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N.S. girl rejected from boys-only day camp

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Canada AM: Lydia Houck, signed up for boys camp

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Fri. Aug. 10 2007 5:49 PM ET

A young Nova Scotia girl's desire to join a boys-only summer day camp has sparked a debate over whether the gender segregation is discriminatory after she was denied admission to the program.

"Kids should just be kids. They should be able to play with whoever they want and it should matter what their gender is," nine-year-old Lydia Houck, of Windsor, N.S., told CTV Atlantic.

When nine-year-old Lydia Houck of Windsor, N.S. reviewed the summer camp options available in her area, a camp called 'Rec'n the Outdoors' piqued her interest.

The camp included fishing, hiking and golfing, which were all activities that Houck and her seven-year-old brother Jonah enjoyed.

"My brother and I were interested in fishing and we liked to be outdoors and nature so it seemed to appeal to me and it was pretty much the only camp that had that kind of description," Lydia told CTV's Canada AM.

However, the camp was just for boys. The only camp that was created specifically for females was called "Glamorous Girls," where the camp activities included spa visits, manicures and pedicures.

The Municipality of the District of West Hants is offering three other co-ed day camps, but the trip to the amusement park, a day at the waterslides and pirate-themed excursion did not appeal to Houck.

Houck called the recreation department at the Municipality of the District of West Hants but was informed that she would not be admitted to the camp, a decision that did not sit well.

"It made me feel like that they were segregating children because of their genders," Lydia said.

It's a sentiment that is shared by Houck's mother. "I'm in 100 per cent support," Lorna Houck told Canada AM.

"I mean she has a valid point and I don't see any reason why children at the elementary school age should be segregated and stereotyped into male-type activities and female activities."

The Houcks did not take the rejection lightly, and after making a series of phone calls, reached municipality warden Richard Dauphinee. While he sympathized with Lydia's predicament he did not feel much could be done to address the situation.

"This is a pilot project, we've never run it before," Dauphinee told The Canadian Press. "They decided they would try just girls things for the girls and just boys things for the boys and see how it worked."

Windsor councillor Gary Cochrane said that while it's the first time the municipality has tried a program that isn't co-ed, the Houcks were the only family to complain.

"We've had one out of 18,000 residents complain, and we've actually had parents that phoned in and encouraged us to stay with this," he told CTV Atlantic.

Jacqueline Warwick, the co-ordinator of gender and women's studies at Dalhousie University in Halifax, told CP she was "astonished" a municipal government would be behind segregating boys and girls into traditional gender roles.

"I do think that there is a widespread movement to restore these very repressive, old-fashioned gender roles,'' said Warwick.

"This emphasis on frivolity ... can be understood as a way of occupying girls' and women's time. They spend all their time and money on these activities. It's a way of containing women and girls into these safe stereotypes where they're not going to disrupt society.''

At Dauphinee's suggestion, Houck has submitted a letter to the local council concerning the matter, but she is holding out little hope for an immediate change to the situation.

"I don't think they're going to let me go to this day camp, but it's not really about me anymore," Houck said. "It's about telling the world."

With a report from CTV Atlantic and files from The Canadian Press

Please Add Comments( )

Brent
said
0 0

Some events are best sometimes to be left with a single gender. That being said, a camp should be offered for both genders to do actual camping stuff. But if a camp is for the guys or just for the girls, leave it at that. No one should be able to force that change. Not too many boys want to join the girl guides, and as far as I know they can't...but girls are free to join tradtional boy clubs (Cubs and Scouts). Seems like a big double standard.


iohnn
said
0 0

How politically incorrect...... (-;
The horrors of it.


Bob
said
0 0

What century are these people living in? There is nothing wrong with a girl doing the activities at the "boys only" camp. I do a lot of wilderness canoeing and we frequently see many girls and women enjoying themselves doing things that these dinosaurs seem to think is not feminine.


Dave
said
0 0

Can't we let our boys be boys and play together for a few days without labelling it anti-feminist? If she really wants to go fishing, it sounds like she does it all the time anyway ("my brother and I go fishing a lot"). This is nothing more than an attempt to stir a can of worms to get in the news.


