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Critics see Mountie contradictions in Taser video

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CTV News Video

CTV News: Todd Battis with the critical reactions
CTV British Columbia: Reporters with reaction from experts in the field of psychology and policing
CTV Newsnet: Murray Molland, B.C. Civil Liberties Association
CTV Newsnet: Paul Smith, Tasered by police
Canada AM: Paul Pritchard, taped Taser incident
Canada AM: RCMP Cpl. Dale Carr, Integrated Homicide Investigation Team
Canada AM: Walter Kosteckyj, lawyer for Dziekanski's mother
CTV News: Vancouver Bureau Chief Todd Battis on the chilling final moments
CTV Newsnet: RCMP responds to Taser video release
CTV British Columbia: Correspondents speak to people who witnessed the Taser

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Thu. Nov. 15 2007 11:03 PM ET

Critics took aim at the RCMP Thursday in the wake of a new video showing a man die after he was Tasered by Mounties last month.

Amnesty International says it wants a full investigation into what happened after Polish national Robert Dziekanski arrived at Vancouver International Airport on Oct. 14.

Dziekanski was held in a secure area of the airport for nearly 10 hours. He became agitated and frustrated and airport security called police.

A video by a witness shows him throwing a chair at a glass wall and yelling. But by the time police arrived, the video also shows that Dziekanski had appeared to have calmed down.

"For me, it (the video) raises a lot of questions as to how decisions were made going into that incident because what you appear to see is that they show up and move to Taser somebody,'' Hilary Homes of Amnesty International said.

In the video, Dziekanski backs away from police and raises his arms, as if to capitulate to the officers.

But within seconds he was zapped with a Taser, an electric stun gun. He flails in pain, is pinned by the officers, appears to have been Tasered again, and passes out. He later died.

The events on the video appear to contradict what the RCMP said about the event a day after it occurred, before the video was seen by the public.

"They found the man in the secure area with his luggage cart and chairs set around him," said RCMP spokesperson Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre right after Dziekanski's death.

"They tried to do the same thing, communicate with him. Chairs went flying, he grabbed the computer off a desk and threw that. They weren't getting through to this guy and the violence, again, escalating."

But in the video, the RCMP are no where to be seen when the chair is thrown. They had not yet arrived on the scene.

At no time on the video does Dziekanski grab a computer when the police are there. He had picked one up and then set it back down earlier in the video, but that was well before police had arrived.

When they do arrive, Dziekanski appears to be calm. He backs away and appears to be in the process of handing himself over to police when he is Tasered, a mere thirty seconds after police arrive.

Amnesty International wants all police departments to stop using Tasers until they have been thoroughly studied.

A professor of ethics says the RCMP will now have to work hard to win back public trust.

"Those who are involved are going to have to give a clearer account of what occurred than that at the present seems to be what's forthcoming," said Mark Wexler of Simon Fraser University.

He added that there will have to be a "stronger emphasis upon training (and) de-emphasis on keeping the public out of the way."

Police reaction

On Thursday, police said they believed the information they gave after the incident was accurate to the best of their knowledge. They had no further comment.

Earlier, Cpl. Dale Carr, a spokesperson for the RCMP, said judgment should not be cast until all the information has been gathered.

"Our reaction is that our testimony will come out at the coroner's inquest and it will offer perspective on what the police officers were going through and what all the other witnesses were going through at the time and they'll be testifying under oath," Carr told CTV's Canada AM on Thursday.

He said a much more complete picture will develop as the result of the police investigation, which is still ongoing, and a coroner's inquest that will probe the circumstances of Dziekanski's death.

Emergency radio logs leaked to CTV British Columbia show a 12-minute gap from when Dziekanski lost consciousness and when B.C. Ambulance arrived.

The airport has its own paramedics who could have been at the scene within two minutes, but the airport supervisor did not call them, CTV British Columbia reported.

For reasons that are still not clear, it took 10 hours for Dziekanski to clear customs. He and his mother never connected, and she left the airport to return to Kamloops.

The Polish government has called for a full probe of the tragedy.

Paul Pritchard, the witness who taped the incident on his video camera, told Canada AM on Thursday that Dziekanski appeared scared and seeking help when police arrived. He said he never felt threatened by the man.

"He was acting irrationally, but in my opinion he was acting scared," Pritchard said.

He said Dziekanski even put his arms out in a gesture of defeat and showed no signs he was going to resist arrest.

He said the four officers seemed intent on using a Taser despite Dziekanski's apparent willingness to surrender. The situation escalated quickly once they did.

"It became a real situation all of a sudden. I was just filming for the sake of an entertainment standpoint, but once they Tasered him you heard this bloodcurdling scream. I still think about it," Pritchard said.

Another cellphone video of the fatal confrontation had been released previously but this latest video is of much higher quality.

Other witnesses also said they didn't feel threatened by Dziekanski.

The Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP has filed its own complaint about the case. The RCMP's Integrated Homicide Investigation Team is also investigating the incident.

Liberals call for national review of Tasers

During Thursday's question period, public safety minister Stockwell Day said in addition to the coroner's inquest and two police reviews, he has also ordered a review. He did not give details of what type of review it would be, how it would be conducted, or who would conduct it.

The Liberals said nothing short of formal national review of Taser use by police officers is required. The party's public safety critic, Ujjal Dosanjh, said in a press release that the review should be commenced in light of Dziekanski's death "and the release of video of that incident."

"While we understand the need of law enforcement to be able to subdue suspects in dangerous situations, Mr. Dziekanski's tragic death and other incidents have led to questions about whether Tasers are being used appropriately," said Dosanjh.

Dosanjh said the government must appoint an appropriate body to look into Taser use and consequences. He suggested that the RCMP Public Complaints Commission may look into the matter. It's already investigating the Dziekanski death.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion said he hasn't seen the Dziekanski video and stopped short of calling for an outright ban of Tasers. But he said he wants the RCMP to review its use of the weapon.

A Mother's Reaction

The mother of a Polish immigrant who died after RCMP officers used a Taser on him can't understand why police didn't simply arrest her son before using force.

Walter Kosteckyj, the lawyer for Zofia Cisowski, said his client was stunned after watching a video of the confrontation that resulted in her son's death.

"Her position is basically this: 'I see my son lost, looking for help. When he sees the police he's calling out for them, I tried to get help, he tried to get help and this is the way things have ended up.'"

Kosteckyj said his client doesn't understand why police apparently acted with such force. He said the four officers arrived on the scene and headed straight to the suspect without securing the scene, asking questions or getting background, or even moving a nearby witness -- steps he suggested could have resulted in a peaceful end to the confrontation.

Dziekanski will be buried on Saturday at 11 a.m. in Kamloops.

Comments are now closed for this story

marj ursel
said

Police are trained to handle incidents like this before entering the workforce, let them do their job!!


Margaret
said

This is appalling. I can only imagine how this mother is feeling. Part of the blame has to go to Airport Authority Immigration for their policies of keeping people detained for hours. Obviously the man was becoming agitated. And why did no one try to revive him?
This is sickening.



Mishie
said

Why did the employees of the airport not call for his mother on the speaker. That man looked really scared. The video taken is proof enough.


charles
said

This man was not a threat and their poor judgment in failing to identify the situation led to his death. These Mounties should be prosecuted.


Madeline
said

My God! What have we come to in this country? I am sick to my stomach after viewing the video on CTV. ...Surely there MUST be more to this story than what we are able to see on the video. If not then somebody MUST do something about procedures which allow such a disaster to happen. This is just not right in a civilized country!!!


Robert
said

I can't believe that suh a thing could happen in our country. Maybe they should have the RCMP with translators availble at airports. This is very disturbing,as it should be to all of us.

Robert.


Scott
said

I was just watching coverage on this this morning along with the video. The man was acting very irrational for whatever the reason and I do not see why the police are at all at fault. In my opinion this just another example of people coming down on our front line workers when they simply followed procedure. ... Leave the damn cops alone. It didn't look like the man was cooperating either when the police showed up, contrary to what some are saying.


Steven
said

How ridiculous stop blaming the police. He was acting violently! Non-violent people do not barricade themselves or throw things.


noel
said

I couldn't bring myself to watch it:( My heart breaks for this guy's mom.Tasers in this situation were not needed,but a kind word would have gone a long way for this lost soul in a strange country.I am disgusted with the RCMP!


Arthur
said

Without a doubt this matter was handled inappropriately. The video shows that the police resorted to the taser without just provocation. He was not making any threatening gestures towards them or the public (he was in an enclosed area) and there were 6 cops who were told as they arrived that he did not speak english. Some restraint was in order (one officer is saying "put your hands behind you" as the victim, who does not know english, is screaming in agony from the first jolt).



ASIA
said

Those RCMP should be prosecuted. Period.


Newfie1030
said

It would make no sense for the police to try to restrain him in another way. That could have led to one of the officers and/or a by-stander getting hurt. I think we have a lot of armchair quarterbacks, who think they can solve all the problems after the fact without being there. Trust me it is a totally different thing when you are face to face with someone like these officers were.

Matt
said

They totally outweighed this man. All they had to do is, be sure he hasn't a weapon and jump him. What physical force did they use from their training?


Trent
said

It appears that many people are quick to judge the RCMP in a negative manner without actually having all the facts here. This man, prior to the video being captured was acting in a hostitle manner; making threats to airport staff and throwing furniture. Would you all have rathered that someone shot him? The taser is a far less lethal implement to subdue persons. ....KUDOS TO THE RCMP, they responded in a textbook fashion! Keep up the great work.


