World -   

1

Minister defends F-35 program despite possible U.S. cuts

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta talks with Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011. (AP / Evan Vucci) The Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is shown after it was unveiled in a ceremony in Fort Worth, Texas, July 7, 2006. (AP / LM Otero) A Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is shown in this undated Lockheed Martin photo.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta talks with Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011. (AP / Evan Vucci)

View Larger Image

A A |  Email ThisEmail  | PrintComments (69) Facebook   

Selected Comment

Euro fighters aren't stealth and can't take off vertically. No go. I AM for canceling the jets to show Obama what he gets for delaying the pipeline.

Vince

U.S. F-35 program could be on chopping block

talking about
Minister defends F-35 program despite possible U.S. cuts

Date: Tuesday Nov. 15, 2011 9:09 PM ET

Despite signs that budget cuts may signal the end of plans in the U.S. to procure a fleet of new generation high-tech fighter jets, Canada is standing behind the besieged F-35 program and hailing its benefits to the economy and the military.

NDP MPs hammered the government over yet another indication Tuesday that the F-35 program, which has been hit by delays and cost overruns, is on shaky ground.

U.S. Defence Secretary Leon Panetta warned Congress this week that the U.S. military is looking at some ugly choices if lawmakers cannot come to an agreement on how to cut US$1.2 trillion from the deficit, including cancelling its Joint Strike Fighter program.

Canada has made plans to spend billions on an F-35 fleet of its own, which will be built by the U.S.-based Lockheed Martin.

On Tuesday, the opposition accused the Harper government of continuing to support a program that was "doomed to fail from the start."

"Why is the minister so obstinately crusading when all other countries, including the U.S., are stepping back?" NDP MP Christine Moore asked during question period. "Why is the minister only listening to what's being promised by Lockheed-Martin and why doesn't the minister have a plan b?"

Julian Fantino, the associate minister for defence, said cancelling the program would throw 80,000 Canadians out of work.

"The only crusade is the crusade to malign a very important asset for our young men and women who actually use the equipment, and also to maintain our Canadian sovereignty as well as creating jobs," Fantino told the House of Commons. "The member opposite is stuck in a time warp of useless rhetoric, misinformation and misrepresentation about the benefits to Canada of the F-35 program."

Should Congress fail to make progress on the deficit by Nov. 23, Panetta said the military will be legally obligated to slash $500 billion from its operations over a 10-year period, in addition to $450 billion in cuts that are already underway.

Panetta wrote a letter to two members of the Senate Armed Service Committee outlining what some of those cuts would be.

"Facing such large reductions, we would have to reduce the size of the military sharply," Panetta said in the letter sent to Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham on November 14.

"Rough estimates suggest after ten years of these cuts, we would have the smallest ground force since 1940, the smallest number of ships since 1915, and the smallest Air Force in its history. We would also be forced to terminate most large procurement programs in order to accommodate modernization reductions that are likely to be required."

In his letter, Panetta said the Department of Defence could decide to "terminate" its Joint Strike Fighter program.

His letter does not say how likely it is that the U.S. military would actually kill the Joint Strike Fighter. But he said that doing so could save Washington an estimated $80 billion.

If Washington pulls the plug on its own F-35 plans, it is unclear what will happen to the development timeline for the planes that Canada wants to replace its aging fleet of CF-18 Hornets.

The government had previously stated it intends to purchase 65 Joint Strike Fighters beginning in 2017. Original estimates suggested each plane would cost about $75 million.

However, the parliamentary budget officer has suggested the price tag could double, and a report from the Pentagon earlier this year indicated that unforeseen production costs will likely push up the plane's price tag to an unknown sum.

During question period, NDP MP David Christopherson said with Israel, Turkey and Norway, and now potentially the United States, reconsidering plans for their own fleets of F-35s, the time has come for the government to find another aircraft.

"It's clear to everyone that the Conservatives have blown this file totally. The F-35 price tag balloons every time another country drops its order. With the Americans now talking about pulling the plug, the death knell is ringing louder and louder on the F-35," Christopherson said. "When will the minister finally admit the F-35s are an untendered procurement boondoggle in the making? When will he put this contract out to tender?"

