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Toronto stock market takes biggest hit in 7 years

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Mon. Jan. 21 2008 10:13 PM ET

The Toronto stock market took a massive hit of more than 600 points Monday, its largest single-day loss in seven years, as analysts showed concern about economic troubles south of the border.

The S&P/TSX composite index fell 4.74 per cnet, or 605 points. Last week's losses of 6.6 per cent had already wiped out the TSX's entire gains for 2007.

"When you factor in what's been happening since Tuesday, it's an almost 12-per-cent slide," BNN's Michael Hainsworth told CTV Newsnet.

"We have shaved more than 1,500 points off the TSX composite index so far."

Monday's loss took about $90 billion off the market's value, weakening the value of stocks that millions of Canadians hold in their pension plans or mutual funds.

The Canadian dollar fell to its lowest point since September, ending the day at 96.81 cents US, down 0.52 of a cent.

"It's all about emotion and the emotions are pretty negative right now," said Hainsworth. "Over at ScotiaMcLeod, Andrew Pyle, a strategist there, said we're close to erasing three out of every four dollars we've made since the bull run of June 2006."

In other economic news, Statistics Canada reported that rising auto sales helped drive a 0.3 per cent gain in wholesale sales in November. Otherwise, sales would have fallen 0.6 per cent.

The Bank of Canada is expected to cut its key rate by a quarter point on Tuesday, reducing it to four per cent. The move is designed to help protect Canada's economy from its slowing U.S. counterpart.

Patti Croft, vice-president of Philips, Hager and North Investment Management Ltd., told Newsnet she expects to U.S. Federal Reserve to aggressively cut rates in the near future.

Investors not buying Bush stimulus package

Monday's trading comes in the wake of an announcement from U.S. President George Bush on Friday, during which he detailed a fiscal stimulus package worth US$145 billion.

Congress would have to approve the plan, but investors have been signalling that they think the plan might not do enough to prop up the U.S. economy, which is suffering major problems in its housing and credit markets.

Investors have expressed concerns over the health of the U.S. financial system and believe Bush's response to the problem is too vague.

The U.S. markets were closed Monday because of the Martin Luther King Jr. national holiday.

In Asia, the Nikkei 225 index in Japan closed at 13,325.94 -- a two-year low. China's Shanghai Composite index dropped 5.1 per cent. Investors are worried that Chinese banks might be exposed to risky U.S. mortgage investments.

Markets were also down in India and Hong Kong. The latter's Hang Seng Index fell 5.5 per cent to 23,818.86 -- the worst percentage decline since 9/11.

In Europe, London's FTSE 100 index fell 323.5 points to 5,578.2 -- a drop of 5.5 per cent.

Frankfurt's DAX 30 dropped 523.98 points or 7.15 per cent to 6,790.19. The Paris CAC 40 also took a hit, going down 347.95 points or 6.8 per cent to 4,744.45.

"We would like to know if there is going to be some kind of fed action, immediate rate cuts of something, or will the selling wave continue?" said Christoph Schmidt, an analyst at N.M. Fleischhacker Trading Bank in Frankfurt.

"Because of all this fears and this worries the market won't come into a quiet mode, there's still a lot of action there."

Croft said people should remember that stocks are forward-looking mechanisms and that if the Fed does cut rates, the markets should bottom and then begin rebounding.

"Do have that longer-term perspective. There's incredible volatility, but opportunity awaits as well," she said.

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

aj
said

It's all cyclical.
It all has plus and minuses.
Don't worry. Just work hard, and try to enjoy life to the best of your ability.


alberta will survive
said

Yeah!!!!
The end is near, no thanks to greedy institutions that loaned money to people who could not afford homes in the first place... That and high levels of consumer debts led to massive delinquancies.
Barely a generation ago, people saved money to but stuff. Now everywhere you look, consumers are harassed into getting more credit. Instant gratification has finally found its nemesis WTF???


Sonny
said

The market is going to continue to tank this year and the Euro & Asian Markets know it.

The U$ president failed to recognize all the problems in the economy including poor holiday sales. The Gov't will try to throw good money to avoid a recession. Unfortunately, our respective economies are already in decline.

Business' will have to find new markets to expand OR consider cutting expenses soon.


Roch
said

It might be time to move the TSE to Canada's new financial capital, Calgary.


