CTV News | Pickton guilty on 6 counts of second-degree murder

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Pickton guilty on 6 counts of second-degree murder

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CTV News: Todd Battis outlines the six convictions
CTV Newsnet: Exclusive with Michael Petrie
CTV Newsnet: Stan Lowe, Crown spokesperson
CTV Newsnet: Lead Crown prosecutor Michael Petrie answers questions
CTV Newsnet: Defence lawyer Peter Ritchie speaks
CTV Newsnet: Joint Missing Women Taskforce make a statement
CTV Newsnet: Insp. Ward Lymburner, Missing Women Taskforce
CTV Newsnet: Deputy Chief of Vancouver Police Dept.
CTV Newsnet: RCMP Criminal Operations officer
CTV Newsnet: Journalist Stevie Cameron with details
CTV Newsnet: Criminal defence lawyer Paul Burnstein and police analyst John Muise
CTV Newsnet: Profiler Pat Brown joins group of analysts

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Sun. Dec. 9 2007 10:41 PM ET

Crown prosecutors say they are satisfied a jury has found Robert Pickton guilty on six counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of women from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, calling the verdict a "validation" of their case.

"I think it's a very good result," lead Crown lawyer Michael Petrie told a press conference Sunday. "Mr. Pickton was convicted of six counts of murder."

Some family members of the victims were angered that Pickton was not found guilty of first-degree murder, which would have implied an element of planning and deliberation in the women's deaths.

Crown spokesperson Stan Lowe said the seven-lawyer team was content with the verdict.

"We view today's verdict as a validation -- a confirmation of our assessment of the evidence in this case," he said.

Family members of the victims gathered outside the courthouse for a solemn ceremony after the verdict, some struggling to hold back tears. They formed a circle and held candles representing the women they had lost.

Pickton, 58, had been charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of Sereena Abotsway, Mona Wilson, Andrea Joesbury, Georgina Papin, Brenda Wolfe and Marnie Frey.

Some family members were shocked when the verdict was first read out, moaning when they heard the words "not guilty of first-degree."

"I actually lost my heart -- it was in my stomach. I thought, 'I don't know if I can sit here,' I was gasping for air, thinking he was going to get off," said Lynn Frey, the stepmother of Marnie Frey.

"Then when they read it over again, I realized he was getting all the charges (of second-degree murder). I prayed, and sure enough he got it."

The difference in the two types of convictions:

  • The sentence for first-degree murder is life in prison with no parole eligibility for 25 years.
  • Someone convicted of second-degree murder will also be sentenced to life in prison, but could have their minimum parole eligibility date set to anything between 10 and 25 years.

"(Jurors) had a lot of evidence they had to sift through. And when they reached the conclusions that they did, it gives us some glimpse of what was going on in the jury room, but a lot of it is speculative," said lead defence lawyer Peter Ritchie.

"I guess what we can learn is that since they acquitted this man of first-degree murder, they weren't satisfied that the evidence showed he planned and deliberated these murders."

The jury declined to make a recommendation about sentence length.

Justice James Williams of B.C. Supreme Court thanked the jury, who had spent 10 months hearing evidence and 10 days deliberating.

"Over the last long, long time -- it's a year now -- while carrying out your obligations, you've represented the people of Canada in this very important task and on their behalf, I want to offer you my most sincere thank you," he said.

"You know now what an enormous responsibility it is to judge your fellow man and you have performed this task admirably in my view."

The families have asked that their victim impact statements be read out on Tuesday, on the same day that Pickton will face a sentencing hearing.

Drama accompanied the reading of the verdicts. The courtroom first heard the words "not guilty" in association with the first-degree murder charge, and some thought Pickton had been acquitted. The courtroom then fell silent as it became clear Pickton was convicted of second-degree murder for all six victims.

"It is difficult for the Crown to prove first-degree murder," Wally Oppal, B.C.'s attorney-general, told CTV Newsnet. The elements of planning and deliberation are the key elements, he said.

"We think the jury delivered the proper verdict," Oppal said, and described the prosecution team as having done an "awesome job."

Police arrested Pickton in February 2002. The subsequent investigation of his Port Coquitlam pig farm turned into the most intensive forensic investigation in Canadian history.

The investigation was a joint operation between the Vancouver Police Department and the RCMP.

