Tories, Liberals clash over long-form census

The normally quiet process of tallying the census is now the subject of a political showdown. The government's decision to drop the mandatory long-form census has the Liberals and Conservatives looking to resolve their differences.

CTV News Channel: Dr. Paul Hebert, CMAJ

The editor-in-chief of the Canadian Medical Association Journal says the cutting of the long-form census will force health care administrators to design policy with virtually no information.

CTV News Channel: Linda Kislowicz, UIAFC

The executive vice president the UIAFC reacts to the federal decision to replace next year's mandatory long census with a voluntary questionnaire stemmed from recommendations made to him by Statistics Canada.

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Liberal MP Marc Garneau holds up a list of individuals and organizations opposed to cuts to the long form census during a press conference in Ottawa, Wednesday July 14, 2010. (Adrian Wyld / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

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They're getting rid of the long form census to make way for the microchips they're planning on installing in all of our heads. The floride in the water makes it easier to transmit the info to command central. Good thing I stocked up on aluminum foil while everyone else was lulled into a false sense of security. (In case you didn't catch it, I'm being sarcastic)

neilpk70

Tories, Liberals clash over long-form census

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Tories, Liberals clash over long-form census

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CTV.ca News Staff

Date: Sun. Jul. 18 2010 7:48 PM ET

A decision to scrap the mandatory long-form census has sparked a backlash from groups who say it provides crucial information, and now Liberals and Conservatives are calling for emergency meetings to discuss the issue.

Twenty per cent of the population is given the long-form census. For 2011, Conservatives say Canadians will no longer be required by law to answer the questions.

"The opposition will have to explain to Canadians why they want the state and the government of Canada to know lots of details from their private lives. They will have to answer that question," Conservative MP Maxime Bernier told The Canadian Press.

He said that when he was industry minister in 2006, when the last survey was taken, his office received about 1,000 email complaints a day.

However, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner has only received three complaints about the long-form census in the past decade.

Municipal governments, economists and medical researchers are just some of the groups calling on the Conservatives to change their position. They say information obtained from the long census is crucial to help make policy decisions, and understand the changing face of Canada.

The current industry minister, Tony Clement, has acknowledged the census decision was made by cabinet without broad public consultation.

Liberal industry critic Marc Garneau said the government should have focused their efforts on explaining how census information is strictly confidential.

"They're taking this really stupid approach, and making a really stupid decision as well," he told The Canadian Press. "This really is saying we're going to dumb down this country because we don't want to intrude into the lives of people."

Bernier said that if groups want access to information normally found on the long-form census, they will have to conduct the polling themselves.

"If some special interest group wants data on Canadians, they can do that, they can pay for that and they can do it," said Bernier.

"But we're not there to please special interest groups. We're there for the silent majority of Canadians. And I'm sure that the big majority of Canadians understand that and they will agree with our decision."

With files from The Canadian Press

Comments are now closed for this story

Taxed and Tired
said

Long or short, I think there should only be 4 answers allowed for residency status. Canadian Citizen, Landed Immigrant, Refugee or Other. I think that asking people to divide themselves into ethnic groups only promotes racism, not multiculturism as the governments would have us believe. Immigration Canada can get the stats on who came here from where. MPAC and such can give information on housing types and Revenue Canada can provide household numbers and income.If special interest groups want that information, they can pay for it themselves. Enough of my money goes to taxes as it is.

Stephen
said

Listen carefully: "there is no privacy issue". It's no about some who feel their privacy intruded upon, because "there is no privacy issue". Which means, if one connects the dots, that the Tory explanations are nothing other than self-serving spin, and an attempt to make certain segments of the population believe there is a "privacy issue". What? These outraged people don't pay taxes?? Well, then they are handing over far more information to the Government than filling out the census. Nothing but partisan, ideologically-based electioneering.Please, someone, provide REAL OPPOSITION and CHOICE to these people before it's too late. That means either Liberals, get your act together and stop sticking your finger in the wind, and Jack Layton, figure out who the real target is and don't try to build up the NDP at the expense of the country.

Havelock Heavy
said

I this crucial information for proper planning of public services. I don't mind filling one out if asked, and apparently all but 3 past complainers agree. Mr. Harper, stop making a political issue of mundane things such as this and get on with it.

James
said

Some of the questions deal with how long it takes to get to work, by what mode of transport, and how far you need to travel. According to the Cons, those are just some of the useless and invasive questions. If those questions aren't there, then how does Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Regina, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Halifax, or any other large city, plan its roads and public transit?