T-Roy
said

Tory times are hard times. Just less than two months ago Harper was telling everyone everything is fine, heres a bucket of cash (in case the opposition triggers an election). Well no election and weeks later Harper is talking about the trouble in the economy. We've known there have been problems for a long time now so why the throwing around of cash? We are heading for deficits again after just 2 years of neo-Tory government. These neo-cons are very poor fiscal planners which is all anyone expected of them to do right. What a mess. I am sure it will take another 13 years to clean up after another tory government. To make it worse they are neo-conservative so they could care less how it impacts you.


Kanatian
said

Crash and burn.

This is what happens when so much is based on the war of terror industry of the failing right wingers.

This is an economy in need of a serious correction due to very poor foundations.

If the price of oil continues to plummet - look out for more war and alleged terror threats.


LME
said

Calgary & Vancouver economies will be the hardest hit Canadian cities by the coming crash. Those people who bought exorbatantly priced homes they couldnt afford will begin to foreclose & domino effect will ripple through industries in those cities. Those of us who are adults about money, that is only buy what we can afford & be consumed by material obsession & keeping up with the Jones', we will be fine but, the rest of you shmucks, I wonder -- will you ever learn?

T-Roy: the neo-cons in both Canada & USA have lined the pockets of corporations & their cronies very nicely & now the working schmuck must pay for their greed & trickle down economic policies that only benefit the rich. Again, I ask when will people learn? When a neocon shows up pounding his chest, fear mongering & asking to build more weapons, maybe he's not the guy to vote for.

Just sayin.


JP
said

@Roch,
How the heck would moving the TSE to Calgary do ANYTHING?? The market is international, it doesn't matter where it's located in Canada...!
And anyway, you WANT it in a major population base where there is lots and lots of business, and you want in in an area of the country with that good old "can do" attitude.

Vahan
said

Everyone relax. The media has to exaggerate to get the best punch out of a story. A point here a point there so what. The average middle class person has as much control as this as we have control over the weather. All we could do is sit back and watch fat cats get fatter and the governments pay lip service to our needs. How long is the middle class going to take this? As long as the middle class is around to take it.


DavidL
said

It has nothing to do with the policies of the Conservative Gov't and everything to do with the U.S. veering close to recession. People sell when they are nervous about market conditions. As for Tory deficits, this isn't one only big fat surpluses because of a well-run Gov't that understands the economy.


Nick J Boragina
said

It's not the end of the world.
Then again, its not sunshine and roses either. Just more "News, Bad: General"


JB
said

Buy low sell high ?
The Real Estate market is next. Be careful.


Roch
said

@JP
"How the heck would moving the TSE to Calgary do ANYTHING??"

It would present a more stable and safer environment (less gun crime) for stock brokers to work in, who are obviously very distracted by all the murders in Toronto lately.
Also, Liberal-voting Toronto needs a wake-up call, they are causing an economic downturnn.


Mau
said

DavidL says: "It has nothing to do with the policies of the Conservative Gov't and everything to do with the U.S. veering close to recession."

Not really. Harper could offer an economic package that isn't contingent on everyone voting for him and before people actually lose their jobs. Also, under Harper the manufacturing sector has lost 300,000 jobs with no attempt by the neo-cons to help out except for the aid package 3 months down the road on which you have to support the neo-conservatives or to hell with you. Neither has there been attempt to diversify our economy under the Neo-cons and shift trade to other partners instead we have cozied up to the US on pretty much everything including foreign policy.


Adam, Ottawa
said

I have lived through this before... I graduated from university in the early nineties when doom and gloom were the order of the day.
The sky is not falling; it's just a little grey.
Remember, no matter how cold the winter is, there's a springtime ahead.


Walter E.Eibisberger
said

Is it not ironic that the so called experts have no idea where markets are heading? Their scripted advice to hang in and wait it out is now very questionable. Why is it that the truth is kept from the average investor?


Dan
said

Look at it this way, all the stocks are now on sale. Buy low (like now) and sell high.


ernie
said

Fear has replaced greed, sending the small minded investor running for the exits. This is a great opportunity for the institutional investors to pick up bargains while those that bailed have locked in their losses.


PissedCanuck
said

It's about time something like this happens. House prices and the cost of living in general in this country has been too expensive and unaffordable of the late. Let's correct this major imbalance.