JDM
said

I see two major failures here.

Customs and Immigration failed to observe basic decencies by failing to provide an interpreter and by failing to contact his mother. No one should ever be forced to endure 10 hours unable to communicate with officials. In a country as multi-cultural as Canada, this is an outrage.

Although the police obviously need to be investigated and disciplined for the needless use of the taser, the situation should never have reached this point.

Any investigation of this incident should not only include the police action, but also the lack of action on the part of Customs and Immigration.



Dave
said

I thought the policy of shoot first and ask questions later disappeared with the wild west.

Dave
said

In my opinion, the people who should be investigated are the ones who held this man up for 10 hours with no valid reason which is why he became irritated to begin with. The police only did what they were supposed to do.
D


MC
said

In my opinion, the disgusting one in this situation is Paul Pritchard. How dare he use this tragic event to exploit matters he knows nothing of! I feel more shame over that than the actions the RCMP took. Since when did it become acceptable to show video of a man dying and to manipulate the RCMP into getting your way with a lawsuit? If the media showed video of everything the police did the whole country would want the police charged. Let them do their job.


Thurston T
said

Look,
The man was acting in a violent manner. He may have APPEARED to have calmed down for a moment however it seems all those who view this tape believe the mounties should risk injury to themselves so that this man be placed in custody. I think everyone including all Monday morning quarterbacks in the media should wait for the inquiry.

Bob
said

To Mishie: How were the police to know that his mother was there. They didn't know what language he was speaking. And how are the RCMP to have translators present? Do you know how many languages there are in the world?


Marie
said

To Steven,

Yes he was acting violently yet the means used to subdue him were not appropriate to the threat he posed. Tasers, mace, and firearms are only to be used in instances where the officer believes that no other options exist from stopping someone who is an extreme danger to them or the public (according to police procedure training manuals). This was not the case as the six officers could have controlled him otherwise.


Trent
said

Here is another thought for all you folks blaming the RCMP. What if this person had done the same thing on an aircraft while airborne and a skymarshall shot him?! Would you cast blame on the skymarshall or would you be thanking him?

Maureen
said

This is an absolute outrage. The incident was mishandled from the outset. If the airport officials had acted in a sensible fashion, the man would have met his mother and there would have been no problem. Calling the police was obviously the wrong thing to do. One would think four trained officers could have subdued this unarmed man. What was the worst thing that could have happened to them? They may have been hit with a fist or the chair, but isn't that what all the expensive training is supposed to prepare them for?

Dave G
said

This truly is a tragedy, but it certainly doesn't seem to me that the Police are the devil-horned, cloven-hooved monsters that a lot of media sources are making them out to be.
Let's face it, the guy went bananas. For all of those who are second guessing the cops having had weeks to think about it, ask yourselves... would you have confronted the man yourself? Probably not, out of fear. He was throwing furniture, barricaded himself in a room and at one point was using a TV tray as a defensive prop.
The taser is a less-than-lethal tool that has actually saved lives when, instead of a taser a gun would have had to be used.

andy
said

This man was scared and confused who did not understand English. The police should have done a better job to calm the situation.

Nancy
said

This is Canada not Burma, the police does not have absolute powers. I can't believe people still defend the RCMP's course of action. Where was Airport Security, by the way? Where were the translators? In a country that sees new immigrants every day, it is appalling that we don't have translators around. And I agree with the person that said they should have called his mother on speaker.
The officers made no attempt to calm the guy down or try to talk to him, they went straight to the taser. They didn't even do CPR to try to revive him!! What they did is UNACCEPTABLE and it made me sick to my stomach.

Lisa C
said

How easy it is for us to sit in judgement of a situation we were not in. What happened before the video was taken? Obviously the situation needs to be anylized, but for the sake of the security of everyone(Remember that this incident took place at an International Airport. 9-11 anyone?)the police must have decided on this course of action with some forethought. What if this man, no matter his nationality or language barriers decided instead of throwing a computer he instead took hold of a person. The language barrier works both ways people.
I am very sorry for this loss of this son, however the needs of the many appear to have outweighed the needs of the one in this event.


Steve
said

In speaking with an RCMP officer recently he told me how tasers are perfectly safe unless the 'suspect' is in distress with an already elevated heart rate such as is the case from certain drugs, medical conditions or in this case, as far as we know, being alone and scared in a forgien country in which they can then trigger heart failure. He also went on to state their safety record based on how many officers have been shot with tasers during training and no deaths resulted. He did forget to mention how during training the officers are in good physical condition and are not under distress or pressure.

Lorie
said

First thing I saw when I watched the video, this man was clearly tired and scared. 10 hours he spent at the airport, how come he was not approached and helped before this disaster happened? Clearly he was ignored until he made himself umm not ignorable. He couldn't speak English, he couldn't tell anyone of his plight. How come an interpreter wasn't found to help him? Instead, you can bet airport staff treated the situation as 'maybe if we ignore him he'll go away'. A sad fact in today's society is that we don't want to get involved in others problems, God forbid we waste a moment of our time to help someone in need..... sad very sad.

Jeff Langille
said

It doesnt matter to me whether the polish man was acting irrational or violent, but that the police seemed to use excessive force to subdue him. These officers are trained to handle this kind of situation, and if they are trained to shoot a taser before trying something a bit less aggressive then there is something wrong with the procedures. An officer wouldn't fire a gun at first impulse(hopefully) just because someone was unruly, and they should not be trained to due so with a taser.


Terry G
said

Police need tools to aid them in their work, but this is story is heart breaking.


Joon
said

My heart is also aching.
Anyone who has flown - especially for the first time on a plane - knows how completely worn out you can be mentally and physically. And being surrounded by people who cannot cannot communicate with you because they do not speak your language. TEN HOURS in the airport - that is unacceptable.
Had he eaten or had a drink during that time?
How would we feel if a fellow Canadian had exactly the same thing happen in an airport in Poland?
Maybe this man's death will not be in vain and policies will be changed.
...and thank goodness that man took the video so that there can be no question about what happened.

Nicole C.
said

I feel the officers were WAY out line using the taser like that.
They were not in "immediate danger", as the man was in an enclosed space, and they had him surrounded. I hope these officers look at this man's mother and never forget the pain that is on her face from losing her son.

Cheryl
said

Very SAD !!


Rob Stone
said

Very difficult to understand how, after 35 seconds, and with an expected angry man (10 hour wait) the officers would choose to taser him as a 'quick fix' to a somewhat-undiagnosed problem!!! There need to be controls in place to ensure this sort of thing never recurs in our civilized society.


Paul
said

In my opinion, first of all, if someone is being held at the customs for ten hours any one of us would get mad especially when there is a language barrier and you can't really communicate with anybody. Socond of all, the RCMP officers took it way too far with their steps, I mean using the taser should be their last option.

jim
said

There is no necessity to use the taser when the man is unarmed, and these cops are trained to subdue, and there is a mob of them.

Craig
said

This was absolutely revolting. The man was clearly confused and desperate for whatever reason. The police clearly could have controlled him without the taser.

Martin Derks
said

It took me a long time to get to sleep last night after watching this ordeal on tv.

MikeLondon
said

No sensible person would think that the police officers intended to kill this man.

Kellie
said

This is a very sad situtation...All I would like to say is sorry to his mother, Canada is not really like this.


Annette
said

In my opinion, we're only discussing this because a man died...yes, it's tragic, however, if he hadn't died the police would not be under the microscope. There are too many situations these days that police get into where you never know the outcome. They were just doing their job.


Sarah
said

But Trent, he wasn't on an airborne aircraft.


Jeff
said

He arrived on an airplane which means he's already been through various levels of security. He was in customs for 10 hours which means he's obviously been through a secondary search.. which means, he's clearly got no weapons on him.

Sean
said

Imagine how you'd start acting after an eight-hour plane ride and then ten hours of being held up in Immigration...

All the same, his throwing the chair was a bit much.


Ottawa Man
said

Just picture yourself in this video instead of this poor Polish man, how would you feel if “YOU” arrived at Poland after a long flight, waited at their airport for 10 hours, can not speak Polish and then you’re faced with 4 police officers.

Mario
said

What ever happened to talking to someone agitated or even wrestling them to the ground and handcuffing them - at the most.

R. S.
said

People need to stop and think about something here. The police did not know if this person was armed when they approached. When you think that maybe the police could assume he's unarmed as he's been through airport security, then yes its a consideration. Then consider that the 4 RCMP officers present brought 4 handguns into the situation along with multiple other weapons. In a physical struggle, these weapons are not well enough secured to make it a safe situation.

Jim
said

A sad story. I can't watch the video, but changes should be made to immigration processing to avoid this disgraceful incident again.


Courtney
said

If only I was there and was able to speak Polish, I feel like I could have saved this mans life. All he needed was someone who could speak his own language. Why wasnt immigration prepared for this situation???


Mattao
said

This man was not fighting back, and should therefore not have been tazered. The police could have simply, as the mother said, arrested him. What happens if someone has a seizure in an airport and starts to act "irrationally".