Fantino countered that the F-35 contract was subject to a "tendering process" and said the aircraft was already in production and represented the "kind of equipment our men and women (in the air force) need to do their jobs effectively and achieve mission success."

Comments are now closed for this story

Honest Conservative
said

Excercise PACAFs Pacific Vision concluded that both the F-35 JSF and F-22 are deemed absolutely useless to 5th generation fighter aircraft.. I believe our pilots deserve the best fighters money can buy. In the meantime, the Canadian Government should aquire upgraded F-15E Strike Eagle until a proven 5th generation fighter could be considered.


ColininRegina
said

The RCAF should look at the F-15SE Silent Eagle.


Will
said

the wingnuts will never understand why these aircraft are needed or any of the issues surrounding them, so just do what needs doing and ignore them. Fools will rant, roar and demonstrate without being cognisant of fact. Follow through on the purchase and provide the CF with the tools needed to do what we ask of them.


danR
said

Edit: I transposed two items in the 1st paragraph. Correction:

The F-35 will be obsolete for delivery, let alone operational deployment. 6-7 years ago I recall one of McDonnell-Douglas' chief engineers said nobody still had no idea how to build viable hypersonic airframes. That is becoming history, but the origin of the F-35 was rooted in

danR
said

The F-35 will be obsolete for operational deployment, let alone delivery. 6-7 years ago I recall one of McDonnell-Douglas' chief engineers said nobody still had no idea how to build viable hypersonic airframes. That is becoming history, but the origin of the F-35 was rooted in

Redoinkulous
said

It just makes me howl with laughter at all theso called military experts who are on here. Face it, the only thing that everyone on here has in common is that we all just hold opinions. Some say, scrap the program, some say who needs planes, some say we don't need war toys. Well as another one on here with an opinion I'd like to say, that we need a strong military and that includes state of the art fighter bombers that can protect Canadian air space as well as fulfill our commitments to NATO when called upon. If we leave this purchase to the Liberals then we all know that the best thing that we may get is 2nd hand aircraft from the British or the Americans (we all know how they did with the purchase of those subs). I say buy the best with the latest technology for the best damn fighter pilots in the world, the men and women of the RCAF. Peace through superior fire power.


TheSavaGhost
said

How about the rebirth of the Avro Arrow?


James
said

@ JB in Ontario I don't think it's possible to make the federal conservatives seaworthy and better. They are a ship destined to ruin.


dano
said

if the US bails. we will bail


JB in Ontario
said

The Liberals screwed the Canadian military. Yes, go ahead with the F-35's, an excellent purchase by the Conservative government. As for our subs purchased by the Liberals, they were bought in a lemon state from the British. We will have to see what upgrades and fixes we can do with the Conservative federal government and make them seaworthy or better. We do have the largest defended coastline in the world and Canada is a world class country...shouldn't we have state of the art subs??


GerldPro89
said

Bring Back the Avro Arrow, that will create jobs and reinstate some pride and show the world what Canada can really do!!! Just think of all the contracts we could pick up if the US scraps their JSF program...


Jay
said

I'm all for giving our military the best equipment, but this price tag may be getting a bit much.

We need fighters to do our part in patrolling our own skies and bombing dictators into oblivion. If we don't do our share then the US won't cover us under their military shield. China and Russia won't attack Canada because American ICBM's would launch after the first foreign soldier hit our soil. We have to do our share for that safety net, the same net that allows us to blow so much money on socialist programs. Without it, MRI's and housing for poor etc etc would be buried under the rubble of an army who would love to take the vast resources controlled by only 31 million people.


JPC
said

This is simply more budget posturing in the United States and nothing but partisan bickering. These are empty threats designed to scare others into making a deal on their budget. Sadly, like silly little puppies OUR opposition has take'n the bait and using this rhetoric for their own uses. The F-35 will not be cancelled as it is the FUTURE of the U.S. Air Force.