Anthony
said

T-Roy you're full of it. Free market economies like ours and most democratic capitalist systems are heavily driven by us, the people. The government is just part of the mix of participants in the market. If anyone is to blame, it's the US banks and financial institutions that even dared to hand out loans to people who shouldn't really had it in the first place. At least Canadian banks and financial institutions have more smarts not to play such a risky move. And let's recall 2001-2002, the US was in a recession and we managed to avoid it because our finances were in good shape and we continued to have surpluses. Regardless of who's in government, as long as we have surpluses, and Canadian economists are still banking on it for this year, we should be able to ride things out fine while our US neighbour tries to sort itself out.


BR
said

Many of these comments show me that some people are actually waking up to the US economic problems. It's a fact that as the US turns, so does the world. The shallow thought that this has anything to do with our current government is pityful and shortsighted. Just wait until all the US bonds bought by China and Japan are cashed due to lack of confidence in the US dollar. That, and probable loss of reserve currency status in the world will make this current scenario look very rosy. This is NOT, as one person said,a cyclical action. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but more, and deeper trouble is coming....


Ricochet.
said

Watch the Dow plunge 1000 points on Tuesday. Bet on it!


Stephen B
said

Once again we have T Roy and people going on about the wonderful 13 years of Liberal rule.

Deal with the facts:

1. Deficits were started by Trudeau in the 1970’s
2. During 13 years of Liberal rule the deficit was ended by a) cutting payments to the provinces which have now put them into debt and b) by higher taxes.



Opportuniy knocks!!
said

As a full time investor focused on the resource sector I am delighted with the buying opportunities being presented right now. This is the time you go long not short on the markets.

This typical over reaction is unwarranted and goes to show you most investors have their focus in the wrong place.

85% of the times where we have seen a massive sell off like this we see new highs within 12 months that follow.


T-Roy
said

Anthony says: "let's recall 2001-2002, the US was in a recession and we managed to avoid it because our finances were in good shape and we continued to have surpluses."

And in October 2007 we went into deficit for a month and should the US go into full recession then we will be back to posting deficits and not surpluses. This is due to the current neo-con governments little game in the mini budget that was supposed to trigger an election but didn't. We currently have the highest spending government in history who has short changed itself. Thats the danger with this regime. They are to busy playing games to actually focus on what they were elected for (not going to be elected for in the next election). Time to put this useless government to rest, they have no intention of actually running this country just to change it to conservatism so we can stomach the horrible policies they wish to inflict on us. Enough gamesmanship, time to actually do their jobs. And that does not include partaking in their own version of McCarthyism.


Regor
said

Great buying opportunity. This is how you make money in the market. An often forgotten fact is that investors don't lose a dime if they don't sell. Panic is the enemy of the weak and the friend of the savvy.


Rob
said

I saw it coming , cashed all in. Now I will be hunting for bargains. what goes up , goes down.


Simon
said

Instead of investing in the stock market, pay off your mortgage! Then stories like this don't affect you.

When you are truly debt free you can weather almost any financial downturn.

The banks want you to pay them interest on your debts and then commissions on your mutual funds (preferably interest on the loan they give you to buy the mutual funds that they make commissions on!)



MR
said

I love how people like T-Roy love to blame everything on the Tories/Harper. This is a US credit problem buddy, not Harper's doing. Unfortunately the whole world is paying the price for it. Very unjust situation.


Lance
said

This is all done by design so they can merge Canada with the US & Mexico in 2010. People need to googling NAU & SPP.


Josh in Ontario
said

To all those of you who say its the Conservative’s fault: if you would read the article, you would notice that the US, the EU, and Asia are experiencing the same phenomenon. Please explain to me how in two years, Harper has managed to take control of the world economy, and plunge international stock exchanges into a spiral, I really would love to know. You guys probably think he’s to blame for SARS too.


ET
said

Gee, only took Harper two years to squander every last bit of reserve, and now has nothing to bail us out. Go figure! People are looking at this like a "correction" or "recession", has anybody thought a little further ahead? I'm thinking we're going in the direction of a "depression". We're probably due...cost of living is way too high, corporate taxes just got dropped but personal taxes too high, everyone's gotten too comfortable with credit, and how much debt has the US racked up in the last 7 years (good indicator)? Time to be a little more forward thinking. Nothing's going to change until the price of oil comes down to about 70 or 80.


Denise
said

So, let me get this straight. The US is possibly heading towards a recession and their market loses 60 points today...but the rest of the world is being hammered to the tune of 5-10% of their total value? Please, someone in the investment community, explain how everybody else gets punished for the blatant stupidity and greed of AMERICAN BANKS????