EasternEurope
said

I travel twice a year to Eastern Europe to visit my family.
The trip is long, always two flights or more, long waiting times before, inbetween and after the flights.
It could be travelling for more than 20 hours from my home to my parents home.
You don't sleep and arrive in a state of fatigue close to coma.
Add to that 10 hours of extra waiting and you will have an idea of what Robert Dziekanski was going through.
It could have been my grandfather who doesn't speak english or french and comes to visit me, what then? Or my mather who comes because I have sponsored her?
Everybody in the airport is guilty of this tragedy, immigration, police, any airport clerk who saw that man in distress and didn't try to help.


Nicole
said

How could 4 police officers not have tackled the man down instead of using the taser first??!!!
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Robert Dziekanski today. What a tragedy.


Andy in Cambridge
said

If they used a taser on him, then they perceived him as a threat to themselves, and the public in general. It's tragic that he lost his life, however, airports are one place where law enforcement officials cannot take chances.


Jacqueline
said

It clearly seemed from the video, that the police were not interested in calming the man down. They did not ask for an interpreter to come.

JMA
said

Did this incident end tragically? Yes, absolutely. But perhaps this man's family and/or friends should have provided him with some written documentation that he could have used to communicate with security/airport staff before it got to this level.


Darren Macklin
said

Why didn't the RCMP officers simply wrestle the man to the ground? I would assume that physical submission techniques are part of the RCMP training regimen. I don't understand how 50,000 volts of electricity can replace old school submission holds.


Ray
said

I believe that the RCMP could have used better judgement in this case after all there was 4 of them. How can someone be left in a secured area for as long as he was without anyone approaching him what kind of security do they have???

Melinda
said

Absolutely sickening and revolting. I was in Mexico's airport alone and unable to be understood for just two hours and started to panic. That airport paramedics weren't called and absolutely nothing done to try to revive him makes it so much worse. That poor man.


Matt
said

You know, I work with kids, they get agitated, sometimes violent,, Ive even had one throw a compute off a desk. To think I could have just tasered him.

Theres no excuse for using a weapon on somebody in a 6 on one situation, even a usually non lethal weapon..


dan donoso
said

I'm disturbed by the video to say the least.
I unfortunately know how the police are trained. They are trained to act in the manner they did, we should really stop pointing fingers at the individuals and start thinking about proper training.


Mike Webster
said

It's pretty clear that the police acted appropriately in this case. The man was clearly out of control. He was vandalizing property. He was obviously resisting the police even after they hit him with the taser. It's unfortunate that he died but it's his own fault, not the fault of the police.


Zand
said

I spent three and a half hours at US Customs in Buffalo because my husband wasn't travelling with a Canadian passport (he's from the UK.) I know I was getting irate, and there was no language barrier there!

Yes the police have to do their job. Yes, they are protecting other passengers and employees. No it isn't necessary to taser someone.

Many people have commented that, "How do you know he wasn't carrying a weapon?" Security check prior to boarding airplane in Poland? Check. Detained for ten hours in Canadian Customs with, most likely, a secondary security check? Check. Tasered for the inability to communicate effectively with security and customs officials? Why should we accept that as part of the norm?

I hated that three and a half hours at the Buffalo boarder, and I told them so! But thankfully I didn't get tasered for it.


Jim Hagen
said

Wa Wa Wa....This man was acting violently and there are many question to be answered.
Why was he being held by immigration and. Again the public are without hearing all the details coming down on the RCMP. The media are lovin' this story!


Clare Childerhose
said

This is appalling.It is evident that this poor man was very frightened. Where in the world were the interpreters that are supposed to be at every international airport to help immigrants to communicate with officils? Just for one minute put yourself in that poor man's position and imagine the fear that he must have felt. 10 hours with no communication to find out what was going on. These officers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They are there to protect. I saw no evidence where they even tried to help this man. My thoughts and prayers go out to that poor mother who has lost her son so close to Christmas. This should have been a very happy time for both her son and herself, instead she has a funeral to prepare.


MD
said

For those who are using the argument "what if it were you stranded in a Polish airport for ten hours, etc." Well, I can assure you that I would not be throwing furniture. Why was this man held for ten hours? Perhaps there were security issues- or are we no longer allowed to have security because it might offend someone. If any of the people here think that they would have done differently- by all means sign up, the RCMP is recruiting- what's that? No takers? The work is too dangerous, too stressful? The hours are too long, too much time away from family?

Robert Schuster
said

Thank you for airing this video and allowing people to really see what happened.

I can honestly say after watching this event unfold, this death was absolutely preventable.

...
Regarding another viewers comment about the police not rendering or helping this man with first aid immediately once they realized something was terribly wrong is imo appalling at a minumum and a disgrace for every officer in uniform who has taken an oath to serve and protect.

Marc
said

There are plainly 3 failures here:
1. The airport for failing to deal with the situation when they saw that he was becoming agitated. They should have defused this situation through interpreter long before it got to this.
2. This man, no matter how long he was waiting, was out of control. I have waited longer periods in foreign airports and didn't become anything like this. People have to know what behavior is acceptable, and understand there will be consequences for acting this way. I dont think we would get treated very well in most countries for this behavior.
3. The bleeding heart armchair authorities who are police bashing. If you were there you probably would have done nothing but look in shock at the man and say that something should be done, but you are first in line to pity this out of control individual, and point fingers at the people who protect us and put (and lose)thier lives on the line for us. You were not in the situation, you cannot judge this. Your well being and possibly your life was not in danger, and you were not there to protect the public.

Steve
said

The police are there to make sure airports are safe. They don't know how dangerous anyone is or their intentions - and yet they are expected to resolve any situation and put themselves in possible danger to do it. It's unfortunate what happened but if it was most other countries including the US they would have shot him 10 minutes earlier make no mistake.


Craig
said

What is with the bleeding hearts in this country? Everytime something like this happens, people immediately blame the police.

The video clearly showed Dziekanski acting violently and irrationally while a woman tries to calm him down. He reacts by throwing a table at her. The RCMP arrive and surround him, Dziekanski throws his arms up and makes a motion to leave and the mounties use tasers to subdue him.

Why not put the blame on Dziekanski? If he didn't act up when he was upset, he would still be alive. I frequently get a little frustrated at the airport but I don't resort to throwing computers. Why didn't he ask for help or assistance. Why did he wait in the same place for 10 hours.

kamil
said

He shout "Police" in polish "policja", in my opinion he want to pay attention to himself after 10 hours of waiting.


Martin
said

It will be interesting to see what happens when Poland yanks its ambassador back to Warsaw and advises Harper that Poland will no longer participate in the Afghan mission.


Brad
said

You can clearly see from the video that when the police arrived he put up his hands and showed that he had no weapon. One of the officer then point for him to move up to the glass wall which he did and was just standing there not being a threat. With four RCMP officers there why did they the COPS use violence on a man looking for help?

Chelsa
said

Police are trained for all sorts of theats, potential dangers to the public as well as themselves. If this man was perceived as a threat to them, Why did they decide to tazer him instead of trying to subdue him the old fashion way, as they are trained to do?


Kenny Cursoe
said

The eye witness spells it out plainly and I watched the video as well. This gentleman was NOT A THREAT!

These cops get paid for doing a dangerous job. If one gets hurt in an altercation, that's just a day at work. If you can't handle the danger get out of the job. The guy just went through security, obviously had no weapons!!!!! Minimal if any injury would occur to these officers.

At least they deserve to be suspended until the investigation is done.... Ha another joke! How many of you people out there get suspended WITH pay?


Also Steven
said

Quote from Steven: "Non-violent people do not barricade themselves or throw things."

Oh, but I think they do. Is it not possible to think of someone who would barricade themselves or throw something without the intent of hurting others? Surely, if I were in an airport and wanted to hit someone with some object, it would be easy to do.

But, were the RCMP officers' actions reasonable for the situation? The courts will find out.








Kelly
said

I don't quite understand why this man was treated so violently! Understanding that this man is new to Canada and does not speak English..knowing that this man has just spent 10 hours waiting in security. I understand if he had a weapon, do whatever is needed but the man was simply in a country that he did not know, did not speak the language and we treat him like this? We have murderers walking the streets of our country unfortunately and they are not treated with such force as this man was. My heart goes out to his mother, just knowing that her son was coming to Canada to start a new life with her and not making it through the doors to touch our rich soil is very dishearting.


Carey
said

My family and I moved to Canada on May 1, 2004. My Father had come to Canada in February prior to us arriving.
It was an emotionally exhausting time, we had moved to Canada to live, knowing that we would never go back to South Africa.
The one advantage we had was that we could speak English and we had travelled internationally.
My Father too went through an agonizing wait at Vancouver airport. He had driven all the way from Cranbrook BC and too was hoping to drive us back to Cranbrook to show us the beautiful scenery.
Our flight was delayed and my Father waited for six hours at the airport. He approached immigration officials on numerous occasions and they kept telling him to wait. He asked if they could please go and check if we were in the immigration office. The staff supposedly looked and told him that we had not arrived. My Father was terrified! He had rented a limousine and driver for our grand arrival and we didn’t show up – it was awful.
After six hours he decided to go back to the hotel and start investigating. Luckily, we were released from immigration half an hour later and some generous citizen gave us a Toonie to call my Dad from a pay phone.
My heart broke when I saw the story about Robert Dziekanski and his mother. They too had come to Canada because it is a first world country with laws that makes is a safe country… What were the RCMP and immigration staff thinking? It was obvious that the man was frustrated and couldn’t speak English; his life could have been saved if the police had not been so trigger happy and called for an interpreter.
I also feel anger toward the staff of the Immigration officials, a simple act of kindness – taking a few steps could have saved Robert’s life. I hope the immigration department is also investigated. I thought waiting areas would be monitored by surveillance? Why did no one notice that he was missing in the second phase of checking in for landed immigrants?
Mrs. Dziekanski, know that a fellow immigrant’s heart goes out to you!



bryan
said

I think we all believe that police are trained to handle these incidents but it's just a nother reason showing either the lack of proper initial training new recruits receive or the type of people the police force is hiring these days.


