Qaeda, based in Afghanistan, committed the largest terrorist act in history on 9/11. They murdered 2,798 people in cold blood. The Taliban was not a recognized government except by Pakistan and they were providing aid and comfort to Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda also attacked US Embassies in Kenya, attacked the USS Cole off the coast of Yemen, and blew up the Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. Two of those attacks claimed many innocent Kenyan and Saudi lives as well.
"freedom lover" should also remember that 24 Canadians died in the WTC attack on 9/11.
The invasion of Afghanistan was justified, moral, and legal under International Law.
Jim McB
said
The left always start their communications by saying "Canadians want" well it is time to see what they want.
Harper will cut Dion to shreds in an election campaign, the guy is weak in leadership qualities and his ideas are radical left. Layton will have to deal with issues like the "the troops in Khandahar boo him every time he comes on TV" as reported in the comments section of this site by a serving soldier. The BLOC will insult the "Vandoos" with their anti war rhetoric and will inflict harm upon themselves.
Harper has tied up the finances of the nation in tax cuts and will be able to skewer other parties on the economy by threatening that they will defecit finance, and all other files are in good shape.
If the Liberals bring it on, they should be prepared for the worst. The PM knows exactly what he is doing!
Steve Daly
said
Allan Eizinas
said
Do not be surprised to see a major suicide led offensive in Afghanistan by the Taliban and insurgents during the election campaign with the largest ever number of Canadian casualties.
The solution to this debacle in Afghanistan is statesmanship, communication and compromise – not political confrontation.
I really wonder if those clowns in Ottawa are really interested in an Afghanistan solution.
ance
said
Their quandry and division over this are more true and reflective of how Canadians are also torn as what is the right thing to do in Afghanistan.
For the Liberals this issue is not a simple "do you or don't you support continuing the mission..." as a party. It is each person, their view and conscience on the matter and their willingness to talk about the different points of view.
Harper doesn't tolerate dissent so every Tory who even dares speak (and there are few) says nothing more than words that parrot Harper.
Greg Crompton
said
The sooner we can vote on what true leadership is the sooner we can help the people of Afghanistan minus all the political potsturing.
John
said
Michele
said
If you wish to quote me PLEASE do so accurately!
I do not know how many Canadians want us there.
A referendum would give us a correct figure. A vote in paraliment will
not, given the fact that
each party leader 'whips' its MP's to vote the party line versus the will of their constituents. You must have missed the MP from Thunder Bay being kicked out of the Liberal caucus or MP Bill Casey being kicked out of
the Conservative caucus for not 'towing the party line'. I suppose you are also one of those who think we live in a democracy.
I am also not against the CF in a combat role. I just want that to be in defense of Canada not supporting the US's phoney war on terror or supporting corporate interests. I do however believe that more and more Canadians are realizing that there are other things at play in the war then 'promoting democracy' or that those
'scary' Muslims could probably careless how 'we' live our lives and they are probably more concerned with US interference in their own countries/region.
Robert
said
JC
said
Daniel, Windsor
said
RRR, Lethbridge
said
Get off your hands Dion and take the right stand.
Lee-Ex Army
said
We must demand our politicians take a stand based on our positions regardless of political cost to themseleves as parties.
Roger Baggley
said
Harper is shrewd. He knows the upcoming by-elections will mostly be won by the Liberals and that Rae and Hall-Findlay will enter the House. He wants to avoid giving momentum to the Liberals.
Unfortunately, the Liberals are divided on the Afghanistan mission. If they do not follow the leader on this issue, they will deserve to lose. The public wants out. Is it asking too much to run on a platform most Canadians will support?
Zircon
said
A former military intelligence officer once said to me words to the following; "This idea of 'peacekeeping' so-called, is the biggest liberal scam going. It preaches well, but the fact of the matter is that we keep 'peace' by threat of force. We have either bigger guns or more of them, than those who would cause chaos. It is violence or the potential thereof that keeps peace. And not just having these weapons mind you, but by appropriately _using_ them when justified."
Whatever your feelings on the legitimacy of our presence in Afghanistan, please please please stop the incessant call for peacekeeping as if if were something so far removed from what our men and women are doing over there now or have done in many major conflicts in our past.
This is not war-mongering, but a realization that sometimes it takes good people with guns to make the bad people with guns stop using them. have a nice day.