Nick T
said

I still think that it's sad how we all have to pay for American greed. They all wanted everything so bad they put themselves too far into debt to get out. Now the rest of the world has to pay for that absolutely ridiculous financial policy by the major lenders in the US. Unfortunately, there isn't much that we can do about it.


Owen_A
said

Financial corrections, recessions and even depressions are complex on a global scale. To suggest that they are the result of some partisan policy of a minority government is not only silly, but demonstrates how thin the grasp on reality these people have.

For most of us it is important to ask how does this affect me?
After we have a firm grasp on reality on that basis, maybe we can dare speak for the rest of us without looking... silly.


Debbie
said

Alberta, like the stock exchange, will have its down day too. Everything is cyclical and those of us who were around in the 80s saw the Alberta economy dump then. Toronto is and always will be the economic capital of Canada. And don't forget, this is the best time to BUY stocks if you can!


Scott W
said

Just wait till our houses drop!


Anthony
said

When analyzing surpluses, it's important to consider the year overall and not just a point in time because you simply cannot derive or predict the future trend based on 1 point in time. You have to have at least a year or more of data to make more intelligent correct inferences on what may happen in the future. For instance, a recession is defined as two consecutive quarters (or 6 months if you can't comprehend what quarter is) of decreased GDP or GNP if you want to accurately gauge our country specifically. Arguments based on purely partisan tactics means nothing. A discussion on economics means so much more! When looking at last year as a whole, Canada was in fine shape. With the US downturn affecting the world, it will be a turbulent year but I don't think the government has done anything stupid to cause us to go straight into a full deficit year. Besides, the tax relief offered by the Conservatives was pretty much the same what the Liberals offered. We're only saving a couple hundred dollars a year - Literally chump change a day. We're a trillion dollar economy for goodness sake. The billions spent so far for tax cuts are minuscule compared to the size of our economy and our government coffers (federally and provincially).


Dave in Surrey
said

Anyone who hasn't been seeing this coming has been living under a rock or at 24 Sussex Drive... By this point, you should have limited your debt ratio and have cash stashed away, if not you best be starting today...

I doubt the down turn will last for long, thinking it is a correction... I will sit and watch and try to judge the low point to use my savings to buy low stock prices...

Moving the TSE to Calgary, is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read on here...


Roger T
said

Ricochet.
Watch the Dow plunge 1000 points on Tuesday. Bet on it!

Don't under estimate the power of the BEAR.....it's gonna plunge 2500 points by end of week if our Gov't doesn't do anything besides the talk of spending on new war planes in fighting the war on Afghanistan and sending more troops. It's imminent, a recession is coming due to greedy politicians and corporates who put ALL of us in this mess. Save our economy before we head into a depression.


Richard
said

@Anthony
"At least Canadian banks and financial institutions have more smarts not to play such a risky move."

See the Globe and Mail's story about the CIBC's misadventures that was featured on the CTV Web Site this past week-end.

http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080118.r-cover-cibc19/BNStory/Business/home

Canadian Banks aren't any less greedy than American Banks, just check all the Service Charges YOUR Canadian Banks soak you for Daily in ATM fees, currency conversion fees, debit card use fees, etc., etc.

If you're not seeing any of these I'm assuming it's because you deal with the Bank of Your Mattress.

;o)


DJT
said

Denise...the US market lost 60 points on friday - the US market is closed today for MLK Day.


Lola
said

DavidL: Actually it has everything to do with neocon economic policies because investors have lost confidence in neocon governments like the United States. Reagan & Bush Jr., both Evangelical Neocon Republicans will be responsible for war platforms & worst economic recessions of past 30 years.

This is no coincidence.


BJ
said

Denise....the US market is closed today...


JP
said

AND--who said that the US economy downslide wouldn't affect Canada!!
Just have a look around people and wake up!!!!
Ontario is hurting big time.


John Harding
said

In response to Denise, the 60 point drop is from Friday, the markets are closed today for MLK Jr. observance. Wait until tomorrow, the US markets will dive for sure.

I am an American fighting as hard as I can to get Ron Paul elected. It's a tough fight, it's getting very nasty, even dangerous. That man has been fighting for all that is right for many years and everything he's predicted has come to pass. Unfortunately the powers are misleading the people and most Americans are sheep. I am not proud of most people here in America, they're ignorant and self serving. I am proud to be an American though, the type of American that seems to now live in history. It's a shame.