"The hundreds of investigators have completed more than 13,000 tasks, interviewed hundreds of individuals, and recorded over 1,500 statements," a police spokesperson said Sunday following the verdict.

"If you boxed up the evidence to date, it would equal 688 boxes -- enough to completely fill a large room. If you piled the boxed one on top of each other, their height would be taller than that of the Seattle Space Needle."

The trial began on Jan. 22. The seven-man, five-woman jury heard 128 witnesses (98 for the Crown, 30 for the defence), two closing arguments and a four-day "charge" from Justice Williams of B.C. Supreme Court in New Westminster, B.C., which is instructing the jury on the applicable law.

The jury began its deliberations on Nov. 30. Family members of the women Pickton has now been convicted of killing had been conducting a native smudge ceremony this morning when word came down about the verdict.

Pickton pleaded not guilty to six counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of women, some of whom were sex trade workers who disappeared from Vancouver's Downtown Eastside over a period of years.

A further 20 counts of first-degree murder against him will be dealt with at a later date.

Oppal said the "public interest" will determine whether Pickton will face trial on those charges.

"Keep in mind that he's been convicted now of six counts of second-degree murder and will get six mandatory life sentences," he said, adding the victims' families will be consulted.

The cost of the first trial is rumoured to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Oppal said he couldn't confirm the cost at this point, but said cost would not be a consideration in deciding whether to proceed with the second trial.

Comments are now closed for this story

Greg from Ottawa
said

Consecutive sentences, though rarely used in Canada, should most definitely be used in this case. It would not be fair to the victims families if concurrent sentencing were to be used.


Trevor Pace
said

Something seems a little weird about giving out 6 second-degree murder convictions to the same person. I mean getting angry at someone and killing them can be a slip up for some people. But 6 times? if not more?

He had to at least know he was going to kill the 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6...etc.


James
said

The problem in Canada is that "life" doesn't mean "life" ... The maximum he will serve is 25 years.

Sher
said

... At least for the families, the waiting is over. That must have been horrendous the last couple weeks, waiting and waiting...


Robert Black - Ottawa
said

Such a shame. Doesn't what he has done require the strongest sentence?


Peter from Halifax
said

This will truly be a life sentence. He will die in jail. He is eligible to be sentenced to 25 years per count and it is an indefinite sentence if he is deemed to be a dangerous offender (if he does not meet this criteria I don't know who does)


John Smith
said

"The problem in Canada is that "life" doesn't mean "life" ... The maximum he will serve is 25 years."

This is patently untrue. It's oft-repeated but always unaccompanied by data showing that life sentences with no possibility of parole for 25 years *always* result in parole after 25 years.


Adam MacDonald
said

Definately the rigth decision. Good work for the crown and also good work to the RCMP, likely the biggeset investigation in canadian history and they proved there up to the task...good work.


Mike.
said

I can understand a 2nd degree conviction on the first one (chronologically) and 1st degree on the rest. I can't understand 6 2nd degree convictions, though. I know that it's often difficult for the crown to prove intent on ONE charge, but you kill 5 others and not at the same time, there's no way they were 'heat of the moment' deaths, there had to have been intent. Very odd indeed. I'd like to hear the judge's instructions to the jury on this.



A. Bica
said

... No doubt some readers here will advance that this is a good argument for the return of the death penalty but if we, the people, sanction killing every killer, then every one of us become mass murderers just like them! It's great revenge but hardly representative of a society of thinking people which we pretend we are.



Mike
said

Canada, wake-up! First it was Air India, and now this! The true problem here lies with our 'justice' system. Heck, life in Canada isn't even life! I hope to see some political will on this! What a sad day for all of Canada.


Steve Berreth
said

I am truly shocked that the jury would hand out 6 2nd degree murders. I would like to see the crown appeal these convictions.
The vancouver police should be ashamed for ignoring these missing women.


Robert - Victoria
said

I just love it when the average person commenting on this forum thinks they know what the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder is, and how the jury was supposed to render their verdict. Yes, 6 counts of 2nd degree murder is possible, and no, the first count does not automatically make the other five 1st degree. The jury did an excellent job in exercising their duties, congratulations!


Gerry Merchant
said

Re Trevor Pace's comment:
Easy for you to say the verdict is like, "weird."
Obviously, you have never felt "...the enormous responsibility of judging your fellow man.", as the judge remarked to the jurors.