Theresa
said
0 0

I am so sick of people trying to put their kids into camps, teams and clubs that are only for boys and girls and raising a big stink. What's wrong with it? I don't think they are intentionally making it discriminatory.

bth
said
0 0

You know, one fact seems to be lost here: there is a difference between girls and boys! and there should be separate camps for both. Girls are not equal to men and men are not equal to girls, no matter what spin is put on it. I agree that there should be a fishing camp for girls, if there is support from girls for this, but to force a group to change because of this misguided thought that we are all equal and should therefore perform equal tasks, games, jobs, etc. is simply outrageous.


Joe Caverly
said
0 0

Why is it discrimination when a female wants to join an all-male activity or group, and is refused, but when a male wants to join an only-for-females activity or group, and is refused, it is not considered discrimination?



Melanie Branson
said
0 0

People are very quick to claim "discrimination" however this is not the case. The little girl has three other co-ed options but she doesn't like them. I say "too bad". What if it was reversed? What if a boy wanted to go to the spa for girls for whatever reason? He would be told flat out "no" and that would be the end of it. There are many reasons why there may be separate camps for boys and girls. Had there been no co-ed option, I'd be more sympathetic. Seeing that there is, the little girl should take the trips to the amusement park, waterslides, etc and enjoy fishing with her brother at other times.


MagnuS
said
0 0

Oh ya, I'm a 30 year old male who wants to join a 19 year old all-girl synchronized swimming team.....if I am refused, can I complain and get media attention and get on Canada AM?


Joe
said
0 0

Yes, and we should protest the shopping malls for having more women's shops than men's, and that shoe stores have larger women's sections. What we really need to do is admit that male and females are different. We, in general have different interests and you see that throughout society (I.e. retail marketing).
Let's applaud the town for making the effort to provide day camps, make constructive criticisms, and get on with life.
I still maintain we must have it very good in this country to be down to complaining about the things we do.

Michele
said
0 0

This is so 'double standard'. There are girl only activities in which boys are not allowed to attend. It is getting 'old' hearing discrimination all the time. I believe boys (and girls) should be allowed to have same gender-only camps where they can spend time with same gender-only role models.
Are any of the other camps girl only?


Richard P.
said
0 0

This is 2007, not 1807, there must be equal opportunities for both Girls and Boys.

In other words, if there is a fishing camp for boys, then there must be a fishing camp for girls.

Also, unless there are privacy concerns, ie. no separate washrooms, showers, sleep facilities, etc., then there is no reason these camps need to be segregated.

In the real world, women and men work side by side.

Get with the program.


Dee
said
0 0

For Brent: Girl Guides has refused entry to boys as they want to remain an all-for-girls organization. (However, I have had two boy "brownies" as they accompanied their sisters to meetings and had a great time too! WE just didn't tell our director about them...) Boy Scouts however, realized that not all little girls want to earn a badge for serving tea. (Seriously, that's still one of the badges they must earn) Boy Scouts was not forced to allow girls in, they welcomed them. And they will keep getting them until the Guides catch up to the new millennium and offer all the activities that Scouts does without all the sexist - Victorian - themed projects that are not pertinent to today's society.

tommy bee
said
0 0

As an ex-Scout leader from when the changes came in, our troop had 6 girls and 10 boys.

The kids all interacted great and no one ever had a problem. It was a very positive experience.

However. I'm not sure it's a good idea to break into a gender group just because you can do it.


Gregory Boudreau
said
0 0

I agree with Melanie, people are quick to say "discrimination" but not in this case, I would agree that if there was nothing offered for girls, then yes they would have a valid point. In Nova Scotia there are so many places that offer these types of recreation.


Herbie2
said
0 0

My wife and I raised four children -- one daughter and three sons. At no time did we endorse "girl things" or "boy things." We taught them skills together and one Christmas when they were all in their early 20s and moving away from home, I gave all four toolboxes, stocked with basic tools they woould need to maintain a home.

As a result, my daughter is very comfortable doing basic car maintenance, plus carpentry, electrical and plumbing work on her home. All four children, sons included, are great chefs.

Someone could/should have done some kind of survey to see what types of activities were desired by both genders and tailored the camps accordingly, instead of arbitrarily determining "girl activities" and "boy activities."