LR
said

Bank of Canada can't lower interest rates as a band-aid solution. It only delays and magnifys the market correction. Its low interest that caused this mess and low interest is not going to get us out of it. Economies are cyclical and today is not the end of a US led world economy, that day will come but not now. As Canadians we still have a very secure financial sector and can ride this out if panic is avoided. Large surpluses are not any better than a deficit it only speaks to poor management and over taxation. If this goes bust we can only blame this on the left wing governments of the past and their stalling of all conservative policy in the minoriy situation. Mr. Harper can't get anything done in a house that is trying to do nothing but make him look bad.


NoWayJose
said

Thanks, Roch, for your comments! Your a-typical over-inflated sense of worth for Calgary gave me such a good laugh after reading all the news about falling stock markets. As if actually moving the stock market to Calgary would make any differece.

Lorne
said

Great! Please continue to panic and sell. I'll buy some stocks on sale!


Kevin
said

It is all doom and gloom. No gov't has the fortitude to say it's time to make significant changes. We will all just wait for the lack of oil to start eating away at our economoy like a cancer and only then will somebody REACT. Reaction is the trait of humanity...nobody acts until it's too late. My concern is for Alberta; what is going to keep that province going when oil becomes obsolete? You think nations will allow themselves to become beggers of oil? Your product is experiencing it's sunset years. Alberta is doomed unless it acts otherwise it will be another gov't that reacts.


Mau
said

LR says:
"speaks to poor management and over taxation. If this goes bust we can only blame this on the left wing governments of the past"

We have never had a federal NDP government. We have had a moderate centrist government called by the name Liberal Party and they fixed the deficits from the previous corrupt conservative government of Mulroney. We have always had sound economic performances under the liberals. In fact the strong economy which is starting to falter under the Conservatives was created with Liberal Policy. So what are you talking about with some left wing government nonsense? Its the reich-wing which has wreaked havoc on our economy yet again.


Jimmy
said

Denise, you have just proven you didn't read the artical. If you had, you'd have noticed the tid-bit about the US market being closed for today due to the MLK National Holiday. It won't hit them until they open up tomorrow.

I agree that it is sad to see the US have such pull over the entire World of trading, however a few of the Liberal fools commenting on it being Harper's fault need to get an education in Stock Markets before they go ranting about the Conservatives being at fault. Harper is not to blame here, any more than you could blame it on opposition parties. It's not political. Period.

Maybe I'm wrong though - maybe we should vote Dion into office so that he can abandon Afghanistan, invade Pakistan, raise our taxes back to where they were two years ago, and solve the problems of the World Trading Markets.

*Rolls Eyes*


Darren
said

Wow, there are an awful lot of bitter, anti-profit, anti-growth lefties on here. Yep, it's your day to rejoice!
Go right ahead, this won't last, we will be out of this by year end and a new bull will be forming.
It is so funny reading all the anti-conservative rants.
The ignorance in this country is incredible.


JP Levesque
said

The RICH are getting POORER
and the
POORER are staying the same.
The Sun will rise tommorrow and life will go on.



Russ
said

Just another opportunity to buy. It takes discipline to not follow the herd instinct.


Dave in Surrey
said

I stand corrected... LR has now made the dumbest comment I have ever seen on here...

For your information LR, Running surpluses and paying down debt during good times is fiscally responsible... You pay down debt during good times so you can ride out a recession and run deficits...

The Conservatives are killing economies by running deficits during bad and good times... Someone has to pay the debt, and when you have extra money that is when you do it... If you don't the service charge on the debt becomes higher and higher til it takes up the majority of your revenue...

Come on, this is first year economics, and I wouldn't be surprised if they taught it in High School now


Matt
said

"Adding Liquidity to the market " is a phrase we should as tax-paying consumers scream in fear at. Inflation is at the very core of the conservative adgenda. Harper is an economist by trade. He understands that when our fed prints more money the result is a hidden tax on consumers.
This "Boom-Bust" strategy is how Neo-Cons get around not officially raising taxes, and actually lowering them. My dear fellow Canadians, we had value in the market and in property because it wasn't tapped into by the previous Governments. The conservatives did it here as in the states.
Research it.


David
said

After reading the comments on here. It looks like usual Liberalism whining from Southern Ontario..