Lillian
said
John
said
Louise Fribance
said
mike
said
Brian
said
We're peacekeepers, and peacelovers; you just call that election now Mr Harper!
Hilary
said
Reid
said
Don
said
Don't worry about Dion, he will do the same thing the Liberals have done while in power and in opposition. NOTHING! It was the Liberals that sent an understrength force in the first place, at least now the troops can perform like they should with the proper manpower. If the troops were still there under Liberal leadership the casualties would surely have doubled.
javajim
said
Tom
said
Marc
said
While building a road, let's say we get attacked. Were we supposed to call in the Poles or the US while we get our head caved in because Dion doesn't want us to defend ourselves or be proactive in protecting our investments in the country? We ARE doing the right thing over there, slowly and surely.
Harper has it right. Dion is so out to lunch it's ridiculous.
Ed Wesselius, Guelph, ON.
said
James in the West
said
Sean
said
Alex
said
Enough already
said
Stop with taking all these issues to the mat with confidence motions.
Dion's just sat on his hands until now because he's afraid to take a stand, but one of these times he's going to call Harper's bluff and we'll be in an election.
Neither of them have enough support for a majority and we'll be right back into the same craptastic minority situation we're in now where nothing gets done and they govern by threats.
Brian (Sgt - Retired)
said
So there is only 1 choice here...Stay in Afghanistan to help the people, or Leave. If we stay, we will be subject to attack. So if we stay to help, we have to remain in a combat role. If we aren't in a combat role, we must leave, or we will lose hundreds of our brothers and sisters. My choice is simple. STAY and HELP, don't run like a whipped dog!!
DougD
said
Police in our cities are armed, will shoot if necessary, will even employ heavily armed SWAT teams if the situation warrants; this is a non-combat role in that they aren't trying to conquor territory or aggressively firing at every perceived bad guy on our streets. This is also what our army is doing in Afghanistan.
M. Dion, we are already in a "non-combat" role so congratulations, you won, let's get on with the business of running the country.
RRO
said
You can't train a military if we pull out in a combat role because those troops that need to be trained properly will have to replace Canadian troops.
Canada is already dumping billions into reconstruction efforts as well.
Dion's entire position is ludicrous and his own party agrees other wise they wouldn't be united behind him. If Dion wants an election, lets go for it, then he can lose and the Liberals can pick another leader. My vote would be for John Manley.
Ann
said
For instance while our troops are doing a fine job and should be supported, lets have some support from the other countries who are hiding in their barracks. Let THEM get shot at for a change and let our troops do the rebuilding they should be doing. That would not trivialise the work and combat our troops have done and seen, rather provides for a fairer share of the risk.
Gary
said
Rejean
said
Colleen
said
Tim
said
Robin
said
The Afghan mission as now defined is INSANE because the results are same over and over again: Cdn. soldiers maimed or killed, Afghan civilans die, the Taliban retreat only to slip back across the Pakistani order re-armed and revitalized for another fire fight. The time has come for Canada to change its military blueprint. An amended approach is not cowardly or defeatist just simply common sense. Thanks Albert!
f
said
Tory no more?
said
Stop with all the peacekeeping garbage
said
LUV
said
Scott H.
said
The United Nations sanctioned the NATO mission in Afghanistan because they believed it was the right thing to do.
Lart from Above
said
Unlike Harper et al., Dion is listening to the Canadian people, who feel that Canada has paid a high enough price. Canada is there to help defend America from attack; if the Americans can't prioritize their own defense, it's not Canada's job to fight a pointless war indefinitely.
Today, the security situation has deteriorated to the point where elections can't be held and aid can't be delivered to communities that need it.
A Taliban takeover of parts of southern Afghanistan would be horrible, but maybe this would get the attention of American, European, and Afghan authorities that this is a problem that needs attention, and even if not, it might be more practical to isolate Afghanistan and let it resolve its own problems. If we're losing the war, better to retreat than to leave soldiers in harm's way.
Wayne
said
Alyssa
said
John Neely, London
said
Bal
said
WiseGuy
said
Harper is a leader. You have to be if you want to oppose the majority in the "polls". "Consensus" is the absence of leadership.
