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Home : Canada : Controversy erupts after schools pull 'atheist' book

Controversy erupts after schools pull 'atheist' book

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CTV Newsnet: Joanne McGarry, Catholic Civil Rights

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Nov. 23 2007 3:10 PM ET

The Centre for Inquiry and the Canadian Secular Alliance is calling an Ontario school board's decision to remove a children's book from its library shelves, "an overt example of the discrimination against atheists by the religious."

The Halton Catholic District School Board ordered "The Golden Compass" to be removed from library shelves at dozens of schools after receiving a request for review from a member of the community.

The book, written by popular British author Philip Pullman, has won numerous awards including the Maine Student Book Award and the American Library Association's Best Books for Young Adults award.

Justin Trottier, executive director of the Centre for Inquiry Ontario, is urging the books be returned to shelves "so that libraries may continue to be places of learning and imagination."

"Some of our greatest authors, philosophers and scientists have been atheists. If books written by atheists are banned for not conforming to Catholic worldviews, will the school board proceed to ban books deemed pro-Muslim, pro-Buddhist, or even pro-Protestant if they are critical of Catholicism?," Trottier asked in a statement on Thursday.

"Pretty soon the only book in their library may be the Bible."

The board -- which oversees some 43 elementary and secondary schools in Ontario -- has pulled the book from public display and two other Pullman titles from the "Dark Materials" trilogy. The books are available to students upon request.

Committee to review book

Scott Millard, manager of library services with the board, told CTV.ca on Friday that the review has been board policy since 1990 and that "any community member has the right to request a re-examination of learning or library material."

"We are an integral part of the community and people have the right to ask us about the resources we have," Millard said.

The Halton board has since set up a 12-member committee to review the book and recommend whether it should be available to students.

"It represents a wide variety of people, trustees, teachers, principals and consultants so that we have a wide variety of input," Millard said.

After reading the book, the committee will complete an evaluation form that examines a "wide variety of criteria" including grammar, plausibility, language, plot, etc.

"We're evaluating the book 'The Golden Compass' -- we're not evaluating the author, it's the book we're looking at," Millard said.

A memo issued by the board says the books are "apparently written by an atheist where the characters and text are anti-God, anti-Catholic and anti-religion," the Toronto Star reported.

After evaluations forms are received, the committee will submit recommendations to the board of trustees, who will then vote on whether the book is suitable for students.

More controversy

The Dufferin-Peel Catholic board in Ontario is also conducting an informal review into the content of the book. Staff members have been asked to read the book and report back on the plot, the newspaper said.

Similar concerns prompted a Catholic organization in the U.S. to urge parents to boycott a movie version of the book that is set for release next month.

Trottier compared the recent backlash to the campaign against Salman Rushdie's "The Satanic Verses."

The novel prompted Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini to issue a fatwa -- a religious edict -- against the author for insulting Islam that spurred death threats and inevitably forced Rushie into exile.

"While the campaign against 'The Golden Compass' is a mere microcosm of the 'Satanic Verses' affair, it is still an overt example of the discrimination against atheists by the religious," Trottier wrote.

Pullman, known for his "legendary atheism" in the British press, has never shied away from his controversial views on religion.

"The trouble is that all too often in human history, churches and priesthoods have set themselves up to rule people's lives in the name of some invisible god (and they're all invisible, because they don't exist) -- and done terrible damage," Pullman writes on his website.

"In the name of their god, they have burned, hanged, tortured, maimed, robbed, violated, and enslaved millions of their fellow creatures, and done so with the happy conviction that they were doing the will of God, and they would go to Heaven for it."

Comments are now closed for this story

Joel
said

I love the hypocrisy of the catholic church. First they flail away at the these books as anti-christian and proceed to essentially censor libraries (which are places of learning where free thought should be encouraged.) All the while complaining about being discriminated upon. How would they feel if secular libraries started pulling christian apologetics off the shelves. It's ironic as well that the Golden Compass books themselves are about a dogmatic regime that oppresses free-thought. Maybe it just hits to close to home for them to be comfortable having it being read by intelligent children that can think for themselves.


Here we go again!
said

And who said there was no mix between church and government? lol...Ridiculous! Where is the right to educate and pick your beliefs! Typical religious edicate that allows only what the "Church" wants to be learned..to be learned...Soon we will follow in the path of the good ole' United States of the Church!


Shelagh
said

I feel that it is a very sad thing when a very well written and imaginative work of fiction is punished because of the authors life choices. Are we all not entitled to make our own choices. You will miss so much of what goes on it the world if you narrow your borders


KP
said

I applaud the school board's decision. It's good that they draw the line somewhere and say...hey not everything is to be embraced openly without further review. Obviously parents have complained and they are the ones with invested interest in this. I think a school board that listens to parents' concerns is a good one! I would embrace caution with this book...especially when there is so much controversy (for good reason imho).


Kiefer
said

That is disgusting. As an atheist myself I think it's completely idiotic that a book be removed because the person who wrote it doesn't believe in an all powerful imaginary friend. Honestly, I thought Canada was ahead of the US on this kind of thing.


Harold Prenter
said

Are WE heading toward the Dark Ages again because of narrow minded religious leaders? GOD HELP US.


Connie Embleton
said

No one is required to send their children to a Catholic school...if you don't agree with them and their decisions, then don't send your children there. They have the right to keep to the standards they have set for their schools. I don't expect a Muslim or Jewish or any other sect/religion to carry books that proclaim something different than they believe. That's the point of having diversity. People have the freedom to write and create, no-one should be obligated to buy/read it. Otherwise...it's not freedom!!!