"The markets are dropping, it is the conservatives fault, it is anyone's fault but our own!"


Les J
said

Thats it. Keep blaming Harper, folks. Ignore the fact that he needs the Liberals, NDP or Bloc to pass EVERY bill.

But, this raises an interesting point. As numerous posters refer this as a neo-con problem, wouldn't that make the Liberals, NDP and Bloc neo-cons as well? After all, Harper can't do anything without their cooperation.




Denise
said

My apologies to all, the ticker on my computer hadn't updated properly, and was showing the 60 point drop on the Dow , but was showing the correct numbers for the TSX. I guess my point is that if you look at the last week, it seems like all other world markets are getting the crap kicked out of them while the US is only getting a light pummeling. How can they mess up so badly and affect everyone else worse than themselves? I know, biggest consumers, largest economy, blah blah blah. This just goes to show that we need to diversify our trade partnerships so we won't be as negatively affected when the US goes through these downturns.


Michael Le Couteur CD
said

Wow, the denialists are having a heck of a time with this one. With the Fed printing money like a third world t-shirt factory, very bad things are ahead indeed. This is just the beginning. M3 Data money supply numbers has been suspended since April 2006 so we have no idea how much US (toilet) paper is out there. That is a BAD THING. If I am not mistaken, Zimbabwe has started printing 750,000 and 1 million dollar bills?!? Shades of things to come?!? Walking down the street with a wheelbarrow full of money for some bread. The greed and avarice that has been going on is now coming to an end. Now all the talk of the parring of the dollars is coming clear. On the glorious path of the NAU. AMERO?!? Why not. The currencies are the same. Have a great day oh great and greedy marketeers. To the average citizen....Good luck.



Roger T
said

I love how all the other new stations report on the current stock situation but yet some how they're trying to reinforce consumers confidence not to worry. Are you kinddin' me, I wouldn't spend more than what I need to live like food. Since every want is only material it can wait but not personal savings. Of course news coverage and the Gov't is going on national TV to try and calm investors and consumers it's nothing new. When good things go bad, utilize the media to calm fears and use it as a PR stunt.

No matter what is said because of today's stock fall nothing will ease investors & consumers confidence
Better to save more than ever now than spend. Rough ride ahead for the next few years.

No matter what is said in today's news becuase of the bear stock nothing will reverse that, since our Gov't is too attached to the US economy. It's a bit too late now and we are headed for a recession.


LR
said

Afraid not Mau. What we can't get is a right wing government. NDP are so far left its ridiculous. Liberals are also too far left although all they do is talk because they have been too weak to do anything but give taxpayer money to their buddies for 13 years. Sadly the conservatives are the moderate centrist option. The hard working honest person who doesn't want to see every cent of theirs squandered in Ottawa don't have a viable option.

Deficits started under the liberal government of the 70s. I would also suggest that a dozen well trained apes could have had equally strong economic performance over the last 12 years because free enterprise always wins out. Plus, they wouldn't have stolen our money.

Its time to buy after an election year and renewed stability in the US the stocks are going up up up.




Andre
said

This too shall pass.
Time to start looking for great opportunities. When the lemmings seem to be everywhere, it means there are many good finds out there.


Brett G
said

Mau, you should maybe read and study Canadian economics and history before you make absurdly stupid comments.
Mulroney brought in the GST because Trudeau (a fanatical Liberal), plunged our country into massive debt. It's fanatical Liberal policies that hurt Canadians. It's the Conservatives job to correct them to avoid economic collapse.
If you did your research, you would see that Liberals get voted in when the worlds economy is riding high, and Conservative governments are voted in when the world's economy begins to worry.
Do you honestly believe that Chretien/Martin were responsible for the worlds economic upswing during the 90's?
Get real. Go vent your ignorant conservative bashing somewhere else.


Kim
said

The short sellers are getting rich off the backs of weak kneed investors. No doubt they are driving this. Nothing wrong with either economy. It's just a big cash grab by wealthy hedge funds.

Everyone Relax....


AB
said

The wealth effect is taking it's toll on all the investors. Guess hamburgers are the way to go. The filet is off the top. Find the BOTTOM!!!!


Steve G
said

Even though I'm sure the stock market will rebound eventually, it's times like this that make me glad I have a quality defined-benefit pension plan!