George
said

What's next? They realize unreported crimes are a make believe boogy men invented by Harper & we have no one to fill those billion dollar prisons.


Ben
said

Too many Canadians forget how many of our countrymen died because they were ill-prepared each time a major conflict arose. It seems to me that "luck" favors the prepared. Frankly, I think we ought to have more than 65 F-35's. I personally think we need stronger numbers in just about all areas, navy, army and air force.


Stewie
said

The best thing for Canada is for this program to fail, we don't need these expensive war toys. Other countries have back out because it looks like a lemon but Harper still stands behind it. Harper is such a moron.


Injured Veteran care before jets
said

Vets before Jets. Sure I think we need to aircraft, but we have to take care of our military members first. The 2006 New Veteran Charter is the is spit in the face of every injured war vet. It has made two classes of Vets, pre 2006 and post 2006, with benefits of the pre 2006 be twice as much as more recent injured vets. The Liberals started this mess, and the conservatives have had lots of time to fix it, but Harper has done nothing but pass Bull Sh@t to the Canadian Public with the "Improvements" to the New Veteran's Charter... which are all smoke and mirrors. Go back to the 2005 Veterans System! The Jets can wait until we take care of our injured vets.


Ed in Alberta
said

To answer Trevor H, the reason we can't (won't) reinvest in our aerospace industry such as we had during the years when the Arrow was designed and built is that, just as when the Arrow program was given a poison pill, the government ordering it's execution is the same as we have now... CONSERVATIVE! They would much rather funnel tax-payer money into programs and industries that favours their pet supporters; the drug companies, banks and insurance industries as well as sending cash out of the country to purchase US-made stuff and leave Canadian workers to survive on sevice-industry jobs.


Facts
said

@ Steph. And how many of those troops sent into Afghanistan in green camo were killed? Surely you wouldn't have tried to mislead people. Different missions call for different gear. For what we were doing we didn't need any better equipment. The casualty rate tells us that. 4 deaths all from Americans shooting at us from a jet fighter. Harper had to get us better equipment because he wanted us right in the heat of the battle. Not saying it's right to send us there with that but if you want to play that game Harper is responsible for hundreds of times the casualties than the previous government is simply for changing our mission over there. A little perspective please.


James, Ontario
said

I'm trying to think of something that hasn't been "hit by delays and cost overruns." This seems like something that has crept its way into our culture. Why is everyone so afraid of doing a good job?


Dave in F'ton
said

Just invest in some goofy looking European delta-wing fighters already, like we should have done in the first place. The shiniest fighter jets in the world won't do us any good if we can't afford to arm them or fuel them or pilot them or house them or....


Ray, Mississauga
said

It seems incongruous that a former senior law enforcement officer should be so full of lies, exaggerations and innuendo.


Deal Breaker
said

Maybe the military needs to realize that while they've stuck with the F-35 through thick and thin so far, there comes a point where they are going to have to consider the other (limited) options. If the US were not to go ahead with thier F-35 purchase all production will probably come to a halt. Unfortunately this would probably turn the whole fighter jet acquisition question into a typical decades long Canadian military purchasing boondoggle. Our poor pilots will be stuck in their F-18's until 2035 or so similar to the story of our 50 year old Sea Kings.


mr_cb7
said

Fantino: 80,000 Jobs lost??? You mean U.S Jobs?


Trevor H
said

Remember the glory days for aviation in Canada back in the 50's when we made the Avro Arrow, the most sophisticated fighter plane of the time? I don't see why we can't do it again, we have the engineering knowledge, the physical resources and the aviation infrastructure, all we need is political will and a belief that Canada can still accomplish great things single handedly!


CF Member
said

The problem with the F-35 program is that the entire program has been mismanaged from the get-go and the US geovernment's answer has been to throw money at the program. They aren't holding Lockheed-Martin to account for their screw-ups. Will the planes cost $75 million per plane? I don't think so. Honestly, it will probably run around the $110 to $120 million per plane when it's all said and done. Even at that price, the first ones Canada will receive won't even be fully functional. There have been management mistakes at so many levels and that's why the price will balloon up to those levels. It would be wise for our government though, whoever is in power, to start working on a back up plan now, because if the program gets cancelled or delayed, we will be left with even more time to wait for new jets and have no reasonable back-up.