Jon D
said

The problem with the book isn't the beliefs of its author, rather the issue is the hatred presented towards God in the book.

Why should a Catholic school, dedicated to promoting love of God, occupy library space with a book that promotes hatred of God?


Here we go Again...again...
said

We live in Canada, not the Catholic Church. Since when do we consider ourselves unable to form our own thoughts and opinions on a book? What gives you the special right to read it, pass judgement on it, and then decide who gets to read it? No one said anything about embracing anything!

Canada was based on many individuals with many beliefs! I am thankful that because of this I have learned not only about the Catholic Religion but many others as well. How about you let people decide on their own what is to be embraced and what is not to be....


Gerry B.
said

Why should a Catholic school have a pro-atheist book in it? It's obvious it shouldn't. The real problem is the fact that a Catholic school exists at all, not that the Catholic school won't carry a book on atheism. It's a shame our constitution was written by Trudeau and not Jefferson. Publicly funded Catholic schools would not exist under the latter.




Joe Dalton
said

I went to Catholic elementary and secondary school, and I have no problem with athiesm in our country. However, part of the Catholic school system is promoting catholic religious values (duh), and it is the Catholic church that is attacked most frequently by athiests.
Therefore, the Catholic separate school board should have the right to censor athiest literature within its own walls to an extent.
The media and individuals with too much time on their hands frequently stir up controversy where there should be none. Just because this book is not on the shelf of a Catholic school library, does not mean that children cant go to the nearest public library (an resource promoted by the catholic school board - imagine the shock of that to all those staunch anti-catholic school die-hards.) and take out a copy of any book that they cannot find within the walls of their own school. The Catholic school board is not trying to warp the minds of todays youth as certain people would like you to believe, they simply do not want to house a particular piece of literature that flows in direct opposition to the belief system that parents who place their kids into Catholic schools trust them to nurture and develop. If you want you child reading that book, and dont have a public library card, and your child is in a Catholic school, well there is always the public system.


John
said

There are many books in our libraries written by atheists. For a believer such philosophical musings can strengthen personal faith in God. It is the duty of parents to live out and share their faith daily with their children.

Wayne D
said

Why do we continue to let religious fanatics dictate what we can do, say and read. I am Catholic and have read the books in question. They are creative, imaginative and adventurous, these people really need to get a life. Shame on this school board for what it is doing. I have school age children, if my board was doing this I would be moving them.


Mau
said

The Catholic Church here in Ontario may want to tread very lightly. After the last provincial election which turned into a referendum on religious schools to which voters said a resounding no, they may want to be careful as all eyes are now on them and what they are doing. The majority does not want this board to exist and they are handing them the reasons why. They expect to be accommodated yet never accommodate. They are a public school closed to the public. They manipulate the reality that children are actually living in. This is just more icing on their long overdue bon voyage cake.

GM
said

I am a practising and devout Roman Catholic and I consider the decision by this school board be moronic. Please remember that School Boards DO NOT represent the Church.


Wendy
said

I think that the Catholic School Board has a right to decline to list a particular book in their library if the content is deemed by qualified reviewers (i.e. teachers, parents, counselors) to be contrary to the beliefs being taught in their school system. The fact is that the Catholic school system IS based on religion, like it or not and they are not instituting a ban on their students going to the local library to read the book - that would be "oppressing free thought" - they are merely invoking their right not to stock it.

Would a Muslim or Jewish school carry a book encouraging alternate religious beliefs or the absence of such? Unlikely. Would there be an uproar if they did not want to? Probably not.

Is the Catholic Church just an easy target or is this simply because Catholic directed taxes support their school system. If the latter, did we not just voice our opinion through an election?


Adam
said

Are they suggesting that a work of well written fiction is all it would take to turn a child away from God?

Submersing a child in a world where they are only exposed to views that match your own is dangerously close to brainwashing.

Can we not give children the credit they deserve? They are more than capable of deciding whether they agree or not with something they have read. Assuming, of course, that they are in an environment that encourages free thought.


Richard
said

It's too bad that the religious powers-that-be in this case won't allow the children the opportunity to read this book and then to form their own opinions. What is there to be afraid of in this book?


Kathryn
said

If you look beyond Phillip Pullman's identity as an atheist and examine the content of the books, you will see that they are not the simple attack on organized religion that many accuse them of being as a knee-jerk reaction. I suspect that many of these parents and board members have not yet read the books, and I hope they will reverse their decision when they learn that they actually challenge the reader to consider how much harder it is to make good and bad choices as they present themselves, rather than hide behind the assurance that you are simply a "good person." These are some of my favourite books, so maybe I'm biased...


Heather
said

Has anyone here actually read this book? It's not anti-God in particular, just more like traditional LOTR/Harry Potter good vs evil stuff.
So what if the author is an atheist? I think it's time we all asked ourselves, what would the Flying Spaghetti Monster do? Pastafarians unite!!


S G
said

* The Archbishop of Canterbury suggested that Pullman's books should be part of religious education in the UK, because there is 'a place for critics of Christianity in lessons on religion.'

* I suggest that to be on even footing all books with a Catholic theme now be pulled from secular schools in Ontario.