Bubba from Halifax
said

if you think that after a couple of days of decline the stocks are now 'low' and that you should now buy, you need your head examined. Once the is TSX is below 10,000 the stocks might be low enough to expect a good return on your investment. Stock prices have been artificially inflated (as have real-estate prices) for much of the past decade and a major correction is long overdue.


JDP
said

Les J: Best comment on here.

While everyone is in a rush to blame Harper, let's not forget that he needed the support of some other party for EVERY bill and budget he has put through to date. If the Liberals and NDP had an ounce of integrity, they would have put a stop to the Conservative agenda long ago. But, seeing as how their political fortunes would likely suffer, they held off, and instead they pull the wool over their followers' eyes and feed them lines like "neo-con" and "Bush crony".

The US is now being forced to sleep in the bed it made for itself. $2B/week for the war in Iraq, the sub-prime mess, and the catastrophic debt will be costing America dearly soon. As soon as investors realize that we operate in a global economy with global partners, Canada will be able to re-focus its trade priorities and avoid catastrophe.

I hope...but until then, don't blame Harper for what is happening in the US. He has as much influence on those markets as you do.


JR from Canada
said

Seems everybody wants to blame the people who bought houses they couldn't afford. True, greed is responsible for a lot of this trouble, but I don't think it's the people who bought the house as much as it is the banks and real estate agents who pushed up the price of some "wood", then cut the interest rate to make the monthly payment fit the budget. If the house cost $100,000 to build, and the land cost $200,000, why are we selling (or buying) it at $500,000. Of course, when the house goes into default, and the price to buy is now $150,000 (because the land is really only worth $50,000), we now have the right payment on the right amount of money. Looks like the construction company and the realtors made out like bandits, the banks were the fools, and some poor family lost their home, because a subprime mortgage scheme was the only way that family could own a home. I don't think most of these people wanted to default, it was simply the most logical to get out of a bad situation. So the people out there with no "heart" (and probably don't donate to the local food bank either), think about the human cost we have here, not just the monetary cost.


Greg
said

Hey, Ricochet, many people have--it's called hedging! But, everyone, while we hold onto our hats, remember-- amidst all the turmoil--that the people who didn't bail out of the market in 1929 were much better off for not doing it than those who did. The same holds true today, and tomorrow, and the day after that.
And, hey Albertans, no provincial society in Canada is intrinsically any better than any other, so maybe lighten up about Oil Heaven for a while unless you can prove that Ralph made the oil happen there when the world began; after all, oil is not a renewable resource, and once it's gone, then what?


david
said

You can all thank yourselves for creating this problem. You spent mega bucks on cheap consumer junk from huge bargain retailers like Wal$mart that supply you with "made in china" . And in the process you've contributed in putting millions of your fellow North Americans in the manufacturing sector out of work. Greedy corporations have moved most North American manufacturing jobs to slave-wage China and our middle-class is disappearing faster than the dinousaurs. Yet we just continue to sit back and watch the extinction go on without doing anything to change it. Meanwhile Alberta counts on being the fat-cat with all the morsels pontificating to the rest of the country about its success and the joy of having Harper as captain of the ship. Consider your unemployment downtime as a good time to start learning 'chinese'.


Joe
said

Hey don't get too upset. Just buy yourself a good cook book on the many ways to use hamburger in a main-course. I've made some great casseroles in the last couple of months. I'm practicing on perfecting a few good recipes since I won't be able to afford those T-Bones for sometime to come. I never thought I actually get excited about Tube-steak on the weekends but hey we all should get used to "surprises" to come.


MK
said

Yes, diversify. And quit selling out our resources. We make 40% more oil than we consume, yet Eastern Canada gets its oil from overseas and we sell 70% of our oil and 61% of our natural gas to the States, thanks to NAFTA and the SPP. We don't even have a national energy strategy that secures our own resources for ourselves! Even Mexico has an energy strategy.


Randall
said

The 'economic expansion' here in North America is a mirage. Easy credit has simply spurred a consumer buying spree and home-building spurt, with little other to show for it. Money created 'out of thin air' had to go somewhere and, predictably, it created housing and stock bubbles. It is no replacement for true economic expansion (building of the industrial base)and productivity increases, which provide lasting benefits, without the Hangover.......


Jimmy
said

Couldn't agree more with JDP.

As far as I am concerned, every single Liberal supporter in this forum should have nothing but PRAISE to give to Harper.

Think of it this way...