Evan R
said

I would like to know where is the security camera footage. Surely they have had at least 2 cameras in that room, or do they not. Is that a loop hole in border security?


Earl Stopera
said

Dziekanski was not armed as he had gone through security and he was not a threat to the public or to the police. Why didn't the police try to subdue him without extreme force? Not an attempt was made even though their were at least four officers. The police made a mistake and I hope they learn from this incident. My condolences to his Mother. She has suffered a terrible loss.


Jason
said

They didn't even try to arrest him the just tasered him like it was nothing I'm shocked that this was the RCMP. Why was their no one trying to help this man, if the airport has a medical team they should have been there waiting just in case something went wrong... like it did.


Alex
said

This man must have been VERY stressed out. Imaging how would you feel after spending almost 8 hours on a plane plus 10 hours at the airport luggage area and you can't speak or understand English, tired, hungry exausted, not knowing what to do next and where his mother is...
His nerves just gave up.


Strumf
said

Shame on VPD, YVR, Immigration Office.
Shame on you Vancouver.



Chris M
said

This looks like another case where the RCMP wanted to play with their new toys instead of do their jobs as they have been trained to. The poor guy was obviously scared, tired, and confused. From what I'm reading, he was willfully surrendering before the RCMP officer shot him with the tazer. That is sheer ignorance. I hope the RCMP officers involved bear the full brunt

Laura Lee (Saudi Arabia)
said

This is an outrage! How could something like this happen in Canada? What is wrong with the RCMP? Why couldn't 4 officers get one man under control?

Gabriel DG
said

It is evident that even in this supposed "free" and "democratic" country, citizens need to be protected from the police, not by the police...

How much more obvious could it be that they were just itching to pull that trigger? How can one reasonably explaining tasering a man a second time after he has already been confined to handcuffs?


francesa
said

Once he was on the ground and no pulse was indicated why didn't anyone take proper action to assure that he had quick medical attention...that is the real issue here...if that was my son that would be my only question...why when there is a medical team on staff in the airport and they could have been there in 2 minutes...all airport officials and rcmp officers on the seen should have comunicated with medical officials...god sakes even 911 on their cell phones which I am sure one of them must have had with them.


Robert L
said

I dont know why these people are saying that the RCMP did not use way too much force. Why did they have to use the taser? There were four of them! Why didn't someone get someone who speaks polish? If they planned on using a taser why were the medical people not standing by?


CW
said

This man was acting irrationally and violently, he deserved to be arrested and charged, but he did not deserve to die. If the RCMP were following procedure and what they were trained to do, like some police officers have stated here, then that training has to change, remove the tasers from their possession and give them pepper spray or another tool that is not as deadly.


Mark
said

I'm appalled.

Yes, the RCMP should do their job -- but they didn't do their job properly.

While the guy did some wrong being violent, please imagine being a person expecting to see Mom right away, but got delayed in customs 10 hours, then let into the airport with no help, then being immediately attacked by the police after he tried to surrender to the police. RCMP are great people but something royally screwed up in this instance.

LM
said

I feel shocked, disgusted and ashamed as a Canadian. One must put themselves in that man's position before judging him. A non-English speaking immigrant, with no help from an interpreter, enduring over 10 hours of waiting with no food or drink. His body and mind reacted accordingly. A 'deadly' lack of communication both from the airport and the police. Negligence,pride and power prevailed over compassion, love and understanding-and this was the real tragedy. My heart goes out to the Dziekanski family.



DerekA
said

Some of the comments posted here seem to suggest that police officers were right when they used a weapon against an unarmed man. There were four police officers, and only one unarmed man seeming to surrender. He looked to be scared. Now he's dead.

Rod
said

There was absolutely no need to taser this victim who obviously was not aggressive upon the arrival of the police. You could hear in the video that one of the police asked if he could taser this man, before they even confronted him. This was a premeditated response. He was according to a newscast, tasered within 24 seconds of the police arriving. There was no attempt by the police to handle this situation any differently. Heads and careers have to roll after this one.


John from Vancouver
said

From my own experience, I was arrived from the US to Vancouver few days ago and was called by the first line office into the immigration office for further questioning (similar to Mr. Robert Dziekanski). I stayed in line for one and half hours and only one officer behind the counter was dealing with those people. She was "teaching" another two trainees at that time and there were at least 10 people in the line, including pregenant woman and senior people. The office didn't care about the line and kept doing "case study" with the trainees for 30 minites. I sit down and the officer asked me stand up. Finally, I was interviewed by the officer and clear with her in ONE minute. If I was feeling so tired and so frustrated by the experience, think about Mr. Robert Dziekanski's, after 10+ hours of flight and 10 hours waiting in the custom, how come could he not become mad??


Paul
said

I may be one of those in a rush to judge, but I'm curious to see how this could be interpreted as anything other then a rush to use force:
-they were in the room with him for 24 seconds before they tasered him?
-no attempts to find someone to communicate with him
-no time taken to look for a non violent resolution

Even if he hadn't died how can you say that is fair treatment? If you were in a new country and incapable of communicating with anyone would you feel that this is justified?


Wendy
said

Let's wait for the whole story. The media is very good at harvesting our emotions by showing us a part of what really happened.


Gustavo
said

This is very sad, but I hope it makes Vancouver's police to rethink its methods.


Cory
said

This man was probably just over tired, dehydrated and hungry all three of which can cause confusion and aggression, not to mention scared out of his wits because there was no one there me meet him for 10 hours . He was in the baggage area ( as his mother instructed him to do ). What he didn't know was that he was still in the customs area baggage claim which was restricted to travelers only so his mother did not have access to this secure part of the airport. If even one person had taken 4 min to walk the 100 meters ( the actual distance by the way ) to check the customs area for this man, this probably would not have happened.

Also i think tasers are a great alternative to having to shoot someone and a great tool for police, I also think the police are getting a little too quick on the draw with them since they are less than lethal.

Kim
said

It is always easy to look back after we have all the information and armchair judge the actions of the officers. Try to put yourself in the shoes of those officers, not knowing who he was, why was he agitated, what were his intentions.

What people have to understand is the police did not know anything about this man's situation at the time of the incident. All they knew was there as a large, violent man, throwing chairs and smashing computers.

A tazer causes no injuries, but physically attempting to arrest a large man can be extremely dangerous for the man and the police.

It is sad and unfortunate what happened but I think the police did what they thought was the safest and appropriate course of action.

We can't make police afraid to do their job or our society will be overrun by criminals.




susan
said

shame, shame, shame

Not only was I horrified at the 'help' that Mr.Dziekanski and his mother received from both the RCMP and Vancouver Airport Authorities, my 14 year old son was equally mortified and visibly shaken. Even he questioned the lack of interpreters with the RCMP. "Can they do that, mom?".

Short answer, no! Do they? Apparently! Will their behaviour make people think twice about asking for help and trusting that they will get the help they need? Probably!

I believe the country of Canada, Vancouver Airport Authority and our Royal Canadian Mounted Police owe the late Robert Dziekanski, and his bereaved mother an unquestionable apology.






Paul
said

The problem with this, besides an innocent man is dead; he was not a problem for the 10 hours he was in the airport, only the last few minutes before his death. There was no record of him acting irrational or dangerous on the plane.

He was probably frustrated with everything and that frustration would have been multiplied due to the language problem.

Dan
said

It's baffling to read the comments in support of the RCMP's actions here. What a disgrace.

I guess the shoot first, ask questions later modo is still in full swing here in Canada.

Kathy
said

Mr Dziekanski appeared agitated and unco-operative on the video. Passengers and Airport Security were unable to calm Mr Dziekanski resulting in a phone call to police. He was throwing tables and computer parts. It appeared to me the police, behind the glass area, were trying to reason with Dziekanski but to no avail. Two points - why did the mother not go to Airport staff to have her son paged after she was unable to locate him in the Airport? Mother could have borrowed the mic to page her son in Polish if there were no Polish speaking staff on duty? Has anyone done background checks in Poland to rule out mental health issues?


Mike
said

To all the people that don't seem to find the actions of the RCMP officers offensive, think of it this way; Robert could have been you, your father or your child. Do you still think the officers acted appropriately?


Dutch immigrant
said

It didn't look to me like the 4 police officers were in any danger from this unarmed man. Together they could have easily subdued him without using the Taser .... Why, oh why, didn't they call for an interpreter to speak to the man, give him something to drink, and get his mother? Canada may be multicultural, but as an immigrant I still think there is a lot of ignorance towards people who are from another country and don't speak English, including with Citizenship and Immigration.


Carter
said

Wow! Canada has filled up with law enforcement experts in the past few days.

I guess it's because you see the take-down on videotape that, of course, you all know what happened. Never mind that these kind of take downs happen all the time.

