Top Stories -   

1
Public Safety Minister Vic Toews (left)and Justice Minister Rob Nicholson take part in a news conference to announce measures protecting children from internet predators, in Ottawa, Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS) British Columbia blogger Christopher Parsons appears on CTV's Power Play on Wednesday, Feb. 22, 2012.

Canadians will likely pay for online surveillance bill

Viewer

CTV News Video

Power Play: The impact of Bill C-30
Tom Copeland with the Canadian Association of Internet Providers discusses how much money he is expecting to shell out to install wiretaps, and whether the price of Internet for users will go up.
Power Play: The cost of online surveillance
Christopher Parson, an Internet blogger, explains how expensive implementing online surveillance has been in other countries.

A A |  Email ThisEmail  | PrintComments (49) Facebook   

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews (left)and Justice Minister Rob Nicholson take part in a news conference to announce measures protecting children from internet predators, in Ottawa, Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS) British Columbia blogger Christopher Parsons appears on CTV's Power Play on Wednesday, Feb. 22, 2012.

Photos

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews (left)and Justice Minister Rob Nicholson take part in a news conference to announce measures protecting children from internet predators, in Ottawa, Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012. (Fred Chartrand / THE CANADIAN PRESS)

View Larger Image

Date: Wed. Feb. 22 2012 11:29 PM ET

Initial cost estimates to implement the federal government's online surveillance bill run into the tens of millions of dollars, and experts say those costs will be passed on to Canadians by either the government, or the companies forced to upgrade their technology to comply with the legislation's requirements.

Public Safety Canada is estimating it could cost $80 million over four years for Internet Service Providers (ISPs) and Telecommunications Service Providers (TSPs) to acquire the necessary hardware and software to engage in the type of surveillance allowed for in Bill C-30. The legislation is also known as the Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act.

The bill would require TSPs and ISPs to hand over basic information about their clients at the request of law enforcement or spy agencies, including the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), without a warrant. It would also allow that data to be duplicated without proper oversight.

A massive backlash erupted last week after Public Safety Minister Vic Toews unveiled the bill, including a short-lived Twitter account that dispensed salacious details from the public record of Toews's divorce.

Backers of the bill, including the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, say it will make it easier for law enforcement agencies to prevent and solve crimes.

Critics of the bill say it allows agencies access to Canadians' private information without due process.

Tom Copeland, chair of the Canadian Association of Internet Providers, says the initial costs to a small ISP such has himself will run into the tens of thousands of dollars just to acquire the necessary hardware and software.

But he said the costs could easily soar.

"That's part of the quandary we're in right now because we don't know what level of simultaneous intercepts or simultaneous wiretaps we're expected to be able to handle," Copeland told CTV's Power Play Wednesday.

"But at the initial stages we're guessing it's going to be in the tens of thousands of dollars for a small ISP and upwards from there just depending on the volume of intercepts you're supposed to be able to complete."

Copeland said complying with the law "has to be cost neutral for us, otherwise we have no choice but to pass that cost along to our clients."

He says that Canadians will either pay for the bill when their ISP passes on the costs to their customers, or they will pay with their tax dollars.

In a "Myths and Facts" document posted to the Public Safety Canada website, the agency says that equipment already in place when the legislation comes into effect "is only required to maintain existing capability."

However, the agency says the law is written with the understanding it will be "more cost-effective to incorporate intercept capability at the design stage than it is to include it in equipment already in use."

To that end, the law grants an 18-month grace period for companies to get their technology up to speed with the law, and promises "reasonable compensation" to TSPs in "instances where the RCMP or CSIS require them to implement intercept capability that goes over and above the legislative requirements."

It also allows for compensation "for the specialized telecommunications support" they provide police and CSIS in performing interceptions and providing basic subscriber information.

British Columbia blogger Christopher Parsons, an expert in online surveillance bills in other jurisdictions, says the costs of the bill could balloon well beyond initial estimates, and could have more far-reaching implications than the public suspects.

According to Parsons, an online surveillance law enacted in 1994 in the United States was initially projected to cost about $500 million. Ten years later, industry estimates put the price tag at a minimum of between $1.3 billion and $1.7 billion.

He said independent auditors in the U.S. have been unable to pin down the law's exact costs, and he suspects "it's going to be incredibly hard to evaluate what these costs will be for C-30 over the long term."

Parsons also points out that because CSIS is among the agencies that can request information under the bill, the information could end up in the U.S. if Canada signs a cross-border security deal with the United States.

"I think that what we're seeing with this legislation is law enforcement's carrying a lot of water for other parties. This is an intelligence and surveillance bill. So not just the RCMP, OPP and other policing forces, they're not the only ones that get into this, it's also CSIS," Parsons told Power Play.

"And so with a cross border deal, we don't know exactly what's included in that, but we can expect broader cross-border data sharing and that will be between intelligence bodies as well as regular policing agencies."

