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Taser manufacturer wants role in review process

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Canada AM: Tom Smith, co-founder of Taser Intl.
CTV British Columbia: Peter Grainger speaks with a former U.S. Navy seal who shares his concerns
CTV British Columbia: Julia Foy speaks with a witness who says the latest Taser incident in B.C.

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Wed. Nov. 21 2007 8:39 AM ET

An executive with Taser International says his company wants to participate in any Canadian review of the stun gun and is confident the product would be found safe.

"We do need answers to what happened," Taser co-founder and chairman Tom Smith told CTV's Canada AM on Wednesday.

"Obviously we manufacture the device. We have a lot of knowledge that we can share, so we need to be part of this inquiry so we can try and provide some answers."

Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day announced Tuesday that he had asked Paul Kennedy, who heads the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, to conduct the review.

"I have asked the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP to review all RCMP protocols on the use of CEDs (conducted electrical devices) and to assess the compliance of the RCMP with these protocols," the minister said in a news release.

"This builds on the work currently underway by the Commission on the use of CEDs, as referred in its June 2007 Annual Report."

The review comes following the Oct. 14 death of Robert Dziekanski, a Polish man, at Vancouver International Airport following a confrontation that ended with RCMP officers using a Taser on him.

Kennedy -- who will only look at the RCMP -- is to make an initial report by Dec. 12. His work is in addition to Day's earlier decision to have the RCMP conduct an internal review of its Taser procedures.

The Liberals have called for a broad national review that would include the RCMP, the Canada Border Services Agency, Immigration, Transport Canada and the Vancouver Airport Authority.

The NDP and Amnesty International want police to suspend Taser use, citing 17 deaths in Canada and more than 280 in the United States.

The B.C. government has also ordered a public inquiry into the Dziekanski case.

Meanwhile in Chilliwack, B.C., a man is in extremely critical condition in hospital following a Tuesday incident with police, who used pepper spray, batons and a Taser to subdue him.

Critic welcomes review

A critic -- and competitor -- of Tasers is welcoming the review of how RCMP officers use the stun guns.

"If you don't know what the threshold of safety and effectiveness is, then how do you prevent these devices from being abused in the field and in real world scenarios, when there's no supervision?" Ken Stethem asked in an interview with CTV British Columbia on Tuesday.

Stethem -- founder of Omega Science, a company that develops non-lethal security tools -- said part of the problem with Tasers is their design.

The North Vancouver businessman and former U.S. Navy Seal said Tasers rely on "spark gap technology." As with a car's spark plug, CEDs can wear out. When they do, the intended electrical wavelength can change and make the devices unsafe.

Officers using such a device might be tempted to use the device more than once, he said.

That raises the following questions for Stethem:

  • How many stuns are too many?
  • When is the duration of electrical contact too long?
  • What science has been done by the manufacturer or law enforcement to support the use of CEDs?

"What science has been done to support unlimited stuns and unlimited exposure -- and the answer is none," Stethem said.

His company is developing a solid-state device that reportedly won't have any variations in electrical output.

But Taser International's position is that: "Specifically in Canada, while previous incidents were widely reported in the media as 'Taser deaths,' the role of the Taser device has been cleared in every case to date."

Smith told Canada AM, "I have been Tasered myself. I have Tasered my brother."

While admitting the device is "not risk-free," Smith said it's still the safest way to end a confrontation.

Comments are now closed for this story

JTJ
said

ABSOLUTELY, they should be part of this... they are the ones that make the instrument, let them try to explain what happens when it fails...


A. Bica
said

It's not the application that fails, it's that employing it on people not knowing their medical condition in advance that takes and jeopardizes lives.

Further, it should never be employed on unarmed people.

An impartial inquiry should examine use not get a sales pitch from the manufacturer or the cops


Pete
said

No they should not be part of this. They have a vested interest of getting the facts glossed over with therms like Excited Delirium. This is how we have arrived at this place in time in the first place. We need a independent review. The body count keeps going up.


Lise
said

Yes the manufacturer must be involved. If it is found that the ones used were defective and/or they should be modified for lesser charge but as effective. Let it be known and discussed. A taser should be effective but not life threathening.


MH
said

In response to JTJ. The device has not been proven to have "failed". It functioned as advertised and incapacitated Mr. Dziekanski. Let us wait for the facts on the cause of death. But yes the manufacturer should be part of any review on it's use.


Jeff T
said

In response to JTJ's post... I think you have to take consideration that the developers of the taser device really has no criminal involvement given as to what has taken place at YVR. Its not that their product failed. ... When was the last time you heard of Remington or Winchester being sued for gun related deaths?. I still think however alot of people are jumping to conclusions directly blaming the taser device as the cause of death. ...The coroners report has still yet to be fully revealed.


Morrissey
said

For a truly independent inquiry, keep Taser International out. I thought it was a no-brainer.


KS
said

How does this work - Mechanism of action.

Does the electricity pass through the heart muscle as well or preferentially bypasses the heart?

I understand passing current through the skeletal muscles induces a tetanic contraction and severe pain.




MH
said

In response to A.Bica. Picture a scenario where 2 female officers at a combined weight of 260 pounds attempt to arrest a cocaine fueled violent offender who weighs 300 pounds who is attacking your family. Mind you he is unarmed. OK to employ the taser now?