Justice or All
said

There is nothing on the long form that anybody could not find out anyway. Give me a break. There are no privacy issues here. There is the crucial issue of what will be needed in the country in terms of education, health care, recreational facilities, infrastructure etc......... Another case of the Conservatives making an issue of something that is not. To make these changes is very narrow and simple minded, and sadly says a lot about what the Conservatives think about their constituents. It certainly doesn't make the Conservative cabinet look too bright either, when they think the greater number of optional forms will be in any way statistically valid. More smoke and mirrors, brought to you by Stephen Harper and his band of great pretenders.

John Groenewegen
said

Send Marc Garneau back into space where he belongs with the rest of the Liberals elites . liberals _ communists in sheeps clothing

Tim
said

The Liberals use the long form survey in order to target certain ethnic groups and the areas where they live. Thus the repeat whining coming from them again and again about anything. The long form survey is not good for Canadians, but is good for the Liberals. Anyone who doesn't believe that, I have a bridge for you to buy.

Allan Eizinas
said

How about a compromise? Keep the long form mandatory but include a $10 voucher (or tax credit) that the randomly chosen recipient can cash in to make up for the �lost� time? Be a lot cheaper than the $millions spent on new and useless forms.

David
said

The poor Liberals keep chasing the tail of the Conservative Party around. We have asked the Tories to govern in the interest of Canadian's and I must say even with a minority they have done well. We may not all agree with everything they put forword but at least their pro-active.

dcg
said

I agree on the conservatives on this

PAUL W KINCAID
said

It is about time government minded their own business. Government and corporations have no business infringing on our private lives. Do corporations allow anyone who walks off of the street to see their books or know who and where they buy their products and services from? Not a chance, so why should they be allowed to come into our live and demand that we answer all their for profit questionnaires. It is about time the Tories did something that all Canadians wanted for decades. Too bad for corporate Canada. If you really look at who wants the census you will no doubt find that it is US owned and operated businesses who want this information.

A. Phillips
said

The Conservatives have my support on this one. A Census should not be mandatory with monetary and jail penalties should you fail to complete it. The only "stupid" thing Mr. Garneau, is your party's adamant support for special interest groups and an invasion into our privacy!

Al
said

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.Fundamental FreedomsFundamental freedoms2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:(a) freedom of conscience and religion;(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and(d) freedom of association.It does not say we spill our guts at the end of a gun. The PM and the party are absolutely right on this one.

Don from BC
said

The government is too nosy. Its none of their business about my income etc. Its all about big brother controlling Canadians. Good for the Conservatives. Its about time someone in government made a good decisions, instead of all those stupid Liberal ideas. Why do you think we have so many people on welfare? All about their idea about individual rights, instead of the rights of Canadians as a whole. Liberals!! Remember the gun register? They were told it wouldn't work, but they bowed down to the special interest groups as usual.

don
said

I had the long one last time and complained to the government that it was an invasion of my privacy.How do they know people tell them the truth on those forms?

Mary
said

The only data that will come from Harper's voluntary census, is the number of people that like to fill out census.

average guy
said

This is another example of the conservatives making a policy decision without a clue as to the implications on the country. This reinforces my view that they are uneducated rednecks running the country.

Mr. Pulley
said

Each year I fill out an intrusive form where I tell the government my sources of income and also hand them large sums of money. Few months later I get audited, got to court and pay them even more money. THAT'S INTRUSIVE!

James T.
said

The long form census is a war crime perpetrated against the people by their own government during peacetime. Until it's done away with once and for all, none of us will be truly free...

Dan Laurin Windsor
said

The new form of the census will cost more money as it will be sent to many more households. The Long form Census helps various levels of government properly budget for all programs.I am not sure with 3 complaints in 20 years that the census is too invasive why the Harpercrites chose to amend it. Mayb Tony Clement received one last year or Steven Harper and did not want to share their income data.

M. Harris
said

It's curious that Stephen Harper is so disinterested in the information collected in the census ... perhaps, he's not that motivated to help Canadians, after all.

Steve
said

Really, now, compared to what people need to do to make ends meet nowadays, how the heck is filling out the long form such an effort? I found myself filling out the long form once a few years ago, and yes, it was a pain in the arse, but I also knew its purpose. I also knew that my name and address were not going to be used, just the demographic data contained on the form. And, I also knew that my privacy would still be at the same level as it is with filing my tax return--and we do that every year. Making it voluntary is just plain stupid. Voting in an election is voluntary, and we see all too clearly the kind of government we get when too many people 'volunteering' to sit it out, no?

Kyle
said

I have to agree with the Conservatives on this issue.