Fraser
said

This is an extremely sad and ridiculous affair. Pullman's 'His Dark Materials' trilogy, of which 'Golden Compass' is the first book, is one of my favorite written works, second only to Coelho's 'The Alchemist', so I have read it more times than I can remember. At no point do I recall 'The Golden Compass' ever containing anything suggestive of atheist sentiments, although at times it does reflect the bureaucracy and sometimes hypocrisy which occurs in the church. I am a deeply spiritual person, although by no means religious, and 'His Dark Materials' was instrumental in my embrace of that spirituality during my youth. If anything, this school board's move to remove the book only intensifies the trilogy's portrayal of the church as divided, hypocritical, bureaucratic, and overly reactionary, a portrayal that for me motivated me to look even more deeply at my beliefs and decide what I truly think is right rather than just accepting everything I was told. I wonder if they ever considered that Pullman's beliefs have changed over the course of his lifetime, or even read the book themselves. That they did not pull the other books in the trilogy seems very ill informed. I also wonder if Milton's 'Paradise Lost' remains on their library shelves, since 'His Dark Materials' is based on it. Seems to me like a reactionary move meant to appease a few judgmental and perhaps even radical individuals prior to the book's release as a major motion picture. It is utterly ridiculous and truly hypocritical that a school board which must espouse the strength of faith to its students so quickly removes a work that might encourage independent thought from its libraries.


whatever ...
said

We aren't talking about a public school here. Catholics are a religion, whether you agree or not, and should have the right to control what is available in their library. They aren't saying students can't read it. If they don't feel it is appropriate to have in the school based on their beliefs system, so be it.

We atheists, as a whole, need to be just as careful not to force our religious opinions on others as we don't want theirs forced on us. I love how we call ourselves “open minded” and “intelligent” when, in my experience, most atheists I know are more closed minded and judgmental then most religious people I know.

I am not religous by choice, but to say I am "more intellegent" or "more open minded" then they are would make me just as bad as any bible thumper.


Here we go Again...again...again..
said

In reference to all the Catholic School supporters...No problem! then please remove the school system from our Government support! Become just like all the other private/religious schools that support themselves! Have a bake sale! You can not have it both ways! While OUR Goverenment supports you, please stop picking and choosing what YOU think you are entitled too.


Bobslobber
said

The Catholic Church has every right to run their schools the way they see fit. Part of that is teaching Catholic values to their students, and that means they can determine which books are appropriate or not.

Besides, since governments routinely ban the Bible, turabout is fair play, isn't it?


Vince Stenseth
said

It's a Catholic school board so they typically do whatever they can to promote their dogmatic stance. It's a shame, though, that they continue to act and practice in ways that keeps them back in the same century as the fundamentalist muslims in the Middle East. Some of us, regardless of belief system, manage to handle the 21st century quite well without fear and suppression of alternate views and dialogue. Book burnings and bannings are so 15th century.


Peter
said

Hey, it's a Catholic School! This isn't a secular place so what is the problem? Seems to me like religious schools would NOT want to advocate atheism ... You people somehow don't understand that?

Remember when intelligent design came along and everyone attacked that because of its so-called religious overtones? Okay hypocrites?

Well, Catholic Schools are NOT secular so what's the problem? Let them do what they want.


Re: Here we fo again!
said

We have no more right to tell them what they can or can not have in their schools then they have right to tell us what we can or can not have in our public schools.


Mike
said

The descision of the Catholic school board is all wrong. While I agree that the Catholic board should be promoting their beleif in god I don't see how having a book written by an atheist is going to do any harm to students who are being taught that there is a god . If there is a god then they have nothing to worry about from a person who does not believe.


Rod
said

The timing and sensationalizing of this issue has nothing to do with the church versus the atheists. It is merely a campaign to promote the book.... and omg ... isn't the movie coming out soon!


IanM.
said

I guess these people weren't successful with getting Harry Potter banished from the library, so they decided to go with an easier target.

Dear Lord,
Please save us from your followers, and deliver us from hypocrisy. Amen.

Craig
said

As an atheist I have no problem with the school board's decision. They are free to have whatever books they like in their schools. I would not expect a Catholic school to have anything but pro-religious books anyway.

They are not censoring anyone, the book would be free to view at a bookstore or public library.


Just Me
said

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw:

God made me an atheist.
Who are you to question his wisdom?


Kerri
said

I have never read this book...but guess what! I will now! I think the author Pullman is smiling right about now!


lrw
said

I cannot believe Athiests have anything to say about this in anyway...how many books have been removed due to religious content? The shoe doesn't fit very well on the other foot does it?


DStack
said

Good for the school board. I expect the people in charge of my children's school to exercise moral and intellectual leadership in reviewing the material that my children have access to in the school library, even if their decisions are not popular with some of the devote secularists. If you do not like the leadership decisions made then run for school board. It's called democracy. Besides, his religion-bashing is legitimate reason for his material to be removed from public and Catholic schools.

Jim
said

As an individual who's belief system is largely Christian, and who went to a Catholic school, I am disgusted by this Board's actions. Christ taught tolerance for all views, yet most Catholics have none for any but their own.

They have butchered millions throughout the last 1,500 years or so for failing to accept Catholic beliefs, or for daring to question those beliefs. This banning is just a small part of that belief system.


Nina
said

Focus all those of you so "up-in-arms" - it's been removed from the libraries in some CATHOLIC schools, not the ENTIRE FREE WORLD for pete's sake. Get a grip - you want to read it and make it available to you and yours, FINE - find it in your local library or book store...or is that SO inconvenient for you?


Duane
said

Perhaps Justin Trottier, executive director of the Centre for Inquiry Ontario could educate us on who these noteworthy scientist are, as they do not include Einstein, Newton, Kepler, Kelvin, galileo, Copernicus, Pasteur, should I continue. I have in my personal library a hardcover copy of "origin of species", made available to my children, that are professed Christians. Parents do your job and teach your children truth, perhaps read yourself!