Air Force Bob
said

When I joined the Air Force 30 years ago, my bosses told me not to waste my time learning how to fix Sea Kings because "they'll be gone soon"...so how are we doing? Given the blistering pace of the Canadian procurement system and parliamentary stall tactics, most of you will be long gone by the time we see another new piece of equipment in the Canadian Forces.


MarkinTO
said

Once upon a time I was a defender of the F-35 program, I still believe it's the future, but it may not be right for Canada.If Canada wants precision strike fighters to carry out a mission similar to Libya, the brand new F-15SE is a good choice. We could diversify the investment to also include the brand new Super Hornet or Growler variant. We could buy double the amount of planes for over half the price of the F-35.


Canadian Bob
said

I must say that I am personally finding this all to be most amusing. First the "occupy" movement beginning in the Unites States finds camping soil here, and to say that their message hasn't been heard, or that this movement is just going to "go away" is far from the truth. We then find that the Oil Sands pipeline planned for a disastrous environmental journey through western Canada and the United States down to Texas has been put on a back burner that could very well spoil that tasty little soup for the Conservative's. And now their beloved F-35 purchase - the one that mysteriously popped out of nowhere with nary a bidding process - may be on the chopping block. I would bet the atmosphere in the PM's office is a tad testy at the moment? I guess good things do come to those that wait.


Steph
said

To all the anti-conservatives and Harper`s bashers, lets not forget that the Memorandum of Understanding that tied Canada to this multinational project was signed under the Liberal Government. The same Liberals that cancelled the Sea King Helicopters replacement deal in 1993 with no replacement helicopters yet in service. The same Liberals that got us a great deal with the used British submarines and sent our soldiers in Afghanistan wearing green combat uniforms. I can go on and on since I`ve been in the CF for the last 24 years.......


Rick W in BC
said

If the F35 program gets the Axe, good, as it just means we can buy the Super Hornet. It may not be as stealthy but it is more than capable and cheaper. The training costs will be minimal as it is for all intents and purposes identical except it is bigger and has been already proven in flight.


K4C
said

The reminds me of Jimmy CARTER in the 70's cutting the B-1 bomber after spending millions perhaps billions on developing it, same old same old from a one term president.


Jason B
said

So many fools...such precious time wasted...moving on.


A Socialist from NS
said

Canada doesn't need ANY military forces period!! take all the $$$ you will save, and built more subsidized housing, more money for health care, welfare programs for the poor (and we have lots of them), food banks etc etc.


@ Joe Canadian
said

Before hurling the names around like the true literary genius you are, try doing some basic math. Were the Chinese of the mind to take anything on the planet, they could. If you think 60 high tech flying toys are all that stands between our security and an invasion from The Orient, you sir are the moron. These aircraft are ill suited to our needs and were only bought so we could puff out our chests and be just like the Americans. Maybe we should buy fighters from China. They could probably knock off the F35 for 1/10 what the Yanks were going to soak us for them.


Stephen B
said

Lets drop the F 35 and go with the F-18E Super Hornet. It will give use another 20 years of a good fighter jet......


Daniel
said

We should anyway be spending our taxpayers money on life saving machines like MRIs as opposed to life killing machines such as fighter jets.


David H. in Ottawa
said

Lets not buy any aircrafts and use those billions of tax payers dollars to put food on table of the poor Canadians, or build shelters for our homeless? built a stonger health or educational public service? We are not an aggressive country, and this money could be used to save lifes instead of purchasing machines to destroy them.


chris paul
said

I love the way Conservatives always talk about how government is bad, government is corrupt, government is wasteful, government is too big... Yet when it comes to the biggest government department of them all: the military, suddenly government is great, fantastic, perfect in every way imaginable and despite the Trillion dollars a year the US spends on the army, every penny is absolutely necessary. (In spite of the fact that audits have shown that the Pentagon loses Billions every year that they can't account for)


Capt Compromise
said

Let me guess... Turns out they were more expensive than we thought?