Do any of you know what involves subduing a man without a taser? What risks are involved? How things can go wrong, when facing someone who is demonstrating that they are prepared to be violent? (I can think of one such thing: guy bites you and you now have hepatitis. I can think of other scenarios, but I'll leave that out for now.) Have any of you had to do such a thing?


Scott M
said

I am very irritated with the media's coverage on this.

The presumption has not been that the RCMP acted reasonably but that an investigation will disclose if there were problems. No, the opposite is true.

If you watch the video it is clear this man was not of a right mind. Yet, we ask that the RCMP expose themselves to his violence instead of using the Taser

Why is this man's conduct not being questioned seeing as he is not a citizen and was here by "invitation" so to speak?

Once again, we as a country roll over on our values to fall on the sword of apology for our actions.



Rob
said

It is sad that this man died, that is never what a officer wants. I am not just trying to defend the RCMP, however I challenge anyone to try and just "take down" a large individual. Even if you are training in restraining someone it is not as easy as some seem to think. As a officer your need to protect yourself as well so that you can return to home safe to your family every night too.


Mike
said

If this had happened to a Canadian in a foreign land - there would be calls of brutality and "this would never happen in Canada" - well it just did! Shame on the RCMP and the Immigration Officials who could care less about people and more about procedure.

Jeff
said

Exactly they're trained to handle people like this, therefore with proper training they wouldn't need to taser the man! There were 4 rcmp officers there they didn't need to taser the man. This is so sad.

angie
said

I guess this is Canada's way of welcoming new immigrants.. Someone better start screening who is getting on the force this is getting down right scary.. I am less afraid when I go to Europe and I don't speak their language but they seem to go out of their way to help me..It is not a shoot first ask questions later attitude.. My heart go out to his Mother.. Welcome to Canada should come with a warning keep your head down and your mouth shut.


M. Elaine Karras
said

The public remains unaware of every thing that happened prior to the sad situations in which that the RCMP found them selves. I have worked with disturbed people and when the RCMP had to be called for help, they were/are the last resort!
Please back off the sensational reporting as it makes life very difficult for all involved.
Where was this man's family? How can he have been in the air port for 10 hours? Who was responsible for his dilemma? Any one who has spent even 2 hours waiting, it seems about 10 times longer.


Courtney
said

The police have taken down more violent men that are on drugs, holding knives with less violent force. That is what they are trained to do. Untrained people could have taken this man down.

L
said

The RCMP did nothing to try and diffuse the situation, they weren't there long enough to even try. The only attempt made was by another traveller. If a lone woman with no training did not feel threatened by the situation, then 4 grown men who are trained to handle hostile situations should have made some attempt to do so!


OD
said

For those few who think the police acted by the book, read the book first.

How about taking a look at his passport and figuring out where he was coming from, than ask if there is a person that speaks that language?

Nobody tried to resuscitate the guy. Nobody called the paramedics. He is dead? Fine, mission accomplished. He's not from North America so nobody will sue, right?

The guy was acting irrationally, but who would not after 10 hours of waiting? He clearly was not going to kill or injure anybody; he was just trying to draw attention.

John
said

As an RCMP officer, I can say that procedure was clearly not followed. This is a disgrace!


Blake
said

I dispise the "Oh well, he didn't make it" attitude of the RCMP. They know how to do CPR! There should have been some very hurried calls, and some interm medical procedures taking place until the ambulance arrived.

Tracy
said

Please, this is a major international airport. You can not tell me that there was not someone at the airport that could speak to him. In 10 hours they certainly could have arranged for that.

He was obviously very afraid, you could see it in his eyes. Why do 4 officers already holding someone down need to jolt him more than once?

Cameron
said

I am completely in agreement with police protecting themselves, but the tasering did not look necessary to me. Tasering should be reserved for when an officer feels threatened and wants to use non-lethal force. Four RCMP should be able to deal with an unarmed man without feeling threatened.


immigrant
said

I could have come to the same position as a poor man.
My story is: I was coming to Toronto from Eastern Europe and my appearance was not too Canadian (my face was not shaved and I was standing too close to the next person in line to passport/visa control). So, they asked me to go to immigration office, where they took all my documents and I was told to answer personal questions about myself (birth date, date when I first had come to Canada, where did I work, my address and so on). It took them not long to identify my personality (since I could speak some English). If I were not able to speak English/French, I could have spent hours without my papers waiting for something.
P.S. personal space (distance to the next person) is different in different cultures



Tom
said

First of all you don't assume somebody is armed and dangerous just because they are angry and don't speak your language. Second of all, stop defending the RCMP because they have a 'tough job'. This argument is borderline idiotic. Our whole society is built on the rule of law; so we have every right to scrutinize the actions of those who enforce it. Next time your close one gets shot in the head by a cop for no reason, I'm sure you'll feel consoled in the fact that the cop has a 'tough job' and was 'stressed out' and that 'nobody else will do his job so its ok'. Give me a break.


Another MD
said

I was watching this video and could not help noticing that the man DID NOT threaten anybody, he was trying to get somebody's attention! He did not throw a piece of furniture at anybody, he was making noise! After more that 20 hour flight and 10 hour of being neld without any assistance, he was hungry and dehydrated. Add an extreme fatigue and stress, and we get a very confused and agitated man, but dangerous? Did he display any weapon? Did he throw anything towards the officers? I see every day in the hospital I work that very violent patients are subdued WITHOUT Tasers and with no problems. Why did they Taser him?


MGM
said

If you watch the video carefully you will see, just after he's tasered, that he had something in his hand (right) - a stick or something - weapon? The guys did what they had to. He's smashing stuff at the airport..is this normal. The outcome is unfortunate, I do feel for his family.


Brad Stephan
said

Let them do their job? What happens when its you that they decide to detain for ten hours and when you get upset because you can't understand them they tazer you to death?

Dean
said

I agree with Dave (see below). Dziekanski should have never had to spend 10 hours in the airport. The cops are taking the heat for someone else's mistake.


James
said

A police officer cannot immediately identify an unarmed individual as a non-threat. What if the man had grabbed one of the officers' guns in the scuffle and shot a couple of them? Would everyone feel as sorry for this man?

Further, since when is it the police's responsibilty to have interpretors available for people they are looking to quesions or incarcerate.

Did the man's mother ask immegration for help to locate her son? Why would she just simply leave the airport?

Too many unknown factors here to point fingers already?


Diane Walle
said

It is time to reconsider the use of Tasers. The police were at no time under threat as is obvious from this video their reaction is irrational and vicious. To think we tell our children to trust the police to help them if they are in trouble.


L.Hamilton
said

Question: How many RCMP officers does it take to handle a lost and terrified man who can't speak English in an enclosed area of a strange airport in a strange country, when that man has been without food, water and bathroom facilities for 10 hours?
Answer: 6 RCMP plus a taser apparently. Shameful. Sickening and shameful. And although the airport administration said he wasn't embarrased by the incident or by the obvious incompetence of his airport staff and the border staff...I, as a natural born Canadian citizen sure am embarrassed.How would any of us feel or act in the same circumstances in his country? I guess we'd be arrogant.


Mohamed Bakr
said

My parents, who do not speak English, just left us safely back to Egypt. I was so worried when they arrived on what is going to happen because of their lack of English. The security in Montreal airport told me that they have agents who speak all languages and indeed they found someone who could help them go through. I wonder why something like this did not happen with this poor guy?. Who is responsible for the loss of this innocent life?. My heart goes to his mother and the rest of his family!.


Paul F.
said

The problem is that the media rushes to sensationalize the story for ratings and as usual everyone rushes to judgement before all the evidence is collected. We are not aware of all the facts and once again, the investigation could be tainted by an apparent rush to judgement. Why do you think that police proceedure involves withholding information from the media?

Ryan
said

I was at the airport at the time of the incident. Unfortunately I only witness from the moment when the police used the tasers. The force they used seemed extreme, I gave the police the benefit of the doubt that they tried to communicate and that the man was being extremely combative. This obviously was not the case. I also find it strange that the police say there was only three officers there when I counted four.

adam
said

After reading several comments on this issue you will see a dichotomy of reactions. On one hand, some view the victim as acting hostile and that the police were simply following procedure. On the other hand, some perceive the actions of the victim as harmless and the police action as excessive. Do not blame the victim or the RCMP. If one needs to point the finger at who is to blame, it is our current “zero tolerance” policies surrounding airport security.

Shane
said

With his hands raised the four police members should have had no problem restraining and arresting this man without using weapons of any kind (lethal or non-lethal).


Michael
said

Police are trained to deal with criminal not with lost immigrants that can not speak English. I have traveled in many countries and been lost; fortunately I have always had lots of money to get myself out of any bad situation or never found myself in a country where nobody was willing to help me. It is beyond me how someone had not called a translator or reached out to help this man. Words can not describe my deep disappointment in my fellow Canadian and the RCMP; shame on us!


Steven
said

I find it sad this could of been prevented if they would have had someone there that understood his language.Why with so many officers there would they need to use the taser I think they should look into limiting the taser action.


Jacek
said

I can't understand why airport stuff didn't try to find a translator. There is a Polish Consulate in Vancouver, it wouldn't be difficult!