Rob
said

Is the Catholic Church's faith in its young members so weak that it must censor any opposing view point, for fear that it's young members might otherwise stray from the flock?




kayak
said

It is amazing how all this gets right back into the old we/they argument. I, personally was born catholic but have never practiced. I consider myself atheist. I can understand the argument on both sides - and both smack of intolerance. One intolerant towards book banning and one intolerant toward and different religious view (or lack of religious view). How similar both sides seem when viewed from afar.

I guess my question is this: If Catholicism is based on faith, can that faith not survive a simple literary challenge or can it only exist in the absence of any other choice?


Kevin
said

I find it sad in this day and age that a group of supposed educated school board officials can make a knee-jerk reaction based on a author's religious views. I don't have a issue with the catholic school board banning the book, I just think they should read it first. These types of reactions teach our youth to react first, think later... Which is opposite to most progressive societies.


Bob
said

The people who banned this book have now given it so much publicity that many who would not have read it, will now want to see what it is all about. They have probably caused more of their students to read it. The best way to sell something is, sometimes, to ban it. What are catholics afraid of - free thought.


demokrat
said

What other books have been banned or rejected for Catholic school libraries?

How do we build a tolerant society when some children are segregated by their parents' religion and taught that the 'others' are morally 'lacking'?

Why do we pay for the right of one religion to pass condescending views on the majority - and still be favoured with tax money from that 'unwashed'?

Real protection from dangerous thoughts is to understand what the options are.

And this is why...
said

And this is why there shouldn't be public funding of a religious institution. People think because their tax money is supporting Catholic schools, they deserve a say in how they are run. I say cancel all public funding of religious institutions and allow tax-payers fair input on how their dollars are spent. We don't take exception to the way Muslim, Jewish or other religious schools are run - because we don't pay for them! Our kids will think for themselves anyway and rebel against what authority dictates if they feel inclined.


Abdul Wagner
said

Of course they would want to pull the books they are brilliant and more relevant than the bible to modern society.

Religions have to create a vacuum of ignorance to insure continued indoctrination of children into their dysfunctional and ill planned religion. That is why all of them ban or discredit any information that is contrary to their hodge podge faith.

Seriously
said

I can't believe this is still actually going on. Censorship breeds ignorance, I really am at a loss to understand how trying to prevent children from reading a novel can be justified as a positive step. Children are much more intelligent than we seem to give them credit for, why not let them think for themselves and decide what they think and want out of their lives?


Ron
said

I find it laughable that Trottier would voice such vocal outrage at "an overt example of the discrimination against atheists by the religious."
Atheist have for years been persecuting people of faith. Examples, removal of Christmas trees and Creches, Menorahs, Prayer in School, any expressions of faith in public.
I wonder if the "greatest people" he is refering to include Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Robespierre, Menegele and Joseph McCarthy. Perhaps he has forgoten that many of the things western civilzation have enjoyed the benefits of, are as a result of people of faith who have put their faith into action.


Don
said

I'm not sure why everything is this world has to be black or white. The fact is most things are various shades of grey! I firmly believe that literature of all sorts should not be banned. However, that does not mean that all books should be available to children of all ages. I agree that if there are those who feel that the book contradicts their faith then it should actually be included in religion classes at a grade level at which students are capable of properly weighing the views in the book with their own. Obviously if the content is truly controversial then I certainly do not want my six year old reading it. However, I would encourage my teenage daughter to do so and then discuss it with me. If the content is not controversial and only the religious beliefs of the author then it should be left on the shelves.

Finally, regardless of my views, I do believe the Catholic Board does has the right to remove the book from the school libraries in light of parental concerns. Any religious based school system, regardless of the debate over funding, exists because parents want their children to attend these schools.
It's somewhat unfortunate but it is reality.


Tim
said

Why shouldn't catholic schools be allowed to uphold catholic beliefs? If you don't like it, send your kids to a public school.

The problem isn't that the book is written by an atheist. The problem is that it is written to undermine belief in God and to promote atheistic views in children. Why should a catholic school support that?


RIley
said

Some of the anti-religious comments here astound me.

FYI: Its a CATHOLIC School Board! They should have the freedom to have whatever literature they want in their schools!

If you disagree about Catholic schools being funded-thats a different issue.

But as Catholic schools they should have free will over what they distribute.

Do we allow books of hatred in our libraries? No.

Its always different when people hate Christianity though, isn't it? You can spew hate of Christianity but not anything else.

What a world we live in.

Our Silent Christian Majority needs to WAKE UP!


Protestant Dee
said

I think that people need to start making informed arguments on this issue rather than simply using it to bash the Catholic Church or Christianity--as is seen by many of the comments in this discussion. I don't necessarily agree with the authorities removing this book from its libraries, however, why should an organization/school board be required to put a book on its shelves which is blatantly against its beliefs? It is the Catholic school board who is responsible for their schools' curriculum, therefore, they are allowed to shape their students' thinking in the way they want to. Is this not how the secular school curriculum is taught all across the country? They also include and exclude material based on the way they want to shape their students thinking (this is what school is all about). If you don't like how the Catholic schools are teaching kids, then don't send your kids there and mind your own business.

T Boyle
said

This is another deplorable example as to why sectarian schools must be abolished. While not as cruel as the medieval persecutions - after all, the board is not calling for Mr. Pullman to be burned at the stake - the state of mind is the same. It is the belief that those not paying appropriate homage to the designated deity are dangerous and the conviction that they need be coercively silenced if they dare attempt to express themselves. It is beyond bizarre that in this age and in our society we should be suffering the bannishment of books because of the religious beliefs of the author.