Comments are now closed for this story

Chris V
said

Good Bye Freedom. Good bye privacy, Good bye legal rights. Welcome to Canada.


Freeman Blaze
said

How many billions will this Long Gun Registry... Ooops I mean Homeland Espionage Agency cost?
Of course the police and CSIS will support this. Call Murdoch he'd probably like to subscribe to the data feeds too.

nazmul ctg
said

Another example of free society. We have to pay to take our freedom and privacy away by big brother. Don't government has more important things to do rather than spying on people. Hope government will hear what people (even their own party members) are saying about this bill and don't loose the chance to be reelected in the next federal election.


coopns
said

So let me get this strait, I have to pay for them to spy on me? How much more is this going to cost me a month from my ISP? $25, $50, $100 or more? Look how much over budget did the anti-democratic long gun registry finally cost. How about those bargain rust bucket subs. Now this draconian legislation being implemented at what cost besides freedom and democracy? If they say $80 Million then you can be sure it will be more like $300 Million. If you want to spy on people pay for it yourself Con Men.


moo
said

it is for control. the bill's main purpose is to control the public. they are coming up with excuses like crime fighting but it will confine us within the government control eventually. if this bill is implemented it will definately be abused.in stead of spending tons of money on this useless ideas, the money can be spent on creating jobs which will decrease crime environment thus reducing crime itself. we have to go to the source to eradicate crimes not just scratching the surface!


Eye opener
said

Another example of so called free country. Even in some undemocratic country government will not bother what you are doing unless you are doing something against them. Here good or bad guy everybody will be watched by the big brother government. It will be more effective if government makes partnership with ISPs to stop child porn. Hope some political party will come with the agenda to scrap it and other laws similar to this (if it becomes law) and win the next federal election.


Jason Daniel Baker, Toronto
said

This government is beginning to seem a lot like the Liberal one it replaced. Gun registry or C-30 - You'll still be paying the government to invade your privacy. What is worse is that the cost for this new legislation will be passed onto consumers when internet providers have to tabulate reports to give to the authorities. Maximum public vitriol exchanged for minimal political gain timed perfectly to run concurrently the Harperites follies on the CPP.


Sailor Girl
said

Our politicians are more afraid of words than guns coming illegally from the US? Pretty disgusting to ask us to foot the bill to pay for ourselves not to have freedom of thought or speech? Bizarre! Conservatives are doing exactly what they said they would not; dividng people, increasing the gap between have and have nots and continuing to fear monger.


Mitch
said

"Give up your liberty in exchange for security, you will lose both and deserve neither"Gotta love our tax dollars at work


Mtich
said

This bill is means to go far beyond criminal investigation. This bill is only a door way to catalogue persons of potential civil unrest. Like any dictatorship that inprisions political prisoners based on information attained. Information as to what forums a person is subscribed to, What are certain people purchasing, who are people speaking to is very valuble information to dame anyone who may disagree with the conduct of the despot. This is really looking like a KGB operation during the Stalin days...I thought only in history would we see such things and now it is right in front of us. To scrap the long gun registry is just an ilusion...that information will never be deleted. First they found out who has a gun and now they want to find out who is most likely to use one. George Orwell saw this comming a long time ago...and we think it is something new?


paula
said

so let's get this right.We are going to be spied on and pay for it too!ARE THEY ALL ON CRACK!!!!


Will
said

Having read the bill for myself, I am not afraid. Knowing our constitution, I am not worried. Having the ability to decide for myself, I am not buying into the hysteria. How I wish there were more people out there who think for themselves instead of letting special interest groups (in this case the nutbars and legal aid/liberties lawyers) tell them what to think.


kojak's cousin, Sarnia
said

So we pay them to watch us? Sure this isn't a Liberal bill? Want to protect children? Then put Graham James in jail for life. What happens if you get re-routed to another site by a pop-up etc to a place you don't want to go? Be listening for sound of sirens and your door being broken down.


Greg
said

Harper's C-30 & crime bill will bankrupt Canada and be of no benefit to Canadians or law enforcement. Criminals will use your IP address & you will be the one going to court to defend yourself. Harper is by far the worst PM Canada has ever had.


Spare Me
said

The useless Long-Gun Registry was a Liberal boondoggle for which beaten Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff and the late NDP leader Jack Layton actually had to WHIP a contingent of their party MPs into opposition of in the face of the Conservatives' initial effort to abolish it. If I were certain folk, I'd leave that dandy "example" alone. Thanks. (P.S. The Opposition approved $1.1B for the G8/G20 summits, and, according to our Auditor General, the Conservatives actually spent $664M. Also, our deficit is being reduced by Harper & Company ahead of schedule. I don't like Bill C-30; however, if it gets shoved down our throats, one could argue that we shouldn't necessarily "expect" the silly cost to balloon like that of the aforementioned dandy "example.")