RonPaul2012
said

The US military is way overbloated and needs to be drastically scaled back. The US spends more on their military then the next 13 countries in the world combined, 11 of which are allies. The US spends almost 7 times more then the Chinese when it comes to military spending and China is the world's 2nd biggest military spender. To see the military as some sort of sacred cow that can't be cut (despite the fact that the US deficit is almost 15 Trillion dollars) is absolutely ridiculous.


hollis macdonald
said

has china got new fighter jets for sale.? hopefully we will be able to get the fighters from the u.s.


rick
said

I am quite sure the Harper government will pick up the extra costs. We are pretty much made of money and there is no debt load the conservatives won't dump on the Canadian consumer. Plus we need these fighter jets because they are so awesome since they will be kinda invisible when they are in stealth mode.


Richard
said

Why don't we build our own? Call it the AVRO II It will give us the jobs we want and bring in revenues. I know what happened to the last one. But, these are different times. We need to rely more on ourselves more now than ever.


Retired Air Force Guy
said

We should have bought the Super Hornet like Australia.
The reason we went with the F-35 was that the Zoomies (pilots) want the latest toy that goes fast. We do not need the F-35! We do not need to inflate the egos of our Zoomies.


Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Yeah, who needs a good military defense, anyway. It's just a waste of money. There's so much raging social, political, and economic peace and stability in the world today that contemplating a threat, somewhere, from best "friends" like China, Iran, North Korea or whomever is for silly fools. Western nations, with their superior confidence, don't have anything to fear with a weakened American military. Our misunderstood global "friends" will protect our interests. We all love and respect each other. (So much so, it gives me a warm fuzzy.) I mean, was Hitler really that big a deal way, way, way back, 67 years ago? Ancient history, right? The world is more calm, cool, and collected today. No issues. No problems. Let's save the money and treat ourselves to a nice social program.


Proud American
said

Making cuts to our military, that would potentially save lives is disgusting. Our brave troops fly around in retrofitted 30 year old planes flying past their planned flight hours. Our defense should never be a thought when it comes to budget cuts.. I'll drive on potholes while proudly knowing we can save the life of someone putting their life on the line for America!!


geebee
said

An aeronautical FUBAR.


MJ-Medicine Hat
said

Drop the F-35 and get the F-18E Super Hornet. The Hornet and Super Hornet share many design and flight characteristics, including avionics, ejection seats, radar, armament, mission computer software, and maintenance/operating procedures. Australia is buying Super Hornets as a stop-gap until they get 5th gen fighters, let's start buying some now, with an eye to purchasing the Aussie ones once they go on the market.


Leroy_Jethro_Gibbs
said

Hmm, okay. Now what about an alternative? F-18E/F? Eurofighter? Rafale? The RCAF needs fighters as the experience in Libya proved. Whatever they choose, do it fast.


Q
said

and can't take off vertically. Nor can the version of the F-35 that Canada is buying.


Alan
said

There are options. India recently took in bids for 126 planes totalling $12 billion from 2 Euro bidders. The US did not make the cut on the bid list. The problem we have is that we always buy US and as part of that there are offset programs that provide Canadian content. This would be more complicated with a Euro vendor.However if the US continues to flaunt the Buy American maybe we do look to Europe.


Roy
said

Maybe we could buy them from China as everything else we get is made in China anyways and isn't made in China cheaper


Scott (Alberta Party country)
said

Oh ye of little knowledge...in order to prepare for peace, one must prepare for war.


Len
said

And I'll bet Harper will still try to buy them! Libs wasted on submarines and Harper will waste on jets that don't fly.


Smartguy
said

Please, pleeeeeeease be true.We don't need a substantial military force.


JackS in Edmonton
said

OK, you don't buy the jets, planes, ships, trucks, and any other military equipment the militay uses any more, and while you're at it, you should fire all the military personel since the equipment is not there for them to use any ways. Look at the money you could save. Then when our broken down, out dated and over used worn airframe F18 fall out of the sky, the old worn out and broken army trucks die on the side of the road and all the navy ships are stuck in dock because they would sink if put in the water you will be OK with this right?