Colin Pritchard
said

I'm torn with this debate. It's not like the book was pulled from public school libraries. We are talking about a Catholic school board here. Part of their mandate is to promote their 'flavor' of God. That being said, the book is hardly anti-religion, and the personal opinions of the author (probably quoted out of context) on religion are irrelevant. All this will do is increase ticket sales for the upcoming movie. I know I'll be taking my daughter (and she attends Catholic school).


bruno
said

I agree that they should censor any books that they deem to be anti-Catholic. If they want to oppress their student's minds, and parents still want to send them there, fine. However, they should not expect funding from a secular state.


Saul Ramos
said

The Catholic Church never learns. Their actions only generate publcity for this book and will no doubt encourage a lot of people to go out and buy it.

Contrary to the church's belief, we no longer live in the stone age.

GWST
said

Seeing as the book was in a Catholic school, I agree it should be pulled of the shelf. I see what people are saying when the book should be left and people should be able to choose what to believe. But at the same time, if that is the case, than I believe that in the classroom the same rule should apply. So when it comes to the science classes, all options should be presented- or none at all. When I attended school, evalution was presented - while creation was quickly brushed over. I think all should be presented EQUALLY, or NONE at all. Then people will REALLY be able to choose what they want to believe.


PJB
said

Also, it's pretty worth noting that this book takes place in a parallel universe where there are among other things talking polar bears, and where everyone's soul tails around behind them as a little animal friend. It is a complete fantasy.

If the power-mad, immoral theocracy depicted therein smacks of the Catholic church, well, any resemblance is purely incidental, as they say.


Sandy
said

We're talking about Catholic schools. We're not talking about banning the book at every PUBLIC library in the world. Catholic schools are private schools and they have the right to set rules according to their beliefs. Why would you send your kids to Catholic school if: 1) You're not Catholic and 2) You don't agree with the beliefs? The reason they're banning the books is because, PARENTS have complained and sent letters. If this was a case of banning the books from PUBLIC libraries, then that's another story.


Ottawa Man
said

Everyone is entitled to his/her own choices BUT the Catholic and other Apostolic Churches have a responsibility toward her sons and daughters. The Church TOO is entitled to protect young children from bad teachings.

Michael
said

Let's not make any compromises to the actual truth behind Pullman's book. The Catholic School board in question did not remove the book because Pullman is an athiest, it removed the book because the book itself is an attack on Christianity and Catholicism. Think what you will about Christianity and religion, however, can you fault the board for removing a book that is blatantly anti-Catholic? Pullman himself wrote the book out of his disgust of C.S. Lewis' Narnia series. Pullman himself is also an avowed opponent of Christianity in general. Would we not sympathize with a Jewish school, for example, for not stocking a book that was an affront to its faith? So, let's be fair-minded about this regardless of your faith or lack of it.


Nick G
said

I would like to express my profound thanks to the Halton Catholic District School Board. I just ordered the entire set "His Dark Materials" for my kids and myself. Great advertising!!!


Bic
said

For people unaware of Mr. Pullman's beliefs, he is a dedicated atheist who has acknowledged that one of his motivations for writing this series was his dislike for C.S. Lewis's Narnia series which he believes is too pro-God.

He has also self described his novels as "My books are about killing God".

While this doesn't affect whether or not his stories are a good read or interesting it does, understandably, give justification for a religious school board to remove them from their libraries.


PhD
said

If Catholic schools want the privilege of ignorance and intolerance then they should be privately funded. I do not object to their right to their religion, but nor do I wish to pay for promotion of beliefs antithetical to my own (as I am sure they would readily agree if the tables were turned).

P.S. Duane, scientists should be agnostic -- that is they should question everything, any other stance is biased and prejudiced.


John Cassidy
said

I have four children at Catholic schools. I attended only Catholic schools as has everyone in my family. Censorship is not part of the Catholic faith. It is a pity to see that the educators in Halton have forgotten their own faith. I will not allow this to happen in Niagara.


Bill Rosmus
said

They were pulled from the bookshelves of a religious school board. Duh!?

The same atheists complaining here would freak out if they were told they have to have religious books put on their bookshelves. Nice double standard twits.

I really hate when atheists push their brand of religion on everyone else. And it is a religion the way some get so fanatical about it. Canada was founded by followers of the Christian faith and became a very good country based on the morals of that faith. Yes there were some within it that did bad things. But stop trashing everyone who believes, just because of the actions of a few.

By the way, there are quite a few atheists who did a lot of very bad things in the name of trying to shoot down religion. The Communist Soviet Union for a start (can you say Stalin et al?). How many were sent to death camps or disappeared for religious teaching etc? Stop spouting the same old crap about how so many people died in the name of religion. We're talking about humans. If they didn't have that excuse, they would find another reason to fight wars. People are the most competitive animals on earth. It's why we hold the position we do over all the other animals.

By the way, I don't go to church and am not even baptised. But I think atheists have no more right to slag the religious as vice versa. Each person's beliefs are their own. You actions and how you treat others is what is important.


Duane
said

My dearest PhD, a good scientist looks only for truth, and appears as though if you have a base of truth, it's easier to find true science, not junk. Most everything you enjoy today as modern technology is based on some portion of great Christian men. With your phobia of God, you might wish to restart a revolution similar to the unsuccessful french one in the 18th century. Everything in life has bias. Even your pet that was created by God.

Antisaint
said

Children have the right to make their own choices about what they believe, and not have it dictated to them, otherwise it is brainwashing. If religion is the truth then allow them to discover this for themselves (or are you afraid they may have a differing opinion when given all the information?)

RIley, your "Silent Christian Majority" does not exist, it is a figment of your imagination (like God). Most people today in Canada are secular, like it or not.