Jay
said

If the bill gets passed and the infrastructure is built (at our expense), it won't even matter what the courts have to say afterwards because the damage will already be done beyond what most people can fathom. Not only will Canada be back in a financial recession while everyone's rights have been violated, but foreign governments (including the US and who knows who else) along with privately outsourced for-profit monitoring agencies will already have everyone's data backed up in rooms filled with petabyte hard drives stacked floor to ceiling. It'll be like A Scanner Darkly only worse, and the information will never remain secure from "unauthorized eyes" (if such a concept could even still exist by then), as it will inevitably be stolen and abused by hackers and malicious employees working for the various government, law enforcement, and private agencies which will have carte-blanche access to everyone's information without oversight or the need for warrants. This bill stands for everything that is undemocratic and spits in the face of every person who died for the freedoms and liberties in the Charter. The glass is only partly full if this bill backfires in Harper's face and allows us to catch him then hold him accountable for the crimes he's committed. Let's be honest, several members of the Harper government don't seem intelligent enough not to leave some digital paper-trail or another of their illegal wrongdoings and back-room negotiations. Then again, who knows. Within a few more years there may not be a Canada anymore. We might get assimilated into the US "for the children & for our own good", and then he'll never have to worry about losing the next would-be election! He said we wouldn't recognize Canada within a few more years and perhaps that's exactly what he meant.


Senior taxpayer
said

From the media comments I gather this strong stable conservative majority government has lost the respect of the majority of canadians. I have never witnessed so much lack of respect for a PM and this is not even one year in power. Unfortunately we have to wait 4 years., so we will have to depend on the NDP and Liberals to hold these reform conservatives accountable. Best of luck.


Netsurfer
said

Only those that are hiding something are those that are whining.


Me in the 'burbs
said

Wow... This is what happens when you elect a Conservative majority folks. I thought Harper said he was all about small responsible gov't. I guess this proves he's just a fraud.I sense a revolution coming in this country. this will make the Arab Spring look like a family picnic in the park.


Guelph Observer
said

So Big Brother is going to watch me and make me pay for the 'privilege' of being watched - have I got that right? Forget it, no way. Mr. Harper and his Conservative Reform Alliance Party (CRAP) are really out to get us.


paula
said

Politicians and their henchmen thought the Internet was great until it started going against them and biting them in backside.Now that we are all talking online the people are finding and agreeing we are being stolen from starting at the top of the political and crown corporation ladder.Cartel of thieves is all they are and hiding under the guise of being leaders of the country. They are nothing if not comical.It's made the boys a tad edgy that they are going to get caught in their lies and immoral ethics or in Mr. Toews with his pants down literally.One down...Mr.Toews...many to go


Ken
said

Send a message to your internet service provider a message if this happens ... mass cancellation of service.


TJP
said

So not only will this bill infringe on our freedoms, privacy and confidentiality it will also cost billions to implement. It will also cost trillions to filter "suspicious" data. Sure we can afford the cost, especially when considering that we are paying down our national dept (note of extreme sarcasm).This is not advertisement or spam but I thought it may be useful for those of you interested in signing a petition against this bill.Go to: http://stopspying.ca/


Mark in Wpg
said

@Bruce: Are you positive you want to leave your privacy in the hands of the courts? People have rightly lost faith in their public servants and are speaking out against this Orwellian waste of time and money. The fact that the Cons are so technologically inept that they can't see that this bill is incapable of actually slowing down the people it's intended to target is a whole different matter.


Mike
said

I agree with Michael. That's the first thing I thought of too... we're just replacing one money pit of a gun registry with this money pit of bs. Sure, call it "protecting the children blah blah blah", but we all know there's a lot more monitoring going be happening than they let on.Say goodbye to p2p file-sharing.


Sam C
said

@Trevor... just which rights are being denied?2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (a) freedom of conscience and religion; (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and(d) freedom of association. The Charter says nothing about the right/freedom to remain anonymous.


MT
said

Stephen Harper wants a police state where civil liberty means nothing. Is he from Russia? Told you we shouldn't have voted for him and his hidden agenda.


Niagara George
said

$20 million is about $1 for each internet user in the country. I hope no one believes that will cover the costs involved with this draconian bill. Some of you thing the gun Registry cost too much. This will be far more expensive. Get your cheque book out.


true north
said

Another Gun Registry under another name- a waste of money and an insult to the citizens of Canada, but no on ever said there was anything progressive in this Conservative government.