As for integrating the camps, my experience as a person, parent and several year camp counsellor, tells me that most boys don't want to associate with girls, and vice versa.


Louise Dondo
said
0 0

The point being missed here is it is a "day" camp. I cannot believe in this day and age it is deemed that girls should go to spas and have toe nails painted or try different hairstyles. The same sort of activities should have been offered to girls. In case anyone thinks me a member of radical feminist group I am 70 and in my younger years would have spurned spas and gone to do something worth the effort of doing.



Lori Creech
said
0 0

As a former journalist - I wrote an opinion column on this once. I think that it's great to have boys and girls separated every now and then. Why do people shout "discrimination" everytime a girl wants to join the boys and their don't let her? Maybe the boys want to spend time without a girl around and do boy things.


Liz
said
0 0

If this was an all boys camp with only one girl wanting to participate, then it would not have been appropriate for a girl to be within the group. I dont believe it has anything to do with girls not being able to do certain activities. If the option was not available, then perhaps there should be all- round activities for girls set up to coincide with their interests next year, simple!!


chris
said
0 0

I agree with Dave who wrote that this is clearly an attempt to rock the boat to get in the news. Does the little girl understand the meaning of "discriminatory"? Sounds like she's being coached by her mom. I'm not against mixed camps but neither am I against gender-based camps. Maybe the family could continue to encourage officials to have a non gender- based camp next year but please keep this one out of the courts! There are so many more important issues that need to be addressed.


Laura
said
0 0

She shouldn't just push her way into the camp, since it is an all boys camp, but there should be a camp that allow girls to do the same events.


Denise
said
0 0

I am a woman and I love to go fishing. Lydia I am very sorry they are unwilling to let you attend the camp, it sounds like a great time.

I say if some young ladies/girls want to go fishing, than lets go fishin'! And if some young men/boys want to enjoy a day at the spa than lets go to the spa! Why can't all the camps be Co-ed?

The age we are in now is not about seperating girls and boys. Our advanced society should be about giving both genders the opportunity to choose which activities and later on which careers they want to do.


Karl
said
0 0

Why does this always seem to be a big deal . Some of the best memories I have of growing up as a young boy was of the Cub and Boy scouts camping me and my father would attend. Young boys and girls do not always have to be playing together. There are other options for this young girl she should pick one of those.


May
said
0 0

Come on people, wake up. Long gone are the days when the men brought home the bacon and the women sat at home baking and sewing for her family. Women are working in oil fields, driving tractor-trailers, running huge corporations, carpenters and are politicians. At the same time a lot of men have taken on roles that traditionally were delegated more to women, such as fashion designers, interior decorators, teachers, and heaven forbid, even stay home dads. The world has changed and our children have to learn skills and enjoy activities that will enable them to work side by side with the opposite gender if they are to survive in this dog eat dog world.

Cam
said
0 0

I went to get a membership at only womans fitness and they said I couldn't because I was a boy -- isn't this the same thing? I am all for equal opertunity but it goes both ways.


Campy Business
said
0 0

I'm wondering why no one has picked up on the obvious -ONE GIRL in an all boys camp?... if I was her parent, I'd be fearful of bullying and ostracization, not to mention that she herself may end up feeling alone and anxious once she got there, being the only girl. This is common sense! The other obvious point here is: the girl and the parent should be going to the girls camps and giving convincing arguments on why they should include outdoor activities instead of trying to force the boys camp to accept a girl into their program.

Warren
said
0 0

How many more times are we going to revisit this kind of situation" Boy scouts was the first casualty. I think that this is utterly rediculous. What's wrong with a bunch of guys goin off and bein a bunch of guys. So it's alright for "Curves for Women" a fitness club for women to exist, and it's alright for a gym to have a women only area, but this is not ok?

Margaret
said
0 0

The problem here is that camps do not offer outdoor programs for girls that include fishing, hiking, sports. Not all girls are into frilly items and spas. I have 3 daughters, one who likes both outdoors and frilly, one who was a camp director at an all girl camp that had limited programs and found the biggest complaint was thay boys had better camps for outdoor activities and one who abhors the frilly things but used to be a model. The last one is a single parent with a boy who enjoys fishing, hiking etc. When will camps offer all girl camps that have fishing etc.