Ron, here are some more good examples of the Catholic Church putting "faith in to action" like the Crusades or the Pope proscribing the use of condoms -- which many would identify as crimes against humanity.


cdb
said

As an atheist I absolutely support the Catholic school board's right to pull this book - SO LONG AS THEY AREN'T FUNDED WITH PUBLIC MONEY!

I'd be overjoyed if Ontario reversed course and removed funding for all but the public school system.


confused.
said

Why is everyone coming down on this religion? The article says the request came from a member of the public. No one would be up in arms if this was a race based school pulling a book because some author does not believe there are different races.


Duane
said

Why is it some obscure writer would try to liken himself to salmon Rushdie or Cs lewis, Pullman is neither, nor does he have a good grasp on history, if you wish to have this misguided individual influencing your children out of hatred against credible great men, do so at the peril of your children. hatred is the intollerance that denies freedom, truth will allways set free.


Ashley George
said

Public or private? Stop funding private schools with public funds.



Brett G
said

So anyone who believes in God now is a Fanatic? A Radical? An Extremist?
Get real. I think it's the other way around.
One camp teaches love and forgiveness, respect and humility. The other teaches nothing, only looking to try and destroy the beliefs of others. Screaming bloody murder and the end of world via Nazi-esque fanaticism, when a religious organization exercise's it's rights and freedoms in this country.
If a religious organization doesn't want an atheist book in their library, what does that have to do with you atheists anyways?
What's next... you going to ask Churches to denounce God and ban Bibles and Korans?
Radical atheist extremists always seem to get fanatical when it comes to religious freedoms.


The Scientist
said

I was baptized and confirmed catholic and later made my choice in my own beliefs. All children should have this opportunity, and censorship should not prevent them from acquiring the necessary information to make a decision such as this. Doing so would be doing an injustice to children. The catholic school board is a PUBLICLY funded institution. If they can't be accommodating to the public then they shouldn't be funded by them.


George W.Wexler M.D.
said

Whether right or wrong, it illustrates the persistance of "archaic and maleficent catholic dogma" characterized by a)the dark ages, b)the existence of a religious terror organization called "the Spanish Inquisition",c)the perpetuation of scientific errors and outright lies leading to incarceration or murder of great scientists,characterized as heretics,(i.e.Galileo,Bruno,etc.),d) the "Index", only recently lifted, e)the plunder and destruction of entire civilizations in the new world,(and i could go on), all in the name of God? So what else is new? Besides the fact that the idea of a god is an insult to my intelligence. Indeed i was born a catholic and subjected to the usual brainwashing until i started using the brain i was born with. Who said: "Anything new in this world is the history you don't know"?. Because of limited space, i rest my case.


Jane
said

Has it escaped everyone that the book is actually under review? In all likelihood, the panel of reviewers will determine that the book is suitable for the shelves. I would also note that the book is available upon request, just not on display.

While I abhor the idea of censorship, the library must acknowledge the concerns of its patrons ... in this case, the parents. The policy states that if the challenged material is deemed worthy, it will not be pulled.

Lets have faith (pardon the pun) that the reviewers are sensible enough to put this book where it belongs - on the shelf.

Just pointing out some details that seem to have been lost in a whole lot of rhetoric in these arguments.


Bob Smith
said

Ironically the Taliban did the exact same thing...

Fundamentalism, regardless of religion, has no place on earth.


Charlene
said

I haven't read the original version, but just the movie guide. It is simply a book for kids' reading. I do not see anything remotely related to religion or God. I think the Church is promoting this film in a way, people becoming more and more interested. Good job.

Remember what happened with Mel Gibson's film?


Craig
said

I can't believe some of the comments here! This is a Catholic school board who in their right mind would think they are not within their jurisdiction to pull this from library shelves? It's not a public library after all

Also as a parent who CHOOSES to send my daughters to a Catholic school (all the while being agnostic myself) I fully support this school board.


Matt
said

Some posters are right, there are a few points.

Should a religous group be allowed to limit their materials to only those that promote their views. Should they also be allowed to hide any contradictory viewpoints from those within the group. From this perspective the behaviour of the Catholic schoolboard is IMO justified.

The second view is should a government funded body promote one set of religous beliefs and remove materials that may criticise those believes and promote an alternative.
Most who believe in the separation of church and state feel that this is an inappropriate use of public money.

I just don't want my tax dollars paying for the promotion of one groups religion.' Its bad enough my tax dollars do promote certain religions, but to actively try and hide away any dissenting viewpoint is just wrong. Hiding the other viewpoints is not democratic and not the job of the government.


Steve
said

Why is it that school boards can ban the Bible and no one says a word, however, ban this book and people get upset.

You wonder why we have such problems in our schools.


Keith
said

If you don't like the Catholic system there is always the public, private or even home school if you wish. In this country we do still have a choice !


Michael
said

Why exactly is this Board concerned about this book? Afraid of reverse brain-washing, or just concerned that students might actually use their power of reason and question the fallacies and lies that the Catholic Church (and every other religion for that matter) tries to instill in children. Anyway, congrats to the Halton Separate Board for giving widespread free publicity to this athiest's works ... remember Toronto City Council and the Barenaked Ladies!


DG
said

All the more evidence that the church and education should be separated. If the Catholic School System was privately funded, it would be none of the public's business in this regard. Since it is publicly funded in Ontario, it is everyone's business. Next thing you know, we'll see a good old fashioned book burning.


Blair
said

I've read a lot about "it's the parents' right to deny a child's right to free thought." That is not an exact quote, but close enough. This is not a pornographic book. It does not promote the hatred of a group of people. Even if it did promote hatred of God, so what? Prove God exists, then pull the book because it promotes hatred against God. If it turns out God exists and his feelings are hurt, so be it. Untill then, lay off.

