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This partial image of a Facebook page shows a vote swapping group for anti-Liberal voters, on Wednesday, Sept. 17, 2008.
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This partial image of a Facebook page shows a vote-swapping group for anti-Conservative voters, on Wednesday, Sept. 17, 2008.
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Online vote swaps not illegal: Elections Canada
Updated Wed. Sep. 17 2008 10:20 PM ET
The Canadian Press
OTTAWA -- Elections Canada has concluded that online vote-swapping schemes aren't illegal in themselves -- but it's warning voters to be careful what they're getting into if they decide to participate.
James Hale, a spokesman for the federal agency, said Wednesday that the simple act of encouraging someone to vote in a particular way is all right under the Canada Elections Act.
It's also permissible to invite people to participate in an organized strategic voting plan, whether on the Internet or by other means.
Nevertheless, said Hale, "electors should be cautious for a couple of reasons."
One is that they could potentially be misled by "someone acting under multiple or false identities to trick them into voting for a particular candidate."
In such a case, said Hale, the person who misled them would, in fact, be guilty of an offence under the Elections Act.
And even if a vote swap seems to be on the up-and-up, there's really no way of knowing for sure. That's because it's impossible to verify how people actually cast their ballots once they're in the voting booth.
Hale also cautioned that, under federal law, no money or other "material benefit" can change hands as part of a voting arrangement.
"Its not an offence to tell your friend you think they should vote in a certain way, and its not an offence to say `Yeah, I think that's a great idea.' It is an offence to accept money or to offer money for that."
Elections Canada started looking into the matter last week, after a Facebook group was set up with the aim of stopping Stephen Harper's Conservatives from winning a majority government on Oct. 14.
The site listed 41 ridings that will likely be tight races and encouraged members to swap votes in order to stop the Tories from winning those contests.
For example, a person in Parry Sound, Ont., might want to vote for the Green party but feel compelled to cast a ballot for the Liberals simply to stop Health Minister Tony Clement, who won by only 28 votes last time, from gaining re-election.
The person could use the site to find a Liberal in another riding where it would be safe to vote Green without fear of electing a Tory. The two would then agree to swap votes.
The Anti-Harper Vote Swap Canada group, set up by Mat Savelli of Hamilton, Ont., attracted more than 300 members from across the country within a day of its founding.
Savelli is currently in Romania working on a PhD in history but says he's planning on voting from abroad.
Comments are now closed for this story
I find it funny how pathetic these people are... they don't even know why they don't want Harper, but they're still hellbent on stopping a majority. Does he eat babies? Or is it just because the liberal party told you to? This is sad.
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If the Conservative Party has come out with this type of scheme the left-wingers throughout the country, in conjunction with Elections Canada, would be screaming bloody murder and demand jail time for those involved. I suppose since the purpose of the scheme is to stop Conservatives from being elected, then it must be OK. Sheesh..
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| Won't Believe a Conservative |
This isn't as bad as the In and Out scheme by any means. Sounds like it might actually work. Be carefull Mr. Savelli, our PM might sue you over this if he loses. He hates losing. Speaking of which, still haven't heard if Harper will duck out of court on the Cadman scandal because as he says "I'm in the middle of an election" I wonder if I can get out of my next court date in a civil trial later in Sept because I need to watch the campaign, same as he's saying he needs too. Plus he can afford to take a few days off to let the other parties catch up seeing how as he started campaigning 3 weeks before the writ was even dropped.
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So, the leftie sheeple are listening to some guy in Romania telling them how to vote. Yep, Romania has elected such wonderful leaders in the past, we should certainly follow their fine example...
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GOOD! Now I know it is not illegal and I will go in and be involved with swap scheme to prevent Harper from getting Majority or boot him out!
Good!
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What's ridiculous is that elections Canada hasn't appeared to address the fact that these swappers are promising something for their vote. One swapper goes to the site and promises another swapper to vote for his party if he votes for theirs. That sounds like a bribe to me.
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Uhhh sorry Roadrobber - I guess you don't get it. In the last election the MAJORITY (60%+) of Canadians did not vote for Harper and his band of Reformites.
Harper and his gang deliberately called this and the last election in order to take advantage of the fact that the "left" vote was split amongst several parties (Liberal, NDP, Green and even the Bloc).
The MAJORITY of Canadians are trying to fight back (we support parties that don't try to cheat Elections Canada Rules and Regulations).
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Paul, no Harper does not eat babies. But, Harper is a Reform candidate : look at his team. Harper must not get a majority because that is when the western Reform-Alliance group gets to govern ALL of Canada.
You are not scared, are you?
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This idea is great! If the conservatives were such a great and transparent party we wouldn't have to come to such measures. This is democracy at its finest.
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Cut this out!!! You know who wins in the long run???? Harper!!!!!!!!! He's getting loads of free publicity from all this and folks are saying," No way I'm going to follow a bunch of vengeful losers like this, I'll just vote for Harper"
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He wants to get a majority government
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And what percentage of these people are going to show up at the polls? My guess is very little, since the majority of them are in the "young" category and don't bother to get out.