Some Guide camps do offer these sports and are open to non-members girls. Check your province.


Samantha from Halifax
said
0 0

I think Herbie B. has it right...why are these camps defining what are 'boys' activities' and 'girls' activities'. I have two daughters and while the youngest is still quite little, the older has played with dolls, easy bake ovens, hammers, nails, screwdrivers...the whole gamut. She's helped my husband wash the dishes and helped me mow the lawn. And when she hears - with her very mature six year old ears - that it's a woman's job to wash clothes and dishes and do all the cooking, she points out that it is thinking "from old fashioned times". With boys being told to hunt and gather and girls being told to look pretty, what are we teaching them? What will the future look like? Something we've seen before, I suspect.


Denis
said
0 0

Instead of criticizing, the girl and her mother could put all of this effort into organizing a similar day camp for girls for next year.


Mike
said
0 0

I know how she feels, I felt the same way when I tried to join Spa Lady and was told it is a lady only gym.


Richard
said
0 0

If you read the story the gentleman said this was the first time they put together these activities. I'm sure if enough girls wanted to do the fishing thing the town would put something together. I get sick of seeing this discrimination angle all the time. A town trys to do something good and someone is always whining. Get tired of reading these negative stories when an organization wanted to offer something for everyone.

Ben Hanhart
said
0 0

What bothers me most is those who support this girl's action are running to the "This is 2007" argument. Seems like the default response to anyone who raises questions about these kind of debates. It's immature to assume you have the popular opinion. I have no problem with somebody starting a boys or girls only camp and enforcing it. Boys and girls are different,

Derek
said
0 0

If the Houcks and others feel as though there would be a market for co-ed summer camps with these sorts of programs, then by all means they should take the initiative and start one up. Some parents may want their young boys to go to a boy's only camp while some may desire a co-ed environment. Both should have the right to choose the environment they see best for their children.


Joanne, GG leader in NS
said
0 0

What is lacking here is equal opportunity which DOES NOT necessarily mean gender mix events. I am a member of Girl Guides for 13 years and I like to think we have taken our unit out of the tea and cookie era into (safe)adventurous activity. However, we also offer a variety of female specific opportunities,which I believe balances the needs and wants of girls today. No, the girls needn't be in the boys camp but that said, provide an opportunity similar/same for girls. Assuming gender roles is unfair to all youth who desperately need a safe 'place' to be themselves, whatever that entails. And yes, I applaud Girl Guides of Canada for our women/girls only status; young girls need that space as they grow, as do boys, in my opinion. The answer: offer more to all and don't assume the old sterotypical ways still apply.


lhea
said
0 0

I think there should be a camp labeled as an outdoor camp for boys and girls. My son attends an outdoor camp that includes hiking, rock climbing, swimming, nature exploring, archery and so forth and this camp is being offered for both boys and girls. Not all girls are girly-girl and some enjoys the outdoors. To solve their problem they should offer it for both genders.

Cheryl
said
0 0

In deference to Girl Guides of Canada, one of the reasons that they don't want guys involved is because women need to develop their own leadership skills. Why wasn't there a girls only "Rec'n the Outdoors" camp offered? I'm afraid that the leadership at that facility is way behind the times when it comes to girls activities. Lydia, join your local Girl Guide group and you will get lots of outdoor activities. If you progress through the program, in Grade 9 you will be given the opportunity to be responsible for your own small group on a weekend camp.


Mark
said
0 0

This is absurd, there are bigger issues then someone wanting their 10 minutes of fame. Join the Scouts, there is a Jamboree in QC this year where you will be able to have all the fun you can handle.


Larry Keddie
said
0 0

I wonder where Dee has been. The Scouting movement did not welcome the girls into their programs. They were forced to take them after it was taken to the human rights commission. They were told that they had to open up to the females. I still think Scouting needs to be for boys as girl guides is for girls.


Robin
said
0 0

I cannot believe this story even made the news. This girl wants to attend an all boys camp and apparently doesn't meet the only requirement - being a boy. So she asks someone else and they say no. And then someone else and they say no. What's wrong with taking no for an answer?