Gilbert Hobart
said

The ridiculous costs of this bill are only a fraction of what is wrong with it. This is a bill just waiting to be abused by the police. Stop this nonsense. You have no right to my personal information. Don't just amend this bill, trash it and never come back to it.


true canadian
said

This is asinine! I will NOT pay for them to put a rope around my neck because they are scared of the internet


Len
said

At a time when services are being cut, when governments are trying to save money and are promising not to raise taxes, it appears that this bill will be like a tax increase. If the government pays for it what about those who do not own wireless devices? If the companies pay, the government is forcing us to pay them more. Wireless rates are exhorbitant already in Canada. And this, for a bill, that the vast majority of citizens are opposed to. Another CON job by out government.


Michael
said

So we ditch the gun registry, but introduce this abomination? Not good enough Conservatives. This bill needs to go away.


Island Man
said

Harper exchanges the gun registry program which impacted a few people with this Internet surveillance Program which takes the rights away from everyone...what is Harper and his Reform Gang doing to Canada?


It in the winds
said

People are you missing the big picture.... once this law is pushed through under the disguise of protecting children the government will then release the Digital Copyright Law which will involve fines and the criminalizing of downloading. After all, once the privacy is stripped away, it's only a matter of time before they implement ways to profit from it.


Bruce, Verdun
said

I do not know why everone is in such an uproar. The first time eveidence collected under this law goes before a judge, he/she will throw right back in the police/crown's face. This is completely unconstitutional and will not survive a judicial review. Besides as will all legislation like this, it is merely political. They passed tougher drunk driving laws, not being enforced. They passed cell phone bans while driving, not being enforced. They passed tougher drug possession laws, not being enforced. Besides they've probably being spying on all of us for years, just decided to try and make it legal for them to do it.


Alain
said

Scrap the arms registry because some farmers and cowboys did not want to be under surveilance, and now they want to play Big Brother with Canadians... Stephen knows that if he wants to keep power he needs means to destroy who ever is against him. This will fireback on all canadians, where is the charter of rights??? They are going to open a pandora's box that everybody will be regret.All this sounds as east Germany in the cold war era..


Rod
said

The Liberal's gave us the Gun Regestry that took how many yr's to piss away 2 billion dollars ?? and this is now dumped on what is an essentially country of tax payer's that for the most part flat broke ???


Trevor Boller
said

Canada: Do you really not care about your Charter of Rights and Freedom?


Steve in Manotick
said

In a time of cut back why is the governement going to wastse millions on thie bill only the government wants? Shame on the where is the logic they will use this bill to shut down free speach and spy on on us we as Canadians shouldn't be foreced to pay for this!! I'll let you all know when the RCMP come to visit me..


Robin
said

Of course we will all pay for a bill that no one wants.


Mike
said

Well, if this bill goes through I am cancelling my internet. I will NOT have someone constantlylooking over my shoulder. Will the ones being spied on be advised that their democratic rights have been trampled on? A sad time for freedom indeed.


Tim
said

Awesome! Not only can the government (and anyone the minister deems worthy of the information) keep tabs on our information... for the children, but we get to pay for them to do it. I just keep liking C-30 even more the more I hear about it.


Ray from T Bay
said

and you thought the gun registry was expensive this gives the goverment the power to become a non demorcrat state yes we are almost under a dictatorship by Mr Harper and his disciples


How Ridiculous!
said

Are you kidding me? We will have to be millions to implement this stupid act that no self respecting Canadians want? Toews is really going mad. Lock him up, quick!


peter in mb
said

Backers of the bill, including the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, say it will make it easier for law enforcement agencies to prevent and solve crimes. That is what they said about bill C-68 the long gun registry that proved to be useless waste of money. I hope the conservative will think bill C-30 though more carefully then the liberals did with C-68. By making it target the right people ‘the criminals’ not the law abiding citizens.


KevinHamilton
said

Great, so we have to pay them to watch us in our private lives... The Conservatives are for big government and this Bill is proof! So much for Liberty and Freedom, eh Con Bots?


L
said

I would rather have one more F35 fighter in the event the Middle East goes into complete chaos, rather than a bill which clearly violates the rights of Canadians. Do an online poll and ask Canadians if they want the bill. And stop making us all scared of people out there - it's getting annoying.


James
said

How much did the gun regestry initially cost? One day we'll see a Conservative that isn't a bald faced hypocrite and the country will collectively die of shock.


Share with your social Network:

Facebook DIGG Newsvine Delicious Twitter StumbeUpon Reddit Yahoo! Buzz

 

Advertisement

Contest

Today's Top Stories

Labour Minister Lisa Raitt appears on CTV's Power Play on Monday, May 28, 2012.

Federal government orders end to CP Rail strike

More   51 Comments 51    12 Video(s) 12

Air Canada says it appears an engine part fell from the plane and crashed into the windshield of a car in Mississauga, Ont. on Monday, May 28, 2012.

Air Canada plane makes emergency landing in Toronto

More

Dominic and Abby Maryk were found in Mexico four years after allegedly being abducted by their father.

Extradition sought in Winnipeg missing children case

More   4 Comments 4    4 Video(s) 4