And before I hear any criticism of me "not understanding" the younger crowd with the ability to vote, I'd like to clearly point out that I'm 24, and understand completely.
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| A LIberal youth that you Fear |
Ok first off all you have to wake up literally, just cause the article shows an anti-harper group does not mean there is not one for the Liberals, NDP, and the Greens. Staying instep with the Cons hitting below the belt I know for a fact there is a few groups on FB spreading their filth.
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Swapping wives isn't illegal either, but it's just as distasteful.
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Whose with me in starting the Anti-Dion vote swap group! oh my...
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Paul, I find it funny that you didn't get the point of the article...and no, he just takes away their daycare spaces...would you like ten other reasons?
1. Income trusts
2. Atlantic accords
3. Corporate tax strategy
4. Personal tax strategy
5. Ignorant of manufacturing sector issues
6. Maxime Bernier
7. Chuck Cadman
8. Lack of environmental policy
9. $5 a day towards daycare, that he taxes you on, and that he took the spaces away on top of that
10. getting REALLY tired of constantly being embarassed on the world stage by that bozo.
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Nicolai Ceaucescu, now there was a dictator! Everyone should listen to the zero life experience/know nothing about anything realistic freakin' student and vote the way he tells you. You college boys crack me up, deluded by your own self-importance. No wonder Dion and Ignatieff are such uppity gasbags! The world is not a leftist Utopia. The real world takes actual work and real solutions for problems. Pipe dreaming wankers go away. 300 people, hahahahahahahahahaha!
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I have a great idea. Everybody go out and vote. That way the party elected represents the majority of the country. I know it's a difficult concept for some people. It is called democracy. Voting should be a legal requirement for all. If you don't vote you can't complain. Why all the schemes are these groups that desperate.
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Some of these comments are ridiculous.
Paul said, "they don't even know why they don't want Harper" - How do you know that?! So you're making an assumption about other people making assumptions? Sheesh!
JJ said, "So, the leftie sheeple" - Why does it so frequently turn to name calling instead of interesting points or arguments?
I don't get the slam on Romania either. Just because the guy is there studying?
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For those of you complaining about the "lefties": from a purely objective point of view, what are they supposed to do? Canada has (now) one right-wing party, whereas the vote on the left is split between 3 parties (4 in Quebec). In theory, this means that one party (in this case the conservatives) could win only 26% of the vote in every riding, and still win 100% of the seats. The perils of a multi-party system...
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Paul,
Unlike you, vote swappers can discern fact from fiction because they think critically about issues instead of believing propaganda espoused by the governing party. Some Canadians are afraid of what the Harperbot would do with a majority. What is truly sad is your lack of concern.
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| Not about right or left but about right and wrong |
This is another crazy idea from the socialist left who wish to hijack democracy from taking its rightful course.
This should be a serious wakeup call for all Canadians whose rights, wishes and democratic voice are being manipulated and denied by the socialist left.
Vote swapping goes directly against the wishes and intent and spirit of majority rule.
The left preach tolerance for all but they invariably come across as the MOST INTOLERANT.
The left have open disdain and blatant intolerance of anything that is right leaning.
The truth of the matter is it isn't about right or left but right and wrong and that nuance is wasted on the left.
Manipulation is wrong.
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| Emily Lincoln - Fredericton, N.B. |
If it helps stop Harper, then count me in. Together we can bring our country back from the abyss.
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Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it's UNETHICAL. What are we really sacrificing when we vote swap? It's rediculous. This 24 year old male is going to make sure that HIS candidate gets HIS vote.
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It is extremely pathetic that the left in this country is so vitriolic and extremist that they would actually organize a concerted effort such as this - and yet they are the ones claiming Harper has an 'extremist agenda'. Well if he's got one, I sure haven't seen it. All I've seen is competent and capable leadership, my taxes cut, and an increase in our international esteem abroad - indeed, Harper and Angela Merkel are the most respected world leaders on the planet, according to a recent study.
I think, however, that the majority of Canadians will be fed up with this childish and irrational extremism and cast their votes accordingly on Oct. 14th. unfortunately, the vitriol emanating from the depths of the left will only increase.
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Why is nobody surprised. They make their own rules as they go along. They use jackboot tactics to seize files from one political party engaged is a process that all parties were engaged in, while not even investigating the other parties doing the same thing. Just another bloated Ottawa bureaucracy.
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The people engaging in vote swapping are the most devoid of principals in this election.
If there are that many people committed to voting AGAINST something as opposed to SUPPORTING a position then earlier blog articles suggesting a need to "unite the left" are absolutely correct.
If you are voting against something it could be as extreme as say "vote to elect a child molester, if it blocks a conservative"
It's not illegal but it is very fraught with danger.
Suppose as a "Evil Conservative Operative" I decide to get on-line and say I will vote for a Liberal in a tight race in London and don't. However the person I swap with agrees to support a NDP vote in Toronto.
There is no guarantee that the person on the other end is fulfilling his/her duty.