Wendy
said

According to the Minister, less information leads to better decisions. According to the Minister, privacy concerns and a handful of complaints should be addressed. I'm waiting for that logic to apply to my income taxes. According to the Minister, farmers need to fill out the long form so the government knows how to help them. How are they proposing to help fulfill the wants and needs of the rest of us? (before anyone accuses me of wanting a nanny state, I am referring to roads, schools, hospitals and everything else I pay for with my tax dollars) Of course the Minister wouldn't want the statistics to show anything negative and the best way to do that is to not have any statistics at all.

Stu from London
said

If anything, this just goes to show that Canadians do not know how to complain properly. Why would you go directly to your MP about this? They only tow the Party line. I believe the majority of Canadians do not find filling out a census to be an issue. Have their been any situations where the personal information got out? Was anyone seriously burdened by that? Other than laziness and unwarranted Conservative fear of government, their should be no changes. I'm glad the Conservatives are opening up debate on this issue. It should be interesting to hear their argument. Hopefully they have some numbers to present the public to show why they want to change things. I have a feeling they really have no argument, other than a handful of people that received a justly issued fine.

dean abercrombie clarksburg ont.
said

there is only general information to be used to make reasonable public decisions for the benefit of all, get that all!! canadians. i am concerned about my human rights as much or more than most CANADIANS BUT GETTING RID of the long form is just some sort of werid policy of showing the world that canadians are falling for a policy of simple mindedness stupidity.

Spence in Ontario
said

Scrapping the long form census is a really dumb idea. You just don't get as accurate data from a voluntary survey as you do from the long form and the census information is vital to so many different things be it business, minority groups, running gov't programs and much more. It is simply inexcusable to ignore the facts on this one. From what I've heard there have not been a lot of major complaints about the long form census either so the conservatives don't have a case in that area.

ZOMGPoliticalBlogMustTroll
said

It's clear that the posters on here have no actual grasp of what the census is used for. That or they are so blinded by the selfish ignorance that they believe that the 1 hour they take out of their lives every 5-10 years to fill this out is better spent sitting in front of the boob tube. Lets be honest, that is what this is actually about, you guys being too lazy to actually fill it out. Your privacy concerns were spoon fed to you by CPC talking points.

wjohn
said

Finally some common sense, if the special interest groups want their stats..they gather them on their own dime. Sick and Tired of being sick and tired of special interest groups. Go pay for your own survey stop using my tax dollars.

Keith in Brampton
said

@ Bill in BC: If you've filled out the long form 5 times, you're either incredibly old or StatsCan is sending it to the same 20% of BC residents over and over. As for the furor - if the form is too invasive, then the government should have struck a parliamentry committee and taken the time to closely review the form and eliminate those questions of least value &/or geatest objection - NOT render it statistically useless by making it voluntary. Their approach can be attributed to only one of two things: putting ideology first; or acting without thinking. Wait - maybe it can be attributed to A COMBINATION of these...

Fred
said

@Bill in BC
Part of Statscan's mandate is to collect the census... read the stats act...

"Now, the government has acted well in advance of the 2011, and will not change its mind, Bernier added."

WELL IN ADVANCE!?!? They have given Statscan less than 10 months (census day is in May 2011) to stop with their planning for the collection, processing and dissemination of the long form (planning that started even before the 2006 census) and to develop and implement a voluntary survey using a completely different methodology from the regular mandatory short form census. Good luck statscan, the cons have really put you in an unfair situation.

Mike Foehr
said

I am glad this long census is abolished!!! I was really worried we poor ontarians would have to pay an Ecofee courtesy of Ontario Liberal clowns...namely Royal Dalton!! On the other hand if census data includes what laundry detergent you use then I could have let stas can know that one dollar bleach cost $0.37 in Ecofee...I guess it won't happen...C'est domage!!!!

Paul Tonita
said

It would be nice to hear them just one time acknowledge the bias they are putting in our census data. They can't possibly be unaware, for two weeks this point has been hammered. Just the same, if you survey the population about obesity, those who are obese will be far less willing to volunteer such information. It might seem like we're the fittest nation in the world, and have no need to address the concerns of a country growing larger year by year around the waist.

T
said

I honestly am disgusted by some of the ridiculous comments on here. Regardless of which party you support, do you really need to leave mindless garble making fun of other people. I for one do not really care which party you support. Your comments are pointless, tasteless and offensive... Instead of complaining, why not get more involved instead of just leaving anonymous comments on here... Pathetic.