Dallas Cooper
said

My thanks to the members of the jury for doing a difficult job none of us would welcome. I'll defer to the considered opinion of twelve of my fellow citizens over those of us who know of these crimes only what we hear or read in the media.


Dwayne M.
said

First of all my sympathies go out to the families of the victims. The world of prostitution is tragic and not without its risks and I hope we as a society really look at ourselves to try to come to some sort of grips with this issue. Secondly, I am happy that this case is concluded to this point, at least, and that there were convictions. This investigation was no doubt a difficult one and as the number of victims increased so did the public pressure to apprehend those responsible.... Doing an investigation of this magnitude is not easy and the public may not understand that if they are not in the law enforcement field. Thanks to those law enforcement people that spent endless hours compiling evidence and thanks to the prosecutors that gave their all. The jurors were no doubt faced with difficult decisions here, the whole world was watching them. It is a great service that they provided to our country and to the justice system and we thank them. Lastly, a killer got his well deserved verdict, I think he had good counsel, and he had a fair trial. I have been watching the reaction of families and the public on TV and some are expressing frustration, they wanted 1st degree murder verdicts. But the case it was it is and the evidence is what it is and if that is the best we can do as far as a verdict, then it is better than an aquittal or a hung jury. Now we can, hopefully, put this guy away for a long time and get on with our lives and start appreciating each other more.


Don
said

To you dimestore lawyers out there. Pickton will never see the light of day again. There is no automatic parole after 25 years and if you don't believe me then ask Clifford Olson. He has been in prison for over 26 years now. Pickton will most likely be deemed a dangerous offender and that means an indefinite sentence. As for the justice system not working...it worked. He is going away for the rest of his life.


Theresa S.
said

Although I can't see the logic behind 6 second degree murder charges, I feel the the alternative (a hung jury) would have been worse. It seemed for a while that could be the end result. I hope the justice system has what it takes to give out the absolute maximum punishment possible. Preferably 6 life sentences!


KD
said

This was not the verdict that the families wanted however, I can't imagine how difficult it was to sit on this jury. There must have been a good reason why the conviction was for second-degree murder and not first-degree murder.


Joe Dukes
said

Joe from Nanaimo
Perhaps the jury selected a second degree charge that that was relativly 'safe' from a sucessful appeal, thereby serving the surviving victims and the public much better than the justice system itself would have. YES, 6 Consecutive sentences Please!


Bob
said

I'm really concerned that this doesn't send a tough enough message to criminals in Canada, this ruling should be appealed. The judge's instructions were too much of a burden on the jury. So what if there wasn't a witness who saw him actually do it, there were dead remains all over the place!


charles
said

I cannot understand the verdict, however it was reched by a jury and i respect it. A case this complicated its hard to fully understand what is going on.


Jonathan
said

Mike let's call it what it is. It's the Canadian LEGAL system. Your first mistake is to assume that the police, lawyers, judges, or politicians have any real concept of what Justice is.


RTMS
said

I understand that maybe the first one could have been unplanned, but really from what we were led to believe this guy then went after these women, picked them out and then fed their remains to pigs. And this is not planned and deliberate? I just can't believe that.


Ken
said

Hey Mike:

There is no JUSTICE system in Canada. We have a LEGAL system that favours/protects the offenders, but does little for the victim or their families.

Hopefully the judge will do the right thing, and make parole eligibility the maximum at 25 years. But I am not holding my breath.




May
said

The verdict of six second degree murder convictions does seem very strange. One unpremeditated murder is one thing but ... How many people can you kill without intent?
I feel it would be a great injustice to the rest of the victims and their families if a trial is not held for the other twenty missing women. Cost should not be a factor in a case of this significance. In the event that Picton did not commit all of the murders that he is still charged with it is important to know this, in order to keep searching for the other people responsible, and it doesn't make sense to just dismiss the other cases.
I can't imagine what the families have gone through, but I pray that todays verdict gives them some piece of mind in knowing that this monster will not be able to cause harm to anyone else, and find some closure.