Todd
said
0 0

I've worked with kids for 20 odd years and I can say with some expertise that it can be very positive to have segregated activities. The real issue isn't about separation, it's about the type of activities offered. I know tons of outdoorsy girls who would love an opportunity to go camping with a girls-only group (like my daughters in brownies/guides)and as a parent I wouldn't send my girls to a spa camp (there's already enough attention to female body image). If the community made any mistake it was in the type of activities they selected. Did they conduct a poll first? Enough already with the "male-exclusivity" debate, it was lost years ago and feminist should be focusing on what fashion magazines (many of which are run by women) are doing to promote unhealthy, female stereotypes.


Ivan
said
0 0

When I was young, I would have much rather done the facial/spa/shopping thing than fishing/camping. But even now I doubt there are other boys who would fight to join the opposite group. That's the real segregation that should be overcome. How many of you would be quite so indignant with that situation?


rose
said
0 0

I hope the Windsor, N.S. rec department sticks to their plan.
I feel sorry for the girl that none of the other programs that would have allowed her to attend do "outdoorsy" things, but maybe the rec dept. will rectify that for next year. I don't blame her for not wanting Glamour Girls type events either, young girls are just being marketed things meant for older girls/women with that type of camp, in my opinion.

The bottom line is that she didn't like the choices that the other camps offered and so... time to cry foul. Her parents should have just told her sometimes we don't get what we want, and left it at that!

This has become another nothing issue being fired up by the media.


Ti
said
0 0

Segregation...maybe, unequal treatment...maybe, blown out of proportion...yes!

I'm all for equality of the sexes, but I think the bigger focus should be on offering an outdoor girls camp that offers what it offers the boys. Let's face it, we live in a society where many young girls are more content doing 'boys' activities rather than having 'girly' spa days.

As far as segregating the camps, go one them! Let boys be boys together and girls be girls together without the added pressure of the 'does he or she like me?' syndrome that seems to going around kids at such a young age. I also think that the segregation is not such a bad idea when there have been allegations of sexual impropriety in day camps by other campers. Give all of the kids the options, segregated or not.


Sonia
said
0 0

I am very upset by the story and even more surprised by some of the comments posted. Let boys 'do boy things', what is that supposed to mean? I am a woman who grew up playing with matchbox cars, tonka trucks and playing hockey. As a mother, if my child would be denied access to such a camp, I would file a human rights law suit right away. What a pity it happens in Canada.


Kevin
said
0 0

I agree....Look at the concept of all female gyms, it's a prime example. It's blatantly discriminatory but it's seen as "empowering" yet if there was an all male gym it'd be seen as sexist and discriminatory. Rather than attacking the all boy program for their selective admission, she should be putting that time and effort into asking the all girl day camp to include less facial and manicures, and more outdoor activities.


Lorrie
said
0 0

Why shouldn't boys go to the spa camp as well? I use spa facilities in my local, VERY rural town myself, and know for a fact that there are a number of men who use these facilities as well. For shame on the municipality for designating as "male/female"? Also, if teams are not available for girls, why can they not play on the boys, and frankly, vice versa! I thought we had come further than that...guess not!


Linda
said
0 0

Camps should not be segregated. Fishing, golf and other outdoor activities are enjoyed by all genders. Having a camp called "Glamour Girls" is is not for every girl. Maybe it would be best to change this particular camp to Healthy Lifestyles,since there are many boys and girls who need basic instructions in good health and hygiene.


Steph
said
0 0

I am a woman who went through Guides for many years, and is now a Beaver Leader for my sons colony. I started volunteering because none of the fathers would step up. Of course I don't know of any fathers who would step up to be a Brownie leader either, but if there is an outdoor camp for guys there should be a separate camp for girls doing the SAME activities just as I had growing up. I had all male friends in my community and going to Guides and the YMCA camp just for girls gave me the opportunities to play sports, canoe, swim, hike etc.in a less competitive atmosphere with less risk of injury. It also taught me how to socialize with other girls my own age which is very important to both genders. By segregating the camps girls or boys who enjoy the same sort of activites are learning how to interact with each other independently.