Jeff
said

The video clearly show no confrontational situation at all. If the RCMP are justifying their usage of the taser because they were trying to prevent a confrontation, then please next time you pull someone over for speeding or erratic driving, taser the person first because they might have a weapon or he/she might cause a scene. Then give them a ticket. Way to go RCMP.


anonymous
said

My guess is that he was waiting for his mother in baggage, not knowing he had to continue out. It's happened to friends of mine. It's not obvious you have to continue onward after clearing immigration, especially for someone who had never flown before, as was the case here, and not knowing the language. Sad that no-one helped him for 10 hours....


Mark G.
said

If we let this go, if we accept this as "business as usual", if we say that this man's life was not important and of value, then we are lost a society and this is another example of our decline.And if we get used to these kinds of events, there will be more.

CLS
said

Clearly no-one was interested in helping in this situation. Immigration detained the man for 10 hours, that is more than a regular 8 hour shift... so by normal working standards the original immigration officer who detained this man wasn't even there anymore... classic example of how the buck gets passed on... so now the question is what was immigration trying to do in the 10 hours leading up to this incident? (Fly a translator in from Poland???) In partial defence of the RCMP they didn't seem to know what the situation really was. I say partial defence because from the footage they didn't seem to have had a conversation with anyone to try understand what was going on (not even with the airport security officer standing around)they walked in and "handled" the situation.

MD
said

It really is a sad, sad state of affairs. I guess this will be one more notch in Canada’s ever expanding bully belt. This excessive use of force indicates and illustrates the poorly designed and implemented policies which in turn reflect poorly on the police, airport personnel and CIC in general. It’s not an issue of people “bashing” the police for doing their jobs. It’s an issue of the lack of personal initiative, self direction and discretion that is sadly lacking with the public service. It really is a sad state of affairs, where the public is not even allowed to express outrage and demand accountability.


Maybe its time to re-visit the policies and protocols that govern these agencies. Incorporate some compassion and decency. Have interpreters and refreshments available. If your standard policy is to detain for an indefinite period of time, offer a snack, periodic bathroom breaks. They are not barnyard animals. They are human beings.


John Schertzer
said

I am a retired police officer. They overreacted and an inquest will no doubt show that.


dave
said

We have witnessed a public execution.....nothing less!! The abuse Canadians have suffered because of tasers has resulted in deaths before, but nothing like this public display of disrespect for human life, by those who are suppose to "serve and protect".
This kind of action by the police will only result in more animosity from the public escalating to the point where normally law abiding citizens will start protecting themselves by any means from the police for fear of being abused.


Craig C
said

I cannot believe the various people here defending the police. Do you all have vision problems or what. The guy was in a room for 10 hours, no food , no water, no communcation and somehow some of you think it is reasonable to taser a guy, not once but twice and put your knee on his neck to boot. The guy was down for the count and they taser him again then climb on top of the guy. Nice work guys!! Give your heads a shake will you. That guy did not deserve what happened to him, I think 4 big cops were more than a match for this poor guy. It strikes me as interesting that the first thing out of the cops mouth is can I use my taser.

Ron Tanguay
said

If the RCMP is trained to handle these situations, those 4 officers must have missed that part of the training, as they totally misjudged the situation. As others mentioned, why didn't anyone try to revive him or call paramedics. This is totally not acceptable in a country like Canada.


WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD
said

IF A PERSON WALKED UP TO ANOTHER PERSON AND KILLED THEM FOR NO REASON THEY WOULD BE CHARGED WITH MURDER OR MANSLAUGHTER!


Carol
said

Every police that uses the taser should experience the taser before using.There is a lack of training/education.
They are taught how to negotiate and control people without this form of control --totally not necessary. The man was not armed with any weapons. This is an awful reputation for tourists/visitors to Canada.
The Vancouver airport authorities should be investigated for lack of assistance to the man. Why was he allowed to be in that area for so long? They knew he arrived from Poland what were they thinking? No interpretor etc.


John
said

This needs to be investigated further. First, get all the evidence, including statements from the involved RCMP, and civilian witnesses. Canadian Customs should have more video evidence available. Then, from all the evidence, determine whether proper police procedures were followed. If it wasn't, then the involved officers need to be disciplined in an appropriate fashion. If proper procedures were followed (and that seems unlikely), then we ask whether those police procedures need to be changed.


jon
said

marj,

Wrong. Police used to be well trained for incidents like this. Subduing someone by hand is dangerous, and so the first resort used to be discussion and persuasion. Now, the first resort appears to be using the "non-lethal" device you've been issued to bring the situation to a close quickly, and you pull a Taser. It's pretty obvious some people react very badly to being electrocuted, and they don't have a label on their foreheads. Just as you wouldn't shoot someone who is causing a disturbance with a pistol right after walking up to them, it seems obvious we shouldn't be immediately shooting them with a Taser either. Make the Taser something other than the first choice for police officers, before a lot of other people die because of it.


Liz
said

Does anyone know excactly the cause of this man's death? I mean maybe he had a heart condition and was not strong enough to resist tasering. I don't think the cops wanted to kill him.


andrimitum
said

The only question that needs to be answered is whether the Taser is first resort, second, third, or whatever. My understanding is a Taser is a less harmful and violent way of dealing with a criminal than physical restraint. People are seriously injured while being physically restrained, and it is more likely that the physical restraint (officer kneeling on the man) after the tasering killed the man. Also while the man's death is regrettable I would start the investigation with Customs officials and the 10 hour delay. Not with the RCMP who were CALLED IN for the PURPOSE of RESTRAINING and ARRESTING a VIOLENT man in an AIRPORT.


Mark G
said

It is very clear the RCMP over reacted and made a big mistake. What bothered me the most was there was no attempt at CPR on this poor soul. They let him lay there and die. Shame on them.


ThomasChan
said

There are reasons for police to apply forces when deemed necessary, however, there is no reason for excessive forces, period!


brett
said

I think the main point is missed here, no one expcected the guy to die from a taser. The police used as much force as they deemed for the situation. As for having interpreters present and calling for this guys mom; you guys are nuts, I pay more than enough taxes already, to have an interpreter that speaks every language available at every international airport in Canada is not plausible. This man acted violently and was treated as a violent person, Case closed.


Bevin
said

rebuutatl to the posting from:
"Craig C
I cannot believe the various people here defending the police. Do you all have vision problems or what. The guy was in a room for 10 hours, no food , no water, no communcation and somehow some of you think it is reasonable to taser a guy, not once but twice and put your knee on his neck to boot. The guy was down for the count and they taser him again then climb on top of the guy. Nice work guys!! Give your heads a shake will you. That guy did not deserve what happened to him, I think 4 big cops were more than a match for this poor guy. It strikes me as interesting that the first thing out of the cops mouth is can I use my taser. "

REBUTTAL - no Craig C, this guy was not in a room for 10 hours. you need to research this story before you start pointing fingers. If any of you are familiar with the International arrival areas of YVR you will know that yes, he was in what is supposed to be a "secure " area. but all it is the area where you drop off your luggage AFTER you have left the customs restricted area for connnecting flights. There is supposed to be agents from various airlines there, but at midnight, there are none. There is a glass door that swings open and allows entry to the greeting area next to the Elephant and Castle Restaurant. Even though you are supposed to not be able to return to the so called area, you can. And apparently no one stopped him from re-entering or remaining there. Therfore, the police have to treat him as high risk based on the fact that he is clearly displaying aggression and violent behaviour and the unkown poccibility of him being armed. We need to look at this for what it is - a tragic death. But in the end the officers have a RIGHT to be protected too doing a job that so many are quick to criticize but few are willing to do.

sal
said

Why hasn't a translater been called in to tell us what he is saying on the video? That would give us a better idea of his mind set.


Linda
said

I saw this tragedy this morning and it made my soul grieve for both him and his mother. I cried all the way to work. I don't think I have ever witnessed such an unnecessary unhuman act against another human being. From the look on the man's face he was so scared. Why didn't anyone in the airport get him an interpretor? I am shocked that human beings can be so inhumane and uncaring.


Ted
said

I wonder if someone had thought to simply walk up to the man with a coffee, some food and a quiet voice, if the results would have been different.

I believe that we would all act differently with a simple act of kindness in a situation like that. Language need not be a barrier. Has the fear of terrorism in airports today taken away our humanity?

Lastly, isn't it time that we review the use of the "non lethal" taser? This is not the first death from a restricted weapon/device that has been incorrectly lauded as a safe method of restraint


Peter
said

In the eyes of the world, Canada should be held to account.
More specifically, YVR and the RCMP should be held to account. This was clearly an unjustified abuse of power on the part of police.
Take the Tasers away !


Nathalie
said

I too was a victim of tazer by police in Jan 2007...the similarity to this case is so very real except that even though I toowas tazered 2x while laying in the snow & ice, thinking I would surely die...I lived.


ance
said

I think the biggest issue here is that police have become complacent about taser use because they consider it harmless.

I believe the taser should only be used in situations where the officer would have considered using deadly force if no such thing as a taser existed.

That should be the litmus test for whether taser use is appropriate.


Dallas
said

To all those supporting the police use of the taser: how can the police have deemed the man a threat if several civilian witnesses say he wasn't? This is just another case of excessive police brutality. Plain and simple.


Todd
said

Cowardly and heartless act by the RCMP. Let's see if Mr.Day or any RCMP spokesperson will have the courage to call it as it is. Doubt it.