Finally, I fail to see why strategic voters would drop the support for their own party when it is paid per vote by elections Canada.
How does say your NDP party advance it's platform if 100,000 votes are strategically switched Liberal or vice versa
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Hi, I am JF Ranger, an officer of the Anti-Harper Vote Swap Canada Facebook group.
I personaly want to thank Elections Canada for taking a fair and balanced decision today towards our group. The people behind this movement are totally committed to the success of our group, and we will deliver our promises. This will be a success.
We just reached 5000+ members and the numbers are growing up very quickly. This is a strong message against allowing a minority of the people to elect a majoritary government who would control the House of Commons and the Senate for 5 years.
This is a great day for democracy.
Thank you all and come visit our group!
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A vote for the Liberals is a vote to save Canada. But a vote for the Conservatives means that the blue-eyed bogeyman known as Stephen Harper will retain power, emerge from your nightmares and haunt you for the rest of your life ...
...is how I feel some Liberal folks and misguided citizens are portraying the Conservatives. I know that people have issues with Harper, but these voting schemes are silly. To vote for a party because one fully understands and agrees with their plans/ideas is one thing. But to vote against a party because it *seems* like a good idea? Come on.
Case in point: in my own family, everyone - with the exception of me - will vote Liberal. Are they impressed with Liberal politics and/or ideologies? Is it the faith that somehow the Liberal leader in charge is capable of doing good? No. They vote Liberal because they just *don't like* the Conservatives. If they were all Facebook users, they'd likely partake in this scheme too.
I understand the underlying concept of strategic voting. But I would only accept it if everyone who partook in it had a equally full understanding of what they were doing and why. These strategic voting/scare tactics are simply taking advantage of people's misunderstandings and fears for no real reason. We HAVE to set up this Facebook group and you HAVE to help if you WANT to keep the Conservatives out of power.
Isn't it scary that those who least understand have the greatest power to decide things with a mere vote?
I've mentioned it before to others that I am a nonpartisan voter with mild NDP tendencies who is still undecided. But somethings I feel like voting Conservative just to spite the Liberals and those who vote Liberal without thinking.
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Elections Canada has lost all credibility in my books. Clearly 13 years of liberal rule have left the leadership of elections Canada clearly biased toward the Liberal party. I dont care what side is doing this IT IS WRONG. Elections Canada should act!
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Excellent idea! I had to vote strategically at the last election...I couldn't believe I was voting NDP but that was how it was going down & the NDP won the riding in Burnaby.
This is democracy...I understand why some don't like it and it does seem unfair but this is no different than a politician using polls to concentrate their efforts with bribes & other inducements. When you look at it that way then there's no harm done.
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That is a completely unethical thing for anybody to do no matter which party they support. You can all make fun of the US all you want but at least they don't reduce themselves to this cowardly level. To anybody who does this; YOU ARE A COWARD!
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It makes no difference if it is legal or not, how in the world would they police it. The only part of this plan that bothers me is that the guy running it is a member of the liberal party. I think if I was swapping my NDP or Green vote I would be very careful.
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This looks like we may finally get a chance at the proportional representation that Harper promised.
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Vote swapping is a good thing, and I plan to participate. This mechanism addresses a shortcoming in our voting system where MPs are not proportionately representative. It's the same thing the West has complained about for decades. Now we can do something about it. Your turn will come.
I am stuck in a riding that is likely going to elect a Conservative, and the only viable opposition is NDP. Voting Liberal here would be useless. I might as well not bother.
However, an NDP voter in a riding where the Liberal candidate is in a close race might swap with me, and if all goes well we can help out all Canadians by diminishing the prospect of a Harper majority.
Canada is too good to lose to the Reform/Alliance agenda. I don't mind real Conservatives, and I've even voted Conservative in the past, but take off Harper's fuzzy blue Norman Rockwell sweater and you'll find a hard core Reformer underneath.
For those of you who think we are uninformed or just playing around, you are seriously mistaken. We see Harper as a threat to our freedoms, our values, our economy, our environment, our health and our international reputation.
Simple as ABC!
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If you don't like a certain party/candidate get out there and campaign for the party/candidate you would prefer to see elected. Trying to orchestrate the election of the party/candidate you prefer through onine vote swapping or other similar means is just sleazy.
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Hey, this might work in reverse to give Harper a majority. Where do I sign up? I want to trade my vote with a Liberal or NDP in Ontario or Quebec.
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| Mike Webster, Mississauga |
If such a scheme, which seeks to pervert democracy and distort the will of the people isn't illegal, it should be. It makes a mockery out of the democratic process. Voting is a sacred duty and it should not be treated in such a careless and cavalier manner as this.
Leave it up to the lefties who realize they have no chance in hell of winning to come up with an idiotic scheme like this. Then again, they're typically the same people who support things such as proportional representation that awards seats to losing candidates! Get a grip people. You might get at best a few hundred people to say they'll do this and I'll bet that only a handful actually show up to vote.
The Tories are headed to a well deserved majority and a bunch of misinfored kids on Facebook aren't going to change that one little bit.
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