First the Catholic school system leaches money off of Ontario, then denies it's students the rights that Ontario allows those students.

I think this is evidence of a bigger issue than just the book, stop funding religious schools, of all kinds!


LW
said

Purely out of curiosity, how many people here *read* the article? It clearly states: "It's reported the complaint was lodged because the author stated in an interview that he is an atheist". Not that the book is anti-Christian or anti-religion or anything, it was pulled *BECAUSE THE AUTHOR IS ATHEIST*.

Now, personally, I haven't read The Golden Compass and it's been quite some time since I read The Subtle Knife (Book 2 in His Dark Materials; The Golden Compass is Book 1), but I don't recall anything anti-religious in that book. I remember The Subtle Knife was a very good fantasy book, but nothing more.

And on that note, why is it that every book must be a psychoanalysis of its author, and why must every author's psyche be injected into everything they write? Can't people write for the joy of writing without being berated over things that may or may not be at all related to the topic?


L out West
said

This article is intended to mislead and create controversy where none exists. As a secular democracy we have the right to hold any faith we wish. The state is free from church interference and the church is free from state interference. If the Catholic School board feels a book is contrary to the values it is trying to build in children then it would be their responsibility to pull the book. If I were a Catholic parent I would expect the Catholic schools to exercise such discretion. It is really up to them and the rest of us should but out. If it were a public school it would be a different issue. The real issue is how education should be carried out and how it should be funded. It is obvious that the public is against funding religious education. Perhaps the legacy of public funding of Catholic schools needs to be revisited. The other issue is choice in education and parents should be free to access education that provides education in cultural manner of the parent's choice. That is multiculturalism and we are supposed to be a multicultural nation.


eastcoastrob
said

I don't think that it's a good idea to deprive children of lierature of any sort. They need to explore different opinions and learn to think critically. At the same time I don't blame the Catholic boards for removing it from their libraries especially after a complaint. If I was looking for fiction with an anti-christian theme a Catholic school library is would certainly not be my first stop.


N.M.
said

I agree with the boards decision.
If it goes against beliefs of the Catholic system then why carry it?
If someone wanted to read it they could go to the public library or bookstore.
It doesn't belong in the Catholic school system.

As for mr Here wo go again again...
You say "In reference to all the Catholic School supporters...No problem! then please remove the school system from our Government support!"
Isn't that the same issue? Aren't you saying 'we don't like it here so get rid of it'
How hypocritical!


Shane
said

It's fine enough to say that a Catholic school has the right to pull a book that has some athiest undertones from the shelves, but when that school is funded, even in part, with public money we need re-evaluate the legitimacy of that school. If you want to go to a catholic school be my guest but you better not censor my right to read something if you are going to that school on my dollar.


Mike N
said

Whatever,
If they want to ban this book go ahead. And parents can be happy that their children are growing up in narrow minded bliss.
The rest of us can go on expecting that our children grow up being presented with as wide a variety of viewpoints as possible so that one day they can informatively make up their own minds.


Pullman's a dolt but has rights too
said

As an intelligent Catholic, I think there are positive things to be gained by intelligently written works from Christians and atheists alike. (This is where "judge not lest ye be judged" comes into play, you sanctimonious types). But though I personally have no issue w. the book, it is the right of a private institution to yank it. If you disagree, send your kids to a different school: You have a right to oversee the values that are tought to your kids, same as me. My big issue is with this moronic attitude "look at all the horrors done in the name of Christianity." Name me one millenia-enduring human institutiuon that doesn't have attrocties in its past. Are we going to ban Gemany for The Holocaust? Japan for Pearl Harbour? Asia for Ghengis Kahn? Life isn't that simple when human beaings are involved, no blanket policy on any facet of human existence will ever be 100% correct, Mr. Pullman.


JK
said

This book and the two others in the trilogy are works of fiction. They are geared to older children in elementary school, children who are old enough to understand the difference between fiction/fantasy and reality. Reading books is a luxury through which people of all ages can relax and escape into the world of their imagination. While there are many subjects that we may not want our children to read about, it seems that all too often an adult comes up with a wild interpretation of a character or incident or theme in a childrens' story and sets off a maelstrom of controversy such as this. Maybe more effort should be put into separating school libraries into age-appropriate sections, not banning books altogether. I guarantee that most, if not all children who read the Pullman trilogy will remember it as an elaborate, imaginative story, not as a treatise on atheism (or violence, or sexuality, etc.) The sheer number of characters and plot twists ensure this is a challenging read and kids will feel a sense of accomplishment at having completed it. Isn't that what our schools should be promoting?


Oswald R D'Paiva
said

It is strange that every time we approach the season of Christmas that we see such controversial books and films making their rounds, that ridicule God and religion?

What is all the controversy about, should not a Catholic school board foster the love of God and religion? That is the very reason parents send their children to a Catholic school.


James F
said

I can't for the life of me figure out why an atheist would even care what is in a catholics library. Can we now put away the charade that atheism is not a religion? But seeks to promote itself as the only acceptable "secular" religion.

It seems foolish to claim that the catholics by examining a books contents, atheists would claim discrimination--and by them so proclaiming do blatantly discriminate against the Catholics.

Does anyone not see the hypocrisy?

An atheist dismisses the core of absolute truth,
Yet ironically they make claims that it is absolutely wrong what the Catholics are doing.
By what measure?

Who stops atheists in this country from living without God? Wha wha wha. Where is the persecution?







Mark
said

Your faux outrage is hypocritical. We all know that Christian books are removed from public schools on a daily basis in the name of 'Tolerance' and 'Diversity'. If A catholic school decides to remove athiest material, it's their right by being a religious institution.