Brett Lawrie
said

The budget situation in the US is so severe that the Pentagon will have no choice but to slash their budget along with programs such as the F-35 that they just can't afford. With the state of many economies around the world, many western nations face similar problems where their cash strapped governments cannot purchase new aircraft, ships etc. to continue with the modernization of their Forces. China and Russia however are expanding their forces and will one day be able to catch up the US in size, power, technology and strength of it's military. I think it is a safe bet to say that this program will eventually die.


intrepix
said

It was obvious that the US came to realize their debt and can't continue to borrow more, spend more on war or war toys. The Canadian government has gone all in with this and there is going to be a big unproductive expense if the US pulls the plug on their development of the F-35 jet.Seems as though little consideration has been given to drones, advanced missile and high tech war toys which could render these jets redundant before they get off the assembly line. Canada should be giving more thought on the purchase of arms as the British subs were another major expense with redundancy written all over them.


Good Riddance
said

That plane cannot be used in the arctic anyways. Terrible choice for Canada's needs. Great choice if other countries want us to tag along on their aircraft carriers but utterly useless for our country and purposes.


Jonny
said

I'm OK with delaying our fighter upgrade, given the economy, etc. Our CF-18's were just upgraded, and we have the best pilots in the world (my opinion). We proved how good we can perform in Libya. The only countries who have better planes than us are our allies. Let's take a look at this again when the economy recovers. We will be OK.


Joe Canadian
said

What all you peacenik anti-American dorks cannot seem to grasp is that China is happily building their 5th genertation planes and upgrading their Navy. Now, genuisies, look at a map and tell me they won't go after the oil reserves in the SE Seas in the region. That they may just decide Taiwan doesn't need to be independent any more. All you can do is gloat about the U.S. without thinking about who they have been keeping at bay - morons. Oh, well, we still have nukes and they are cheap - is that what you want???


Vince
said

Euro fighters aren't stealth and can't take off vertically. No go. I AM for canceling the jets to show Obama what he gets for delaying the pipeline.


PEI Fella
said

Is this the end of the Superpower?


Dave
said

Why can't Canada buy planes and weapons from the US at discount prices? If we don't buy them another country will.


John Macdonald
said

Hopefully they will cut the jet program - with the 20 to 30 BILLION that Canada would save by not buying these planes, Harper and Clement could build about a dozen gazebos in Huntsville.


Peace Out
said

Sounds a lot like the Soviet Union after they pulled out of Afganistan. Maybe one day the USA will wake up and realize they can only afford peace and not intervention into every country on the globe that they don't agree with.


R.Biss
said

Let it go, and sign up for the Euro fighter,better plane anyway.


Good for the global economy
said

U.S. militarism has brought the world to the brink of economic collapse. This inevitability was initiated under Ronald Ray Gun with unprecedented military expenditures. What we are witnessing today is the collapse of the Soviet Union, American Style. A decade of war has bankrupted America and the GOP just doesn't get it. Until the American economy recovers, the global economic outlook will be bleak but this is a good first step. Canada doesn't need really expensive military junk anyway. Good riddance.


Share with your social Network:

Facebook DIGG Newsvine Delicious Twitter StumbeUpon Reddit Yahoo! Buzz

 

Advertisement

Contest

Today's World Stories

Former Liberian President Charles Taylor waits for the start of his sentencing judgement in the courtroom of the Special Court for Sierra Leone in Leidschendam, near The Hague, Netherlands, Wednesday May 30, 2012.  (AP / Toussaint Kluiters)

Charles Taylor gets 50 years for 'brutal' crimes

More   5 Comments 5    2 Video(s) 2

This frame grab made from an amateur video provided by Syrian activists on Monday, May 28, 2012, purports to show the massacre in Houla on May 25 that killed more than 100 people, many of them children. (AP / Amateur Video via AP video)

UN observers in Syria discover 13 bound corpses

More