Shannon
said
0 0

As a mother of two girls, I agree that sometimes segregating boys and girls in their sports and activities makes sense. For example, my girls play girls' hockey, because I know they would get flattened playing boys' hockey due to their far slighter builds.
Where I think the problem lies in this day camp situation is that the 'girls only' option reeks of negative gender stereotyping!! 'Glamourous Girls' camp brings images to my mind of a group of pre-adolescent Paris Hilton/Hilary Duff/Lindsay Lohan/etc. wannabe's sitting around primping themselves. Some girls might really enjoy this, but many of the ones I know would probably find the boys' camp activities far more interesting.

Crystal
said
0 0

I think that at that young age they should have made a camp with similar activites for co-ed or girls only. There are alot of girls who also enjoy doing nature activities. It should have been just better organized. I also think "discrimination" is too harsh a word for what happened here. They should just accept it and work on creating other camps for next summer.


Dave
said
0 0

Welcome to life. I'd love to join the local Goodlife fitness club, but I'm not allowed because I'm a male - females only please. Yes, I can go find a co-ed Goodlife fitness, just as this girl can go find a co-ed day camp.


Vance William
said
0 0

I agree with Dave. You know it's a slow news day when this crap makes it in. Why can't boys get together to BE boys together and to do boy stuff together without the prejudice of being branded anti-feminist? Really, society has reached all too nauseating-a-plateau of politically-correctness!


Grinny
said
0 0

There is a major point being missed. Young boys (and girls for that matter) need to have time to be with their peers. Can you remember that age? It was about boys being boys and girls being girls. I am sure you all remember the "girl cooties and boy germs" era. It's a fact, and no court can change that, and I don't feel they have the right to. If the girl had no other options, then she should be allowed, but you have to consider what may transpire when she is there.

Mike
said
0 0

I fear for our society. The ideals of liberalism and Rights and Freedoms CAN go too far. A good thing can become a cancer if it grows out of control, and equality between sexes and races has become just that. Allowing this type of silliness to spread in our nation is a folly that must be stopped!


Mark
said
0 0

The issue is NOT whether there are activities for both boys and girls. The issue IS that they have decided to define what a girl should want to do and a boy should want to do.

Quoting story: "This is a pilot project, we've never run it before," Dauphinee told the Canadian Press. "They decided they would try just girls things for the girls and just boys things for the boys and see how it worked."

Having lived in this area, I'm hardly surprised at this attitude that boys and girls have distinct and separate interests. It is archaic.

Anne-Marie
said
0 0

I think the municipality made a mistake. A lot of kids like to go fishing, hiking and the outdoors and gender does not play a role in that. I don't think it was on purpose, but it would be great if they fixed it ASAP... and in the spirit of fairness, why not open both camps to both genders!


Adrian
said
0 0

Stay out!It is a boys' camp.

Scouts Canada was forced to go co-ed, and it was ruined as a result. Yet a boy was still forbidden to join the Girl Guides. What a nice double standard.

We had to have a female leader attend all events where girls were present. If no female leader was available, the event was cancelled for everybody instead of just sending the girls home.

Gender segregation is not necessarily a bad thing. There are some things boys and girls should be able to do without the other gender being present and complicating things.


JKB
said
0 0

This is not discrimination. The little girl and her mother should be pushing for an all girls camp where these outdoor activities can be experienced, not impose themselves on an all boys camp where little boys are being encouraged to develop into young men and to learn from other males. We need to appreciate the differences between the sexes. There are times when co-ed situations are appropriate and times when boys need to be only with other boys and girls need to be only with other girls.

The real issue here is why are there no such camps for only girls? Girls need to be encouraged to do all the outdoor stuff!


Richard
said
0 0

I am heading down to the "Women's only" gym which just so happens to be located in our local grocery store, and demand to be let in right now. Not sure they would make National news out of it though.


Michele
said
0 0

Rose makes a good point.
Is this girl learning she can't have everything she wants? I think not. Could this be the problem with alot (not all) of young people today?


Debbie
said
0 0

Although very unfortunate for the girl, maybe they should consider a camp for the girls doing the SAME activities as the one for the boys. I don't see anything wrong with having an all boys or girls day camp providing the same options are available to both groups.


Thomas
said
0 0

Big Deal!

I can't join a women's only fitness club why should she be allowed into a boy's only camp? I am sick of the double standards that women (in general) have.


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