Ernst
said

I am in total agreement with what many people have mentioned here; this situation is sad and tragic and should never have happened, but I feel too much attention has been put on the RCMP and the tasering, pushing focus away from what I feel is the real crime here, that a non-English speaking traveller was held for 10 hours in an 'international' airport, and that no one has been held accountable for this, or come forward to explain why he was held or not helped in his mother-tongue, so that he could understand what was happening. I agree that police seem trigger happy sometimes, but I can't rush to fault people who's job involves split second reactions and decisions in heated, spontaneous moments, especially when there was TEN hours to work it out before they arrived!!! More than RCMP heads need to roll here. But who? Let's have someone from the Immigration Dept, Customs, Government, or YVR come forward with enough balls to explain this craziness, instead of hiding behind all of the RCMP focus.


Jim
said

Yes, the RCMP did use way too much force on him, but the real problem that caused this mess, is with the Vancouver International Airport and staff. The dead man's mother was in the airport for hours, asking about her son, but the airport people told her to go home (in other words: stop bothering us.) If an employee of the airport had simply walked into the baggage claim section they would have found him and helped him find his mother... End of story.


J. Donovan-McDonald
said

How dreadfully sad! It would have been so much easier for this gentleman if he had had his mothers name and address and phone number to carry with him - ESPECIALLY since he didn't speak English.

I do this for all the people coming to visit me if they do speak the language.


Adam
said

My heart goes out to Mr. Dziekanski's mother and family. However lets not jump to conclusions about blaming anybody until this matter has been investigated.


Wayne H
said

I worked at a maximum federal institution at age 23. "The RCMP killed that man legally". Perhaps the RCMP should send all recruits to a prison prior to their tranining without any form of defence in most cases except for talking big time. Very SAD.
Wayne from Winnipeg


Steve G D
said

Maureen: are you seriously suggesting that it is acceptable for police offers to be hit with chairs.
And to all those of you who believe that the police offers should have tackled this guy instead of using tasers, why would the cops risk their safety for someone who is BREAKING THE LAW. Believe it or not, throwing computers and chairs around in an international airport is unlawful.
And let's get this straight, this man was NOT DETAINED, he voluntarily waited in the luggage area for 10 hours.
This is an unfortunate incident brought about by this man's poor judgment.


Candace
said

This is such a tragedy. This man was obviously upset and agitated. It is also clear that there was a communication barrier. I have no doubt that the officers were doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. However I would not be comfortable making the decision to use a potentially lethal weapon on an individual without a clear understanding of what was going on and with out knowing what he was saying how could they possibly have known that? This is an international Airport and we should not put any individual in the position to make decision without all the tools necessary to so.


ToddS
said

I am all for the use of reasonable force! However, this force was certainly unreasonable!

Tasers are too easy. It seems the rcmp resorted to the taser because they were unwilling to do their job. How do I draw this conclusion? I see it as they took the easy way out rather than engage the individual by using only necessary means (not all means necessary! ie. Getting an interpreter, then physically subduing him if it came to that) It appears that they resorted to step three which should have been employed had the individual produced a weapon such as a knife. Yes, tasers are better than deadly force (ie. firearms) However, it is only logical that an officer should not use a shotgun against a knife if they have a taser or in this case a taser against an unarmed man who presented little challenge to numerous officers and security at their disposal. Surely, this man presented little danger to these officers in a very controled environment.

To all who argue that we are to not debate this in public is to commit intellectual suicide and buy into the belief that the elitists know best. Which seems to me an ignorant and irrational response. If we don't engage this in the public arena shame on us! Maybe, more information will shed light on this... but maybe it won't. Sometimes I believe you need to call a spade a spade. You really do us a disservice when you appeal to reason and deny it at the same time.




PirateGen
said

Who are you sheep? This is a question of human rights abuses, but since it happened to a foreigner, our beloved police could never be to blame. Democracy comes with the obligation to question our laws and their enforcement. It is only by evaluating performance that we are able to improve. I will support the police when they are right. When they abuse their powers or do not act professionally, they deserve to be challenged so no, Marj ursel, I won't "just let them do their job (taser and kill innocent civilians??). The video cleary shows they intended to taser him before they even spoke one word to him.

My sympathies to Mr. Dziekanski's family. Fortunately when I travelled alone in foreign countries where I did not speak the language, my human rights were never abused like this.


Marlene
said

I recently flew on a TWO hour flight where an 18 year old male flying for the first time experienced an Anxiety Attack. The flight attendant on the West Jet Flight called for medical assistance from the passengers. I ended up holding this 18 year old's hands the entire flight. He was able to let go of my hand as the plane touched down in Winnipeg. Myself an RN and another MD came to his rescue.

I can only speculate how this man at the Vancouver airport felt. Why was he not assisted by the airport staff BEFORE the RCMP arrived.


Danny
said

I think there are a few things that need to be looked at regarding this terrible situation where a person lost his life. I fully agree with many of you with regards to a translator being present. I think in desperate measures it would have been acceptable to even broadcast if someone in the airport could translate, considering the circumstances and amount of time he was detained I don't think it would have been inappropriate. I also believe that there probably was someone present at YVR to at least translate the basics. As per the RCMP's handling...I'm not qualified but this was not a night club, pub, or any crazy event where we may find people behaving inapropriately for reasons due to alcohol or drugs, this man may have not been able to comprehend what was happening and panicked, we all handle things differently.


Samuel
said

If you find this to be a reasonable and measured response by the RCMP, then perhaps you need to ask yourself how committed you are to CANADIAN values: unbiased and respectful treatment of all people, cultural sensitivity, open and honest communication, and accountability (values taken verbatem from the RCMP's mission statement).
I see none of these values reflected in the RCMP's actions in dealing with this MAN, not monster, nor terrorist - a lost, scared and irrational man who was in need of RCMP help that spoke to our values, not violated them. And how sad and tired is the retort "just doing their job"? This is cowardice extraordinaire...surrendering individual moral imperative to an ORGANIZATION. This is the cowardly kind of submission that pounds a path straight into into an Orwell's 1984...not the Canada I had in mind for my kids.


A Canadian living in the U.S.
said

We can never know what police have to deal with on a day to day basis, but from the video this man did not appear to be a threat to so many officers. I'm sure the taser served as a harmless & risk-free way of ending the situation. Unfortunately, for this misunderstood and confused man, it wasn't. My heart goes out to his family and to the officers. Clearly this was an unfortunate event for everyone. Hopefully this will show once again that tasers are not as harmless as once thought and that restraint should be employed in their use.


jeff
said

I am a police officer. There certainly are lots of armchair quarter backs here. Firstly, we saw one video, shot from a distance, which shows SOME of what actually happened. We do not have the benefit of a number of camera angles and none of us were in that room.
Secondly, there will be, as is standard practice, a full inquiry into what happened, which will include ALL of the facts, not just what we see in the video. Perhaps at THAT time, we can better draw a conclusion as to whether the situation warranted the response.


Dan
said

proper training would never had led to using a taser in this situation... police are required to use as much force as is necessary to maintain the peace... the man had his arms in the air and was not showing signs of aggression or resistance... it was appalingly bad decision making and handling of the situation by airport staff, security and the members of the RCMP

Roy Herold
said

Well, here is a comment from South Africa for consideration:
I completed my National Service under our previous government, and was trained to perform many sorts of violence. There were occasions when I had to employ my training to subdue people. I also have worked in nightclubs and bars where people occasionally needed to be ejected from a premise, or physically overpowered and controlled. I have never before seen such indiscriminate use of force - even in the bad old days here in S.A. We had (and as far as I am aware the same holds true in any civilised country) the principle of minimum force drummed into us: to only use the least amount of force necessary to achieve the immediate objective. In a situation like this one, the first thought in my mind would be that there was a strong possibility of a medical/psychological emergency occurring, and I would proceed with that in mind whether I could speak the person's language or not. The unfortunate fact remains that Tasers are just too easy to use - because they are "non-lethal". These cops are not worthy of the name, and should face the full force of the law that they have (presumably) sworn to uphold. Their behaviour reminds me of the worst sort of nightclub bouncer.
But what appals me is that anyone could have the gall to support their actions. For shame! To condone blatant thuggery is to ask for a beating oneself...


Rick
said

Let's see, 4 big guys in good shape who are rested and ready to rock and roll versus one out of shape guy who is tired and ready to collapse...what's the worst that could have happened to them? One of them gets a fat lip and the rest of them subdue the guy and put the cuffs on him. (he was in a secure area and there was no possiblility of him even having a pair of nail clippers as we all know)
This is an over reliance on technology instead of basic policing skills in my opinion. I'm a big supporter of the police but this is just wrong what happened to this poor guy.


Serge
said

My god, the airport staff at YVR is clearly incompetent! Instead of trying to guess which language this man speaks, they should have asked for his passport which would have clearly shown he's from Poland. Then, they could have easily found a polish speaker and try to calm him down. Even with the RCMP showing up, they could have communicated with him via the interpreter instead of using a taser!



Irene Paris
said

The incident with the taser was deplorable and, appeared totally uneccessary..... but my question is this.......

After Mr. Dziekanski was processed by the immigration staff at the airport why did they not escort him out to the arrivals area where his mother was waiting...... they surely knew that he did not understand english, and needed help.