Dave in Surrey
said

I filled out the long form in 2006, didn't have any issues with doing so or find it intrusive... Basically i seen it as my civic duty to help the government understand the people they govern in wider grasp then they get from polling #'s or from their own ideology... What question from the long form do people find so intrusive? # of bedrooms? I'd bet you would tell a perfect stranger that at a grocery store if they chatted you up a bit... I'm sure Bernier will be able to supply us with the 1000 emails per day as proof as well... Other than that, why not keep it the same as it is, but add one question to the 2011 census: Did you find this form intrusive? Then we shall know for sure what Canadians actually think...

Sue
said

The opposition will have to explain to Canadians why they want the state and the government of Canada to know lots of details from their private lives. The conservative said they do a poor job of keeping our information private. The most important information I have is my financial info, so it would make more sense to make income tax voluntary. I sure wouldn't pay it the way this government throws away money.

Cam
said

This is all the conservatives have to offer Canadians is skewed and unreliable data, Harper treats Canadians like mushrooms, he keeps us in the dark & feeds us BS. Harper's new police state will have no use for this data, He'll dictate to us what he thinks we need.

JRE
said

To Liberal MP Marc Garneau, yes there is a very clear ideological choice. You have Liberals who want to intrude into your private life and force you via violence to give up personal information versus a Conservative Party who does not.It is a very very clear choice and an easy one to make.

Chris Redfield
said

The Government has been doing census readings for decades, why get rid of a valuable tool now? Have any of you conservative sheep actually read the census long form or are you just repeating senseless conservative gibberish?

Catwoman 38
said

Are they going to call for a independent inquiry into the G20 events too?They should because more and more people are asking for one.

neilpk70
said

mooky
said

Actually, CraigW, they are paying MORE money to make a voluntary survey.

viral venus
said

I filled in the long form one time and the only information I was reticent about was the requirement for our full names. I did not consider this information that would be helpful to policy makers and did not fill it in. I did receive a rather heavy handed phone call saying that there was a potential for prosecution if I did not complete the survey ie I had to give them our names or at the very least I would be fined. Even given that experience, I would be OK with a change that simply removed the name requirement since a wide variety of experts say the other information gathered on the long form is essential and I agree and had no problem with them asking about those other things that help to give depth to the census data. Why does anyone believe that self-serving, politcally driven MPs have more of our best interests at heart than their own experts? I don't...there is always politcal motive to their actions and it does not ususally benefit anyone but themselves. Keep the long form mandatory, remove name data, and lighten up a bit if someone is reluctant to cooperate.

Bob,Calgary
said

The Liberals are so foolish that they will jump on any bandwagon if they have the smallest inkling that they can cause a fuss about an issue. The Conservative stance is bang on and explains why I will always vote Conservative. The Liberals and their fellow Lefties believe that the government has a right and indeed a duty to interfere in every aspect of our lives. The left actually believe that they know better than the "common" man and woman how we should run our lives. The long form census is a nosy interference in our lives to garner information that big brother can use to push us around and tell us what to do. The Tea Party movement in the U.S. is a reaction to this philosophy that the intelligensia are so much smarter than we are. If Obama and his gang have their way their will be only one business in the U.S. , the goverment. The Liberals and NDP are cut from the same cloth and I believe we Canadians should form a Timbits Party to tell the federal goverment to get the HE-- out of our lives.

James Blake
said

If it's an anonymous census submission, how is it an invasion of privacy? This issue is an example of social ideology trumping scientific data collection. The Conservatives like forcing complex issues into simple black and white. This decision does not bear the scrutiny of the scientific method, common sense or the smell test.

Charles
said

Jury duty is far more intrusive than a 1 hour census form, why not axe that too? Same logic applies for:TaxesBirth CertificatesMarriage CertificatesDeath CertificatesWhy does the government need to know if I'm born, married, or dead?This is the most absurd thing the conservatives have ever done - and Iggy the timid is still too aloof to say anything about it.

Niagara George
said

As is normally the case with things this government does,.. They are sending out fewer long forms and making it optional, to save money and to try for a few more votes. If Tony Clement has any knowledge of the science behind census and surveys, he knows full well that making this optional makes the results close to useless information. Businesses and all levels of government depend on census information for major decisions constantly. For all their talk about the economy and helping business, these neoCons really don't care about anyone except their own thirst to stay in power. As usual, they are counting on Canadians not understanding the full ramifications of their decision and instead only looking at the small immediate benefit for the person who can now throw the censis in the recycle bin, instead of investing an hour or two into contributing to the development of society.