Tell you what - when the rest of the so-called 'progressives' get as outrged over the removal of prayer and Christian material as they are outraged over this, I will support them. Until then, tough beans.


Stefan
said

Catholic schools are there to educate children with Catholic values and ideals. How many people here have actually taken the time to read the content of the golden compass? Topics in the series include the death of God, and others which clearly and definitively attack Christianity and theism as a whole. The author has openly admitted to this.
So at the end of the day, do we really expect a Catholic schoolboard, so allow a book into their schools (despite being fiction), that promotes ideas that are contrary to the very faith being taught in that system?
As well, people blame the board for the church wanting only Catholic values in the system. Well, the book promotes ideas of God's non-existence. This is a no brainer folks. It has nothing to do with falling into the dark ages, or being intollerant, the church is simply doing it's job. No one is forcing you to send your kids to Catholic schools, or believe in the the churches teaching. I believe that it is secular society that needs to be more tollerant of religious beliefs, something this country's charter of rights and freedoms promises.


asdfadsfa
said

I find it amazing how people these days seem to have lost all ability to actually read a text and understand what they're reading.

The article doesn't say the the book was banned. It was pulled because of a complaint, which is protocol for any book. It is now being reviewed to see if it is appropriate and can still be taken out by students at those schools, it just isn't on the shelves.

As for Catholic's being crazy for censoring. The high school I went to in Halifax was completely secular and banned To Kill a Mockingbird, now that's oppression.


CLOKE
said

This reminds me of a mother who would carefully cut out the ads or columns that might have been suggestive from Life magazine delivered to their home (in the 1950s) and I remember the sons running to the local newsstand and looking for the removed items. Telling youth to not look at something only makes them want to look that much more. Somebody is losing this battle.


Joey Tavares
said

Asking whether Muslim or Jewish schools would carry library materials that were against their religion is moot, as Muslim and Jewish schools in Canada are PRIVATE and can, within provincial guidelines, do whatever they want.

The Catholic School System is a PUBLICLY FUNDED system. They cannot do whatever they want.

I am a Roman Catholic, and I think it's time the double standard of public education be erased. There is no need for a publicly funded religious school system in Ontario, or Canada for that matter.

Get rid of the Separate School System. Now.


CMS
said

Did I miss-read the article? I thought it said that the book had been pulled from the library shelves after the board received complaints from some parents. I thought I also read that the book was still available to students on request, and that the board had set up a committee to review and evaluate the book before a final decision is made on whether it will be permanently removed from the libraries. Did I miss something, or is this a case of a school board responding to the concerns of the parents of their students and investigating further before making a rash decision? Maybe I need to brush up on my reading skills because the other comments that have been posted sure don't sound like they apply to the same article I read.
By the way, I am not Catholic and my children all attended Public School - and I can't say that parental concerns matter very much in that system! My private opinion, of course.



Lart from Above
said

The issue here isn't the author's atheism or about the fantasy content. This isn't Harry Potter and it's not some vague allegory. In the third book of this series, God is a senile person who dies of old age. The series may be artistically interesting, suitable for children or not, but it certainly carries a strong and explicit anti-religious message. The books shouldn't be removed from public schools, libraries, or bookstores, but one can certainly see why Catholic schools would take exception to the books' content.

This isn't comparable to the "Satanic Verses" controversy. The Halton Catholic District School Board hasn't issued a fatwa calling for the death of Philip Pullman. Public discourse and distribution of ideas is a right enshrined by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but that does not oblige religious institutions to embrace works that are directly critical of their beliefs.

The first two books of the trilogy are well-written; the third has some odd literary flaws that seem to arise from the author's ideology. People need to tone down the rhetoric, possibly find out what they are talking about, and accept that freedom of speech and religion includes allowing religious groups to say what they support or oppose in society at large.

For myself, I'm looking forward to seeing the movie.


Relax
said

I think everyone should just relax and get off their high horse and maybe even re-read the story. The book is not banned. It is merely being reviewed to see if it is appropriate to stock in a Catholic School Library for all ages to take out. This same courtesy is extended to all school and public libraries across this country. Why should it not also be allowed to a religious school? Libraries pick and choose what books to keep on their shelves. Hate literature is generally not available in libraries. At least it never used to be. I have not read the book, so don't dare to make any comments on its contents. But if the book does attack the Catholic faith and Christian beliefs, the School Board is well within its rights to review it and make a decision as to its availability to its students.


AnnaP
said

Folks, let's at least get the facts straight. The Halton Catholic school board is reviewing whether to keep copies of The Golden Compass in its elementary school libraries, after receiving a complaint. A committee has been formed to review the book and consider its appropriateness; the review is expected in two or three weeks. This process is in accordance with the school board's policy; when a complaint is filed it must be looked into.

In the meantime, the books are still in the library, at the [circulation] desk.


James Randall
said

I think it might just be time to revisit the justification for a publicly funded Roman Catholic school board. I am not against anyone's right to prevent their children from reading a book, but if the RCSB wants to accept public money, they should not be allowed to discriminate this way. Oh, and for all those people claiming the Bible has been banned, please provide actual examples.


D Wilson
said

I am not a Catholic and I am a big fan of Phillip Pullman's work. I have actually read the trilogy in question and I would say it is one of the best works of fiction for children that I have encountered in my 40 odd years as an avid and prolific reader. The writing is better than Rowling's and on a par with that of CS Lewis. The trilogy is, however, anti-God and anti-church and thus I think it is quite appropriate that it is not made available in Catholic school libraries. There are also public libraries and book stores.


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