Sam J
said

If they are allowed to attend then Amnesty International should also be invited to attend. We need to get to the bottom of this. If you want to know what they will say just read past inquiries.
We want the facts not the FUD.


MVAC
said

Yes taser international should be a part of this inquiry. Personally I believe this taser should only be used by trained police officers and used on individuals who are extremely out of control or are a threat to the officers own safety. If a person has a weapon being (shovel, knife, meat cleaver) I would expect that the officer refer to their firearm. Be up a level when you are dealing with this type a threat. Go home at the end of your shift, do not mess around and keep up the good work


Bob
said

PETE is right.

They should have NO part in this.
...When the results are known let them know so that they can either fix the problems or get rid of them from all Canadian police forces.


Michael
said

What also needs to be looked at is a review of the entire Canadian police culture as to the weaponry and training they have. It seems these guys are quick to use the toys and not as quick to be a peace officer.

JDP
said

To respond to A. Bica's post: Tasers should not and will not be used on armed people. That is a situation where police rightly employ their firearms instead. The taser is used to deal with unarmed assailants primarily, and I hope it continues to be used.


Bryan
said

Reply to A. Bica:

Tasers are meant for an intermediate solution. If a suspect is armed, an officer will not pull out a taser to defend him/herself - he or she will put out their sidearm. Ask any officer about that. Not one will tell you that a taser is to be used against an armed suspect as they are not trained that way, nor should they be.

Why is all the blame being placed on officers? The man who is now in critical condition had a choice. He could have chosen to leave the premesis and not allow it to escalate. There was a situation in Winnipeg a couple years ago when an 18 year old charged at an officer with a screwdriver. The officer shot him, and I believe was completely justified in doing so.

Officers put their lives on the line during duty to enforce the law. They have every right to defend themselves if the situation warrants. Why place all the blame on officers? If suspects did not do stupid things in the first place, they would never find themselves in that situation.


Don
said

Before deciding on including the manufacturer, it must first be determined what killed the gentleman at YVR. If the Taser played a role then their input is of value.
In reply to several of the other postings, I firmly believe that an unarmed person should not be Tasered unless there is a definite threat to the officers involved. ie the case that was described in which the person to be subdued could overpower the officers.



Marion Bialek
said

The taser is supposed to be used to avoid using lethal force not as punishment or a substitute for traditional police enforcement measures. If someone has to be subdued the application of force may be necessary. This is why police get training in the martial arts. Now it looks like the police prefer using a taser than getting into an altercation. Yes a man can be beaten to death but I suspect that has happened far fewer times than the number of times people have died as a result of taser use. The threat to life the taser poses either by its direct application or due to underlining medical conditions is too great for its casual use. It was supposed to be an alternative to the use of lethal force and should only be used under the most severe circumstances.


Raymond
said

I don't believe the company has the right to be there. They are not goverment they are private interest.

KB
said

I have been involved in Karate for a long time and most recently have been taking Ju-jitsu. One of my classmates, a police officer, is thrilled to learn proper ju-jitsu techniques to subdue criminals in a manner that works, is painful, yet does not kill or permanently harm them. I was amazed that the police weren't trained in these techniques. My solution is send all the police officer sto mandatory ju-jitsu classes where they can learn to take out an unarmed offender without the use of tasers, pepper spray, or lethal force.


sean
said

"Should never be used on unarmed people" Are you kidding me. If I am a 120 lbs woman, getting beaten by a 250 lbs wrestler, and all I have to defend myself is a gun, or a taser. Should I shoot him, or let myself be beaten to death. People don't have to be holding a weapon to be dangerous.


Steve
said

I firmly believe that a lot more suspects would have died, as well as civilians and officers, had it not been for the taser. That said, it (like a handgun) is a weapon that needs to be used appropriately and when used, the suspect needs to be treated properly to ensure that they are given every opportunity to recover from the effects.

From what we have seen and heard, it would appear that protocol was not followed in this case. Having the manufacturer involved in the review will allow the panel to compare what happened in real life with what the manufacturer's recommendations are.

MH
said

The lack of understanding on the use of force by police in these comments is apalling! There is no martial arts training for police for starters. Secondly, Ju-jitsu training? Nice concept! The cost and time to train and keep every Police Officer up to date on Ju-Jitsu would be astronomical. Taser deaths in Canada are at ZERO by the way! Not one death has been attributed to the taser so Marion's comments that they out number beating deaths is absolutely ridiculous.

Zach R.
said

In response to Jeff T

Gun manufacturers have been sued over gun-related deaths by municipalities, they've all been thrown out of court but just so ya know. I think taser international should have the opportunity to defend its product. If it was an investigation into a car the car manufacturer would be involved.


Kevin H. Goligher
said

All this focus on the TAZER may be mising the real problem. Many people who are in a fit of rage when confronted and restrained by police have suddenly died.

barbara
said

A number of comments argue that a woman police officer needs a taser to defend herself if attacked by a large violent man. Any woman choosing to be a police officer should have or learn other defence methods and not rely on a taser. So do we women who choose to go out at night and walk freely in public - we know there is a risk and prepare to deal with it. These arguments do not justify the use of the taser.


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