Ken
said

Hey Jonathon:

Not fair to lump the police in with your comments. The RCMP did their job, and then some. The scope of this investigation was massive. The police are just as frustrated with the LEGAL system, as every other Canadian. It is the judges, lawyers, and politicians who should be taken to task.



deb nanson
said

Deb from Terry'sEvergreen Addiction Recovery Services

As a former sex trade worker that knows we are not disposable humans, we have families, goals and dreams. As for Pickton the charges should not have been reduced as the act was unspeakable. So the first voice of justice we hear is a reduction in the charges. Again those women were someone's sister, mother, daughter, aunt, friend...

Alden
said

The justice system seems to be failing poor people. The number of women murdered by Pickton could have been reduced if these disappearances were investigated quickly. Women continue to go missing on the Highway of Tears in B.C. without anyone being jailed for the disappearances.


BC
said

Wow canadian justice fails us again, are they saying that a man can murder 6 people and that there wasn't an element of planning and deliberation?


Vaudree
said

I think what accounts for second degree is that it was hard to tell for sure when he decided to kill a particular victim (or not to kill a potential victim), before picking up the person, in the car, or after they arrived at his place.

Those society devalues are a greater risk from people like him because of people like us. Let's not forget that because there are more Picktons out there.


jester - North Bay
said

quote "No doubt some readers here will advance that this is a good argument for the return of the death penalty but if we, the people, sanction killing every killer, then every one of us become mass murderers"

"If we execute murderers and there is in fact no deterrent effect, we have killed a bunch of murderers. If we fail to execute murderers, and doing so would in fact have deterred other murders, we have allowed the killing of a bunch of innocent victims. I would much rather risk the former. This, to me, is not a tough call."
John McAdams - Marquette University/Department of Political Science, on deterrence



Jason H.
said

Here's a question for you to consider. The media has done much coverage of the families as they awaited the verdict. Pickton killed these 6 women, all of whom were prostitutes (presumably the type who were lower-class and working on the street).

Where were their families when they needed help? Is it hypocritical of them to rail against Pickton when they had the chance to help their loved ones?


Mike K
said

WOW I have never seen so many blatantly uneducated comments posted here.

1. A life sentence is in fact for life with the possibility of parole guaranteed after 25 years. This does not, however, mean that he will get paroled at 25, or 30, or 100 years. Just that he's entitled to it. Given the gravity of these cases, the number of cases, and the requirement that remorse be shown it would be most unlikely that he will ever get parole.

2. While the families and others may have wanted 1st degree murder, that thankfully isn't how our judicial system is run. The families could have wanted an arson charge thrown in as well, but the facts simply don't support such a charge.

The fact that you killed numerous people does not necessarily mean that each killing was premeditated and planned. One may decide to kill an individual once a month. This doesn't by any means suggest that the person was chosen in advance and targeted, that the act of murder itself wasn't done on a whim because they felt like doing it at that moment.

Let me put it as my law school professor put it: you may use the washroom 100 times a week, but that doesn't mean you planned exactly what time, what washroom, or how you were going to go about doing it.

In this case, he was convicted of murder. That should be the important aspect of the conviction. The degree of murder is based on fact, not on the basis that someone died. For example, manslaughter is unintentional homicide. 2nd Degree murder is intentional muder. 1st degree murder is planned and premeditated murder. All involve death however.

This is a victory without question and we shouldn't get bogged down in the symantics - that is far from the purpose of having different types of homicide.


Devon
said

Regardless of whether or not it was a first or second degree conviction, Pickton was convicted of murder and will spend the rest of life behind.

To clear it up, just because he is entitled to parole between 10 to 25 years from now, doesn't mean he will receive it. All it means is that he can apply. I will gladly give up my degree in Criminal Justice if he is not labelled as a DO once entering an institution. Being labelled as a dangerous offender, he will be held indefinitely and never get out. Also, if he receives 25 to life, he will be 83 years old...if he ever makes it that far.

The justice system did its job and has not failed anyone in this case. Canadians should be proud of their justice system. For all its faults, it is still arguably one of the best in the world, and has been modeled after by many nations.

Our justice system gave these murdered women a voice when they had none and he was rightfully convicted.


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An artist drawing of serial killer Robert Pickton, left, listening to the guilty verdict in BC Supreme Court in New Westminster, B.C. on Sunday, December 9, 2007.   THE CANADIAN PRESS / Felicity Don

The 2nd Trial

What will happen with the 20 remaining charges against Robert Pickton?

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