John
said
Kevin
said
David
said
Benjamin - Toronto
said
Eric
said
That's what a Democracy is. We elect these people to represent us, and Harper is giving the option to have the 'majority' be heard. After 13 years of Liberal rule though, I'm not surprised that people would be unfamiliar with a leader who's ready to have himself held accountable for his actions... rather than just running the country like an un-removable dictator for 4 years.
In a Democracy the majority rules, if the majority of representitives decide against this motion, then democracy has been served. If they don't, Democracy has -still- been served.
Btw. "Playing Politics"? ... they're politicians, what would you rather they play? Golf?
Josh in Ontario
said
Rob Z
said
HammyJ
said
You have it backwards - the military's job is to do follow the instructions of Paliament (since it is a minority government) and not the other way around. Following Parliament's instructions IS THEIR JOB. There is no other role for them in our democracy.
Hillier's comments implied that the Liberal position was untenable - only if you put the spin on it that Hillier did ! Why does Hiller (and lots of Conservative supporters) think that Canada has to stay in Kandahar province ? Why can we not simply (and it is high time to) rotate-out with another NATO conntry taking our place in that combart role.
By the way, if you apply the 10 times factor to the number of our troops in contry, comparing our opoulation with the population in the USA Canada has the equivalent of 20,000 troops in Kandahar and we have been there for about (6) years. It is time for NATO to replace Canada in that role by another NATA country.
Mr. Dion is absolutely right in the Liberal position in this matter:- that we should. Help YES, but end our war / combat mission. We have done our part. This would be a good thing.
Ray Jacques
said
As a serving soldier, I carried a loaded weapon in both Bosnia and Afghanistan and could have been killed in either place.
Whether you support Tory or Grits, you might want to talk to a soldier as to what we do in Afghanistan and how we are helping you feel secure in your Canadian home!!It appears the politicians will not tell you.
proud military spouse
said
f
said
You can bring up revisionist Chomsky theories about US foreign policy and pat yourself on the back if the troops are brought home but who is going to suffer? Our troops will be out of harms way but don't we have any obligation to help people that live outside this country? Innocent people have been killed but ask yourself this; if you lived in that country would you want someone to come in and help you and your family, or take your chances with the Taliban and all they represent. Well, if the troops are ordered home, the left can congratulate themselves and then have a drink and watch the news, read the paper, have a dinner party and discuss politics, or go to a movie of their choice. Why would we want that for anyone else?
Barb
said
LH
said
Combat for what, exactly?
said
Because one day down the road, the coalition of armies fighting the terrorists will shoot and kill the last terrorist, or we'll pick up that last terrorist out there running free up and lock them away forever.
And when that day comes, the newspaper headlines worldwide will scream "It's Over!" just like at the end of WW2. Yes, just like WW2, which is invoked so often to justify why Canada is in Afghanistan.
The ticker tape parade when that last terrorist is killed or imprisoned will be so huge, it'll make all this effort worth it. All the politicians who so badly wanted to pursue this controversial war on terror will be vindicated as they are able to ride proudly in parades through packed city streets the world over, waving to adoring crowds as millions celebrate their victory.
That's gonna happen soon, right? Like in the next few years? I can't wait.
Danny
said
Bill
said
The Harper gov. have been polling lately. They must think they can win a spring election majority and are looking for any issue to trigger this election-the War, the crime bill,anything will do.)
This is not good governing this is a ploy and this is political strategy aimed at getting them the majority they so desperately crave... nothing more.
JJ
said
Tom
said
AJ
said
But what do I know I am just a soldier here doing the work, and trying to help this country. So go ahead and keep whining to bring the troops home, you only give the taliban more power when they see some of you don't support us.
By the way if we do get pulled out, then one of you please call the families of my fallen comrades and explain to them why their sons/daughters have died in vain!
Asking Questions and Expecting Answers
said
If Stockwell Day had his say in his own government, he'd stand up and tell Canadians that all killing is futile; that all killing in the name of whatever God is an exercise in futility.
Why?
Because the good people will be Raptured, that's why.
If Harper's government can come up with a cohesive argument about why Canadians should sacrifice their children in an effort that the Ministers do not believe will succeed because of a last-minute rapture, why are they sacrificing children who may be brought to the Rapture without enduring the blood, sweat and tears of war that Harper and his followers concede as futile?
Why send Canadians to die for something the Harper Conservatives don't believe in anyway?
Dick Sharpe
said