John K
said

When I saw the video of the events which led to the death Mr. Dziekanski, I was horrified. First it should never have escalated to this stage. The immigration department should have tried to help him. Second, why didn't the security staff see him wandering around long before he became so distraught, what do they do at YVR? I don’t think you have to speak the language in order to help someone. Third the RCMP should have enough common sense to approach him with the sole purpose of diffusing the situation. He was not a criminal and wasn’t armed. Yes he broke some furniture, throwing furniture was his way of trying to get attention and help. Help is what he needed, and it’s sure not what he got. I think the video speaks for itself. What took place in the last few minutes of his life was a travesty. Everyone involved in this case should be held accountable for the part they didn’t play in this event.
I’m still horrified, “Thank God” the video was taken.



KK
said

It's a sad day in Canada when Canadians are split over whether or not FOUR ARMED RCMP officers acted with excessive force in using a taser gun to deal with ONE UNARMED NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING man.


Owen
said

Should there not be a private or third party inquiry into the RCMP's actions, I don't think it would be fair for them to investigate their own, it would be conflicting don't you think. When the incident took place the man had actually not cleared customs,( With no stamp on his passport, does it mean you are actually in Canada, or international territory). The Polish Authorities should be able to investige this incident as well, considering it was pre-meditated, as you can hear on the Video, they where going to taser him before they even saw him. I'd like to apologize to Poland and this man's family on behalf of all Canadians who care.


Don
said

This is a terrible event for which we all feel sympathy and sadness. But we must remember that the police used the same non-lethal restraint technique that has brought about peaceful resolutions to thousands of other volatile situations, and there was no reason to expect a different outcome this time. We should not be so quick to spew moral outrage just because we have the luxury of hindsight wisdom.


Craig
said

I'm willing to bet that if Dziekanski was an English speaking Canadian citizen that shouted at officials, threw computers and tossed a table at an innocent woman, the comments here would be quite different.

Just because there is a language barrier doesn't give him an excuse to cause a commotion.

Also, you have to get your facts straight. Dziekanski voluntarily waited for 10 hours, he was not being detained. Why he didn't ask for help or imply that he wanted assistance is the question that needs to be asked.


Kendra
said

There is clearly more to this than what the video shows. I don't believe that Canadian officers would taser a man just because he appears agitated. It is my opinion that the rest of the story will eventually come out. We need to back off on the officers just a bit, and trust them for once. There had to be a reason.


Shirley
said

I emailed a letter previously and i agree with Robert, why are their not translators for those of other languages at the airport- of all places. This poor scared man was killed. Its outrageous! Being tasered 1 time is ENOUGH! He was being submissive to the police.!!!


Jordan
said

I can't believe some people are attempting to justify the use of force on an unarmed individual. There were FOUR police officers with training, for crying out loud!

Are people seriously suggesting that the ONLY way for four large men to subdue a confused immigrant is to shock him with electricity TWICE?


lnhan
said

It took merely 20 second after the RCMPs met the unarmed guy and they decided to zap the poor guy. I don't see the logic of their action. I pray to God that they will give me more time than that if such thing ever happens to me.


Peter
said

All of the media are making this look like the Police intended to kill this person. This person from what I watched was going nuts and if I was a police officer in the same situation I would have done the same thing. They have there Tasers to take down this kind of person action in that manor and that is what they did, there job. The Media are saying 28 seconds was much to face but if he had hurt someone then the Media would have said why didn't they use their Tasers. Looks like a catch 22 situation for the Police in the Media eyes. To all of you Media people, the police don't have a camera to hide behind with the big zoom lens that make it look like your right there in the action. Big difference from being face to face with this kind of person than hiding with your camera trying to get footage to discredit our Police Officers.


Wojtek
said

Steve G D wrote:

"And let's get this straight, this man was NOT DETAINED, he voluntarily waited in the luggage area for 10 hours."

Oh, I see. They said to that confused man: "Prosze Pana, moze Pan wyjsc tymi drzwiami!" ("Sir, you can exit with that doors!") and he respondend: "Nie, dziekuje. Dobrowolnie tu zostane" ("No, thanks. I will stay here voluntarily")...

Let me put this straight. His mother asked officials about her son's whereabouts and no one helped her. If you know that there is a man waiting way too long in a luggage area it shouldn't be too hard to connect him with that question. It's obvious that by throwing chair and computer he wanted to get an attention as he could not communicate in english. Yes, it was a bad idea but for Gods sake, people do worse things when they feel unsafe and confused. First "shot" was unneeded but the next one is simply a crime as the guy was already laying on the floor helpless. Do something like that in Poland and you will be suspended and charged immediately.


Gibsona
said

Without a doubt, this was a tragic outcome. However, as many have said already, it's always easier to judge and blame the RCMP, YVR security, Immigration Canada in hindsight given this individual's sad story. This is post 9/11 and I for one am glad Customs Canada takes their time in processing people into our country.

I have also been a stranger in a foreign country where I don't speak the language. I have even been in stressful/scared situations in foreign airports where I didn't speak the language. That does not justify throwing things and barricading yourself no matter how tired and scared you are.

This person is a grown man! He's not some underaged kid waiting for his mother to help him. He's not from a 3rd world country who's never seen modern civilization. I've been to the airport in Poland and I would be surprised if I can find someone immediately who can speak my native tongue (not English). For some reason, the media is not asking the question of why he has not made arrangements with his mother/her friends/relatives that he can call in case they missed their connection with each other or he gets delayed at the airport. Logic would say that if this is your first time into any country and you are a brand new immigrant landing at the airport, you will likely get delayed by immigration. Canada is easy to get into but not that easy!

It seems all the onus is placed on Canada and our services or lack of as soon as someone lands here.


Mackay
said

In today's society, you can't go into an airport and start throwing computers on the ground and tables at windows without suffering consequences. He had plenty of chances to calm down and comply with authorities. The fact that he can't speak English isn't our problem, Canada's official language is English, can't speak it, too bad. If I went to Russia, I wouldn't expect them to speak English and French so deal with it. There's no way we could put a translator for every language in every international airport in this country. Cops did their job just fine as far as I'm concerned, he shrugged them off and walked away. Why should they put themselves in harms way when they can subdue a person with a taser. I say good work to the cops but this is nonetheless a tragedy. If the taser needs to be put under a microscope then so be it, but don't blame the cops.


Brogie
said

I am so sick of armchair quarterbacks who have never had to fight someone giving their opinion on topics like this. This man refused help from a female, barricaded himself and threw a computer at the window. When police approached he walked away because he was not going to comply. Those officers did everything right. The taser is used to avoid having to get into a physical altercation because that is when the offender and the officers get hurt. They didn't use any more force than was necessary and any police officer viewing this will say the same. Remember that this is the airport where security is going to be stepped up because of terrorism. Who knows if he wasn't carrying a bomb on him? Police are trained to deal with a threat immediately. They did nothing wrong. Try watching the video from beginning to end. Even the guy taking the video swears and asks "where are the police?". That was a text book arrest for all those who know nothing about the subject. CTA are you listening?


G.R. Williams
said

Several correspondents appear to blame his mother and ask why she didn't have hime paged.

She did!! But incredibly the public area PA system doesn't extend into the secure area.

Have we become so focussed on the one in a million problem traveler that we have fogotten that most air travellers are tired, dehydrated, hungry, and often disoriented.

The Airport Authority and Federal bureaucrats have as much to explain as the RCMP.


G.R. Williams
said

My grandfather was an English "bobby" in the very tough North Docks area of Liverpool.

No gun, no Taser, no radio, not even a nightstick, just a short truncheon and his ability to deal with people.

Yet somehow he dealt with knife wielding drunk sailors every day without getting himself or them killed.

Obviously some basic police skills have been lost.



Neil
said

Go to Poland and see what would happen to you if you acted the same as that man. Our police may carry tasers but their's carry sub-machine guns. The police were just doing their job. Why should they have to tackle an irate individual and risk injury, that's why they have tasers.


Supporter!
said

People, none of us were there. The young man who taped this should be ashamed of himself. You maybe believe you have done a justice for this man but all you have done is cause more pain to his mother (glad to see you didn't hesitate to sue, nice priorities you have). I support the police in most things they do, I certainly don't have the courage to strap on a bullit proof vest, wear a gun that I am never allowed to draw, and arrest the worst of human beings on a daily basis, and from what I read none of you do either. Oh for those of you who apparently cannot read, the coroner's report indicated no apparent cause of death. There is no blame here, just fault, YVR, CBSA, his families, and the police for having to subdue a man. Why is everyone so set that this is some great crime that has been committed, it was an accident of errors. I feel sorry for his mother but i have to say if my son was coming in, I wouldn't care how many hourse it was I wouldn't leave the ariport under any circumstance until I knew where he was. Why did this area of the airport not have security camera's anyway? For shame on all of you for putting down the people who put their lives on the line every day, who haul out and do their jobs in the face of violence. I sleep better knowing that the RCMP did what they had to do to protect many against one. Someone throwing things and damaging property is a threat, not some poor lost soul. Oh and to the ignorant poster who said the RCMP should be hit with the taser, they are in basic training and you know what, non of them die, in fact it gives them a greater respect for the weapon. But maybe in futrue you would feel better if someone who was robbing your home, or stealing your car, beating on you, or heaven for bid trying to kill you was talked to in a gentle manner by the police rather than dealing with it in a method that has only killed 2 people. Hang your heads general public you believe the media machine because you are to ignorant to care about the truth.


CT
said

What this boils down to is if the price of the property that this man destroyed is worth his life. It's apparent that this man posed no threat to any other individual. So why was this man killed? For destroying public property? We must not stand for this.

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