Tim from Hamilton
said

Harper & Co.'s favourite tactic when they get in trouble is to generate a false scandal to distract the media (and apparently it's getting easier and easier to do that !! )

Dr. M
said

Actually, rather than being an "invasive intrusion into people's lives", the census data that is gathered by the long form is crucial to planning for municipalities, provinces, school boards and many businesses. This is according to Doug Norris, director general of social and demographic statistics at Statistics Canada until 2005 and now chief demographer and senior vice-president with Environics Analytics. Norris and many other statisticians point out that this data is used by many agencies to make decisions that affect the lives of most Canadians. It is the most efficient and reliable method of collecting needed information. It would appear that the real agenda of the Torries is to undermine tha ability of governments to implement needed social programs, which rely upon this information for a rational, information-based approach to public planning. Like the Republicans in the States, the hidden agenda seems to be to make government unworkable, then claim that government doesn't work and ought to be downsized. Before buying into this line of reasoning, Canadians might well ask themselves if they want municipalities, for example, to have the information needed to build roads and bridges where they are needed, whether school boards ought to be able to hire teachers based on demographic data regarding school populations, and whether businesses ought to know where to place stores given consumer needs. Frothing at the mouth about "big government intrusion" does little to address some serious, adult-level issues. Instead, try actually finding out how this data is being used, and why it is so crucial to delivering government programs in a rational manner. In the States, the recent push to ignore the census has resulted in millions of people not being able to receive government assistance and programs which they desperately need. Is this a good idea?

Reece
said

@Prof Pye Chart - - " Harper and his government will get to make their sensible case formally and properly, and then enjoy standing back and listening to Iggy and his banana-peel-slipping red monkeys contradict their own ideological and partisan principles by arguing in favor of the forced disclosure of specific "personal" information that can be garnered for determined purposes by private enterprise under simple survey agreement." - - - wow, forget about forging a legacy one could be proud of. I remember the good times under Jean Chret�en when so much was accomplished not to mention budget surpluses year after year. Now all we have looking forward to are "red monkeys contradicting each other.' - yeah, I feel good! You feel good too, Professor?

Mark, Ottawa
said

The long form used previously might be invasive, but a voluntary long form would be useless and a waste of money. Altering the long form so that it less intrusive would be a better solution.

CraigW
said

I am guessing the main reason to axe the long survey is to save money. Fortunately we have this inquiry to use up the surplus created by the change.

Greg in the Hammer
said

The census is only a privacy issue if Bernier leaves it at his girlfriend's apartment.

BB
said

If I don't have to tell Statscan how many bedrooms I have, then I definately don't have to tell McGuinty"s MPAC assoictation how many bathrooms I have. At least with Stats I know the info is confidential (Stats employees can go to Jail if they reveal anything). With Ontario"s MPAC, the info is not confidential.Make providing information to MPAC voluntary too! It is more private and they don't keep it confidential!!

Prof. Pye Chartt
said

Good political move by the Conservatives. Instead of allowing Ignatieff and his Liberal gang of parliamentary Keystone Cops to chase the issue around for the sake of shallow media attention (which is all this sorry batch of Opposers is capable of), PM Harper and his government will get to make their sensible case formally and properly, and then enjoy standing back and listening to Iggy and his banana-peel-slipping red monkeys contradict their own ideological and partisan principles by arguing in favor of the forced disclosure of specific "personal" information that can be garnered for determined purposes by private enterprise under simple survey agreement. Convincing Canadians that certain census "data" is of genuine critical importance to our national development will be an amusing task. The Liberals will either run and hide, or, hang themselves with their own greasy rope. ...Thumbs up.

Bill in BC
said

The national census was NEVER intended to be such an ordeal. It was meant to be a simple census of population and basic regional demographics. Refusal to complete the census is a summary offence and the long form IS too invasive (I'know, I've had to fill it out 5 times!) Who cares what brand of detergent you buy, how many lights you use in your dining room, or if you cut your lawn once a week or every two weeks. StatsCan should stick to its mandate, not being busybodies.

Sandy NS
said

I think the long census form is an invasion of privacy.I agree with th Conservatives on this.

Alex
said

Why is it that they can get rid of this without it being voted on. The government should vote on stuff like this.

RSSA in Edm.
said

Yes, that's the way to do it: "We'll have another circus to entertain the media". Bring in the Circus Party Clowns that regularly attend.The CPC make a mockery of committees and now they want one to justify their actions by calling one. What a waste of time and money.Where are the ones to justify the changes to copyright, omnibus budget etc.

Bill from Winnipeg
said

What?No Liberal or NDP posters on here railing about this.Turn about is fair play I guess........