Dion is your leader. Dion is voicing your opinions to parliment, and when there are issues at hand - like a throne speech or a budget - he should be a LEADER and do what he feels his party & supporters would want him to do. If you guys don't have a leader who will lead, why not find another CAPABLE person to do the job? And if you feel he IS capable, then he should do as you the Liberals wish, and speak his mind about these types of issues. He should take a stand. Call an election, we conservatives are itching for a majority next time around!

But Alas, he is not a leader, he is more concerned about what he wants. (the big comfy chair) Just like the last Liberal government which was defeated when Canada saw how bad the scandles really were becoming.

Just my humble two cents, quit blaming the problem on Harper - when clearly it has nothing to do with Governments at all right now. Not "Canadian" governments anyway...


Paul beautiful BC
said

What I recall over the past couple of years under the Tories lead by Harper has been spending on just about everything for everybody, after all they figured if they played Santa Claus they'd get elected with a majority. Whoops the Canadian people weren't buying being bought off with their own dollars and the Tories slipped in the polls. Now the Tories are freaking out and crying poor. Wait for the deficits to start happening like the conservatives caused south of the border.


Tom
said

The comments on CTV are HILARIOUS:

- people who think Stephen Harper somehow controls the world economy

- people who think "The Rich" (TM) have secret meetings where they decide the future price direction of the market

- people who think the physical location of the TSX has an impact on its operation

It proves beyond a doubt that "modern civilization" is just a sham. At the end of the day, the majority are just like animals: driven by emotions, not logic.

But I do agree with everyone who said that there is money to be made here. If you can suppress the emotions that everyone else is showing here, you'll have an unbeatable edge in the market.


mike
said

This is all about greedy little people who shouldn't be permitted to actively participate in market trading on a daily basis because really, they don't have the money for it. They got scared because the big mess to the south could spread to Canada and now they're running and taking whatever they can get with them. For the guy who was talking about oil plummeting, buddy, it's been over priced for quite some time. You should really look for it to drop a lot. The OPEC people will see their cash cow collapsing because they got greedy and hopefully will let the price correct itself to a more consumer friendly level. For Joe Canadian, this basically means nothing except some of your employers might lose their shirts because they invested your pension funds into risky stocks to try and make a profit. Hard times are coming. If you didn't have any money sunk into this overactive monster called TSX, consider yourself fortunate.


Woo
said

You're screwed. The North American economy is underpinned by the hegemony of the American currency. If it loses confidence in international markets, the consumer economies of North America will tank. Manufacturing from NA is not competitive in export markets. Resource exports are not adequate. Therefore, no exchange value in currency and would look to domestic capacities for market.


Rob
said

This is what happens when you leave Tories in charge of the country. The Opposition parties have been remiss in not triggering an election. Despite their slogans, Canadians *do* want new elections. "Spend and Spend" economics doesn't work. They've already eliminated the federal surplus. What next?


Credit Gluttons Anonymous
said

We were heading into a recession in 2001, then the US Fed got this "brilliant" idea to drop interest rates to very low levels fueling the housing Bubble.
This is much different than any recessions in the past because after years of Very easy and cheap credit, US and Canadian consumers are carrying a tremendous amount of debt with over 2 years of negative savings. The only other time personal savings has been this low was during the Depression. And now monkey see monkey do, the Canadians are lining up to go into lifetime debt by paying WAY more than they should be on Ridiculously overpriced Canadian Real Estate (Alberta, BC, and now Sask). Look for the Canadian Real Estate Bubble to be the next one to pop.


Ryan
said

This is just the beginning. No one knows what is going to happen in coming months. Full focus has to be given to economy as it will be a number one issue.


Frank
said

You can lay the blame on the banks or on the people who took the loans or the builders or on yourself if you produced a product that people borrowed money to buy. The basic problem is all of the trillions of dollars of debt, both personal and business was wrapped up in nice little investment packages that were sold to banks, pensions funds, and invesment funds all over the world. That is why it is affecting the world more that just a downturn in the US normally does.


DCR-Toronto
said

All you people who think this is the consevatives fault have no idea what you are talking about. These things don't come over a couple months or even a couple years. It is policies of a decade that builds to this. And as far as throwing money at private companies...ridiculous! This is a free market around the world. The markets will always move from one area to another. In time it adjusts accordingly. You liberals are actually blaming Harper for a mess that is unfolding around the world. Anythng to get back to power eh? wake up and educate yourselves!

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